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guys had a great weekend. Well, it is time to shift our attention towards the NBA Draft, and we have a very special guest today to get that process started. We have Damien Wilkins, who is the general manager and head of basketball over at the Overtime Elite, and he also I'd be remiss if I didn't say, is also a veteran of over five hundred NBA games. We have two overtime Elite prospects that are projected to go in the lottery, as well as a third who is expected
to go in the late first round. And so we're going to dive into those guys, talk a little bit about Overtime Elite in general and their role that they play in basketball development. I'm very excited. It's going to be a fun one. So, Damien, I was talking to
you before we went live here. So most of my listeners know that we don't focus a ton on the draft until the week of and we focus primarily just on the NBA kind of flow of the season, and so I don't think a ton of people are super aware of the spot that Overtime Elite fills in this space. And last year with the Thompson Twins, suddenly you guys came to the forefront with these two awesome lottery prospects that both project to be longtime pros that have enormously
high ceilings. So tell us a little bit of out overtime Elite in the space that it fills in basketball development.
Oh man, So for us, like overtime Elite is pretty much defined as a developmental program, a very accelerated development program.
You know, we have.
We started out in year one with three teams in our league, and then we went from year one to year two and had six teams, and we just finished year three, season three and we had eight teams in our league. So we've grown every year that we've been apart of been in this space. But for us, in our hub in Atlanta, we have three teams. City Reapers, RWE and the Cold Hearts are the name of our teams, our brands.
That's in house.
We have five other teams outside of our market outside of our Atlanta market, one in New York, one in Arizona, one in California, and two in North Carolina.
Which make up our eight team league.
Within our hub here in Atlanta, our three teams and thirty three players that are here on campus in Atlanta. Everything we do here is customizable, from the academic piece to the strength and condition and piece, to the social branding and marketing piece into the on court player development stuff. It is customized to each individual player's needs and based on their strengths and weaknesses.
Where they are.
We meet our guys where they are the minute they walk into the door, and we try to create in them when they leave to be what we call an ote.
Guide, and that's what that entails.
Is basically, we've already we've leveled them up from a branding standpoint, right, We've got them tons of followers and marketing and all of that stuff.
Right.
We've built their bodies up as much as we can build them up based on their baseline when they were here, and we've turned them into exceptional basketball players on the court through our training and development program. Again that's customizable
to them. But more importantly, we try to send them out of here professional and successful people which are much more confident than they were when they came in here, much more real round, well rounded when they came in here, and just someone that can contribute to any organization, sports or otherwise once they lead. That is our ultimate goal, you know, so far from a basketball and development standpoint,
I think we've done that. Everything we do here again, it is you know, individualized for each guy that we have here, and we spend a lot of time on the court. We have about three and a half to four hours of academics every day and then the rest of the time you're doing some type of training on the court. If you're not doing any social or marketing or branding things. So our guys days are full, and it's challenging.
It's an iron, rub and iron environment.
You know, You've got a lot of guys that come here from their you know, respective high schools, and they come into this environment and they're no longer the best player in the building anymore. You know, you're standing next to and competing with or against someone next to you every day that's either better than you or just as good. And you know, we put our guys through extensive just basketball training, all the things to help them become the most professional that they can become.
Yeah, you know, I've been really impressed, and I think that there's no way to look at it as anything other than an overwhelming success when you see how these guys immediately translate into other environments, Like the Thompson twins both come in and like just immediately buy into the team concept, play their role, behave like professionals. Like even like Rob Dillingham just going into Kentucky and immediately becoming one of the best pick and role players in the country.
You know, Alex going over to the NBL and just immediately functioning as a professional. And I think that that speaks very highly to just the type of preparation you were putting those guys through. You know, I was listening to a podcast you did earlier this year with Kevin O'Connor, and I remember you were talking a lot about the weight room, and like, how much this is kind of a little bit of a detour here, but how much do you think the weight room factors in in young
player development? I find it to be super under emphasized around the country, and I think that, like I think you can tell just by your guys's prospects coming out, they're more developed in that regard. You have to be strong to play against grown men. Is that something you guys emphasize heavily?
Oh yeah, we focus a lot on it.
Our guys lift, They lift four times a week, sometimes five times a week, and sometimes guys live twice a day, you know, depending on their needs. We try to stress that A lot a lot of guys come in here very foreign to the weight room. You know, those old myths that people talk about how weights throw your shot off and all of that crap.
Like coming here with all of those those excuses.
But we have a bunch of professionals in our training on our training staff that know better, and then we have people that have you know, professional and high level basketball experience that can speak to those things and have these guys like call Bs on a lot of that stuff. So we have a heavy emphasis on the weight room and getting stronger and understanding that this is a grime man, and like your body has to be mature and develop, and then it's injury prevention, right like, because just having
a strong body helps all of those things. So there's a heavy emphasis on strength and conditioning in our program and our guys in the weight room every day.
Yeah, I got lucky because I was super skinny and I had a stress fracture in my foot between my first two seasons, and so for two months I had no choice but to just lift, and I put on like twenty pounds of muscle. And when I went into the next season, I was like, oh my god, everything is so much easier. Like it's crazy how much that goes under the radar. I think it's such an important part of development. So one last thing before we start getting into the players, like talk a little bit about
the other benefits you provide for the players. Because I was doing some research and it seems like you guys have things set up where they can, like we saw with Rob Dillingham, go to college if they're not ready to do something professionally right away, or they have like scholarship programs available for players who don't decide to go professional. Talk about that a little bit.
