There are so many graduate students that are doing amazing things and people in science that are doing amazing things with science, not only on their graduate work or their scientific work, but also their side hustles or what they like to, if they really get involved in science and they have a little bit of a knack or a skill to develop something, they
can develop something. And today we're actually gonna be talking to Paige Hull, who just finished her PhD in coastal eutrophication from UCLA in the US, She's also known for a little page that she has on TikTok and it's at 98,900 followers right now and it continues to grow. There are some videos that she talks about different stories around like surfing waves and sort of the impacts of the Olympics on
surfing waves. She also talks about the Resolute Desk in the White House and how that has an oceanographic tie to it. She does these stories in just amazing ways. And I wanted to have her on the podcast so badly. And she actually reached out to be on the podcast, which I was so happy. So we have her on today. We're going to talk to Paige about science communication and about her PhD work and just science in general. So let's start
the show. Hey, everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, what you can do to live for a
better ocean by taking action. And on today's episode, we're going to be talking about speaking up for the ocean, because we have Paige Hull, who's on the podcast today, talking about not only her PhD work that she did on coastal eutrophication and how she makes that really exciting to hear about, but also about
her science TikTok. her science communication tiktok efforts which are absolutely amazing if you want to go to her tiktok it's at lil l-i-l ocean page p-a-i-g-e you can check it out she you're not going to be alone in watching her videos but she has this incredible knack to tell stories. And it's out of this world. I was a huge fan of her before she reached out to me to be able to be on this. She goes,
hey, do you want me to come on the podcast? I can talk about this and this. And I was like, yes, absolutely. Yes, I'm a huge fan of yours. So I'm looking, I'm really looking forward to it, which was, it was an amazing podcast. We talked for over an hour about her PhD, about her science communication efforts. And it was absolutely riveting for me anyway. So I hope it is for you. She's a super interesting
individual. She tells stories on this podcast, like she tells stories on TikTok, and it was an absolute pleasure to have her on. And a lot of the times, when you hear people do a science communication effort, or dedicate their time to doing science communication, you don't really hear about the nuts and bolts of how they put videos together, or how they put a tweet together, or how they put a strategy together. You know, Paige goes in depth into that, and I think it's really
interesting. On the other side of that, on the science side of it, where she actually does science, she talks a lot about, you know, how she grew up wanting to do a PhD. It ran in her family. I've never heard of that, but it ran in the family with multiple
people in their family. had PhDs and so she always thought she was going to do a PhD and then she got interested at the age of four or five in oceanography which is insane if you think about it and then now here she is just finishing a PhD in coastal eutrophication oceanography and just being super interested in that that that stuff that we don't really hear about all the time. Oceanography is not as common as we think. When we hear about someone
studying the ocean, we automatically go to marine biology. She's like, nope, oceanography is for me, and that's what I want to do. And she talks about her journey to there, how she chose the project that she did, and why it was so important. And then, of course, the science communication aspect. So there's so much to get out of this episode. You're probably going to want to listen to it more than once, and I don't blame you. But here's the
interview with Dr. Paige Hull. Enjoy, and I will talk to you after. Hey Paige, welcome to the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk about all things oceans and ocean storytelling? I feel that I feel that because I have to admit like I do a little research before I have people come on And I did a lot of research on your tiktok page and you probably
tell the best stories That I ever like I'm a huge fan. So I'm very excited when you when you reach out you're like, hey Andrew Do you want me to come on your
podcast? I can talk about my phd I could talk about so i'm like absolutely like this is awesome and we found out we're both fans of each other so that's it's gonna be a lot of fun exactly so there's gonna be a lot of conversation but I you know I want my audience to get to know you today and to get to know what you did for your PhD how you got to the point where are you doing a PhD and what you want to do it on and then even into the science communication how
that you kind of fell into that and just realize you're like hey people like the way I tell stories okay I like So we'll see how that goes. But before we get into all that, Paige, why don't you just let people know who Yes. Well, thank you for the kind intro, Andrew. So my name is Paige, and I am an oceanographer. I have a PhD in atmospheric and oceanic science. And I have more recently become known as a little
ocean page or Ph.D. pagey on tick tock. And I've had a relatively successful ocean tick tock for the last year or so. And I'm really just enjoying all the science communication and spreading the wonder that I've always
had for the ocean. But now getting random strangers on the Internet to learn along with me, it's been such a That's awesome because I am, as you know, I'm a huge proponent of getting people involved in the ocean, people who aren't like studying the ocean full time or marine biologists or coastal scientists or oceanographers and conservationists who may not know much about the ocean and, you know, want to to be entertained at the same time as learning and I think you
do a perfect job in balancing those two and it's not an easy thing to do and we definitely appreciate it. What got you into the ocean in the first place? You say you've always had a curiosity. When do you remember that first time you were like, ooh, I like this So I was I was always one of those I have a frankly annoying story Which is that I just knew from the jump. I was like four or five years old and I saw a We had a VHS tape of
Robert Ballard. Dr. Ballard finding the battleship Titanic and No, no, no, the battleship Bismarck, the same scientist who found the Titanic originally, but this was a VHS tape about him finding the battleship Bismarck. And he, prolific oceanographer, he used all these different tools and now a very outdated technology to find the battleship. But I watched this VHS tape until it couldn't play anymore. I was just so... Even at that age, like four and five years old? At that age. Wow.
I was sold. I was like, you can explore the ocean as a job? That's a thing that you can do? I'm sold. And it helped that my grandmother lived in San Diego, and we would go down to visit her, and we'd spend our Saturdays just at the beach, sand on every single part of my body, in the water. I was always like a water baby. And I just remember wondering The waves keep coming. And every time I come here, there's waves. Yeah. what is this place? So that, like, imagination
was just like, from the jump. And from there on out, it was like, kind of a done deal. So yeah, from there, it really progressed. I, it helped that I was good at math and science and physics and chemistry. I was always, my family's like pretty scientific in background. I'm actually like, one Yes. Uh, which, uh, is, is an advantage in the sense that I was like, well, if my, if my dad can get one, if my grandpa can get one. If my great grandmother
had one, you know, like, why not me? It seemed like a very, like, not like it was an expectation, but almost in a sense seemed very accessible. Because I was like, well, they all did it. So yeah, why can't, why not me? Um, but yeah, I knew I was interested in oceanography, not marine biology. I find marine biology fascinating, but. I like can't see blood. So the thought
of cutting any animal open was like a no-go for me. Um, but yeah, I, I understood that like, oh, it's understanding the physics of the ocean, understanding the chemistry of the water. And yeah, it was just like, okay, that's what I gotta do. I gotta be good at math. I gotta be good at chemistry. I gotta be good at physics. And then it also helped, too, that my dad works, makes software for a mapping company. So maps are
very prolific in our household. And I loved maps, maps of the ocean floor, maps of countries and interesting... Even like the older maps, right, where the geography changes and the sort of the morphology changes as you go through it. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was pretty, yeah, it was kind of straightforward for me from the jump. I was like, okay, I love the ocean. I'm good at school. I'm just going to keep riding this until the wheels fall off.
