Welcome to The Heart of Dating Podcast. Hey, it's Kait. I'm so glad you could join us this week as we try to entangle the ever-so ambiguous world of dating as a Christian. Over here on Heart of Dating, we get real as we answer some tough questions and uncover transformative ways to approach Christian dating. Oh, and you better believe we have some laughs along the way, because last time I checked, the struggle is hashtag real. You know what I'm saying? Now let's get to the heart of the matter.
Hey, hey everyone! Welcome back to another episode of The Heart of Dating Podcast. I'm your host, Kate Warman. Hey guys, so this week we're actually going into a very sensitive topic. And I actually waited to release this episode and record it with JJ because I really wanted to pray about it, process it, and be as thoughtful as possible before we told our story in this specific topic and shared it with you guys. And so today we're talking about dating with
depression. And within this, I reveal how I actually went into depression in the early stages of JJ and I's relationship. So soon after JJ moved to LA, I actually began to go through a season that was very unexplainable to me at the time. I started feeling completely burned out and that led to feelings of depression, which continued for multiple months. And this
was a really rough time in our relationship. And I just want you to know today if you're listening, if you've been through depression in dating or if you are going through depression right now, that you are not alone. And I really hope that this episode brings some sort of comfort to you, some hope, and removes any shame you might feel like you have because you have gone through or are going through this. Even the most quote unquote put together
person can and often does go through depression. So many people do. And so I just wanted to start off by saying that I'm so grateful for my man, JJ, for how he showed up in that time in our relationship, how he did not and mesh himself with me through what I was going through. And today we talk about how hard that was for us. We also talked about how we got through it together. I talked about what helped me. And we also answer questions
like should you date with depression? How do you know that you should? How do you bring that up to your partner if you find yourself in depression? And so this is a really sensitive topic, but I really hope that you feel encouraged. With that being said, it is still mental health awareness month in the month of May. And I just want to direct you to one of my favorite resources. We've worked with them for years now, but we love our friends at Faithful
Counseling. Okay, they offer incredible Christian counseling. And I'm just all about it, especially in this month, because we need help a lot of times. Most people need therapy of some kind, even if you grew up with a relatively quote unquote healthy childhood. So many of us need somebody to process things with. And so I want to encourage you to check out Faithful Counseling. You can go to FaithfulCouncing.com forward slash heart of dating. You can get
10% off your first month. Faithful Counseling is completely virtual therapy. And you do it in the comfort of your home. You can fill out a form and you'll get contacted very quickly by somebody from their team. You'll be set up with a therapist and you can start working with them either via phone, via video, via text, there's so many different ways you can actually speak with your therapist. And it's affordable. It's more affordable than most
therapy services. And I love it. It's been such a great resource for people in our community. I know there's like hundreds of you guys that actually use Faithful Counseling. So if you've never tried therapy before, if you, I have been interested, but you found it to be too expensive, if you want a very specific Christian therapist, then go check out Faithful Counseling. Just give it a try. You can go to FaithfulCouncing.com slash heart
of dating. Okay, guys, let's get into this really sensitive, but I think beautiful topic for today, dating with depression. Hey, my honey. Hello. We're back today. And I feel more like subdued because we're talking about a really sensitive topic. Yeah, you really set the tone. Oh, yes, I did. Really nicely. Welcome to heart of dating podcast. Today, I'm your host, Kate Warman and I'm JJ Tom. Okay, maybe we won't maybe won't
do that. Okay, that's fine. But you guys today, we're talking about dating with depression. And I revealed this briefly at the beginning of announcing that JJ and I were together. And you guys have asked me so many questions and I just really wanted to be thoughtful with the episode and do it at the right time. And we felt like now is the right time. And I want to lead in preface by saying we don't have all the answers to this. It is a very
nuanced conversation. It is a very difficult conversation, a very difficult thing that a lot of people go through. And so it worked for us. The things we're going to share. And the way it worked for me, which I'll get into is that I was, I found myself falling into depression while JJ and I were already dating, which was a unique scenario. And so we did work through that. And we didn't separate, but this is not prescriptive. Nothing
but we really do on the podcast or say on the podcast is prescriptive. But we hope it helps you. Guides you makes you feel more seen and know that you're not alone and know that you don't have anything to be ashamed of. And then something I also want to say starting off is that it is really important to know that even leaders go through depression, even leaders have anxiety, they go through depression. And it's hard for me to talk about this and
admit it and talk about the ins and outs of what happened for us. But I know leading in vulnerability and being honest is the most helpful thing I can do. But I just want to remind you guys that like leaders go through this. I mean, you probably know that, but it's just I need to say it. Like people go anybody can go through depression. Yeah, I just want to say I'm so proud of you for being vulnerable. I think that's what
