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What you'll find is as you adopt a higher level and a higher community of love, that you're much more willing to accept the failures and faults of others, even whenever it begins to prick away at the very thing that you're insecure about.
What's up everybody? It's Kate and JJ. It's Kate and JJ and this is season 13 hot takes on the Hard to Dating podcast. And this has been a great season. We have some covered some great hot takes just to give you a reference. We've covered a Christian to overspiritualized dating. We have talked about date the boring guy. We've talked about don't marry, don't date for marriage. What do we mean by that?
That goes in that episode. What are some men episodes that you cover? We've had some great main soads. We've I think we last week we did you always married the wrong one. Break out with them if you're having sex. And I think one of the best performing ones is men won't date women. They're not attracted to. Right because it comes on the heel of me saying I wasn't initially attracted to my husband. And so those two episodes have been killing it. If you haven't listened to those highly recommended.
But it's been really fun again. We love hot takes because we're not just trying to stir the pot to get engagement up and get clicks and get comments. That definitely happens like people put out clickbait. Our genuine heart is that there is a good truth in here that is different from maybe a truth or a message that we might have heard growing up. And that we need to hear in today's time. Yeah. So the hot takes we have our hot takes that either we agree with or that we're trying to debunk.
So today's hot take is something along the lines of you should only marry a virgin or maybe you should not marry a virgin right which like you know the hot take that a lot of people have is no no I'm only going to marry a virgin. Before the episode is there anything I need to know about hearted dating events can't be a J. D. anything I need to know.
Yeah you guys if you want to join can't be a J. D. it's coming up this September 27 through 29th and Ashville and you know we're getting on the heels of selling out we love to have you. It's going to be such an incredible time of intimacy we have incredible mentors who are coming we have a psychiatrist we have a counselor we have a revivalist we have J. J. mom we have so Eleanor is going to be there. And it's going to be beautiful and fun right why don't you talk about the fun.
I mean we have J. J. helping out as the fun map no we have other people yeah but we have a lot of games I think that's my favorite part is literally like imagine adult summer camp for what we experience growing up as a teenager as a kid yeah right is that a good way to have a smorge we're going to have just so many fun different things on top of the competition yeah lots of competition on top of intention. You know learning and healing time so it's going to be so great can I bring my switch.
I guess yeah my intent is why not yeah so good hard dating dot com for slash camp h. O. D. to check it out. Hey one last thing we have our pop and over on patreon we love our patreon community we do so much over in that community we even do one on one coaching in there it's the only place that we do one on coaching and we do live matchmaking events so you can join and support this podcast for as low as $5 a month by going to patreon dot com
forward slash heart of dating and we'd love for you to do that because it really helps us out all right so wait before we get into today's episode I thought to say that was the shortest intro we've ever had well I have a question for you okay so we're talking about being a virgin and how a lot of people have the perspective of you know I only want
to say that's the best way to get a date of virgin I was not a virgin when we got married you were a virgin so my question for you before we get into today's episode with Alison Daniel is when you found out I was not a virgin how that make you feel I mean we did an episode on this right navigating sexual pass and I think when I found out you weren't a virgin I wasn't surprised because I think I
was a virgin I was a virgin and I think that's where I would love if you're a virgin for you to say thank God I am because it's only through God's grace that I've been able to be a virgin and I think that's where I was and partnering with him and for the other part my partner it's I think you can hope you know I'm pray for someone that's a virgin better the same time it's like man their heart
matters 10,000 times more than the checks box on whether or not they're a virgin or not but I still think and we didn't talk about in this which is someone who has had 100 sexual partners and someone who's a virgin that's obviously going to bring different challenges and
complications into your marriage right like that is reality in life of having multiple sexual partners versus not just as much though as me as a guy who's a virgin saying well I might not have had a hundred sexual partners but I've had a thousand sexual partners with online pornography and a
decade of porn use yeah so first of all where we really are comparing apples and apples it's just whether or not we had a physical relationship with this one or it was just an object or a person on the internet but to both are going to bring a multitude of challenges and when you get married both people are bringing luggage huge two cases and problems and it's your problems together right there's no such thing as your little pile of trauma and bull crap and baggage it's our pile of trauma
baggage and bull crap yeah it's so my responsibility to heal through it yes also yeah accepting and that's where but it's interesting because from a virgin's perspective a lot of virgins had the perspective I don't have any sexual baggage or trauma or any right and I think that's the biggest lie of pride and arrogance that I've seen from purity culture birthing you know idolatry of of sexual history and purity above everything else that doesn't define you
