Oh hello, welcome to healthy Ish, your daily podcast from Body and Soul. I am your host of Felicity Harley, researcher TikTok Sensation, and author doctor Esme Luise James joins us today to discuss the evolution of kink. Plus she shares a few simple ways you can bring more spicy play into your sex life. If you like what you hear froms May, I know you will listen in to our really fascinating conversation on extra healthy Ish, where we discuss common sex taboos to stop believing. You can grab
our sister pod where if you get your podcasts. It's May nice to have you back on the podcast. How's it going?
It is going so well. I'm just glad to be back. And we had such a great chat last time we did.
And I have to have a shout You need a shout out for the doctor in front of your name. Which has happened since last time you're on the podcast. How does it feel?
It's still sinking in. It only happened about four days ago now. So I'm kind of doing the swapover of my driver's license, my passport, and I feel like I'm going to be the arrogant person on the plane. Now, if anyone calls for a doctor.
No, no, no, own it, own it and champion it, because damn you earn it. Whoever has a doctor, you earn it. Now, talk to us about kink. I feel like we're becoming perhaps a bit more relaxed about this term. What are you experiencing. I mean, you're at the call face, you see people's comments, You've got a massive online following. How do we feel about kink today?
I think the conversation is changing quite rapidly. You know, you only go back ten fifteen years on the internet, and we have that idea of don't kink shamee me kind of going around in millennial discourse on MySpace, the idea of, you know, don't yuck someone's yum.
But that conversation is changing.
Really quickly now because we're starting to not see kink as something that's just outside of the normal of sexual play, somethink that only a few freaky people like to get into.
We're starting to understand, in the same way as we understood in ancient times, that kink and exploration in the bedroom is a very very natural part of human sexuality, and that need to kind of explore different dimensions of how we can get as sexual pleasure is something we've always been incredibly interested in, and it's really nice to see that that conversation is starting to shift to more of a normalization of different forms of play in the bedroom.
Do you think the definition of kink has opened up in some ways because or well, yeah, perhaps do what are your thoughts?
The idea of kink normally encompasses when it was first kind of created as a term. When you have the likes of Sigmund Freud and Carved von air Being and everything, you know, they define kink, and the idea of it was to define what sexual practices are not normal, which I think is really important to remember that kink was never meant to be like a term of empowerment. It was essentially a term to diagnose perversion. But that is really really quickly changing, as we've said, to this idea
of embracing kinks and other forms of play. And also kink is very cultural in its definition. So if kink defines something that isn't normal, and in some cultures oral sex could be a kink, you know, that's not sexual behavior that's productive to procreation right, Whereas kink, because we might define it here in Australia, for instance, generally encompasses people who might want to explore bondage in the bedroom, handcuffs and feathers, different central forms of play. We have
a very different definition of kink. So I think it's really starting to own to be a more fluid term just to encompass play.
As I say, I think play is a really good way to define it.
Yeah, perhaps we should well rename it play rather than kink, because you're right back to the Freud days. It has got a bit of a negative connotation, hasn't it, And now we should just call it play play.
And there's a part of the king community that does, you know.
We we use the term play to kind of describe going into different scenarios, you know, to start a role play, for instance, to start exploring different parts of your senses. It's generally called play, which I think is a very great term because it kind of encompasses this idea of joy, right, this idea of imagination and different ways that we can stimulate sexual desire that we don't often talk about, or we definitely don't learn about when we have sex education and it.
Feels perhaps more accessible, like that something that we can all do and normalized and that it's okay and there's no shame around it.
M mmm hmm.
I think it's interesting because even I've got this book that I'm looking at on my bookshelf right now, and the book's called Kink, and it's a fantastic book, great kind of fictional collection of short stories.
But the book is black with big red writing.
And I think that when we hear that word kink, that's what we think of, right, we think Christian gray and black leather and dark dungeons and spikes in this kind of bit of a bit scary, and you know what, do you know what? Some people are definitely into that. But king can be as simple as playing with feathers in the bedroom, you know, particuling your partner, role playing as anything, role playing as your favorite fictional character, dressing
up as mister Darcy from Pride and Prejudice. That's my favorite kind of play. It encompasses such a range of things, right, that's.
A good one.
What are some fun I'm going to call them kink's slash plays from history that perhaps a popular amongst your followers or that you think are really interesting. Tell us some some.
Of the ones that I find really interesting from history, and the eighteenth century is my favorite area of history to study. But there was kind of an explosion of kink play across Europe during the eighteenth century.
And it became quite fashionable.
And it feels strange to say this now, but spanking became really fashionable. We were writing pamphlets and plays and brothels across London were offering spanking sessions so much so that you could literally and men could leave their workplace at lunchtime, go for a quick spank and come back and it was seen as right.
It's bizarre, now, can you imagine.
No, But there was this idea that playing right. Oh, it's so bizarre that spanking wasn't just something that was sexual.
But they had this.
Idea which is rooted in, you know, somewhat physical fact that spanking would help be productive to like your blood flow and you know, producing a healthy body, and it would make you more sexually and vigorous because you are pushing all the blood to your lower regions, and it would make you a better lover.
And so spanking was considered something.
That was actually quite healthy, especially for men to partake him.
And I think about that idea now because.
Spanking when we do studies is one of the most common forms. Is like any kind of kinky play in the bedroom, that's one of the most accessible things that when couples people are trying to start to explore, spanking comes to mind pretty quickly.
And I just love that.
Only you know, two hundred years ago we were popping off at lund time to explore the same.
Thing for a quick spank. What do you think as some of the most popular kinks today.
Most popular kinks that people play with today. I mean, I'm kind of incorporating some fetishes in here as well. Now, foot play is one of the most across all surveys. Exploring anything to do with feet is always number one or number two. Looking at other forms of kink playing, you know, we've mentioned spanking as one of the kind of immediate ways, almost like as a gateway into the kin.
Spanking is often quite high up there. Role play.
Role play is one of the most popular forms of kind of any kind of kink play, and I think it's really great to see it up there because what we don't talk about in a lot of our ways to kind of improve our life in.
The bedroom is exploring imagination.
Imagination is so productive to stimulating sexual pleasure, especially for women. Women often say that this is one of the aspects of the bedroom that.
Is most important to them. Right This idea of.
Fantasy and roleplay can be a really good way to help you share your inhibitions a little bit if you're wanting to explore, you know, maybe dynamics of dominance and submission in the bedroom. Being able to come in and dress up as a doctor, for instance, might help you kind of get out of yourself and become a character and explore an element of sexual play that otherwise you would feel too shy to.
Great advice as May, and well done on the doctor and talk to me.
Thank you for coming on Healthy.
Well, there's some DearS for some spicier sexual play tonight, and I will lable link to es May's last chat on extra healthy Ish. In the show notes, we talked more about kink as well anything else said to Body and soul dot com. Do are you for us and socials? Grab our print edition which is out in your local Sunday paper. Thanks again for listening and stay healthy