How many times have you thought about being at a party, drinking, you know, having a good time, drinking whatever you want to drink, whether it's alcoholic or non-alcoholic, it doesn't really matter. But you're drinking out of a cup and you look down at that cup and it's a plastic cup. It could be like a red cup, could be a blue cup, could be a yellow cup. Sometimes you're playing beer pong or some sort of beer pong, whether it's alcoholic or
non-alcoholic, it doesn't matter. Or you're playing all these games with it, but you realize that those cups are not really good for the environment. They're plastic, they're single use, and they'll probably get thrown out and you'll never see it again. and it probably not getting, it's probably not getting recycled like you would normally think it would get recycled. It's
probably just getting thrown out and going into a landfill. Not good for the environment, not good in the production process as it's oil-based and petroleum-based, and so you just think about that. But all you're doing is really you're at a party, so why do you have to be depressed and think about this? Wouldn't it be better if you had a cup that actually was compostable, like fully compostable, and
you don't have to worry about that? Well, I'm telling you right now that there's a cup available, and it's not only better for you, but it's better for all. And we are here to talk to Regan Kelly, who works for Better for All, and she's here to talk about the cups, that journey to making this cup that's fully compostable, and what it means for the environment, and what it means for business in the future. We're going
to talk about that on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Let's start the show. Hey everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Loon, and this is a podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by taking action. And on today's episode, we're gonna be talking about taking action,
and that is how someone can create a business. that is Better For All. That's right, it's called Better For All. You can go to betterforall.co, C-O, or you can go to betterforall.shop to be able to take a look and buy these cups that are fully compostable. That's it, they are very good for the environment. You can drink at them, you can play beer pong with them, or some kind of beer pong with them, and you
can just have them. You can see them at festivals, you can see them maybe in the future at concert venues or sporting events. they could be everywhere, and Regan Kelly is here to talk about the journey to create this cup, and why it's so important that we have them in our, in existence, and sort of in our supply chain, and how hard it was to create it, and, and the challenges that she had to face, and the challenges she overcame to
be able to get this in production. And she talks about how it was in production of a recent music festival called the Tortuga Festival down in Florida, and how that went and what people were looking for and who they partnered with and everything. It's a great interview. I can't wait for you to be able to hear this interview because I think we need to see more businesses that are out there promoting more sustainable products. And it's just a great way of finding out how people are marketing these
types of products. So here's the interview with Reg and Kelly from Better For All. Enjoy and I will talk to you after. Hey Reagan, welcome to the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk about compostable That is awesome. I have to admit, I never thought I would
be so excited to talk about compostable cups. It's not something that comes on the top of your mind, but I'll have to tell you, seeing so many plastic cups that are just being thrown out after use, after a one-time use, or they're being cracked or things like that drives me insane. So when I came across you and I came across your site, I was like, We have to talk about this. This is important. You know, someone said, Hey, I'm going to stand up to the red K cups and I'm going to say, you
know what? Enough is enough. We're going to go and we're going to, we're going to battle this and we're going to provide a better solution, which I love. And I'm sure a lot of the audience members here are going to love it as well. So we're going to get into all that. But first I want to get to know you a little bit, Reagan, and what led you into this journey of entrepreneurism. Can you just let us know who
Yes. My name is Regan Kelly. I am a product lead and messaging, I guess, in charge of messaging at Better For All, which is a California company. We're family owned and founded, run out of Pasadena, California. And all you With the battle with cups these days and seeing how many people use cups, it seems like a pretty viable business to just have, look, we supply cups. That's what if you want cups, you come to us. That's what we do. How did it all start? How did this
Yeah. So, um, in 2018, um, I think, uh, all us, our family, along with pretty much everyone else in the United States started to become keenly aware of how much plastic pollution we were dumping, um, in particular into the ocean. But I think for some reason, um, you know, part of it was that China stopped, you know, accepting our plastic, uh, recyclables, right. And we were suddenly facing these
mountains of trash we were creating. Um, I had always been really obsessed with the environment and recycling and, you know, I was just really known for nerding out on that stuff. Um, uh, so I was kind of, that was my torch, if you like. And, um, as a family, we were living all in the same city for the first time in decades. And we were looking for something to do together. We have young kids and, uh, we were thinking about a restaurant play, went to a