right it really comes down to the core question of what defines you and your sexual purity does not define you the only thing that can define us as Christians is the blood of Christ yeah amen so well thank you babe I'm really good amen well let's get into this do it all right all right we got Daniel and Alice madry what's up you guys what's up hey guys we're excited to be here do you like their outfits I love it I think it's like a his and her set from Zara is that right we
woke up this morning and said if we're going to do one thing we're going to match you know what I mean way who who makes you match the issue is is that we match more than we care to admit and and it's never intentional like not once have we been like oh you should wear this because I'm wearing that it's usually like take that off it's the exact same thing I'm wearing except in a different gender this happens like five out of seven days
okay well to be fair to make you guys feel better I intentionally make JJ match with me sometimes so there you go where the people it's adjacent like I see there's a black and white theme but if you guys both had like the vertical stripes like we do complimentary like even this was unintentional today but like I do sometimes going to church I'm like hey babe I'm wearing this let's put Eleanor in this and then you can just wear beige
pulls of caution she says we're going to match today and you're going to like it and then people comment they're like that's so cute and I'm like yeah I like it I don't know you know okay so love like getting to know you guys over the last few years we were just talking about some fun stories of when we knew each other before we were all married like literally we were all single this is before JJ was in the picture we even spent a new years together where you guys were not we were yeah we were
figuring stuff out we were together but not there was pre dating energy all over the place yeah exactly and two months later you came along JJ actually at that trip I was kind of you know interested in somebody else just saying yeah we don't talk about them I'm kidding I'm kidding there's a lot of those people who it's kind of like it's like you should not be named it's just like forty of all the words okay my gosh yeah the
funny thing is we're although we're in a large pool we're kind of in this small dating pool where everyone's eyes are kind of on the same people and as we get older the matches kind of seem to take shape and here we are we're all where we need to be I remember when I was single and you know you would just have all your friends kind of go on dates with the same people are people are people who are adjacent and you're just kind of like well we've all got to get married yeah surely
there's a connection in here so I'll just pick teams and go forward let's just all go for it wait Alice I'm just remembering this now were you not also in our heart of dating conference like there was something with Alec and a panel were you in that panel the single person I was in Daniel were you in it too I was okay no I was like I first I know there was a guy on it but yes Alice you were in it I remember
some of the things you said I was like yeah girl get it was this Alice rock girl I like her and that's that's how our podcast is going to go I'm like yeah go on go on go on I was I was thinking about that panel this morning as we were preparing for this because I thought I can't remember
any of the things I said on that panel but I hope I would still stand by them it was so good I love I loved it the Alec led that panel it was so good you got to watch it it was like in 2021 yeah I love to and so now together you guys work together and you guys you guys just run the moral revolution
Instagram is that and well website it's more than an answer yeah I'm kidding yeah definitely more than an answer yeah tell us about moral revolution well it's incredible because so many people think it is an Instagram account like yeah you guys run the account huh you guys have the account
but really our ministry goes so much deeper than that yeah and so more actually moral revolution way predates us it was started by someone named Chris Valatin and there's been a few iterations of it have a look huntington let it for a while more recently colon Caitlin Zick and then we just took over
about nine months ago as the new directors but our entire mission is to tell the world a better story about sex I mean the reality is it's like the world has their you know version of what sex is and how it should be and you know all of the rules around it or the lack of rules around it
and the church has their own set of rules around it which doesn't always hit the mark and so the goal is to say okay what is God's design for sex and how do we honor him through that in today's culture yeah and that's primarily so Instagram is just one channel or platform you
guys do podcasts and then you guys do events and classes and courses we do exactly you nailed it and we also have a flagship book that we did not write but there is a book called moral revolution that's really the bedrock of the movement at large and since the book was written and you know
I think it's been updated a time or two maybe even needs to be updated again because just the landscape of sexuality and dating and all of these things has changed so drastically um since 2009 yeah and so I would I would say that I would say that you know that message that core message of
telling a better story about sexuality has expressed itself in any medium that we can get in front of people you know we've even got things like you know leader guides to go along with the book we do we do live events of course we'll travel and speak we've got the podcast that's a big hit
and uh and yeah the Instagram where it seems most people find it which is great I mean that's a huge account it's super easy as a Christian to follow along and then that's what you guys kind of use as like the top of the funnel yeah bring people in and you guys also have a blog too like