I love it. Now, were you one of those students, say, in high school, like, you know, it's a math-intensive subject matter, even just to get into science, to get into university, right? You gotta take your physics, you gotta take your chemistry, you gotta take your calculus and functions and whatever that might be. Were you a student that naturally, like, you were able to learn it pretty quickly, or did you have to, like, work your There's no wrong answer by the way on this. Yes and no. I'd
be lying if I say I wasn't just good at math. I've always been good at math. But I think when I got into high school and in college, university really was a kick in the butt my first year because in high school I knew the exact amount of time I could put in and I would get a result and it would work and then I just assumed that would transfer to a university and I did my undergraduate at UC Santa Barbara and which is like a pretty rigorous school and I Going through that it was like calc to my
my first quarter. I Failed I got a D. I've never gotten anything lower than a B in my entire life. I was like And I got I got I was so upset I think I got a C in chemistry and I was like, oh it's a good student like First Oh my gosh, but I remember being so upset and my mom was like My mom came into my room and was like, so you just think because you worked hard, you're entitled to an A. Is that what you think? Like, welcome to the real world, Paige. But
I mean, she was right. She was right. And she's like, it's not about you failing this class. It's like, what are you going to do now? You got to pick yourself up, like brush your knees off, like, like deal with your bruised ego later. What are you going to do now? And I think normalizing, like failing so many people fail so many times before they get it right. I think But like perception that you need to be perfect at everything will cripple you. You don't
achieve anything because you'll just be scared. But yeah, I mean, I failed. I failed to math classes in college and undergrad. And I retook them and I got A's the second time. Yeah, I did OK in physics. I got through it. I took like the engineering level of physics. So like the hella hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But also too, I've always known that I had a good storytelling ability and I've always known that what I lack, even if I'm not an A plus student, my enthusiasm counteracts that and we can't all be the same. There can be someone that's better than me at research but can't tell the story, so how valuable is the research that they did if no one's going to know about Or that even tracks with when you go for a grant. It's a storytelling exercise, right?
When you apply for a grant. So you may be able to do the research and kick butt in the research, but if you can't get the grant to pay for the research, you're not going to be able to do the research in the first place, right? So that comes So during that part, that's a tough time. And a lot of students go through that. That's just not you. I went through that. A lot of people, we get humbled in university. It doesn't matter the year. There's always one course
or two courses that really help. For me, it was invertebrate zoology one and two. Our lab exam was like you had to identify the animal in a microscope, and then
you answered a question on it. If you got the animal wrong, you you you were marked like six out of ten you know to get perfect right so and it was never an animal that you've seen before it was always an animal that you hadn't seen before but you had to go through the process and identify the kingdom and the phylum and all that kind of stuff super super difficult but like For me, I learned to be resilient. How did that teach you to sort of, because look, doing a PhD is harder than
undergrad, right? So how did that teach you to fight back and just be like, no, I'm gonna scrape and crawl and do what I can to take everything that I know and to believe in myself to be able to do Yeah, that's the key word there is belief. It's such a fake it till you make it type of deal because you realize that You realize when you're in university that, you know, it goes two ways. Sometimes it's like, everyone's smarter than me. Everyone
has all this knowledge. But then you also do realize, well,
everyone had to learn it. once you know everyone was a beginner at some point and when you get to a certain level of academics a lot of it I do think is grit like obviously you need a certain amount of like you know ability to retain knowledge but at a certain point I definitely realized as an undergrad I was like I think this is just about just pushing just pushing onwards ask and also to like asking for help asking and putting yourself in the situations that
you didn't think you deserved. Why not try? Yep. Like as an undergrad, I took graduate level classes my last year, because I was like, you know what, why not? Like, yeah, let me just ask these professors and see if I have the chops. To get through a couple graduate level classes, and if I can do that, then why can't this? Like, why can't this? But I started and part of it, yeah, is you got to be a little bit cocky to be like, yeah. Why not me? I got this. Why not? Yeah, I got this. Whatever. And
what's the worst that's going to happen, right? My worst case scenario is really not that bad in the grand scheme of things. So I might as well shoot my shot. But I feel like a lot of once I realized I just needed to ask and put myself out there and continue to bite off seemingly more than I could chew, I was rewarded. It was like, Oh, you want to do an undergraduate thesis with some esteemed professor. Great. He's excited to work with an undergrad or like you want to intern for
this company in Denmark. Cool. They sit there actually interested in you because you asked like so much of opportunities like in this podcast, like, You just got to ask, you know, you got to, you don't, you don't wait for life to happen to you. You got to like go after it. And so in terms of a PhD as well, where that is a five year exercise in getting kicked in the teeth, like it is so humbling, but at the same time, like, you just got to ask, you just got to keep like, you're
there. You found your way there. That's not for nothing. Like, Keep trying, keep asking. And a lot of a PhD too, which I didn't realize until maybe halfway through, is it's proving that you're a scientist. It's like making yourself into a scientist and proving you're a scientist. It's not about being right. Because
so much of science is getting things wrong. And if you're so afraid to get things wrong that you don't do anything a little bit risky or do any interesting research or come up with any interesting ideas, then you're kind of failing your Ph.D. because you're not there to get it right. It's not a class where there's A, B, C, D. It's an exercise in making yourself into a scientist. And so that is a totally different experience. But it gets back to like the grit, like just ask,
just keep just push. Even if you don't think you deserve to be there, like Well, here's case in point. When you reached out to ask to be on the podcast, You were on my mind to ask to be on the, like, I was going to ask you to be, I just never did. I'll be like, she's at 98,000 followers on TikTok. There's no way she's going to, she must get messages upon messages upon messages. If I DM her, is she going to even see the message? Right.
