Welcome to The Heart of Dating Podcast. Hey, it's Kait. I'm so glad you could join us this week as we try to entangle the ever-so ambiguous world of dating as a Christian. Over here on Heart of Dating, we get real as we answer some tough questions and uncover transformative ways to approach Christian dating. Oh, and you better believe we have some laughs along the way because last time I checked, the struggle is hashtag real. You know what I'm saying?
Now let's get to the heart of the matter. Hey, hey you guys. What's hanging? It's your girl, Kait, warm in here and welcome back to another episode of The Heart of Dating Podcast. I want to know what's good, y'all. How are you guys doing? How we feeling? Is anyone feeling the pressure of ring by spring? We are in the heat of spring right now. I really hope you're not feeling that pressure at all. But I hope you guys have been enjoying the podcast.
Hey, if this is your first time here, welcome. I'm so glad you're listening. If you didn't know, this is, we have a podcast that launches every single week and we have a plethora of podcasts that cover the subject of dating specifically and dating as a Christian to be even more specific than that. And so if you have a dating question, chances are we've covered it in the past four years since starting this podcast. Now lately, I have had the honor and privilege of bringing my man.
JJ Tomlant might be on say onto the show and it's been so much fun. Today we have another video podcast for you guys. Hey to my YouTube peeps. What's up? You guys it's been so fun to be able to do this podcast via video because it just brings a new dynamic, especially when JJ is here. You get to see us interacting and it's just really different than just listening to us. You're starting to get to know us a little bit more.
So we do me a favor and go check out the podcast on YouTube. We you like subscribe, watch this specific episode on YouTube instead of just listening to it. It would mean a lot to me and to our entire team. Now, if you missed it last week, we talked about our sexual past specifically and how that impacts how we show up in dating, whether or not we have an extensive sexual history or we have little to know sexual history. And in fact, we may be a virgin.
How does that impact how we're showing up in dating and what happens when somebody we're dating and eventually in a relationship with reveals to us that their sexual past is really different from ours. How do we handle that? How do we navigate it? Like what is right in the scenario? How would Jesus treat the scenario? The reality is actually you guys at JJ and I very different past. So I really want to encourage you to check out last week's episode.
Because it flows perfectly into the topic for this week where we are talking about physical boundaries. Y'all want to know about physical boundaries. It cracks me up so much anytime and put up a poll. What do you guys want to know in dating? Physical boundaries. We want to talk about it. We want to know all the things. Well, guess what you're not going to get from this podcast. You're not going to get a prescriptive set of rules where we tell you do this. Don't do this.
You know, I think that we've all most of us have already been burned hard enough by the purity culture and the legalistic set of rules that we may have received during that time in our lives. So we're not here to do that. However, we are here to help guide you in knowing what your boundaries are. Helping you to set those boundaries with the person you're dating and then also helping you to keep those boundaries.
So JJ and I talk specifically about what we suggest and also what we did in our relationship. But I really want to stress in the beginning that it is so important that you know what your boundaries are specifically. And we're not going to tell you what those are for you. You need to wrestle that out with your community with God. That is a personal thing that you need to figure out for yourself.
Okay, so I am so excited to get into this today. Another steamy topic. If you like this episode, would you do us a favor and share it with a friend, either the YouTube version or the Apple Spotify, wherever you listen version. It would be helpful because we love when more people get to hear the podcast. Okay. All right, guys, that's it for today. Another episode with my man, JJ, Tomlin. Let's go. Hey, hey, everybody. Welcome back to a heart of dating. I'm here with JJ. Hello.
Hey, we're waving at you on YouTube. We want to encourage you if you've been listening for a while. We started our YouTube version of our podcast a few weeks ago. And now you can see us again in our matching sweatshirts because we like matching. Yeah, you're all the matching last week. You'll see Kate and all of our animated reactions, which I love to observe not to be on the other side of. You'll see the dogs interrupting us sometimes. Yeah, you'll see me flexing.
