NIL & Social Commerce
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Michelle: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome back to Inside the Click, your creator economy podcast. I'm
Monica: Michelle. I'm Monica.
Michelle: And we have got a really exciting episode in store for you. We are going to talk about, college athletes and the fact that now that the NIL rules have come into play, there is so much opportunity for those student athletes to be monetizing and essentially figure out how to be a A money driven influencer, so it can make money through brand partnerships and affiliate. We're also going to talk about TikTok shop and how authenticity has been increasing as they've been trying to grow the platform before getting into it, please.
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I do think that something that is so untapped in this whole industry, especially relative to this, something that's really powerful about these college athletes is that they have a Skill that is outside of just, here's my family here.
I'm selling this here. I'm selling that. And not that that's bad, but that's kind of more what a traditional influencer is. And I know that we've talked a lot about [00:02:00] like on the podcast about how building those storylines can help you be like more compelling and essentially lead to higher conversion and sales and stuff.
But with those athletes, they already have that storyline. And it is so much more powerful like, let's say that you have a gymnast who's like, I drink this protein powder with my coffee every day when I wake up and the gymnast has good results and it creates just a more trustworthy.
And I think like it increases the synergy between the brand and whoever they're trying to leverage to. Not push the product, but that is so underrated. I don't understand why more platforms aren't trying to bring those people on you [00:03:00] know, how we've seen LTK is like really trying to go for Bravo people, like they've kind of cornered the market on that, but where are these companies and trying to.
Sign on Michael Phelps, I follow him, he does a ton of stuff like with like mattresses and Colgate and he's doing
Monica: that stuff. Yeah. And I feel like Sean Johnson, I feel is really good about it. But I think that's where what we just named are two Olympians. And I feel like traditionally Olympians know the importance of having those.
Brand sponsorships and like they used to be like, maybe one big brand and now with social media, they can do a few smaller ones, but for an Olympian, that's always been such a big deal because it's not like you are in the NFL. Getting this insane salary playing every week, right? Like it's such a different pay structure that I think you, [00:04:00] and I bet I have no idea, but I would be willing to bet that within the Olympic training structure, there are PR teams that like really help those Olympians.
Those top tier gold medalists, silver medalists, get those sponsorships. So I feel like that's kind of maybe built into the Olympic structure versus these student athletes, if they're having, so this article said that basically it's the athletic staff is helping them with content creation. And it's like what the running back coach is helping them create content.
So I think that there's. A miss right now where these platforms might not even realize the support that these athletes need in order to create content. Because I haven't heard anyone else really talk about it outside of this article, outside of us, [00:05:00] when like one of our first episodes.
When we were talking about how University of Colorado was doing their hashtags on their jerseys No one is talking about this and it's such a gap in the market creators want Support they want help they want to be taken to the next level But I think especially with student athletes, there's so many people that are not in the creator's space, that those are the people who think, oh, all you do is get your phone out, take some pictures, and you're good.
And they think it's so easy, they think it doesn't take that much work anyone can do it. That's mostly probably it. They think anyone can do it, but the truth is there's the strategy involved. There's the analytics. There's the storytelling. Not everyone can storytell. There's just so many parts to it that people forget that support is needed when doing [00:06:00] this.
Michelle: There's also an opportunity I think with kind of like peer-to-peer, caN you imagine if a really successful influencer, so let's say like Leigh Anne Barlow, if she, something that like piques her natural interest, let's say that she's really into gymnastics.
And you know how I think it was, there was that girl from LSU that was like, blowing up, right? She was one of the most successful. She either just graduated or I think it's a senior now or something. Could you imagine if she reached out to her and was like, Hey, this is a whole new thing for you.
I can help you figure out how to do this. And then on top of that, because these athletes just have a natural, like, they have that natural storyline built in. So it [00:07:00] could be like a effect where the student athletes would figure out how to do it. And then also. The more traditional influencer would get some benefit from that, too.