Well, we in year one, our only option was to provide guys with what we call professional contracts. And obviously at that time in IO wasn't as prevalent or even really talked about as much. I don't even think it was a thing. And you know, but those guys had to give up their college eligibility in order for.
That to happen.
After that year one, we were able to work with the NCAA and come up with a scholarship option for our guys. And now we steer guys pretty much away from the pro contract thing. We want to provide optionality. I think that's how biggest advantage that we have. And then some guys, you know, they still come in and bet on themselves and selves and it's hard for us to argue with that.
It's hard for us to say no, don't do that.
I mean, if that's what they want to do, that they've discussed with their family, agents, advisors and all of those things. Then who are we just stand in the way of that. But you know, obviously there's rules right for the CBA to collective bargains agreeing.
So a guy can come here like Sayer Rob.
Dillingham his senior year, he could have stayed if he wanted to done a postgrad year here and then gone to the draft after that, because that's just what the rules are. We have that option for our guys. And some guys that did a post grad year here and still went to college, they just wanted to be better prepared for that. A prime example of that would be Trey Parker who just went to North Carolina State. So we provide optionality for our guys. A guy like Alex
Aar and Tyler Smith and he Dona Monza. Those guys came here on professional contracts, graduated, stayed here and then went on to play in the G League for a year to better prepare for what they're getting ready for now. So there's a lot of different and Alex are again he went to PURT playing Australia from here. So I think for us, the flexibility and optionality again is something that is that gives us a huge advantage in any other place, anywhere else in this.
Space vital because this is the range of age, like between sixteen and twenty, that's the range where basketball players entire destiny is, like you never know what's going to happen, so much can change in a year, you know, and like you can go from being a guy who's a fringe prospect to a bona fide lottery prospect or vice versa. So it makes sense to have that flexibility there for them.
So all right, let's get into let's get into Alex ar and Rob Dillingham, Tyler Smith, three really fun prospect prospects in this year's draft. So Alex Aar is in contention for the number one overall pick. Why do you think he's deserving of that spot?
Well, a couple of reasons.
Number one, I'll just say it, I think he's the best prospect in the draft. His size, his versatility, just the things he can do on both sides of the basketball. And you know, the biggest thing I'd say is that he has all the things that where the NBA is trending right like he has that when min Yama Porzingi's you know, type of game in that it's super versatile. He has size, he can step out and shoot the three, he can stretch the floor, he can run the floor,
he can post up. He's long, so he can defend the rim. I just think he has all the tools to be that. I think he is like the best prospect in the draft and probably the person that has the brightest future in the highest ceiling.
Rob.
You know, I know you're not getting in the Rob yet, but I think Rob is probably the best score and probably well not even probably, I would I would adamantly say he's the best. He's the most confident player in the draft, a guy that can just score from anywhere on the court and literally has the shortest term memory of anyone that I've ever met in my life missing
the shot and there's almost like forgot about it. So though, you know, those two guys in particular, just I don't bring a ton of value to any organization that's going to pick them. But Alex is, to me, without question, that consensus number one pick, and I think he's the best player in the draft.
Well, defensively, he's already awesome, and he projects to defend really well in a bunch of key NBA coverages, and as we know, like the ability to guard and pick and roll is like absolutely vital in the NBA, just
because the level of guard play that we see. But what's fascinating to me is there's so much discussion around him on the offensive end, and like whether or not he's going to be able to develop into what a good enough offensive player to be able to play the four potentially if that's what he has to play, depending
on what kind of team he ends up with. I am more optimistic with him mainly just because, like you mentioned, the direction of the game is going, like so many more of these teams are running five out offense and in the five out system, like ball handling, shooting just in general, like the ability to read and react and just to to oversimplify it, to walk and shoot gum as a big is like so important in the modern NBA because you're operating in space so much more, the
balls in your hands so much more, and so like I actually view him as the kind of like quintessential modern NBA five out big in the sense that he's comfortable with the ball in his hands, he can run, dribble, handoffs, he can keep it if he if it's the read there, if his big guy's showing on the other end of the DHO, he can keep the ball and go to the basket. I think I liked some of the reps he was getting in the NBL too, with Bryce Cotton and getting short roll reps and making passing reads out
of that. Like to me like the offensive development piece will come down to his shooting. But also it seems to me by the numbers that he's been making year over year improvements. So talk a little bit about Alex's work, ethic and how and the stuff he's putting in behind the scenes to improve as a shooter.
Yeah, he came here as a very young, skinny kid. Once he got here with us and year one that we were here, and it was just like you could see that he had all the talent. They had, the tools, he had, the foundation. It was there and his brother, I think, Olivier, I think you can credit a lot of.
You know, what he is, what he does on the.
Court, those his demeanor, his his work, credit a lot of that to him as well having him in his life. But Alex had all the tools already. It was just a matter of maturing from a physical standpoint, because you knew that he would play three, four, maybe some five, depending on you know, the team he went to, uh, you know, the offense, the schemes, all of those things. So he knew he had to get better and stronger.