people respect and love about you most is that you're vulnerable. And I think what's been cool is I think I have noticed from a leadership point of view, Christian leaders from the pulpit and ministry leaders being a little bit more transparent about this. Yeah. It's a little bit less of a pretending that everything is perfect and a prayer fixes everything on the spot. But there's a little bit more willingness to say things are not
okay. But I'm still okay in that. Yeah. And I'm working through it like Deb Fileta last year was on the podcast. And we talked about dating with depression a bit. And she has a great book like I'm not really okay. I think it's what it's called. And and it's okay to not be okay. Like when we are in church and we someone asked you like, how are you? You know, like the typical like knee jerk reaction responses. I'm good. How are you? It's
like that is like conversation fail 101. But it's what we all do. Not really being honest just generically saying I'm good. How are you? Like there's no texture honesty to that. Yeah. And but some of the people I respect the most can say I'm not okay. Things are really hard. Christ is sufficient. And his grace is sufficient for me. Even if I don't feel that. Yeah. You know, even that honey kind of bothers me because we have to cloak
it with the Christian goodness. Like we have to we feel this sense of like I have to tie it with the perfect Christian bow of like, but God is good. And I know he's sufficient for me. When actually in the moment, most people don't feel that they're wrestling through it. Like some of them can be like, I know it, but I don't feel that. And so I'm wrestling. Yeah. And I think that's what faith is. Faith is I don't feel it in the least bit right
now. In fact, it's the hardest it's ever been. And I'm sorting through it and period. I mean, well, I like to supplement that I have faith that God is good, even though I don't feel I know see I love you for that. And I've called that out for years. And I love that about you. But I also feel like we don't have to have the positivity cloak every sense of it. Sentence like we can also just allow space for being like, I'm wrestling through
some things. And it's a hard time period. Okay. Wow. I don't see eye to eye on that. Which is great because I would love to I hope that speaks to people in the audience that we can both have that statement of belief. And that's where we are. And I'm not going to hold that against Kate. We're not going to end this podcast. I'm going to be like,
okay, we need to talk. It's just being okay with where it is. But I think what was really cool is in the depression cycle, one thing that we really had to learn is being okay with it not being okay. Yeah. And what's really hard about that was you can't really identify it until you're maybe like in the middle of it or it's been around for a bit. I think it took us a good chunk of time to identify. Oh, it's actually maybe depression, but maybe
you could speak a little bit more about. Yeah. Well, let's talk about, well, before you get in, will you pay for everyone? Yeah. Jesus, thank you so much that you are always with us. You have always been since the very beginning. And everything that has happened you have willed. And so Lord, we just submit to you. We submit this podcast to you. Let it glorify you. Thank you that you're faithful, even when we are not and that your spirit
accompanies us and the quiet and then the loud. So Holy Spirit, we just asked, would you speak through us? Would you give us the wisdom and humility to speak out over this challenging and hard topic and let it encourage and love others? And Jesus, amen. So we want to start by talking about what is depression. And this was something I had
to look into last year because I'm not going to lie. My view of depression in the past because up until last year, I would never have identified that I had gone through depression. Now I may have, but I never identified it previously up until last year. And that's just my journey. I've definitely identified with anxiety before and I struggle with that chronically. But depression, I would have never said until last year that I had gone
through it. And I may have, but in my mind, depression, I used to think that depression was just like chronic depression, meaning like I'm curled up in my bed, not able to move. And like that's it. Like I'm just like succumbed to my life in my bed. I don't want to see people. I don't want to talk to anyone. I don't move. And I actually have been around people that have had chronic depression like that. But it's not always that that can be
really chronic and severe depression. But there actually can be other layers of depression, which was really fascinating for me to start to realize. And often depression can come when life is seemingly really good. But there's a lot of pressure or a lot of stress stress. And we might be doing too much and not setting good boundaries. Hello, a lot of my life. And this the the extra stress can actually create different hormonal imbalances or different
imbalances, chemical imbalances in your body. And this can also lead to depression. Like periods of stress, stress, stress with lots of cortisol, like your body trying to like release things to get you more energized can actually lead to depression. It can actually hijack your good feelings. So the actual definition of depression, if you think about it, is to push something down when you are depressing something, you're pushing something down.
So when you are depressed, it's like it's pushing the good feelings down. You feel more down. You feel like like you're everything about you feels more depressed, you know, like if you're thinking of the definition of pushing down. So this was really interesting to me. If you have three of the following symptoms for two weeks or more, you could be depressed.
