Jodee Peevor: The real funnel fix starts with a click

Welcome to the Spotlight Session. It's a game-changing interview series that showcases award-winning agency owners to share secrets of starting and scaling a marketing business.

Hello, hello everyone. Welcome to our podcast here at High Level. We call them the Spotlight Sessions. Today I have a very special guest and if you are... watching this session anywhere on any of our social platforms i want you to lean in you're going to learn a lot of cool things from a previous kajabi power user and essentially a big agency that she ran and she came over to high level not too long

long ago, I want to say a couple of years now. And Jody Paymore has done a lot of cool things. But today, with the session in mind, we are going to title this podcast, Beyond the Optin. the quiz. the click and the real funnel flick so we'll talk about three different things to kind of help you understand some possibilities with high level but before i go any further let me read out the bio i have and all the notes i have for

Jodi. Jodi founded her full-service marketing agency back in 2005 and has grown from strength to strength by developing the perfect upscaling and downscaling methodology called Architect. your joy. which she is sharing at this year's ultimate sass summit originally known as joomla jody running joomla day uk for many years jody later became a kajabi founder eight years ago and provided

Limitless tech support for free to their user group stumbling across high level. In 2023, September-ish, marked a beautiful pivoting. point for the entire business you signed up as a sas pro and the rest is history um jody thanks for saying yes Oh, my gosh. Just really pleased to be here. And it was lovely to see you at the Sass Summit the other week in London. So good. It was a great time.

Jody, what's your story? I know I read out a big old bio and notes and everything, but what's your story in digital marketing? For those that don't know you just yet, I know a little bit about your story and even I'm curious.

of like the steps that you took the journey that you took so before we go into the podcast content yeah tell us your full story i think I can really sum it up back in 2013 when digital marketing really hit the scene and everybody was it was the big like AI is now it was the big thing oh my gosh digital marketing it wasn't just marketing anymore

it was for online businesses and online businesses in 2012 2013 really took off it was when we first started talking about optins and lead magnets and all of these kind of things ryan dice came on the scene with his digital marketer labs and it all just there was a big pivot in about 2012 2013 but i realized that the way that i marketed was a little bit different

to the other people out there the kind of the american guru marketing sort of buy it in the next 20 seconds or i'm going to kill your grandmother and bury her under the patio you know that was that was kind of the vibe for a good six or seven years that i was like oh no i just i can't do it and if i can't do it there's probably other clients out there who don't want to do it either so i kind of stood separately to all of that and i think as a result over the last 15 20 years i've

really niched a beautiful way of selling, a beautiful way of digitally building relationships. so that you can grow your online business and create a framework that just lasts for years and years my when i built out my funnel it was back in 2015 and you know what i haven't touched it since and it that's 10 years

Most people would tell you that they have rebuilt their funnels every two years and, you know, taking it all back to basics and started again. Mine just freaking works. And I think because it's about relationship building and it's because it's. doing it digitally but not transactionally it it just works and i want to share it with everybody

I love that. So help us understand the business model a little bit. What kind of marketing agencies have you built? And what is it today in essentially, I would say, SaaS or SWAS, agency with services?

right so help us understand the business model a little bit so when i first started out in 2005 i was solopreneur pr all of that kind of stuff looking after websites building from scratch oh god in the days when you had to code your own blooming pages hell um then i grew a team beautiful team over the next say 10 years and we there was about four or five of us and then covid hit 2019

Jesus tonight. I ended up with 14 people in my team for the next three and a half years. And that really changes your agency. When you go from five, which is a lovely dynamic, to 14, suddenly there's a lot more staff organising, staff dynamic, et cetera, et cetera. And that's where the Architect Your Joy framework came out, which I spoke about at the Sasspreneur Summit in London.

is helping your team work and live in their joy. It's not just about the work they do for you, the tasks they do for you and the day to day work with you. It's about what they're doing in their life. outside of work that you can help them achieve like if somebody wants to travel the world if somebody wants to train to be a midwife if somebody wants to um look after lemon sharks in the seychelles you know you're helping their

working and their life and helping them follow their joy in both places. And I ended up with a team that was just with me for years and years and years. They don't need to go anywhere else because I was making sure they were truly fulfilled in all areas, which... is what i've called my architecture joy framework and it's yeah really proud of that i love that so what's your journey to high level i know you were part of a lot of other platforms

i've as platforms have come along i've kind of gone you know and chosen my route so started with joomla wordpress yuck um Never did Squarespace and Wix, left those well alone. Then I found Kajabi in 2015. I was Kajabi ambassador for nine years. And in 2023... I found High Level in September and I thought, oh my gosh, this is the universe giving me the answer because I was pretty fed up and done with the whole full service marketing agency model.