And then we find out we're fans of each other and you're just like, oh my God, like, yeah, we're just people. And yes, of course I want you on the podcast. And, you know, and it's just a matter of asking and putting yourself out there to just be like, yeah, Might as well, you know. But that's such a hard thing to get over, I think, especially as a young undergrad
student. I think it's one of those things where, even in the science, like we all have friends we've probably roomed with or been in a house with during the undergrad where they're in business and they don't start class until one o'clock in the afternoon. And meanwhile, I started when I was at 830 every semester of my undergrad career. And I went, because there's labs that happen in the afternoon that are all afternoon. And as much fun
as they are, it's a hard day. It's a hard day's work. And it's a hard program to get through, no matter what you're going through, science related. It's a hard program to get through. And so during that time, you still have you know, the want to do, you know, oceanography and all that type of work. What was going through your mind during
your undergrad? Like, how did your mind change or did your mind change in terms of what you wanted to do afterwards, whether it be work or even PhD or what you wanted to Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great question. So I was so gung ho oceanography that I thought my, this was my, I think this was my freshman year, freshman or sophomore year. I was like, you know what? If I want to do oceanography, I should talk to grad students who are doing it right now and see, A, what they have
to tell me, B, if it seems like they're having a good time. So I reached out, I sent Lord knows how many emails, probably like 30 or 40 emails. So I went on to, and UC Santa Barbara is like a mecca for oceanography. So I looked on all of the different departments' websites, like the geography department, the earth science department, and I was majoring in earth science and geography, so I already knew some of those grad students. They had a special ocean
science graduate school. I found everyone who was doing research that I was remotely interested in. I sent them an email. I was like, hey, I'm an undergrad. Your research sounds cool. Can we sit down for coffee? Can I come by your office? And eventually what that ended up with was I got opportunity to do research with one graduate student who is towards the marine biology and like fishery side. And I helped him out with his research
for like almost a full year. And that was cool because I got to see he was in year two, three of his PhD. And I got to see what, what that kind of phase was like. Um, And then another God student responded to me, Alexa, who kind of remained my mentor to this day. And she was an absolute dynamo. I couldn't believe she was even talking to me. But she was like, your email was endearing. And I wanted to help you out. Yeah, you
seemed really enthusiastic. And so through those relationships and just staying really in tune with the faculty. I like loved, we had some great professors and I just went to office hours every single opportunity I could. I, even if I didn't have questions, I just wanted to talk to them and be like, yeah, how'd you get into oceanography? How this, and actually my, I think this was my junior year. I think this was my junior year. Robert Ballard, Bob Ballard came to talk to the earth
science faculty at UCSB. He's actually UCSB alum. And I got an email about it. This was like supposed to be a faculty meeting. I don't know how I got the email, but I was like, Oh, Oh, my gosh, drop everything. I went home to go get my one of his books, Eternal Darkness, which is about and I brought it and it's a faculty meeting around a round table. I see. Thankfully, I knew the professors are like, Hey, what are you doing here? And I was like, after the meeting, I like went up to Dr. Bauer
I'm being cool right now, but I'm such a huge fan. This is And can we take a picture? So through my undergrad, I was really like, emboldened. I was like, yeah, I can do this. Yeah, I can like it is worth my time and it helped that I had I had friends out obviously outside and Like UC Santa Barbara is like known to be a party school. So, you know, you get a little bit of everything There's like great academics, but it's also Sunny
and 70 every single day and you're on the beach. So, you know at times it was like, oh man, I wish I didn't have Two tough majors to do, but at the same time, it was just like, so cool. And the instructors were good. And I could, I could see I was making progress towards my goal. Like I could see, okay, like people are talking to me. I was like presented a conference, like all those little things that made me
affirmed in me that all of my efforts were not for nothing. It would be different, I think, if I was just taking classes and I was like, what am I doing all this work for? But I respond well to external affirmation. So But did you think also, too, like there's the affirmation part, but it's also it's that It's almost that motivation when you start to volunteer with somebody to do their, help them do their graduate work. It's like, oh, this is really cool stuff. Like this is
amazing stuff. Like even the student you said, it was a bit more marine biology. It probably confirmed you're like, yeah, I'm probably not into the whole marine biology thing, but there's all this other stuff. Did you get to do some field work with this Like it just motivates you to want to do it that much more, right? Yes, yes, absolutely. We were collecting crabs. We, like, went into the field. We went on, like, boats to go get crabs. I was like, this is so cool!
And then we had crab tanks, and we would dissect the crabs, which was so disgusting. But still, I was like, whoa, this is so neat! Yeah, at least there's no blood. At least there's no blood. Yeah, true, true, true, true. I saw more crab carapaces than I would like to have. But still, it was like, I like this whole process. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, doing this. And yeah, like, no, I felt like no time was wasted. So I'm thankful I went through all of it. But it's, it's not for the faint of
heart. It is like, very time consuming if you really pursue it. Well, and I think that's What a lot of people don't realize when they go into undergraduate and even graduate work is it's supposed to take up a lot of time. You're not just there to go through the motions, get the marks, get the classes, and then graduate. University can offer so much more. College can offer so much more.
And it's up to you to take advantage of that. I find in my experience anyway, and this is not everybody's experience, but it sounds like it's quite like your experience where Professors are very open to conversation. If you show passion, you show you want to help out or you want to do something, you want to volunteer, they will have you in their labs if they have room. If there are people who want to go out in the field, they're always looking for undergraduates to help graduate students.
And I think that really helps. And I find, like with my experience, the professor had like a little community in their lab. And it was like you felt part of that. That almost became a bit of your friend group, like your professional friend group. And I still have those friendships to this day. And now we're like, sometimes we're colleagues when we work and stuff. And so it's a kind of a cool experience, but you have to kind of get out
of the... It's true. You gotta get out of the party and social side all the time to really immerse yourself into the university atmosphere and the ability to do research or fieldwork or extra skill sets or whatever that might be to be It's hard to have that perspective at that age, too, to know the opportunity that you have. For sure. When you're 18 years old, you're just like, this is the next thing to do. It's hard to know that, like, This is your opportunity that you'll
Well, there are a lot of distractions at university. There's a lot to do. You can get involved in clubs. You can get a job at a bar, and that becomes your life. It's hard. There's a lot to, especially in the US, when university sports are such a big thing. You And there's the independent aspect. I was in third grade. I rode my Yeah, and sometimes that could be opportunities for
you, right? Like that could lead to other opportunities, but other times it could be a distraction to what you want to do if your group is not necessarily focused on the same thing. And so you really have to work a little extra to get to that, which you did, which is awesome. But at what point where you're like, I'm going to do a PhD like you had your family who were probably like, yeah, you could do it like you're on track
to do that. At what point did you be like, were you like, I want to do a PhD, but not only doing a PhD, but I want to do it in Yes. So yeah, the PhD thing was always kind of set for me because I was really in high school when i thought about okay i'm in the ocean what specific jobs can i get and i looked into. Actually being an oceanography was that entail. There are very few oceanographer jobs where you don't have a PhD because you're doing research. Oceanography is
not cheap. They need very well educated people to do it. Um, so I knew from the jump, I was like, okay, I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to get a PhD. Um, But coastal eutrophication came to me kind of my sophomore junior year of college um, I was taking a biogeochemistry class um biology geology and chemistry all put together Um, and it was a marine biogeochemistry class. It's taught by david valentine at ucsp shout out. He's an incredible biogeochemist Yes, he is.
