Hello and welcome to It All Adds Up the podcast where we chat about money, how to get it, how to spend it and how to invest it. I'm senior economics writer Jess Irvine.
And I'm money editor Dom Powell. And today we're talking about the great world of side hustles.
It makes me tired just thinking about it. I see.
Well, exactly. We already do enough work, you know, real hustling. Who's who has time for hustling any? Well, apparently a lot of people, they're very popular things to do. You see a lot of people these days with a little side hobbies and other little ways to to earn a bit of money on the side. Yes. If you ever had a side hustle, something you'd categorize as a side hustle.
Yeah, I have had many I'm excited about this topic because just the idea that you can make money in your spare time only recently occurred to me and in ways that you wouldn't necessarily I haven't set up an online business or anything, but in terms of selling stuff on Facebook Marketplace, renting out my car space, I've done a few of those things. I made about 300 bucks a month, I think, by renting out my car space, just pretty good street instead, you know, and I'm not
particularly I'm not in the CBD or anything. I just thought, Oh, that's easy. Money doesn't matter to me if I park on the street. Hmm. Yeah. What about you, dummy? You're a hustler.
Look, I think, like, if I'd thought about it, like, I wouldn't categorize myself as, like, someone with the side hustle. But, like, in the past, I've definitely done little things, like, beside that, that have. That have saved. They have made me money. Like, this is like super nerdy, which is like, really made us like, baring all. But I used to be really into playing like trading card games, Like you go and
Magic The Gathering. I still play them a bit these days, but I used to like buy and sell like trading cards. I'd like speculate on them, like I'd buy them at like, you know, $0.50 and be like, Oh, they've gone out to a dollar and I'd sell them for like a dollar and all that sort of stuff. If it was, it was fun.
Wow. I've never even heard of those. Yes.
Yeah, It was like I didn't make like, I probably made like maybe, you know, a couple hundred bucks a month, like, I wasn't doing big bucks or anything like that. But this is back when I was like 17 or something like that. But yeah, I've had some I've had some side hustles.
I guess that's really cool. And if it aligns with, you know, your personal interests and you enjoy it, I think that's yeah, I think that's perfect. Exactly. My, my real big thing, which sort of bordered on an addiction, was when I discovered Facebook Marketplace a couple of years ago. And I just it just blew my mind that you
could connect with potential buyers. Like I could just post anything and I'm a seller and you just, you know, if you can navigate the wild world of is this still available, which is the message you get through Facebook marketplace, you know, if you need to connect with anyone as a as a buyer and seller and you know and you meet some wild and wonderful people that I was like, I can I can sell anything. And yeah, you know,
we'll get to some of the things I've sold. But like I sold, I went on holidays to the Highlands and I found some really big pine cones that had fallen from a tree and there was heaps of them and I took about eight of them home and then I found a wicker basket on the side of the road. It was in good condition and I sort of styled it, you know, these pine cones in this lovely wicker basket, and I sold them for 45 bucks.
That's so there you go. That's, that's an entrepreneur and mindset.
The crazy money bit of arbitrage.
I think before we get into the whole thing, I'm going to get on my soapbox for a bit. And some would say that a podcast is a soapbox anyway, so I'm getting on a soapbox. So then a soapbox, but.
I'm not going to interrupt you. Go for it.
Is that I do have like I have like a slight inherent issue with like the whole concept of side hustles. Like, I feel like they've been really glamorized in like recent years, you know, the whole idea of like, working a second effectively, like a second job to, you know, make enough money to get by, like, turned in to be sort of all like, you know, you can go and work with Uber and it's this whole sort of issue with the gig economy, which I think is just sort of like
an unhealthy part of our society. Like it's sort of inherently capitalistic, all that sort of stuff. I have a I have a problem. And I think there's also like a bit of like a privilege issue here where it's like calling a second job a side hustle, which is like the glamorized version of it, rather than just a second job, which you need to work to get by. Like, that's sort of doesn't sit right sometimes with me. But anyway, I recognize a lot of people do it and really
enjoy the side hustle. So it's I know it's not always bad, but I do want to recognize that there is like a little bit of a perception issue here.
Yeah. I mean, the rise of insecure work. Yes, 100% a thing. And sort of whether it's, you know, a good thing that we have like new technologies, we can jump on and do an Airtasker and sort of do these and connect to work opportunities that might use our good skills that we have. That's that might be good. But is it a sign that, you know, you just don't have a full time job that with an employer who's committed to you and your career progression and paying
you a fair wage? And we know, of course, the wages in Australia being backsliding, not keeping up with inflation for a number of years. So is it a sign of desperation that people are sort of having to now go outside of their pay job, still do the the full time work, but then also hustle on the side just to keep? The rising cost of living. That is a predicament a lot of people are in. That doesn't sound very fun to me.