restaurant show and saw our first. plant-based compostable forks, actually. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, we should definitely incorporate these. Cause I was really like, I kept thinking with restaurants, you're going to get takeaway with takeaway, you're going to get trash. And it was giving me a headache. Um, and my stepfather was like, what if we made this the business? And so we just set off to learn everything we could about the world of compostable materials and plant-based
materials. I learned that plastics were made out of oil. Um, and that kind You know, this whole problem we're looking at is one industry. So, um, you know, first we started with the familiar products and materials, PLA and, uh, bags. We were, we took on apparel bags and all kinds of sort of things that normally get characterized as trash and packaging pretty
quickly. And we were having a really hard time finding a foothold and really finding a way for people to sink their teeth into the concept and decided in 2020 to zero in on a product that people already felt a connection to. And the cup really just jumped out at us as one, something that hadn't really been taken on in terms of sustainability, right? Yes, people were starting to use reusable bottles. Definitely. There were some really interesting cup options out there. Most
of them unfortunately made from petroleum plastic, but they were reusable. I was loving that. Um, but none of the big, like sort of takeout companies, et cetera, you know who you are or, uh, to really like address the problem. Um, and so, um, I had been working with PLA. I had thought to myself. At the time I thought to myself, if we go with PLA one, um, we're facing an uphill battle because PLA is commercially compostable
and that's kind of the only way you can safely break it down. Um, and you know, in the U S there's just not a lot of infrastructure in place yet. So I had been doing a lot of research into different materials and I had discovered this material called PHA. At the time, the only story anecdote I could hear, find about it was about, you know, this test where people had made beach choice at a PHA, and they had fully biodegraded in the sand. And I thought, Oh,
my God, that's so amazing, right? Because, of course, I was also doing a ton of reading about the five gyres and the ocean waste and the ocean cleanup was just getting underway. This was just like this kind of collision of things happening. And so I started calling all the PHA producers in the world, and having conversations with them, there were only about five. And we found one. It's a Japanese company called Monica, but it's headquartered, it's
biopolymers division is headquartered in Houston. So that seemed great. It was also to 22 2020. And we all know what happened in 2020. So I had been flying back and forth to China, and I couldn't anymore. So decided to pivot development to the United States. And, um, and so Kanika was really interested. They were, they were very cool.
They they're huge, like a $5 billion Japanese company, but they were interested in partnering with a small family startup and like promoting our sort of like technical struggle with figuring out how to make a cup So this was like starting from scratch. Like you didn't look like another formula. It's like, help me make this formula so that when That's well, so they did have, they had PHA. So PHA is a, is a naturally occurring substance. It
exists in the world around us, right? It's when it was first discovered in like 1920, it was discovered by a soil scientist. Um, it's a, product of cellular metabolism. Um, it's almost like body fat, but at a microscopic level. So it's nutrients that are sort of packaged for later. And you know, these people are way more brilliant than I am, but they saw the potential in the chemical structure, the molecular structure of
PHP, PHA. So it limped along, you know, petroleum plastics were gaining a lot of traction. They were super easy to work with. Um, And it just, it just kind of like languished, I think, until the end of the 20th century. And then a couple of companies seeing the plastic pollution problem growing and the problems with recycling, really addressing it. Um, they started to develop PLA in the United States and then PHA and a few other locations. Um,
and so PHA at this point is about 30 years old. Um, but it is more expensive to develop than, or to make at this point, then, uh, petroleum byproducts. So a big part of that is just, you know, market adoption. You need to have like enough people buying this stuff to reduce prices and create efficiencies. Um, but anyway. And then you also just needed like movement in the market. Like we have to make a change. Right. And you know, that like for the last 20 years, there's been a lot of debate about
whether climate change is even happening. So we So, yeah. So anyway, um, so when, when I went to Conaca, they did have a PHA, they call it PHBH. That's kind of this particular molecular structure and. It was, um, I could make a cup out of it. So I did make a cup. I was working with a small factory in Portland and managed to make a cup. It was too fragile. And
so Konica went back to the drawing board and worked on the formula. And now we have a cup that is flexible, not too fragile, um, and can completely and safely compost in your home composter or in commercial composter.