I've read tons of articles on revolution.com we haven't we I want to say there's like 400 plus articles on the blog answering just every question every question you could imagine about sex and sexuality the moral revolution blog has tacked that's right in full disclosure will uh will
look at some of the blogs that are written and say well I did we write a blog about this and of course that's all open with our team and all of our contributors and they're like because someone asked yes someone literally asked this question so we're gonna answer that's amazing you
gonna send me what those articles are privately after because now I want to read them I know me too they get they get scared you'll have to dig deep but if you dig deep anyone can find it so funny okay well like today we have a very specific question I think this question's probably been
around for centuries right uh and it makes tons of sense and the question that I would ask you guys is as a Christian and there's a lot to impact here but as a Christian do I want to or only or can I only marry a virgin right there's so many different variations but at the core of it is like
what happens when I want to marry someone and they're not a virgin or do I only look for people who are virgins yeah I was kind of like that in the season on hot takes and why I wanted to do this topic is because we have a really big Facebook group but I'm always looking in there and kind of like
peeking in at like what the conversation's looking like and over the past six and a half years well five and a half years since that Facebook group started um I've noticed just a repeating pattern of this question are people being like oh no my non-negotiable is I will only marry a virgin like
sorry if they're not a virgin I'm not gonna marry them it's it becomes a non-negotiable for people and so yeah do you guys think that should be a non-negotiable we'll just kick it off there I I do not think it should be a non-negotiable I would imagine we're in a green man I think the pool
gets very small if you're like hey I'm only willing to marry someone who's never made a mistake uh of course you know that that it is a little heavier than saying you know hey I have a history with pornography or you know or I haven't had sex but you know maybe I've gone too far in other
areas so you know there there's no discounting that that it's a heavy topic but you know one of the things I like to say is like hope is in like just because you've made a mistake doesn't mean that your entire future is now jeopardized doesn't mean that you're not going to have the opportunity
to step into all of God's promises I think that you know if we as Christians start ruling out people who have big mistakes and big past I feel like we kind of isolate ourselves from even the the central message of the gospel which is absolute redemption yeah the reality is when I was dating
I wasn't looking for someone who was just hard stop a virgin yeah like who do we think is a virgin I'll probably ask them on a date my my main goal was to find someone who was fully submitted to Jesus and you know we find that in the Christian life when you are fully submitted to Jesus
whatever came before that submission the scripture says that your sins are separated as far as the east is from the west if God is not bringing up that person's past and holding it against them who am I to bring up that person's past and hold it again now you know and what I also
no continue well I was just going to ask like I love that's our stance today and all four of us can say that confidently was it ever not your stance and did you as a Christian 16 18 22 kind of say yeah I'm open to a non-version but I prefer a virgin like was that ever part of your theology
and do you see that with maybe someone who follows more revolution is new to your teachings yeah you know I would say that when you know when I was 13 and I'm like making a list you know we all had our list yeah these are the things that I want I can remember it was very trendy to make
this list I was actually an eighth grade and everyone was making their list and we were bragging like oh I've got 110 things on my list or I've got 150 things on my list and it's like okay well you know I think you know you have your list and the list becomes a very very very idealistic
situation and then the older you get the more you realize the realities of the human condition and also the power of the redemption of God and I also think the longer you walk with God the more you realize oh my goodness I am capable of so much sin like I am if like you know we like to point
fingers and be like well this person to that or this person to that but the longer you walk with God and you just see how good and perfect he is you start to realize wow I just did not measure up I may have followed the rules in this area this area and this area but I needed the blood of
Jesus to cover me and make me right it's so true you know I was talking with a friend the other day and he was he was you know he's really working hard on his marriage he's working hard on you know being a father and he was so resolved and he's like I will I will I will I will and I see like
he's just commanding himself that I will show up I will do all these things you know I will make good decisions I will and I and I said pause real quick I was like I want to present to you maybe the way that I see it and I was like the way I look at it I'm exactly the type of person
who would do all of those things if left alone I was like that's why I'm making mistake yeah make a mistake you know be a you know father who doesn't show up or a man who cheats on his wife or looks at pornography or any like that's a hundred percent the type of person I would be
without Jesus every day and so I'm like I wake up and it's not I will I will I will and it's very noble it is God without you there's no telling what I will do so I need you today and I think that you know whenever we're talking about you know our virginity and we're talking about you know