So here are the symptoms, a depressed mood, apathy, not excited about things, irritability or agitation, decrease interest in pleasure or pleasurable things, changes in weight, sleep disturbance, sleeping too much, fatigue, feelings of hopelessness. So if you have three of those following things for two weeks or more, you could actually be in a state
of depression. And it could be like a load grade state of depression. Since last year, I'll be honest, like I have found myself going in and out of that a lot, especially when I've been really, really, really busy. And even right now, it's hard, like we're balancing so much between working full-time jobs, both of us. And then we work on hard-addating stuff after work hours are on the weekend. And then we work on wedding stuff. And it's
like we were just talking about this. Like we literally have not had break time, like or like bus time in a while. And that's just the season right now that we're in. We know it's going to end. There's a lot at the end of the tunnel. But it's hard. It's been hard. Yeah. It's a lot of overload. I have a question for you though. Yeah. Would you say it's accurate to describe depression as a chemical imbalance in your body versus a spiritual state? Like it's more of a...
I would say the chemical imbalance leads you to the state. Yeah. But it's actually like a physiological chemical imbalance in your body. Yeah. That's why you feel so out of sorts. Like you don't feel like yourself. Like when you know your normal self or when you're feeling good and then you feel more depressed, you're like, this is different. Like I don't want to do the things I usually wanted to do. Especially for somebody like me that's
more joyous, excited. Like people person wants to be around people. When I... When those things started shutting down, like I was not as joyous, I was not as positive as way more irritable. I did not want to see people. And I'm extroverted. That was like something's going on. Well, I think that was... That was a big learning for me. And we can talk about this a little bit later, but an understanding depression. But one of the first things that I learned
about it was it really is and starts as a chemical imbalance. Like it is a physiological issue in your body. Yeah. As well as spiritual and mental. But it starts as like it does the chemical concoction in your brain. Yeah. Like it's not... It's not in order. Yeah. Exactly. And why like I'm for, I did not take medicine for my depression last year, but I am about it for certain people. Yeah. I really am. I'm super about medicine and getting the right help that you need, whether
it be for anxiety or depression. Like absolutely. I have so many dear friends who've got in depression medication. And it's like, it has been a game changer. So if that is you, I just want to release any stigma that just God can save you. And you don't need any medical, any attention at all. Like I just... I get really frustrated when people just Christians specifically really put down the use of any sort of medical treatment to help
them along in the journey. Now how did you know you were depressed, especially like when you were here to you aware that this could be depression? Well, last year in 2021, a lot was going on. The year started out with me preparing for my second ever conference for Heart of Dating, the Single Out Conference. And preparing for my first book to launch. Two very big things I was doing a million things. And it was a lot to launch all at once. And
I was doing like tons. I mean, upwards of 15 to 20 interviews a week for the book. So we're just constantly on, constantly on preparing for the conference, talking to all the guests, preparing, like doing my books, the book study for the people who we were launching the book together. Like it was a lot. I mean, I was doing so much for those like two months up until like March and even in the beginning of March. And then I started my feeling myself
after that crash. So it started with going into burnout. I started getting really burnt out. Like just like foggy. My body felt not the same, not as energized. I wasn't in the adrenaline high of like, let's get everything done. This feels so good. My book is launching. Like I was in an adrenaline high, like constantly on overdrive for multiple months. And then it all crashed. And so that crash started really hitting me in April. And then in May is when I really started recognizing
something is off. Where I actually know it was where I knew and started to see that it was off was when I went to my dear, dear friends, bachelor party weekend. And normally things like that. I'm like, so pumped about let's hang out with the girls have fun celebrating my bestie. I found myself not excited internally about the trip. And then there when I was there, I found myself like annoyed and annoyed that I was there and annoyed that I had to be around people. I found myself
wanting to be to myself. It was so sad because I was like, this is one of my best friends. And like I'm finding myself not even wanting to be here, which is so counterintuitive to how I am. I like could not wait to leave that weekend. I just remember it's so clearly. I was like, this is really weird. Like I just can't wait to leave. And that was a big indicator for me. Something is going on here. And then JJ moved to LA and the other indicators for me were
I started becoming really irritable. Like so irritable about super small things all the time. Like excessively irritable. And I was like, everything is bothering me. And it's like overwhelmingly bothering me. I'm so agitated. And so I found myself not liking the same things that I wanted that I used to like not finding as much joy in things. Apathy, right? Not excited. I decrease interest in pleasures that I liked. And then a lot of irritability and agitation.
