Have you ever looked at those videos on social media by 4oceans and seen that they are able to clean up a lot of plastic in a very short amount of time or in a long time or they clean up plastic in a river where it's like all of a sudden the river's clean but it was full of plastic before that and you wonder how do they do that? How do they actually create a business and an organization that can do this all
over the world? Well, I'm very happy to announce that I have one of the co-founders and CEOs of Four Oceans, Alex Schultz, on the podcast talking about sort of the nuts and bolts of Four Oceans, how it started, how it's evolved, and how it actually cleaned up 40 million pounds of plastic. We're going to talk about Four Oceans on this episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Let's start the show. Hey
everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm your host Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, what you can do to live for a better ocean by taking action. And action is what we're going to be talking about today,
because Alex Schultz is here. He's from Four Oceans. He's the co-founder and leads this organization and company to being able to clean up 40 million pounds of plastic in the ocean. Now,
if you think about that, that is a lot. of weight that's incredible and you know to think about in eight years this company has has been around it's taken the world by storm you know it grew rapidly through viral videos it continues to grow through social media it continues to do amazing things and what i love about this organization is it's not just like Slowly like, you know put together a little bit by little bit just contracts here and there they build
out offices They build out infrastructure in all the different countries that they live So it's not just people in North America going around the world cleaning up plastics as they hire boat captains and crews from places like Bali in Indonesia or Haiti or different places in the Caribbean, anywhere that they work, they actually have infrastructure there. They actually have people working for them that
are getting livable wages, full-time livable wages. You don't see that a lot in non-profit organizations, in marine biology, in marine conservation at all, or in for-profit companies for that matter. I love the fact that Four Oceans invests in its staff. and the way they've built their company, the way they've cleaned up the ocean, and the way they understand that, you know, cleanup is just one aspect and more needs to be done, and
they're partnering with different organizations to get more done. But the awareness campaign that they've run just through their actions, Absolutely amazing. And when you talk about action, when you talk about somebody saying, hey, you know what, we should be like cleaning up this, this stuff on the ground, like the way their origin story started, you'll hear it in
a minute, but essentially a bunch of guys go surfing. And they look around the ocean, they see all this plastic coming up on the shore, like all the ton of plastic coming up on the shore. And this is we got to do something about this. And to sort of put that into practice. by starting off by selling bracelets and cleaning up the ocean boat by boat and where they are now. Unreal story. It's a story that should be a Netflix documentary because it's something that
we all need to see and to have hope. that we could see more companies and more organizations doing this. And now they're working with companies to be able to scale that and be able to help them fund more stuff. It's unreal, unreal. Last thing I'm gonna say, love the fact that they also build the infrastructure on land, the warehouses to sort, grind down, cut down all the different plastic that's in there and being able to find places to put
it. And whether it's being reused, whether it's being recycled, whether it goes to a proper landfill and stored properly, I love that aspect. So here is none other than Alex Schultz of Four Oceans talking about Four Oceans, the origin story and the evolution. And it's quite the story. So stay tuned, and I will talk to you after. Hey, Alex. Welcome to the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk about four oceans and oceans plastics? I'm ready, let's do it.
I'm looking forward to it. We're going to talk a lot about the origin story of Four Oceans and even how you got into the business of cleaning up plastics and how the growth went from this idea to what it is now, which is an international company and non-profit and charity where you're cleaning up oceans all over the place, all over the world. And that is absolutely amazing to see that grow. And so we're going to talk all about
that. And we're going to talk about some of the challenges you guys face on a day-to-day basis, because it can't be easy work. I know hauling out plastics is not easy. So we're going to talk all about that. Before we get to all of that wonderful stuff, Alice, why don't you just let the audience know who Sure, sure. So Andrew, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it and looking forward to diving in. So my name is Alec Schultz. I'm
the co-founder and CEO here at 4ocean. I grew up on a small island on the west coast of Florida, spent almost all my time on or in the ocean. And that was really my hobbies and my passion. Surfing, diving, fishing, just my life revolved around that. So naturally, you know, after high school, it was time to decide where I wanted to go to school. And, you know, my brother and sister went to Florida Atlantic University. I'm sorry, Florida
State University up in Tallahassee. And so the whole family was like, all right, you're going to Tallahassee, Florida State. And for me, it was like landlocked, couldn't bring a boat. And, you know, I just, it wasn't really for me. And I just heard about FAU and they, you know, I heard this random thing as far as you can, you can see the ocean from the top of the buildings and it's like a quarter of a mile from the ocean and kind of like a beach town. I
was hooked. So I originally actually came over to Boca and went to FAU as an ocean engineer. You know, as a background, I love building things. I love, you know, kind of innovating and designing and just, you know, just everything, just from overworking to building materials and just kind of 3D printing and laser printing. Like, I just enjoy tinkering and building stuff. So naturally coming over here for ocean engineering, I was so excited because I thought I was going to put my
passion for the ocean and my passion for the hobbies together. And I did that for about two years, two and a half years, and I ended up getting an internship. And it turned out to be much more of a desk job and did more research than that. And it wasn't something that I was very, very passionate about. You know, I love the idea of creating and building and spending time outdoors and being on the water. And so I switched my degree to just
business management and entrepreneurship. And it was in college that I ended up meeting a good group of guys that did a lot of surf trips. And so, you know, went surfing with them and we would go all over the place. We'd go to, you know, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Panama, El Salvador. And so we were always going on surf trips throughout college and, you know, just having a good time going on these different trips around the place. And
it was after college, I ended up going on a surf trip with a buddy of mine and we went to Bali. And Bali is where kind of everything happened for the idea for 4ocean. And, you know, when you think of Bali, you typically think of the picturesque, pristine, tropical vacation destination. And, you know, what we found in Kuta, which is the town that you fly into just outside Denpasar, was
a crazy amount of plastic. And so what we were blown away by was just absolutely football fields full of plastic on the coastlines, washing up with every single wave and the amount of just plastic packaging and wrappers, straws, bags, bottles. I mean, it's unbelievable to
see. And so we were really confused by that. And we realized that the plastic packaging in the water and on the beaches was having so much of an impact you know, the tourism on these fishermen's ability to catch fish and literally seeing fishermen grabbing plastic, so like they've had nets and seine nets and things like that, literally grabbing plastic and throwing it on the other side. Their propellers that they're running on their jukungs, their vessels, are getting wrapped
