Hi, this is Tony Ruggiero here and you're listening to my tour coach podcast tort coach podcast come from my stories, the interviews, my Roundtable discussions, the day-to-day interaction with the people that I teach in my journey in the game of golf. Whether it's tour players that I teach or tour players that have fired me or heck it's other teachers that I think the world of and respect or its mental coaches, performance coaches or hey?
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Tell you all the time on this podcast by I love to bring on people who I've met through my coaching and teaching and traveled around on tour and different stuff like that. And what this is one of the best guys I've ever had the opportunity to work with his punting stuff.
I've never seen anybody get on the ground and watch it work - and this is what made me think about him when he posted something about this gift day, but one of the great teachers out there, he's got Talk some stuff about reading dreams and reading us. It's got a fantastic tap out there but Ralph Bauer Ralph, how the heck are you? And you have laid on the ground and watch more but it hit that any human being I've ever seen Tony.
I appreciate that. You know like I said I've been laid down and putting your hands on the PGA tour for last 15 years that you know anywhere else I can and kind of getting a bird's eye view. Sounds crazy but I feel like I've dedicated my entire adult life to helping people make more punch and And you know, I say we want to go to that nice drive but you'll feel great, making a porter walk, the next teeth, 100%, how did you get to be in? So, involved in putty, okay.
Like over time I've kind of just, it didn't start that way, but I mean, I kind of became more. I became more of a full swing guy, and a coach. How did you get have all this happen? So, you know, if your self, but I voted to her for a long time and, you know, just trying to help people play better golf. Right. And, you know, if you think about a sports psych, no reason to call this for psych because they're not in their 5-iron. Well, right.
But they are going to call this board, say, you know, if they're not fighting while, right? So I've always just try to do the most the best I could to help people you know scores well as possible and for me you know that's basically just helping with your fighting interesting. If she now let's talk about I'd like to pick your brain on this. So when you go to work with a good player to require and their your want to help them putt
better. Or what are the first things that you look for and like where is your go-to to start with somebody as a putter? Get approved there. But if I got one kind of main thing, I'd like to get some of you genuinely interested in making more pots, which, you know, most people are. I feel like the big thing for them would be if they miss a pot rather than defaulting to the fact they think they pushed or pulled it if they could default to the fact that they misread it, right?
So let's say you've got You know, ten footer, right to left, you missed it on the low side, you know, he has the proper speed, but a misses on the low side, 99% of the population is going to think they pulled it. Well, you know, for the most part, what happened is they under edit. Now, they think they pulled this pot now, they gotta, you know, a roach laughter on the next hole right now, they're trying to think about, you know, their ball position, change their
mechanics. Probably trying to push it out more. Yeah. Then they're a mess on the other side. So, They're just in there in this, you know, Paradigm of, you know, thinking they pushed or pulled the, you know, they're there to go around the entire whole course, they could have pushed this. Why I pulled down when I push this right? Push that one when the reality is, you know, most if pots with proper speed are from Miss
Reed's, really? Yeah. Like, it's now is that across even recreational golfers? Is that even recreational golfers? Like, you know, somebody that, you know, a 15-8 handicapper. So I think he's handicapped First, let's go back to our players, the overwhelming majority of their pot was in one degree like over 90% of their hats are going to be started within one degree of their start line. That means your 10-footer should go in, right? But the 10-foot May profess on the PGA tour, if 42%.
So the difference there really is greener eating. Now, if you take a 50 handicap Orthodox to be able to start 90% of their butts, you know, within one degree, but it's way over 50%. Yeah, and then but if there is sucking a paradigm where the gets the first hole they guess it a read. All their can be correct.
They miss it low or high. They think they pushed or pulled it they go to the next hole you know, it's no wonder people don't get better at finding what made me think of do in this with you. Amongst other that I've been weak talk to items or a couple times about doing this, but there's an old great old teacher in Atlanta, who was a big influence on me calmness. And I remember Time.
I asked if something about getting, you know, putty teacher and he said, he said, it goes back to as far as through this far, how hard could it be right? You know. And to me how that kind of goes to descend like like, you know, I think that and I've always said that, like, compared to the other aspects of the game. Like it's the one place that
like a 15 handicapper. Could be the closest to of one of your tour players because it doesn't really take much strength or speed to be able to do it right. Like you've only got to take it back as far as dou X bar. Like so to me that goes kind of what you say. And if they can learn to read greens better they can still get us started on their intended lines over 50%. They got to be able to make more putts 100%. So you know, he's right. The paint.