Yeah, to let you guys in, that might be a funny story. There was a point where we were dating and the irritability. It was in Geon. Yeah, it was it was pretty tough. To the point where, you know, this is funny. It's really, you know, ironic. I would be coming over and be like, hey, I'm going to be there at 630 and I get there at 626 and Kate knows 630 is coming. And without telling each other, we learn this after the fact, I would literally sit in my pray and be like,
sit in my pray. I would sit in my car before I walked in and be like, Jesus, like, I need you. Holy Spirit, I need you. I need to be walking in grace. I need to be close and love. I need to be I need your patience. I need your love. I need your empathy. I cannot walk in there and survive if I do not have you. And little did I know Kate was sitting inside, I'd bring the exact same thing right before I walked in. That was like, please help me to not be
so irritable. Please help me be more patient. Please help me to see the best instead of looking at the worst. Like, oh my gosh. And we would walk in and still fail. Like, it was still really hard. We would make it sometimes five minutes, sometimes a couple hours. It just depended on the situation before it was, you know, there was some kind of conflict or snap or anything. So I just wanted to use that to segue how you should talk about this actually. How did we bring it up?
How did we bring up the depression? Yeah. How did we talk through it? Let's talk about that. Yeah, it's so good. I think it took a while for us to like finally identify. I think you had a gut feeling and a core feeling that you're feeling burnt out, that you were irritable. And then it took about a month, I'd say, of the hard stuff to finally stop and pause and for you to say, I think I am depressed. Yeah. Yeah. It did. And I actually reading Deb's book really helped. Are
you really okay? And like researching and like really processing. I really recommend that book. By the way, I love Deb. Shout out. You know, and so I ended up, I don't remember at the exact moment I shared it with you. I think it was like through period of time. Like I really, I actually think do you remember? Yeah, I can't remember the moment, but I do remember it was presented with like some uncertainty. It was like, hey, I think I am depressed. Like,
I, there's a lot of symptoms and there's a lot of indicators. And sometimes, Kate does have a small player, a little taste, for the dramatic. I'm sorry. What was that? Just just sometimes. You want to see your mother. Yeah. No, no, no, just, you know, that's very rare. I just have a lot of emotions and feelings. And she's very in tune with them. Very, very in tune
with her emotions. That's why I'm a great expressive leader, baby. I told Kate early on, you're very gifted in overcommunicating your feelings, which comes from my core wounding of being misunderstood. So, but she sat, I'm pretty sure it was in the kitchen. And she was just like very hesitant, but just I think I have depression. Like, it was just a kind of a matter of fact. Like, signs point to this and I've, it does match up. And, and that was very, very hard for both
of us to kind of swallow. But I think what came up for me was that the original question was I didn't know what to do. Like, specifically, I knew that I had to love her as best as I could. I knew that it wasn't about me. And I knew I had to dig for new levels of empathy to be there for you. And that was my mission. Like, I was on mission to support you. Yeah. And we were about four and a half, five months into dating, something like that at this point, just to give you guys
like a timeline roughly of when this came up. And so, you know, and we had to talk about, like, if we were going to continue to date or not. And that did come up. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, we had a question because like, I wanted, I made these points to also go over, how do you know if you're fine enough to date with depression? And I'm going to read some of the notes that I shared, or that I want to share, because I think it's important. A lot of people, because you may have
depression, some levels of depression now. And you're like, are, am I in an okay place to date? Or it may come up in your relationship like it did for me. So here's some things of how to recognize you are maybe fine enough to date, but don't just take it from me. Go to your mentors, your therapist, people around you. Okay. And then we'll tell you how Jay, Jay and I like chat it through that too. But first of all, you do need to be able to recognize your
impression. And you need to also recognize that you need help. Ideally, go to therapy. And within that, like, support of all kinds, like therapy, and maybe a few close people, you need some safe people to be able to work through what you're going through. And if you are going to date, like, you really don't want to use that as looking to that person to be the person that's going to help you solely through this process, that is an unhealthy way of dealing with
any sort of mental health issue, I think. So ask yourself, do you, do you really, can you admit that you are depressed? Do you have safe places in your life to move through the depression outside of dating? Like, what are those safe spaces? Are you moving through the depression on your own, regardless of the other person helping you? And are you being intentional with the process?
Because part of this is you have to somehow find, like, find a level of strength to take your power back to start the process on your own, because I get it, like, being depressed can really make you not want to do anything in ways. Like, you're like, I don't even want to start the process. Like, I feel like it's not going to go anywhere. And those thoughts are really real, but,
you know, that's why it's really important to have a support system. People encouraging you, you can do this, like, but you ultimately have to be the one to make the decision. And you have to keep committing to that. Like, okay, I need to try to try to do what I can, even if it's just small steps each day. So those are some litmus things to check in with yourself on to know if you're in a good place to date while you're maybe dealing through some depression.
