What is up my family? It's Kate Warman here and we are on our last week of 2020, which also means we are on our last week and episode of this mini series before diving into season 6 next week. Now I don't want to say we saved the best for last, but we kind of saved the best for last. We saved probably the hottest topic and hottest question that you all ask us for this episode. Today, JD Rodgers and I are answering the question, is making out a sin.
Now I just love this question, I know it's crazy and a little bit out there, but y'all are thinking about it, okay? And so we get real about it and I hope that you hear both of our hearts in this conversation and something I want to make very clear is we are not here to tell you what to and to not do.
I want to invite you to submit and surrender that to the Lord and have conversations with your community and specifically with God about what you feel like he is convicting on your heart and in your spirit in terms of temptation and physical boundaries.
So I'm just going to leave that to y'all, we are not here to tell you what to and to not do. We are here merely to offer our input, our insight and what we think and how we've personally navigated things such as physical boundaries in our own dating relationships. So without further ado, here is our final episode in this mini series with JD Rodgers, where we're talking about is making out a sin. We are here. Are you ready? Yes. Is this the grand finale? Is that how we're going to do it?
The grand finale. We are ending y'all today. This is so fun. Is making out a sin. Talk about hot things. Let's like just put it out there. You clicked on this because you wanted to know the answer. That's right. So back. We know it. But this is the question looming in so many people's minds outside of me getting questions about like hey, what about online dating, hey, where all the Christian guys, probably the two biggest things I get asked.
It's like what about physical boundaries like whenever we've done anything on physicality, people are like clicking. Yeah, exactly. Or they want to know. And so let's let's start it out JD. What do we think? Yeah, I would say the reason why people want to know is because there's nothing in scripture that is clear in terms of like so what it is clear is we know that sex is designed to be for the wedding bed.
Yeah, it's supposed to be for marriage. And so we do know that line, but there's so many other things that can happen without actual intercourse that people can get they can start to just make their own rules. And that even then can result in a lot of hurt because anytime you get physical with someone you are creating strong ties and bonds to them. It just adds another layer of complexity that you're introducing into your relationship.
Absolutely. So people don't know how can I do that well and set myself up for success. That's why everyone's asking. And I just want to start by saying like there has been a lot of different shaming narratives about sexuality and back in the day, especially the purity culture, I can stay to goodbye and all of that. I just want to go ahead and say like I wrote a chapter in my book. Thank you for rejecting me about sexual shame.
And your sexual desire is not bad. It's really beautiful. We I talk about that all in chapter three of my book. And it is an amazing thing. If you have a sexual drive sexual desire, awesome. Like that is a beautiful godly thing. Now we have to talk about like how do we steward that well in dating and then saving whatever that is for us for marriage.
Right. Because that is like you said how God intended for it to be. But I do think that we like our like oh my gosh, we're so afraid even have this conversation because there's been so much shame around the narratives of sex and sexuality and all of that. Totally. And so if you're looking for one of us to say right now is making out a sin and give you a yes or no answer, you're not going to find it. So sorry.
Sorry about you. You're not going to find that. But what you will find is I do believe a lot of times the why or the agenda or the reasoning behind why a person could choose to introduce making out into the relationship could be because of sinful tendencies. Which hey, again, that's not shaming. We are broken humans like trying to figure this out. So a lot of people right now might just not even be aware that they're doing this.
And that's that's part of growing and like going to the journey and figuring out these interesting nuances of dating. And so what all I'm going to do. K is I think when I disciple guys or even guys that are in the same walk of life as me and we're like trying to be a Christian man's goal in dating is to first honor God. And as a result of that honor his child. And so to honor the woman that we are dating. So we're you know one of the ways that you do that is you're.
You're you're constantly talking with guys about hey, this took place or hey, we're talking about this. And that's why you get sometimes people decide I'm not kissing until the wedding altar. And like people laugh at that and make fun of that. And I would say don't do that. You could think it's a. Yeah, don't make fun of them. Like don't don't be like, oh my gosh, probably like that might be that man doing the best thing he could do to honor that woman.