And so for a commercial composter, would that be something like so he I live in Ontario, we put our stuff out for composting, like for the garbage, people to pick it up, that they would take it to a commercial composter is that what is just a larger size composter Yeah, so typically, the difference between commercial composting and home composting is the temperature. Right. So when you're in a commercial compost setup, you have a very specific. So different soil microbes thrive in
different temperatures and moisture levels. So commercial composters know exactly what microbial community they want to foster. They're going to eat and break down everything really fast. So they Constantly regulate and measure the temperature and the moisture level of the of
the compost pile, right? They turn it a certain rate. They also are responsible for Putting it through a process at the end that will completely kill any kind of bacteria or something that could make the soil Yeah, I guess not not great for farming and for gardening at home you just you know, I mean I have a compass I definitely not measuring and regulating. Right.
Right. So you kind of put everything in and you turn it and you know, but you go away for this, you know, for two weeks, and you come back and it's dry and right. So you need a product that is delicious to a much broader array of microbes that that thrive in different temperatures and different types of soil and different moisture levels. So that's why PHA is so awesome. Because it is very friendly to a
Right. Okay. So now let's, let's, I like how we're looking at sort of the composure and what it consists of, what this cup consists of. How long did it take you to develop it from, you know, you know, right from the beginning all Yeah. So I would say that we really just fully commercialized, um, in the last, seven months, eight months. So it's taken about almost six years to... It's taken really almost four years to get us here. The first two years we're making other things. And the good
news is I know how to make other things. So the sleeves, the cups come in are also certified home compostable. But the cups themselves, because you need them to be able to withstand all kinds of wear and tear, travel. you know, sitting at a bar, getting thrown around, you know, so we just had our first kind of sizable use case, um, at the Tortuga festival in Florida in April. Um, so, you know, we had about 104, we delivered 170,000 cups. I think about 140,000 cups just were used on the beach for
three days in the sun and wow. Carried up on stage and, you know, people had really cool little like, I mean, festival goers are very clever, right? Yeah. So I saw all kinds of interesting like belts devices where they almost like a tool belt where they have the cup slotted in and okay, and they did well, you know, and then yeah, they're so different looking. They're the natural PHA color. They were easy for festival goers to know where to put them. So they put them in the compost bin,
they have really high diversion rates. And then they were That's amazing. Now, I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, we mentioned it right before recording, where you're going up battling against the single-use red cups that people have or blue cups, the ones that people drink at a keg or maybe even at a festival probably in the past or even continues at different festivals. That's a challenge to get over because they almost have their own brand in themselves. Everybody
knows that they're wasteful. Everybody knows that they're going to use them. They'll crack at some point. They'll throw them out in the garbage. Maybe they'll put them in the recycling. I don't even know if they're fully recyclable at this point. Probably not as you shake your head. But they have their own brand. People look for the red cups or the blue cups or whatever cups they come in. You've got the beer pong game where it's like a
big thing. And people look for that. How do you carve out a space in the market? Are you promoting that this is good for the environment? Is that the messaging around it? Or is it just, do you want a cup that's going to last? Is it just based on what it is? Because I know different companies who have built a sustainable product have gone different paths. And it changes each for each company is
unique to each company. So just curious, what was your messaging Yeah, so I think, you know, we have to we have a number of different markets that we're kind of reaching out to, I would say, on the business to business side. You know, you have businesses that are either being regulated, you know, policies are requiring them to move away from single use plastic. They
just care and they want to do something different. Or you have festivals that are really like connected to the environments that the festivals are held in and they know what the impact is, how much trash is generated in three short days. So they're looking, you know, they're really looking for something better. Um, so with them, it's a different conversation. It's really like why our cup versus something else. I would say that, you know, I have this dream of having
a conversion of our cup. That's a bit more substantial for reusable systems. I mean, reuse systems haven't quite really caught up yet. Um, I don't, you know, I think we're going to figure it out eventually, but right now you have, reuse systems, but they're implementing like pretty toxic petroleum plastic cups. So for me, you know, and I really passionately believe this, like we need to move away from petroleum plastic everywhere
that has a single use or limited use application. Obviously like, you know, there's a lot of places where we have plastics that last for decades, the way they're supposed to. That's not what I'm talking about. When you have something that's potentially going to have a use life of 10 minutes or even months, like you don't want to use something that's got such a negative impact on the environment.
