I can do bad. I welcome back to good Mom's Bad Choices. I'm Erica and I'm Mela. Happy Wednesday, Happy hump Day everyone.
We've already started the episode.
Before the episode started, I've already told our guest how I've had six wet dreams. Or Jamila shared with our guests, I've already had six wet dreams about Eminem, and our guest has since confirmed that Eminem looks like he might smell like he's been holding for forty eight hours waiting for his public defender to come defend him.
So in the movie Here we Are a mile, Yes, that's one thousand percent what he I think would smell like in the basement scene where he's doing the wrap up.
Yes, I don't know.
I'm not I don't know. I don't know why this keeps happening to me. But Eminem, call me, I'm here.
Your secrets are not safe. I would love for that really happens.
I'll tell you what I'd love to see. I'd love to see you do a peloton ad where you're riding next to him.
Well, I don't know why that sounds so freakyrotic. I was just like a bitching that, and it's like.
I can't even imagine Eminem working out.
I've said Eminem more than I've ever said his name in my entire lifetime today. Okay, I did have a crush on him too, back back in the day, and there's little options.
There's something there.
Anyway. How's your week, guys? How are you feeling today?
I'm feeling good. I'm feeling great.
I'm a little I smoked a little bit earlier and so I'm feeling relaxed. And my friend gave me these like rose essence drops that she like made me, and so I just put them under my tongue and they give me like I don't know, they make me feel like energized but positive.
So are they like a rose essence THC.
No, No, no, it's just some She's an herbalist and she I have. I suffer from anxiety, which is why I'm really happy you're here. Okay, help me, am I gonna make it worse, I hope not.
Wait, let's introduce our guests. You're hearing a voice. It's not ours. We have an amazing bad ass woman here. She's an author.
She's a lawyer, international best selling author.
Really an audible icon. I would say, I think you're an audible icon.
You are.
She has the most successful self published audible book.
Of all time.
It's true.
And you're a motivational speaker. You're a mother and hot smoker. She has white pants on with a patch on her ass, says bad Ass that she wore for us.
I did, and I also did not realize I was coming to the headquarters of beauty blenders. So after I put my foundation on with my hands, I subconsciously rubbed them down the front of my white pants. So I have a foundation streak like some loser right here.
Please get her beauty blender. I had one.
I just forgot to put it in my suitcase last.
Night, and I figure out here an extra one. It's so crazy because me and Eric are so fucking professional. Last time Mel was supposed to come here and wires got crossed and she was here and we were not, and we were in another meeting, and I was like, oh no, Eric, I like, I have to call her. I'm scared. Oh no. So I went outside.
I'm like, hello, I didn't help her at all.
I was like, she's gonna have to deal with Mel Robbins is outside of the office. I'm like, she don'na have to deal with that. I can't do I was. I was in the midst of like that day. I was like break, I like broke down and had like this crazy anxiety moment, and I was like, I can't help.
You, bitch.
I should figure it out.
And I thought for sure I was gonna get like your assistant. I was like perfect, like, hey, so we're not there. She's like, no, this is mel I'm.
Like, you did call. But then she got on the team and I said, give me that phone, right.
She got me, you did, she got me together, so fucking why. I was like, shit, I was like, I just got a coach. She's like, don't apologie. I stop apologizing. It's fine. Shit happens. I'm like, you're okay, you're right, I'm not sorry. I am sorry.
Sorry, No, do not say you're sorry.
Like your team needs to be on luck cause you're growing. I'm like, your motherfucking right, that's right.
So so you asked me at the beginning, come to the table with a mantra, and we're gonna talk why. Most mantras are bullshit, but one mantra I love is that I always say to myself, especially when the shit hits the fan, or especially when I hear the anxiety or I feel the anxiety. And for anxiety for me always starts in my ankles and it rolls up like a train through my body. And I always say to myself, this moment is preparing me for something amazing that hasn't
happened yet. This moment is preparing me for something amazing that hasn't happened yet. And so when I say that, it's a way to flip yourself out of anxiety and fear and self doubt and self rejection and self bashing and flip into this thing I call a high five attitude, which grounds you into faith and optimism and a little bit of confidence when you need. Because the fact of the matter is that was the perfect breakdown for you to have for me to be out here in La.
I don't live in La to be standing here, you know, drive forty five minutes, stand you know here, organize the day around coming here, you know, like, and I'm not saying this make you feel bad. I want you to understand that the universe gives you the size of a breakdown that you need in order to wake your ass up. And I'm telling you you have probably had other scheduling breakdowns. You have probably had other process breakdowns, but they weren't big enough to make you go, fuck, I'm going to
pay attention now. And so when you stand in those moments and go, this is preparing me for something amazing that hasn't happened yet. What that moment prepared you for is respecting the platform you're building and respecting yourselves so that you take this moment and say, oh, I actually have to level up.
In this moment.
I got to upgrade the systems around me. I got to upgrade the calendaring, I got to upgrade the you know, like whatever it is. And I can say that to you because I have fucked up so many times. And I think when you kind of get into something and you're in it because you really want to connect with people and you want to make an impact, and it
sort of just happens organically. Me personally, I was completely naive about what it meant to have a business and do have a brand where you're the face of it, what it means for your family, what it means in terms of liability, what it means in terms of how fast things start coming at you. And so if I could, as somebody who is probably I don't know, twenty five more fuck ups ahead of you, save you the heartache and the headache that I have caused myself, then I
would love to do that. And that's why I was literally like, don't you dare apologize? Like just get the lesson and like change the stuff. And the other reason why I want you to not apologize, like apologize when something happens to say like I really apologize or like whatever.
But what I want you to do instead, especially as women and especially as two women that are gonna build something monstrous, Okay, I want you to flip out of your vocabulary the word i'm sorry, and I want you to insert the word thank you, thank you, And I'll tell you why, Because in that moment you're like i'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, it becomes the focus goes on
you making the mistake, so you feel terrible. It also makes the person on the receiving end of the i'm sorry feel like I need to reassure you when instead, in those moments where you, you know, legitimately have a like breakdown, you didn't intentionally go fuck Mel Robbins. Let's just ghost her and let's put out let's put a video out front, and let's see what this bitch does.
That's not what happens. That's the core what she says about us, and see.
Exactly that's not what happened a punk. Yeah, literally, that's not what happened. So in you in those moments when you can go, hey, look we had a break down. Thank you for understanding, thank you for your patients. That's sorry, I got three kids, I know what it feels like.
Whatever, just to see it's French fries.
Just go at least one thing.
But literally, see there you go, thank you like she literally like when you go thank you for your patience, thank you for your understanding, thank you for your flexibility. You get it off the battering ram of hitting yourself and making yourself wrong and making somebody feel like they need to reassure you, and you step into your power and you go things happen. I appreciate you your flexibility, and I appreciate you. See what I'm saying, that's what are you betting from that?
I'm just I'm thinking because I I definitely saying I'm sorry. It's definitely something I've I do a lot, but I've also I've been trying to undo and I also encourage my friends to not apologize too, but never really thinking about how it makes the person that you're saying i'm sorry to then have to reassure you not only maybe you've inconvenienced them, but then you're also making them have
to reassure you that it's okay. You know, I never really thought about that part, because you think that you're doing them a service almost by saying I'm sorry, when really it's it's not.
It doesn't change whatever has been done well.
It makes them have to, like, like you said, reassure you, when like that's not their job either. Not only are you sorry for whatever it is you did, but now they're also having to reassure whatever choice is well.
And now, let me tell you the bigger thematic piece of this, because it's so conditioned into women and girls to say they're sorry. I was going to say that, is that when it becomes so casual that you are literally apologizing for ordering gluten free bread, right, I'm really sorry, I'm sorry that I'm a pain in the ass when I order. I'm sorry, but could I please have gluten free. With that that that you are taking away your right
to ta space. You are invalidating what you need. You are invalidating your right to request the things that support you. Like if you feel self conscious because you don't have a simple order, just say, hey, thank you so much. This is a really important thing to make sure that it's gluten free. Now you're acknowledging the waiter instead of bashing yourself for having a.
Need, and you're actually empowering the waiter to do the job.
Well, yes, because now they're like, wow, okay, I'm going to get this right.
Yeah, you know.
You can certainly apologize when you screw something up, but then flip it into a thank you to acknowledge the other person for giving you the grace to be human.
Right, yeah, I think sorry, it does take away giving yourself grace to be human. Like, no, I didn't do it on purpose. Yeah, that's so true. As women, we apologize all the time, all day long. I say it so so much that it just rolls off the tongue. I'm like, hi, I'm sorry. I don't know why I said that. I'm like scooting past people who are too close.
Sorry.
Sorry, no, bitch, back up. Yeah, you know, women were just like I think, we are so conditioned to not take up space to be seen but not heard almost you know, Yeah, it feels uncomfortable to do it. If even having the conversation, I'm like, damn, how am I gonna substitute thank you for I'm sorry? That's gonna be a lot of thank you.