But what? Yeah, you get everyone's. Okay, go ahead. Show them right now. There we go. We're in a big sweater. So you can't see my biceps. Wow. But I do just loves to flush his bicep. I mean, he's like, Hey, look, this isn't it. This is gonna look bigger. I'm like, yeah, totally. Ladies, if that, if your man does anything like that for you, same vice versa with the guys, it's a bid for attention. And so it's not always. Yes. Yes. John got me when he talks about the best for attention.
That when somebody gives a bid for attention, you eight out of 10 times, you should at least pay attention to the bit of attention. Eight out of 10. That's a funny. How do you say that? 10 times? How do you do that? It's like when you come out and you're like, babe, do I look in this outfit? Like, when am I supposed to say no? No. I'm going to say, baby, that's the best outfit I've ever seen you. And when I flex my arms, you say those are the biggest arms I've ever seen. Wow, honey.
Are they really? And then you're like, are they bigger from last week? Baby, they're getting bigger. Wow. My gosh. Wow. He just wants to be the incredible. I'm going to be like, am I going to marry the incredible Hulk? Oh my goodness. I'm going to more for like a Clark Kent. You know, Superman cut. Look. You don't want to turn green. Well, that's you when you get angry. So I don't want to take your thunder. I think I turned red. You turn a lot of colors.
Well, today we are talking about physical boundaries. And last week we talked about sexual past. And I want to be clear with this episode before we really dive into the content. You know, I talked about this now a while. I wrote about it in chapter three of my book about it's called Never Have I Ever, the chapter and I wrote about sexual past and figuring out your sexual ethic, which we're not going to go into in depth in this conversation.
But I think that it's really important to that today we're not going to be prescriptive in terms of like here is exactly what your physical boundaries should be. Make out, don't make out hold hands, don't hold hands. Sleeping the same bed, don't sleep in the same bed. Like be alone in each other's house, never be alone in each other's house. We're not about to list out your physical boundaries and what they exactly should be.
Because I actually don't think that's going to help you at all with figuring out truly what yours are and setting them and keeping them because in order to really know your boundaries, set them and keep them. You truly have to, well, we're going to go into all the steps here, but you really have to know yourself, know your history and also talk to God about like, okay, God, this is my history. This is my past. What is my sexual ethic? What do you say about sex? What is the Bible and scripture?
Say about these things. Why are they important? And and then from that place in processing, praying, knowing yourself, asking God, looking at scripture, then you develop your your boundary, your physical boundaries. And then from a place of truly knowing those things, then you can walk them out. Because if you are just going to listen to ours right now, off the gate, like it's not going to be connected to your heart. It's like when you're doing something without a deep why, does that make sense?
Yeah, it's the why behind the what? Like the why behind the boundary. That's a million times more important than the what and the the check box of the boundary. Yeah. And because of purity culture and so many rules that we've gotten in this way, I just want to really encourage you that this is a really important time for you to think about. Okay, I'm not just going to take a set of rules from Kate and JJ because I want to know exactly how they did it.
Instead, I'm going to figure out my own why that's aligned with the heart of God and scripture. Yeah, because what's more, what's going to hold you accountable? A conviction built off God's word and gift of physical and your sexual nature or a check box list that you got from a YouTube or a podcast. Yeah, like which one's going to ground you? Yeah, which one is going to be more powerful to stick with?
I can yeah, a conviction, you know, or an emotional check box, you know, and Tim Tebow actually said this is like, are you are grounded and rooted in conviction or emotion? Because if it convictions a lot stronger, that's like, you know, when you're going to the gym, like, are you acting out of a guilt and emotion of feeling overweight or you acting out of a conviction to be healthy and to stew your body? Which one's going to be more sustainable in the long term?
Which one are you going to stick with? Yeah. And that's where I have found my sexual ethic and where I've crossed my own boundaries in the recent years or in the past is because I wasn't grounded and connected to that true why. It was like, I was just doing it because I think I should. When we're shooting on ourselves or other people should on us, it's not going to stick. It really is not going to stick or it might stick, but it might stick because of a shaming narrative.