It's also, you know, a lot of these plastics have really pretty, pretty harmful chemicals that leach out of them. And then also when they break down, they can create microplastics. And I know because you're so knowledgeable about the ocean, you know exactly what that's doing to our, to Even our health too, right? Like, we're seeing it now it's in the air and it's in our lungs and it's in our blood. And we're seeing the
effects of that over long terms. Yeah. I think we're just starting to scratch the I a million percent agree with you. So, um, so anyway, so I could see our material, Our cup being a really beautiful like component of a reuse system. Now you have the cups being reused and recirculated in a closed loop environment like a festival. On the direct to consumer side, we just launched a better for all shop, dot shop, which is, you know, send, you know, we
ship sleeves directly to consumers. And what I see there is, you know, early adopter sort of smart shoppers going out and looking for new materials. And in those cases, typically, like if they're ordering, they're ordering for a party, it looks like. Yeah, there's some small businesses, I can see that are ordering for say, if they have, you You can wash and reuse our cups. They are, this material is high heat tolerant to the boiling point of water, which is a unique, you know, so like PLA
and a number of plastics would melt in the same temperature. So it's an interesting material. Um, but the cup is relatively thin walls because we needed it to be as home compostable spot. Like I wanted it to biodegrade in a short period as possible. Yeah, that's true. It also keeps the price point down. I mean, if you have tons of
Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah, that's true, too. So it's really so you have the sort of the business to business where you can do festivals, you can do conference centers, maybe you can do universities and things like that where you can have those cups for anywhere that they would use that. And that would be like you said, we're
looking at hundreds of thousands of cups being used at a festival. Obviously that makes it good for revenue but also for usage and I can just imagine how much less plastic they have to deal with instead of using just a plastic cup. Obviously, better messaging for the festival. They can say, hey, isn't it great that we have these cups? We don't have to worry about it. What was their reaction that there's a Tortuga Festival?
What was their reaction afterwards? Or did they kind of promote the cups in any kind of way to just be like, hey, we're doing something different. We're trying our best to not put out pollution. Because I have to admit, I'm thinking of, There was a documentary a while ago about, oh, what's the, oh, it was a festival. Oh God, I can't remember, I can't remember. Glastonbury. No, no, Woodstock too. The second Woodstock in the 90s and how much plastic and garbage was left. Like, I mean, you
know that one, Regan, like that was disgusting. And it even got to the point where it was unsanitary how much stuff was around. But festivals must love this, because a lot of the people who go to festivals are a little bit more earthy. you know, like the, the, the, the, you get the quote unquote hippies of the world who go there, they want to be good for the environment. They're kind of camping out anyway at a lot of the places. And so you want to kind
of say, Hey, this is good. You're not going to be impacting the environment with that. What was the festivals reaction like throughout the festival about the So, yeah, so, um, I would say I'll, I'll answer that question in three parts. Um, one, it was the festival producers, which, um, so live nation is the sort of umbrella producer, but Rock the Ocean is the non-profit producer of Tortuga, and all of the funds that they raise go to ocean conservation issues.
So they were looking for our cup because of the marine degradability of PEJs, right? And so they were searching, they were already using compostables, but they were really worried about the materials ending up in the ocean because it's right on the beach, right? So they tracked us down through my website and then emailed me, asked me some questions. I sent them some samples and they took them directly to their composter and said, you know, yes or no. And the composter renewable
is their name. They're also in Fort Lauderdale. They said, please, please take these cups. What was interesting is the reason they wanted the cups was because they were so different looking than PLA or plastic cups. Part of the issue with PLA is they look so much like plastic that it's really hard for composters to sort them out, right? So they don't know, is this contamination? Sorting is a huge part of waste management. It is. I've learned so
much about waste management. Yeah. So they said, please take these cups from a sorting perspective, you know, and they looked at our certifications and were like, okay, these will
be fine. Yeah, during the festival, they were, they had a, like a, I guess, a booth on the Conservation Pavilion and people came, you know, attendees came through and they chatted to them about the cups and we got some really nice, what I can see, and I know this would be true for me if I was at a festival, is, you know, you come to a festival to enjoy, to just completely disconnect from your daily life and immerse yourself in music. You're with other people who love the same thing
you do. And there's so much potential, I think. for concert promoters to just add to the joy, right? By helping people. I mean, I don't think anyone who went to Woodstock wanted to like wade through piles of their own trash, right? That was not on their freaking bill, right?