Strokes pretty is pretty simple right and people make it super complicated, it's not that hard. They say, only goes back, you know, less than a foot for the most part and through less than, but right, and you Mechanics in the PGA Tour. I mean, they're all over the place, guys. You know, Klaus you got cross-handed, you know, you got all kinds of different Cutters, right? And I feel like the part that's missing is reading the greens better, right? Let's talk about those grits.
Do you have a preference in those or do you see? I mean in this, you know especially with all the good players in the great players you work with and I've been around you working with one and like do you have a preference? If a person came to you like an idiot, you know? They're like, wow. Have. I don't even know how the hell. I would rip it anymore. Is there one? You go to more than others or does it totally not matter to you at all? I think it's important to keep your shoulders Square.
So whatever whatever grip is going to make that, you know, during comfortable for you that that's a good grip for you. I feel like I call it the engine of our stroke website. Engine of our stroke is going to be getting your shoulders square and then having a your shoulders open and close, you know, on a mirror image of each other. So, okay. Grips. You have that's going to accommodate data or allow for you to have a square shoulder Square shoulders at address, right?
That's going to be the group that job that's going to be for you. Okay, I love that. All right, so now let's go into more. So I and you know Ralph you we've known each other a while. One of the reasons I love doing these things just like I did. The radio is I will get the opportunity to pick the brains of people that are way smarter than me. Right? And you know.
So some of this is for me the like, but we I felt like with, you know, golfers like you Chuck, it helped them, their speed better, they would read greens better. Like to me Debbie, is that accurate like to me, these folks that don't, you know, they don't know how to read them and they don't, they don't read them very well, but they don't hit them the same speeds, all they don't even have a grasp and how hard they're trying to get it to make, but is that pretty
accurate? Yeah, that's that's pretty accurate like, it's amazing. You know, you'll take somebody who Steve's off and you'll say, well, let's take it. And roll the ball, just with your hand you know like your bowling. Let's roll it. And they'll roll a 15-footer 15 feet path of like well you know maybe they would need to work on that a little bit to get your golf ball, right? But I will say that a lot of
times. Let's go back this scenario where you got this right to left hand flutter, the earlier, Lieutenant footer you under read it which you know, is the average tour players going to under read a right to left about 15 percent. Like if it's 10 inch break, they'll see about a half inches, but so they've got this pot, the under read it. We kind of know we've under read it and those are the ones we tend to hit hard.
So those that we Hammer past, the whole are also ones that we tend to under read, we kind of instinctively know it and we hit it hard trying to make up. Up for that, you know. So I feel like if we read it properly, you know, our app and our system is designed for basically 12 inches past the hole on a, you know, in every pot. And I think that kind of cool to, to, to quantify that. Hey, like that's where it should be. It should be 12 inches past, right?
You know, that they had a chance to keep a so it's okay, that is large, you know? If they barely gets the whole that it's okay, they want her. No. Right, so I feel like if we read it properly, we get so many good targets. Hey, If we have default message that you're going to Al's and his past right there, they'll they'll get that much better at their speed control very
quickly. I'm going to go back to some other stuff later but I like it. So I so much you think that or you know or our we want to say that but like the majority of tour players under read putts is what you found. Yeah. So I tested now that we've got actual data on how much upon actually breaks right with with her app, I tested 12 tour players which is a decent sample size, you know, 12 pieces, who are players be decent sample size on left to writers and then right to laughter's right on
left to writers. They were seeing about 70% of the break, right? So if you know, if it's a two foot brake, you know, there are seeing you know, 18 19 inches of it so they're going to be missing this that pot Low, by by 6 inches on the right laughter. It's going to be a little better. It's going to be 15 percent now those All 12, those people were right-handed players, right? So why is it that? Why do putter, why? And I agree with you, because it's exactly the same thing.
I give, I stood out there and I'm thinking as you're talking about my, to our players, guys, I've worked with, like, I agree 1000% with the specially under reading for a right-handed player left to right. And that's where I see a lot of what you talked about a minute ago, whereas they're over it and they know that plain enough breaks, so they try to firm it in and make it in three feet by or You know, they'll say hey Ralph is a 12 inch by 12 inch brake.
I know it's 18 they pull it and it goes in and there. I see I told you I'm like yeah but you you know you're if you're hope you you go on the golf course hoping to misread them enough with a terrible stroke that they go in, right? I'd rather have guys, you know, read it properly, you know, have a good stroke and have going that way. I feel like that'd be easier way to go sleep at night, but yeah, I mean that clay and to make a bad stroke.
