You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everybody, welcome to I Choose Me.
This podcast is all about the choices we make and where they lead us. This is a special day today on the podcast. All of you listeners have gotten to know some of the other people in my inner circle, but today you get to meet my youngest daughter, Fiona. Hi, Fiona Bai.
Welcome to the podcast.
So happy to be here.
Oh, I'm happy to have you here.
Now it's I think I've had everyone. Oh maybe not Luca, I can't remember. Anyways, Today we're going to talk about something that affects both of us, I know, stress and overthinking, and we're going to be joined by a psychologist and author of Stress Resets, doctor Jenny Taits a little bit later, but first I want to kind of just talk about the fact that we're overthinkers.
M hmm, yeah, I know.
I've been overthinking most of my life, certainly upon becoming an adult. I think that's when it really started for me. Before I was an adult, I was working in an adult environment, so I had a lot of stress, and I think that caused me to overthink more than a normal person.
Perhaps I can imagine.
I don't know.
I'm trying to think of like, what are certain things I overthink about? What are things that you overthink everything? Everything?
But I feel like recently it's gotten worse as I've gotten a little bit older, with all the stresses and end of high school and all that, just thinking about my future and stuff. But yeah, yeah, honestly, I feel like my brain is constantly on a spiral at all times. And I know you sometimes feel like that.
You said you're a senior. Yeah, for those of you that don't know, she's in her senior year of high school. And so I think during a senior year for teenagers, there is a lot more stress all of a sudden, and it comes fast and it comes hard, and you're like, wait what.
Yeah. I remember the first day of senior year. I was like so overwhelmed because I had all these college applications that I hadn't even started thinking about. But yeah, it's been a lot. Even though it's over the college applications, I still feel myself like always feelings I have something I need to be doing.
So college preparing is a stressor for you, it makes you overthink what else?
Hm, I feel like just life and future, I beyond college, just what I'm gonna do, and every day just where you're gonna live, Yeah, where I'm gonna live, Where I'm How'm gonna make money.
Who's gonna do your laundry?
Exactly? I feel like a lot is just hitting me.
Yeah, what about like social media?
Social media for sure.
Yeah, I feel like it's just constantly stressing me out, especially TikTok. I feel like recently just scrolling and there's always something new that I'm seeing, and sometimes it can be really scary, and sometimes it's like just very stressful. It feels like there's something always on my mind.
M hm, how did this?
I don't know how the TikToker works. Do you like pick who you're gonna follow and that's all you see or do you get random stuff all the day? No?
Well, yes, you can follow certain people, but there's also like a for you page, which isn't really for me anymore because I feel like my algorithm is so weird recently, and like it'll just show me random videos of like stressful things and it's like I got hooked to them, you know.
And before you know it, you're yeah, yeah, it's like.
Ten minutes long, and I just keep watching, keep watching, and I feel like I just think about that all day.
And well, for example, like, what's an example of something you saw that made you think about it all day?
Well, the other day I saw the saddest edit of like just the state of the world right now and all that stuff, and it just kind of got me thinking and stressing about these greater things than I am, and you know, climate changed.
And all these things that I shouldn't really have to be worrying about, but like I am, And I feel like it just escalates it so much on TikTok, because it's once you watch one video, then there's another video about it, and the amount of times you're watching the video then gives you more videos like that, and it's just it's a lot.
It's very stressful.
So your algorithm isn't just puppies anymore.
No, it's not.
I mean I thought it was. And then you watch one video about World war and then there's ten videos about World war and then it's like I don't even know how that got there, but.
Oh man, yeah, yeah.
I Mean when I was younger, I didn't have those kind of stressors. I didn't have that access to all the bad things happening all across the world. Yeah, my fingertips exactly.
There's like a lot of news channels on tichnokal news accounts that just.
Kind of update.
I remember when the were happening in California, every single video my for you page was about the fires and how they're getting worse. And it can be really stressful because not only does it set you into thinking about that, but then when you turn off TikTok, that's also all you can think about, and then you're you know, spiraling and just going off in your head about it.