So he started lifting twice a day. And then you can tell throughout the season and throughout the time that he was Once his body started to develop a little more and he started to get stronger than his aggression level got better, right, He started to attack the basketball, He started to average more rebounds, he started to post up a lot more. He started to be way more physical on the just just the offensive end of the floor.
He was always good defensively. He was always could move his feet.
In fact, we would put him on you know, the Thompson Twins during you know, the times that they played each other, even in the finals. You know that the year he was here, he was the guy that took on that matchup and did a great job at it. So defensively, he was never really lacking. It was just he just needed, you know, to get more physical, and I think he did that once he started to lift a little bit more and put his body, you know, through the test of just trying to build that strength.
You know, one of the best decisions that he made, quite frankly, was to go and test those things out in Perth in Australia because it was something that he probably felt like he needed.
And there's not a lot of us that would disagree with that.
Like he wanted to see how ready that he could be, and we were bringing in much younger guys.
The year after that that that he left, so for.
A lot of reasons, it made sense, right And then I think he went there and still was able to play extremely well, play extremely hard. You know, the physicality caught up, the weight room stuff started to catch up to him, and then like that was one of those tests, to be honest with you, were like he knew that he had to be physically strong to play with those guys at their aggression level. So he met them there and now you know, he's just going to continue to
work that way because he's just a workhorse. He comes from a great family. You know, he appreciates every opportunity to get better. You can throw constructive criticism his way and it's never going to be something that he's going to be upset with he takes it well and he just he's a He's a tremendous kid. So I think he's just gonna be a great asset to anyone who picks him to be honest.
Yeah, not to harp on the weight room thing, but there's another element to it too. It's like confidence, like when you've been lifting and you walk in the gym, you're like, yeah, I'm big, Like I can hang with these guys. You know, like I could see that that's what causes him to be more aggressive because it's like you just you just feel like a bigger, stronger man.
It gives you the confidence to do that sort of thing. Yeah, the offensive development piece is going to be interesting because like what would be really fascinating is if he did end up functioning more as a wing, like as a four, and you put him next to more of like a bruising center. Then like if it not only in switching
schemes where he's guarding guys on the perimeter. And I'm glad you pointed out that him getting reps against the Thompson Twins, because that's kind of the exciting thing with him is like he can really slide his feet he could slide his feat well and he's got good instincts and he can obviously contest really well with his length.
But like putting him next to a big, bigger center too, Like you can imagine him kind of functioning as the low man and an NBA defense working along the baseline, like grabbing defensive rebounds, helping him pick and roll, closing out the shooters in the corner. Like that's a new thing we've seen in the NBA. Giannis has been doing this for the Bucks forever. It's like that defender that can like that can block shots at the rim, but also like get to the corner and kind of be
in two places at once. It allows you to load up the strong side without leaving anything open. It's such a valuable archetype of player, and that's kind of what I see him being. But let's let's get Let's get one last thing with Alex card before we move on. Do you like his fit with Trey Young, Like if Atlanta were to keep the number one overall pick and take him, do you think he fits out well there with him functioning more as like a pick and roll.
Big Yeah, I do. I like him functioning with Trey's
a great pick and roll player. So to put a guy like Alex Saar with his versatility, being able to stretch the floor, being able to roll if that pick and roll is switched somehow from whoever's guarden trade, it just creates so many mismatch on opportunity, right, And then you know, having a guy like Clint Capella down there to protect the rim, only to have Alex Sar also helping you protect the rim, and that's just it's a lot of rim protection and the pain for them for
a team that's not very very, very good on the perimeter defensively, right, And I think that's just valuable. But him and Trey Young together, like again, I think it's just it speaks to the versatility of what you can do with that pick and roll, all the creativity that you can have off of that pick and roll, off Alex is popping, if Trey is dragging his man out of Alex rowling, that they decide to switch, because so many teams switch pick and rolls, now someone's going to
have to help. So I just think with Alex's versatility on the offensive end and the things that he's going to become, what he's going to become offensively because you can see it even when in women Yama, when he like from game one to Game eighty two was a total different Victor offensively, right, Like it was just a matter of reps and confidence and just getting to know the layer of the land in the NBA game. And I think that is what Alex can be.
I think there's some cor Larry's two with Victor play in a year professionally against men and coming over and the same sort of thing with Alex that I think will help. Let's move on to Rob so has this super successful season at Kentucky. Like, I don't think people realize like how rare it is to have a guard be as efficient as he wasn't pick and roll, like, especially at the college level, because there's a lot of volume scoring guards at that level, but they're usually not
super efficient. But like, he just had an awesome season at Kentucky. So, tell us a little bit about your experience with Rob Dealingham and like, were you surprised by his success at Kentucky at all?
No, I was the biggest thing that surprised me was how well he accepted his role coming off the bench. Oh and and you know, I'm I think Cal Party that was a genius by him to bring him off the bench and allow Rob to be Rob.
You know, he's not a guy.
That he probably thought that like, he couldn't put him in the starting lineup with all of that, right, and he still be able to be him. But having a guy like Rob be your first player off the bench, that just it makes your team deeper, right, and you know him and Ree Sheppard running that second second unit. It's just it may be lethal actually surprising that they didn't, you know, go further in the tournament.