I'm like, I can't do this because otherwise I'll be judged and condemned forever and then I'll get climped and die. But truly like they do know what I'm saying? Uh, yeah, sure. Hey guys, this is a great podcast. I got to, I got to let out the dog. I think you got it here. I'm going to let you give solo on this one. Stop it. You're so hilarious. No, that was good. That was good. But truly like we need to know it for ourselves versus it being a shooting on ourselves or other people shooting on us.
Yeah. Shooting. I wrote about that in chapter three of Thank You for rejecting me. Shooting on you. Okay, so here's what I got to say about physical boundaries off the gate. They should be. Okay. Coming back to center. I get the ghouls sometimes. Okay, so I really believe that boundaries should be rooted in power and not fear.
And you know, a lot of people are saying like, Oh my gosh, I need to abstain from sex before marriage because I just don't want to get to attach to the person or I don't want to be with someone who only wants sex or like all these things. And a lot of times I or I need to do this. So I'm not judged by people. A lot of those reasons are driven from a place of fear versus from a place of power from a place of being empowered, but from a place of true conviction.
Yeah. There is a difference because when you are when your boundaries are rooted in fear, they're often then also rooted in shame. And you're they're not going to often stick or they're going to cause you shame throughout your life. So I want to encourage you like, if you're saying like, well, like, I can't do this because this is like, I'll be so judged or I can't do this because this on the other. That is not a good. Those are not reasons that are going to be sustainable.
You want your physical boundaries to be decided and crafted out of power and empowerment and conviction. Yeah. And only I mean, acting out of fear, you know, like if you're going to go serve in your church, are you serving in your local church out of fear that if you don't like out, it's going to be upset with you. When you go serve, you know, the homeless in a food drive, like, are you are you showing up out of fear?
Yeah. You know, in your life, like whenever you're acting out of fear in your life, it's never healthy. It's never good. It's never what God wants you to act out of. And we know that because perfect love can coexist with fear. And so in the same way in your sexual ethic and your boundaries, like acting out of a place of fear and don't stone, stone, stone, stone is not. That was like club like don't stones. I know. Acting out of that is one, it might work temporarily.
It might even work for a while. It's just I don't think that's where God's heart is. It's not necessarily what I think. Yeah. And more importantly, it's not going to serve you in a sustainable way that that really glorifies God, even if you're abstaining from it. I mean, the Pharisees abstained from sex. Like there's a lot of people who abstain from physical things that doesn't always make it done in the right way. I think it's the heart and what you do it really coming to the heart of God.
And here's like here's some steps that we recommend. I think the first one is knowing yourself. So in tandem with the last episode where we talked about sexual past, like you need to know yourself and your past and you need to ask yourself, like what is my sexual ethic? Like what do I desire and make that decision if your decision is to abstain from sex until marriage, which is beautiful and wonderful.
Like no matter what your sexual past is, whether you've had sex or not, if that is your desire. Like first of all, we encourage you to go through those layers and again, make that decision based on a place of power, empowerment and conviction instead of from a place of someone told you that's how it should be. And you're like, okay, that's fine. Fine. I'll do it that way. Yeah. Like, you know, and so that should be where we're starting. But then the question is, okay, that is my sexual ethic.
This is my decision. I feel good about that. Now the question is, what do you know about yourself that you need to that informs what kind of boundaries you may need to set knowing yourself? Okay. Like knowing my past, this is now for me, knowing that I want to abstain from sex and I feel clear and good and confident about that decision. Like, how do I now walk that out? Well, for me, I know that this is a decision, but I've also not always followed.
Like, there's things that may tempt me or there are situations I may be in that may cloud my judgment personally. And so, and there are things that like I often in my past really have desire to connect sexually with men because that's what I have. I have confused love with sexual intimacy and like cherishing with sexual intimacy. And therefore, I've often engaged in those things so that I could feel a sense of love. So I could feel a sense of being cherished.
And so I need to know, okay, like when I feel like I know that sometimes I'm not always running perfectly. My love buckets are not always perfect. And so because of that, I need to just put guardrails in place so that I'm not falsely then turning to this person late at night to make me feel love and feel connection. When it's really just a place that's coming out of lack that I can be getting for myself elsewhere and specifically from God.