No. But at the same time, I think there's a lot of people out there who just genuinely enjoy monetizing their hobbies and things like that. So I think there's there's many bits of ways that you can sort of swing it.
So exactly. And I think it's at least thinking through some of the things like we're going to go through a list of potential side hustles for you if you're interested, just because it might spark some ideas. And, you know, I mean, and to preface everything by saying that to make sure that you're being paid a fair salary in your full time job, you know, do ask for those
pay rises. I think it was that our second episode that we did that was, you know, you can side hustle yourself or you can ask for a pay rise that might give you the equivalent if you're lucky, and if you could negotiate anyway. But that's yeah, Before we get into the side hustles, I do say make sure you get paid.
Represented, compensated fairly from your from your main place of employment.
And if you're not, maybe you should spend your spare time looking at job ads and getting a new job where you might be paid more. You know, if you're not happy with what's happening in the in the day job.
Indeed. But I suppose how do you how do you define a side hustle? I mean, I feel like that's sort of in the name, right? It's something you just do a little bit extra on the side, right?
Yeah, something on the side. Just a bit of extra cash in the pocket outside of a traditional job. Although, you know, if you really into your side hustles, they can grow into small businesses.
Absolutely.
That might be a future career for you. So but I'm open to the idea of doing some things on the side.
Yeah. And I think we all do at some point in our life, do a little bit of extra something on the side, like, you know, even if it may not be something that you think as it would be a side hustle, but maybe you've just made a little bit of cash doing, you know, whatever. You sold some pinecones in a basket.
On the pine cone, retail.
Pinecone. Right. So this is just as the job title after a journalist and an economist who's also a pine cone retailer.
Add that to the business cards. So we thought you can basically divide side hustles into two broad types of categories which we'll sketch out for you. This is my methodology, Tom. I hope you're on board with it. You can either sell, sell your skills and time or sell your stuff or rent your stuff. So sell your skills, sell your stuff. And I thought we might start with sort of listing
out for people. If you're interested in getting a side hustle, selling your skills, you know, and your labor on the side, what are some of the the best ones. 30, Right?
Yeah. Well, I was like, you know, as we've sort of just mentioned before, there's been a massive rise over the past sort of decade, I guess, in terms of these gig economy companies like Uber, Ubereats, DoorDash, Menulog, know, Deliveroo, RPA, Deliveroo, you were too good for this Earth, or at least too good for Australia, apparently, and Airtasker and all those sort of things where you can go and, you know, deliver food to people or pick people up and or,
you know, deliver someone's couch to them or help them nail some nails into a wall. I don't know how handyman work, but that sort of stuff like the you know, there's lots of there's lots of like sort of things where you can sell you sell your skills in that sense.
Yeah. And some of those are sort of what you would consider lower skills, like you just your skills that you can drive a car and you have some spare time and you're willing to do that. But I think Airtasker is fascinating, like the sorts of things, the jobs that can be posted on there. And again, it is that sort of wonders of technology and being able to connect us. And if you've got something to sell, just
doing it in a more direct way. So yeah, Itasca as well, you know, but that can work for you too. You know, you're great at sort of, I don't know, what are you great at?
What am I going I'm great at? You know, being a being a good friend.
Not being a good friend.
No, I I'm as a one of my hobbies is photography, which is something I do on the side. But like, I. I would never be able to I don't think I would be able to actually monetize that. Like, I don't think I'm good.
I can you could probably go on Airtasker and say, I'll be your friend for the day. That's it. A hundred bucks, you know, that's what I'm a great, caring, warm person. There are lonely people out.
There, but I wouldn't $100. I'm not doing that for a whole day. $400. Okay. Yeah, I'm going to need more. I'm going to be more conversation than that.
Well, you can you know, you can test the market.
Inside of this to get to like all of this, to get into like the realm of like, escort, like, you know, So I think, well, maybe, maybe, maybe we get a little too close to the sun here.
Keep it legal. Yeah, that would be advice. Yeah, but I love that, you know, monetizing your hobbies, whether it's, you know, you're great at drawing or sketching, and particularly with photography, you can sell prints. And I like to talk about the sort of difference between side hustle and
passive income. If it's something that, you know, you, you are producing great artwork and you can sell reprints of, you know, one that you've done the work once you've taken the gorgeous photo, but you're selling prints of it, that's almost it. You know, there's delivery costs or whatever, but it's a more passive thing where you've not taking
a new picture every time. I think that's a great idea. And, you know, people get on mentioned Airtasker, you know eBay you can sell arts and crafts Etsy everyone can have an. See store. Now that seems to make it really easy. And moving into the world of like digital products, you know, which is a little bit more passive, as we say. You know, particularly on Etsy is one where you can sell, you know, get paid for like you're the specialist in this.