I just remember the nutrient cycles were so fascinating to me and how nutrients interact so tightly with primary productivity and the biological pump. Then it was like, oh my gosh, we are really altering the nutrient cycle of the ocean in a way that we never have before. Never. Like, because if you even think about, you know, the Earth has been around for billions of years, there have been times where the ocean has been incredibly warm, and the
physics has changed and the weather is different. But we've, the eutrophication, the influx of human
nutrients is unprecedented. We've never seen anything like this and once I realized how interconnected it all was and how you could be a coastal ocean biogeochemist and focus specifically on oxygen or focus specifically on nitrogen or you know there's like a million different angles and I also think too Um, I love research for the sake of research, but to be frank, I want to do something that's like directly in touch with humanity and how we interact with the ocean. Um, because the
ocean is a resource for us. It's also like maintaining our planet. And I find the interchange really interesting. Like, okay, if we do need to dispose of wastewater and we don't live in a perfect world where there's no wastewater. what's the safest way in which we can dispose of it in the ocean because we're not in a perfect world. And so all of those kinds of questions really fascinated me. So that was about my junior year of college.
And then my senior year I did kind of a eutrophication style, um, thesis and I was totally enthralled. I was also enthralled with harmful algal blooms, right? that had, and actually I was exposed to those when I was doing research with the graduate student who was taking crabs, because some of the crabs had damelic acid, which is prevalent on the west coast of the United States from harmful algal blooms. And I was like, what? Like this crab is poisoned? And
he's like, yep, you wouldn't eat this crab. And that also to me is just like, wow, like it's also interconnected. And so it was around then that I was like, all right, it's coastal eutrophication. I'm That's awesome. For your PhD, did you do it at UCLA? Is that where you did your PhD? Yes. Okay, so you moved down the coastline a little bit to UCLA. Yeah, so my advisor was Daniele Bianchi. When I was looking at graduate schools, I looked at all the major oceanographic schools And
I was like, OK, who's doing coastal eutrophication? It wasn't until kind of at the end of my search that I was talking to a scientist at Scripps, Clarissa Anderson, and she was really involved in harmful algal bloom research. And I was like, I think I'm interested in how human nutrients affect harmful algal blooms. And she was like, I don't have any money, but I have a colleague who's really smart, who just got a grant. You
should go talk to him. And so, yeah, I was crazy too, because I worked so hard on my applications for like five other schools. But last minute, he's like, yeah, I applied to UCLA. And I was like, Okay, cool. Um, you know, and so I ended up there and it was a great fit. And I liked that his work was modeling based. So using a big coupled physical biogeochemical model to make estimates instead of in-situ sampling, which has so many merits, but that is really
expensive, really time-consuming. You're at the whim of the ocean, too. It's an unforgiving environment. Southern California, it, you would be shocked, you know? So, um, I was, and I love the, like, and this really gets into like my geography background, but I love that the spatial resolution of a model is everything. A model is inherently false because it is a model. But when you're dealing with ocean observations, you are at the whim of where can you take your ship? Where is, where is a
pier? Where is a buoy? And you have to guess for everything else. Whereas like the model really appealed to me. So, um, yeah, once I was in, I was so happy to be there. He ended up actually ended up that another student he had coming in was like a better fit for the harmful algal bloom research. And so I just moved into general eutrophication in coastal Southern California bite, um, that region of
the ocean around Southern California. And I focused, at the beginning of my PhD, I specifically focused on wastewater treatment policies. So yeah, in Southern California, about a billion gallons of wastewater are pumped back out into the ocean every single day. It's a lot of wastewater. That affects things. Yes, exactly,
exactly. And it's treated, it's all treated wastewater. So it's treated to a secondary degree, meaning that all the organics, all of like the poop and urine and all nasty stuff, it's turned back into inorganic nitrate and ammonium. But still, when you pump that much nitrate and ammonium into the ocean, it's going to have major impacts on phytoplankton and primary production. And so my research focused on some hypothetical scenarios
of different water treatment. And as we start to recycle more wastewater, how is that going And especially as the population increases, too. Yes. Right. Twenty three million people and counting. So very reliant. And the beaches of Southern California are visited more than the beaches of the entire rest of the United States combined. So it's like, how do we keep these beaches healthy? But also, we do really rely on, where else
are we going to dispose of this wastewater? So I love that human ocean, those questions, I love. And now, especially with offshore wind energy becoming very prevalent all over, I love the spatial question of, Where could you do this? Where would this be smartest? Where is safe for marine species? These questions, I love to think about all the different angles. So it was Especially as the complexity increases, like the ocean users increase, like you mentioned, bringing in offshore wind power. But
you also have fishers. You also have beach goers. You also have cruise ships and shipping in general, just trans-shipping in general. Then you have rivers. I think is it the Tijuana River that empties out into Yeah, right. And that's a river that has a lot of stuff in it, let's just say. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's a big unknown. Yeah. And it's a big water area, but there's a lot of people on the coast, and that has to be accounted for. So that's a
really interesting thing. But not a lot of people think about it. So when you talk about your PhD, to even your family who are full of PhDs, right? Like when you talk about that, do they relate to eutrophication? Even friends and stuff like that, do they relate to that? Because when you see people studying oceanography, like a lot of oceanographers, deep sea biology these days, and with the whole
deep sea mining and stuff, that becomes popular. Eutrophication always seems like, water quality always seems, even though it's super important, it's always at the lower end. Of of the scale when like when it comes to interest until like a massive algal Yeah Yeah, exactly exactly and I think with Like having grown up so I grew up about an hour and a half inland from LA like closer towards Palm Springs so Even if, you know, you don't go to the beach all the time, people know when it's
like, Oh, I heard there was a red tide. Like, Oh, I heard there was, you know, and I do think or something. Yeah. Yes. People are very interested. I think it is. And you know, with my research, I moved on to understanding how eutrophication impacts kelp and people have so many questions. They're like, yeah, I saw a bunch of kelp here and why isn't kelp growing here anymore? And so I will say, and especially in the sense that water treatment contributes so
much nutrients to the ocean. And it's so important for California. We're in South California like in a drought half the time. So It is really important to like have these conversations about what are we doing with our water? Where is it going? People want to know about desalination. Um, so I will say my, I'm grateful that my research is usually really well-received to the point where at my graduation party, I had to, I was like, I gave a presentation on my research
to all my friends and family. And then I said, please, can we talk about anything else through us? I love the questions, but I have gotten so many the last, like, five years. But yeah, I will say it's well-received, especially to, as in Southern California, it is very progressive with their water treatment standards. It definitely goes far. The Ocean Protection Council, OPC, is part of California State Water Board. They're very aggressive in
treating their water, and it has paid off. So all very interesting and again it's just like it all relates because people care. If they don't care about wastewater, they care about fish. Yeah. And the quality of the water impacts where the fish are. And everyone wants to know why there is stinky kelp on their beach or why there isn't kelp where it used to be. You know, it's like all of these questions. And with sharks in Southern California, they're like, what's the deal with the sharks? You
know, and that I know less about, but I do know about the fish. And I know the fish are related to the primary production, which is really the waste water. So it all kind of comes back together. So usually people are like, what, like, tell me more. Well, and that takes me to your communication, like a side hustle or whatever it might be, people asking you questions and your ability to answer them in a way that's interesting for people. Mm-hmm.