Yeah, through fellowship with I think the body believers. They're doing something for myself, taking myself out on a date from reading the word and understanding how much God loves me. Yeah, and I'll be honest, you know, I always felt like when it came to physical boundaries and expression and sex, it's always a compensation for your lack of your lack of intimacy elsewhere.
And specifically, if you're not fulfilling your intimacy like your bucket with God and fellowship with brothers and sisters, then you're going to turn to the next best thing on earth, which is sex. And I think it's directly correlated. So I definitely noticed in my times of my sexual past, my best times in sexual victory was when I was most connected with God and fellowship with a great community. And my times of great as defeat was when I was alone, I was not in my Bible.
I was not connected with God and not have any kind of spiritual nourishment. And I was just looking because if you're not getting it from this place, you're going to go to the next best thing. Yeah, sex or the whole list, but it's always just a subvocation for your heart and soul. Yeah, it's feeling something. And so for me, I know that that is a big area. I mean, my history is very much like in high school and beyond.
Like I would do sexual things with guys a lot of the time, not sex, but I would do things with guys to feel connected, to feel wanted, to feel cherished, to feel desired, to feel beautiful, especially on a day where I may feel ugly or like not. Like I would have gone to the guy and been like, hmm, like, you know, and so I need to know these things about myself. And as I continue through time to heal, I've healed a lot of these things, but I still need to put boundaries in place.
Look at the boundaries and then also look at the end result. Let me ask you, how did those things leave you? Like it made me feel empty. It made me feel not loved in that it was very temporary for me. Yeah, yeah. And so use that always as a reminder to going into it as like a sober reminder. How did this lead me? How did I feel last time I did this? Yeah. For me. Yeah. And I think that's kind of like the three seconds of courage.
It's like the five minutes, 10 minutes of courage, like to work up the, hmm, like I know I feel this urge, but like I know this is how it left me. And I know when I go to God with this, how much better it is. Yeah. Because the reality is is even when you're dating, when you're a relationship, when you're engaged, when you're married, that temptation, those urges, like they don't go away.
Yeah. They don't disappear, you know, and so it's always, it's going to be baked to him with you because you're a sexual being. And that's a, that's a good part of our being that God created. God created it. It's a good thing that the devil loves the hijack though. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So I think that's the first thing and, and how to set boundaries like you have to know yourself. Yeah. Know yourself and, um, you know, just align with the other person like you want to pursue God and glorify him.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's comes in a later step that word. So right now we're talking about knowing ourselves so that we could probably know what our boundaries are. Right. And so another thing I would, I would suggest is to be honest early on with the other person about what your boundaries are. Yeah. Absolutely. That is within the early stages of dating. Yeah. Not a relationship and I think age you should not be sharing your boundaries when you're engaged. Oh my gosh.
Hopefully should be obviously early and be, you know, I don't know. You tell me you're empowered by that decision. And be, be honest and transparent. Don't try to take it easy on them or be gentle with them or make it to the other person. Can we, yeah, don't make it easy for them to like receive. Just say, hey, this I have a history here and because of that, like I know where I can end up or maybe you don't have a history. Yeah. It could also just be like this is my decision.
Yeah. You don't. But I think you have to be honest early. Yes. And just be like blunt with it. Like, hey, this is my boundary. And so you know, yeah, and this is why. And I think one of the earliest boundaries that I like to set is that I as much as possible don't kiss on our first date. And so, and that's like sometimes a great area for people of like, you know, sometimes guys want to go in for a kiss and Christian guys that can even be the case, right?
And so you don't know everyone is coming to the table with different things. Also, if a guy tries to kiss you on a first date, don't just judge him and write him off of like, Oh my gosh, he must have horrible boundaries. Like if you don't know his story, you don't know him. Just don't do that. Anyway, that's what I'll say there. But anyway, like be honest. If you feel like you're really vibing with somebody and you feel like they might try to kiss me at the end of the state.
You do not have to kiss them as the woman. I will say like I often just first of all, I wear red lipstick on a first day. It's the no kiss lipstick. Yeah, fun fact. That's a universal. I didn't know that it's the like, don't kiss me. This will get all over your face. Right. Red lipstick. Yeah, like really bright. But I was like, I interpreted the opposite. Like, oh, you want to put the red lipstick on my cheek, you know, like the movies. That's really funny. Absolutely not.