So I think, you know, there's a huge, like, right. So just recently, I think like a week and a half ago, Live Nation, Warner Brothers Music, And then a whole bunch of different artists with MIT Environmental Initiative, I think it's called, just announced that they're bringing together a bunch of people across all levels of the music industry and the live event industry to figure out the best way to lower climate emissions in relation to live
events, but also like, how do we find the best materials? How do we do better? like preserve the planet and the people on it. So I Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And especially like getting in with, you know, companies like, you know, that put on festivals that put on music, you know, conference centers and stuff like that. You feel like it's a, it's a, it's a win win situation, right? You just, you know, you just have to package it properly and make sure that it works. Like the cup works.
It does its function. It has to work. It has to work. Now here's a question, you know, we're seeing a lot of, now I'm not sure where the US is on this, I've seen it in certain places, but like Canada, where I live, you know, the government is trying to crack down on single-use plastic and there are, like right now, there are six plastics that are banned from being used and they're slowly phasing those out. It's being
held up in court with a decision right now. That's a different episode to deal with because all the plastic companies and the fossil fuel companies are trying to fight it. But there are six single-use plastics that you cannot use. And a lot of it has to do with plastic cutlery and takeout items
and things like that. With that said, you know, restaurants are moving towards and, and, you know, like the takeout, the better takeout contains, you're already starting to see it, you know, you're starting to see better cut, like the, the single use cutlery is, is becoming more sustainable. Do you see an option for moving into our outside of the US where companies are having that foresight or the governments are trying to kind of not push, but just, you know, nudge the alternative sources
Yes, for sure. I mean, definitely North America is not really an issue for us. Um, I would say, you know, we get a lot of interest from Europe and some of the island nations and even as far as India. Um, but you know, not right now. Like that's just, I don't think it makes any sense. You'd have to be manufacturing close to the point of consumption just to make sense from an emissions perspective, I believe. But, um, but yeah, North America for sure. Um,
I'm so curious to see what happens in Canada. I mean, we're so far from anything like that. I mean, businesses have to struggle with whatever policies are in place in their state, in their municipality, right in their city, um, and just figure it out piecemeal from what I can tell. Um, you know, we, in California, of course, we have a little bit more progressive legislation. Some would say. Um, but you know,
it's still all over the place. Like it's whoever, you know, was active and engaged with the process of writing the policy at the time and whatever their beliefs were. Um, you know, I have my, I don't know, there's probably some really interesting work being done on like, what will the impact, would the impact be if we took all single use plastics and turned it into paper? I mean, that's got, that
would, I don't know how many trees that would be. I mean, just look at the impact of toilet paper on forests, right? So I don't know. I think there needs to be a centralized conversation about what the viable alternative materials are. So for example, there's a lot of interest in seaweed. Seaweed plastics, I'm sure you've heard.
I know for sure that at least one of the seaweed companies that are making products right now and at a very small scale, um, are using PHA as a blend because they, you know, it's not easy to just take a, take a, you know, a piece of seaweed and turn it into a viable and commercial commercial product. So I think that PHA has a long way to go in terms of promoting itself as a viable alternative. And yeah, you're absolutely right.