So I'm sure that can be really hard on a person, especially a young person's nervous system. Yeah, yeah, that doesn't I remember when you know, social media started for you, and I think my biggest concerns were like, oh no, she's gonna see naked people or like poorn or something like that was my biggest concern. But I think just the state of the world and politics and everything right now is more concerning than that. Okay, that's so true.
As a mother and a daughter, let's talk about what causes each of us to get stressed with each other. Because you're the baby of the family. I was the baby of the family, so we have a lot in common you. I think you know that we're very similar. I don't know if you like that. It's good, right, but what do you think? I'll just tell you what are some of the things that I get stressed about with you?
Okay, okay, here we go.
How about for the Super Bowl, you decided to go into your stepdad's closet and take out one of his vintage Eagles shirts from when he was a child, and you decided to be a good idea to cut it into a tummy show. Yeah, who's cute.
That stressed me out.
You look really cute, but he did not look so cute.
I mean no, okay.
It was at the bottom of his dresser.
And yes, that's where you keep things that are important to you.
Probably just moving forward.
It says something like, what did it say? It's just it doesn't matter, he said, I manage what it said, because it said like you want a piece of this, get in line or.
Some Oh you like the slogan. Okay, well you can explain that to him further. One of the other things that stresses me out is when you drive. Every time you walk out the door. I stress out until you walk back in the door. That's not your fault, that's just being a mom. Yeah. I stress about your stress level honestly, Like I worry that you have too many things to deal with at such a young age. I
stress also about just your experience. I stress so much about you being on the social media because I see you in the morning, you're on it, and right before you go to sleep, you're on it like you're going to sleep with some maybe not so great imagery and messaging.
I feel like I try to do a good job of you did trying, but it can be.
A lot sometimes.
Yeah, what do you stress out when with regard to me?
I mean, I don't even know. I feel like it's just a constant stress sometimes with like you know, making you proud and all that, and I mean, I don't really know what I stress about with you.
What do you mean making me proud? Like you stress about making me proud?
Grades I want to.
Make you proud, but you do.
Sometimes the way I act can be I have a lot in my head and a lot I'm overthinking about. Sometimes I lash out at you or you know, I can get irritable and stuff like that, and I and I stress about how you think of me and stuff like that. So I do I stress about when you're stressed. I can feel it by the way I know when you're stressed.
These are both It makes me stress. So, yeah, we're gonna have to talk to the doctor about that.
I do want to know how to deal with that.
H Do you stress about the way you look? Do you stress about things like that?
Yeah? I think that's always a stress in a lot of people's minds, absolutely, especially with social media and all that. I think like it's very heightened the way the girls see each other like themselves right now in comparison to others, comparing yourself. I stress about like what people think of me all the time, even though I try to not so is you know high school too has been really hard for me. I know, like I know other people
have had hard times too, but it's very stressful. A lot of girls pitted against each other, a lot of conflict and drama, and that just make someone stress about who they are though.
That that whole competition with girls your age or just other girls in general, is so damaging. Yeah, And you can you know if you start that in high school you carry that around with you for a while, Yeah, until someday you're just free of it and it's the best feeling ever. But I remember that feeling as a young adult, certainly a young girl working as an actress. That made me feel like I was against other girls times, and I hated that feeling.
It stresses you out because you know that that's not who you are and that's not what you want to do. But then it feels in the moment that that's what's happening, you know, And it also causes you to overthink. I know it causes me to overthink a lot, just kind of going on in your head down this spiral of like am I good enough? What? You know?
All those thoughts that come up?
Yeah, so all the thoughts that's the ruminating. I think that's the like obsessing on one thought and then it sort of just spirals and you start thinking about all the other bad thoughts that can.
Go with it.
How do you stop yourself from doing that? Before we talk to the doctor and find out, Like, I'd love to know.
How she stulls it, But I think sometimes for me is I do have a really hard time stopping you when I start to like go down that hole. I want to ask the doctor this. But I did see something where like if you say a certain word out loud, it kind of stops.