So the no kiss red lipstick. And then I'll often say to a guy, I just want you to know like I want to be really honest up front. I just I don't kiss on a first date. And that's something. And that's not because I don't like you or I'm not connecting with you. It's just part of my sexual ethic. Yeah. And that's great. I'm saying it from a place of confidence from empowerment. If somebody gives you that, that's great. I think that's awesome. I think it's wonderful.
And if somebody doesn't do that, it's not like. Like you said, it's not always an indicator that their boundaries are really out of whack. Mm hmm. So I think the reality with boundaries is we're trying to be cool versus being clear. Yeah. We're trying to be like, I'm cool. Like, oh, they're going to kiss me. I wouldn't normally kiss them, but I guess I'll kiss them. I don't want to be not cool. I don't want them to not like me.
We're so worried about the person liking us because we're putting too much value in stock in that. Then we don't even early on stick to our boundaries. Yeah. I would just ask you guys what's more important being cool and having this person like you or sticking to your boundaries and your convictions and your guns, which is more important.
Which is why it's important again with the first part of what we said to form your boundaries and your sexual ethic from a place of confidence, empowerment and conviction. Yeah. And not out of a place of fear. Absolutely. And I think here's a really good test for this. I was thinking about this. If you're a Christian, you've probably had non-Christian friends at some point ask you, oh, you don't have sex before marriage. Like, oh, like you don't, oh, you don't do this. But you don't do this.
And then they ask you why? If you cannot give an adequate answer on why you have these rules in these boundaries, like, I think it's a really good opportunity for you to deep dive like the sexual ethic or sexual being as humans and why it's such a great thing that got created and why we want to preserve it. Yeah. Because if you don't and your answer is just like, because we don't, like, that's not a very enlightening conviction. That's also not going to really because I was told not to.
That's not a very good conviction. And you might even be able to hold that, but it's just, I don't, I think there's just so much, like you're doing a disservice to the gift of sex and what got created. It's so much like what we said, it's so much more than that. It's so much more than I don't. It's so much more than a rule. Yes. It's a whole entire like universe inside of us that got created. That is a good thing. Yeah. And so like, don't be cool. Be clear.
That's, you know, be honest about what your boundary is early. Yeah. That's good. That's a good bit. Don't be cool. Be clear. Yeah. Yeah. This is really important. I say this all the time. You really need to be able to get on the same page with the other person as you're establishing boundaries. Yeah. It's like, I say this like if you're on page two and they're on page three, more than likely, you will end up going to page three.
Yeah. So if my page two, and I don't know what's on page two, right? If my page two is, I don't want to hold hands or, you know, that's silly. But like whatever, like I don't want to, this is my boundary, then you need to ask and invite the other person. Are you willing to come to page two with me? And is that something you can pray about and honor and respect and also find that same conviction and honor that?
Because if they say no, or if they're like, that's fine, but this is really my boundary, then it's, you will end up going to page three. I'm telling you right now it's going to happen. It's true. And that's not because you're a week. It's just because they are not on the same page with you, which means they're not going to create environments that are necessarily going to honor your boundaries. Because they're not, there's two things. One, they're not going to respect your page two stop.
And three, what's most important about setting that physical boundary, if you're going to get into the nitty gritty and say, you know, this is page two, page three is. And those are practicals. Yeah. Which is great to get that practical. You got to get clarity, do not leave the stuff unsaid. Yeah. And and feel your way around it. Again, do you not be cool? Be clear. Because I think we've all flirted around with the, you know, feeling your way around the boundary.
So what is better than that and what is important for you guys to know is when you set the boundary, you're kind of like setting that hard stop. And that is good, like intention on paper. Okay, this is a stop and put. But what do we do? We go right up to the stopping point. We flirt with it. We go up to it. Like it's a whole pass for page one, two, three, four, all leading up to it. So just be really careful that you guys aren't setting the hard stop because you just have to have that hard stop.