How was that like, how did you develop that skill set? Is that just sort of one of those things? You're like, I just enjoy telling stories and this is just the way it comes out as I do it yeah, I think the writing was on the wall. Looking back, for example, I had science projects in elementary and middle school and I would pretend to be an oceanographer on TV or I would be a TV meteorologist. I always loved to communicate science. I found it so interesting and I Always did kind of
have a knack for it. Um, it wasn't until it was around kovat right when kovat was happening I had I just started my PhD and I was going to teach a class a general education class at UCLA on climate change and this was like a big class, like 400 students, and most of them non-majors. So most of them like com
majors, psych majors. And frankly, most of them go into, and I don't know if you have any experience teaching a GE, but most students go into an oceanography class or a climate change class not knowing that it's going to be a lot of math and physics. Right. Right. I'm going to learn about polar bears and whales. And it's like, I Wanted to do a really good job teaching yeah, and so I I started
a lecture series for my friends. And this was the beginning of COVID where everyone was like, doing virtual happy hours. And so I was like, Hey, friends, like, I'm going to teach you about climate change, I'm going to have one lecture a week, it's gonna be 30 or 45 minutes can be informal,
and I'm gonna Yeah. So I practiced teaching first to a general audience because I knew it's so hard when you are deep in the science to remember that most people are not like I, it is the bane of my existence trying to get other scientists and faculty, you know, remember that try and remember a time where you didn't know anything about this and now explain it. Yeah. Now explain it from square one. And so with all of my friends from like every different, you
know, walk of life, I would give these lectures. And that was super enjoyable. So that then morphed into, um, that actually was really fun. And then after I was done with my lectures, all of my friends each gave a lecture on something from their industry, which was, um, but from that, uh, lecture series, I made a newsletter. And so I would do a newsletter every like month or so related to climate change,
oceanographic stuff. Um, I went on two oceanographic cruises, one with the go ship program, which does repeat cruises doing carbon, uh, measurements. So they go on a couple of different routes all around the world. And every like 10 years they measure all the carbonate chemistry. and see how carbon is changing in the ocean because it's sequestering carbon dioxide. So I did that and I did a lot of newsletters when I was
on that cruise because people had so many questions. I was like, great, let me just do a bunch of newsletters while I'm at sea. And I did the same thing. I had another cruise with NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. That one was more mapping focused. Again, I did a bunch of newsletters while I was doing that. But all the while, I was still teaching that climate change class at UCLA. And now in person, but I had so many students tell me like,
page, you should start a tick tock. And I was like, I wasn't even on tick tock. Right? I was like, I don't know. I think I'm too old. Yeah. I didn't even know who's on tick tock. I figured it was like all dancing. And I have a girlfriend who I love so dearly. She makes running content. She was collegiate runner, and we became best friends. And I told her, I was like, Well, actually, I'm thinking about starting a YouTube channel. And she was like, Do not do that. She's like, I'm
on YouTube, YouTube, and I'm on Tick Tock. And let me tell you, no one's gonna see your stuff on YouTube for years, right? You should make a Tick Tock. It's a long game. Yeah, she's like, if you want people to pay attention right now, you should make a Tick Tock. And I was like, Okay, so It was born from there. It's because she did it and then I still wasn't, I still couldn't believe that ocean, I figured oceanography was oversaturated on TikTok. I was like, there's gotta be great ocean people
out there. I wasn't on it, so I didn't know who was doing, but I figured, I was like, ah, so I started a channel actually making some like undergrad college tips and like PhD tips in terms of like, How do you apply to a PhD program? How do you find a good advisor? What kind of workload
can you expect? So I was doing that for about I don't know, half a year And I had like a modest following, I think at like 20,000, 10,000 followers or something, which is still, I know, I know we talk about TikTok being 20,000. It was, it was like cool that a lot of people felt like they really trusted me. Um, Bob, I think the blonde Bob is very endearing. I think people inherently are like, she's not a threat. I honestly believe that. I've had this haircut my whole life. I'm
like, I think this has some power. But yeah, and then I was still doing, but I was doing the separate newsletters about oceanography stuff and then it was one of my dad's, one of my dad's like old frat buddies, who I all consider to be uncles, he sent me an email and he was like, What is the Atlantic Mariana overturning circulation? And what is going on? And I did a whole newsletter on it. And I was like, let me just do the newsletters are super informal. And
so I was like, let me also just film a tick tock. And that tick tock, like blew up, I got like a couple million views. And I was like, Oh, okay. Do you want to hear about it? Yeah, I guess I have the right expertise. And from there, it was, um, so fun, so fun to put the videos together. And it still, it just blew my mind every time that I was like, how are hundreds of thousands or millions of people watching this? I'm so glad they are. Um, but yeah, it
was just like, it just fit very well. And again, a lot of it I think goes back to that teaching experience that I had at the university level where it's like, how do I get these college freshmen that are looking at me like they want to die when I just told them how much physics they need to learn, you know, like these intense equations to understand the Earth. And I'm like, no, stay with me. Like, this is actually really cool. I promise we can get through this.