So you write a small, you know, ten page PDF on get started on whatever it is, which is sort of like an alternative to traditional book publishing. And then once you've done it, every download is, you know, passive income for you. And as you know, I'm into a bit of budgeting and lots of people sell templates and spreadsheets. You know, here's my net worth tracker. I can make quite sizable passive incomes from having produced that intellectual property and just pop it online and see if it flies.
Well, you can write a book called Money with Jess, and you can sell that in every good bookstore.
I haven't told you this, but last night I won an award. Oh, yeah.
Congratulation.
Thank you. Book of the Year by the Australian Business Awards. So, yeah. There you go.
Let's see if you. If your side hustle is good enough, you can win an award for it. You.
Exactly. I'm really proud of that, actually. Yeah. You should decide.
And lastly, I guess, like, you know, you can sort of take yourself back to when you were when you were younger and, you know, when everyone used to be a babysitter or dogs today. And that's something you can do these days as well. You know, you can put an ad on a local noticeboard or on your local Facebook community group, a good common network or whatever they are these days where you can offer, you know, babysitting, house, sitting, pet sitting, lawn mowing city guides, or another very popular
one for that that people do quite a bit. So these are these are all all options that are a good way to get a little bit of extra cash in the pocket.
Yeah. My first job was lawn mowing lawns and we just and my brother also used to mow lawns and we got in the publishing business and just did some flyers and dropped them around letterboxes in the local neighborhood. That is still a legit option.
My first job was the paper on which my parents used to help me with because it was in a rural area and it was way too big for me to do by myself.
Oh, well, did you split the money?
They gave me all the money. It was right. It was a great gig, to be honest. I got I was fantastic. Anyway, but on top of. Well, I suppose as an aside to selling your skills, you can also sell your stuff. So you can be like Jess and you can sell a basket of pecans. Is there any have you sold anything else like that? Jess, Is that your best come up?
Sold a lot. Like I kept a spreadsheet of my transactions and there was one year it was pre-COVID. COVID put the brakes on my Facebook marketplace reselling business. But I had so done in the order of 150 to.
220 hours.
In the course of a year. In addition to the pine cones. My one of my favorite ones is I bought some fake grass for $100. It was offcuts from like a tradie who'd been laying it on a commercial site. And I used it to lay down just out on my balcony, my patio. So I bought it for $100. I used half of it, and then I sold the remnant for $100. So it was essentially free. That's great
that I got that. And then my best one I did, veering to some interesting territory of of morality issues in terms of I would also look and get free stuff on Facebook marketplace because sometimes people just move or they just want something gone from their house. So you grab it if it's good. And then I would sort of
have it in my house for a little bit. I mean, this was how I dealt with the morality of it, because it was like a painting this big Balinese batik painting or was like a fabric thing in a nice gold frame and a lady just wanted it gone from. So I went and grabbed it. I had it for a while, decided it was too big and I thought it for 150 bucks.
They go.
To.
Someone's.
Trash, a bit of arbitrage.
Versus treasure.
Some people think that's probably a bit dodgy, but you know, everything has an innate value and people people perceive that in different ways. And, you know, I did make a profit.
And that's and that's what it's all about because it all adds up, which is the name of the podcast. But I think in that sort of vein, like sort of selling like, you know, secondhand books, furniture, all that sort of stuff is, is really, really popular these days. And one thing that's become massive, I think, in the
past couple of years is like reselling vintage goods. Like, I see I feel like every week there's a new like Melbourne Instagram account, which is like, you know, selling random stuff like a little, you know, porcelain tiger or something like that. And people just go and find these in like UPS shops and garage sales and then just resell them. And it's like they're making quite a lot
of money off this. Like these people sell them for a few hundred bucks and I'm sure they got them for a lot less than that.
So yeah, people can develop like a neat knowledge and go into the op shop and see the bone shine or whatever it is, and it doesn't mean anything to me. But there are brands, you know, and particularly with clothing, the luxury high end brands, and they'll sort of score the the one and then pop it on like an eBay store and resell it. So you got it. You got some postage costs involved in that. But if you've got an eye for, you know, vintage goods, that's something
to consider. Another way of sort of moving. If you're into clothes and you've got the luxury brands, there's a lot of consignment sellers as well. You just kind of Google consignment seller in your area. And so particularly if you have sort of lived in a opulent manner, but now you're finding your pennies, you can sort of get rid of some of that stuff and not just check it out by using consignment sales. Yeah.