because it's exhausting i said i had 14 people on my team you know loads of clients that you're working with all the time lots of parts of the project that need to be i mean we were in click up every second of every day because you can't not do that And I remember saying, tail end of 2022, I want to get out of this full service marketing agency. I want to do something differently using my skills and my experience. High Level came along and...

I just thought, oh, my God, this is exactly what I want to do. I bought the full agency SAS Pro model 497 within four hours of finding high level. I just went, yeah. And now I've got a beautiful mastermind I run every week for all of my sub account holders. I help them with all of their tech support issues, which is beautiful. So they get me and my team just chatting away on WhatsApp or direct on Zoom. And I'm...

more consulting, if you like. I'm showing them how to do it. I'm leading them instead of doing it. And so when I get off a call, I don't have a massive to-do list of loads of stuff that I need to do for clients because they're all doing it they've got their own not agency as in marketing agency they've got their own agency their own own autonomy so that they're building out stuff they get to learn and love high level

because it is a hugely gorgeous platform but some people get overwhelmed with how much it can do so i keep them on the side of the fence bolson where you're excited and inspired rather than the other side of the fence where you're a bit um overwhelmed so yeah it's September 23 to today, nearly two years of incredible joy, just being able to give all of my knowledge without having to be full service anymore. It's wonderful. Love it. Thank you. High level.

I love it. I'm going to sidestep here for a quick second, just so it's in my mind. I got a feeling you're not American, right? So help us understand where are you based out of? What kind of clients do you serve? I know you're in the UK, if I remember correctly, but help us understand the dynamic of a European agency in general for us. Americans in general that are watching and just not familiar.

Okay, so I'm right in the centre of England in a beautiful place called the Cotswolds. So my house was built in 1560. It's got a serious amount of history and ghosts and gorgeousness. And I... Yeah, I look after all sorts of different kinds of clients, but they are all running online businesses. My tagline is I build beautiful online businesses with you, but there's no sort of, I've not niched down into one industry. I've got dog trainer. I've got an artist. I've got.

coaches, I've got yoga teachers, I've got nutritionists and dietitians, loads of different people, but all who are driven and determined. who love getting stuck into the tech and being responsible for their own growth and scaling and sales. And yeah, it's beautiful. It's like a gorgeous family. I love it. So beyond the opt-in.

the quiz the click and the real funnel flicks i i love that so lay the stage for us on what you have in mind to just share okay so in a nutshell and After I've said this, you can start watching if you want, because this is the key. In a nutshell, the most important part of a sales funnel is not the sale, which is what everybody is obsessed about and fixated on the sale. It's not. It's about when they choose you as their guide.

So you might find that somebody is watching you, reading your social media posts, reading your blogs, watching your podcast, subscribing to your YouTube channel, whatever it is. They might not actually make the sale and become.

a client for a significant amount of time or six minutes i mean i found high level and became a client four hours later but i chose high level as my guide during those four hours and then the sale came and when you completely fixate on the choose your guide stage of your sales funnel instead of the sale oh my god a it's just much more beautiful and abundant and fabulous but b

The stress and the cortisol and the icky transactional stuff that comes from fixating on the sales stage all disappears. And you're just suddenly in a really beautiful, abundant marketing mindset where. You're chatting with people and giving them your wisdom and supporting them in things and showing them how to do things. I'll give you a really prime example. The high level support group. Oh, my God. It's madness.