up with plastic bags. They're sitting there unwrapping the plastic, tossing and keeping going. And it was at that point that we were just like, man, this is crazy. We've got to find a way that we can fund some cleanup. There's got to be a way to connect people with the aspiration and goal of trying to clean plastic from the ocean. So we came up with the idea for a 4ocean bracelet. And so, the idea was pretty simple. Let's make a product made from recycled materials, and then for everyone sold,
we'll remove a pound of trash from the ocean. Comparable to, like, Tom's Shoes. And so, you know, Blake Mycoski is someone that I've seen the impact that he's been able to make and was always so blown away by Tom's Shoes and just the business and the impact that he's built. And so, we created a model very comparable to that. And it started like a bang. We started out with just two of us and before we knew it, it was just
exploding in growth. And I think one of the main things that really attributed to that
growth were some videos that went viral. So, we had some videos go viral on social media that just went gangbusters overnight and and we were we could not fill orders we could not pull pounds we could not it was crazy so we yeah I told the story earlier we actually we went to FAU and so like three days after this what this happened there was a FAU job fair and so we went to the FAU job fair and the quote was if you had a pulse you got a job We
left that job fair and we hired 17 people. Wow. Like, it doesn't matter. You're going to clean plastic. You're going to be shipping orders. You're going to help a customer service. Just come on down. We'll figure something out. We'll get you guys dialed in. And so it was a roller coaster ride. And it had been, you know, it just grew so quickly. And we just scaled our cleanups. We were able to expand internationally, hire local fishermen. in Florida, in
Bali. We had a facility in Haiti, Guatemala. You know, we've expanded all around the world. And now, you know, the model that we've built is something that I'm very passionate about. And what that is, is it's creating jobs for these fishermen. We realized that the plastic in the ocean was an issue that we wanted to address, so we wanted to find a way to create full-time jobs for these captains and crew to be able to employ them to collect
plastic instead of catching fish. So they have all the experience on the ocean, all the similar tools, all the similar training, and so it was a very simple shift to say, hey guys, why don't we just pay you to collect plastic instead of catching fish? And so I'm proud to say that all of our captains are paid a fair living wage around the world. We cover 100% of health insurance and benefits. And right now we have a 98% retention rate on our cleanup. So it's something that we've really devoted
a ton of time and energy into, and I'm very proud of it. And I'm proud to say that after seven or eight years now of hard work, we're coming up on 40 million pounds of Jeez. That's amazing. Just think about it. Eight years ago, you guys were trying to figure out how to get plastic out of one part of the ocean, like a small piece in Bali. Seeing this devastation. Obviously, it probably soured your experience in the surfing, right?
Because you're seeing all this. And then you're seeing everybody who's enthralled in this. And then eight years later, you're like, 40 million pounds of plastic you've taken out. Did you ever dream that actually would have happened Never, never in my wildest dreams did I think that we'd be where we are. I, you know, we thought like, Hey, can we, you know, can we do small little cleanup operation? Can we get some boats on the water? You know, really just trying to build a business and a movement
around something we're passionate about. And, and so for me, that was something that I really, really was determined to do is, is to, to really build a legacy brand. And we want to create that so at the point where it can have an impact on the amount of plastic that's in the ocean, not only just recovering it, but also driving the awareness and getting more people involved. And, you know, we thought we were going to be a much smaller, you know, grassroots,
smaller group. And, you know, I'm proud to say that we're a few hundred people today and we're employing people Well, I think there's a lot to unpack here, and we're going to get into it. Let's start with it, because it's amazing how you're hiring people that live in the country. It's not just people that you've hired from North America to go travel and take it out. So that's it. We're going to
unpack that a little later, because I think that's absolutely fantastic. And sort of like the new, it's really the way conservation should be going forward in the future. It should have been done a while ago, but it wasn't. To
see a company doing that, absolutely amazing. I want to go to the bracelets because I find like this is a really interesting concept because I've seen this before and some, like you said, some companies remain small to medium size and they sell a product and they use that product to fund something else, whether it's creating like, you know, some sort of like take out a pound of trash or
something else, right? They do some other types of conservation. When you first started, you came up with the bracelets. How did you source the material for the bracelet? When you said, hey, we'll sell bracelets, but it's going to be recycled material. That's not always easy to source, especially eight years ago. Where did Sure, so it took a long time for us to source all of the recycled materials and really just develop the product because,
you know, the bracelets were handmade in Bali. So that's something that took a long time to try and find manufacturers that could provide the RPET, convert it into the thread, develop and mix in some of our ocean plastic that we had collected and develop into this product. It took us about a year of building. It was a, it was a very, very tough process to try and think about and develop. And you know, we're new, I've never sourced
Yeah. Product development. You just kind of get out there and go for it. And so I think we spent a ton of time and, and after we got everything set up in Bali, um, you know, with the local artisans there to, to help manufacture the bracelets, that was something that we just, we, we kind of cracked the code in a sense and, and said, let's, let's make it with, with RPT and, and post-consumer recycled That's amazing. Now, it took you a year to come up with the prototype? Is
that what it was? Like, finally to come up with the bracelet that you're willing Just about, yeah. To get to the point where we could actually reach any type of production volume. So we were doing samples, we were doing concepts and different thought process, and we really didn't know what we were going to sell for that first initial stage. And I say it a lot, that the bracelet is really our stepping stone to the bigger picture. We
look at this, and I almost label the bracelet as like our Kickstarter campaign. We didn't raise a bunch of capital, we didn't go and get a bunch of investors, we took money that we literally made from myself parking cars at valet and my co-founder from from working on boats and we started this and and so uh you know it it it was basically just something that we were able to to test out and find that it was going to be a bracelet it was going to be something that could be gender neutral
uh that wasn't too much of a of a statement piece and and really just could get as many people involved because that's you know at the end of the day that is a firm belief of mine is that Clean oceans and the ocean plastic crisis really should bring people together. There's so many things in this world that are very divisive and I find that
everybody can agree that we all appreciate clean oceans. We all can agree that we want a future for ourselves, future generations, for our kids, I have one son who's only a year and a half old and my wife is just about to be due with our second son. So it's very imperative for me to try and give them the things that I've experienced. So when we thought about a bracelet concept, it was something that could bring a bunch of people together and that it wouldn't really matter your
interests or anything like that. It's just, hey, we're trying to stay focused on I think what I love about the bracelet, it's almost like it's a very big symbol that people can wear. And we've seen it with other things, breast cancer and other types of cancer. He's seen that braces to get a movement going. And so it's a simple piece of clothing or accessory to clothing. It can go with a bunch of different styles. Especially, I find that the bracelet, when you look at it, it screams out.