Yeah, but it's so it's empowering because you literally feel like you're in control of everything. Right, thank you for waiting for me and shed if I'm sorry I'm late.
Thank you for being flexible with us, and thank you for coming back and blessing us with these gems right off the top. Like I told her, I was like, I'm excited for this interview now, I'm like, wow, she just I don't know what. She was like, stop disrespecting your business. That is what she told me. I was like, damn, I never heard it put it that way. I'm gonna stop, I swear to god. Guess what happened The next that week,
we had a fucking meeting. Everybody, like, you all, let's get on a call because she is getting she was slipping through the cracks, and it's our business. So we got to get it together well.
And by the way, as you continue to level up, you're going to have to do that again. And as you continue to level up, you're going to have to do that again. We're doing that right now with our own social media team because we've just been in the middle of this big book launch and now we need to post mortem because you know, I think a lot of times, especially in a space where you're building something new,
it's around something you're passionate about. You basically build the airplane as you're flying it.
You've never put it so good when you said that when you have a business that you've developed through passion, that you really didn't even realize that that's you were building it. And then you're like, oh, fuck, I'm in a business and there's people that need to be paid, and I there's all these moving parts that you really didn't expect. So you didn't like have a business plan and then implement the shit. It just happened because it
is a project of passion. And like, I'm so happy to be sitting down with you because obviously you're ahead of us in this and taking this advice means a lot. Like sometimes we talk about it and we know it it's true, but we're like, are we tripping ay terrible business people. I'm like, kind of, this wasn't supposed to be a business well, and that's.
The other thing. You're not going to be good at everything. And so one of the biggest breakthroughs for me, and this was one of the gifts of doing that daytime talk show that I was eventually fired from, but one of the gifts of it, again, this moment is preparing you for something amazing. That's happening is to all of a sudden step into a television show. One hundred and thirty five people on the team Sony Pictures Television. We're
filming at the CBS Broadcast Center. I had never been a part of a machine that big, one hundred and seventy five episodes taped in about five months flat. Wow, Like that is a machine. But what I realized is, Oh, I'm actually a really shitty CEO. Like no wonder. It's been painful and I've been a workaholic because I have been disrespecting my business and I have been trying to do everything and I have been so insecure that I have not been confident enough to hire people around me
that have more experience than me. And when I got into the right seat on that you know train that was moving a million miles an hour, I'm like, oh, I'm not supposed to be running the production. I'm supposed to empower people to create a production machine around me so I can do what I love doing and that will make it grow. And so that's what I also meant by stop disrespecting the business and yourselves. You two have a genius. You have a particular thing or things
that you're remarkable at. I am horrible at execution. I can walk into a meeting and ideas a fly off of me. I can talk like we're gonna make a million dollars something like all these ideas are gonna hit, and they will the second I walk out of the door. I'm not doing any of that. So if you don't start to understand what piece of this makes the money, what piece do I love doing, what's the piece that we actually need to hire, You're at that stage, and
that's the scariest stage in any business. Doesn't matter. There's a reason why my ask is to God.
It's like, we need you this week, not that week. This is the day. This is the day we need to hear all these messages. It's like I'm getting goosebumps, you know.
Oh, and I'm gonna give you one more. Everybody. The most incredible thing that you could ever do is say.
No, like exercise saying no, no.
No, no no. In business, oh okay, let me tell you why?
Okay?
You ready? So when it comes to negotiating, what happens when you start to get into talking deal terms for example, like this happened with Sony Pictures. They reached out to us and at this point we're on like Audible number three. I'm the most booked female speaker in the world. We've got half a million students and online classes. We are slaying it and doing it on terms, and they on our terms. And so they reach out to us and they say, we'd love to talk to you about a
daytime syndicated talk show. So I grew up in Western Michigan. When I would come home from school, my mom would have on Oprah Donahue Montel. I grew up with the old school talk shows on. It had always been a dream of mine to host my daytime, to host my own daytime talk show, be on TV. Like amazing. So even though I was like, I'm like a digital person like like you two are, when it came in, I was secretly like fuck, yeah, okay, yeah, oh my god, they want me. But I'm like, why would I do that?
Like why would I do a daytime syndicated talk show. And so we wrote back and said, no, no thanks, we got a lot going on, not interested. And they wrote back and said, wait, what, Yeah, you're not interested. Why aren't you interested? And I said, well, here's all the reason. I'll make more money than you'll pay me. I make more money doing what I do than you're ever gonna pay me. I own everything that I do. I don't want to change or become a caricature of
what I am. Like that like I want to And they wrote back and we're like, but would you still talk to us? And so like what happens is this in the deal? When you say no, there is this chemical thing that floods somebody's body, especially if it's a dude. The testosterone, the chase, the part of the brain that is attracted to something you can't have. It literally takes over and because you said no, you become more desirable and more attractive. This also works for dating everybody.
With sounds familiar.
Yes.
So the more that you say no, the more you become something that somebody wants to get.
Your value somehow raises because you're less accessible. Correct, They're like, oh, she's saying no, damn, Like maybe we should try harder raise our price, remove these dumb ass this dumb ass contractor we just proposed her. And because a lot of times, how many people on a daytime fucking talk show everybody, I wonder if I can be open, but like, how many people are saying no to shitty ask deals? People are like, oh, Sony pictures, I'm in and then fucked.
You know, all their shit that they've built is gone because they've given everything over to someone. And like, you know, we've obviously probably not to that to that standard yet, but like, of course we've had proposals and companies and production companies and they're like, but we'll own everything, Like, bitch, are you crazy? No?
Too many years we recently said notice, like a big opportunity, and we sat on it for a while.
Like should We were like like should we? We were trying to work it out.
Everything in me was like no, no, and then when it came down to it, we were like, no, well what Ultimately it was the ultimately the best decision that we've made. And I'm now like literally this week starting to see why I said no, yes.
And you know, even the thing we were talking about, I don't want to say what it was on a mic, so I don't know if you're talking about it publicly. You should consider.
Our book no no, okay, thing, You.
Should consider doing it yourself because then you have control over it before it becomes a thing, and then the bigger fish buy the thing you created versus letting them futs around with you know what you're doing right thing. So you know, I ultimately said yes because we were in La. I think I was in La for a speech, and so I'm like, well, i'll swind buy and hear what you have to say. And they're like, why did
you show up? And I said, well, I showed up to honor the dream that I had as a little girl. I want to find out, like, actually, what you're thinking and why you're interested. And what they said is, well, ever since Oprah left daytime, it's fucking crap. Well that's not the words they use. That's the word I use. It's celebrity promotion, it is hot, hot breaking news topics, or it is such fake conflict that it is in
service to nobody. And when I started to understand the demographic of a person who is still watching day time television, it aligned directly with the impact that I'm out to make in the world, which is to make life changing
concepts research science accessible to the everyday person. And when I realized that we could create a show potentially that could be a lifeline for folks that have been left behind by resources, that have been left behind, by funding, that have been left behind when it comes to access to therapy or when it comes access to personal development, I thought, this is something I'm going to go for and it was absolutely something that I was destined to do.
And then of course they found COVID and it was a dream job. I loved every single day. I loved working with that team. It was a dream come true. I felt like I was in for the first time of my life at the age of fifty one. I thought I was in the right place. And then they found COVID nineteen in the building on March tenth, and they walked into our studio and said, you have five minutes to evacuate shows, cancel.
You're fired.
That's it, We're done. And it was amazing, Like I first ran upstairs and grabbed everything that wasn't nailed down and stole everything I could for my dressing room, shut.
It all in sea fire me. Yeah, okay, we say give it all this shit.
Okay, grab every blaser get let's get a couch. Yes exactly.
If I could have grabbed thataker, I would have.
I'm like, oh yeah, take it all this shit. So I literally and as I was coming out of CBS Broadcast Center in New York City, they were evacuating sixty minutes and entertainment tonight and our office is surreal. And that was the backdrop for when this new book started. Was life punched me in the face and said, yeah, I don't think so, Mel, you don't have it all handled. And I think we all had that moment where we knew the pandemic was going to turn your life upside down.
Whether did you When was the moment for you where you're like, oh shit.
We were in New York and it was the first week of March, and we had kept hearing about it, but me and Eric are the type of bitches. I want to live in a bubble so it will pass because we're not watching the news because it's negative. Don't talk, don't bring that negativity here. But we were leaving New York and kept hearing about it. I went on a date in this guy. I was like, aren't you scared? I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? But when we were leaving, we went to an event
speaking event. Erica was speaking and this woman was like. We went out to reach her hand and she was like, I'm not shaking hands right now, and we were like, what the fuck is going on?
She wasn't wearing a mask because the mask thing happened, but it was being yeah, passed through handshakes at that point.
But then we went But then we went to the airport and everyone was wearing a mask, and I'm like, do you think this shit is about to get real? We're about to be in like a zombie apocalypse. She was like, no, no, no, it's fine, and then she got fucking like two days later, schools was you know how mom's knew school was shut there?
Yeah?