If I go in there and somebody writes a post and I used to do exactly the same with the Kajabi user group for nine years, I answer them and I say, go there, click that, do this, go there, you'll see this, click that, put that setting done. And they go, oh, my God, you know, the other 50 people who replied on that post just said they were going to send me a DM. I'm not interested in this whole, you know, pushy, pushy thing.

like all these DMers, it's horrendous and transactional and icky. I'm interested in giving my advice, giving my experience, giving my knowledge. And it all comes back around Paulson because people... I've had people work with me who said, you know what, I've been following the Kajabi user group for five years and I'm now finally ready to work with you. They chose me as their guide years ago.

or three months ago or six hours ago. But that stage in the sales funnel is the most important one. I love that. I think this is a huge pivot that... We even made as high level, if you ask me, right? In the initial stages, it was like tools, tools, tools. Now, we are starting to become a lighthouse of business models. Right. We're starting to pivot into the world of, okay, you come to high level to build the business.

And it's going beyond just a tool. So this is something that we had to learn as a corporate company over time. So Jody, I've got a question. What are things that a marketer can do today to become that? guide like what what what is the standard of guide look like what are the things that they should foundationally have to position themselves as a guide okay so content

both on your website and out in socials. I call the content on your website the concept videos. So on my website, you'll see I've got six concept videos, which are key things that... kind of assimilate people into my world and my thinking and my perspectives and my logic and the way that I do things in my marketing agency they watch those six videos the beautiful thing is

I'm English. I've got huge energy. You met me at the London summit. You know, I'm the same all the time. I'm always buzzing. If that energy doesn't resonate with you, if you go, oh, my gosh, she's too much. Or the English accent's annoying and you're like, no, I need to work with somebody with a different accent. You will get that from my concept videos and you never, ever reach out for a call. But people who come to me and reach out for a call and say, I want to work with Jodie.

They've already watched those concept videos. And so 99% of any of the stuff that people would normally faff about with on a sales call, it disappears because they've already decided, they've already chosen you as their guide. They already want to work with you.

So you've got essential concepts videos on your website, your key concepts, your perspectives, your myth busting, your change of perspectives, all of those things about the way that you do things maybe slightly differently to other people.

so people go oh my god this makes so much sense yes this is brilliant i love it key concepts everyone's got some and if you haven't maybe you shouldn't be in business being brutal you know if you haven't got some concept videos to write and record and put on this page maybe stop now then you've got social media content i call them your wisdom videos so tiny little nuggets that are less you know enough to be a reel so less than 90 seconds

gorgeous little wisdoms where you can just tell people little things that just show you as being a person who is worthy of being their guide. Again, not only is the wisdom key because it's the nugget, but your energy. your persona, your accent, your hair, the size of your nose, do you wear glasses or not? All of these things, people are either going to resonate with you or they're not. So they're actually polarizing both of those types of content.

Your wisdom videos and your concept videos are polarizing because anybody who doesn't want you as their guide makes a decision before they even get in contact with you. And then if they do get on a call with you and come to sign up, you know.

hey they've already passed through the choose a guide stage we're good you know what i love about what you're saying is you're not positioning this as like an industry expert you're positioning as if who i resonate with which is different right you work with several industries right and i when i had my agency i went all in on

becoming the dental marketing Invisalign guy. Like I ran Facebook ads Invisalign. And that's literally my lane. But over time, I realized there was a specific type of dentist that resonated with me more. Right. And there was a certain type of business that.

would reach out to me or they they were just easier to close or they just was less resistive in even a strategy session right um can you share your philosophy on that maybe you don't have to niche down like like everybody thinks yeah everyone makes it a big thing have you niched down have you niched down i think every single niche that you have is an extra source of income

So when I work with people, I've got something I've called the Get Jodified formula, which is gateway, environment, topic and journey. You might have 50 gateways. Gateways are different types of people. So for me, I've got a dog trainer and an artist and a... yoga practitioner those are three gateways every single time you want to grow your business

You don't have to grow vertically. You can grow horizontally by just adding another gateway, selling the same content that supports people, but messaging it differently in the funnels. And that's a whole new source of income. Imagine going back into COVID. You weren't robust and resilient if you niched down. Imagine if your niche was hospitality, your entire company would just boom, completely like... Whereas if you had six gateways and one of them was hospitality, yes, you lost that chunk.