Yeah
Monica: and that's why I like how L. T. K. now structures their webinars because they'll do webinars where it is. Internal people who work at LTK running it, but then they also do the webinars that are led by other creators and they do it based off the topic that that creator is really good at and 1, it makes it so that LTK's marketing team doesn't have to like.
Do it all right, but also it allows that kind of peer relationship mentorship relationship within the industry. And if anyone thinks that a creator who doesn't want to learn from someone else. Who is maybe [00:08:00] 5 steps ahead 10 steps ahead. I don't know what land you're living in. I hear people say, oh, they're already making a 1Million dollars in their business, so they don't need help. And it's like, well, What if their goal is to make 5Million dollars in their business at the end of the day, I think if you are a self starter, which is what you have to be to be a successful creator, you value learning.
You value education. And pretending like there's a cap to education, I think is a huge miss for a lot of these platforms and agencies and managers.
Michelle: Yes. And also the whole industry is just constantly evolving. Even we see that as we are putting together TLDR as we're doing five on Friday, they're, I mean, granted now is a little bit slower just because I think all companies are kind of just [00:09:00] chilling out um, before the new year starts.
But this whole space is always evolving. Yeah. If you have what you know right now, and you basically take a snapshot in two days, that snapshot is not going to be accurate of what the real situation is. Because things just have evolved so much. There's all these new platforms popping up. Even a new influencer, right?
Can come in and change the game completely. I think that also at times being a little newer to this industry can also be beneficial because you haven't just been like in these grooves and humming along. You come in and you're like, here's the new opportunity, or this is a little bit stale, you're just able to pick things up and see it from a different light.
And that can really be helpful, [00:10:00] even if someone is making a million dollars already.
Monica: Exactly. Because at the end of the day, a million dollars isn't that much money. It's more than the average American makes, yes, but it does not guarantee you a comfy cozy life where you get to just chill. You, You don't get to not work if someone gives you a million dollars, you still have to work.
You're not like, I get to retire early, I get to phone it in, like a million dollars. A
Michelle: million dollars pre tax. Exactly. Yeah, they bring home a million dollars, but then 40 percent of that is just
Monica: away. And then you have three kids. And the list goes on, you have to pay 2 employees, it's not, it's like that shiny million dollar number, so the Dallas Arboretum is doing this thing where every year they do a million Christmas lights, and I'm like.
[00:11:00] Y'all a million Christmas lights is not that much. That's like what 200 strands of light Then my friend was saying that her zoo and her city was doing the same thing where it's like a million light Do you know how many bulbs are on this like it's just not that
Michelle: yeah, they're like One inch and there's
Monica: goodness people love the one million number,
Michelle: but it's those round, shiny numbers.
I think, but that again, I think is kind of another groove that people can just fall into, whereas the student athletes and that is just kind of a terrifying thought. Like the linebackers coach advice on how to like go about their [00:12:00] partnerships and deal with social media and stuff. It there's such a gap.
Yeah. There needs to be like a, if someone can make a sports management talent agency, or at least start spinning up departments. That are dedicated to that.
Monica: Yeah, there was this agency in Dallas. It was called J 1 s. I think they got acquired. They were kind of like. Not the most not great at business, but their specialty was TikTokers who were athletes and it made sense.
And then I think they had some people who were wives of athletes. Which is a whole different market and I feel like they are really leaning into social media and the content creation because people are so curious of the behind the scenes of being married to an athlete.[00:13:00]
And I feel like with social media, this is the first time that curtain is being. Unveiled, I feel like for the longest time, it was just this mystery that if you knew someone in it, then you knew a little bit more, but this is the first time that people are really sharing what that world is like.
Michelle: It's pretty hard being on the road. I can't even imagine just having to not sleep in your own bed. So much of the time, like during season. Actually, you know what? I'm sure you've watched this. Have you watched the Quarterback mini documentary series on Netflix? No, I haven't. Really good. But I also like that type of you like the F1 thing.