The thought cycle.
I don't know if that's accurate information, but I want to know how, like psychologically you can really stop yourself from ruminating, because I feel like when I start it, just I'm thinking about something and it starts into something else, and before I know what, I'm spend forty five minutes of just spiraling in my head.
And I don't even what if you, like, say you're ruminating on the way to school about something. When you get to school and your body's doing something different and you're seeing different things, do you do those thoughts end or Yeah?
I can get distracted.
Yeah, distraction especially I heard one thing naming just like pointing out five things you see and like smell and hear, and you know, stuff like that can help you make your mind think in a different pattern. But yeah, I do get distracted when I start thinking about certain.
How how do you feel in your body when you're at your most stressed? Like where does it show up in your body?
I actually was thinking.
About that the other day because I don't know if I you. But I tend to get really sweaty. That's normady, Okay, I really have a problem with that. All my friends like nowhere where like sweatywear.
I don't want to get into that.
But armpit, sweat, hands, sweat, yes, okay, okay, do your feet sweat us?
You know? But I think I don't know what that is about. But definitely very tense.
I feel tense overall. Do you feel like your shoulders are up here?
Sometimes? Oh? Me too.
I also genuinely like my head starts to her. I don't know, like it's just what I'm thinking so hard about something for a long time. It's like I feel like I start to get like physically sick about it.
So you remember when you used to go on airplanes.
You were eight seven six in those years, and we traveled a lot, and you used to get so worked up, whether it was f four in the morning when we were getting on the way to the airport the night before you knew we were taking an airplane, you would work yourself up so much, stress about it so much that you would oftentimes make yourself sick, like physic I can remember physically sick, actually running through the airport to catch a flight, and just trying to get back and
forth to new garbage cans for you to throw up in on the way to the gate.
I definitely think that was thought induced, like fear paralyzing fear, Like I was really anxious when I was little. You were, Yeah, I know. It was like a bunch of different things. And I had those I don't know what that was, those ticks I had where I would like have to touch the car ceiling when when we were passing a red light or else.
My whole family was gonna die.
And that was because I was like overthinking, huh so much.
You have a massively powerful brain. You're so smart, and you are so in tune to people's emotions. I think that that might make it even harder for a person to get control of it. Yeah, so I think it's really important that you get control of it. I think now would be a really good time to bring in doctor Jenny.
What do you think.
Yeah, I'd love to hear what she has to say. I'm really excited to me. Let's do it.
Hi, Hi Jenny, Hi Fiona.
Hi.
Fiona was just telling me earlier that she's a big fan of yours.
Yes, I watched you on call her daddy.
Oh thank you, that was why I got up. Thank you.
Yes, well, you were listening into our conversation, right I was.
I was listening in and I firstly like applaud your courage and vulnerability, and I also totally relate. I was like a professional ruminator until realized that it was a toxic habit and that there were ways to free yourself from this habit.
I like that a professional ruminator.
Sign me up, professional X ruminator.
I'm hopefully after this episode, I want to be an official X ruminator. Do you I think that as parents, we kind of disregard our our especially our teenagers stress levels, like what maybe not taking the time to fully hear them out, or you know, we ourselves as parents are so stressed out and spread so thin.
It seems like.
There's so much variability between different parents. I think some parents can really empathize, and for some parents it's too painful and they don't want to hear it and they want to try to change the channel or they and there's there's like a dance, like you want to be empathic and validating, but you don't want to fall into co ruminating or like removing together in a way that's
not helpful. And so I think it really depends. But I think the first place that's important to start is kind of what do we make of our thinking habits. A lot of people think that the conscientious, like responsible thing to do is if there's a problem that you are trying to figure out, like where you're going to go to college or climate change, that keeping it top of mind all the time, especially if you're smart, is going to somehow lead to some sort of solution or breakthrough.