by the way our views change I think I used to have that same view of like here's my list is so long I'm really shooting for perfection you get older as being you know I got married I think you know a lot of us got married a little a little older um and I was like uh or a little older
than we wanted to and the older I got the more I was like you know what I'm looking at other people and marriages and I was at their wedding and now they hate each other maybe I should just temper this down a little bit that no one's going to be perfect that maybe if I just say you know what
I'm going to do the best with what God's given me or the best with what I choose to partner myself with and so if that person's a virgin that's fantastic you know kudos to you for being so devout and you know being able to win that very difficult battle if this person's not a virgin you know what
I get it life is hard things get complicated we do make mistakes and compromises but at the end of the day I know that I would do the same thing if I didn't have Jesus every single day with me yeah and I think it's also to take into consideration repentance like when someone has fully repented
and submitted their life to God and they you know are no longer walking in a lifestyle that's compromised by sin or even when they do make a mistake and they turn immediately back to God and they make a change it's not just an I'm sorry God but it is we are we are making an about
face turn and going a different direction I am much more concerned with fire I was much more concerned with finding someone who had that disposition my dad works in B2B marketing he came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man then he told everyone how much he loved
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questions we have gone before so okay let's say I do find out the person I'm dating has head text before is there a you know is there a line like for example what if it like what if they're now like I'm recommitted to not having sex before marriage but I had sex a month ago or maybe
it's like a year ago or you know something of that nature where they were like yeah I was I struggled with the sexual addiction to pornography and to having sex with people and actually that's like I actually dated somebody who this applies to and they came to me and they're like I had a
sexual addiction and they opened up to me about that and it and once I found out when it was you know wasn't that long ago and I struggled with that was like okay have you really made change towards a new pattern or not and it turns out he he hadn't made that much change towards a new
pattern though he was telling me he wanted to make change towards a new pattern so I guess my question is is there a line of like okay you know if they have a sexual path but it was five years ago it doesn't matter but what if it was a year ago what if it was a few months ago yeah just
curious what you guys would think about that you know I think that there's many ways to approach this first off time does tell a story you know what I mean so the fact that someone could say hey this number of years ago I made this mistake but since then I've lived you know repentant I've lived out my repentance and I've sought the Lord you know diligently I think that's very commendable and it does really nod to their character because you know anyone can show up for a day you know what
I mean anyone can kind of kind of live that life whenever the opportunities don't present themselves to them but at the same time I don't want to discount what God can do in a moment yeah truly and and the changing of a heart you know and I think of a friend who I grew up with and the thing is
him and I dated a girl the same girl at different times different stages he dated her in high school I dated her in college and I knew that they had dated and you know and they had had sex and all this stuff and I really I almost resented the guy in the moment of just you know he's careless
he blah blah blah blah I was probably more religious obviously than I am now and less grace filled and and then he got radically saved I mean like not like saved saved like whatever's beyond that like just encountered God in such a powerful way and laid his entire life down
that everything was different in a moment yeah and so I look at someone like that and I think oh what's interesting is he had had a very terrible past of drugs and sex and all this stuff what was interesting is he's like I don't even care if I get married you know like he was like
I want to live every day with the Lord that attitude is actually the kind of attitude where it's like but would you date me you know what I mean but would you be open to the idea where it's like hey I know you have a past but I can so clearly see the fruit of repentance and so you know it
can get it can't get really interesting whenever you're on a short timeline and is this a phase are you a you know Jesus tells the parable about the seeds being you know scattered and it's like you know some immediately receive the message with joy and then shortly thereafter kind of
fizzled out and that's a reality is that there are people who have made bad decisions who hear the message of the gospel and the redemption of Jesus Christ and they do receive it with joy there is authentic authenticity authenticity I'm sure with that one finishes more words than I care to admit
but at the same time the depth isn't there and time really does play that role although you know I like to be trusting I like to live open-handedly and I like to say you know what I trust you and if it turns out that maybe that wasn't the best idea then they're going to learn from it and
they're going to grow from it I have a question because I run to this a lot some of these couples are married today and some are not but it's been the exact same kind of scenario in both guy he's a virgin he's maybe on pesteral staff really you know limited sexual past as far as externally with