So I think you would like it I did get a lot of respect from Patrick Mahomes from watching it cause it follows Mahomes, Kurt cousins and Marcus Mariota, [00:14:00] who he ended up like leaving the team during the season.
And it was really interesting. Yeah. But one thing that I thought was fascinating is Kirk Cousins. He said that he takes Tuesdays off. So like even if they're going to have practice, whatever, Tuesday is his day that he spends with his family. He like goes with his wife to the store or drops the kids at school or whatever.
And he does not do anything football that day. No. It's kind of interesting because that whole life right, like, super grueling that little tactic, I think, has also saved him a little bit, but then also part of me is just like, he's good? Is he ever gonna like really win?
Does he have like that? It's just I don't know. There's always kind of that push and pull, but you should watch [00:15:00] it. I love that type of like docu series stuff. Actually, Mahomes, his trainer, is still his He basically paid to relocate his childhood personal trainer, and he still works with him like He's been working with that guy since he was like, maybe middle school or something he took care of his people.
Monica: Yeah, that's true. I have heard that But yeah with the the Kirk cousins thing. It's like There's so many buckets because like him, like he does have to move every so many years, but he knows he doesn't have to move every year kind of thing. Like his family has to pick up a move every year, like that level.
But then there's that level of what's the influencer? She, her husband just got cut from the Raiders and she's always talking about I'm blanking on her name right now. Wait, I think I know who you're talking about. Her husband's Isaac Rochelle. What is her name? Here, wait.[00:16:00]
Hold on. Allison. Allie. Yeah. Oh. Okay. He's gotten cut four times in the last year or something like that. And she's pregnant. And they've moved three times across the country. That is an uneasy feeling when you literally have to pick up and not know where you're moving to the next day.
That I can't imagine.
Michelle: That's really rough on families. Exactly. I think that people always think that it's this super glamorous life and Whatever, but there, even if you're not in a market to can you imagine if someone told, let's say that you grew up in Florida, and then you get recruited by the Vikings or the Indianapolis Colts and you're like.
Oh, my goodness, like I have to figure out how I'm even going to exist [00:17:00] here. Yeah,
Monica: no, it's true. It's wild. I remember being at a Chiefs preseason game and the section that we were in was where some of the wives and girlfriends for the 49ers who they were playing against were sitting. And. oNe of the girls was talking to us and she was like, yeah, hopefully today's game goes well, or he might get cut, like he's a rookie.
So like the preseason game really tells what's going to happen. And then she was going into, like, how much he was getting paid being a rookie in a preseason game. Like nothing. And obviously she has to pay for her flights to travel and all that. And it's people assume just because you even play in one game that you're set.
And it was like, yeah, it was not something that sounded easy or enviable or anything like that.
Michelle: Yeah, even with San [00:18:00] Francisco, right? That's a super expensive market. Yeah, but that is why doing stuff like this and figuring out how to Secure brand partnerships or even leverage affiliate to get some extra money Because they have in some instances, right?
I know you mentioned the other day Everyone is going to have their own superpower, but in a lot of cases, I think that a superpower that's really hard to figure out is the storytelling and incorporating your life and being more personable. And so that's the thing where athletes have that edge. So it's really just about.
Getting the other side and unlocking that. But once you can do that, it doesn't necessarily, I don't want to say it doesn't matter, but it's like, okay, that rookie, for example, if he has his other [00:19:00] brand partnerships and some little affiliate stuff going on, it puts less pressure on the football thing.
And so when that pressure is kind of reduced. In a lot of instances, you perform better, so it can, it basically can all connect and help lift everything up. And how nice would it be if you are a professional athlete and you get injured and you're not like, Oh my gosh I have to keep. Going because I don't know what I'm going to do, like how I'm going to make money.
Monica: Even more so for the student athletes, like you go on scholarship, you're trying to make it professional after you graduate, you get injured junior year, like then what, you know, and just. Even everything that they do like, not every college student is going to go professional. So giving [00:20:00] them that extra something when their games make millions and millions of dollars anyway, I think
Michelle: there's a stat that's like only, is it 0.