But you and I had a conversation because of multiple of you because it was hard. Do you want to tell them about the Taco Bell? This is one of the funniest stories in Kate and I's dating life. Oh my gosh. Do you want to tell them? Yeah, we can tell them. So, and this for me, stemmed in high school football and athletics after especially away games. If we loss, right, especially in the US, losing is not okay. And I didn't have the best relationship with failure
in losing. So if we'd loss, especially on away games on the way back, I loved hitting out like McDonald's or Taco Bell and just, you know, picking out a little bit and just like, you know, what is it? Co-oping what's the food? Any terms like it's my it was my coping mechanism with pain. Like a little comfort food. And especially Taco Bell, man, I love it. That still do. And the way you know that is because Kate and those first few months,
she had a Taco Bell about half a mile away from her house on the way to my house. And so for about a month and a half, probably like three or four times a week, we would have a rough night and on my way home. I'd just be driving and that Taco Bell would just call out to me and be like, come here. I'll take care of you. And I've pulling that drive through and I'd get my two or three things and I go home and I warm up just a little bit more and I just eat my Taco Bell and be like,
that was a really hard night, but you did good. You did good. You did your best. And I didn't tell Kate and no, you didn't. I told her like a month and half, two months later. Yeah, because I, there was some point in time where I was like, oh, I really hate Taco Bell. I hate fast food. I hope you know, every time we pass them, I'm like, oh, Taco Bell. And I was like, please tell me you don't actually eat that. It was something like that. I was like, please tell me
you like don't actually talk about it. And you were like, uh, yeah, I don't know why I ever messed up. I should take that to the grave. But anyway, I looked at Kate. I was like, I have something to confess. I was like, it's like one of my first big confessions to. And she's like, what? Like something you've been drinking every night, you know? I'm like, no, worse. I've been going to Taco Bell after every big fight. Oh my god. I was like, I go emotional
crutch. That's how bad things are. I was like, what? And this is when we were getting better. I was in a better place. But she was more upset that I went to Taco Bell than I was like, dealing with emotional pain from like the. I was also made me know. I was sad. I was really sad to get that. And I was also like, why Taco Bell? She's like, why? That was so funny. And I still like Taco Bell. You'll never take that away from me. But I don't go as frequently.
Sadly, I kind of wish I did. But anyway, so that is, that is a good segue for what to do. If your partner is struggling with depression, and another good question is, how do you know that you should still date them if they are clearly going through depression? Because that is a big question. And Kate and I really wrestled with that question. So I can speak to the other side. And I would say this, first of all, listen to your counsel and then listen to Holy Spirit.
And you have to get that affirmation and great line from them because if you try to do it with either of those resources, you will fail. And for me, for my experience, at that five month mark, I really saw a lot in Kate that she would be my future wife. And I felt when people, and we'll talk about this, how do you know? Yeah. For me, one of the tell tale signs was when things were absolutely not okay. And they were painful and they were hard. And I was stuff in Taco Bell.
I still had peace. Yeah. I still had peace. And that's when I knew when things made the least sense on paper and things were so hard. And I still had peace. That's when I knew I had a confirmation of Holy Spirit that this is the one I could pursue and choose towards marriage. Yeah. And that's how I knew. And from there, but even then, there's still, I would say, if you find yourself in that position and you are willing to commit to supporting them,
you are supporting them. You are not saving them. Yes. You have to depart from the responsibility of saving them. So important. That's important. If you know yourself, if you know, some of your co-dependent tendencies, if you typically like to play the hero role, you have to be very aware because this is very different. But I'm going to bring up an addict situation. People get, you know, often addicts end up with a co-dependent person. And that person feels like it's their
duty and job to change that person and get them into health. And they put their entire identity into getting them into health and getting them into change. And then it might happen for short periods of time. And then when they go back to the bottle, that person feels so both angry, but also their identity feels crushed because they put all of their identity into helping save
that person. So if your identity cannot be ammeshed in their ability to move through their depression on their own or in your ability to support them, to get them to change, like, they are going to be the only person that can decide that. So you have to be really aware of just your own tendencies. And if you often like to play the hero, this is going to be, it's tough for you. It's not impossible, but you really have to pay attention to that.
Yeah. It's a savior complex territory. And it's just not good for either of you. And that's not your job. It's not your job. I've 10 tips. What to do if your partner is depressed and you are choosing to support them. Yeah. So number one is remember that they are a person, like they are not defined by depression. Yeah. And what's also helpful there is as a sub bullet is they are a person and they didn't choose this. It is just a chemical imbalance. You know, nobody, nobody
actively really chooses depression, especially in the onset. Yeah. No. You know, and that's super important because I would get frustrated at first. Like why are you so, you know, irritable, you know. So, but that really helped clarify it. They didn't, nobody chooses depression. Why would you want to choose that? Yeah. Number two, educate yourself. YouTube was my best friend. It really was.