other partners I mean at this point I just operated an assumption that every guy on planet earth has struggle with pouring but they data girl they're in three months of dating four months five months of dating and then you know they're talking about marriage and he finds out that she has had
sex maybe it was a year ago maybe it was ten years ago point is is he's very disappointed and I've had some guys work through that disappointment it took them time it did take them time they were shook and then they came back to the table and then they got married I've had some that
just never looked at her the same way and this happens with both genders uh absolutely but what is it I really want to zoom in on what is it about that reaction that I'm a virgin they're not that gives us the right to be disappointed to dwell on it that makes it such a big deal
is it theologically sound is it pride is it arrogance is it judgment like do you see what I mean if I put myself into the situations what gives us that right to say oh my goodness I think it's probably a little bit of everything that you said uh and I also think that there we have to make space for disappointment in that you know at the end of the day it's a failed expectation this person was told usually by the church if you save yourself for marriage you will be rewarded with a virgin
spouse and then both of you will have saved yourself for marriage and so you like you just grip and claw your way to marriage and wear it as a badge and feel this sense of well I would just say expectation and I can't even fault people for the expectation because that expectation was put there by someone someone someone sent this message and so when you have a failed expectation it's only natural to go through a grieving process of discipline you know and you know deal with disappointment
yeah but I would say I would say it you asked is it pride is it arrogance there is that that creeps in as well and so I would say you do kind of have to find your way back to I I may have checked this box but I didn't check them all right well I've actually I've heard it said that you
reject and others what you fear about yourself and so and I've and I really have taken that I feel like I feel like I have the scientist personality where I'm always like just weighing things and I'm like how's how's this going to turn out is it's all here things and you know maybe even to
my detriment all here things and I'm like I don't believe you you know I won't say that but I'll just be very kindly listen to what someone has to say I do the same thing I'm always just like that is just so not true JJ it's very much yeah I'm like I believe everything you know I am much more
much more trusted I definitely believe very quickly well and so what I did is I heard that you reject and others what you fear about yourself and I thought okay what do I what do I find myself rejecting and others or are you even retroactively in the unhealthy seasons of my life what have I
rejected and I'm like oh my goodness oh I I have found this perclivity to reject people to reject people who personified the things that I was insecure about you know what I mean like if I'm insecure about the way I look then I'm going to reject you because you're ugly if I'm if I'm
insecure about how smart I am I'm going to reject you because you're dumb if I'm secure if I'm insecure about how much money I have I'm going to reject you because you're poor and so I think what it could reach yeah yeah yeah I think I think what it could be is that they have they have
idolized virginity and protected it so viscerally you know what I mean just like no one no one no one I'm not going to sleep I'm not going to do you know what I mean and then whenever they find out that someone they care about someone that they identify with through dating has actually failed
the thing that they're most insecure about they reject them because really what they're trying to do is say I'm okay I'm good enough I'm I am I am worthy I am but what you'll find is as you adopt a higher level and a higher community of love that you're you're much more willing to
accept the failures and faults of others even whenever it begins to prick away at the very thing that you're insecure about so interesting because you know the heart of that is Genesis 3 where we are God and we want the ability to say I am good and you are not I am good because I protected
this and you didn't so therefore right and yeah I just I and I get it I love your first answer though Alice which is that message came from somewhere yeah right so it's not necessarily always to the extent that fault but there's a grieving of a there's an unmet expectation and in
way like it's like we a lot of us if we grew up in the church and and that's usually why we are advergian right because this is what is taught to us usually it is like kind of put on the pedestal now I guess my question is what would be a healthy biblical stance on my sexuality in the sexuality
maybe I seek and hope and desire and espouse because you have prophets in the Bible who are being committed to Mary prostitutes right so it's like do I just throw sexuality out the window and just only look I hear this person is today and that their past no matter how devious
messie colorful whatever descriptor you want to use internal external with partners this is just not matter there's just truly not matter it truly only matters who they are today I would say yes I mean maybe you would disagree I would say that what story is the fruit of someone's life telling
like it's not just like I just have to take them at their word that this is all in the past it's there are things about their character that you should and their relational relational and emotional health that you should be able to have a pulse on today that would give evidence
of true transformation you know for instance you know we talk we talk a lot of the time about you know two people who are trying to get free from pornography and some of this conversation is a parallel but you know one of the things that we teach is that we all of us are triune beings