I don't know, maybe it's the color. But I find it screams out people around the ocean who like the ocean. because it's simplified, it's not metal, it's a nice thread, and I guess the bubbles around it are clear. It's very simplified, but when you look at it, you're like, okay, I'm doing something good. I really enjoy it. You're right. I worked for the federal government a number of years ago. I live in Canada, we were working with the US on a bi-national agreement
with the Great Lakes. One of the major things that was the focus is when people look out off the shore in the Great Lakes, what do they see? Do they see something that's clean? Or does it smell? Or is there nutrients or there's algae or anything like that? And until recently, plastics never really entered the equation in the Great Lakes. But now, with more and
more research, we're starting to see that. And the same thing with the ocean. Nobody wants to go out on a dock or on a pier and look out into the ocean and see trash, and see plastic, and just see it. Just like what you guys saw in Bali, nobody wants to see that off the coast of Florida, California, BC, anywhere in the world. We don't want to see that. So it's nice to
have that actual vision. Yes. So a year of working the jobs just to make things work and invest your money and time into that, probably a lot of trips to Bali and back and forth, I'm sure. And I think that's great. But you said you had viral videos that went off, and
then that's when the bracelets really started to sell. Were you picking up trash while you were designing the bracelet and just filming it like we would on Yeah, we really started leaning into the videos and I guess filming once we started the business. Like, okay, let's start documenting this idea and concept. And so the model was simple. Purchase a product, we're gonna recover
plastic from the ocean, and then we're gonna, this is kind of our model. And so we started filming that when the business started, and it was pulling together kind of like I guess what you'd call it is just like a video pitch. And it was like a 60-second video that just said, hey, this is who we are. This is what we're trying to do. These are our goals and aspirations. And this is how we're going to do it. And this is how you could get involved if you want to join. And so I think that's what
really ended up taking off. It, you know, just the videos going on face at the time, it was Facebook before Facebook kind of changed their algorithms and stuff. And, and it just, Facebook just happened to go viral. And next thing you know, it's getting picked up by a bunch of others. And then it was just like, okay, we're, we've got something here. We're ready to rock and roll and let's go expand our cleanups and expand That is, it's amazing. But I want to know, how
hard was that first year? Or even the first couple of years? Because people look at Four Oceans and we look at you from the outside and just be like, they've got stuff together. They've got systems, they've got process, they've got boats, they're hiring captains and crew all over the world. It looks easy, but I know these things aren't easy, especially those first couple of years. What were the struggles that you
went through? Because there's some people who are listening in the audience who want to build a business that also does good. So some of the people, they're just not ready, or they may have those fears where they're just like, well, this won't work, or this won't work, or this will take too long. So I just wanted to hear some of the challenges so Sure, sure, yeah. No business. I think it's important to understand, no business is
just a simple walk in the park. They talk about, what is it, Elon Musk says a statement of being an entrepreneur is comparable to chewing on glass and staring into the dark abyss. You hear those different phrases and I don't think, well, it's that drastic. It's just, there's highs and lows. Of course you're gonna always see the majority of the highs and all the awesome things, but there are, a lot
of struggles. And when we started out, I mean, it was tough. I think my advice to anybody getting involved in the space would be, be prepared to be curious and be prepared to have a relentless drive of learning new things. And I think that's something that's so important because when we started, it was tough. We had nothing. We literally had
nothing. We started this business with two $5,000 Investments that we'd saved I literally I had a brick of ones save from ballet, you know, like I'm not kidding Yeah, like right it was it was like nothing and so we had to get scrappy So like right the thing starting out was, you know, we couldn't hire as some big marketing agencies and big companies you know, production and sourcing companies. We just had to learn and I say it a lot like YouTube University was
one of the things. Like I got my degree in entrepreneurship from FAU and that was helpful from a macro perspective. You really get to understand, you know, the concepts of business. But when it comes down to the nitty-gritty of like, okay, how do I source a product? How do I build a website? How do I film and market? How do I fulfill a product, handle customer service? how do I set up a cleanup infrastructure and develop SOPs on
how our vessels need to be handled and maintained? There's so many different components that factor into that and I think that the relentless drive to learn new things, it's one thing that I like. I love learning new things. I'm always chasing after these different things and trying to really find out and learn and improve and get better at things. And I think that when we started out, it was like we didn't have money to market, so we couldn't like brand
products. So I learned how to, you know, cut with a vinyl machine and be able to brand all our own products and used a projector to project stuff onto walls to paint our logos and like get all creative with it. Because we didn't have money to go spend four grand on a tent. So it's like, all right, well, we're buying the blue tent from Walmart, and we're going to paint this thing and make it our own. And so I think that was the thing that was very tough,
is that we had no resources. We had to start small. We had to be scrappy. And there were dark times. And there still are dark times, like 100%. There's ups and downs like crazy. And I think that that's something to just understand that you've got slow down, work with your team, understand what needs to be done in order to drive the business, drive the operations forward
and, and really come out with a strategic plan to, to try and execute. And, uh, you know, it's, it's been something that's been, uh, uh, you know, a challenge for a lot of businesses starting out is like, just how do you start? Where do you start? And I would just say, that's one of the biggest pieces of advice that I could have is like, just get ready to use the internet. Now, I mean, and honestly, we have chat GPT and all this AI now,
which is insane. But before it was like reading forums till late at night, joining Facebook groups, looking good, you know, just watching YouTube videos nonstop. And I mean, on anything like from marketing, teaching yourself how to film and take photos to, how are we going to install this outboard engine on this boat? You know, I don't have the money to pay a mechanic, but we're going to learn it and we're going to figure it out. So I think it was, it was very,
Yeah. And I assume when you first started, too, you had access to boats so you can go out and do the cleanups. But boats are expensive to maintain, buy and maintain. What's the rule? If you want a boat, you just get ready to put more and more money into it, especially with, I would imagine, with the way you all use it, especially locally for the boats that you own. So I guess a question, for the worldwide management, you're paying people. people on the ground, you
know, managing the business out there as well. So you have not only just captains and crew, but you have sort of like a bit of an infrastructure in There's a full hierarchy. We have an entire team. So we have directors, managers, captains, crews, you know, essentially leaders of each organization. So there's like full on infrastructure at each location and we own all of our own vessels. So I mentioned earlier my background, I'm a licensed captain. I
grew up on the water. So I actually throughout college, not only parked cars, but I also bought and sold boats. I would buy them, fix them up and sell them. So that was like a, that was a kind of a side hustle of mine. And so that's how I paid a lot of my way through college, to be frank with you. And I probably bought and sold, I think, like 35 different boats. And it was all just like, started small, like a little John boat for a couple hundred dollars, and