1 percent remember there was that commercial that was like only 3 percent of high school athletes play D1. Only 0. 1 percent play pro. It was like, it was some commercial that they would play during like college football games or something. And that is so true for a lot of these athletes, especially, we've both participated in obscure sports. There's not a professional league that pays well. Even so swimming did start like a international swimming league relatively recently. It's like Even if you win a race, I think sometimes the prize money for first place is like 20k.
[00:21:00] So if you win and you like you win consistently, okay, you can make like a considerable salary. But if you're going and let's say you get fourth place. But then you get no money and your salary from the team is maybe like 2k a month. You can't live on that.
Monica: No, and you can't even.
Say that then coaching is going to do it. I made 5, 000 a year at the end of the day when I was a head cheer coach for high school. It was like basically a volunteer job.
Michelle: Very similar with swim coaching, but with that type of a thing too, it is very personally fulfilling and you don't want to be in a situation where you're like, you have to pay me more because then the strain is on the parents and then it's like, potentially the kids can't do it.
And you always want to give everyone a chance. So even doing that, [00:22:00] yeah. If you have some other outlet, again, it puts less pressure on that. For example, when I give private lessons, it would be funny if if anyone I know from that community listens to this, when I give private lessons, I just say okay, it's a quote 30 minute time slot, but then I go as long as we need. So there have been some times that like, I think I get paid. Technically it would be 30 an hour for a private lesson. So for a half hour, it's 15. And I've gone like an hour and a half, right? But that is not a sustainable way to build livelihood.
Monica: If that were your full time job, that would not. I would
Michelle: not work. Yeah, but I also don't just want to be like, okay we're done 30 minutes up. You could say maybe I should go all out for that and figure out how I can get a little bit of a partnership affiliate thing going, but [00:23:00] yeah.
Monica: But yeah, so that's something that really shows how the space is evolving.
One year ago, we would not be having this conversation. Eight months ago, we would not be having this conversation. Mostly because of the NIL rules, but, that's how fast things change.
And then even We were talking about, before we started recording TikTok shop, when TikTok shop first came out, we were like, Oh, this doesn't look like the best quality of stuff.
This is kind of questionable. And then now it's like, okay, all these legit brands are now on board and the conversion. Has been really good now, I've heard that the commission rates are awful and that the brands are the ones that are coming out winning because creators literally get like 3 cents, but that's probably also because the [00:24:00] product is usually cheaper.
I feel like what's probably doing best on tick tock shop is probably under 40. So that's not like shocking, but from what I've seen, brands are coming out winning because the conversion is so high and then the commission rates are so low.
Michelle: I think another thing that's contributing to that is when I was browsing earlier, I was seeing.
A lot of the verified shops, which by the way, love that. I wish that there was like a verified filter just because I would only shop from that. But a lot of the verified shops they're doing very heavy markdowns. Like I was seeing a curling wand I think it was from the brand Bondi boost or something.
So they are checkmark official. And the curling wand that I saw was originally 99 and [00:25:00] it was on sale for 49.
Monica: Yeah that's probably why the commission rates are so low because TikTok is fronting the discounts. They're not making the retailers take the hit on the markdowns. So they probably had to pick one.
Are we going to do high commission rates or are we going to front the markdowns? And I think to get consumer in the habit of dropping it, they had to do something that was going to take on Amazon.
Michelle: But I love that verified thing. That's one thing that with Amazon, I know we've talked about this before, like even if I go to a brand shop.
I don't know if it's legit. Exactly.
Monica: Oh, I ordered, what was it, like some Spanx, like Shaper things like a year ago and I probably just didn't even pay attention to the shop that I was [00:26:00] buying it from or whatever and I remember getting them and being like, these look different than my other ones, but whatever.