But you were robust and resilient because you had others. So I think it's a massive thing to have lots of gateways. Absolutely. So beyond just the opt-in, what I'm learning is... the brand positioning of what you stand for and what you don't stand for it doesn't have to be just you i mean it can be a whole team of people like high level is not one person i know that we've got our lovely trio of awesome people but

it's beyond that it's the team and so very quickly you'll see if your team isn't aligned with you and your message and your brand persona you know if you've got staff members being rude to clients on the phone or being terse with them. And vice versa, if you've got clients being reached your team, you know, that's a client you need to fire. I always used to say to my team members every Monday morning, is there anybody that makes you feel heavy?

Is there anyone that's making you anxious when you've got a Zoom call booked with them? Because then I'd be keeping a really close eye and saying to the client, I don't think this is working because you're making my team really anxious. But it works both ways.

You've got to have a team that resonates with your energy and the persona of your brand. Not to say that it's a performance in any way. I mean persona as in, you know, the unique personality of your brand. And everybody needs to show up with that.

That makes sense. And one of the things that resonated with me just now is the gateway concept, right? And there's a lot to that because, you know, if you're in the world of high level... myself and chase buckner we're we're designed yin and yang right that's the way we realized

The folks that follow Chase do not follow me and the folks that follow me do not follow Chase. We just know that. And we noticed that early on and we leaned into it. And, you know, I love Chase. We're like, you know, brothers, you know, we can.

I can read his mind at this point in some sense and vice versa. And it's funny because I tend to attract a certain... age group a certain type of entrepreneur and he tends to do the same thing i mean the opposite and we now see this in our teams right so john bermudis came in haplin is now you know on the camera a lot kelsey austin there's a lot of people now there's like eight nine figures that we're building and every single one

brings in a different type of gateway yeah exactly exactly and every gateway is a new source of income and you know because eventually you'll cover the whole spectrum of people absolutely and it doesn't have to be a persona or a person it could be a certain layer of industry or certain price point or a certain genre or certain um like some industries for example

work well on LinkedIn and some do better on TikTok. So you can have different types of gateways. So if you're starting out, Jody, which gateway should I prioritize? I think the key thing is the one that brings you joy. You know, my architecture joy framework. I have a four step question that I asked. So can I do it? Do I want to? Does it bring me joy?

But also, am I any good at it? Because if you love something and it brings you joy, but you're really bad at it, you need to go away and do some training, right? You need to get good at it. And if there's stuff that you don't love and doesn't bring you joy, but you're really good at it, you need to train somebody else who loves it, but isn't very good at it. And that's why I was talking about on the stage at the London Suspirner event is, you know.

it shows you how to build a team and it shows you who to work with because if you say oh i'm working with visalign but they really drive me nuts and they're really annoying and they're really, they're not driven and determined. They're in victim mentality or whatever. You need to stop. working with that gateway find gateways that fill you with joy so that when your zoom meeting comes in

You don't go, oh, God, I'm working with that dentist. Oh, no, how awful. That's not going to light up your day. It's not going to make you bounce out of bed on a Monday morning or any morning. So aligning who you work with and what industries you work with.

with your joy is the quickest way to polarize and just choose the best gateways i love it so let's talk about the second pillar the quiz yes and the click okay So the quiz is all about helping your clients when they choose you as their guide and they come into your website environment. It's all about helping them self-identify where they are in their journey. So if we just reference back the get notified method, which was.

gateway environment topic journey so journey i believe there are 10 stages to every single industry there's from complete lack of self-awareness that they've even got a problem at zero all the way up stage nine where they're game changers in the world and they're on the world stage making huge change in that industry okay and all those steps from naught to nine you need to know where people are on that journey so that you can meet them where they are

i've been building websites since 2005. websites have changed a lot and i think we all have to realize that the biggest change is not how pretty they are or how sexy the functionality is or what code you've got It's about the change, I think, from coming to my website and let me tell you what I do to now and certainly what I've been doing over the last 10 years. Hi, tell me where you are in your journey.

And let me meet you there and tell you how we can support you. It's completely different. One is about them and the other one is about you. And if you do it my way, it's about where they are and supporting them where they are and meeting them where they are. Yeah, I'm with you. I haven't been doing this as long as you have. I started maybe 2014, I want to say. But one thing I noticed is the...