just slowly kept flipping and working my way up to bigger boats and bigger things. I got the chance to learn and understand how to maintain, how to do fiberglass work, how to run electronics, and just operate these vessels. So it's something I enjoy. It's a hobby of mine, honestly. It's not only just a matter of that. And so spending that time out there was, in the beginning, we had access to the idea and concept of, all right, well, let's get
vessels on the water. And our first boat was a Carolina Skiff. So we purchased a used Facebook marketplace. And yeah, we just went for it. We got it painted. We got it, you know, branded. It's actually, it looks like this boat right here. I don't know if any of the viewers are watching, but so yeah, this is a very comparable boat. And so that was our first skiff ever. And you know, I'm actually proud to say, so we've, historically, we've always bought used
boats. You know, we've always bought, we're going to be beating them up. We're going to be, throwing plastic and trash on them. So we always bought used boats and it's all we could afford. And we actually just kicked off a partnership with Carolina Skiff. So we got a first time ever in 4Ocean's history, a brand new, amazing vessel. And it's tricked out to the nine for cleanup. So we're dialed in to go
clean anywhere. So it's a big moment. I'm very, very proud and very excited to finally get a reliable vessel that's not, you Yeah, I mean, it just goes to show how far you've gone. But it also goes to show how much people believe in what the mission that Four Oceans is about, too, right? To get a company like Carolina's Gift to just be like, yeah, no, we see this. And we're ready to put together a boat that's maximized for, I assume, the most plastic you can pick up on a boat with safety
in mind, of course, and to bring it back and haul it back. Yes. Well, I'm actually also excited. So it's not only just Carolina Skip, but we have like partnerships with Sea-Doo. So they've provided vessels. They're a sponsor and a partner. Sea-Doo's, Can-Am, Defender for a quad. Like we've been supported now with these other businesses, other gear that we're now outfitted with. It's pretty cool. I say it a lot. And we're outfitted with the best tools
to clean the ocean. And it's almost like we're utilizing the same equipment that Navy SEALs or these operators are utilizing, but we're doing it to clean plastic. And this is actually something that we did when we first started. It was very intentional. Everything from the paint schemes, the stripes, and installing the light bars on the boats, and putting all that stuff, we
wanted to make cleaning the ocean cool. We didn't want it to just be viewed as something like, oh, they're just doing sanitary work, like they're just cleaning up trash. We wanted it to be like, hey, this is something that we are deliberately doing to try and clean plastic from the ocean, That's incredible. That's amazing. So let's
talk about the actual picking up of the plastic. You know, because you have these boats and then you must have instruments or tools to get the plastic out of the boats because you're not going to lean over all the time and just pick it up by hand. How does all of that work? And like you can even talk about the beginning and how we've evolved over time to maximize that. But Sure. So that's a great question. We typically, and our standard method of collecting plastic is really
through hand. It's by hand, but it's utilizing net systems. So like standard nets and dip nets and things like that. One core belief that we have here at 4ocean is that technology, while it can play an important role in the ocean plastic crisis, we really feel, and I feel very passionately about, you can spend a significant amount of money on a piece of technology, but I believe that the most effective and the most impactful way is to create full-time
jobs for individuals. Because if you're going to create a very expensive machine that might cost millions of dollars to recover plastic, the amount of people that you can employ with that money is significant. And so there's not the maintenance aspect, there's not the you know, the shelf life and how long this or the life cycle of this product and how long it's going to last. But I think that what we're finding is that there's plastic is almost always mixed with organics, right? So sticks and
seagrass and all sorts of seaweed and things like that. And so our captains and crews are very efficient with hand nets. So we're literally going out in the vessels. We're scooping the plastic with nets to
bring back into the boat. And we're also walking the shorelines. And so we're walking the shorelines and collecting the plastic off of the shorelines with uh you know grabbers but also a lot of different individuals rather just to choose to use their hands you know obviously we have gloves and the necessary ppe but um it's it's a very basic method and it's to be frank with you very hard i mean what we're doing is it's backbreaking work you know when we're out there in the sun it
is incredibly hot incredibly humid And we're collecting this plastic off the ground and out of the ocean on these beaches and and I think that it's it's, you know, we really view it as how can we create as much impact not only just on the environment, but even from a social and economic perspective. And so creating these full time jobs is something that. is very important to me and the impact that we're able to make with our captains and crews. So you really have the boats, you
have, we say boats, boots, and booms. It's kind of like our term, right? So boats on the water, boots, we're walking down the beach, we're collecting, and then boom systems, which are barricades that are installed in rivers. Similar to what you see in the oil spill industry to contain the material. So we put those into some small rivers to try and stop plastic before it has Again, so much to unpack there. It's amazing what you're able to do. And the way you talk about it, it's like,
yeah, this is what we do. And it must have taken a while. And there must be a learning process through the last eight years that you've taken to be like, OK, what's like you come to a river. Recently, we talked about this before we recorded. Recently, your team was in Bali, or you had a team in Bali. brilliantly posted on social media the cleanup process of this. And this river, when you look at this river, it was disgusting when you look at it from a plastic pollution perspective. It
was just filled. There wasn't even a river. It just looked like a river of plastic that was going down. You could see the booms installed. You could see the backup of all this. And then it was just like this video that was put in, in like, I don't know if it was 10 times speed or what, but it was just being cleaned up and cleaned up and cleaned up. And then all of a sudden at the end of the video, you just saw a river again. You know, you're just like, this is incredible.
What was that learning process of going into a river? Because when you look at a river like that, you're just like, whew, this is going to be a lot of work. This is not an easy job to do. What was that learning process to tackle this ocean plastic problem without getting your employees just being like, oh my god, we're Sure, sure. So yeah, we've had a lot of videos go out of all of our cleanup efforts and I think that the videos have really helped us a lot now. You know, it's
completely flipped. So in the beginning stages of when we started 4ocean, we couldn't get anybody to work for us. It was so hard and the reason being nobody believed that what we were doing was real. They thought that it was all like, oh, you're just going to show up once. Because we showed up and we literally walked. I'm not kidding. We'd fly to these areas. We flew to Haiti with backpacks on, walking around trying to open up a cleanup location. We flew to Bali and literally walked
around, met people, networked, and said, hey, this is what we're trying to do. It was a very, very Scrappy process, but yeah when we first started people thought we were crazy. They literally said wait a second You're gonna pay us full time. You're gonna pay us a fair living a living wage. So above the minimum wage So many people thought that we were just out there with a, they thought we were crazy. They thought we were just out there with a wacky idea.