right we are a spirit we have a soul we're in a body we're all body soul spirit and all three of those beings have needs right your physical body is hungry is tired you know it hurts when you step your toe you know like you know your physical body has needs that need need to be
attended to your soul has emotional needs that need to be attended to your spirit has you have spiritual needs that only God can meet that need to be attended to and so one of the things that we have found is one of the biggest indicators of health in a person's current life is how well
they're able to assess the current state of their need and their lack and how well they're able to communicate about that so instead of someone just getting triggered and flying off the handle can they take a step back and go you know what I am not communicating how I want to communicate
I'm actually really tired I had a hard day at work and what I need right now is this and to take that you know application one step further what we've seen is that oftentimes people are feeling these emotions and they don't know how to identify them and we've even recommended I don't know
if you guys have ever done this but look up the emotion wheel and sometimes like my family I like to say I came from a family of psychics because we we never communicated our emotions like we all we all just had to not do mind reading like okay like how are they feeling today no it's never
really passive or angry it just wasn't spoken like we just didn't do that so I didn't develop that skill of identifying emotions now thankfully I was a decent communicator but I was not good at identifying emotions and so I would bring up the wheel and whenever I could say actually I'm feeling
disgruntled you know what I mean like just identifying it and all the sub emotions and once I identified it it's like oh well what do we need to do about that yeah and so learning how to identify your emotions and like Ellis said communicate them to your partner I feel like that's a
huge like that's a huge leg up for someone who's even someone who has a past because if you're dealing with someone's past you could say hey right now I just feel insecure because now we're in this sexual relationship and I don't know if the last person you slept with was better at sex than I am
you know what I mean okay well the moment you know you getting covenant with someone who's agreeing to identifying emotions and talking about it I feel like I feel like you can traverse relationships so much better even with someone who has a past now I don't know that I necessarily have a book in a verse for that a chapter in verse for that level of communication but I will
say that is a trait that we've seen. We you mentioned you know Alice you did mention like there could be room for some disappointment for somebody who what is a virgin was it may be expecting or wanting to marry virgin they find out five months in or however many months oh this person
isn't a virgin like I had imagined that is a very real situation that happened to me on the opposite side of I had a sexual past and I was with someone who found out about my sexual past and that was very hard for them now it was it was hard for them in the moment but what happened was it was hard
for them continuously right and so the disappointment didn't really go away it was like I did still feel kind of judged even though this very kind man he just didn't really know how to deal with that disappointment and the way he wanted to deal with that with me was talking about it with me like consistently bringing it up and the thing for me was that you know I had dealt with the shame I used to have a regarding my sexual past I had dealt with it so I came to that situation being honest
about what my past was but not feeling shame for it anymore but as he continued to like question me and ask me all these questions and express his disappointment it's like some of that shame started almost resurfacing because I'm like wait wait like I've dealt with this and and so and I'm I just
want to see what you guys think because for me what I had said to him was like hey like I think you need to deal with some of this disappointment outside of just with me because I've dealt with the shame that I've experienced and you consistently wanting to talk about it with me or ask me all
these questions that are more like judgmental questions not curious questions is making me starting to kind of go back into the ways of the some of the things that I feel like I've already conquered so I'm curious for you guys like if the if somebody is experiencing disappointment what
is the right way for them to work through that disappointment of finding out that their partner is not a virgin yeah you know I would say that do you have a counselor that was my first thought I was like you definitely need a counselor because at that point when you are obviously in your
specific instance you were you knew I am completely my life has changed this is in the past this is under the blood this isn't even who I am like I am a new creation in Christ so you know like today and in this moment this is a non-issue and so in that specific instance his inability to move
through to process and healthily move through his own emotions of course there might be an initial disappointment initial conversations maybe some curious questions but you should be able to healthily move through your own emotions and when that isn't possible then that tells me way more
about the person who has the clean past but can't process their emotions then it does with someone who has you know maybe you know a different you know a different past a story that they wouldn't you know have wanted to live looking back but is completely set free today I think it just you
know says it's like not red flag no I was literally thinking that's a red flag yeah I do red flag I need to go learn how to move through emotion yeah because you know we're only two and a half years into marriage and we're perfect that yeah we're only two years and so we're saying with