You get lucky Make, it's probably not good plan, right? I can't tell. Probably not going out there a couple times and hope to worked out. But why do why do you think player so dramatically under read? Like, if you're a right-handed player, the left to right? Is there any reasoning behind that or is that just the way it is? I think most right-handed players are better right-to-left putts, right? And I feel like growing up most
most people practice. What they're good at and it's the only growing up, you know, they had a lot more right-to-left putts and they're just better reading it. Keep the, I said, they just study. And if they said take 48 years to become a world-class screen reader, we've got a system now Tony. Yeah, which I bleed trial and error takes a long time, you
know, like, oh, yeah, for sure. You know, imagine if magic me and you're trying to build a rocket or trial and error, send them one up and blows up. We'd start all over again and be it take a while, right? But So now we've got a system where people can learn to read green very, very well at a tour player level in a couple weeks, right?
So, I mean, you know, we live in an instant society, and I feel like if I said summer, hey, John spend eight years, doing something, or doing spend two weeks doing it, you know, for the most part, we get the answer with the, you know, with the two weeks leave of people play for a living. If you said, hey, I got the single make you great reader, but it's go take a leak supposed to be like, I'll just Match against its of the hell. Yeah, let's go take eight years, right? Not a week.
Yeah. Now the guys on tumor though, and, you know, ladies and hi, you know, they've already put most of those eight years in, but that being said, when we put our app down on a putting green against a PGA Tour player, the app is undefeated, right? So, you know, we'll, we'll have them read it already with the app and then we'll get, you know, the Perfect putter out and roll some balls down the trough. And, you know, we're undefeated make sense.
I mean, how can human I compete with, you know, technology? Yeah. So how did you let us start with that? So I've seen you users, I read all of your stuff that comes out about it. What led you to create this app, and how did you figure about having a mean it Ralph, I know you're smart. But how the hell do you figure this out? So, you know, I guess, you know, not Not to get too political here on you but you know, I'm Canadian and we had all these
logs that, you know? I mean so we had all these lockdowns up here and you know I had all these theories on on green reading with charts and you know levels and I had theories on. I feel like nobody was a dressing up and downhill component like people were trying to address, you know, right to left left to right. Anyways, so then I was giving a lesson to a friend of mine is that, you know, an engineer and He's like, Ralph green reading Camp is as simple as like. Yeah.
That's it's not that hard, and he's like, hey, we should turn this into an app, you know, we have some time on our hands and, you know, so basically what we're doing is we're using the you know the internal chronometer like the 360 level in the phone, you know, to measure the ground, right? We have all the physics dialed in and you know, it's out where it's going to break and then Tony. I'm not sure how much you spent with this.
So it tells us where it's going to break and then we've got ways to win. You off the app so that your, you know, having to guess yourself you'll make an educated guess and then go ahead and do it, you know, yourself and have had, you know, I've I had a clinic I was doing and I had a 30 handicap lady, nice lady, you know what she went through the whole thing and she came up with this pot and she said, Ralph is 5 inches. I knew it was too.
And I think I've, it was two and a half and she's just not getting it, but we had to test her. So we rolled it and she was right and I was wrong. You don't? She'd spent an hour with it and hate to admit it, but she know she read that but there and I did after an hour of working with the system. So, you know, it's it's pretty neat to be able to have.
I always felt bad when I had a student who, you know, want just wanted to play better on the weekend and what had one have some chance of reading the greens properly and I would have no way of of helping them do that. I had a few things I tried, but it was basically, you know, I'm guessing. So now it's kind of cool to me. God for me, we can give to people and, you know, I've had tremendous, like, I started giving it to a certain width to
our players first, right? Like, you know, vendors coach told me, he used it for hours first, they got it and, you know, I've got a bunch of tour players using it as at the Masters this year, I have player hug me, said Ralph wouldn't be here if it wasn't for your app, right? But then it's a lot funner or work just as fun, you know, having people say around like, you know, putting fun for me now. Right.
And again if I could see one like and what kind of my main point and kind of I'm a point is if we could hit a putt like we were playing the 3rd hole at are you know home course. We get a part of the third hole and misses on the lower high side. We she's assumed we misread that and then we'll get better for the next hole if we assume we pushed or pulled it. Now, we're in a downward spiral of thinking, our mechanics are no good, right?
No. I like so explain how the Yo, that given away all your secret to everything. This is great for and here's why I thought you would be a great. Yes, one I think the information is fantastic and it can help any golfer, but for whatever reason we have lots of teachers golf instructors and listen to this podcast.