Yeah, the teacher was like she might not come back this week. I'm like for how long? But she's like, I don't know. I was like, oh, no, it's real. What do you mean, don't it's Wednesday? That was my my?
I agree, I mean it was. It's a crazy time.
But I mean, obviously, I think this time really allowed people like us and I think overall to kind of tap in, sit the fuck down, and figure out what now. And I'm so glad that this time you created this book that the high five habit, because I've been like skimming through it. I mean, I just got it. So I haven't read the whole thing.
That's okay, but I know all about.
But I'm just like wow, And I guess what really intrigued me so far about this too is kind of like the science behind it too that I never really realized when I was reading this section about you know, how NBA players and I'm an athlete too and like high fiving and how like it really does like transform the way you perform and the neurons in your brain.
And just I was like, wow, that's so amazing that this moment that she had in the mirror just happened to also be backed by science too, Like this storory alignment is crazy.
It's the story is honest to god crazy. You know. It's not like I sat down and was like, Okay, I got to write a book, got to have a five in it. You know, it's been almost five years. That's not what happened. Life punched me in the face, like I lost everything I had been working on. Because the fact is, the second that I got home, drove home to Boston, our kids now come home, two of them in college. Their college experiences imploded. They're having cascading
anxiety attacks and anger and grief. And the only one that seemed unfazed was our son, you know, who's fourteen, is like, I don't care. I don't have to go to school. This is amazing. I play video games all day and mom and dad are drinking starting at ten am. They're leaving me alone. And so I literally book contracts canceled and I need to return money I've already spent. There are NOPP loans or whatever the fuck they're called. So I didn't know how I was going to make payroll.
Every speech started to cancel, which was really how I made a living. And it gave me a flashback to two thousand and eight, when my husband were eight hundred thousand dollars in debt. I was unemployed. He had gone into the restaurant business with his best friend. The first one had done great. It was a little pizza joint. So we cashed out everything like complete morons and shoved it all into the business. And then the housing crisis hit and everything in that business was secured by our home.
We tapped the home equity line, we tapped the credit cards. There were leans on our house. I couldn't pay for groceries. That's when I invented the five second role. And I invented the five second role counting backwards five four, three two one to get my ass out of bed, because at that moment, the anxiety was pinning me to it like a gravity blanket. So I was now fifty one looking at the universe, going, are you fucking kidding me?
I've been after ten years of clawing my ass out of that hole and like helping our family and repaying this debt and helping all these people, and I'm like a relatively okay, decent person, like I this is what you're doing to me? Like I was so hissed. So for the first three weeks of the pandemic. I literally
did not change out of my pajamas. I started drinking and smoking weed at about ten o'clock in the morning, and then we would just literally turn on all of the different series with our kids and watch television all day. And then one morning in April, I woke up and I felt the weight of the world on my shoulders. And you don't even need the pandemic. Like this book has exploded. I'm talking to six days from the release
for the number one audiobook in the world. What We are number one in Canada, we are in the top ten on Amazon. It is cracking something open inside people because I think, especially after the past eighteen months, everybody is hurting, and everybody feels beaten down and low energy and is tired of the uncertainty and feels a little stuck or lost. And it's just like, when are we gonna like go back to a life that feels like the shoe's not about to drop yet again? Right?
Yeah.
I feel like there's been moments where like, oh, just when you're catching up, it's like I'm bringing back down. It's been feeling just like this since completely.
Yeah, And we are not designed to live with this level of sustained uncertainty. The reason why you feel more on edge, or you feel your anxiety is more easily triggered, or you feel like you cry more easily, or if you're like me, you feel by one thirty in the afternoon like you've just taken the SAT exam and you need a martini. Like it's just like I can't focus on anything. It's because your nervous system is permanently in fight or flight. Right now, we wear a mask. We
not wear a master. I wear a messing this spilling DRG. Are they going to school? They're not going to say what's happening? I don't fucking know. Give me the joint.
So I I for real, for real, And so you know, whether you're listening to us and you've just been broken up with or you didn't get the promotion, or you can't get yourself to fill out the application to go back to nursing school, or you listen to these two amazing ladies and you're like, I need to start that podcast and you're like, uh, Like, whatever it is that's pinning you to the bed and making you feel like you're overwhelmed by your life, I think it's a universal feeling.
And that's what I felt in April of twenty twenty, and so I used the five second rule five fourth three two one. I got out of bed. I made my bed. I always make my bed. That morning, I made my bed so I didn't climb back into it. I dragged myself to the bathroom and I'm standing there in my underwear and I catch a glimpse of my reflection and I literally think, oh my.
God, you look like hell.
And then the beatdown starts. And this is the dirty secret that no one's talking about, and that is every human being has an ugly, awful habit, and I want to just blow the doors wide open on it. Every human being either stands in front of the mirror in the morning and either picks apart all the things that they need to fix, or this is unbelievable how common this is. Can't even look at themselves in the mirror. Fifty percent of men and women cannot even look at
themselves in the mirror. Wow, And that's how we're starting our days. And it's so much a part of our lives you don't even realize it. And so here I am picking myself apart, which only makes me feel worse about myself. And if you had walked into the bathroom at that moment and you were like going through it, I would have been able to spin on a and lift you up, just like get it on the call, right, like, oh, I got you right. But when it comes to picking
yourself up, fuck that. I pile drive myself. We all do it. And I don't know what came over me, because I think you can tell I am not really a cheesy person, you know, like I'm not like somebody that would just invent some fluffy fucking thing to sell books, like that's just not my jam. But for whatever reason, standing there in my underwear, one boom hanging lower than the other, my gray hair coming in like saggy tits, saggy neck, like I'm a lot older than you, guys,
just wait what's coming. And so I literally, just as pathetic as it sounds, I'd never done this before. I raised my hand in a high five of the woman in the mirror because she looked like she.
Fucking needed I haven't tried this yet, fuck it.
Yeah, And it's not like lightning strike. It's not like the Heaven's open and the angel sang like it's not like, ah, that's not what happened. But I'll tell you what. From the very first one, like something shifted and I felt this bit of like energy come back, like fucking pull it again, like you're not dead, you have a house, get out there. It's not that bad, you know, Like I didn't even think that stuff. That was sort of the energy, but it was the second day. Wait to
hear this shit. The second day is when everything broke open. And I want to unpack this for you because I think you will really get this at a profound level. So I wake up again, same shit's going on, No idea how we're going to deal with this, financially overwhelmed, depleted, lost five or three two on them up, make the bed. I start walking to the bathroom, and all of a sudden, before I even get to the bathroom, I have this realization that I am feeling something I have never felt
in my entire adult life. And it was this. You know how when you're about to walk into a bar cafe and you're going to meet somebody really like really great friend you haven't seen in a while, how do you feel.
Tingly inside like a little butterflies?
Yeah, yeah, I felt that way about the idea of seeing myself. I am going to be fifty three in two days. I have never, at that point in my adult life had the experience of being excited to see me the human being. I've been excited to see an outfit or what my makeup looks like.
Literally was going to say that.
I was like, well, I've been excited, my makeup is done.
Yeah, it's like.
Such a shouting.
But to see yourself, no, I know. Yeah, when we were kids, we weren't like that. We saw Jansen kissing yourself, high five, trolling in the mirror, admiring yourself.
Look at me, look at me, mom, Mom.
Yes, yes, they see their essence. And that's the other thing is I started walking into the bathroom, I realized the profound nature of what was happening, and I realized for the first time, Holy shit, there are two people in the bathroom every morning. There's you and there's a woman in the mirror. And she has been waiting for you to wake the fuck up and see her and to see what she's trying, and that she needs you, and she's tired of you beating her down and picking
her apart. She needs your support, she needs your love like she needs you.
Wow, that is fucking profound.
You know what, As you're describing this my mind, I'm just thinking of a ray On Insecure pumping herself up in the mirror and show yeah, and I'm like, yeah, it's it is true.
There are two women in the room.
There are yeah, And.
We always forget to pump ourselves up. It's so easy to pump other people up. It's so people to mother your child, it's so easy to nurture other people and like it's okay, girl, But like we rarely do that to ourselves. You know, we rarely like it's okay, life goes on, You're going to be okay. We don't have those pep talks sometimes, Like I'll go all the way into Luna' school drop her off, and then someone looks at me and I'm like, what the fuck do I
look like the same thing? And then I'll look in the mirror and I'll I'm like, I didn't look in the mirror at all. And I have a huge mirror in my bedroom, Like you can't miss this shit. I don't know how I've bean I brush my teeth.
I don't know where I'm like, if you're thinking about everybody else.
It's sometimes like I may have actually glanced in the mirror, but I did not look at myself. I'm I'm thinking, I literally think, like did I not just did I see it? But not see it? Like you're really not acknowledging yourself. Your reflection is always there, but it's you thinking so much that you're not even processing and acknowledging yourself. And sometimes, like even standing in the mirror looking at yourself for a very long time can feel almost.
Awkward because it intimate too.