I can see a lot of people thinking that. So what happened was that we really struggled to get captains and crew to come in and say, you know what, hey, I will stop fishing and I will come over here and work with you guys. And so what happened is the power of social media is what changed that. And when we first started, it was like, all right, we got a small little group of captains and crew. We started growing. We started seeing the videos. And then the social media accounts gave us a little bit
of a reputation. And people were like, whoa, wait a minute. And so now it's flipped to the complete opposite side. I just got back from a trip to Bali and I was talking with our team out there and they're explaining like it's actually a big problem right now. They said that they are so overwhelmed with people that are asking to work for 4ocean that they're breaking down
their door like constantly. They have all friends and family always sending resumes of their friends and it's because we are paying for a living wage. We're giving them 100% of health insurance and benefits And, and the environment and what we try and do to take care of our staff is, is just so,
uh, important to us. And so they just said, like, it's literally gotten to a point now where people are, are, uh, struggling to, to, I'm sorry, they're, they're, they're, you know, they want the job so So, so I would say, you know, in the beginning stages, it was very tough and, and, you know, to learn how to do this and teach the crews and develop all the SOPs and follow the process of documenting our
plastic, because we document every pound that's been recovered. with photos and that entire process and so it took a lot of time and it was very tough but we were determined and Let me ask you this, when it comes to paying people the living wage and taking care of your staff, like really fostering a culture where it's like, yeah, we're working all over the world, but we're going to take care of you. Like you work for us, it's hard work, we know, but
we're going to take care of you. There are a lot of businesses out there, and Alex, you and I know which businesses are there, that are literally just paying minimum wage. And they complain that if you have to raise minimum wage, they're not going to make a dollar. their money, low wages, you know, their products, lots of products, they probably pay a lot, like very little and make little profit on it.
You have this company where you're cleaning up plastic, selling a bracelet, and other things as well, but here you are paying the people the money that, where they can be comfortable. They're not scrounging, they're not complaining that they can't live in the place that they're living and so forth. Is that a hard thing to do, especially as a company that's been
building for eight years? I know you grew rapidly, but even growing rapidly, was there a concern about, are we going to be able to pay everybody for the long term? We're building a bit of an international family here. How can we pay all these? Was that a concern, especially you just starting out your first business and your staff and stuff like that? How difficult was that to figure So, from a decision perspective, not hard at all. It
was a no-brainer. It was, you know, the idea and concept of if we're going to create something, we're going to have an impact and we're going to create a business that can really do amazing things. You know, when you talk about the triple bottom line, that's really what we believe in, is people, planet, and profit. And I think that that's
something that's so important to be able to take care of our crews. And if it was going to be, hey, we're going to start a business that's going to take advantage of all of our crews internationally, That was not anything that we're interested in. So I think the decision to do it was no-brainer, dead forward, this is exactly what we want to do. In terms of the ability to pay our captains and crew, that
is something that absolutely does get difficult. We're talking about a significant difference in compensation structures. Where, you know, at times when you go through low periods, it's so hard. And this has happened to us. We've gone through periods of dipping heavily with sales due to any type of influence, right? Whether that's coronavirus, when all of the wholesale businesses shut down, went to zero. whether it's Facebook changing their algorithm and all of a sudden the next day,
your entire marketing strategy is just flipped upside down. We've experienced a ton of highs and lows and we have not been immune to any of that. And I will tell you in those down periods, it is something that is definitely a significant weight in terms of our expenses, but it is something that we always to be candid with you, uh, sometimes to a fault because we just, we prioritize the cleanup crews and it's just like, guys, no cleanup.
It's one of our core values is ocean first ocean first product second. And so that's something that's so important is that, you know, we can always find ways to, to handle anything that we need to, but the cleanups are why we're here. We have to protect our cleanup crews and I love that. And it is difficult. Like you mentioned, there's been a lot that happened in the last eight years, including a global pandemic,
which makes things very difficult. Algorithms that fly by, it seems like they change every day to suppress certain things and promote other things. It's not easy to, you know, not every video is going to go viral. You know, even for Four Oceans, as big as you guys are and as wonderful as you like, not everything's going to go viral, not everybody's going to see it. And that can make things complicated. But I love the fact that you work and scrape and scrounge for your staff. Because
I think that builds loyalty. You're right. When they know that, like, hey, during hard times, we never had to worry. I think that builds loyalty in the long run. And I find that's the one thing that companies who are trying to be sustainable or trying to do good for the ocean, whether they're non-profits or for-profits or both, like a hybrid model, they tend not to invest in their people as much. And that could be because of funding structures and things like that. But I find when you invest in
people, you get the best out of people. And I think what you guys are doing is exactly that. And what you're doing is you're getting the best out of people. Because let's be honest, it's got to be tough work out there. You're in the heat a lot of the times, you're in the water. Being on the ocean, it's lovely. Let's be honest, it's fun. It's noon and the sun's over you and it's hard
work. You're sweating. You're probably in good shape afterwards because your calorie count must be way up here just to stay in shape like that. I mean, it's hard work. So I think fighting for them as much as possible for that staff will allow them to fight for you, especially for the reason that they're doing. Now, we talk about plastic pollution a lot on this podcast. There's an international treaty that's trying to be formalized around
the world right now. I think the next meeting is in South Korea shortly. As you mentioned a couple of times, it's a crisis. We are in a crisis of plastic pollution. And your group is doing a great job at cleaning it up, especially from the rivers, not just out in the ocean, but from the rivers, which is a point of impact, essentially. How do you maintain, like how do you think you're doing right now? 40 million pounds of plastics is
a lot. There's no doubt about that. Do you ever feel down when you come to a new place or you visit a place that you visited before and cleaned it up and it's back to normal? I guess the first question is, do you ever feel pessimistic about the situation that you're in and the job that you're doing? And then I'll ask a follow-up after. Sure, sure. So I would say that I, by nature, once again, almost to a fault, am such
an optimistic person. So I always maintain a, or try to maintain the best outlook as possible. And, and I think that there are times, absolutely. When it's just heavy, like it's just, it's, it's, you know, standing on these coastlines where the plastic is like eight feet deep. It's I'm talking miles, absolutely miles. As far as your eye can see. and there's just millions of pounds of plastic sitting on
the coastline, it's easy to get a little overwhelmed. And I will tell you that, you know, when I see those things, it really is like a fire. It fires me up because, you know, for us and our captains and crew, we know the impact that we can have. And so for me, instead of just feeling overwhelmed or anxiety or depression based off of like, man, this is just crazy. I want to see action. I want to start breaking down a plan. Okay, let's start thinking
about it. How could we execute at this? Like, let's really start laying out a structure and an idea and a concept and let's start testing. Let's get after it. And so I think that's something where, you know, you can get overwhelmed by the sites that you see. but it's so important to
stay positive and think about the solutions. Because within all environmental crisis that's happening right now, you can be very depressed and have a lot of anxiety towards it, but I think one of the best things that you can do that will start to solve that is take action. And so what we're trying to do is take action. And one thing that we talk a lot about, Andrew, is that we know that cleaning the ocean alone will not solve the ocean plastic crisis. We know
that our captains and crew, they're doing an amazing job. We are working our butts off in the sun, just like you said, but cleaning plastic is not going to end this issue. What we believe is that cleanups are an amazing awareness tool, because what they're doing is they're driving that awareness. We are educating people on the problem that's happening out there, showing them that it exists, because what we find is a lot of people say, yeah, but isn't that just a bunch of plastic in
developing countries? Like, that doesn't affect us. And so I'm like here, like, hey, listen, we're just cleaned all day. I got 1,200 pounds of plastic from a few hours out just outside of Miami. You know, this is an amazing destination. So, it's here on our doorsteps. And I think that we're really trying to drive that awareness from a social media perspective and leveraging mainstream tactics like athletes, celebrities, influencers.