Or we have a lot of positive beliefs about worry that like if I worry about this, then I'll get into my choice school, or I'll keep my family safe. But we really need to take a step back and kind of see or is kind of overthinking in this
way actually empowering us or depleting us? And is there like a sweet spot where we can like literally schedule ruminating, like schedule time to worry, like cap it at twenty minutes, like you get twenty minutes to really think about, like where do I want to be next fall?
Is that term you use worry time?
You could call it worry time, you could call it like I call it in stress, resets, reschedule, ruminating. Because the problem is is we know, we're really clear that the more present in the moment you are, the happier you are. And fifty percent of the time we're not in the present moment. For the course of the day, you could have anywhere between like twelve thousand and sixty
thousand thoughts. So often we're worrying about things that will never happen, and we're anticipating things that are just totally painful. But if we can like move worry or overthinking from like a news ticker that's like sucking energy and joy out of you, or like Fiona so really and courageously talked about like causing physical symptoms sweating, nausea, if we can sort of see, oh my gosh, I'm doing the thing. And there's a lot of different techniques that work for
different people. I go through, like you know, so many tools to break free in this habit and happy to go through a bunch.
Yes, yes, give us the tools.
I'm wondering when you're starting to get into that ruminating spiral and you can't even get to yourself to the point to be like I need to put this away I'm gonna worry about this later. What are some tools you could do in that moment that you would give?
Yeah, and there's so many and different again, like different
things work for different people. I think this is so person specific, Like if like, first, the first thing I think is really knowing your triggers, like if you went to a high stakes social thing or a college interview or you had a stressful conversation with someone, Like knowing your triggers like when am I going to be most triggered, and then having a game plan for them, like, Okay, if I go on a date, prime time for ruminating is going to be afterwards, I'm going to be replaying
what I said and wondering what the person thought. I'm going to get into all that. What can I do in those moments? And so maybe it's like this seems so silly, but like I have little kids and I do paint by sticker with them a lot. It's kind of like paint by number, but with stickers. Do you know what I.
Mean?
How can you possibly be like let me perfectly align number twelve into this thing and also be so having like some sort of compelling I mean, again, there's a lot of different tools. But for some people, having a activity that requires your full folks that totally blocks you from doing something else, whether that's doing the paint by stick, or whether that's reading a book that really captivates you,
whether that's really listening to a friend, baking, whatever. The thing is having a specific plan for you of something, and like knowing at a time, like I'm doing this thing, there's a really good chance afterwards I'm going to be tempted to fall into like the tar pits of torturing myself. Here's what I can do instead, and something that I think works across the board regardless. And I want to hear I Fiona and Jennie, what are some of your thoughts on what would be kind of a thing that
would distract you. But one other thing I'll say before I get to that is there's a tool that I teach in stress resets, which I love. It's called TIP and it's an acronym for changing your temperature. This sounds so cooky, but like if you took a salad bowl with ice water and you hold your breath instet a timer for thirty seconds. If you submerge your face in the ice water, you so totally transform your nervous system.
We all have a lot of us think that solutions are outside of ourselves, but we have this incredible pharmacy within us, Like your body is a walking pharmacy.
That's so interesting.
Literally, put your face in a salad wole full of ice. Your current weight will slow down. You won't be thinking about the same thing. I mean, if you've ever jumped in a cold pool, like you're not thinking about anything except.
Is it the same with like baths and hot water? Is it only cold water?
So my response is like a special like evolutionary thing that our bodies do. We're like drowning. So it's with cold water and specifically like holding your breath and getting your nose submerged.
That's a problem for me. I can't do that, but I don't like the water.
Cold, Okay, So that's cold water. The rest of the acronym of tip is intense exercise. And that's like ninety seconds not ninety minutes. If you start doing burpies, like you cannot be doing burpies and like replaying a conversation that you think badly, and so ninety seconds of burpies, paste, breathing breathing in for five five again very cognitively like sorbing,
Like you can't be counting your breath. And we could even do this together, like breathing in for five with our nose and out for five with our nose.
It always resets you so nicely, right the breathing.