It's intimate you don't do it, and like even we don't even look at our friends or each other that often if someone's making eye contact with you back, we rarely even do that because it's uncomfortable almost, so like I can imagine how profound that was to be, Like, damn, people need to hear about this.
Yeah, well it didn't even hit then. So I had just read a piece of research from Harvard, and it must be amazing since it's from Harvard, right, But I'd read it the day before because I was trying to figure out how the fuck am I going to keep my team inspired? Like I'm in the gutter here, and so I read this piece of research just the day before that was if you spend less than a minute as a leader thinking about how you're going to show up today, it changes your focus, your productivity, and the
impact you make on people. And so, for whatever reason, like I think it was like the universe, it was divine. It popped into my mind and I did something I'd never done before. I looked at my reflection and I asked myself this question, how am I going to show up for her? What does she need for me? And I think on that day I was sort of like, bitch, stop like bitching about everything. I need you to actually have a little I need to be kinder to me.
I need to like like actually believe we're going to get through this, like stop with the death talk here and so I and then I just raised my hand and high five myself. And so I did this every morning for a couple of weeks. And then I literally posted one photo on my story. Had I known it was going to be this one in the book with the BedHead and the retainer in, I might have picked
a different morning. But I within literally if you turn to chapter two, it's that it's photo there, but within an hour, more than one hundred people around the world, all shapes, colors, sizes, religions, ages, genders up, like every started posting photos of themselves. I didn't even put any instructions down, and I thought, holy shit, maybe I'm not the only one who's feeling lost right now. And so I spent the last year researching this. The science is fucking crazy.
It's insane.
So let me unpack this for you. Because it's bananas banana.
I know, I was reading.
I mean, I'm sure it's even I didn't even get to read the whole thing, but I was like, oh my god.
Wow, here's the coolest part of all of this.
Oh my god.
The coolest part of all of this is that all of the programming for why this works is already in your brain and your nervous system because you have been high five in other people your whole life.
Kids, we just know, like we tell them to do it, like, and then they do it, and then they can't stop because it feel good.
Yes, We're just gonna aim all this shit back at you. It's the coolest thing. So when you high five somebody else, what are you actually communicating? When you go to hear you and I hi five. Oh wait, now see what happens? You do a shitty one. You gotta do it again. Yes, there you go. Oh, I gotta hit you too. So when you do that, what are you communicating to somebody?
Good job? Let's go.
Ye you got this, you got this.
That's right. It says I believe you, I love you, I see you. If somebody's attitude's going down, you hit them high five. It's like, pick yourself up. I still believe in you. All of that programming is in your subconscious mind and it is fused with the action of a high five. This is called neuerroobics. I did not know this when I stumbled into this. Neuroobics is the fastest way to create a new mindset, to create new
thinking patterns. And basically, when you marry a physical action with a different thought pattern, it plows a new neuropathway into your mind. So when you go to raise your hand to your reflection, you can stand in front of the mirror. And this is the best part. First of all, I don't want you to say or think anything when you do this. There is no mantra you need to have you can stand before yourself and go I'm fat, I'm worthless, I hate myself, I have an ugly face,
I am damaged. I will You can think all that shit that you've been thinking forever. When you go to raise your physical hand, your brain pulls all the programming from your subconscious mind because it knows what a high five is. It doesn't care if I'm high fiving either one of you or my own reflection. It'll shut that voice up because the action has programming. You've never high five somebody and thought you're a failure. I hate you,
I hope you lose. Ever, so it is neurologically impossible to beat yourself up while you're high fiving your own reflection. And we've had so many people now write to us and say, and a weird thing has happened, because energetically, your nervous system is hardwired for this. When you wave hello to somebody, you raise your hand. When you hug somebody, raise your hand, when you cross a finish line, you raise your hand. When you high five somebody, You raise
your hand when you do it to yourself. That kind of really corny, weird little what that you get. That's your nervous system wired for celebration. You're tapping into that. Also, whenever anybody else has ever high five to you, your brain drips dopamine. You get the same fucking thing when you do it to yourself.
M it's that validation, it's that happiness. Yes, yeah, that makes sense. I mean I think when I was reading that section too, and they were talking about like the children, yes to dip the study that they did with the kids, and basically that you know, the kids perform all the kids that were high fiving performed at a higher level.
That made sense to me because I felt like as a child, like I feel like action is so important and for some reason, when as we get older, like we kind of lose that part of us, like validating
each other in action. We just say a lot of things, and you know, we're told even even us, like we're told we tell our listeners, like you know, talk nice to yourself, like say thing like for me, like in therapy, one of the things that like my therapist helped me with because I had body issues, especially after I had my daughter, was like talking nice to my body and like it took a while though, because I didn't believe it for a while. It took me a while to
believe it. Eventually it did work, though, but it did take longer. And I was reading about like, you know, the issues that you have with certain mantras or affirmations is that like you don't actually believe them halfway.
Well, you experienced that, right, Yeah, So most people cannot stand in front of a mirror and look at themselves if for the last couple of years or decades they have hid in the back of every photo or they have gone ugh when they see themselves. They can't stand in front of mirror and go I love my stretch marks because neurologically, their brain has been programmed repeatedly to believe the opposite, and so repeating a mantra that you
don't actually believe makes you feel worse about yourself. And what I love about the high five is, let's talk a little bit about the two experiences that people have when they do this for the first time, because we've studied this too.
And what I.
Love about the high five is that the physical action alone does the programming. So you're not only tapping into the programming that's in there associated with a lifetime of receiving and giving high fives to other people. But you are also tapping into something called behavioral activation therapy, which is shorthand for act like the person you want to become.
So if you normally have a habit of self rejection in the mirror, picking yourself apart, which is self rejection, or not even looking yourself, which is self rejection, and your brain sees you high fiving your reflection, your brain goes, oh, we actually don't criticize that person. This is the person we cheer for. And as you keep repeating it, that picture of you, along with the dopamine and the jolt of energy, starts to seear in your mind and stay
with you. And so it's an action that starts to prove to you that you actually do deserve support, You do deserve encouragement because every morning you're giving yourself that physical gesture, that means it.
So for the woman who doesn't, who is trying to learn to love, their first stretch marks like, is that when she does that high five? Does she say what?
She say?
Nothing?
No, And so let me tell you what happens. So there's only two reactions to doing this. I'm so geeked out about this, Like you, you cannot believe the testimonials that are coming in. Like we had a woman that wrote to us who is in a domestic violent shelter, extraordinary trauma from the age of four to thirteen. Then she escapes a wildly abusive four year relationship. She's lost everything,
she's in a domestic violent shelter. She said, by simply doing the high five in the mirror and something else that we'll talk about called high five in your heart, which is an incredible thing for anxiety that in five days she knows she has a lifetime of healing. She has a long road that she needs to build to create her life again. But the high five in the mirror is teaching her that no matter what, she still
has herself. And so what you're gonna experience is you're either gonna experience when the first time you go to do this, is you're gonna experience either a very positive experience. So you'll either laugh out loud that's the dopamine, or
you'll weep in a very positive way. And it's a very positive emotional release because it's this joining in partnership with the human being you see in the mirror, your soul, your spirit, and this release is finally like, finally, motherfucker, you finally woke on, you finally see me, You're finally kind to me, and it's powerful. So it's really common to cry, But the more likely experience is negative because what most people do is they stand before the mirror
and they resist it. And this is really sad, and let me unpack what's happening. So there are three reasons why people resist high fiving themselves, and it has to do with the two human beings, you and the human being in the mirror. Everybody brings their entire past into the bathroom every morning subconsciously, and it stands between you
and the human being in the mirror. So if you are somebody like a lot of us, myself included, who has experienced childhood trauma, if you've been sexually abused, which I have as a young kid, if you have experienced discrimination, if you've experienced poverty, abandonment, violence, microaggressions, negative, like anything in the plethora of experiences that a human being could experience that have been done to you that you're not
responsible for. A ton of people drag it into the bathroom and it makes them see a person that is unlovable, unworthy, or damaged. And what I'm here to say is, if you've survived that shit and you're still breathing, you not only deserve a high five, you fucking need one to heal because you're saying I see you, I know what you've been through, and I still love you, and I still got you, and I still encourage you. It's compassion,
it's support, it's a healing gesture. The second reason why people resist this is because.
The other part of the past that we drag in is all the shit we did that we don't like, which I got a lot of personally. The bad choices, oh yeah, more than bad choice, the lifestyle I was living, the cheating, the drinking, the addiction, the lying, the squandering of opportunity, the hurting people, the hurting myself, all of the shit you wish you could take back, stuff that I'd forgive the two of you for, somebody would forgive
mel Robbins for. But when you stand in the mirror in the morning, you stand in judgment of yourself, and you refuse to give yourself the forgiveness that you need to move on and to grow. The high five doesn't wipe that shit away. The high five is I know.