And I think that for both groups of people, this is fantastic information because you talked about there's a lot of people out there trying to help folks make more pus at the club level or they're developing teachers or whatever and this app can help them. So Take us through kind of how you can use it and also how about Rambo sometimes like I mean if you have like any people that you would say these are great hunters, use it and where they reading them the same every
time as the app. I mean if you have people where they were just great Putters and you put them on in like they did basically exactly what the app said. I've had more of the opposite were okay, like I go to a Tour event and a player with the hell I want to. I want to test myself. Can see have be like? No, it's Wednesday. Like I don't want you to, you know, think you're a bad putter. Lets you know, let's wait till next week and do it on a Monday, right?
But if you insist you know I had a player you know he read a pot 12 inches outside, right? Edge of a cash reward. A look at that again like they know that if I think it is like I did my whole routine and it was you know, it was I think it was 32 inches, right? And I was like wow, like that's just the way I do it. I'm not good at reading greens. Like like I had a, how do young lady last year who, you know, Junior, golfer, you know, good, good player right?
With a lesser writer, she had a 20-footer, she read it at one inch outside left Edge, it was 20 inches outside the left Edge, right? And then you know, got her the app got her practice screen reading. I worked on now summer. No. Since then she's she's one akane amateur. She made the You have two new girls need to cut us, Junior, Amateur, and made the cut it if PJ or LPGA Tour of it, right?
And and then I went to tester, you know, a year later on a very similar pot, you know, it was actually 18 inches and she gets in 17 inches. So it's a graph, you know, golf lot easier when, you know, you know where to aim your putter, right? So, you know, and if we can, at least have a system now to work on that and to, you know, continue to get better. Sure, at that. Like, if you think about green, I've always liked Greenery, is
very important. And I've worked with some guys like Matt Hughes and his kind of Peace. Walker are very, very, very good readers, right? Like, you know, and I think he was maybe 10th or 11th this year in Strokes gained on tour and, you know, very good Greenery directors had 14 years and he was a great green reader, you know? But it'd be like semi staying behind us, you know, beside a quad guessing the spin rate with your eyes, as opposed to seeing the numbers.
Like, you just not to give accurate All right. Yeah it's been fun you know and and what I think about people enjoying their round of golf. If you're playing 18, holes and continue to think you pushed or pulled all your pots, it's not doing any free confidence, right? Yeah, you know, whereas if you think hey I under read that you know that must have been a two percent slope and I thought it was a one point five. Then that's not going to hurt
your confidence. At least your you got something in your memory bank to help you for the next time out. Yeah, now I love it. And I like to me the ways that it can be integrated into practice where you know, I like you did with that girl, you talked about we're like you could measure them and make it use it and then you can show them that over time. I think any time you could show somebody over time that they're getting better.
That the work is validated is like it's a great tool for you, you know? Yeah. But Tony, you've done a good job, you know of you and your coaching of using technology to prove to a player that they're good, right? Like that's one of the great things about technology is like, I don't know if I'm doing this right here. Like well, I mean here's a number they don't lie and you're very doing this.
Well, you know, it's hard for the person not to feel energized and confident with, with their game. If you can prove to them that it's rather than, you know, Tony ralphing hey, where you don't worry you, don't you them better, you know, which is part of it. But boy, it's it's nice to be able to show them the number to look at is clearly better. I agree.
I think one of the best. I think one of the main ways I use technology isn't as much for diagnosis but to like prove one that they're better than that anger and to prove that what they're working on is the right thing and that is the balls getting better. They're doing more of or less, or whatever it is that you're asking to do and being able to validate the plan that you put in front of them as they go
along. I think that's a, I think that having that I don't know that everybody thinks of technology in that former fashion but like to me that's one of the best ways you could use it is to help people. People see that they're getting better, because one of the real frustrating things is people put a bunch of work in and they're like, so am I getting any better and, you know, you got to be able to show. Yeah, for sure.
And, you know, it's funny. So, you know, we have the tool, you know, I've had it in my pocket option for longer than anybody else. Because, you know, we had a in, you know, it with a prototype and all that kind of stuff, you know. But it's fun to see how the other coaches say, hey, like, texting me and saying, hey Ralph, here's what I'm using it for McCluskey.
Good idea, right? Like just like, Some people use that for site for different reasons, you know, every coach can use a little different, you know, some people like to use this little bit different. But, you know, it's a great way to, you know, if green readings important. You know, we weren't doing a very good job of having people practice that, you know, or so, this has been a lot of fun. So, to me, I've always thinking about, you know, how can I use
this with my students? I'm big on putting practice plans together for a specially like, you know, Ralph, I've got some nice college players. Up and come and juniors that are really talented and I feel like sometimes they go think they're working on their game but like there's just not a lot of direction, right? And they think that hitting balls all day and then just going to hit the bunch of pots. Chips has his real practice and I try to structure it for him.