That's a whole nother story.
But dude from Oakland hitting all those threes.
I think he I think he was great. I think when he came here, I don't know if Rob would have accepted that role as well as he did had he not come to Ote first, Like I just I just don't know if.
He would have.
He may have, but I don't I don't think he would have. And I think that speaks to the development piece that we do here. And it's like we were able to show Rob and kind of tame like the inefficiency right and help him to be more efficient. And then I think once he saw that, and once he start believing that, then he just became a different animal.
Because you get a guy with that talent.
That type of confidence, that type of shot making ability to also now be efficient in that, then it just makes you that much more dangerous. And I think that's what he turned into at Kentucky. And then, like I said earlier, he's probably the most confident player right now in the draft, Like Rob probably feels like he's you know, I'm sure he feels like he should go number one, right.
That wouldn't not surprise me at all. So I'm very happy and excited for him to.
Yeah, the role that he had at Kentucky is interesting to me because ironically, the player that he reminds me the most of when I watch him is Malik Monk in the sense that is like it's a lot of like start stop quickness, like really quick first step, deceptively super explosive too. He's that doesn't quite have the length that Malik had, but his play style kind of reminds
me a lot of him. And and we've seen Malik turn into a super useful NBA player in a role in Sacramento where he kind of functions as the sixth man, but then will also close games of most of the time, just simply because like that dual dribble penetration of of dearon Fox and him just kind of makes everything work. And I mean, we've seen there's no shame in that
type of role. I mean, just and his deal is is viewed generally as a discount around the league, and it's twenty million a year, you know what I mean. So like that, there's there's real value in that type of player. I think. I think one of the things too, is just that I think there's it's rare to find a combination of real downhill like beat people off the
dribble quickness and lethal pull up shooting. Like most of the time you find one or the other, like this dude's a great pull up shooter, but just can't really beat people off the dribble, or this guy's great beating people off the dribble, but he's gotta suspect jump shot. And so that combination, I think those two things together
are are gonna be really valuable. And then also like he was one of the deadliest spot up players in the league last year, like that that guy attacking closeouts, hitting threes off to move off to catch, Like he just has a real like kind of microwave offensive potential.
And so let's just put it this way. Do you see his role in the NBA as being like a Malik Monk kind of like hybrid sixth man, fifth closer, or do you do you think he has the potential to play like a bigger role is more of like a starting point guard for an NBA team.
I think that depends on what team he goes to, right, Like, It's just I've been hearing a lot about the Spurs and and and that thing. You know, they have some really good guards already there from what I watched this season. But I think also Great Popovich would be tremendous for Rob right because of his basketball mind and expertise and just not overall dollars of the game.
I think Rob is more like you said that Malague.
Monk, you know, lou Will Jamal Crawford type of guy who can be your immediate six man, like a fifth starter, you know, a a sixth starter rather and then like someone that can be in the game in the fourth quarter to help close. Like he's just that good offensively. I mean, you can't leave him open. You know, he's not a liability on the offense. You know, he plays out of pick and roll, he can handle the ball with when the team is pressing up the court.
He makes free throws late in the game. I mean, I wouldn't have.
Him on the bench in the fourth quarter, like if I was coaching the team, Like he certainly would be a valuable asset to any team that.
He goes to.
But certainly that six man role, and and and again, that sixth starter is someone to me who that's him, That's who he is.
Well, and to your point, there's a reason why you
do that. It's it's because at the beginning of the game, when let's say, like for let's just take the Kings for example, like they're flowing through Sabonis and Fox and you know, Keegan Murray and Kevin Herder and like the generally speaking, it makes sense for Malik to come in with that second unit and now he's running the show and he's being super aggressive, and then you can make a call at the end of the game if it makes sense for him to be out there like that.
That legitimately is a very common NBA role at this point, Like how you start a game and how you finish a game are very different things. As far as the Spurs fit goes, I find it super fascinating just because like so like the downside, there's a couple downsides with Rob, right, it's he's a little undersized, and then there's the talk about his playmaking, which I want to get to in
a minute, but with his size. One of the things with the NBA now is like a lot of the defensive guard position is about chasing over the top of screens and kind of just being a pest, which I
actually think he can do pretty well. And what's fascinating about him with with when bin Yama is like to your point, like when you have that kind of length on the backside, it's like you were talking about the Hawks, like they have this weak perimitive personnel, but they've got what if they had like a too big look with all the size on the backside, Like I think, I think that a guy like Victor winbin Yama would give Rob Dillingham the best opportunity to be a functional defender.
Because everyone talks about defense on an island. It's not on an island. It's a five man job. And so if you can create a role for him within a five man defensive job, he can be successful. So do you agree with me, do you think that Rob could be a sex a successful defender at the NBA level?
I do.
I mean, like, listen, he's gonna be tested, right because every everyone is, especially a guy that's that's that that with his size or lack thereof, like, he's.
Gonna be tested.
He's gonna have to guard some of the most skilled guards in the league, you know, because that's just what he's going to fall into. And even if they're not some of the top guards in the league, Like there's not a guy in the NBA that playing major minutes.