And I still love you, and I'm still going to be here for you, and I'm still going to support you. And it's a way to repair your self esteem and your self worth by treating yourself with the encouragement and the support you still deserve. And then the third reason why people resist it is because we have been so trained to believe, since we are very little, that you're only worthy of celebration if you're winning, when you get the good grade, when the team scores, when you're doing good,
everybody cheers for you. And so you start to become an adult where you're like, well, I didn't get to the gym today, So do I still high five myself? But I don't weigh what I want to weigh? Do I still high five myself, but I didn't do the thing that I said I would do. Do I still yes, Yes, motherfucker, you still high five yourself every fucking morning. And the reason why is because you need support and encouragement to do the work to actually change your life.
So fucking true, It's true. If you focus on the negative, it will literally consume you. I've been there, like, bitch, you're talking so much shit, Like in my head, I'm having these conversations like a crazy person, like we're going to get nowhere for just in this space, you literally cannot do better and get to the next part. If you're just dwelling on what you haven't done and what you're what you're not good at, or what you don't have. It literally does not work that way.
No, it doesn't.
But it's so easy to criticize ourselves. It's so easy to be like you, like you did good, but what's next? Like that was cool? Oh you got a book? Deal, cool, what's next?
Well, I'll tell you why we've married, or at least I did. I'm married, whether or not I was worthy of love with what I was doing. And when you realize you are worthy of love because you're breathing, everything changes. So I think about our birthdays, right, what are we actually celebrating when you celebrate your birthday?
Your birth your existence? Correct solely your existence, not your existence, and not your existence. And your book was the bomb on audible, not your existence? And you have a hot body. It's just purely solely you.
You're here, Yeah, you're still here.
Yeah, you're here.
We forget that existing is the thing, you know, like whomever you believe in, spirit, God, ancestors, whatever the mystics lay, they brought you here and under these exact circumstances. And I think like a part of the cool thing about having this conversation with you is that you birth this amazing book and this amazing movement out of this dark place that you were in. But it's really the your purpose.
You know, it's your passion. Because it's your purpose, it became easy, it got to this height of success because it was what you were supposed to the message you were supposed to tell the world. Yeah, and I think, you know, people underestimate that little thing you know that is planted, that seed, that's planet. That's like damn, maybe someone else is experiencing this because I needed to hear this for a shift to happen, like even for me
and Erica. Like you're saying, like saying no to big brands and big court you know, people who come in. It's like when you know your purpose and your passion is fucking important, nobody can come in and put any dollar price on it and say give it to me.
You know, I love that you're tying it back to that and let me tell you why. Because if you start your day by picking yourself apart and then thinking, fuck, I didn't do this, and then I got to do that, and you're kind of in this negative space and some big brand rolls in, you'll be like, oh, thank god, Okay. If you can start every day validating yourself, going I see you, I'm playing a big game. I got you, and you demonstrate it, that's the important part. You don't
have to do the self talk. All you have to do is demonstrate it. Let's talk common sense. You're you know, you were mentioning the NBA study and we're going to unpack that cause I think it's important for people to understand. If you think about your favorite sports teams, they don't start a big game by going, well, you really sucked in the last one, and so I'm not throwing the ball to you, and oh shit, like we're gonna lose and why are we even bothering and oh my god,
you look like hell right now? Fuck this, That's not how they start. They literally start by setting an intention about how they're gonna show up, and then they steal it with a high five and they send themselves into the game. I want you to send yourself into the game of life every fucking day, just knowing that, just like that, I.
Just have this vision of me.
My daughter had our kids had a soccer game this weekend and in the car, I was like hyping my daughter up, and I was like, I was like, what are we gonna do?
Try it? What are we gonna do? Win? What are we gonna do? Quit?
And then I like fifth pumped her yeah, and she was so pumped. And then this this weekend I was reading your book and I was like, oh, I did that for her. I do that for her all the time. I have all sorts of fucking weird ass handshakes with my kid.
When the fuck do I high five myself never.
Never, ever, It's so fucking important. And she killed it. She did so great as an adult. And I say this all the time. My damn life is difficult. I say like a lot. I'm like, how the fuck did I become an adult? Every day I take my kid to school and I get her to there on time, I'm like, yes, I kill on this shit. She cans there.
My seven fifty five bitch has done it. But like it's because but it's because it's it feels like if I feel strange, you guys, I still feel like I can't believe this is I'm an adult, I'm someone's keeper. I'm responsible for you and myself.
You know.
Sometimes I get scared. I'm like, are we gonna eat? Yes, they're gonna eat. Bitch, do we have somewhere to live? We have somewhere to live, check check, like you know, but like those are just the basic necessities of life. But like that shit is hard. People don't have support, like when you're when you're like the looming, like responsibilities of existing are so heavy. Sometimes we forget that every
day is a win, every day is a gift. When we just said that this morning, like okay, like you have to wake up and it's crazy, and when you're saying when you're in the bed and you have to you had to five four three to you. That's something I use all the time because sometimes I just am sleepy and I don't know why I didn't do shit. I'm just tired and I can't. Probably it's depression and anxiety. But if I can't. Even since I was a kid, I've used like I haveing a countdown and bitch, you
gotta get up. We got to do this stuff. You gotta do it or else you you can you'll die here. Well that's empowering, but like that five four three two one, make dinner boop. You got to go do it. But like waking up every morning, because it's crazy. If you observe yourself as a human being, some days you wake up great and ready to go, and some days you're just not great. You have an attitude. Shit doesn't feel good, and you have to remind yourself. I have to remind
myself like, what are you panicking about? Internally? What are you not feeling good about?
What is it?
What if the fuck you're doing good? Everyone's okay, But it's just like you're we're so constantly in survival mode that we forget to hype ourselves up. We forget to be like, Okay, you're in a good, sweet space because for one at least, I know my purpose in this life, and like good moms, I feel like, okay, I know no matter what, this is my space. I'm supposed to be empowering. I'm supposed to change minds. But if I can just a little bit of change in someone's thought process,
I've done my job. But like keeping that consistent energy every day is practice, Yeah, it really is. And like unlearning the trauma, acknowledging the childhood shit and then saying, oh damn, I'm fucking thirty three and I'm still suffering because I haven't done the work to just say it's okay, move forward from it.
Yeah, you know what A couple things about that that I want to just unpack and really highlight for people. And it's this I feel as though part of the problem is none of us give ourselves any credit for what we're actually doing. Like, honestly, life is hard. You got out of bed high five, you made your bed high five, you walk the dog high five, You got those kids on the bossard to school high fucking five. Like you are not even recognizing all the things you're
actually doing. And when you start to focus on all the things that you're actually doing, you start to feel a little bit of wind at your back. You start to build some small wins. You start to then feel more emboldened that if I can, I got out of bed, I got myself to work, I got these kids where they need to be, I remember to eat lunch. I
got a couple of emails off. When you start to feel that now you are encouraging yourself to continue forward and to also start doing some of the bigger stuffies.
Researchers looked at NBA teams and they could predict who were going to be the winning I came say winning ast teams at the end of a season based on one habit during the preseason, and it was the number of pats on the back and fist bumps and high fives that a team gives each other in the preseason that determines whether or not they're successful in the end. And the same is true about the teams that perform the worst. They have the least number of pats on
the back and high fives and fist bumps. And why that matters is because these small gestures build partners, they build trust, they build momentum forward. And if you've ever had a halftime speech, or you've ever had a coach like just kind of rail into you and then high five you to shake your attitude back, you know exactly what I'm talking about. And so this is super important because I also think the average person does not feel
like every day is a gift. The average person has an experience of feeling invisible, of feeling disrespected, of feeling stuck, of feeling lost, and I'm here to tell you part of the reason why it's hard to get out of that feeling is because you're waiting for some outside force to come along and validate you or say that you're worth it, some person you're going to date, or somebody's gonna like follow you or come up with like You've
got to bring that shit back in house. You've got to learn how to validate yourself for where you are, even if it's not where you want to be, You're still fucking here.
Because what happens we expect validation or put all of our you know, expecting validation from someone is what happens when they disrespect you. What happens when they don't tell you you're beautiful, you're great. Then you're believing you're putting all of your inside and.
Your back where you started in the hands of somebody else. You're exactly back where you started. When you have the person in the room that knows you the best, knows you the most, just been through everything you've been through, because that person is you, and now's your look. She's looking at you and you're like, oh shit, you know all my shit.
Oh you got me, you got me, of course you know.
And then you add that high five, you add that action to it, and it just I feel like I understand, I get it, Like why it feels empowering, Why it gets you not only counting backwards out of bed, but walking out of the door to like do what you gotta fucking.
Do because you're gonna face all kinds of shit all day long. And what's wonderful is if you start your day demonstrating that you like yourself. Even if somebody else doesn't like you or disrespects you, it does not change the fact that you like yourself and you respect yourself. They cannot take that away from you.
I hug myself. I love that Sometimes I hug myself. I'm like something like because the contact, you know, like just for a moment, you know, we hug each other, and that feels good. We need to connect, but sometimes just like give me my Maybe that could be your next book, the five second hug.
Well, I want to teach you this high five in your heart, especially since you said the thing about anxiety.