I re I think it was like, I needed them for something immediately. Didn't matter more than once moved on, forgot about it. Last week, got an email from Amazon saying, Hey we found out that these were fake and we're reimbursing you and the seller is no longer allowed to sell on Amazon. And you could blame it on the consumer because I will fully admit I was buying them in a pinch and just needed something that was going to be delivered next day.
But that's also why I wasn't like, oh, no, these look like a fit a little bit different because I was like, okay, it could just be on me that I didn't do my research
Michelle: because it's so funny, though,
Monica: you do need to kind of [00:27:00] double check. I will say, but yeah, I would never thought twice about it until I got that email from Amazon.
Michelle: But that's interesting timing of that email, because you know how, like, and we actually shared the podcast I think it was that the journal did, they did that episode that was basically like TikTok and Amazon are copying each other. Oh, yeah, they're like. Doing what the other one does. So they try to get them to stay on the platform and both make money.
And, we know that there is, I think, intense competition right between both of those platforms. And so that timing of your Amazon email is interesting because TikTok shop brand new, but definitely they're making an effort to get more legitimacy in the items that they're selling. Yeah. So I wonder too, if now Amazon, [00:28:00] I'm sure Amazon has a team that's combing through and because I think that, talking about how this industry moves so fast, if that happened five months ago, six months ago, Amazon probably wouldn't have said anything and just shut the seller down.
But because they want you, a customer, to perceive them as having legit. Stuff, I'm going to actually keep an eye out for them emailing me because I have a feeling it's like partially a publicity like roadshow type thing as
Monica: well. Yeah, it definitely could be because I mean, it does take somewhat of manpower from their customer success team to do the research on that and like field.
Okay. How many people have complained and filed? Complain about this seller when it's Amazon, think how many complaints get sent in a day, like AI can only help you so much [00:29:00] fielding all of those and they laid off so many people. And I think especially in like customer support warehouse, all of that.
So, Yeah, it. It does take manpower means that they're investing in
Michelle: that. I wonder if there is going to be a really big effort from Amazon to clean that up.
Monica: There has to be, I mean, they did a good job of cleaning up the, um, well, I guess I say they did a good job. It lasted for maybe a year and a half, but cleaning up the counterfeit items.
I feel like you can't find as many like big Cartier bracelets as you could before. Now. People just have some system in place where they get shut down and create a new site pretty fast. But I remember when I worked at LTK, that was a really big deal because a lot of creators would do collages that are like, um, [00:30:00] splurge or steal.
And so they would show like the Amazon Cartier bracelet or an Amazon Van Cleef. And. Amazon shut that down so fast. They were like, we will stop working with you if we see a creator posting this. So it was very intense and a lot of warnings did have to go out to creators. Basically like, we will kick you off the platform if you can't, abide by this policy, right? They were very much like, they weren't like, you won't be able to link to Amazon. They're like, you can't be a part of us. Like, If you want to be a part of our network, you need to abide by all of the standards of the network like. Pick and choose and I think that's a respectable stance.
You should hold everyone on your platform to the same standards and not be like they could bring in an extra 500, 000 this year. So [00:31:00] even though they're a little sketchy We'll keep them like, that's where it gets into kind of morals and ethics and right.
Michelle: And having a high quality community.
Monica: Exactly. A community that's respected because. They're a reflection of you. If you are a creator and you use X, Y, Z platform, people are going to associate the 2 of you together, whether it's good or bad.
Michelle: Yep, I think that Amazon too has done a good job, like what you mentioned, right? With the physical items, but something I think is still rampant and actually.
That dermatologist that I follow Shereen, I think that's how you know how sometimes you just like you just see their name and you never in your head pronounce it. It's like sure. Shereen address or something. She does pillow talk derm. She [00:32:00] literally posted this morning. Or last night, a rant about how Amazon sells so much counterfeit skin
Monica: care.
I will never buy skin care on Amazon. Never.