And then there's also sort of things like these sort of falls into the similar bucket to the Uber and Menulog and all that sort of stuff. But like renting out your car or your car space just mentioned that. You mentioned that you had done that, rented out your car space for a while.
Yeah. And a neighbour had just said dropped a flyer saying they needed a space. That's all. I got that. But you can, you can post your car space on Facebook marketplace, you know, with a dollar amount. And there's another site called Park Hound where you can advertise car spaces for lease and then you can also just rent
out your car. There used to be something called car next door, which I think is now Uber Fareshare and this other one's called Drive My Car, an American one called Turo 2ur0, which is just about to launch in Australia. So when you're not using your car, you have to go to the office. These days they make us do that. You can, you know, your car's just sitting at home, you can let somebody else use it. And you know,
there's apps that sort of arrange it all. You have to sort of think about insurances as well and make sure you're properly. Covered. But, you know, thinking of what assets you have lying around and sort of making turning them from dormant assets into income producing.
And I think like, you know, on the very, very far end of the scale for that, if you if you are lucky enough to own a home that for whatever reason, you're not using to live in. I mean, you could always put it on something like Airbnb, but like I feel like that's sort of like, you know, if you're in that position, you probably don't need a side hustle check, which she.
Could check it for. But as someone who does have that privilege, another one, if you're reducing holiday costs, is to look at home swaps or home exchange websites.
Trying to sell me a time such as this.
Yeah, we should swap homes. I can come to Melbourne and Sydney and have holidays for free.
In Melbourne and Sydney. Two great holiday destinations. Yes.
It's a bit limited. But yeah, you know, a spare room if you've got one, you know, can become an income producer for you if you need it, if you're not.
And I think an important thing to think about is like not every side hustle has to be something like new. Like you don't have to be like creating, you know, you have to sit down and be like, Right, what can I do? Like, what can I sell? Or, you know, you can just be something that you do already or have already like, you know, a lot of people talk about this like monetizing their hobbies. Like, you know, as
I mentioned, I do photography. Maybe one day I want to sell prints that would be, you know, quote unquote, a side hustle sort of thing. So don't like if you are interested in doing it, don't stress yourself out about like having to come up with something. It can just be something you kind of do already.
Yeah. And but also to be aware of tax implications so that the ATO is on to us all side, hustling ourselves in our spare time. And you know, if it becomes a significant source of income. So maybe you just like making little papier maché things or something and it's just your passion that you want people to own
your paper maché creations, that's one thing. But if you go setting up a market, stall, your advertising, you have a business name, then you might be getting yourself into the territory of being a small business and that being something you might need to get an ABN with. So do just, you know, maybe talk to your accountant if you have one, or just, you know, be mindful that income that you earn from side hustles can in some cases definitely be taxes.
Yes. And sometimes it can be the case that you might earn so much from a side hustle that it boosts your income up over a tax bracket that could sort of eradicate the sort of benefit you get from the side hustle in the first place. Right. In terms of the amount that you would end up getting taxed. So it's something you have to sort of think about.
Not be diminishing it. Yeah, Yeah. But, you know, sometimes I think what the ATO doesn't like. Okay.
Oh, bold words. Oh, you're going to have, you know, of Chris Jordan busting it all around in the second time.
I sort of figure if you all sort of selling a few of your photographs.
Yeah, I mean I've never declared any of my side hustle quote, income to the ATO. So they go.
And I think I did interview the ATO tax time and I asked them about my Facebook marketplace stuff and it was not a business that I was running. I just happened to have sold some things and bought them some things and there was any resulting profit or loss was not taxable. And I said, So maybe if I became just surviving Marketplace reseller extraordinaire.
Papa.
John's Inc, it would have been a thing. Yeah. So I hope there's some ideas there. If people are sort of needing to rustle up a little bit of extra cash these days. You know, some of the sites we've mentioned, you know, give it a Google. You can just Google side hustles. But yeah, if you have some extra time and you don't actually need that for relaxation or seeing your family. Exactly. To look after yourselves, everyone, and make sure, of course, that you're getting the pay the pay that
you deserve. And your main job would be my take out.
Yeah. And I think the thing is like also it's good to keep in mind that like, a side hustle shouldn't distract you from your main job, nor should it be like additional stress in your life, right? Like, don't do it if it's going to make you feel crap and like, you know, stress you out and make you worried. Like, just only do it if it sparks joy. You know, as Marie Kondo once.