That's I wasn't ask you next. I was like, please you.
We can't forget about the high fiving heart because I need to know because I have, yeah, anxieties and something that I've struggled with I think on and off, but I didn't know what anxiety, didn't have a word for it for a long time. I think like the word anxiety has become I think it's always existed, right, but like it's it's finally people understand, like what the.
Feeling is, what is it for you?
Well, for me, like you said, your starts at the bottom of your your feet and go works its way up. For me, it always starts right in my throat, and I start to feel like I almost it feels like I noticed that I haven't been breathing, and a lot of it my anxiety starts to build because I'm holding
my breath. I hold my breath all the time, and I have to breathing as a real practice for me, just normal breathing, Like Okay, I've just realized I just haven't really been breathing all day, And like I know people do this, like we have to do this to live, but like I'm pretty sure I'm an expert, Like I could hold my breath for absurdly long amounts of time.
Do you remember when you first experienced it.
It's childhood trauma for sure.
My father, like you know me feeling like anxious about you know him, like me having to go to his house because I didn't.
Really know him.
And that was when it first started. When I'd go there and I'd be like, this is different. I don't know how to act here. This isn't my home and you're a stranger.
And it would happen.
He'd pick me up every like a few months, so I would notice like that's when it would happen.
And then it would get nervous.
And now obviously it's trickled into so many different areas of my life.
Well, just any moment where you feel uncertain, uncertain, that's it. That's it. So I'm going to teach you something incredible. Do you do you experience anxiety too?
I do? I do. I think I do hold my breath like I'll forget to breathe. I clench my jaw. I do that, my jaw gets my body gets really tight. I noticed that. I'm like, you know, I'm like, oh, what the fuck is going on? Why am I doing that? But I'll just even be typing like clench the fuck up. My body is so tense.
And do you remember like when you first started experiencing that.
Mmm, probably I remember like high school that I can't remember, just like tightening it, like my body getting really tense, just like drama with my parents, things that were uncomfortable for me that I don't want to talk about that I felt triggered by.
Just yeah, got it? Well, I asked that because it's important to kind of understand triggers to get control of it. I'm going to teach you a science back technique that I call high fiving your heart. It's a lifesaver and it also helps with trauma. So the way that I think about anxiety is anxiety as alarm system in your body, and it has a really important purpose. So let's say that we're driving down the car or driving down the car. See the joints are kicking in. We're driving down the
highway and we're just talking up a storm. We're playing eminem it's fucking awesome. So we are literally driving down the highway. It's an incredible time, and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, this freaking semi truck like fucking pulls into our lane. What you feel in that moment as you swerve out of the way and your armpits sweat, and your throat tents and your body's shoulders go up and your ankles have the hot flash go. That's anxiety.
It's an alarm system that's saying, wake the fuck up, bitch, Like that's what it's saying. Like that's what it is. But what happens in your body when the semi truck pulls away and you realize you're safe.
What happens releases.
Correct because anxiety in that moment makes sense intellectually. What becomes a problem in life is when you feel that alarm response in your body and you're just making a cup of coffee in your kitchen. And there's also a connection between worrying, which sounds an alarm in your mind, because if you allow your mind to dwell too long in the what if this and what if that? And what if the other fucking thing and what, your body
starts to notice that your mind is alarmed. So the body then starts to signal the alarm to And so you got to really watch your thoughts. And we can talk about this for the next time I come back I'll come and train you in like the hand to fist combat with your own mind. But for now, what I want to teach you is how to master your nervous system. Because this fucking shit is cool. Okay. So here's what we're gonna do. You're gonna take your hands
and you're gonna put them on your heart. That's called height. Like right, I put them right in the center. I don't put it on like my boob or anything. I like, put it right on the center and press in the center and in the center of your chest. What you're gonna feel is you're gonna feel the vaguus nerve. This is a fucking treasure in your body. Okay. This is like a range rover in your system, and you just
want the lottery. It goes from your ass, through every major organ, through your vocal cords, and up to the top of your head. This is your on off switch between fight or flight and being calm and cool. I already feel better, right, So when you put your hands here, we're going to take a deep breath. Now. I want you to repeat these three sentences after me. I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm safe, I'm safe, I'm safe.
I'm loved, I'm loved.
What do you feel peace?
I feel a little at peace.
I feel a lot more at peace because even talking about my anxiety gives me anxiety. So I started to feel anxious when I was talking to you about it. And at that, literally the moment I put both my hands here, I felt.
Like, Okay, I feel like this is something's happening.
And actually, our friend Bruna, she had told me something like I had mentioned that whenever she starts to feel anxious, she has to do this, but she didn't have these things to say. But it feels wow. Really, guys, if you're listening, do this shit right now?
Yeah, you want to press here because here's the thing. And there are mornings when you know shit was going down, and I was just I would wake up and say this fifty three times. And it's a way to flip the switch between what's called your sympathetic which is your fight or flight nervous system, and your parasympathetic, which is your grounded I call it your cool, calm nervous system.
This is your resting nervous system. This is where your power is when you're in your body, when you're grounded and so if you like, you can do it anytime a day. Teach it to your kids. It's free, it uses science. Repeat that I'm okay, I'm safe, I'm loved.
The I'm safe might make you cry a little bit, because part of the trigger for so many of us that have childhood trauma is this sort of hard wiring in your nervous system that you're not safe when things are uncertain, because many of us weren't, and so your body remembers this. And so when you have this free tool, and I recommend five four three two one, get up, get out of that bed, because nothing good is going to happen with you laying there feeling anxious, thinking, overthinking, worrying,
staring at the ceiling your phone. Once you're up, you can sit on the edge of the bed, or you can stand up, high five your heart until you feel yourself coming back into your body. Then you're going to walk into the bathroom, and as you're brush, I want you to right after you brush your teeth, because I want you to use science to remember to do this.
We're going to stack the habit of brushing your teeth because hopefully you're fucking brushing your mouth and getting that nasty ass breath out, so you're not like spreading that shit everywhere. Now, let's hie five you to get that nasty ass shit out of your mind, body and spirit. Like this could be generational shit that's going to end with you. I was talking with I don't know if you guys know Jason Wilson, Mister Jason Wilson. He's incredible.
He's in Detroit. I'm a Michigan gal, so anybody from Michigan is a family to me. He runs a martial arts what do they called a dojo in Detroit, and his whole mission is about emotional fitness for boys and men. And he and I are great friends. And we were talking the other day. His books are Cry like a Man and Battle Cry, and he literally said, and he's a real soft spoken guy, and he's got a big white beard, beautiful bald heads. It now now you know me.
I'm here, I'm helping all these boys the emotionally fit. Now I want to raise my hand to my mirror and my dojo, you know, ma'am. I realized it was so hard because my father never did that for me. My father wasn't in my life. And he started to
talk about how it really struck him deep. Even as self aware, as spiritual, as impactful as his work is, it hadn't occurred to him that he's always focused on what's next, He's never stopping to see himself, to celebrate himself every step of the way, because nobody did it for him, And so you know, I want you to do that for yourself. Look at the human being in the mirror. Create a trust in partnership with yourself. You're gonna that's the one person you're going to go through life with.
That's your bestie.
Oh my god, I gonna make me cry over here. I'm like, I wasn't told enough as a child either.
None of us were, because none of our parents were right. They were only doing you know, I'm not justifying anything that they did when I seek to understand what happened and kind of understanding that most of our parents didn't get any of their emotional needs met either. That's why they didn't know how to meet ours. That doesn't that does not excuse the fact that they didn't give you what you needed as a kid, but it certainly helps me.
It helps explain it so that I can change how I treat myself how I can take ownership of the next fifty years of my life. I can break free of the habits and the patterns that are not even mine. They're generational patterns. And it's going to fucking stop with me.
And you and your children.
I mean, how do your children take and you know, all of your tools. I mean, because you know, kids were like so resistant of our parents. I know, even my mom, Like my mom created this an amazing tool, right, and she wanted me to use it, and I was like, I'm good with my hands, Mom.
I'm cool.
Fast forward twenty years later. You know, no one's using their hands except mel Robbins when she.
Forgets her I forgot to pack, and I'm sorry, but I'm curious to know, like how your kids, you know, react to this amazing you know, education, vice, lifestyle, just you know.
A gigantic eye roll at sometimes, but then they use it when they need it. I know they're listening because they call me and they call their dad when the shit is hitting the fan, and they are in this book. So there's in chapter four. As I was writing this book, I got a text from one of my daughters that said, why do I always feel like the ugliest girl at the bar. Now something that breaks everybody's heart. But it is the perfect example of the fat act that it
doesn't matter what I say to her. I could tell her you're what do you mean you're not? Look at that ho over there, she's fucking hideous just the second of.
Take a picture of the.
Yeah, seriously, like I you could say all that, it wouldn't mean anything. I could. I could pump her up like I have. You're loyal, you're amazing, you're smart, you're hard working, you're beautiful, you're this, you're that, you're the other thing. Can't even hear it because she doesn't believe it. That's why the high five habit is so important because it starts with you. Your relationship with yourself is everything.