YouTube was my best friend. Like don't just find one therapist find just I love the illustrated videos where it's a voiceover and they're just speaking and they kind of scribble out thoughts or they'll scribble out like the dark cloud that kind of follows the person. Yeah. You know, it's just really helpful pictures of depression. Yeah. Number three, we talked about this one, depart from the responsibility of saving them.
So important. Choose to support them. Yeah. And then support them as they want to be supported. This is a good quote. It took me a second. Sometimes these things go over my head. But water seeks its own level. So if you have like a cup of water, there's not two levels of water. Like water settles on the same level. And so support them how they want to be supported. Water seeks its own level. So they have to feel happy on their level. Like your level of happiness
is not going to bring them up on that level water. Like it's going to go down. Oh, that's good. You know, so you're going to meet them on that level versus this interchange. That's really important. I haven't spoken to this yet. But I previously to you, babe, the irony is that I recently in previous years dated somebody where this was completely flipped, where the guy I was seeing he was going through depression. And it didn't start that way. It started while we
were dating. And it was a really big challenge for me as the joyous, excited bubble, blah, to not like I would feel I would often put on him like, why are you? Why can't you get as excited as me? Like, this is so awesome. This is so great. This is so fun. Like why are you just meh, monotone, blah. And I would kind of make him feel bad about it. And don't do that. And I'm just bringing that up. Yeah, I was not a good example because I was not I couldn't I was
it was codependent. I had to like have him feel the same thing I was feeling or else I wouldn't be happy. My happiness was dictated on his mood. So I needed to really be like, okay, I can be happy. I'm really enjoying this. And that just because he's not showing me the same level of excitement doesn't mean that he's not enjoying it. Okay. And I can still enjoy it even if he's in the mood that he is in. Yeah. So let them be happy on their own level. Yeah. And then let them want to change
it. You know, if you're up there and that's a good tip. Well, I think that's one of my last ones. Number four, thoughtful, no strings attached gestures. And so I was watching a YouTube video in this one. And it was super cool because she was talking about coming out of depression and what was most helpful looking backwards. And she said her sister would come over and just bring her her favorite candy and just sit there and maybe watch a movie. You know, super small and simple.
And it just meant the world to her that she was just being thought of. And she didn't have to give any crazy reaction or super open the moon. It was just a thoughtful gesture. Yeah. gesture. Oh my god. You like saying gesture. I know. It's gesture. It's like gif or gif. I know. What is it? Well, technically it's gif. I like saying gif. Yeah, I need to. But so you can say gesture if you want. Yes, sure. Well, do some people say that? No. Okay.
gesture. Well, there's your phonics lesson of the day. It's gesture, not gesture. And you have if you just learned that today, then you and I have a long way to go. The next one is be a great listener and just a listener and pro tip if you don't just listen and you try and give solutions or you try and go back up. Yeah. But if you try, you're just going to make it harder and worse. You're just going to put out more roadblocks. Yeah. It's just easier to be a good listener on you too.
But it's better for them. Just be a great listener. Be stable and consistent. That's one of the best things you can do is just stable and consistent. This is to your point, stay positive regardless of how they or sometimes you feel, you know, I don't want you to like pretend, but you have to find a way to stay positive. Like it's not about you in this moment. Sometimes staying positive. That should be another one. It's not necessarily about you. I think we like to personalize it a
lot. That should be like another tip. It's not like don't take their mood as it's about you. Oh, yeah. I thought you meant like the whole process, like supporting them is not about you. But it's like it's not about you. Like they're moved towards you. They're strife towards you. They're sharp comments towards you. It's not about you. It's not a personal attack on you. And that's super important. You kind of have to have a little bit of a shield up
or just kind of like a screen, you know, to be able to screen that. Number eight, be a great friend. Not always a romantic partner. That was super important. I mean, the romantic, like you have a really big romantic desire. So it was important to support you romantically through a sweet note. But sometimes they just need a great friend, not just a romantic partner. And then the last one is my favorite one. Lead the relationship by example, by gratitude, by joy, by balance,
proactive habits. Like if they're stuck in that right, it's really helpful for them to have an example of somebody who wakes up early and goes workout. Somebody who goes through a gratitude journal. Somebody who has accountability. Somebody who has counsel. Somebody who goes and does activity for their inner child or their inner team. Yeah. Like you can lead by example and inspire them to maybe follow up long. Yeah. But don't go obviously don't go trip them or
anything into that. Right. Just do your thing. Like you can still live your life. And those are my 10 tips. I love it. I need very, very, very good. They were very good. I love them. Were there any that really stuck out for your experience? That you during our time. Yeah. I mean, you were very consistent. You were very patient with me. And you didn't mesh yourself in the experience, which is really good and helpful. And
you know, you did lead by example. Sometimes it was frustrating. I'll be honest because I could just sense that JJ was like joyful and like happy and positive. And I was like, why can you be that way? And why can't I not be that way? And there were moments that were like so frustrating to me because I'm like, I want to be that way. I want to be in the same mood you are. And I'm like not being able to get there right now. It was really hard because I also know myself and I know
that typically I can. And so that was really hard. It's a great point. I would say, my gosh, I'm going to laugh. Some of the best things I did do though, we're going to go into like, what did you, what did we do as well? Like what did I do individually? What did you do individually? But like I was able to go to Disney when it reopened with my bestie. And that was like really wonderful. I actually had a really great day of joy. And then you and I went,
and it was, it was mostly joyful until later. Dude, our first like 10 Disney dates, I'd say like seven of them were terrible. They weren't not that many. Maybe like four. Like our first date, like our first like six or seven, like five or six, the majority of our first Disney dates together were terrible. Oh my gosh. Like we were fighting. We just like did not gel. I wasn't happy to be there either. I just really did not like Disney. And I had a hard time getting over that hump.