Because if we can continue to push the conversation forward, then we will get more people talking about it, learning about what's happening, And together, we can start to see some of these changes that are happening. So I think it can be really overwhelming, and you can get really depressed or just overwhelmed at times. But you've got to stay focused on it. You've got to take action. And you've got to clean the ocean to try and take
Yeah, 100%. I completely agree. I really relate to Four Oceans because I'm always the guy who's just like, OK, somebody's got to do this job. I'm
going to just pick up. you know pick up my pants go like just you know just do it right yes and and let's just get it done and i think that's what you guys have been able to do and continue to do it and i think a lot of people relate to that just by the support that you've been getting not only from a consumer perspective but also from you know a partnership perspective with other companies that you've mentioned already and and a lot more I'm
sure. And so I think that's great. Now, I know you guys are focused on picking up plastic, but do you have people in your organization that focuses on the legislative aspect and speaking to government officials or policy people to be like, hey, look, this is what we see every day. We've got videos, we've got
stuff like that. I feel like that would be an effective tool to either partner with another organization that specialize that or if you're able to do that within your own staff to go to Congress or go to the government within the different countries that you work in. Does Four Oceans have those opportunities to do that or So right now, we partner with other organizations. And so we have the 501c3. So 4ocean, as a company, we have a public benefit corporation, which is
our for-profit business that's partnering with businesses and brands. And we're selling products and doing things. And all the proceeds go to fund ocean cleanup. But we also have our 501c3, which is our nonprofit. And so we historically have not gotten involved in policy. And some of the different aspects like education and going to schools and looking at the curriculums and these community engagement. We used to have a very large community activation team, but once
COVID hit, we couldn't afford to keep them on. And so some of these different aspects are things that are very hard to fund on the business side when we have such a large cleanup crew and the expenses are very, very high. So that's what we're viewing the nonprofit as, an opportunity to get more involved
in these different areas. And I understand that policy can be a little bit of a hornet's nest, and there's a lot of, you gotta be careful with how you manage that, because we want to try and drive as much awareness as possible, and we wanna try and have that impact and change. But I will tell you, I will be the first one to admit, when it comes to policy, when it comes to legislation, I
am not an expert in that space. I am still very new to it, And I will tell you the things that I've seen and heard even on the Global Plastics Treaty that's happening right now. there are things that are a little discouraging, right? Because what I've heard is that like, hey, you know, this will be our, I think our fourth, fourth meeting, correct?
So this is the fourth meeting and I, and I dig in, I'm so excited. I was just at Circularity Conference and Green Biz and you know, those are great, great events to get together with like-minded individuals in the sustainability space. And I'm like, guys, so tell me like, what are your thoughts? What are you seeing? And I got to tell you, it was a consistent theme of like, I'll be honest with you, it's just like a big run
around. Like we go here, they're telling me all the things that happen as far as like, uh, we've proposed X amount of things, but then overnight they switched them to like this massive thing. And then there's like. Four to one lobbyist compared to the people that are there from a sustainable perspective. And so there's so many things that it's like, ah, man, like I really want to, to
see progress in this space. And, and just to understand that it is, it While they might be getting sidetracked or not really reaching in the end goal, I think that we're making progress and I completely agree and you know there's going to be you know there's a lot of people who a lot of companies who depend on plastics for their bottom line and they're not going to give it up quickly and and you know they send lobbyists and Ottawa we've had
people on where they went to Ottawa meeting and here just just north of here like four hours north of here and They're saying, yeah, there's so many lobbyists that work for the plastics industry, the chemical industries. But I think what happens is we're learning from that. You know, we're learning that, like, they're worried about these types of movements.