Said, and if it doesn't, and if your job doesn't spark joy, maybe spend the time looking at job that since did. Indeed. So onto our listener question of the week, which is from Mallika. Hi, Jess and Dominic. We recently bought a house and when negotiating interest rates with the bank, it would be helpful if you could provide some tips,
especially on how to structure the home loan. The fixed interest rates are currently much higher than the variable rates, and considering the cash rate hikes have slowed down a bit. Does it make sense to still opt for a fixed rate? What do you think?
Still tough? I don't know. It is one of those sort of situational things. If I was doing a home loan right now, I would probably be sticking with a variable rate because there is the sort of view that the cash rate will stop rising soon and could start dropping next year. And the great thing about being on a variable rate is that if you stay on it and you see the cash rates start to drop and those fixed rates start to go down, you can then
make the switch pretty much whenever you want. You're free to free to do that. So I think it's sort of good at the moment to keep your powder dry because you're right, there are some fixed rates out there that are really high. And if you're going to be on that for, you know, a year or two years and then the interest rates start to drop, then you're going to feel a bit shit. So I think that's that's probably what I would say. But what do.
You. Yeah, I've always taken the view that fixing is sort of a gamble. You're trying to figure out where interest rates are going and the banks got a lot of very clever people to try and figure that out, that they'll probably win on the deal. We've just come off a really historically unusual period where fixed rates were lower than variable rates, and that was incredibly unusual. It was to do with the pandemic. And so this idea of fixing is sort of become very popular because you
could fix it these 1.8, 1.84%. But traditionally it is the other way that fixed interest rates are higher than variable interest rates. And that's because you're paying for a bit of certainty because, you know, you just feel like you need the certainty of knowing what the repayments will be each month for a fixed period. And traditionally you do pay a premium for that. So I think we're back into the more normal world where that's the case.
And then whether you fixed or whether you variable, that's sort of a personal preference as to whether you can stand the uncertainty of you don't really know exactly what the repayments are going to be or whether you want to pay for the certainty to have it in. And anything else is gambling and sort of trying to time the market or figure out which one. You can also
do a little bit of both. This is I didn't know this that you could sort of have half of your loan fixed for some certainty, half of it variable. You can structure that in any percentage split you want. Yes. So just explore all those options.
Absolutely. And just what is your budget tip for this week?
Yeah, this is from my friend Meredith. Hi, Meredith. She told me about this on the weekend. If you want a cheap holiday, particularly if you like, a bit of camping, a bit of van camping glamping, There are some new apps to try in Australia. So if if you do want to grab a camper van and go around Australia, you know, there are big retail brands that are quite expensive, but there's now an app called Camp Le Phi where you can, you know, camper van owners. You know, it's again,
it's sort of a side hustle for them. They pop on their camper van. They're not using at the moment or it's a motorhome or a caravan. And then people can, you know, rent that out from from the owner and presumably is cheaper. I haven't used it yet. But then so just sort of paying the retail price and then you can combine that with another app called Hip Camp, which is another online marketplace where people who have properties,
rural properties, can advertise, lease out their space. So maybe you go, you get the camper van on camp, the FI, and then you find a spot to go park in the wilderness, which is just somebody who's got a property they're not using. So you can combine the two and have a lovely holiday. So I'm very much an aspiring camper van Holiday just.
Yeah, I'm like, I like it like unhealthily obsessed with like people on, you know, like Tik Tok on Instagram. Who are those like Van Life sort.
Of a nurse.
Like I, I can spend, I can spend hours watching that sort of stuff with. It's like, I don't think I could live that way. I don't think I could live in like a tiny van, but like watching the when the fact that I can and I've got like, you know, spices hidden underneath the stove or something like that, it's yeah. And it's all like, perfectly like bento box sort of, you know, shoved into place. That sort of stuff fascinates me. So maybe I'll go and go and,
you know, live my best van. Life fantasy, if you.
Like my life. Yeah. Give it a try. And then if it's not you.
If I, if I call into the podcast next week from a van, you'll know.
I'll, I'll praise that and admire that in you. Yeah.
As we should.
Yes, we should celebrate. You know, it's good to talk to you again next week.
Yes. Thanks everyone for joining us. Say, let it. This episode of It All Adds Up was produced by Julia Carr, Cat Soul. The information discussed is general in nature and does not take into account your personal financial situation, goals or objectives. You should always do your own research or get professional advice before making any major financial decisions. If you like today's episode, hit follow a new podcast app. Leave a review and recommend it to all your friends.
You can also submit your list of questions in text or audio form. AT It all adds up at 9:00 PM today. Thanks for listening.