It's just a bad player.
Have to guard somebody like and even if even if even if you're not even assigned to guard a guy that gets the ball a lot, or a guy that's known to make plays. For instance, if he's guarden one night he has a guard, they put him on PJ. Tucker to try to quote unquote hide him. And that's no knock on PJ. They just people just don't run plays for PJ. Right, So if you put him on, say a PJ. Tucker, like those guards are gonna find you.
That coach for that team is gonna find you. They're gonna run some sets to have PJ come set a screen to make you switch on to you know, a ball handling, you know, premier showcase guard.
Like that's just what it is. Is.
However, if you have a guy like women Yana behind you at the rim, like you have more confidence in your ability to be able to just kind of pressure the ball a little bit more knowing that he's your security blanket, you know. And besides that, since we're talking Spurs, like the Spurs have never been a horrible defensive team,
like they they play defense. The foundation of what they're done and what they have been successful at is defense in Baltimore, and so those two, you know, that's if all those things are working well together, Like, he's not gonna be a guy that just constantly getting picked on.
And even if he is.
Again, like you have a seven foot whatever unicorn standing behind you at the rim, who who loves blocking shots so and not many people challenge him.
We saw that last year.
So guys almost have a layup and just decided, now I'm gonna just dribble this back out on the other side, so I think he'll be fine in that system. I think he'll be fine in any system. But I do believe the team that drafts him has to have some type of, you know, solid defensive foundation already, some guys who can guard hands, some rim protection, because you're gonna ask him to handle the ball a lot, you know,
and make plays offensively, you know. And he's not the greatest defensive in the player in the world, but I think he's he's good enough to be able to guard guys in space and keep guys in front of him for you know, more than three to four seconds.
He's active, and he's quick, and so like there's the ball pressure element, like when you when you when you're pressure in the ball, the risk is dribble penetration, right, but when you have victor behind you, you can kind of account for that. And then the other thing too, is like their scheme set up for this sort of thing,
like they couldn't do it with Luca. I found this fascinating in the in the MAVs playoff run, because like they couldn't hedge and recover with Luca because Luca was too slow, right, So like the shooter would just get open in that sort of action, right, So like, especially in the Boston series, they were just cooking Luca by putting him in space. But like Rob is fast, So like Rob could throw a hedge and get back to a shooter and throw a good clothes out, you know
what I mean. So like his quickness in his activity I think will will allow him to be a functioning part. Again, like to your point, never going to be like a lockdown, you know, Premiere, Like that's his job is to be a defensive player. No, But like can he be a functioning part of an NBA defense? I think he's capable of it. It's just gonna be a question of whether or not can build that out. So last piece before
we move on to Tyler Smith. The second big kind of like criticism with Rob was just his willingness to function as a playmaker. And we saw a big leap in that department as he went to Kentucky. Just his willingness to put to make reads in ball screens, into trust his teammates and things like that. How was that part of his development when he was with Overtime Elite.
I mean, listen, there, some guys aren't built to pass.
That's the truth.
Like I mean, like, like you don't Rob Dillingham in to lead your team and assists, Like that's just that's just not who he is.
You know my.
Uncle, you know, right, Dominique Wilkins, he wasn't. They didn't pay him to pass, like they didn't pay Michael Jordan to lead the team and assists. It's just some guys that just like even you you take even a elikue monk, like he didn't. He's not getting a new seventy eight million dollar contract right now because of his passion ability. And I think like what we do too often is we try to find things that we can criticize people on and say, well, we want he's not a he's not a playmaker.
He doesn't.
He doesn't get enough assists. But Rob makes the right plays for Robin's also, like everyone knows who Rob is.
He's a scoring guard, you know. I mean I don't, I didn't.
I haven't checked stats recently, But I don't know if Steph Curry leaves the Golden State and assists and you know, he's still a hell of a playmaker, right, I think it's ray mind if anyone, Like I don't know for sure, but I'd have to check it, but I mean, it's just some guys.
Who, like you have to live with who they are.
And hope that they get better as time goes on at things that you want them to get better at. Robins is going to always make the right play, But Robin's also to be the first option in Rob's mind, like he's.
Coming off a screen looking to score.
And if you work with any trainers or basketball be talked to any basketball players anywhere, Like the first thing that people tell you in a pick and roll is, hey, you're the first option. They go under that screen, that's a shot they get trailing your screen, get downhill and get to the basket if someone steps up past. Like, mind you just in that thing that I just described to you, the third thing I said was past you know what? So like, it's not a lot of like
Rob is gonna be Rob. Rob is gonna make the right play. He's gonna always read, make the right read, and if someone is open, he's gonna give him the ball. But in Rob's mind, and I think in anyone who anyone who drafts him knows that in his mind, he's the first option when he has the ball because that's what you bring U Rob Dillingham in for. That's what you bring a Jamal Crawford to your team for it. That's what you bring a lot will to your team for.
Not them say that those guys don't ever pass ball, because they did. However, they passed the ball when they drew two people on them, right, like like you're supposed to. You've done your job. I have two people on the ball, now I can pass it. I did my job.
If it's me and you and I'm coaching, I like all three of those guys that I just main to take the shot or to make the play.