You can think you're the ugliest person at the bar and then high five yourself, and that beat down silences because you still see a human being that you're going to encourage and support. And when you come from that place and you start an act of the defiant, it's like an act of defiant. So, yeah, fuck off, watch me. I'm not going to listen to this shit anymore from my own head. Like so you have to do the work yourself, because nobody can change your self doubt and
your negative mindset and your self rejection. But you no one else can do this for.
You, right.
I think it's difficult to deal with self doubt and self rejection without giving yourself the grace. You know, we forget that, Like we can criticize ourselves all day and night when nobody's fucking perfect, But if you don't love on yourself equally as much, that shit's never going to come through. Just like if I'm talking to you all day like, you're not shit, You're not this book it's all right, I read it. It's okay, it's a five
out of ten, you know. Like, but if I tell you, oh, it's good, you know, like if I'm always telling you talking shit to you, and then I tell you something you're not, you may not believe that.
Well, it's interesting you say that because my daughters busted me as I was writing this book. They allowed me to share a bunch of like personal stories of stuff they were struggling with and something from our son. Not great parenting moments. By the way, these are not the things that are that I'm proud to write about. But it's interesting because my daughter, Candle, the one that's I here in California studying, said well, you know why we
trash ourselves? And I'm like no, She's like, well, because you fucking trash yourself all the time. I'm like, what are you talking about. She's like, every time we take a picture you and we show it to you, You're like, do I really look like that? And Mom, we think you're beautiful, So if you don't believe it, why would we think we're beautiful? If we think you are and you don't believe it, And I'm like, fuck, there's three more years of therapy.
Right, fuck, must write another books.
Shit, well that is my brand of self help. Either fall in a hole or dig one myself and then I need a ladder.
Oh my god, that's literally what all this businesses, everything that we do. We're like, Okay, what do we need to work on. Let's make it a challenge. What do we need to work Let's go on, we need healing, let's plan a retreat.
Don't have sex you don't want we should stop having sex.
Tell everyone's going to stop having sex with us? Like I feel that, I really feel that.
What did you two get from this conversation a lot, like what's the most important thing you think you at?
I do need to be better at looking at the person in the mirror, being kinder to that person, acknowledging why maybe I'm not kind, or acknowledging the things that are good. I'm getting emotional. I'm such a cancer.
What are you getting emotional about?
I don't know. I think that I do need to work on being nicer to myself. It's like, internally, why does that scare you? I don't know. I don't even know why I'm crying.
I'll tell you why, because this shit hits deep. Like the interesting thing about this book is that it's the stupidest thing on its face.
I know, I will be honest. I opened the book, I was like, high five have it? High five yourself?
What total?
Everybody has that reaction because it's so pervasive to beat the shit out of yourself, and for a lot of us, being tough is a survival mechanism because we think if we get vulnerable or cry or you know, feel the pain, that that's gonna be even worse. Like I think it's hard to actually think about how much I fucked up in my life. That's why it was hard to forgive myself.
I wouldn't actually go there because it was too painful to think about for just how long I hated myself and I was in survival mode because I didn't know any better. I didn't know how my childhood trauma was impacting me. And it's painful when you slow down and you see the person in the mirror that's hurting, that needs you. It's true, but it's also beautiful.
Thank you.
I was thinking this week, I've been needing my dad a lot this week because he's been helping me with my daughter. But all he does is talk shit. You guys, he is the number one shit talking dad of the fucking universe. I'm like, can you shut the fuck up? Literally told him that's how we talk to each other. It's not healthy. He lily, He like had a key to my house because he did something. He came in at one o'clock in the morning. Me and my daughter
are asleep. He's like, where's my backpack? First one, I'll alarmed as fuck, I'm deserving a truder. He's like, it's to me. I'm I guess up here. He's literally talking shit to me as he's getting it. You parked in a straight where are the keys? You? What the fuck would you park like that? I was just like, I gonna even respond, but I had dawned on me this week. I'm like, I'm so used to being talked to this way. I'm so used to being criticized.
So is he.
And it's true. That's how we talk to each other. That's how my family talks to each other. And it's not healthy, but it's normal.
And it's almost like.
If we get sensitive, it's weird, like don't you know what I mean? And it's it's probably my inner voice is that criticism, And that's a crazy, weird realization.
Yeah, your dad is your inner voice. Like that voice, the way that he talks is the way you talk to yourself, and so it's not even yours. And here's the enormous opportunity. You're strong enough to withstand the eye rolls and the oh for God's sakes from your Fani family to be the one that actually shifts the way that everybody shows up for each other. It would be transformational for you to go, hey, I am tired of
this life is hard enough. I actually need some love from you, dad, and I love you, I need you, but I can't have you come over if you're gonna ship talk me. I need something else from you.
It's so crazy to watch your parents your dynamic with him, because they love each other so much.
I'm sure they do.
He shows up for her like he like, you know, I mean, I know that you guys have your ship, but like he's a great grandfather, Like he shows up, but he does he talks shit the whole fucking time. But he's like he's like, has this happy demeanor as he does it, so it's like it's weird. And then they're talking shit. I'm listening to the talk shit the other day yesterday I was like, you guys, I was like, you guys only get one daughter and one and one's grandfather.
I'm like, you guys need to stop talking shit to each other. Yeah, you guys are talking shit. He's literally to be like help doing everything.
He's can you give us an example? What does he say?
He was just like, oh god, God, I wish my daughter would just get her shit together, like she's just you know, everything's everywhere, and like what was he saying? He was just saying, like, yeah, he did say he even acknowledged that. He's like, and the way you parked
in front of the house, it was fucking crazy. And she was like, well, Dad, you're at the fucking house at one in the morning, and Luna's there too, and they're both lunas to his her daughter, so she's hearing them talk the shit and it's so normal for them. It's not normal for me because that's not how me and my family communicate whatever. We have our own fucked up communication. But that's a whole other episode. But it's more passive aggressive, so it's like secret nice. They're just
like straight, straight to the point. And I was like, this is hilarious. It was funny, but it's not funny. But it was funny because I was like, they love each other so much, they're literally doing things for one another as they're talking shit to each other.
Well, it's sort of like if you're raised in a household that speaks English, you learn English.
True.
It's where whatever the vibe, the language, the content, the tone, whether it's passive aggressive, whether it's a silent treatment, whether it's shit talk. And maybe another way that you could do this instead of like drawing a boundary is make a commitment to yourself and the game that you're going to play when you send yourself into the game of life with the high five is today, No matter what my father says, I'm not ship talking to him.
Oh, do drive maybe say thank you Dad?
Thank you.
I know you're just worried about me. I love you too, and watch the.
Time, which is also super hard for me to be to do that, to be nice to him. Well, sometimes it's hard for me to give words affirmation because that's not what I'm used to hearing, Like I can think about nice things and I'm kind. You know I'm kind. I'll do things for you.
Well, do you know that you have the right to sit your father down and say I do not want my daughter to talk like this, and starting today, I need your help changing the way we treat each other. Dad, I love you. I do not want to go to the grave talking to each other like this. You show up physically, but emotionally verbally it's brutal. Can we work on this together for her?
I'm so glad this is recorded. This is for me to you from health.
Because trust me, he probably doesn't hear it. He doesn't know how much it hurts you. I don't know all back, right.
It's how they communicate. I think that. I think that's so simply put. But I feel like that's all that really would. I feel like your dad would be receptive to that. I think he would. He's going to talk shit a little bit because it's just in his nature to talk shit, and it takes a second to do the unlearning. And maybe he needs to high five himself too.
Well.
That comes from like hardness and pain. I can't only imagine how he was talked to in his life that he does it so casually with you. And you've only ever known this, which is why you're accepting it. But you're no longer a child in his house. You're a grown ass woman in her own house.
Right.
You're building a fucking empire. And you get to say how somebody talks to you. Now you get to say what relationship you would like to build with your dad. Now you get to say where this habit is just a pattern ends in terms of your family, and you get to say what is acceptable around your daughter. That's powerful, not easy, not easy at all, not easy at all, but you can do it and high fiving yourself and affirming that you're worth. It is literally going to help you do it.
I believe that, and I would say the things that something that I've learned today two is that I just feel like being able to master my neurosystem I think is something that I'm excited to try and do because it is out of fucking control.
Oh, when you need to not only for your mental health.
It is out of control.
Would you call it neuonamics idea?