The sales structures have changed. The sales behaviors have changed. The marketing consumption behavior has changed, right? So like now. People just want you to text them at best. They don't want phone calls. It's just not normal. If a friend or a family member calls me, I feel like something's wrong versus them texting me.

something's wrong who's in hospital what's happened yeah it's urgent a phone call is urgent so it almost is invasive right so 1000% maybe the designs, the architecture of a website hasn't changed or architecture of a marketing asset hasn't changed. Definitely the psychology has shifted, especially with AI now. Is that what you're noticing across your clients as well? Massively, massively. And I think if you can build in.

however you build it doesn't have to be a quiz don't get me wrong it can be a couple of buttons on your home page but if you're saying to people where are you in your journey and then you direct them to the next step for them So I've just said to you, you know, there are 10 steps in the journey from naught to nine. If you've got a quiz and a couple of the questions in there have got conditional answers.

that if they answer this or that question, they're redirected to a different next step page that then shares with them the concept videos we talked about earlier. about what you're going to share and what you're going to do to help them at their stage in the journey. It means all your messaging can be really, really fine-tuned and you're not trying to be everything to everybody on a sales page anymore. Instead, you're able to talk to the gateway that they are.

and the journey step that they are really precisely. I love that. Now, what are other aspects of... this journey that you would feel so you have the workflows you have automations are you you know when you're still focused on essentially being the guiding light

When do you shift into that sales mode or do you not ever, do you just continue being that expert and wait for them to come your way? Like what's your, you know. Yeah, I don't, I've never had to generate leads because my.

choose your guide funnel people come into it so you know i said before that it really removes all of the cortisol of the transaction of the sales piece um yeah people just come in which is lovely and the the choose your guide funnel isn't about the sale so suddenly every piece of content you create is for your funnel Whereas if you just think Blinket about it being the sale, you're just thinking about the pieces of the funnel. Actually, it's much broader than that.

It's like all of the pages in a book all thrown across the internet. It's all your YouTube channels. It's your books. It's your podcasts. It's your concept videos. It's your social media organic videos. It's your ads. It's your Instagram. It's your TikTok. It's your conversation with someone at networking lunch. It's your cocktail party, you know, aperitif chat. It's networking at the Suspener event. All of those things, every single one is part of your funnel.

Every single one. Because at the event in London, I would have met a gazillion people who thought I was flipping awesome. And I'll have met a gazillion people who thought she's got too much energy. She's far too positive and enthusiastic for me. See, the Choose Your Guide funnel is happening all the time whenever you have interaction with anybody, whether it's a video you've recorded or content you've created or it's live. So it makes your funnel much, it's like a huge web now.

It's this massive overarching funnel instead of, you know, the old kind of DM labs, tripwire, core offer, profit optimizer. It's not linear anymore. It's this huge. massive, gorgeous web that extends to all content you've ever created. People will watch videos I created 10 years ago, and it's part of my Choose Your Guide funnel. I love that. Now...

What is the timing of this? If you're starting out brand new, where do you begin? Should I go shake hands and meet people? Is that what you're thinking of? that or do i focus on my lead magnet and run ads to it you know like or is it both you don't lead magnets i think are okay let's go back to the beginning we said about relationship building didn't we

and that the choosing guide funnel is all about relationship building rather than the transactional sale, we need to ditch the lead magnet. We need to ditch that. we need to just be honest so let's go back to 2013 and just erase that from history okay instead we're going to go back to 2012. And we're going to ask people to opt into our mailing list because they actually want to hear from us. And as a thank you, we're going to give them a PDF or a video or a workbook. Stop saying.

Here's the lead magnet. Oh, and by the way, I'm going to put you on my mailing list, but you don't really want to be on there. Because you end up filling your mailing list with crappy people who don't want your newsletter. And then you get unsubscribed and spam reported. I want you to stop.

doing free resources as the pathway to the opt-in just be really upfront build relationships with people and then when you get signups to your list guess what your list is hyper brilliantly qualified oh my god because people actually want to be on there

because they've joined your list. They've not been put into the mailing list without actually realizing they're putting into the mailing list and then they get spammed all the time. It's awful. So I recommend that people do create free resources because they're awesome. And they can be really good as part of the choose a guy funnel. But don't associate that with the mailing list. Yeah. Have them sign up to something and then ask them later if you want to. Hey.