They're worried about these types of laws and regulations that are coming in. and we're making some progress on finding sustainable alternatives. I mean, you've built a business on a sustainable bracelet and people are buying it because they see the work that you're doing. And I think, I feel like 4ocean is the opportunity to really get people to see how
much trash is out there. We've been talking about it for decades, but really there hasn't been a company that's consistently showing Not only doing, but showing the amount of trash that you face on a regular basis. And it is, sometimes it's devastating too. When you look at it, you're like, oh my gosh. But then when you see people cleaning it up, you get that optimism just like you are. You get that optimism like, all right, so this river can be
salvageable. This coastline is salvageable. Even though they took the time out and did it, and it may have taken them a week, two weeks, a couple of months to clean this up. they've cleaned it up. And I think that is, that's such a positive message that comes out of it. And now it's just a matter of like, how do we make sure that that doesn't, you know, accumulate again in that very same spot. And I think, I feel like that's a
way that we can really move forward. But being able to see that, being able for you to provide that, I think is really great. Can you talk maybe like about a project that you're working on now or that one of your areas, like one of your groups of staff or locations are working on now that you would like sort of the audience to know just sort of how you're tackling it and how long a project takes and Sure, sure. Let's take Bali. So in Bali, Indonesia, right now, one of
the things that we're doing is we're expanding our locations. So we have satellite offices. So we have our headquarters there, and then we have satellite offices. And what we typically do is we are utilizing a similar management strategy, or a similar hierarchy. And we're going to expand to these different areas. So we actually just moved over to the island of Java, which is an island just
next to Bali. And we're expanding in that area. So, you know, it takes, uh, it will take anywhere from sometimes six months to a year to really formalize, you know, and, and I mean, these are, these are not like, you know, we're not just showing up with like a tent on a beach. Like we have full on facilities, I mean, at our, our Gembrana facility. So. I don't know if there's any photos up behind us here, but we actually have full-on, yeah,
actually right up here. So this is a full-on recycling infrastructure. So in our facility in Gibrana, we're building, you know, these large warehouses and inside of it we have shredders, grinders, wash machines. We have a wastewater treatment plant. We have, you know, backup generators. We have It's a full-on operation that we have to build these different areas. So, you know, it takes a long time to set up. So once we get that going, we'll hire a manager for that location and then we'll build
the team. And so, you know, it's getting the vessels, getting the... And we operate multiple different vessels. We have everything from a jukung, which is a Bali traditional style boat, that has kind of, you know, almost like pontoons, kind of like these right there. Then we'll use like skiffs, we use river boats, catamarans, kayaks, little plastic john boats, like we're attacking it from all different angles. And
so it's, you know, it's a process to get set up. And so the team really just spends the time, we come up with a plan and we try and execute. And I think that's something that It'll take anywhere from six months to a year to get set up, but we're constantly improving. Yeah, for sure. And that's an evolution that will never stop, I think, and I love that. When you collected all the materials, you sort it, you grind
it up, whatever, cut it, whatever you have to do with it. One of the big problems with plastic is trying to figure out what to do with it. We know the problems in North America with recycling. You know, it's a bit of a misleading sort of area for here in North America where some things can be recycled, some things can't. But it's confusing a lot of times of what you can put out and you're recycling. And that changes by region or by country or by municipality and
county and so forth. So when you have facilities like that and you're able to sort it all down, grind it all down, what Sure, sure. So I'll actually even start from when we collect it. Yeah, that'd be great. So we track all the plastic that we collect. So what we do is we take photos of the crews that are going to be heading out
on the water. We take photographs before, during, and after their cleanups to showcase exactly where this plastic is being collected and show the proof of these beaches and these coastlines and these oceans being clean. So all that plastic is then brought back to our facility. And our facility, each individual super sack, which is what we put all the plastic into it, is photographed and weighed
individually. So all that information is then uploaded onto a physical sheet that we're tracking, and it's going into our digital trash tracker. So basically, we can go back to any pound that has been recovered over the past eight years And you can go back and see the day, the time, the captains and crew that were cleaning it, the time spent cleaning,
the location, and all the photographs of that cleanup. So that's something that we've really put a ton of energy and effort into it when we started 4ocean, because we wanted to be transparent with our cleanups. Once that material is back at our facility, it depends on the location. So every location is different, but recycling is our highest priority. What we're doing is we're sorting this material by type, color, and condition, and preparing it for future recycling. So for example, in
Gembrana, we have a facility. So we have a shredder, we have a wash tank, and a dryer, and we're processing it into a usable feedstock that can be recycled into new products. In Guatemala, we have a bunch of partners where we're transporting, because we don't need to own the actual facilities, because the partnerships, I'm sorry, the facilities exist that we can partner with to send these materials.
So what we're doing is we're batching the materials in large batches, and then once we reach the necessary MOQs, or the volumes that it's efficient to ship this material, because you want to be as efficient as possible, so we're compressing it into what's known as bales. We're using a baler, which is compressing into little cubes, which is a highly densified plastic. And then we're shipping it to
these locations. So the highest volume, the highest quality of plastic is being converted into products and even stockpiling. We have stockpiles of massive amounts of good quality plastic that we're ready to make new materials with and new products that can drive awareness around ocean plastic. The mid-grade materials are being used to create construction materials. So think of like a synthetic board or synthetic beam. So they're making roofing tiles, boards, pool deck, decking,
and things like that. And then the lowest quality of material is either being co-processed, converted into electricity, or it's being landfilled. But we try to avoid landfill at all costs. There's just some things that you just can't do. Dirty diapers, the fabric loaded with mud and all sorts of stuff. And there's just materials that you have to find a sustainable solution. And we're always looking for better outlets.
So if anybody out there does have any suggestions on Yeah, and I mean, at some point, like, you know, it's not your fault that you can't do something with it. It's just the material itself. And I think that's important for everybody to know. It's like you're just trying to you know, take this material and put them away so that if it's in a landfill, it stays in the landfill. It's not gonna rush out and I think that's really
important to realize. If somebody's taking care of where this material needs to go, how it needs to be sorted, can it be reused, is
there a market to be reused and so forth. And I think that's like That's the part you don't really see too from your business, you know is is you see the cleanup and stuff, which is great but that's the hard part is what to do with the material and I Give you guys a lot of kudos to you know building the the the the warehouses or or plants to sort this out and hiring the crews to sort this out not just cleaning them up and you
know, dumping them somewhere where they'll probably end up being back in the ocean, you know, where it goes. Because that's a big problem, especially in small island states where they may not have the infrastructure for that type of waste management. So that's just amazing. I appreciate you going through that and the work that I appreciate it, and it's actually something that we realize as well, is that we've shown so much of the ocean cleanup and the slow motion shot of the scooping of the net.