So my initial thoughts as we're talking is like we you can put in a practice plan, I dropped practice plans with ball counts for players and that you could you could put in there where they hit X number of putts each day. Using the app where they read it and they go through and then you can then you could have them go through and do X number of putts without it and see if they get better.
You know, like yeah you could be, this could be a useful part of a person's practice plan and they're structured practice. Yeah, absolutely. And I kind of have some bread and butter drills that are in the app that that I like that one is basically just a circle drill, right? So I'll give them to a circle drill, put the ax down. It'll give me information and then Then they do another Circle
drill. And there's this, there's a feature called height or read that will still give you the slope of the ground, but it won't give you the answer. So you have to guess and then it'll give you the answer. So the first trip around the loop, I like to give them the answer. The second trip around the loop, you know, go to a slightly different position to like basically the other side of the T if you know what I mean.
So like about a foot away and then, you know, have it'll basically wean you off the Right. And then you know, then had some random punch and you know, do the same thing. I hit some random spots where you're giving you information. I always want to give people information first because I don't want them to feel bad about their party or their green rating, right? So if we give the information first, then they can think in
their head. Yeah. I would have had that or they would have or not is another story and then we start taking away from them once they become a little bit more proficient. I also find two or three in Reading you know it comes and goes like We could have our green reading completely dialed in. You know, we take a few days off, right? Where are used to seeing the ball roll again?
You know, we have to have a little refresher course every now and again on how much balls actually break on the greens. It's kind of like you have to calibrate it each time after you taking a break. Do you think like I calibrate your eyes and your brain wants to let you take its time off? Yeah, calibrates. Perfect word. Yeah, like you know you take some time off or I've had let's say arrange. The greens are a lot slower.
Like wow, look how much these actually breaking right and then, you know, we can you complete, you can tell exactly how much you're breaking on or you go to places, you know, we've all gone to a place, you know, that our greens are super fast. Processor were used to and you know, it's nice to be able to calibrate real quickly on the putting green, you know, in 5-10 minutes how much those pots were going to be breaking on that new green speed. Last question. Okay, this is good.
What the heck? How did you get started? Getting down on the ground to watch buds. And laying behind the putter. I remember, that's the first time I ever saw, you never walk it up with you working with Lucas. And I was like, what the hell is this guy doing on the ground and, and what from all of those times laying on the ground watching? Plus, what's the biggest thing you've learned?
So I started I play myself, McCain amateur and I was struggling with my alignment and I had my caddy lay behind me and was telling me, you know, where I've lined up and we did that for we did that and I start a course record next day, so it kind of, you know, stuck with That, hey, you know what? Let's maybe there's something to this alignment. So, you know, and then when I got into teaching, I was like, well, I'm you worked worked for me.
I might as well help, you know, my students with that. And the biggest thing I noticed the biggest thing I learned from watching. Yes, so many pots with with from tour players is kind of what I said they typically start the ball where they think like what where they're where they're lined up. They're very, very good at starting is there and most Miss Potts are Reached, right? So I before we had the app in the proof to show players, I've laid behind them, and then it's I've pulled them.
Like know, you didn't pull that that that broke more than we thought. Let's aim another 2 inches. Don't the right and they would even know that you would use to the right and go in, right? So and if they'd argue with me I said okay I got a pretty good view down here and you know you know and I that did that again you know always ended the argument pretty quick but you know I think I'll feel a lot
more fun. And people make a lot more punch if they practice their green reading and you know, I'm really quick, a quick sales pitch here. You know, we have a two week free trial in the app. It's in the App Store. It's called to read things money and it literally is helping people all over the world, you know, I the feedback I get some believable so to or read is how you get the app to be that.
I think it's great and I'm going to pick your brain off the air on some ways to use it more with my players in my Elite. Lead students stuff like that, but I think it's awesome. And I just wanted to pick your brain on that. I always enjoy the opportunity to hang out with you and when I run into you and I mean, over the years, I've learned a lot from being around you on the same team, and you always got great Insight. So thanks for taking time and
this is awesome stuff. And the cool thing I think is sometimes stuff comes out, you're like, well, this be really good for a good player, but maybe not for, you know, 1580 ever. But this is good for anybody to be at mean, this can benefit. Anybody is Doesn't take straight speed. So forth. This could help anybody's game. Tony, thank you very much and I will jealousy and coming back from the keys. So travel safe and we'll talk soon, buddy.
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