You signed up for my free resource. Would you like to join my mailing list? I'm going to send you this newsletter once a month. Don't put the two together. I love that. You know, one thing I notice is.

in this world of software users in this ecosystem a lot of people are engineering minded they're analytical thinkers they're not you know they're very much like create a structure kind of a people right so What happens is often they think in numbers or they're numerical in how they're building, right? So everything is about the number of people on the list.

not the quality of every single person that's on the list. Like, can you go to dinner with every single lead you have in your system? And how many of those people will meet you today in person? And if they're not...

You phoned one of them and they went, what the blummin' hell are you doing phoning me? Or, oh my God, it's Jodie. Hi, why are you phoning me? Exactly. So any final thoughts on... the the second pillar we talked about the quiz and the click the structure of marketing well the beautiful thing about that is bringing high level into you know as your tech platform because it just if the user guide funnel

is so easy to build in high level because you can do the conditional redirecting when they take the self-identification quiz and it just brings people through into the right place for where they are in the journey so

It's immaculate. So thank you, HighLevel, for making that so easy with no custom coding needed. Yay. One last thing that I want to ask you is how do you define success of those systems? Like what is... good what does good look like to you well this is another reason i love high level because you can see the journey that people have taken with you so let me give you an example my artist who's based down in cornwall

She had somebody sign up to her £100 mini course. And as soon as they became a contact inside High Level, it backdated all of the previous activity that that person had done on her website.

because they could link up the ip address with the activity so yes we had form submitted course purchased at the top but going back it showed us you know what ads she'd clicked on what social media posts she clicked on it showed us what website pages they looked at before they purchased so you can already see that your choose your guide funnel is working because it might be that somebody was looking at video pages and stuff six months ago

But then the sale came two seconds ago. So you can see in high level. This is one. I used to be an accountant. I'm a huge numbers geek. I mean, oh, my God. I'm like the perfect combination of. socially able to talk to people and really geeky. It's a blessing. But I love all the numbers and having it all in one place with high level means that you can actually.

make educated decisions not guessing because you can see all the data you can see i know that's the journey they took i know they watched this or watched that or went there or did that because it's all in there in their activity i love that so when you know what good is because you've got the data to back it up you're not guessing anymore you know what's working what isn't working and you can do more of the good stuff brilliant feedback

The third pillar that we need to talk about is the real funnel fix. Like, what does that mean? Walk us through that. Well, that's all to do with the shift for the choose your guys stage. That is the key because. Everybody's funnels. If they just rethought each funnel and looked at the content they're putting out there and said, when am I? helping them choose me as their guide. Oh, I'm not. I haven't got any content that does that. Right, go and create that content.

Because you can fix any funnel. You don't have to start from scratch again and use the Choose Your Guide funnel method. You just go into any existing funnel you've got and just say to yourself, have I got my Choose Your Guide stage? And if you haven't, you dig in, you say, well, who am I talking to? Well, I'm talking to everyone. Well, that's a stupid funnel then, isn't it? Which gateway and which journey are you talking to? OK, we've got that straight. Right.

Now let's create some content about who they are and what stage in the journey they are. It will fix any funnel you've got. Your funnels aren't broken. They're just focused on the wrong stage being the success identifier. The key thing is that step before the sale when they choose you as a guy. So that is the surreal final fix. I love that. You know, what's, as you're just sharing this, one thing I'm thinking about is a lot of people.

you know there's a lot of misalignment on what is relevant content for choose your guide stage like you're describing like a lot of people just throw up a bunch of personal branded stuff and it doesn't have relevant context to the actual buyer persona that they serve do you do you notice that off

And especially with like AI, they just throw up a bunch of stuff. And I'm like, I'm like, who's going to buy what from this video? You know, it's just not connected. A wisdom video has got three pieces. So if you imagine it's one minute long.

The first six seconds are the hook because we know that's the average watch time, which is terrifying. But the average watch time of video is six seconds. So that's the hook. So you've got to polarise people in those six seconds so they stop watching you because actually we don't want them to watch if they're not the right people.

We want them to go away and keep scrolling. Because in my Choose Your Guide funnel method, we are retargeting people who watch our content. So you don't want to be wasting your money. retargeting the wrong people. So stop them watching as quickly as possible. So in the six seconds. So for example, I might do one saying, hey, do you know what the most important metric is in Facebook ads? If you don't do Facebook ads and don't run Facebook ads, you're just going to carry on scrolling.