But we've got to show the nitty gritty. We've got to show behind the scenes. We've got to show how hard we work. And that is something that we're actively trying to do, is because social media, obviously, with these new algorithms, social media will always favor like, oh, no, we just want to see the great, amazing, polished shot
of the cleanup. But what we're doing is we actually just launched a like a vlog like a YouTube channel And so what this is is it's a longer form content 30 40 50 minutes And this is you're gonna see the nuts and bolts behind 4ocean and this is where on the we just went to Bali and every single day I gave an overview and we just did a day in the life of each and every one of our locations from plastic to processing, uh, processing the plastic transporting, you know, we even had like a team field
day. And so we got all the locations together. We had like 140 people and we did like, uh, we did a tug war, volleyball. obstacle courses. Man, we did everything, literally pillow fighting, Indonesian culture pillow fighting on the boats. Unbelievable, but I'm so excited to share this level of detail about
4ocean because there's so many amazing things that are happening. There's so many people and our captains and crew work so hard, so I'm just so excited to be able to showcase what they're doing in the world and be able to show that to the world about what Absolutely. And I mean, you got to be careful because you're going to get more people
who are going to want to work for you. It could be really batting down the doors, but it's, it's, I think it's, it's, it's a great model to show people what a company should look like doing something good for the environment, like great for the environment, working to make it even better and always going through those iterations, but also showing like what a company culture should look like and what happens when you invest in your staff. And it is like a family
culture. And I love to hear that. It's a grueling job. Some of these jobs, like we've mentioned, it's hard work, and not only on the water, but also on land to do the sorting and everything. But it's great to see a company that brings together and values its employees and staff so much to say, hey, look, we appreciate you. And it's great to almost profile them. Like, here's so-and-so, and he's doing this, That's what we're trying to do. I love it. Oh, man,
it's like you've been in my brain. I love that aspect. I've always been saying that organizations should do more of that. So it's great to see that you guys are doing that. Now, I know there's the bracelet, and that's how people can support. So I kind of want to just, as we end this interview here, I've got a great audience who want to help, who want to support. So how can they support? You got the bracelet, but are there other ways that they can
Absolutely. And so that's a great topic, is while we've made so much progress over the past eight years, and we're so proud of what our team has accomplished, these are recurring funds that hit every single day. And so, you know, in the experience where videos go viral and you get a ton of attention, that's fantastic. You're growing,
you've got the revenue and you've got the capital to continue to invest. When these videos don't go viral, and when you experience these hurdles like COVID, or changes in algorithms for marketing channels and things like that. We still have these ongoing expenses. Our expenses have been growing in a linear format. They just continue to grow. And so it's something that we're constantly still trying to grow and create new innovative business models to continue
to fund. And so for people's interest in getting involved, the bracelet's the easiest way for a consumer to get involved. We've started our B2B business, which is our business-to-business focus, helping these brands implement sustainability programs. And so what we've done, it's actually become a very big portion of our company. And so what we're doing is we're working with brands to help them implement sustainability programs. So the first program is
our plastic offset program. So we work with a brand that's producing plastic in their products or packaging. They want to get to a compostable, biodegradable, or sustainable solution, but some of it, the technology just doesn't exist today. So what they're doing is they're coming to us, we're calculating that footprint, and we're removing the equivalent amount of plastic directly from the ocean. So think of it as like carbon offsets,
but for plastic. And we know that this is not a silver bullet and just a get out of jail free, like, hey, they can wipe their conscience with this. But in the meantime, until that innovation happens in the packaging sector, this is an opportunity for businesses to start taking responsibility for their actions and really looking at the materials they're putting out into the market and helping to fund cleanups of captains and crews around the world. So that's one
way. We also offer our pull a pound partnership. So we offer the same commitment that for every product sold, 4ocean will remove X from the ocean. So we're partnered with electric outboard companies that are removing 300 pounds for every motor sold. Shampoo bar companies that are removing plastic from the ocean for every shampoo bar sold. There's a ton of different examples of companies that are trying to take tangible actions with the products they sell into funding ocean cleanup. And
then lastly, it's like the certified cleanup partnership. This is just for different brands that want to do more of a sponsorship and activation. and be able to do something for like Earth Day or World Oceans Day or things like that. And then I guess actually, lastly, we do corporate gift bracelets. So we can make brands. We've made bracelets for Dell, HP, Corona, T-Mobile, Barbie, some large companies that you can get your brand colors, a custom charm
with your brand's logo on it. and it will pull plastic and trash from the ocean. So they're great holiday gifts, great, you know, handouts for events and things like that. But that's how we're funding it from a business perspective. And then I'd say lastly is on the foundation side. So we have the 4ocean Foundation, which is really going to be geared towards expanding education, advocacy, community activation, community cleanups, and and even cleanups
as a whole. So that's an opportunity to get involved just purely from a 501c3 perspective. So you've got the bracelet side for consumers, you've I love it. I love all of it. That is amazing. Alex, you have built quite the company organization and it's been a pleasure to dive deep into that and we appreciate the transparency of showing sort of the nuts and bolts behind it and the evolution behind it. It's
been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast. Love to have you back on or somebody from your staff to kind of detail different Projects and and really get into some of those projects and give people more hope and more optimism around what we can do And Of course. Thank you so much Andrew I appreciate it. It was great speaking with you and we'll Thank you, Alex, for joining us on this episode of the How to Protect the
Ocean podcast. Really love the fact that you spent some time with us today to be able to talk about four oceans. What an incredible story. Unreal, like just ridiculous. There's a lot of clips in there that I'm gonna be clipping and putting it on social media that people need to hear because to build a story like this, to build a company and a process like this, to be able to be all over the world and 40 million pounds of plastic, blows my mind.
I think it's something that we really haven't seen that much of. I hope we see more of and more companies being able to do this. And if you've ever followed Alex on LinkedIn, He's always talking about how much fun he has, how much he appreciates the staff, and how the company appreciates the staff, and what he sees on a daily basis, some of the
challenges that they face. Sometimes it's harder than others to clean up this plastic, especially at the beginning of a project, but then the feeling that he gets afterwards. You can follow that on LinkedIn. It's amazing to see what he posts and some of the places he's been and the staff have been and what they've been able to accomplish as a company organization and a charity. It's incredible. I can't wait to see what the next eight years gives.
It's going to be incredible. Love the fact that he was very transparent talking about some of the good times, some of the bad times. But I'd love to hear your thoughts on Four Oceans. Have you bought a bracelet? Are you thinking of maybe having a company that you work for try and help Four Oceans out by having maybe some branded bracelets to give to people? I know my organization, my company that I work for, they go
to conferences all the time. They're always hanging out swag. I think hanging out with Swag where you're like, hey, this company, as we pay for this, we're funding plastic ocean cleanups, I think is one of the things that would be really cool to see. So I'd love to hear if you're going to try and do that with your company and try and convince them in what you're going to do to do that. So that's going to be incredible. I'd love to hear what you have to say on that. You can put a comment on
Spotify, on YouTube, on the video, just put in the comments. And of course, if you want to get in touch with me and let me know what you want to do with this and what you thought of the interview and what you think of Four Oceans, please let me know on Instagram. DM me at HowToProtectTheOcean. That's at HowToProtectTheOcean. But I want to thank you so much. for joining me today. And Alex, I want to thank you for spending an hour with me and our audience to tell us more about 4oceans. Thank you
so much for joining us on this episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Have