Yeah, I have one hundred percent agree with you. Like if your score or your score, that's that is an important archetype of NBA player. Like I don't want Kevin Durant to just go out there and try to be Lebron. I don't want him to do that.
I want him to go out there.
And shoot the damn basketball right and like, like, honestly, the way you put it is perfect. It's more about just making reads in the sense that like one of the most common coverages we're seeing in the NBA now is that high drop coverage where they bring the big up to the level and they bring the low man over, and so there's either a pocket pass or a skip pass. And as long as he can get good at making that specific read, then he can function and pick and
roll and find openings for himself. But THEO is like, if you shoot forty four percent from three and you get a look at it, we want you shooting the damn ball. We want you shooting because that's worth more points than us to driving and kicking to a lesser shooter, like and that that you need that alpha dog confidence, you need that unwavering faith in your game, and like, yeah, I agree with you. There's a there's a mandatory minimum amount of like being able to make the reads that
you have to have. But I want to score to be a score, all right, So we're gonna we're gonna move on to Tyler Smith. I find him to be a super fascinating player because he's kind of like a tweener in the sense that he's like he's kind of like a little bit of an undersized big but he's kind of like a bigger forward. But I he's got
like some legit face up games. He's good at, like like understanding angles and the pivots to get like easy hook shots and little finger rolls around the bass kind of kind of reminds me of some of your face up game back when you were playing too. To be honest, but like, I find him to be a fascinating player because in the modern NBA, like we talked about earlier, you kind of have these two bigs that are fromntioning is dribble handoff guys on both sides of the four.
You get a lot of switches, and having a big guy that can like take a smaller player down to the block and get a bucket is actually a huge advantage in order to like it's a coverage beater. It's a if you in a switch, if you have the small guy guard go on to the screen, or you need him to go get a bucket. And so tell us a little bit about Tyler Smith and how you see him functioning as an NBA player.
I think Tyler can be just as good as Michael Porter Jr. And I think he's a guy that can play some small ball four. I think he can play the three, and I also think depending on the matchup that you can put him at too. He can handle the ball. He can shoot the ball again. He's a versatile guy who's just super long. He shoots the ball at a hot clip, and he can make plays when he has the ball, like he rebounds and pushes, you know.
Not you can't just leave.
Him open to to, you know, to force him to misshots. He's not going to do that very often. I thought he's out the ball very well Big Nite on he shot the ball extremely well and finished up here shooting the ball very well before he left. But Tyler just
continues to get better. He's one of those guys too that needed the weight room, and you can tell now that since he's been getting in and out of the weight rooms, his game is just kind of starting to blossom a little bit and he's starting to find his aggression level. Speaking of Sacramento, like that's the team I like him to go to because I would love to see him playing with those guys and and maybe him
sometime at the four with Sabonus at the Vibe. You know, you got a guy who can bring those fours out of the paint, but also athletic enough to run with that team. Or you can bring him into the second unit with a Eligue Monk and have him in elite kind of just be the premier guys in that within that offense. Like he's just a cerebral, versatile guy who really is like a plug and play type of player
because he just has all the those things. He's a jack of so many trades, and I don't I'm super excited to see where he goes and lands because I think he's one of the guys that I will call the sleeper in the draft.
Well, that's the fun part about going in the late first round is you're going to go to a more developed team, like and you're gonna be given a small role that you can achieve in. It's it's it's always more fun to see that the draft prospects that kind of get an opportunity to go somewhere where they're on national TV more often and they're playing in bigger games, and that's how you get you know, Keegan Murray and and those guys getting those opportunities.
Yeah, speaking.
Like, I think this draft is full of those type of guys. The Keegan Murray's, the Jaden you know McDaniels, the PJ. Washington's of the world, the Derrick Whites, the Drew Hollidays, like guys that can come in and like the Medy and you know, guys who can help you win big games, not just regular season games, but will help you win big games. Like you saw that like this these playoffs that would be just witnessed was it was old players galore, like a lot of the stars
they showed up. But like really, like those guys are just named the guys that was like helping teams win, you know, big games. And I think that's what this draft has a lot of. And I think that's what in particular that Tyler Smith can be.
Yeah, this this draft doesn't have the major splashy like, oh my gosh, that's one of the greatest prospects in the history of basketball type of thing going on. But to your point, like those those fringe guys, those guys that just are really high level role players, they almost always end up being swing factors, Like we see playoff series swing on the third or fourth best player on the team all the time. You know what I mean, It's it's just so vitally important. I mean, you mentioned
Michael Porter Junior earlier. I root for the Lakers. I got sick of watching him make every damn shot. He took that damn series of the first round right up.
Why did so many people hate when he makes shots?
Oh my gosh, man, I was so annoyed when he was missing against Minnesota. So I thought it was fascinating because when I was watching the film on Tyler Smith, he did he was getting pushed off his spot a little bit. So he's been putting in a lot of work behind the scenes to bulk up.
Yes, he has has been in the weight room a lot of things.
That's been one of his biggest emphasis over the summer, and I know it was when in his last year here, you know, trying to be stronger, getting stronger, being able to not being pushed off his spot when he's attacked the basket, not being bumped off his drive, things of that nature. Because he's gonna have to be a guy who can score at four levels with his size, his versatility, his footwork and handle. He's a guy that like they're
gonna rely on him. I believe people are going to rely on him and asks of him to be able to be a guy that can score the rim, scored the free throw line, scoring the mid ranging post, and then a shoot three. So the weight room is going to be very vital to his development. I continue telling him that I hope he's listening.