Knowing himself knowing their relationship knowing her background. Like yeah, exactly. And so he's like, I care about you so much. I'm going to lay aside my needs to show you how much I take. Seriously, that is a brave mood. That's not a move to be laughed at. It's a brave move for that man to do that. But I think a lot of people aren't there. They're like, hey, I'm okay with kissing. Okay, with kissing good night. I'm okay with showing affection in that way.
I'm just making out though. And I just I just want to even clarify what making out is. It's all it's awkward, but let's do it. If the lips are moving and a tongue is involved, you are making out. Okay.
I'm sorry, I can't believe we have to clarify, but yes, everybody is making out. French kiss some might say it's so. And so because I think if you will be like, well, what is that? You know, like, you know, whatever. So with that, here's the advice I give guys. I always ask them to search their why behind their action. And it's like, hey, why do you need to do that? Or why are you choosing to do that? What are you hoping to gain from that?
I mean, a lot of times it's like, well, man, I just want to show her that I care about her or man, I need to know there's like physical chemistry or she's never kissed someone. And so I don't, you know, I don't know if, you know, it's like, hey, I wouldn't be hesitant of that why? Because that sounds like you're putting a lot of chips into the physical chemistry of that person. And that is not a legitimate reason to know if you should be with someone or not.
So that's one thing I would say like check your heart there because that's just not the thing that's going to sustain your marriage is how good your physical life is.
And so. And the other thing actually you just pointed out, which I think a lot of women cling to to, well, I feel like they, I want to show them I care about them. And a lot of, you know, women want to do or end up doing physical intimacy with the guy because they're like, I think that's what he wants. So I want to give that to him.
You know, and that we need, I want to debunk the fact that, hey, like we need to not only like try to honor God in this process. Like what is honoring also to yourself? What are your own physical, what are your own boundaries for yourself? How do you honor your own body? The temple that God has created? How do you walk that out and dating? Because you just wanting to make out with somebody because you think that's what they want isn't also, isn't honoring you.
Like you're, and we have our, we can have our own boundaries personally, you know, like otherwise I'm just doing it because that's what they want me to do or because I think that's what they need to connect to me. And I think that we need to instead value ourselves and God enough to know that we don't have to do that. Totally, totally. And then with that, I ask the guy, what are you hoping you receive from this that you don't already have?
Like, again, it's just like, it's like putting, how much weight are you putting in this? It's like it's just challenging that which is healthy, challenging your friends and the decisions they make in their dating life is okay. And it's healthy. There should be more of it. Probably a lot less hurt would happen if people did that more. Hey guys, I want to take a quick break in this epic mini series with JD today to share something with you.
I think you're going to absolutely love as we close out this crazy year of 2020 and move into a fresh new year. If you haven't already heard me say it recently, I opened up on Instagram about having gone through a very unexpected heartbreak earlier this fall. Now on top of all the 2020 ups and downs, I was not expecting that breakup. And maybe you felt discouraged or grieved by some different things that 2020 has brought.
Maybe you also lost a relationship like I did or maybe your dating life has just felt more bland and hopeless than ever before. Or maybe you've put yourself out there and just keep feeling discouraged with the results. The reality is, it's been a really tough year for so many of us. And when it comes to our prayer life, it's actually been hard for so many people to find consistent rhythms.
I mean, you think you'd be the opposite because we've been home more during the pandemic. But what I've personally found is that I've been actually more unmotivated and more distracted this year than ever before at home. Can you relate? Well, I have something today that's going to help you with all of that. Throughout my breakup this year, I found it's more important than ever to establish a routine of consistent prayer.
That's where my friend Stephanie May Wilson's amazing and beautiful prayer journal called Every Single Moment comes onto the scene. For me, I want my prayer time to be more than just something I check off the list. You know? I wanted to be the time I look forward to most every day as a way to pray for myself, praise God for what he's doing, and intercede on behalf of others. Every single moment has helped me to stay on track, be focused, and get re-excited about my prayer time every day.
I also love that in the prayer journal, it helps you navigate what you're feeling, and what you're processing through different journal prompts, and it encourages you to get really real with God and yourself about what you're really feeling and where you're really at. Here's some of the things that every single moment helps you sort through.
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Let's talk about what it does physically to a guy because I think for a lot of guys, I can't speak as much for women. Maybe you can but for a lot of guys. It's really hard to stop it making out because what what making out does to your body is it starts to arouse it or wake it up and say to your body, hey, we're heading towards a destination because that's the way that your body was designed.