Yeah, And then progressive muscle relaxation. That tip is two peas, tensing and relaxing your muscles, like from head to toe. These are like quick things in the moment, but bigger picture, we also really need to work on accepting uncertainty, like we need to drop the rope and know that we'll never know like what other people totally think of us, or what's going to happen tomorrow, or what climate change
is going to do in fifteen years. But I think we need tools for the moment and tools make picture. But I'm so curious, Jennie, and if you wona, what are some things that would help you get really present even if you feel like you're on the cusp of spiraling and once you it's stuck, it's hard to stop.
You go first me. Yeah, I know you like to take baths.
I read I'm a big bath taker. I love taking baths I also love.
But do you ever sit in the bathtub and just think about your problems more so?
Yes, that's usually how they go. But recently I've been trying to. I've been taking a lot of my books with me in the bath and honestly reading. I think, especially with social media and phone time and all that stuff, being a teenager brings. I think, the books and reading and really slowing down and thinking about something else that's helping me and stuff like that helps a lot for me.
Yeah, there's something right, doctor Jenny about the reading and the eyes going back and forth. It like does something to your brain, right.
I think even what you just said was so brilliant, Like leaving the phone, I mean again, like the phone and I know you guys were talking about that the phone is like training me to jump and red like you can't. I mean you don't want to. You need to pay attention. You need to like use your full brain to like remember who is this carricter? Or what do they say? And so I love what you're saying for you, and I like stacking things like it's not just the bath, it's getting rid of the phone plus
the bath. Plus maybe there's a pleasant smell. Plus the book, we have like a whole plan of the things that will really center you in this moment, Jenny, What are some of the things.
That I find nature to be really helpful for me with any kind of stress reduction? And I feel like playing with my dogs, like looking into the eyes of my dogs and connecting with them and taking care of them. I've always, my whole life been a person that loves to take care of other people or things, or the house or whatever it is. I'm just wired to do
things like that. So I will sometimes submerge myself in a task like cleaning out the sink or you know, doing something gardening, something that keeps my mind and my hands busy and focused on something else fantastic.
And I mean, the thing that I found so surprising and also like hopeful in my research from writing this book was a study where people were asked in a lab setting about something really upsetting that happened to them, and like fifty percent of the people had the option to like eavesdrop on research assistance chatting outside, so just people were like having a conversation outside and ninety percent of the people who had the chance to eavesdrop, and
these are strangers. This is not juicy like celebrity you know, high school gossip. This is total you know, lab assistant gossip. Those people immediately stopped ruminating, but the people that didn't have the option to distract continued. And we don't want to live a life that's distracting. But by really learning it's actually the ruination becomes a distraction before really present with our puppies or with reading, then we can get
more present. And the whole point of all of it is to live a life that's angered in the present, not having like you know, our minds. That can be really tricky.
Yeah, I find that most times I'm ruminating, it's either about the past or the future. It's never about where I am in the moment. And I think sometimes when I'm getting into those patterns, I do think what do I see right now? Like what is happening right now? And think about that moment because that kind of anchers me down, like you were saying, so that's very helpful.
Yeah, I mean a few others. I want to make sure that I cover like a whole range of different things. So distraction can be helpful if you know that there's like a particular window of time, like seven pm to nine fifteen at night, or after a high stakes situation,
having a specific plan of something you could do. But if there's something that I've upset you, someone betrayed you, or you face some sort of loss, I don't want to encourage you to just be distracting and distracting for those situations being able to write, you know, expressive writing, writing for twenty minutes, and research where people wrote about something for twenty minutes the same topic over three days. Six months later, they were significantly less depressed and less
prone to ruminating. So there's something about like actually going through something with a beginning, middle and an end, and like slowing down and actually letting yourself feel because ruminating is just like touching the surface and like a not structured way, and so actually like feeling your feelings and going through taking the time rather than just kind of like you know, playing whack a mole.
Wait, you said feeling your feelings. I know that in your book you suggest giving yourself a panic attack so you're less afraid of them.
And I don't know how to give myself.