Let me make an analogy. And from there on out, it was like, yeah, it was it was a good fit. And honestly, it really blew up the last year of my Ph.D., my final year, and it provided such a nice reprieve. At times, because you're right, you're focused on writing at that point. It's just stressful and you know it's going to get done, but you don't feel like you can do it. And, you know, every once in a while I'd be like, what if I make
a TikTok about thermal expansion of water? OK, let me do that, you know, and I'd like take that, you know, take an hour to like dally a little bit, but it ended up being like very motivating and fun for me to do. So yeah, With TikTok, it's almost like a style that people have, right? Some people will have dancing videos. That's probably when first people think about TikTok, they think of dancing videos. But there's others who, there's political TikTok, there's science
TikTok, there's book talk, I think they call it. There's all these different categories. And everybody has, within each category, they have their own style. And lately, like if I go back to your last probably like 30 videos, it's very much like you need to learn about this. Like you need to know, have you heard of this? And it's like that nice hook where you're just like, oh no, I haven't heard of this. I need to know about this. And then you go into a lot of detail in
your stories. Like useful information that
really makes the story interesting. How long did it take for you to realize like, this is like a fun formula for you to to like use, but also a winning formula to in terms of like getting people to view and watch and enjoy Yeah, that, um, it really hit from the first, like from I made a tick tock about, so there was research released on the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation, and that the flow of warm water from the Gulf Stream up to the Arctic region and how it subducts underneath the
North Atlantic. And a report came out about how it's potentially shutting down, how it's very concerning. And I was like, OK, let me make a TikTok on this. If I say Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation, swipe immediately. I was like, OK, no. So I forget what I took a screenshot of the headline that I had seen that it was on like CNN or something. It was like a very dramatic headline. It was like Ocean Circulation May Shut Down and da da da da da. And I started to tick tock like
It's a green screen and my face was on it. And which is like, the way it started was a lot of people's initial reaction, which would be just like, Oh, no, like, I guess I waited a second. Yeah, so I waited a second for people to be able to read the headline. Yeah, which is crazy. And like, you know, if it worked for the article? Yeah, it'll work for my tick tock, right? Like people will be invested. So I read that I was like, Oh, no. And then I was like, Here's what this means. Let's
break down why this is an alarming thing. So that format worked great. And my whole style is talk a little bit, green screen, point to figure, talk, point, show. I've always been a very visual learner, but also too, again, with teaching, I find that as little text as possible. Pictures, like tell a visual story. TikTok is a visual app. So I knew that obviously what I had, what I said had to be engaging, but also I wanted to be able to be like, Look at me, now look at this, now
look at me. And I didn't know at the time it was a winning formula, but after I've grown in popularity, people are like, oh, did you know? Yeah, it's so smart of you to show your face because people like to see your face online because it makes them feel like they know you better. And it's like all these things that I was just doing, just giving these sentence, sentence, sentence. Changing
the pictures. I didn't realize what I was doing was a winning thing to do until I'd made like a couple Good videos, which I enjoyed and I was like, oh This seems to be working. Um, but I will say yeah, the hardest part of my videos is the hook is like, yeah where do I begin because I find everything interesting, but there's so many crazy fascinating stories about the ocean and the atmosphere and our climate that I could tell. But the hook on TikTok, it's like you lose people in the first three
Well, people are just scrolling with their thumb, right? Like, if that, if that. It's almost like half a second. They don't like what they see. If something
on the page doesn't capture them. You know like I've watched videos on just even YouTube shorts where people are like if you zoom in right away then people start to you know that that catches the eye if you Walk into the scene that catches the eye or something pops up that catches the eye Something really has to catch because if not, they're just I'm off to the next video without thinking of the rest, you know Yeah, so that's that's the art because
once I start talking I can tell a lot of stories but Most successful videos the most successful is that I figured out the hook I like knew the way in and it played my cards, right? No not easy to do at all Like and when you start to look at some of your videos like you said to look and you're like I've got some good views on here like there, you know, yeah, I'm looking at them now and your average you're like averaging a At least, you know, in the thousands, sometimes multiple thousands,
like I'm looking at 45, you know, 16, 70. And every once in a while, you just start 2.5 million. You know, you have one to 7.2 million. You know, it's insane to think about. How people like how many people are watching these videos, I And you know the funny thing is, and I tell this to my friends all the time, I've now, I'm now like whatever, a published author. I have like a couple first author papers for my PhD. No one is going to read my dissertation cover to cover, other than me. Millions
of people will watch my TikTok. And for all the academics that are hesitant with science communication, it's like, OK, I understand it's hard teaching old dog new tricks, but I'm going to get maybe 1,000 eyes on my best paper at the end of the year, maybe. If it blows up, but I just like talk to four million people about Atlantic marine overturning circulation, which I never
in my wildest dreams would have thought. And I think also the cool thing about it too, that I definitely don't take for granted is that it's reaching so many people that do not know about the ocean. Like it's so easy to forget. I grew up in Southern California. I've always loved the ocean. I'm in a scientific family, but most of our world, most of the United States does not live. I mean,
well, there's statistics about most of the world. It's like 30% of the world population lives on a coastline, but you know, but
most of us do not know the ocean though. Yeah, exactly like the educational background and I think a lot of scientists Assume prior knowledge or like they've been in their bubble for so long even when it comes to like climate change communication Like obviously it affects everybody but let's not forget a lot of people first of all haven't been in school for a long time Yeah, so you're trying to tell them about Earth's like retaining its long wave radiation. Stop right there. You lost
95% of the population when you said that. Um, so when I see like these views on my videos, I'm like, Oh, this is so cool. And my goal too, is not just to like have people walk, like, obviously it's great to have people watch and people like ocean people will continue to drink the Kool-Aid. But what really gets me is when people are like, Not ocean people, you know, they grew up there like in Indiana or there some landlocked country and they're like This
is so interesting. I never knew this about the ocean that to me is like That's really cool because I could yeah, I could I the people that drink the Kool-Aid drink the Kool-Aid and that's great but that's the crazy thing about TikTok that's like I could reach a random person in random country that just learned something about the ocean and maybe that sparked a little something in them to just be more vigilant of their climate, their environment, the ocean around them like that is
And it is. It's really interesting, especially like it's an opportunity for education. But again, you do it in a very entertaining way. You know, you feel I feel good after I listen to these these episodes, you know, like this. And I know like you're like, oh, that's what I want people to do. But, you know, when you talk about oceans, a lot of the times there's a lot of doom and gloom when we talk about oceans. Right. Like, you know, you can see the big documentaries that have been, you
know, Emmy award winning documentaries. There's a lot of doom and gloom. I mean, I think David Attenborough had the world crying when he put out Blue Planet 2 and that poor sperm whale calf died of plastic pollution What are you doing to us? But when you are able to connect things that are interesting to people. We were talking about this before we pressed record. I was just watching your video on the Resolute Desk in the White House. never would have thought that had an ocean connection to
it. And it's not directly with the ocean, but it's an important part of history, not only American history, but Canadian history, of people trying to find that Northwest Passage. And you get your map fix in there, and you talk about a different map, and you have those. I think it's really good. I think what you're able to do, and this is what Randy Olson has been talking about for years. He's a big science communication guy in marine science.