If you don't believe me, men, you know what I'm talking about what happens to your body. If you stop after you've told it, hey, we're heading towards a sexual act. There's a physical ramification of the action of waking up your body sexually and then stopping it. Why would that be? Because the body wasn't designed to start and stop. It's not healthy. Your body is going to only want more and more for it to actually follow up in its design.
That's what makes it harder and harder and harder. If you introduce making out into your relationship, it's like, man, your body isn't going to be very confused. You're putting your body through some pain that it was never intended to go through. It's like, is it really worth it? Can you really not wait until marriage and if you can't, why is this an idol in your life? That is the norm. Most guys appreciate that advice and go, you're right.
When it comes down to it, I just want a physical knee mat because it's fun and it makes me feel something and I'm a sexually driven person. There's just some people that's like, no, here's the argument I get a lot. When I hear older men talk about this, they're like, if you say, no, we can make out and that doesn't happen to me and we're good, they'll be like, red flag. Why doesn't that happen to you if you're into this person?
It's like a catch 22 of why I don't want more. Again, to me, people I'll be asking, do you make out JD? I don't. Because I have personally found that it's not helpful for me to put my body through such confusion. Why are you convincing me that this is about to happen and then shutting me down? Why doesn't appreciate that? I always find myself wanting to do more.
I've just told myself, I'd rather sacrifice now, something good now for a better, great later when it's in God's design, it lacks guilt and shame and I'm walking and I'm honoring God's daughter and it's going, it's like following what I believe. I'm not going to say, safe play. It's in a holy sacred context. I'm not going to lie. I've made out with lots of guys that I've dated and that's definitely been something for me that where I don't, my start of relationships, there's no kissing.
I try my best to like, hey, not until I don't want to kiss at all until I know where I stand with you. But I'm not going to say you're also going to say you guys that I haven't made out with guys I've dated or haven't even in the last few years.
I think that would just be an authentic of me to do that. So I'm just going to admit to that right now. However, this is something I've openly talked about in the podcast. It's also something that I've had to recognize as a downfall for me and something I've had to work through.
Like I have found myself in the past, getting too much validation through the physical connection. And so in having to go to honestly a ton of therapy to work out, why is it that I feel more connected or desire that connection of physicality? And that for me has been something where I've had to recognize some really sad tendencies or sad moments in my life that have created bad tendencies.
And so for me, I've had to do a lot of work, especially in the last few years to feel like to figure out what is my, is my like that, my sexual desire is good.
Then once I figure that out and debunk all the other things I thought about myself, my sexual desire, what men think of me, then how do I rebuild that to say what is it that I really desire and why and what do I also know about myself, my old tendencies, you know, that are that are still there, you know, those tendencies aren't don't just disappear.
Like if I've practiced them for so long, so that is definitely a journey that I would encourage people if you've struggled with physical boundaries, like go on that journey, it is a journey, but it's so important to figure out like, hey, why am I just constantly falling into like making out with people or craving physical intimacy when I date someone off the bat or trying to set boundaries and never being able to follow them, you know, and that's not to say to create shame just like lovingly and compassionately.
Work that out with yourself and with God before you date because my biggest thing is in a relationship when you're dating you guys need to be on the exact same page, a lot of people enter a relationship in one person's on page two and the other person's on page three, let's say, and I'm like, it will not work out like you as the page two person will most likely end up going to page three that's likely what will happen.
You guys both need to be on the exact same page about what it is you're doing moving forward totally and that's I mean, and I would say again, I want to keep saying this, that's that's the man's job too many women have to fight for that clarity of are we on the same page and it's the man's job to lead and say, this is how I'm going to pursue you, these are our boundaries.
And these are what I feel like we need to put in place to honor one another to the best of our ability in a way that honors God. And so that's about all I have on the topic, I mean, I could go further and further, but I would say that's the main gist of like your your goal in dating is to honor the other person well because they are gods, hopefully they are gods son or daughter.
And a lot of times you have to ask yourself and is this physical need to meet my need and I'm not even considering the other person. And that's just that's not what truly caring for someone is. Yes, I love that. Boom. This show is part of the Converge Podcast Network.