The plastics. Lobbyists are well-funded and you know, it's just gonna be an ongoing battle But I just you know, we're I think we're gonna pull it off. Absolutely 100% 100% It's exactly well and I think a lot of the things to you know one of the messages what's in the message that could come out of this of using and even for festivals or businesses is the amount of sort of their footprint, the reduction of their footprint by using non-plastic
items. I think I saw a stat recently and 20 to 30 percent of fossil fuel like petroleum and oil goes into creating plastics. So if we're trying to reduce the dependency on fossil fuels, we have to reduce our dependency on plastics. Like you said, we have a long way to go because it seems like every one of our plastics, bottles, containers, things like that, if they're single-use, they're pretty much plastic. We've moved away from glass a long time ago. Now we're into plastics. It's
cheaper to make. It's great for the companies. They don't want to really move away from it. It's going to need a lot of government regulation,
however. I feel like the companies who are progressive and who have the same values of, look, if we're going to use these things and there's an alternative that's affordable, that's available, that we can use on mass scale if we're conference centers or music festivals or concert halls and things like that, we can start to move the needle and companies can come out and just be like, hey, not only did we reduce the amount of trash, but we reduced our footprint by however many tons of carbon
dioxide, greenhouse gas emissions. And I think that is a huge thing. And to be honest, most people, when they go to these venues, they may not care. Who knows? They may not care. But as long as it works, that's fine. And then the companies can promote their sustainability and just be like, we're doing our best. We're trying to figure this out. And if we know it works, and it builds on referrals and things like that, and the messaging that you guys provide, Then it's then it's perfect. So
I think it's I think it's great now. You've done a lot of work on Building this these cups right like this product, you know, I think on the I just like checking on your website I think you have like an 8 ounce and a 6 ounce cup. Is that like for like for? Customer Yeah, so we have an 8 ounce and we have a 16 ounce Okay, and we have a 20. Oh, yeah 20 22 ounce pilot So that one's not on the website yet, but I send it off as a
sample just to gauge interest. It was initially specifically for stadiums because that's a pretty large for but yeah, right. But yeah, so the 16 is kind of your 1618 was brimful. That's your classic red party cup size. Yeah. And then eight ounce. It's a seven nine ounce. It's like perfect for wine, water, etc. We actually have a lot of I would say direct to consumer, there's more interest in the eight outs than in the 16, which is interesting. It could just be kind of who's, who's finding out
about it and purchasing at this point. Right. Um, yeah, I mean, so back to your, I was just thinking about, you had asked a marketing question earlier and I would say an interesting thing that's emerging as I feel like, um, and this may just be, you know, I have, I work with this wonderful group of content creators in Florida and, um, you know, one of them's always saying, you know, everything's connected, right? And it's like, just remember, everything's connected.
And I think that's something that, you know, it might be just dawning on a lot of people. You know, when you think about, I think I was thinking about your podcast, and I also follow you on LinkedIn. And I remember when Google Earth first came out, and when they, when you would zoom in on parts of the world that were just ocean, They were just painted blue pixels. They didn't even bother showing
you the actual ocean in that. And I thought, yeah, I think we didn't think of the ocean or conceive of it as a habitat, like a place that all of these things were living, right?
And funny story about that is it didn't happen until Dr. Sylvia Earle started to work with Google Earth because they presented in front of her and they said what do you think you'd like this Google Earth and it you're right it was just Earth like it was just land on the planet and the rest was blue like there was no 3d imaging there was no diving into the ocean like you can do now and she said and they asked her what do you think and they and she said look this is wonderful like this
is great like the map is going to change mapping it's going to change navigation all this kind of stuff but she's like But what about why call it Google Earth? And it's like, what do you mean? It's like, it should be called Google Ocean because our planet is a planet of oceans, you know, over 70%. And they were like, oh, and she's like, why don't you start putting the features of the ocean in the ocean? Like where you have like you have all this. like 70% of that
globe is nothing right now. And that's how Google, in a way, that's how Google Ocean was formed. And now we start to see, like now, I don't even know what the education around is and how many people know, but you can dive underneath the surface. You can look at monuments and things like that and marine protected areas. all this wonder, canyons and seamounts and things like that. So, you know, that's how it progresses. It's people letting
people know. So, I can just imagine too, going back to these cups is, you know, you're at a festival and you're like, wow, this is great. Like, you're probably looking at it, it's different than your normal cups you get probably at festivals. You're starting to, I'm sure the conversation happened with, you know, hundreds of thousands of people that were at this conference or at this festival. And people are talking about like, I wonder what the
benefit is. And then if they got to know what the benefit is, then they're like, well, this is great. Like, this is really nice to see this kind of stuff. It makes you feel better about yourself that, you know, there are companies out there who are trying to do good. And it doesn't affect whether you're having a good time or you're not having a good time. You know what I mean? Like that, you're still getting your water, your juice, whatever else you decide to consume at a a festival, right?