I mean, I guess if I really put my mind to it, I could give myself a panic attack.
But what do you mean by that?
A lot of people, if they have had panic, are totally terrified of the sensations that resemble panic. If you have felt short of breath, out of the blue, even the like a touch of like breathlessness can lead to thoughts of oh no, it's back, what is happening to me? How is this happening again? And then your mind and your body are doing this like tortuous tango, where your thoughts aren't helping your body, and your body is not
helping your thoughts. It's you know, even if you start to sweat, if you like are mentally sweating about sweating, that's going to lead to more sweat. Yeah sure, yeah, But what happens if you break down exactly what do I feel when I'm really stressed? You know, if I start to feel really stressed, I feel short of breath, I feel a little dizzy, my body feels a little bit shaky. Okay, great, we can help you. You know, this is not in the peak moment of panic. This
is preemptively. Let's practice, like, let's set a timer for sixty seconds. We can hyperventilate for sixty seconds, we can spin in a chair for sixty seconds, we could hold a plank. And then once you come to realize that, like your body runs itself, you don't need to police it, you don't need to judge it. If you like literally say oh yeah, been there, done that, I know what this is, it loses its bite and the next time it shows up, you stop propelling your body with these
negative thoughts in a bad way. And so this again is not like a random idea that I thought of in the shower, but this is something that is really powerful and across all anxiety conditions, whether social anxiety or anxiety about flying, or driving anxiety or panic attacks where you're afraid of a specific bodily response.
So you're saying, let your body have the response, allow it to run its course, so you can kind of observe it and realize that it's not the end of the world.
It's going to stop eventually.
Exactly the same some people are afraid of elevators or heights, and they need to like face that few you can face the view that you can feel short of breath and that actually doesn't mean you're dying. That means you're short of breath and that will pass and your breath will also breathe itself when you stop like hovering over it and trying to micromanage it. And this is something that a lot of people find can be helpful with
a therapist. But if you allow yourself to practice like sweating and like you know, purposefully putting on a warm coat and not sweating about sweating, do you think when it came on it would feel less stressful or.
Yeah, I mean usually it's just it's not even that I realize that I'm sweating. It just happens, and then that makes causes me to overthink.
I do feel like kind.
Of preparing myself more would stop the scare, like you said, because sometimes I like, oh no, I'm sweating, and that means I'm overthinking, and then I overthink about overthinking, and then you know, I don't even know, But yeah, I do think that would help.
Yeah, maybe it's even when it comes on to not judge it, because a huge part of not judging it, I mean can't but I imagine if you went to hot yoga and you were sweating. I love hot yoga, and so you could generalize that, like, okay, sweating is great. Sweating is healthy, It is good for you.
Actually, it's so interesting you said before, you know, when you're looking at your social media and stuff, that you start to think that you have symptoms of a certain illness, yeah, or even like oh, when I get a sore throat, then you start this is something you do. You start worrying about your sore throat and thinking, oh, no, something's really wrong with me. I have the sore throat and it never it doesn't seem to go away because you're just focusing on it so much.
And every time I look up a new symptom online on Google, on TikTok especially, tell me a new thing. So I'm like, okay, I have this now, and then I also have this disease and all these things, and in reality I'm fine. But it's just I just have this constant worrying fear of health for some reason, and I don't really know why or how to.
What do you think, doctor.
That like we have to accept some amount of uncertainty, like we don't know if it is itchy because it's dry in our house or because we might be getting strap or something else. I mean, And so I think accepting in this moment, it's okay. It's okay because we can just watch like thinking those thoughts can lead to more symptoms and then maybe you're losing time to do something that is, you know, writing a report or calling
a friend back. And so a lot of people think it's helpful to like Google, but Google is really accepting it in a situation where you have recurrent fears that like you're almost like nine times out of ten, it's like, oh, this is just help anxiety. I know that I have this,
and I do this. I talk about something else in the book that a lot of people find fun is if you have a recurrent like stressful thought that never helps you, like I'm making something up, but like I'm going to die, and when you're not, you know, it's like you have you know, an itchy throat does not mean you're going to die. If you can sing that I'm going to die to like an upbeat tune, it automatically is like, oh, yeah, this is what you know, This is what I do in these situations. I tell myself.