And it's all about getting people's emotions involved. Getting not just necessarily the bad emotions, like the sad emotions, but getting the curiosity emotion. You got some good humor in there too. You got some funny bits that you do as well. But it's really great that you're able to Communicate that and it's not just straight-up facts. It's here's facts in an interesting way Did you ever think about this or did you know about
this? And I've seen some creators do that, too there's another creator who does a lot about like the world wars and like historical wars and he has this way of like Really getting into it and he always starts did you know about this and did you know about it? It's just like and people like oh, this is really really interesting. I Yeah, yeah, it's cool to do that kind of stuff, but there's a lot of work involved in putting these videos together You can't do this in like five minutes Give
me an average. I know it probably varies. But yeah, how long do you spend? With these is this a Yeah, so This is a great question. So I'll take you through the whole process because now I have like a whole way of doing it. Um, I will Either think of a question or someone will ask me a question. For example, like the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation. Someone will be like, what the heck is that? So I'll
think of a question or someone will ask a question in the comments. I had a really popular one about what is the bottom of the sea floor? How deep is the sand? And I was like, oh, actually, it's not sand. It's dead organic matter. question and then I'll put together like the key. I'll break it down in terms of like what science, what physics and chemistry does a person need to know to appreciate how complex this is. Maybe they need to know about
how organic matter decomposes. Maybe they need to know about how there's no light in the ocean. So I think about like, what are all the key facts that go into truly understanding this? Um, I have to find some decent figures that doesn't take too long. Um, but I'll make one sheet that has all the pictures that I would like to show and I'll just screenshot all the pictures. And then I think about, How am I going to say this? But what takes a long time is thinking of the hook, for
sure. Yeah, and then filming it never takes more than 30 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes. I will say, I have a huge depth of prior knowledge, so there's very little that I really need to research when it comes to true science questions. I do love maritime history and naval history, and I think it's ocean exploration. I think that's a really important and cool way to bring people into oceanography is to help us all appreciate how little we know about the ocean, how long we have tried to
learn about it. So those take a little bit more time, but I live and breathe. I just finished a book about cod. I'm now reading a book about how the US government in the Cold War invested billions into oceanography. I'm always reading things about the oceans to build up the knowledge base and to find like, oh, I should tell people about this. Yeah. So from start to finish, I'll have a couple ideas brewing for
couple weeks at a time. But truthfully, the best ideas and the best videos do come to me in a flash where I'm like, Oh, uh, I need to tell the story right now. For example, I've always been fascinated with how Robert Ballard found the Titanic. Such a cool story. Most people don't know that he was like actually looking for remnants of nuclear submarines that had been lost from cold war. I think that's such a cool story. It's always been in my head, but then like
I didn't know how do I bring people into that? And it was the day before Thanksgiving and I was with my boyfriend's family and they're asking me all these like great questions about oceanography and stuff. And then it just came to me. I was like, Oh, I should just like do this dumb hook where I say that you should talk about this at Thanksgiving. Like I was like, This is what you're going to talk about this Thanksgiving. And that video got like three million views because people
were like, what? And then I'm like, the Titanic sank, right? And so like, yeah, but cover to cover, it'll take anywhere between like,
if it's a brilliant flash, it'll take an hour. If it's Yeah, I can just imagine that Thanksgiving one just like so yeah, you know the Titanic sank Did you guys know this like and then I'll go through the story That's I feel like that's one of the things that you just like that comes out of nowhere Like why would people want Yeah, I'll stay Because if I started if I started my videos being like let me tell you the history of
The discovery of the Titanic like yeah, I'm gonna keep the history nerds, Like, how am I gonna swing this around? Yeah, and do so in an exciting way too. Getting back to your point about my attitude and my videos, I think I find the gloom and doom, although definitely warranted sometimes, right? It is heavy stuff and it's concerning things. I think about this a lot, which is that it's not fear to a certain degree is not a
good motivational tool. And I, so when I was at the second year of my PhD, the first year of my PhD, I took a class that was really interesting as a graduate level class on how true leaders in the environmental or sustainability movements have like, how do they do a good job? Because from a marketing standpoint, climate change got off on a bad foot. The analogy was compared to like the space race. Let's think about the space race for a second. That motivated all of America.
Like the public approval of spending billions of dollars to send a man to space, which like I'm a And it was unheard of at that point. Like it was like, can we really do this? Yeah, Everyone was motivated. I was like, yeah, this is a crazy scientific challenge to guest and public approval widespread. Now I think about that all the time. Like getting people excited is not for nothing. And even, You know, I could paint all of my stuff in a way scarier light.
And even still, some people sometimes people are like, Why are you smiling when you like say all this heavy stuff? But I do think it's like, well, I don't want to, I don't think freaking people out is the answer. I think getting people to appreciate like, No, this is a big problem, but also here's here why the complexity of this are so interesting. And maybe that inspires you to just learn more. I think learning is like the start of actually making change happen.