But it's the awareness of it. And I think that's the big thing. It's why I started this podcast in the first place was to make people aware of what's happening in the ocean. And part of that is to like, how do we, you know, it's tough to find sustainable items. You know, there aren't many reasons. We're starting to see more and more resources of people coming out, you know, with, you know, like just sort of a resource of where you can
find certain things. But this one is great because it really battles the plastic alternative of what we're used to. And I'm looking forward to seeing this grow. Now, I know this is all about cups, but the company is better for all. So are there plans in the distant future of coming out potentially with other types of Yeah, well, so I would say initially, we're going to focus on cups because you could go all the way down to, you
know, sample cups for trade shows. Oh, yeah. grocery stores and dose cups, scoops for laundry, like there's so many different so cup applications, right? That could use to be made out of something a little And then, um, you know, and then we, we also are looking at different manufacturing methods. So right at the moment we use a highly efficient manufacturing method, but that can't, you know, the, the, the wall thickness can't go any
thinner than it currently is. If you wanted to make a super lightweight cup that could go say on an airplane or something, um, you would want to use a different manufacturing method that we're just kind of the, the compound needs to be modified in certain ways so that it can take that kind of, yeah, the pressures, right, that are applied to the product so that it doesn't just start to biodegrade in production. And then yeah, and then there's, you know, there's a pet project that
I started working on seriously for a while. And then we put it to one side because it's, it's just, a completely different product. But it's got the same use case in its water bags. I don't know if you've heard of them. But actually, like some huge percentage of the world's population consumes I was actually on an airplane recently, and someone walked up with a Ziploc and sat next to me. And it had water in it. And I was like, Oh my God, he's drinking water out of those.
In some cases they stick a straw on the top and in other cases they bite the bottom of the corner off and drink it. It's considered sustainable to some degree because it's lighter weight, it's less plastic than a bottle. There are these machines, they're called form, fill, and seal machines, and they take these huge, thick, plastic rolls, and they roll them down, and they seal them off, and about 500 milliliters of water is dropped in, and they seal off the
top. Especially in Africa, they get dropped off on street corners and in small markets, and people buy maybe 10 at a time. They bite off the corner, drink the water, and throw the bag. And the bags are filling the bays. They're just a huge problem on the beaches and in the bays. So we of course were like, Oh, we should do, you know, this was back when we were really focusing on film.
And, um, like this would be the most amazing thing ever, but you do need a film that can like sustain 130 and upwards degree heat in, you know, shipping containers and on the ground, right in Africa. Um, And that can be bounced around on a truck and can be frozen and frosted. So I'm not there yet. But I not
there yet. I like that. I have this like, you know, it's Yeah, I have a little brain worm Now, you know, a lot of this time, it takes time, right, to develop these products, because it's almost like you're starting it from scratch for every single Evo product. And you would think, like, once you make one cup, other cups would be the same. But you're right, it's very different, depending on how they're shipped, depending
on how they're contained in another container. You know, right now, for some reason, on the top of my head, I'm thinking, you know, in a protein like a protein powder container. There are the little scoops and things like that. You mentioned scoops. And I would imagine like that gets to a certain temperature and that, you know, that gets banged around a little bit, maybe a little bit more protected because of the powder, but still, you know, you want to make sure
there's so many applications, but it takes time to develop. And this could be like, as you said, it could be, you know, three, four years where it takes time just to develop. you must have
to have a lot of patience to be able to develop these things. Even just the sort of the use case you're using right now with the bags of water, you're probably like, oh, we could help so many people and so many like, you know, with the oceans and the bays and things like that, we can really protect that, but you're still, you know, you're not there. So how do you deal with that, the I'm a creative, just a born creative. So I don't have a
problem with patients. I would say that the issue is funding. You know, you know, yeah, but like, it's, you know, funding. First of all, you need a lot of funding to do development. You need a lot of buy-in from, um, you know, so we've had like really great support from Konica and we have a, you know, a manufacturer for the last year and a half that got us to commercial, um, American conglomerate called Westfall Technic. They also are helping us like you need people who. One, they're
committed to the same idea you are. They want to see it