But be really clear that these boundaries are set out of a heart, desired to please God to glorify God and everything that you do say. conviction that you truly have. Yeah. And in the conviction that this is why good conviction. Yeah. And saving as much of that sexual experience from marriage is a great thing. Yes. The right person here's this important. The right person will be willing to honor your boundaries and will not pressure you.
Yeah. The right person will be willing to honor your boundaries and not pressure. I've had so many relationships in the last several years where this is my boundary. And the guy was not on the same page and he didn't honor my boundary. Yeah. And he was he would say, okay, all right, that's fine. But like truly in his heart, he wasn't on that page. And therefore push come to shove. He wasn't honoring my boundaries.
And guys and girls and Gernit, I have I have stock in that like I can stop it as well. But you know what I mean? Well, I think, you know, it is up to the male from the gender experience to lead and guide here. And I will just say this. You will only respect somebody's boundary as much as you respect them. And it's a great barometer. If you want to know how much somebody respects you and wants to honor you, look at how they respect and honor your boundaries.
Yeah. Wow. It's such a great barometer that words, fluffy words, the charismatic, the charming, the person who can get by a lot of stuff. But it's kind of sneaking on the back side. Just look at their actions and no matter what word they say or how they address it. Look at how they respect and honor your boundaries and you'll find a great indicator of how they respect and honor you. Yes. That's so good. Thanks. Wow. I've I think the next step here is very obvious.
But once you've established boundaries and you guys are on the same page again, page two, both on page two or if it's page three, both on page three, whatever the page is, you're both on the same page about it. Then you got to keep accountable. And this is where I just have to say this. I saw this years ago where, you know, the accountability looked like this in different friend groups. I've seen an experience of like the accountability looked like confessing it, quote, unquote to somebody else.
Like, man, I did this with my boyfriend last night, I wrote a law and telling that to another friend who was also doing the same thing. And therefore that part, they told them they confessed it and then the person's like, Oh gosh, girl, I totally understand. And you know, it's okay. I've actually done the same thing or I actually recently did the same thing and thank you for telling me, but I totally get it. You're totally good.
And so it's like, it's and therefore it's like then they both go out. Do they ever stop? No, they never actually stop. They're like, Oh, I confessed it. I got it off my chest. The person kind of validated me. They're kind of doing the same thing. I'm not alone here. Yeah. And it's not like they're it's kind of like an unsaid giving each other permission to do keep doing. Yeah. Again, another whole pass by and we see this accountability. Yeah, we see this a ton in our communities.
And it's very normal. I find a guest. This has probably happened throughout the age of Christianity. But it's extending a whole pass because everybody else is doing it. And once you know that, then it's okay. Yeah. Versus looking at your conviction and scripture and what you've aligned with on God. Yeah. And like with that and I actually believe in this. I truly do. And I am in my 30s and I don't care. I'm going to say it.
I believe you should get accountability that you are afraid of and not afraid of in a bad way. But like afraid of of like man, like if I had to tell this person that I crossed this boundary, I would not like to have that conversation. Yeah. That's the tough love person that you gave for mission. Yeah. You gave it. And most importantly, you gave them permission. You gave them authority in your life to speak as the top of the fountain down to you saying, Hey, you're better than this.
Like it's not okay. You know, like you and I both talked about this. Like we're not going to do this anymore. Yeah. I agree, babe. Yeah. And I've. So we actually have two friends or we have a couple that we keep accountable to. And then we each also keep accountable to friends separately or to like our board of advisor people. Yeah. So there's multiple people out for our side that for how we've kept it accountability. Yeah, both couple wise and individually.
Yeah. And it's important because I would say two things. Make sure you're proactively volunteering information. Yes. You have to invite people into this. That's a thing. Don't just expect that people are going to try to follow up. They're not going to follow up. Like, hey, this is what we decided. I want to invite you and to ask you me any questions you need to checking in with me. Yeah. Like if you're okay, I want to be open. If anything does happen, I want to be the first to come to you.
Yeah. And you know, if it's, you know, whatever it is, whether you're single or dating and you're having somebody holding accountable. Just try and get it on a rhythm. You know, it doesn't have to be if it's you guys are in shared space. Have a code words that, hey, how's the weather lately? You're good or bad. You know, just have a way, you know, have a way to kind of check in and be creative about it. Especially if you're like in public or in a small group setting.