Now we go for way less time. Yeah. You like it way better. Well, now it's, it's very easy. But it, we did not gel at Disney initially. Yeah, we can tell them that story another time. So funny. So we did process whether or not we should be dating. I also did. I had like freak out moments of like maybe we shouldn't be doing this because I also felt a lot of shame. Like the problem with the hard part about this is like you when you're when you're depressed and not in a relationship,
maybe you feel shame about not showing up for people. Well, like your friends, but when you're in a relationship and at least for me when you're you feel like, especially you're not showing up well for your partner, it is really hard. Like for me, I struggled a lot with shame and feeling like I am not treating this person well. I'm not showing up that well. I'm not able to be joyous. Like I feel like I'm really letting him down. And that was also a really rough battle I had to face
on the side. And just really like, should I just is this too hard for our relationship? Should I be working through this on my own because it's not fair to keep bringing him into and bringing him down with my irritability with my like, depressed attitude and like bummed out attitude all the time. And but ultimately we decided to move forward. And I want to share next like some things that really helped through the thick of it for both of us. I think one of the
biggest thing here is to find outlets outside of each other. That's really, really important. And really important. And you know, you mentioned gratitude. I didn't even put this on my notes. But I remember during that month, I got my five minute journal, which I love the five minute journal. You guys, it's so easy. It's great. I was just like, let me just start, start if I can practicing very simple levels of gratitude. I have breath in my lungs. It's sunny today.
Like really basic things, non descriptive. And it just helps you getting into that habit. And it's very easy to do not a big commitment. Five minutes or less, right? Every day. And I love that picture. If you think about that, like chemical imbalance and just being stuck in a right, like you got to have a small habit change and the deep rut of it, you just got to start making these little changes. And they're not going to change the whole thing over time. But you're just
building little by little out of it out of that rut. And that that by far and away gratitude is like the aim to do. Yeah. Another thing that was so important. And was I recognized I need structure. So and I needed more spiritual connection. And so I reached out to one of my best friends Kristen. I said, could we start doing daily prayer together? And so we did. We would like set our line every morning at 8 a.m. And we would do daily prayer every day. And it was honestly so
helpful. It was so helpful. She was going into getting married. I was going through my season. And just having that every day at 8 a.m. was awesome. And also got me out of myself. Because I also prayed over her, which I think is really helpful in this time. It's to like also just kind of get out of yourself a little bit. Yeah. That's a great point. Focusing on her. And what she's going through and praying for her. Like it brought me so much like excitement. And I was like, oh,
I'm actually looking forward to this. And I'm looking forward to not just loading all these things about myself and what I'm going through. But like thinking about somebody else and praying for them was actually really helpful for me. At both sides, I needed and my half is I needed external outlets to, I mean, like vent to process, to talk through walkthrough support me. And so the common theme there is like introduce community. Not the whole world, obviously. But introduce close friends.
You know, socialize it on both sides because you're not supposed to walk through it on your own. Like whether you're single or in a relationship or married, like you're not supposed to just be in a silo as a single or just a couple. That's where you get like feel awful when it's just you guys. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And you're not we're not designed. And I don't know really how you could do it on your own. But we both introduced close community. And that was super, super effective.
Yeah. And there's just no way we could have made it without. And so for both sides, whether you're the depress or supporting. But and then your last bullet point was. Yeah, what is God saying to us about working through this within the relationship, which we touched on. And that's but then the other thing is that you need to be patient because
it could take a lot of time. You just you can't put a time limit limit on these things. I was really lucky and grateful that about the depression, the the major parts of it really lasted for a core of like two months. And then I started feeling a bit better. And it was I still went in waves. I would even say today I'm still going through waves, honestly. But it was like it was about two
months. And honestly, those things I just said really helped me establishing some more basic structure, the gratitude, the daily prayer, the getting outside of just being around J.J. and processing with other people. It really helped me in doing some things that I enjoyed, like trying to force myself to do some things like that I enjoyed. Yeah. Just on my own, even was also really, really helpful. And it within like roughly two months, also getting healthier.