Michelle: Yeah. Agreed. Lately that like snail stuff has been trending and I'm just like, I know that people are saying it works, but are we sure we know what it is?
Monica: I mean, Ulta sells it. I feel like if Ulta sells it, then Yeah, if it were only, I've heard good things.
I have a friend who swears by it. But if it were only on Amazon, I would be question marking it. But it was like the top selling Ulta item during Black Friday or something like that. I feel like Ulta has a little more checks and balances than Amazon, but another thing that I've been seeing just with online shopping in general, people ordering from like Saks [00:33:00] or Bergdorf Goodman and getting the package and it's like a worn pair of boots, or it's a completely different brand, like this girl on TikTok bought it.
800 Acne boots, and it was a pair of Michael Kors inside the Acne box. And then the retailers are like how do we know you're not the one lying? And blah, blah, blah. It's this huge mess. And I remember when I worked at Neiman's in the buying offices, I went through their executive development program.
And one of the rotations that we had to do was with the cybersecurity team, which was fascinating. So, Not only was that interesting, because they will basically watch these big orders come in, type the address into Google Maps, and see like, if it makes sense. If it's literally the middle of nowhere in Africa.
That gets flagged. If it's a tiny apartment in [00:34:00] this weird area in rural whatever, that'll get flagged. But, then the warehouse was saying, how people would order a pair of Louboutins, put a fake pair of Louboutins in the box, and then return it. And then the problem lies where then that recirculates and that pair of Louboutins can then end up in a store.
It can end up anywhere. And the fakes are getting so good that the authenticators who work at the warehouses, they can't really even tell. And it just sounds like, based off these TikToks, this was, 9 years ago. That first started to become a thing and so nine years later, I see all these TikToks and the problem must be getting so bad and what's scary is that it can get all the way down to the store level.
At least when you're at the store, you can open the box and make sure it's the right pair of boots. But the [00:35:00] real nightmare is the fact that these stores customer service or like, well, what if you're the one frauding me, you know, like proof online
Michelle: shopping is fun. I know
and there's also a part of me that's like, if the counterfeit is so good. Like, Obviously you don't want to pay full price for that, but
Monica: it's like, okay, the problem is when it's like a Michael Kors boot for
Michelle: so
Monica: blatantly not have been
Michelle: worn. Yeah. What that is. But, yeah, so do you know how TikTok shop actually plugs in with like the specific retailer or brand that they have the shop for?
Is it in the warehouse or is it that they have plugged in and they would. Send, for example like Elf, I saw them on there. That's what I think it is. Yeah, I think it is. Okay, so they're not doing their warehouse thing yet? [00:36:00]
Monica: I think they're doing the warehouse thing for like those Chinese items that are like coming, those like cheaper items.
Because from my understanding, they're using those Chinese warehouses. Yeah. And then everything else. I guess is just sync through like probably Shopify. my guess would be most of the authenticated retailers are Shopify based e commerce and they just did an integration with Shopify.
Michelle: Yeah. They have increased the legitimacy because before it was awful. So probably good things to come for the future. Yeah.
Monica: Have you bought anything yet? I haven't It's only a matter of time. Why do you say that? I think I've only ever bought one thing from Instagram
Michelle: shop. Okay. Yeah, they were doing a promotion for a while where they were like, if you buy, you could save like 40 percent or something.
And I almost [00:37:00] did five times, but then I never
Monica: converted. Yeah, I'm trying a new experiment I never link to Instagram shop items, but I'm doing an experiment where I'm linking to them in my reels And I'm seeing if doing that boost the reels because they're like, oh you're using another one of our features.
Okay now So I'm doing an experiment to see if that actually helps keep you posted. Yes.
Michelle: Yes. You have to let us know
Monica: all right. That is it for today. Thank you for listening.
If you are new here, don't forget to like, follow, review all the things. That is how we make sure that we get you everything you need to know when it comes to the influencer industry. And as always, say hello to us over at Inside the Clique. Thanks,
Michelle: everyone. Bye.