Yeah. And then make sure you're having that individual kind of download as well. Oh, I have friends that straight up ask me Kate and they are like graphic with it like this, that and the other. And I'm like, thank you for asking me. I really appreciate that. But I've given them, I've asked them to and I've given permission. That's the thing. Again, what it's not about being cool.
Like if you have a sexual ethic that you are convicted about and powered by like you should be doing everything to maintain that. And that means setting a strong accountability, not weak accountability. Like we are human beings. We need accountability in so many ways. Like honestly, if I have a gym plan, unless I have people also rallying around me and keeping me accountable. That's why I love having a trainer because the trainer is going to make me do it and keep me accountable.
And I need that because I know otherwise I'm going to have acid. It's great. Yeah. It's great. And what's more important here too is going back to the why behind the what? Yeah. If you're setting, you know, these rules and half, you know, heartedly kind of acknowledging them and having somebody follow up on them and being accountable. It's like, it's really, you're not going to be driven by conviction. Yeah. Yeah. In conviction, it's such a loaded word. It's such a great word.
Yeah. In conviction, yeah. And when you're convicted by these boundaries and you have other people there to hold your accountable because the reality is this, my favorite part of the title of this episode is it's how to set boundaries, right? Like, understanding the why the men's why the beautiful why and how to keep them because how to keep them is really hard. It's like a diet. It's like, you know, it's very easy to slip up on the stuff.
So keeping them is probably just acknowledging that you're not going to be perfect here. But what you can be perfect about is how you respond and how you change it moving forward and how you set guard rails. Yes. You know, to these, these triggers and these reactions because you are a human being with a sexual side, which is a great gift. Beautiful. And we celebrate that side because God made it and it's just a journey that you're going to have to learn by probably mistakes.
And so when you make those mistakes, it's more important about how you respond. Yeah. And I think it just comes back to knowing it. The first part is knowing him, setting him and keeping them, but knowing them has to be deep. And if you are constantly crossing them, I have a feeling it's because you don't truly know and aren't truly convicted by them.
Yeah. I think it's probably you're not truly convicted because you don't know why you're not, but it's always be connected to the why that's you got to do it. Yeah. It's funny because like this is the same information I would use if I was like encouraging somebody in a business. Like your business is going to flounder unless you know your why. Like you're going to hit a stopping point or a failed idea and you're going to give up.
If you don't know your why and it's not super clear and you are like leaning into that every single day and you feel empowered by it, then your business is going to fail. Yeah. I know it's like a total random. I love that. I think it's true. I love that because when you have a strong enough conviction, you also have tenacity. Like you're tenacious about this stuff. Like it matters. It's important. You know, it's not a it's not a it's not a playground. It's not something to play around with.
And I think that's why the Bible speaking towards sexual sin uses such like strict and harsh language. It's flee. You know, it's it's run because. Yeah, but it is your it is. You know, it's the devil's playground, you know, to mess around and catch us sleeping and it's like you have to have a lot of sobriety here. Yeah. So I really respect the Kate sobriety and her why behind the what and the army of accountability people as she had in her life like I could tell.
Even though there was a sexual background, there is a serious like tenacity to handle this and keep her accountable and glorifying God. Yeah, I love that. It was so attractive. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, baby. You're welcome. And so keep accountable. Get strong. Kill accountability partners. It's again, not about being cool. It's about being clear and also being clear and inviting other people into that journey with you. People that are just going to be like, it's fine. You're like, I've done it too.
Okay. Those are not the people who should be your accountability partners. Hello. Exactly. Get new ones. Yeah, exactly. It's not about the should. The should not. It's not about the do's and don'ts. And if and if you are there like my heart goes out to you know, I grew up in rural Tennessee. What the youth pastor who ended up the cards and gave his best shot. Like I love the intention there. Like I know he loved his kids. I know he loved us and wanted the best for us.