It's like almost like if you don't have plans on a Friday night and you tell yourself you're a loser instead of really believing that and like syncing into that, and then then spending the night on social media and seeing what other people are doing, and then it really feels even more real. What if you sing I'm a loser for like a second to a fun song.
You know, I'm a loser, Like, yeah, it's the same thing.
With it, I'm going to die. It's like, okay, you're not going to die. Like the second you sing the song, it loses it's sting. And do you have some perspective because it Another huge way to change your relationship with ruminating is even just seeing like thoughts are mental events. Like thoughts are mental events, we can get above them. We can see our thoughts the same way we see clouds in the sky or but they also create very
real feelings. If I ask you to think about biting into a lemon, and your mouth will start to water. But if you can get above that and just see this is just a mental event, I don't need to get sucked in. Just because I thought about alignment doesn't mean that there's a limen in my mouth.
Yeah.
Sometimes when I will have a thought that doesn't make me feel great, I'll just say that's interesting. I wonder what that's about, you know, and then it kind of just without judgment, thinking yeah yeah, and then say we'll see what happens with that.
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that so much. I was at a conference, a psychology conference, and a colleague he was like an older senior person when I was in grad school, and I had gone to his workshop and so we sort of knew each other. And he came up to me at the conference and he was like, oh, are you giving a talk? And I said, oh, no, I'm not giving a talk. You said why not? And I said, oh, I'm not very good at giving talks. And he looks at me and he was like, did you thank your
mind for that thought? And it was like such a light bulb moment, like do you mind that thought? Like wow? Like me me, I'm not good at giving talks. It is like a story my mind.
You're telling yourself. Yeah, And I.
Can think of my mind for that thought, like thank you mind, you know.
Yeah, but you can then you can say oh, thank you very much for coming, but no, thank you not right now?
Yeah, Or you could play with it like I joke with my clients like what if your thoughts are like Susie from Curb Your Enthusiasm. You know you automatically. I don't know if you want to get the reference. Maybe we look like that we need to figure out some like annoying, complaining kind of character. Yeah, it's because again we get sucked into ruminating because we think that we're somehow helping ourselves.
We're going to figure it out if we think about it more and more, we're going to figure it out.
Let's think about it in a structured way, or let's see it with distance and humor and perspective.
What about when, like we as mother and daughter, we have stress over a topic or a situation, how can we handle that better in a way that's good for our relationship at the end of the day.
Yeah, I mean so I think talking about things in a constructive way. And so if there's something that happened like the Eagles T shirt or something like if you can have a timestamp like okay, let's talk about this for fifteen minutes and then let's get really present and do what we would do on a normal Sunday night. Because I think a lot of people think the more they turn it over, they're more they're again like gonna prevent it from happening again or create some sort of
brand new insight. But can we try to understand this with compassion and kindness, will validate one another At the end of the day, all we want is to feel understood and see and if you and I can totally see how you would like this is the perfect shirt, Like no one could, guys, sure better than this. Oh, this shirt really means a lot to to your stepdad and what may be a way to repair this with him? So again, like, if we can contain it, because I
think we get into it. It's fine to talk to your friends about something that's stressing you out, or to complain to someone about something, but can we you know, make it ten minutes not two hours?
That's good, that's a good.
Yeah.
I think sometimes when you're in the heat of the moment, we're you know, butting heads about something, we don't ever really have a conversation about it. We just kind of vent and pop off about it.
And that also causes me to ruminate about it more when we stop talking.
So it's better to just sort of sit down, give us that two minutes or three minutes or five minutes, whatever we need. Yeah, I like that. It's a great tip.
The problem solving. Problem solving is a good alternative to ruminating instead of like what if?
What if?
What if? Can know? Problem solve? This?