Like I started eating healthier, sleeping more, not sleeping excessively, but just like not limiting myself. I used to I even during the beginning star ice, I limited myself all the time because I'm a productive person. And so I was like need to have only seven to seven half hours, no more than that. So I allowed myself to sleep a little more. For some people in depression, you may this could get too excessive. But for me, my body actually needed some more. So I left
myself to get a little over eight hours. And it was like, yeah, I needed that. Eight to nine is kind of that magic number. Yeah. But in short, I would say the easiest thing is, well, not easiest. The most simple way to put it is drop the timeline. You have to drop the timeline because
it's just there's not a ideal timeline. And two is focus on the inputs, not the outputs. So focus on the input of tweaking your morning routine, incorporating more exercise, more gratefulness, more spiritual community, focus on the inputs of, you know, a little bit more sleep, a better diet, getting out of the house. Like don't don't it's kind of like going to the gym. Like the healthiest way to view the gym is don't look for your six pack after your third workout, you know, at Orange
Theory, it's not going to happen. And you're just going to be sad. Just just stay faithful to the inputs, stay faithful to just frequency of workouts, improving your diet. And the results will come. The light will come. And that's probably the best advice we could give. And it was hard. And there's no one way to do this. I really hope this this time together
encouraged you because it was rough for us. I'm like literally also went through so much imposter syndrome, dude, I was like, oh my gosh, here I am, like teaching people preaching to people. And here I am, like irritable, you're going to talk about three to four times a week. And we're like going through all this stuff behind the scenes that no one publicly knew. And yet I'm still, you know, the dating coach and helping people, I was rough. I was like, do I'm I qualified? And I
was like, I'm just going through season. I had to allow myself to be like, you're going through season or really hard season. This isn't forever Kate. Yeah. And just to even allow myself permission to be like, okay, it's okay to not be okay in this season. It's okay to admit that for myself and work through it. And it doesn't. And my therapist had to be like, who's are your people going to connect to you guys having this perfect dating journey? Because I also struggle. I'm like,
well, my story isn't perfect. I didn't do the perfect way. Like, like if I'm a dating coach, my whole story of dating the man I'm going to marry should be perfect, right? And she was like, who needs another perfect story of how to date? Like, is that what people really need? Yeah. And I was like, oh, they also don't exist. Well, some people make it seem like they do. But she, she just like was like, what is that what people really need? Is that what people expect from you? Even Kate?
I was like, Oh, no, I guess not. Well, I'm the more I've got to know you the more I've been inspired by your vulnerability to admit things to go there. And then after the facts, share it with other people. It's so awesome. And it is very brave of you. You're one of the bravest people I know. And I want to challenge you guys on that same note of bravery. If you have suffered depression and dating or with a partner or even in singleness, what was most helpful for you and retrospect?
If you're watching this on YouTube or Instagram, I would love for you guys to share that and be brave because I would love that to be shared with maybe someone who's going through it or a partner who's trying to support their partner going through it. And I think we can all rally to make sure we talk about this. And then we just arm one another. Oh, I did this and it was the best thing ever. Oh, I did this and it was so helpful. I would have and that's how I've really like
with my dating life and supporting you is just like listening to others. And that's where I've gotten my most effective dating advice tips, supporting advice. And then the last one is just seek peace with the Holy Spirit on both sides because he will be your guide and he will be your energy source. And if you try and use any other source like you're just going to fail. That's so true. You're just going to fail. And that's good because it points you back to God.
And that is just as simple as it gets. So we love you guys. I'm really proud of you for being so vulnerable today. And I love you for dealing with me during that time. Well, God is good. And I would love to hear from you guys. I'm super excited to read comments and feedback to see how this might have impacted you and more importantly, like what has helped you guys. Thanks, baby. Yeah, we love you guys. Love you guys. Bye-bye. See you soon. Bye.
Bye. The Heart of Dating Podcast is created by Kate Warman. It is a part of the Converged Podcast Network. Our incredible editor is the one and only Scott Carro. Our theme music was developed by the amazing Christian Ladou, special shout out to Andrii Maga and Gabriela Asperu, who make the show possible each week and help to keep me sane. If this is your first time listening to the podcast or if you've never written us a review or ranked us on iTunes, we'd encourage you
to do so because it helps us so much to get this podcast into more people's ears. We launch our podcast each and every week on Wednesday. So we'll see you next week.