I heard you. For his sake. I think he'll get it.
I believe so as well. And again, like his his his archetype, which is kind of like that matchup attacking forward that can also shoot the ball, I think is one of the most valuable archetypes that we see around the league right now. And I think that there's a lot of opportunity for guys like him to make good money in the league if they put the work in behind the scenes. All right, before we get out of here, I had talked to you before we started the show.
This is something that's been really fascinating to me over the course the last couple of years. And you are very deeply entrenched in player development here in the US, and obviously you've worked with players from overseas as well. But as we know, if we were ranking the top players in the league right now, you're probably going Jokic one.
You're probably putting Luca up there, You're putting Giannis up there, You're putting like the American guys that are up there are like Tatum, You know, Anthony Edwards is on the rise, but I'm not sure he's there yet. And then there's this KD, Lebron Steph group which is kind of tailing out. So let me just let's let's start here. Actually, do you do you agree that the majority of the top players in the league are from overseas or do you think the American players are underrated right now?
That's a really good question.
I mean, just if I think about, like who I think the top players in the NBA are right now, I mean, to me, Luca Is is arguably the best player in the league, right like Joka follows by, you know, i'd say Joka, but like that's two guys, you know. And then like in no particular order, I gotta throw Jaylen Brown in there, Anthony Edwards in there, I gotta throw Lebron and they I gotta throw Stephan there. I gotta throw KD in there, I gotta Devin Booker in there.
I gotta you know, throw I mean, shoot, you got Yannis too, I mean, but he's not even like I mean, I just I still think.
You gotta go through us. But I do believe.
That, you know, international basketball players have gotten exponentially better, and quite frankly, like that has a lot to do with how they've come up. Like Luca ben has been a pro since he was fourteen, you know, and you know he's been playing with grown men, you know, since he was you know, before he could drive. And that system that that that ecosystem that they're in and and and the way that they go about doing it, it's similar to how we do things here at OTE.
It's basketball, basketball, basketball and everything else. You know.
That's not to mention, that's not to say that all the things that everything else are less important, right because academics are important, right, Like those things are important.
However, it's like let's be efficient with it. And I think that's what we've done.
We kind of you know, copy that model in a sense, right, Like they're like, let's just cut out all the fluff, focus on the most important things that are that everything else.
But focus on basketball.
You go to a regular high school here in America, as you know, it's like you're in school for eight hours a day. You're sitting in classes, and half of those classes you're not even gonna need or use the stuff from it, right, That's the first thing. And then you know, you get out of school and you can't use the gym because the volleyball team is it's their season, you know, or wrestling or you know, cheerleading or whatever the case may be. So you don't have access to
a gym. And by the time you do get access to a gym, your brain is fried. And so it's the mind in your body is just tired, so you don't you may not work as hard that day as you would in a normal day.
Where you have access to a gym.
Us we give our guys access us to a gym until about midnight, and their focus is on basketball player development, getting bigger, getting stronger, getting faster, all of those things.
Most of their day that's taken up of those things.
So I think that international players, I don't think it's that they just it's just more talent over there there. It is a lot of talent internationally, and I respect and appreciate that talent. But I also think they just have a system that's caught up to us now because they like that system. Now you're starting to see that that system has worked. Right, Like Luca at fourteen wouldn't have been Luca who he is now.
Him at fourteen.
He just stayed in that type of system every day those years prior to coming over here, and you're just seeing the I guess, the benefits of that work that he put in back then. Right, Like he was built to play professional basketball. He was prepared for it at such a young age. And I think that's the model
that we're using. We're preparing our guys to be leaps and bounds above the rest of the guys that's coming in even in college, Like you get twenty hours a week or something like that prior to the season start. We have no cap on, you know, the work or the time that our guys can put in in our building. Right, Like you can go it's like you're at twenty hours by Wednesday, you know what I mean. So it's like it's just a matter of the time that you get
to put in. Those guys aren't internationally just born right Luka Donchets.
They worked that. They work to become that.
Like obviously, yeah, God sprinkled a little extra on him.
They worked to be that. Can you imagine Anthony Edwards.
In HOTE system from the time that he was a freshman, I mean, he was already a monster as a high school player, whole body developed, super athletics, strong, super talented. But you take all of that and you give our system to that, and you mix his skill level with that, I mean he would be leaps and bounds above how good he is right now. So I just think it's a matter of accessibility, and I think it's a matter of just the opportunity and the time that you have
to work on your game. But the international game is certainly on the way. I looked at the teams they showed the graphic ESPN show the graphic of the teams on social media, like the Olympic teams, and like, it's so many NBA guys on different Olympic teams that it's like, shit, like this is gonna be. It's gonna be, it's gonna be tough, you know, Olympic run for our for our team. But then I look at our.
Team and I'm like, our team is ridiculous.