Problem solving that's something we don't think about enough. We just think about the problem. Yeah, I think I taught you this before. One of the things that my best friend Adele, who's a therapist, taught me was when I'm spiraling or ruminating or like feel like I'm gonna lose it because I can't stop thinking about something, to envision
a stop sign. To see the stop sign in my mind, the octagonal shapes, the edges, the white line around the border, the color of the sign, the way that the letters are white within the red and follow each letter in my mind. And then by the end of it, I've stopped thinking about whatever I was thinking about. And it's just ironic that it's the stop sign. It's just a bonus.
Yeah, And there's a skill that we teach. I teach as part of dialectical behavior therapy. Stop, slow down, take a step back, observe, and proceed mindfully.
Would like that Stop, take a step back, step back, slow down, Yeah, observe pndfully Already Oh my gosh, this has been such a great conversation. Thank you, doctor Jenny. I know that Fiona, you've loved it too.
Yeah, this is really helpful for me.
Uh, Before I let you go, I have to ask you a question that I always ask my guests, Doctor Jenny, What was the last I Choose me moment you had?
One?
Is?
I find like people find social media so distracting. I find texting is so distracting. And I just yesterday someone asked me to join a WhatsApp and I very proudly told them that I don't use WhatsApp because it's like this. I love like I Choose Me moments that are just in distances but dramatically overhaul your quality of life. And so much like ruminating takes us out of this moment, constantly texting and messaging, of being really present and so not.
Having what's upp was your voment?
I love that group texts. Yeah, this constant noise and pining and overthinking. And then the second one is even in this moment, I think I'm all about removing negatives and adding positives and even just taking a moment to really savor this moment. I you know, it's crazy. I used to watch Nina Tuna when I was Fiona's age. It is surreal. I never would have thought when I was an adolescent struggling with self doubt that I would be sitting across from you today.
Well, I'm so glad you are because you're helping so many people. So thank you. I know you helped us.
Yes, thank you.
I'm savoring this moment too, me too. Thank you, doctor Jenny.
Nice to see you, guys, Please stay in touch.
Yes, yes, nice to see you too. Oh my gosh, didn't you love that conversation?
I loved it. It was really helpful.
You know what always amazes me about you. You have a great self awareness about you, Like you know the things that you would like to do differently. I think you know, you know areas of your life that you're like, I need to improve that a little bit or I kind of don't want to be stuck in my thoughts it doesn't feel good, and like you seek out ways to make changes in your life. And I respect that so much about you. Because you're just eighteen years old.
I wasn't doing any of that kind of helpful, you know, thinking about thinking, Yeah, at my age.
You know, yeah.
I mean, yeah, you're just so ahead of where I was. I'm proud of being so much. Okay, but before I let you go, Fiona Vatchinelle, what was your last I choose me moment?
Okay, let me think. You know, I feel like I've been doing this a lot recently. I don't know if you've noticed, but I've been taking a lot of baths, like I said earlier, and I feel like it just is kind of a time for me to unwind from my day. And I know sometimes I want to bring my computer with me, like on my little like, you know, prop it up some more and watch my show while
I'm in the bath. But like two nights ago, instead of doing that, I actually read like literally half of my new book that I got, And I think that was just a really good moment where I put myself first and I was in a ruminating spiral, so it did help me. And yeah, I think reading and taking time for myself away from the phone is really just recently what I've been feeling like, I'm choosing myself more.
That's so good.
I'm glad you're getting that now because I've been telling you to get off that damn phone.
It's happening.
I'm trying.
Wait, what book did you take in the bath.
With the Actually you got it for me for Christmas.
It was the one.
It's called Choosing Myself. I don't know the author. It's called Choosing Me, and it's all about how to choose yourself.
Of that great.
Yeah, it's really good. Also.
Another one is one hundred and one Essays That'll Change the Way You Think. Best book ever. I reread it all the time. Brianna West I think is the author.
It's great.
Good hot tip yep from the eighteen year old you guys, You're welcome. Thanks babe, thank you for having me.
It's so much fun and learned a lot