Oh, neuerobic syno is that thing. It's the nervous system thing. And the nervous system responds with a high five job heart you're talking about, yeah, yeah, And then your mind will get rewired with the neuerobic activity of high fiving yourself in the mirror. And you don't have to say anything. Just let all the science in your body and the programming that's already there work for you. That's all that
you need to do. The other reason why it is important and this was new to me, so I didn't know this, But when it makes sense when your nervous system is on edge, your prefrontal cortex, the part of your brain that you're going to use to build this empire and to change your relationship with your father for the better. It doesn't work properly because your nervous system
overrides it. Like if somebody all if the fire alarm started going off in here for real and we smelled like real smoke, not just joint smoke, we wouldn't be able to solve a math problem because the alarm system in your body would take over. We've been and you've been on high alert for eighteen months or longer. When you think about the last administration, right and the bullshit that you've had to deal with. We've all seen unfolding on television, the fight for racial justice. All of it
just boom boom boom at people. Your nervous system is on edge. Everybody's is. You're going to go build a business, You're going to heal this relationship and transform it. You need this part of your brain to be able to focus and think clearly. That's also why getting your nervous system. I like the word you use, though it was like nero.
I don't know, You're like nerve, neuros, zeros.
Yes, what's the word that is?
I love that.
Yeah, You're like, when you get that in order you will be able to sit in a businessman like nope, because you will be in your body and in your power.
I'm going to use it because I've been struggling, and I'm going to also empower my friend to you know, with us together, Like do these high fives?
Yeah, We're gonna going to see its high fiving in every major event ever.
Absolutely, I think we need a high five. Our teamwore David. I'm high fiving you.
High never not doing a session without a high five.
I mean, I've learned a lot.
I've learned a lot about like, yeah, how do how to you know, empower the people around me as a business woman, as a mother, as a friend, and you know how to control my crazy nurse neuros nervous system.
And I'm just so grateful that you're here with us and that we connected and that you that thank you for coming back, thank you for inviting me, and yeah, wow.
Wow, this is much more than I expected. I feel like I'm like in therapy with mal right now. Wow, Well you know I'm not a license therapist.
Every thousands and thousands of dollars worth of THERAPYT had.
A question, what car did we pull?
Well, it's funny you may ask. I was wondering we forgot to do. I let it ride. I'm like, maybe it'll make more sense at the end. The car be pulled was the seven of brooms, which is the seven of wands generally, and it means after the success of six of wands, you are now in an inviable position in our being challenged by others who want to take your place. You worked hard to get to where you are, but some people covet what you have and are prepared
to fight for it. While it is flattering that they strive for your success, it also makes for tense and competitive environment because you need to protect what you earned and must continually prove yourself. It is a sad fact of life, but the more visibility you have as a leader in your field and the bigger your audience, the more likely it is that you will need to grapple with this kind of pressure. Others see your success and will either challenge your point of view or want to
take it down. The seven of wants may appear when you hold a contentious point of view or wish to voice your opinion in a public forum. Be ready to support your argument and back yourself. Stand firm and your conviction of what you believe and why so that others do not topple you from your mountain of self belief. Sometimes this threat is opposition may catch you by surprise and you'll feel inadequately inadequately prepared.
No, we won't because we're high fiving bitch, prepared for such a battle. I'm prepared. Okay, yes, but you know what. I'm safe, I'm powerful.
But it's talking about someone in this translation, it's talking about maybe someone outside of you. But I think bigased on this conversation. I think the biggest lesson is that
our biggest problem, our biggest opponent is often ourselves. And if you are not prepared to face yourself and face your dad and a shit talking or you know, your business or whatever parts of yourself that you're avoiding because you're drinking, you're getting blacked out drunk, or maybe you're having sex, or you're just sleeping and not wanting to get the fuck up out the bed or cleaning, it's really the part that needs to be tackled, which is in fact the person in the mirror.
Correct all comes back to them, it does.
This is good.
I want to ask you something has nothing to do with any of these things.
Sure, do you have a whory horr?
We forgot to tell you because I don't think we were thinking about this, but it's a highly horrorsh story. Something you've done though was like very horrish. Maybe it could be with your husband, maybe before you're married.
You mean, like the time that I was basically a port whoreor for a guy that was a Navy seal.
Who stories what is.
Like a groupie of the port No, meaning like you know, guys that are in the military have a different girlfriend in every city.
Oh, so you're his what city you're.
Well, I met him in Boston, but the real amazing hookup was in Chicago.
Well, can you tell us quickly about the amazing hookup in Chicago?
Sure? What do you want to know?
I know what was so amazing about it? Was it like something something like you know what it was?
I was in law school at the time and he was like fifteen years older than me. So it was the first time I had had sex with a fucking man. Like until that point, it had been boys and I was either learning with them or instructing them. This was like feeling like I was a fucking rag doll. Yeah, my god, yes.
Your sub he was domining you.
I mean, I don't know what he was doing, but it was amazing, Like I had never experienced that with a fifteen to a twenty two year old man before, and this was a guy who I think was thirty five at the time. I can't believe I don't have a venereal disease.
From Maybe he wasn't as much as a port horror as you thought. Maybe maybe not, maybe not, maybe not, maybe with those moves, probably yeah.
And then I remember having that feeling. I don't even know how to describe it because a couple months later. You know, of course, we didn't have cell phones back then, so it's not like he could kind of ghost meet
because you couldn't really reach anybody. But I remember being out at a restaurant in Boston and watching him come into a restaurant with somebody else, and that moment where you are admitting to yourself that you actually already had the fantasy in your mind that you were send around and they were going to come back and marry you and you are the one, and then he's clearly in
a relationship with somebody or you know. It was kind of one of those moments you're like, I basically want to die right now.
Okay, I've been thinking about you for months.
Yes, exactly, clearly you haven't been.
We've all had those moments.
Yes, well, mel, thank you again for coming on the show. Can you tell our listeners where they can get the high five fat Habit and you.
Can buy it anywhere you want. You can buy it anywhere you want. You can. It's coming out in twenty three languages and counting by the end of the year.
Hopefully graduate fucking relation. Thank you. That's a big shit girl.
Thank you.
But they're killing it.
Thank you. You know what, when you work your ass off and you are out to make an impact, it all does work out. It may not work out on the timeline that you want, but when you stay true to what you want to do in the world, when you keep telling yourself that this moment is pairing you for something amazing that's coming, and you stay true, it doesn't all ever unfold the way that you think it will, but it does. What's meant for you finds you period.
And so one of the things that I wanted to say about this is that I am so committed because even with the five second rule, which has changed the lives of millions of people. We know of one hundred and eleven people who have stopped themselves from committing suicide by using five four three two one. It is helping people reprogram triggers associated with PTSD. Pediatricians use it to reframe worries for kids you know who have anxiety. It's extraordinary.
This book is only out now five days. I think it's going to be a thousand times more impactful in people's lives than even the five second Rule, because the five second rule will help you push through shit. This goes down to the fucking core of who you are and how you feel about yourself, and when you change how you see yourself and how you treat yourself, it changes your whole life. And so I am so committed
to sharing these tools. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for having me on to introduce this stuff to your audience. But I want everyone to know you don't need to buy the book. I am reading the book cover to cover for free every single day online. We have started on social media. I read two or three pages a day. I then coach people because I want people who can't afford the book
or find it to be able to use it. And we also created something called the High five Challenge, which is you just go to high five Challenge dot com. There's eighty five thousand people in it right now from ninety one countries. It is free. You do not have to buy the book to be in it. It's not even on social media. I got an app to give everybody access for free, because you know there's nothing. You know, Facebook groups are pain in the ass because you see
the ads. So this is you go to High five Challenge dot com just the number five and you can jump in it any time you're hearing this, and for five days, we will coach you. We will give you journaling prompts, and you'll have this massive global community of people who are all high fiving themselves, uploading photos during each other on to get you started. Because for me, this is so much bigger, just like it's so much bigger for the two of you. Like, it's not about
the book deal, it's not really about the podcast. It's about something you're awakening in people who are listening. It's about something you're discovering about yourself as you're sharing your journey in life and everything that you're fucking up and that you're learning. I so want these tools out in the world because they're free. They fucking work. I don't care where you live, what language you speak, how old
you are, what you do. Everybody needs to know how to look in the mirror and support the person they see staring back at them. So thank you for having me on and buy the book if you can. If you can't, just fucking share this shit everything. If you liked this podcast, you share this shit. Yeah, everybody who needs to hear it.
Please, and everybody does.
Yeah, it's not a question. Let's just get it to them. Thank you so much. S mel I feel like I have a new best friend.
Absolutely, and you have my cell phones, so you better text me.
Can I put me on the pretext holding Okay, I'm sorry. I was keep here for myself. I'm gonna put us on the group text. I We're supposed to have a drink for your birthday, but I do have shit to do. Happy birthday, drink with you, Okay. I'm so honored that you get to come on our show and share with us. You guys. She is shout out to Mark and Europa Agency. She's on our literary agency with us. We're so blessed to be like represented by the same agency. I'm like
so much pressure. This book better to be fucking good.
Oh hell, yes, and count me on your launch team. Yes when it comes out.
Please, Wow, I'm so excited. You have a hell of an email list over there. Anyway, I hope everyone heard this and this resonated. I know it did. Please pick up the high five habit five the number, and don't forget to rate and review us because it matters to us.
Give them fucking five stars. Don't you dare listen to their shit and give them anything.
Lest don't be a take her.
You know this was free, by the way, ran them