Yeah. But yeah, I mean, you can't market everything in a positive light. I'm not saying like the positive thing. It's not fun like the space race. But I do go back to that all the time when I'm making my content. I'm like, how do I talk about something that's like a little bit the Atlanta Mariano overturning circulation. That's scary. That would be really freaky if that shut
down. But instead of saying that, I'm going to say, this is a really interesting, complex phenomenon that goes on in our climate, and you should know what it does. Instead of if you want to get it. Instead of just being fearful that somebody's thing is going to stop and the world is going Yes. Yes. Yes. Because I feel like that kind of communication has only gotten more polarized, as with everything, where
it's like, I can't believe you don't care about this. This is so bad. And then the other side being like, well, you know, this isn't our fault. Why are you saying the world is an ending data that I'm like, how do we lower the volume? Yeah, I'd be like, talk about why this is interesting. People can draw their own conclusions and For sure. And especially if you're just educating, here's the process. Here's how it works. And here's what people are saying is slowing
down and what that means. And then you can just explain it a little bit more instead of, I mean, that headline was fearful. I remember that headline coming. It wasn't only on CNN. It Everywhere. Yeah. And that headline seems to come up every once in a while. It's Every time a new study comes out, they're like, let's swipe this
up. scary the crap out of everybody, which again, it's like I, you know, and part of it too is like you can't, I don't believe scientists can be frustrated at people for not having the correct amount of empathy for a problem if they didn't educate people in the first place. Like you can't, you know, you need to meet people in the
middle. And if you're not going to, then I don't think you have a right to be so frustrated because not everyone got a PhD in climate science you know so you need to like meet somewhere in the middle and I think the education is the first step so it's I so enjoy being here at this point where I can like help Well, I'll tell you, we love it. I'm gonna say that from your audience as a representative from your audience, not that
I represent your audience, loves it. And then you can tell just by the views and the consistent views that you're getting and the increased views that you're getting on a regular basis. It's just absolutely wonderful to watch you work, to be able to... you know, talk about science in the way that you do. It's so much fun. Like I said, I'm a
huge, huge fan. And like just hearing your PhD and hearing the enthusiasm that you have for science in general and science for eutrophication and sort of coastal eutrophication, I'm looking forward to seeing what you're able to do and what you're going to be able to do with the next job
that you have. You know, you just finished your PhD like three months And so I'm going to ask the fun questions, like I think Um, I know for a fact that I think my, my skills, you know, most people that know me personally, they're like, so you're going to be a professor, right? Um, like, Oh, so you're going to teach for the rest of your life, which I mean, in a perfect world, if I could just make interesting tech talks, like I'd be so happy doing that. But as of right now, it
doesn't really pay the bills. And I do want to put my efforts to work on a specific project. So for example, I've been really interested in offshore wind. really interested in offshore wind. I think that is the direction. Energy is critical to everybody. We will run out of fossil fuel. How do we find a good way to use ocean as an energy resource without like causing any detrimental impacts? I am so fascinated with that. So for example, like an ideal job I applied for a couple months ago was
offshore wind environmental expert. Like I would love to help you know, site offshore wind farms, I'd love to be there for the full process and understand the oceanography, Even just spatial analysis of how to locate them. Yeah. Yes, exactly. You know, how far can you be from shore? Will the other turbines interact with each other? Do they interact with any Exactly. I don't want to interact with fishing. So those questions fascinate me. I'd love to do something like that. Yeah. That's
where my aim is right now. So currently I'm living in Boulder, Colorado. I loved Southern California, but I spent pretty much my entire life there. I like grew up there. I went to UCSB, I went to UCLA, I've lived in San Diego, and I just wanted to see something new. Boulder, Colorado has the National Renewable Energy Lab, which is the Department of Energy, the U.S. Department of Energy, that's their primary renewable energy research facility. So that is
out here. That's honestly my top choice. I would love, love, love to work there. There's a big NOAA office here, the Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. I'm already in the process for interviewing for a job there. There's the National Center for Atmospheric Research. Yeah, crossing my fingers. So
it's kind of surprising. A lot of people are like, why are you in Colorado as an oceanographer? There's actually a shocking amount of atmospheric and oceanic science that goes on Yeah, and I was just gonna say there's like a big like ocean Proponent there like just in terms of the people I mean, it's very similar to California fine where there's a lot of people who are nature focused You know Rockies hiking that kind of stuff, but also there are a lot of ocean advocates in In Colorado,
so you're not alone like in terms of that. Yeah, let your level of oceanography knowledge might be you might be I'd also do a lot of science communication, and it's been really fun, at least these last two months, to give it all the time I can. But at the same time, I think it'll naturally grow over time. I'm at this interesting point, though, where I'm like, well, Do I grow it more and like how much do I grow it? And
I know there's an audience for it. Um, you know, another like pipe dream or like offshoot life, I would love to like have an ocean show someday on TV or be like a talking head for discovery or, you know, I'd love to continue to like educate people about the ocean on a broader scale. And I do, like similar to my PhD, I'm like, I know that'll come. I know I can make it there. Yes, exactly. I'm manifesting it. But in the meantime, I don't think I have the chops to do only science communication, to
be self-employed. I A Yeah, hey, I get it. It's a long process. It could be a traumatic process, looking at all the stuff that you have to do. A lot of people say it's basically working two jobs in one, maybe even plus that, like even more. You know, it's a lot to handle for anybody, and you did that. Plus, you developed a science communication channel that is blowing up, and it continues to blow up. And I'm
looking forward to seeing what you're up to next. Like, it's going to be fingers crossed for all the opportunities that you're involved with now, and hopefully it continues. And hopefully your enthusiasm for the science communication continues as well, because it's been a pleasure to watch those videos. I enjoy it, and I'm sure the 7 million people that watch your Thank you, yes. Of anything, that is Yeah, I think so. I think that's what it sounds like.
But honestly, Paige, it's been a pleasure to have you on the podcast and to get to know you more. And I look forward to having you back on when you get that job or once you develop the science more and the science communication more.
Yeah, you know once you let people know how they can get a hold of you. There's the Which yeah, just like let them know the handle and how they can look you up Yeah, the handle for the tick-tock is little LIL ocean page or you could look up PhD page II And I also have an Instagram that is the same handle LIL ocean page And I'm starting to put my videos on YouTube Shorts, so you can find me there. And who knows, maybe I'll get bored and actually start making long-form YouTube
videos someday. I'm not sure if I'll ever do that. Maybe a podcast in the future. Part of me wants to, so who knows what Love it. Love it. I can see story time with Paige, ocean story time with Paige. Well, Paige, it's been a pleasure. We're looking forward to seeing what you're up to next. Thank you, Paige, for joining us today on the How to Protect the Ocean podcast to
talk about not only your PhD work, but your science communication work. I think it's really important for scientists to have both, sort of that skill set, using the skills that they have, using their personality to bring out the messaging that they want to bring out. And that's something that Paige does. So again, her handle is at
LilOceanPage, so L-I-L-O-C-E-A-N. Ocean page PA IGE obviously all one word you can go on tick tock you can also go on Instagram to follow her I highly suggest that you do She's gonna be up to some pretty incredible things through her career. It's just she's just scratching the surface literally just dipping a toe in and I can't wait till she dives in and and we get to
hear all about it. So if you have any questions or comments about this episode, please feel free to leave a comment on, if you're watching this on Spotify on the video, or if you're just listening to it, you can leave comments. You can also leave a comment on the YouTube video and you can get ahold of me on Instagram at HowToProtectTheOcean, that's at HowToProtectTheOcean on Instagram, just DM me, I'd love to hear your feedback on this episode and any other episode of
the podcast. feel free to reach out I appreciate Paige reaching out, and I would love to hear from you. Whether you want to be on the podcast or not, because you've got something interesting that you think is interesting, or you just want to give feedback or talk about the ocean, this is where we start that conversation. And we did a great job doing it today. I want to hear from you what you think about the ocean, and what you would like to hear more
about, or what you would like to talk about. Hit me up at HowToProtectTheOcean on Instagram. Thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time. Of course, my name is Andrew Lewin. Have a