you guys perfect never made a single mistake you know right yeah well I think it was hard for Kay being married to a perfect husband but you know it's just pray for Kate right I mean imagine I think that would be a good idea I'm just I'm the sexually broken one my past is so bad and I'm married
to this perfect man okay sure I love I love no I was just you know like we've been married for a whole two minutes and so you know I'm not going to be out here in the let me give you marriage advice but I can speak from our own two and a half years of experience which is valid which is valid and
say there are so many emotions that come to the surface once you are in a covenant with someone and you can't go anywhere you're stuck with the person for life and the only two options you have are to experience your emotions and help helpily move through them or don't those are your only
two options and when you don't you start coping in other ways you start you know you start acting out you get you stuff it and you get resentful it causes more relational issues and so I would say more important than someone's past is you need to look for someone who is able to process and
communicate emotions and that's exactly what I was thinking whatever you were like when you kept bringing it up and it was kind of judgmental and it wasn't very curious you know it doesn't we're just spinning our wheels and I thought oh it sounds like a miserable person to live with
you know and life is so long don't I mean life is so long why did you do the dishes like this why did you not I know what did you well you know it's funny it's like I this is such a funny example but it's like I moved to the west coast and all I heard for years was how amazing
in and out was it is the most amazing burger it is literally God's goodness God's blessing and man touching your tongue and you will never be the same so I went into in and out with the highest expectations was your first time having it with me yeah and I was so disappointed the burger was fine
and the fries were actually awful like the worst fries thank you they're terrible the burgers are great this project I love burgers I think the burgers are pretty mid yeah they're they're very mid as the Gen Z folks say and the fries are just trash I mean absolutely horrible but the point is
is this I am still today like disappointed every time I have it and I am am I going to go to in and out and just complain complain and process like that disappointment has everything to do with me and my failed expectations versus in and out putting out terrible and am I just going to continue
to go to in and out in and out and now complaining to them why is it not this way what are you doing about it what are you guys going to change how is this going to be better or bounce around all you know finding going to my Taco Bell and saying this is just so much better than in and out right
but it has everything to do with me my failed expectations and my inability to work through that disappointment more than it actually has to do with that in and out burger and objectively terrible for well I'm sorry to out you but I think you have actually complained multiple times
that yeah but I'm still harboring because guess what I will say this it feels really good to sit in our resentment and our disappointment and the failed expectations point the finger it makes us feel better about ourselves to think we are the keepers and the holders of the good
thing yeah we kept the standard and you fell short not me yes which is great because it really does point us back to that irrevocable foundational truth which is guess what you messed up in so to die and so many ways and that's humility in living in reality which is I messed up
10 times worse than you ever could have imagined especially in my thought life especially in my fantasy life especially in my heart and if you would have ever have seen or heard the things I've thought of and committed in my heart you would not look at me the same way which points me to one
place Jesus right not the Sunday's go answer Jesus but genuinely I would not be who I am without Jesus and who he is in my life today and if that's true for me I bet the same thing is true for you if I'm saying that same fruit and I love what you guys it's so funny how you guys are more
revolution talking about sexuality and your biggest talking point is actually emotional and heart health of the ability to be in touch with emotions because suppressed emotions and coping with that pain actually just most often comes out in the form of sexual addiction and intimacy right
because yeah very well it's not so funny hey just going back I loved your analogy hate to rewind this far into the conversation but I was just listening to what everyone was saying what I think is interesting is probably the reason why you were so disappointed was because
someone else gave you the expectation and I think the church does that like the church puts such heavy expectation on that and then whenever we are left with the realities of life and hey you know even in the scriptures things got complicated relationships were not black and white
or and that doesn't give an allowance percent absolutely not I can tell you right now it makes things way more complicated if you if you have a past so like if you were looking for an excuse you don't have one like it's it's hard it's complicated it's difficult to navigate and so you know
remain pure because it's the best way forward in a future relationship but if that's not your story you know obviously there is hope what I was really just saying there is that you know the the the rest I mean the world you know Christians are left to grapple with the expectation that the
church put on us that oh you're gonna wait your future spouse is gonna wait thing you're you're both gonna be virgins when you get married and you're never gonna know another person and things gonna are gonna be perfect your honeymoon is gonna be you know heaven on earth and all this