But it's the why is so much more important than the do's and don'ts. And your do's and don'ts will never hold. Yeah. Unless you know the why. Yeah, exactly. That's probably like the whole heartbeat of the episode today. Yeah. And so that's basically it for physical boundaries. I mean, there's so much more we could say. Like I told you at the beginning, we're not going to give you this specific list, right, babe? But like, make out or don't make out. Like do this and don't do that.
Like there are, I really want to encourage you before we even share all of those parts for us. Like you guys need to get back to your why. Back back to the heart of God. If you've been shoulded on a lot. From other people telling you what you should be doing. If you've been shooting on yourself, like take it. You need to work through those layers and come back to God. What is your desire for sex? What is sex? What is your desire for sex? Like and and sexual intimacy.
And what is like what is my sexual desire? Do I have shame about my sexual desire? Like how do how can I work through those layers of shame? The the layers, those things so that I can get to truly what is beautiful that you have created and then develop my why around that? And without a place of like outside of a place of fear outside of a place of shame and into truly the beautiful conviction and power meant excitement around this wonderful thing that God has created. Yeah. It's so funny.
I think about like when you're 15 years old, it's Friday night. You're trying to go out with your friends and you said, can I do X Y Z? No. Why? Because I said so. The worst. Yes. That's not going to do me any good on understanding why you don't want me to go out. I know. I literally thought of that earlier. Yeah. Like there's no you get no. Yeah. So imagine receiving that. Yeah. There's just no trust and there's no like well now I really want to go now.
I really want to go be a bad boy and open up my windowsill. This is Kate. Snake and Owl. Excuse me. I had to. Yeah. Snake and Owl because you know you if you don't understand the why you're probably going to break it. Yeah. So know your why first and then you can set the boundaries by being honest with yourself, honest with the person early on. Getting on the same page and then keeping them looks like getting on the same page, staying on the same page and getting great accountability.
Yeah. Within the process. And here's the thing. If you guys mess up like we're not the people are going to be like, oh my gosh, you need to break up immediately like gone. The relationship is over. I really don't believe that at all personally. I believe there's so much redemption and that God can do so much. I hate that personally when people are like, you've messed up now break up. Yeah. I know lots of couples. I know. And you guys probably do. And you do as well.
And you know, we know the couple who has not kissed till the altar. And we also know couples who really, you know, messed up on boundaries. And so God can use both. God is greater than those mistakes. And God can use both. I think so. So important. It's super. Yeah. And like I said, I hope Kate's experience and my experience really speaks to maybe one side or the other. And feel free to comment questions. You know, what you guys want to double tap into. Yeah. On YouTube.
It's super helpful for us because we know these are really hard conversations. There's lots of great content. I was laughing when we were doing the prep for this because every Christian couple you've heard talk about this. What did they say at the beginning? What? Well, we weren't perfect. But here's our list. Oh my God. It's so funny. And we're not going to come on here, babe, and tell them exactly what we did or exactly what they should do. I just am not here to shed more on you.
Yeah. And it's we're not going to come on here and say, well, were you wearing a perfect, but here's the list. I'm like, you get it out of us. I think, you know, some people learn that way, but what's more important, what Kate and I decided is like the why behind the why and maybe we can do that. I mean, it might be even fun. I was like an engaged couple who hasn't had sex yet because this is what is like teachable and what we're placing our bets on them. What our conviction is and why?
Like, why do we use sex the way we do? Yeah, even though we've never experienced it together. Yeah. You know, and marriage. Yes. That should be a clarifying thing. We've never had sex. Great. Yes. Together. Yes. Correct. Anyway, hey, guys, I hope this was a good episode and helpful for you. I really encourage you to also listen to last weeks. If you missed it about sexual past, talking about that, approaching your partner sexual past and history when you should bring that up. So good.
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It is a part of the converge podcast network. Our incredible editor is the one and only Scott Carro. Our theme music was developed by the amazing Christian Ladou, special shout out to Andrii Maga and Gabriela Asperru, who make the show possible each week and help to keep me safe. If this is your first time listening to the podcast or if you've never written us a review or ranked us on iTunes, we'd encourage you to do so because it helps us so much to get this podcast into more people's ears.
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