Whereas if you do Facebook ads, you go, oh, okay, let me see what she has to say. And you carry on watching. So then I spend the next 35 seconds telling you that the most important metric in Facebook ads is the cost per thousand accounts reached.

The reason that's the most important one is because you can compare all of your different conversion stats and metrics in Facebook to that cost per thousand accounts reach. And then you know how much money you need to spend in order to scale your ad campaign. People are going, oh, my God, she's a freaking genius. This is brilliant. I've been concerned with cost per click. And actually, I need to look at a different metric as the important one.

So then the last 20 seconds is the application. This is key. So many people spout stuff on social media in whatever platform they've chosen, but they don't tell people how to apply it. No amount of learning.

is ever successful if you don't then take that learning and apply it so the last 20 seconds i say right this is the application piece of the formula you need to say what they should do with the wisdom you've just given them the teaching you've just given them so with my example i would say right i want you to go and look at the latest campaign you ran i want you to go into the columns breakdown and add that column where you can customize the columns that show

add the cost per thousand accounts reached. And I want you to compare that against the cost per click and the cost per sale and the cost per lead or all of the other metrics you will have kept before, because you'll then be able to see which campaign was actually successful. Because if you know that it was 100 links clicked for every thousand accounts reached, that is a successful ad. Whereas you might think, oh, it's CPC. No. Change the way you're looking at it.

and make it be about cost per thousand accounts for each and you'll actually be able to scale your campaign so i've not only told them what the real is about what the wisdom is about of which polarizes them really important then i've given them a really key piece of wisdom

and then i've told them what to do with it go off and do it yourself sort it out you know and comment below and tell me what your findings were or whatever if you know if you want to increase engagement but those three pieces to a wisdom are what make a real a choose your guide funnel type of content piece whereas if you're just going vomit on social media and ai vomit particularly just vomit oh no it's not going to achieve the the right end goal

I love that. Maybe you've seen this before, where if a sale come through... the wrong gateway you couldn't get misled right so like all of a sudden you're just gun-ho on the fact somebody purchased and then the cpms over time it's just like elevating and you're like waiting for the next sale and it just doesn't come and you're like holy crap like what what am i waiting on you know do you see misled you know numbers like that depending on what's happening with content

yeah absolutely and i think that's why retargeting is really important to choose the right metrics for your retargeting criteria so i like to retarget on the percentage of the video that's been viewed and facebook makes it really jolly hard to do that i will say because it keeps doing for example if you run a campaign for through plays which is 15 seconds

then you'll find that all of the people who watch your video are 15 seconds long video watchers. And you think that's stupid because some of them will have watched 75%. Some of them will have watched 95%. This is mad. So Facebook does make it difficult. But without getting too geeky, I like to use the 50% and 75% because then I know they've got past the first six second hook. They've got into the wisdom. So I know that they are my people.

So then when I retarget them, don't ever retarget, unless it's just a brand awareness campaign, the three second views because they haven't polarized themselves. So you want people that are around the 50% and above mark. And that's the best way to kind of get rid of the chuff. I love that. So... If you can summarize all three pillars. So for those that are just maybe watching halfway through this podcast, like help us just navigate through as we kind of close out.

Okay, so the Choose Your Guide Funnel method is all about changing your perspective of the most important conversion step of your funnel. It's not the sale.

it's when they choose you as their guide and all of the content that you create should be around helping them choose you as their guide and then showing them what the next step is for them depending on their journey so we create beautiful quizzes inside high level so they can come in say oh this is me by answering the questions and then they get redirected to the next step you've then got the most perfect funnel that literally runs on automation i mean it's just set it and forget it

you don't even need to i've got stuff as i said at the beginning of the call i've got content i created 10 years ago you go oh my god jody you could produce that better yes i could but do you know what i don't care In fact, I find it hilarious because I'll show my clients and go, look at my really shit videos from 10 years ago. And they laugh because it stops them worrying about the perfectionist thing. Because if we get too hung up on hyperproduction, we don't do anything, do we?