stuff and well and that's a different conversation but I think had the church been maybe I don't want to say more realistic but not maybe harped so hard on on you know virginity and I think it's important I can't undermine you know the value of purity um but I think it would make a lot
it would make a lot of people a little more um it would make it easier for them to navigate the difficulties of marrying someone who maybe didn't uphold a standard that they did I also think it's very important to say that virginity is not the end all be all goal purity is yeah and
those are not synonymous and they're not synonymous totally you know oh congratulations you're a virgin but you you're an expert with your logged 10,000 hours of pornography right right or even even the way that you steward your thoughts even the way you steward your emotions the way that you I mean
purity starts you know starts in the heart yeah and everything flows out from there virginity is a fruit of purity but there are so many other fruits of purity as well the goal is purity the goal is closeness to Jesus and Jesus makes us pure and then it is shown through the fruit of our
life and virginity is just one way uh or one fruit that comes from pure yeah amen amen and you know it's it's just interesting to me I always think about the example of Jesus and the disciples and like you know he didn't choose the people to be his disciples that had the perfect past that came
up to like that were like you know the perfect students like he he chose people with broken past and he was like hey let's come with me and let's do this a new way and so I just I think it's so interesting we have this conversation and yes completely understand that there are people that have
been given some unfair expectations have been shown some unfair expectations so we make space for that and it's like let's also work through that because I just don't think that's the way Jesus if he was here today would function because it's not how he functioned when he was alive he looked at
any of the broken people and he was like actually I'd rather choose you than this person that is doing all quote all the right things and again not a whole pass to just go sin and do whatever you want but just to say like hey for those of you that are struggling with hey I need to marry a
virgin like I have to marry somebody with this background because I this is my background and it needs to be this way like is that really like Jesus's posture and you know or would is it more important like the fruit that they carry in their life today and where they're going
because I think that's what Jesus would look at personally yeah I think I think what's beautiful about the scriptures is that Jesus was not afraid of sin Jesus was not afraid of sinners Jesus was not there's some things that like we look at that we try to distance ourself from because we're
afraid of it you know we're afraid of what is what does that look like you know and so you reject what you fear and I think that I think that the power of hope is so much stronger than the fear of failure and so I would I would really I would really just lean into the hope of hey the Lord has
an incredible marriage for me the Lord has an incredible person for me this person might have a past that doesn't mean that that's gonna that that defines our future and you know what I think the Lord can do so much more with two people submitted before him with you know maybe a terrible past
then two pious people who are you know have a clean track record but are you know but have walls up and are rejecting the things that God has called us to well let's talk about how the only sinned mentioned in the Bible that it says God resists is pride yeah yeah so I think we have to
check the posture of our heart because I do many of us are proud of our virginity yeah yeah Cersei yeah Cersei yeah and I do think there's a difference of being proud like I really I really fought for this yeah you know yeah yeah you have a license to be like proud of pride like I'm
better than you and pride like I am better than you there's exactly a hundred percent yeah I mean Paul it's so funny when you repul and the Corinthians uh he talks about this idea boasting he's like I boasting you guys like look at look at what God did and look at what I did and what God did through
me like there is an element of boasting and what God has done through me and I would just say the idea that you still have your virginity on your wedding being is something to celebrate and rejoice and thank God for because the only way you have is because God right it is because God it is because
God's period like that is humility right yeah and that is humility right is just recognizing what is been given to you and what is truly God and what is not really you um and that partnership so thank you guys so much man I love it so more revolution on Instagram obviously you can find
you guys there but also if you didn't know they have so much more than just an Instagram if you guys have always thought it was just an Instagram but wait there's more yeah I do you guys have any cool things that they should check out at the moment obviously the website anything you want
to shout out yeah I would say the YouTube the YouTube is where we're you know putting putting a putting a lot of our focus um and so hit us up over on YouTube uh we we released podcasts every other week and uh we're having a we're having a good time over there the YouTube that's what the older folks said thank you too are you on the tiktok we are on the tiktok you want to find it into the www stuff so fine well thank you guys so much thanks guys we love y'all thanks for being here today
the heart of dating podcast is created by Kate and JJ Tomlin shout out to our epic audio and video editor Scott Carro we have an amazing heart of dating team who helps bring this show to you each week I want to shout out Kelsey Napier our heart of dating digital marketing coordinator and Elena
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