happen. They believe in the concept. Because you go through some and it's not like that, you know They're so used to working with class that work with plastic for a hundred years All the equipment is built for plastic the process engineers have been doing you know, they use this they use PFAS You know what PFAS are they spray Teflon on things to make them release from the molds and I'm like no way Examine everybody's process and then bum them out by telling them
they can't use any of the tricks they've come up with. Everything has to be changed. And then that needs to be controlled. And so you need your manufacturer to buy in, and then you need your customer to buy in, you need, and then you need so that time takes money. And it takes a while to get a product that's going to sell, you know, at the volumes that would get you into the black and you start seeing a little profit. Investors want a five times return in a short amount of time. Of course. So
you need investors that are also bought in. So yeah, so we're currently in the process of looking for our next round of investment. So that would be why this is on my mind. But yeah, so patience is one tiny part of it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I'll tell you, Reagan, this is I love I
love this business. I love this idea, you know, and I just I love, you know, the saying, like if you go to better for all dot shop and if you want to buy individually, you know, for for my audience members, I just love how it says right off the bat, make your event better for all. I was trying to see how it would tie in betterforall.co or betterforall.shop and I'm like now I see it. It's making better for all by just having these cups and using these cups and it makes it so much
better. It makes me feel better knowing that products like this are out there and they're growing. And I can't wait to see it at my next event that I attend, or if I'm not at an event, I'm gonna be like, you know what you should have? You should have these cups, because I mean, they're much better. So I'm definitely gonna be promoting it locally here and on the podcast. But yeah, this is wonderful. Really love the fact that you spent the time with us to explain the business, the innovation
that goes into it. And I wanna thank you for the dedication, the time that you and your family have put into to making our world better for all. It's really great. So thank you so much for coming on the podcast. And we'd love to You too. Thank you, Reagan, for joining us here on the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. It's a great community to be a part of, and I'm glad you are now a part of it, Reagan, to be able to say, hey, you
know what? We have this product that's good for the environment. You can use it. It's great
to use. It's easy to use. It's a cup. Let's think about it. We need more products like this where everyday items that we get to use, whether it be at a festival, a sports venue, concert venue, maybe out you're having a picnic and you don't want to break any glasses or have all reusable you know drinks or containers and you just want to have these ones and you know they're fully compostable just makes it easy you don't have to think about it makes it easy they're well they're well
priced and they compete with all the other non-sustainable items and so why not have this and i just think it's wonderful to be able to have this in circulation available for people to use at you know high quantities if they need it like you know reagan was talking about it i think it was like 140 000 cups were used unreal that's available to us in such big venues that are now not going to cause a lot of garbage because of those cups.
And I'm looking forward to seeing how this company evolves and other types of innovative ways of using cups in any type of containers that you need to scoop or you need to drink liquids out of or very
different usages. I'm dot shop better for all dot shop take a look at what's available and i highly recommend that you buy a sleeve for two you know or three or four for your next event it's always great it's always wonderful to be able to have something that is sustainable i mean let's be honest that's why you're here if you want to know how to protect the ocean use these Compostable Cups from Better For All. That's it for today's episode. I
really want to thank you for joining us. If you want to join the community, I'm creating an app. I'm in the midst of like talking back and forth to the creators and I've got some some prints I'm going to put out like some some mock-ups I'm going to put out what it's going to look like but it's a community app. I want people to be all on the same
device like the same app where you can interact with each other. We can have you know, AMAs, Ask Me Anything, or have, you know, scientists and business leaders on that are making sustainable items, so you can ask questions to them. And it's a wonderful, provide resources of where you can get these great materials and great products and sustainable products. I want to just basically have it all there. It'll
be free to join. There'll be other, you know, products later on where there might be services or anything else that I provide that might be a little, you know, that'll be premium, but for the most part, it'll be free. All you have to do right now is just go and sign up for any kind of updates, and when it gets released, you'll have access to that app. It's speakupforblue.com forward slash ocean app. That's speakupforblue.com forward slash ocean app.
I want to thank you for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Have