If you are creating that lovely content and you set it up there and it says everything that needs to do, you genuinely have to do the build once and it runs. And whenever you want a new source of income, you just choose a new gateway, a new stage of the journey. and build it out again for that content so you are really building a business that can scale and you're building a business that isn't going to fill your calendar with loads of calls for people that aren't actually going to buy

You know, all my prices are on my website, all my concept videos, all of my content is out there. So everybody has done all of the important conversion bits before they even get on a call with me. So there's no conversation really to be had.

I love that. If I had to put into three words everything I've learned from you today, I would say less is more. 100%. Less is more. And a lot of us think of it from a sales standpoint, but as a marketer, you have to put on the hat of education. So, you know, help us understand how to build that guide, you know, and speak to those that are just brand new starting yet. They don't have a ton of content. They don't know what their offers are yet. They don't know if they should pick it.

industry yet like speak to those brand new entrepreneurs if you don't mind to close us out yeah so when you're brand new it can be daunting because everyone who starts out seems to be kind of regurgitating other people's content And if you're doing that, you are essentially just the same as everybody out there. So what you've got to do is step into your authenticity because that's the uniqueness about you. Right.

I've heard a great saying years ago, which was, if you are authentically you, you have no competition. And it's absolutely true. Because even if you put me in a room with 90 other marketing agencies, none of them are like me. And I'm not like any of them. So starting out as an entrepreneur, try and find a way that sets you apart. And it may be your personality. It may be your enthusiasm like it is for me. For me, it's Jodi Energy. That's like my USP. But you will have your own USP.

When you find that and you dig into that, that's what people are going to choose you as their guide for. A bit like you telling us about chasing you and how different you are and who you appeal to. When you step into that and really own it and go, this is me.

Have you seen people on videos where they're obviously performing and it's exhausting to watch? And then when you meet them in real life, they're nothing like they really are. I mean, you've met me in real life. I'm exactly the same on here. as I was in London chatting with you at the Suspirinor event. Right. We're not putting on a performance. Yeah, it's much easier to sustain you being you versus you being someone you learn to be. Yeah.

exhausting as well right it doesn't move anything in business either you know it's just extra well i think people know they they can tell they can tell but yeah that's the key thing when you're starting out you can feel like you are like everybody else and i promise you you're not because everybody is unique you just got to find your thing that sets you apart it might be that you do something slightly differently to other like me with like no lead magnets please

You need to find the thing that's slightly different to other people and really dig into that and share that and talk about that. And then build content around what people ask you for. Because reactionary content is so much better and more satisfying to create than proactive content. Because you actually know people want it. I love that. So Jodi, close us out. Final thoughts for this podcast in general. You know, a couple of big takeaways for me is less is more. Stand for something that...

you yourself can sustain and then also you you're not you know in a rush you're not in a hurry to figure everything out tomorrow like you know there's all building a business takes time you know building a team takes time building a certain voice in the market takes time exactly exactly and being

True to you and what you believe in and your core values means that when you stand up and talk or you're having a conversation with somebody or you're writing an email or you're writing a sales page, it will all be really.

authentic it's not going to be oh god who am i being today when i write this email or who am i being today when i stand on stage it will your brand persona will be through everything because you're being authentically you're not putting a performance on i think it must be an exhausting way to do it but high level enables me to build all of this out and set it and forget it awesome awesome I love it. So with that in mind, we're going to go ahead and stop here.

please comment, reach out to Jody. A lot of cool things happening. We have events coming up. We have conferences, we have masterminds, we have virtual events. Jody, can you share your experience at one of our live in-person events? I forgot to even ask you about that. Yeah, our event was amazing. Just three days of fabulousness in London last month. And just getting so many fabulous people together in the room.

My takeaway was, and lots of people said the same thing, which was gorgeous to see, was everyone in high level is just decent. good fun, decent people. There weren't jerks in there. There weren't narcissists and, you know, egomaniacs. Just a room full of gorgeous people all helping each other, all getting excited, all getting geeked out. I got very excited at Chase's.

statements about what's coming for high level later this year because like yes i was like the biggest weeper in the room um but yeah genuinely high level community incredible to have all those people together in one place and just really decent people Yeah. And I was telling Chase the other day, I feel like we're starting to rebuild the culture of digital marketing. And that is a very responsible thing to do. And it will take some time. But either way.

Join us in live events in person. We have some big conferences coming up in Dallas. So either way, Jodi, thanks for saying yes. Bye for now. Thank you so much.