The USA team is stacked, so it's like you have to be all twelve of those guys, you know, whereas Canada has three guys from the NBA, Like, of course they probably have some other guys that are just are good. I'm sure, but you know, in terms of pinnacle of basketball, they have, you know, I think it's three guys like you know, yeah, Shaye, you gotta Jamal Murray, Paul Murray, you have RJ.
Barrett, Dylks, I think that Brooks.
You know, four guys, Dylan Brooks.
So that's four guys right who one of them is want and a half superstars. You have Shae who come on his way to being that, and then you know Jamal Jamal Murray who is missed the playoffs. You know, those are the two guys. They're they're NBA role players and I have a ton of respect for both of their games.
But like our team.
Has twelve legitimate stars, you know what I mean, It's like that's gonna be hard to be So I think we we we're certainly right there, and I think I think still in the conversations as the best. But the international guys was certainly, you know, neck and neck with us, and they figured out the platform to be able to get themselves and make themselves, you know, extremely prepared for NBA basketball.
Yeah, I think the I think there's still a massive gap between the US and all of the other countries individually, but I do think you could say us versus the world has gotten close, if not the world has taken over because of those.
Times that gap business wide anymore.
Yeah, And I'm actually really glad I asked you because you brought up something that I hadn't even thought about,
which is just like availability of resources. Because I coach at the high school level here in Tucson, getting the gym is such a pain in the ass, Like just getting access to the gym is such a pain, and like most of the time I have to go up there super early in the morning and ask the kids to come in before school to get extra skill reps in because you're fighting with the volleyball team or or whoever it is. That's even the football team now in Arizona.
Because it's so hot here in Arizona, the football team will use the gym for their walk through. I'm like, what are we even doing here? These are basketball courts. Like, so it's there's definitely something to be said about Luca from age fourteen being in a professional program and just like learning how to play as a professional through that
entire process, and it just accelerates the entire thing. And I mean to put it even further, like I agree with you in the sense that I think the US is bad and hopefully over time Elite will help address this problem. But like we're bad at like identifying who our prodigies are and like pulling them out of that stupid high school system and putting them into a more defined professional basketball type of system. Because that's the thing.
Too, not about the prospect here overseas internationally, it's about the prospect, and it's about what's best for the prospect.
Here, it's about what's best.
For the agent, the parent, the advisor, the coach, and everyone that's around them right internationally is selfless.
They're like, no, go represent us right here.
We're like, no, I have to keep you with me so I can get something out of that, like and and too often that's I think that's what we do. Like it's teams that we tried to schedule to play us here at OTE that won't play us because their coaches are saying to us, we can't bring our players in you guys building, because they're gonna like it too much and then we'll lose them. Well, you want the player,
what what is it, Matt? But it is better for the kid exactly because I think I feel like if Duke called said coach and said, hey, we have a head coaching job for you right now, you can be the head coach of Duke University, that coach wouldn't hesitate
to take that deal or take that offer. But that's the thing we we We we act like as if we own players here, like like, no, it's my player, so he has to do everything with me so I can get something out of it, as opposed to like Lucas Slovenia, They're like, no, go represent us, Go be
the best player in the NBA. Go compete for that, so we can be proud of that, right Like, And it's it's that that's a that's a large piece to it that I just never will be able to wrap my hands around my son, for instance, right he's just turned sixteen years old.
The freshman he was.
He's here at OTE and just finished up his first year here though Toe and ended up being a starter for half the season and all of the playoffs. Youngest guy we've ever had start in Ote. Like I could have easily been like, no, I want you to stay in normal high school and be the man and get all this notoriety and attention and all of that, but like no, like let's let's delay all that. Do what's
best for you now. So then by the time, like you can, you will get exponentially better here competing against these guys every day, and then by the time you're a senior, you know, the show could be yours. So like that's the selflessness, right, It's like give up, give up that instant thing with that big fish, small pond mentality, and go be a part of something bigger that can help you in turn be a whole.
Lot more better.
Yeah, and you got to learn how to play with and against really good basketball players, and so like putting them in an environment like that, that's the advantage with Luca going and playing with pros at fourteen, like because if you had to for me, like, I find it fascinating because I think our skill development in the US
is great, Like we are obsessed with skill development. We produce so many guys who can dribble and shoot at a high level, but I think the ability to play with people is lacking a little bit in our American basketball player development because of that, Like guys run off to their AAU team and average thirty five points a game on twenty five shots a game, and they don't know how to play alongside other really good players like
you have to. You have to be able to function next to good players, because that's what Division one basketball is like. That is what playing overseas is like. That is what playing in the NBA is like. And I could I could sit here and complain about AAU basketball and different things like that all day long, but I'm gonna I'm gonna save your time. Uh, Damien, I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to come hang out with
us for a little bit. Is there anything else you wanted to shout out before we got out of here today?
No, just man, just excited for our guys alumni. That's in a couple of days. I'm just super excited for those guys and and and and looking forward to seeing you know, where they go, you know, and how well and just ready to go.
Yeah, we're gonna know a lot more here in a couple of days. It's I can't believe it's right around the corner. Feels like the finals. Just end it all right, That's all we have for today, Damian, thanks again for coming to hang out. That's all we got. Guys. We're gonna be back tomorrow morning with Sam Bassini from The Athletic to look at the rest of the first round of the NBA Draft. I will see you guys.
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