Have you ever seen someone with a broomstick putter and thought is that actually any easier? Well, today's guest has an answer. His name is David Orr, he is one of the best teachers around. He specializes in putting to work with some of the top players like Justin Rose, Hunter Mahan, and now I runs the Flat Stick Academy, a great resource
to learn everything putting. I've always enjoyed talking to David over the years because man, does he have some good stories, some good concepts and good principles. And today we're going to learn a few two things. But one, his thoughts on the long part of the broomstick, like what does he think about it as a teacher?
And then what I really enjoyed is kind of his taxonomy of putting, of like the different styles of putting you should try on your journey of maybe conventional is not for you. So yeah, we are in the middle of our alternative putting series. We've had some great episodes before this. Make sure to go back and listen to those. And we've got some good ones coming. I'm excited to get into today's conversation. Let's kick it off with what's your experience with broomstick
and armlock? Like what? Who have you worked with with? What's the process you've taken them through? Like let's start start there. Yeah, so typically people come to me with, you know, when they come to broomstick or or lead our block or any alternative stroke, right. You know, I haven't worked with too many tour players as far as like broomstick, but I have lead arm lock, couple players or whatever.
Alex Norton comes to mind. He has an interesting, it's more like a a wrist lock and then a trail form drive with his fist, like he's driving his lead arm. So that's a very important thing to distinguish his. I think the industry thinks that people only swing the putter when there's a lot of people that hit with the putter or drive the handle. Like there's more ways to move it than the theoretical
pendulum. Like I think the industry thinks that every putter should be swung, but that's not what I've come across with my experience of teaching players. You know, I've had a few broomstickers, right? Connor Brown, who I work with right now, plays at Alabama. He's probably the one of the best at it that I've seen.
And also Marty Gertzen, our friend out at Pang, you know, those would be two people I've worked with that and then a few other amateurs, you know, club, a lot of club pros that come in, you know, they have to struggle with the short ones. And it's but yes. And then obviously, you know, being out on tour for 18 years, 1718 years, you know, when you play a practice round with other players, you get to pick their
brain, right? And I'll tell you what's an interesting story, if you like stories, this one happens to be true. Back in 2015, I was working with Justin Rose and we were at Albany on the in the Bahamas. And if anybody's been there, there's not a lot of play. But on the putting green, Rosie and I are working. And then Adam Scott's there and he goes, Dior, why don't you go over there and ask Adam how he does his claw, right?
So I, I felt silly, but I went over, I said Adam, I said Rosie sent me over here to pick your brain on how you do the clawing goes. Oh, sure, mate. And he spent literally 20 to 30 minutes going through like every little detail on his fields, the claw.
So what? So what's interesting is I went over and explained to Rosie's like, let's take the cart back down to the house, get on the Sam pot lab and let's see how the graphs look and got on there and the grass, the rotational grass were smooth because I like this. I think I'm going to put it in play this week, which is the Masters. So we show up at the Masters and Fooch looks at me like, what are you guys doing? I'm set. He's going to do it by the back
nine anyway. And Foley comes up, he goes, are you guys crazy? You changed his technique the week before a major. I'm like, hey, you know, he's going to end up doing it. So that was and I told him, I said, you know, you're probably going to be better on the shorter putts, but you're going to struggle with flag putting because it's a really different way of holding the club. And I got thrown on the bus. He finished second that week. Jordan's fee. And if he if we hadn't changed
it, he probably would have won. And then obviously he's been working with my friend Phil Kenyon and he started with Phil Conventional and then Phil saw the same things that, you know, when you got him on the Sam pot lab, the stroke was better claw. And then, you know, Rosie, I've worked on and off with Rosie from 2012 to 2022 in different roles, different capacities, not just putting, but just different roles.
And he, he admitted to me, he said, you know, he goes, I really like my stroke conventional. He goes, but I don't trust it so much on the short ones. And he goes on the when I go claw, he goes feels a little more mechanical, but I feel locked in, you know, And I think so he chose the route of I'd rather make all the shorter ones and then work on my leg putting, if that makes sense.
So I know that's not broomstick and it's not claw, but it's a great story to lead off with because you know, Adam is probably got the best swinging style of broomstick. I think he uses a lot of the same principles. You know, I think he anchors it with his thumb, but it's not anchored to the body and he puts his forearm parallel to the to the line. I think his lead hand grip is the grip that's trying to keep the butt of the club stable.
And then I think he rocks his shoulders more in a vertical plane or, or a lateral plane, if that makes sense, which goes with the broomstick style, right? And you know, so and he uses more like momentum or swinging and momentum. So swing length and swing momentum is a key factor in why he's such a good lag putter with the the long putter, right? But. Well, let's talk about. I want to talk advantages and disadvantages of each one. So let's get right in into the
broomstick like. In theory, it's the simplest pattern. Why? What? What makes this simple? Because it's a fixed radius. So let's just take like literally a Lab mez one or an oz 1A shaft becomes a radius because it's going right into the center of mass of the club or relatively close to it. Plus Lab has done a good job of reducing the twisting to minimal to none. So you got this fixed radius that doesn't twist. To me that's an advantage, right?
And then and are you? Saying to fix radius because this side like wherever you're gripping the broomstick isn't moving back and forth, it's. Not translating, it's not translating side to side. And that would be the key to that, to that style is let's keep the butt of the club in as tight of a kernel or space as possible. OK, makes sense now how you power it. The butt of the club might move if I move my shoulders, but if I
power up my trail side. The key is it is the is a physical radius, whether it's 42 inches long or 48 inches long or 52 inches long, that's just whatever you fit to. And if you can position your right hand grip to move the shaft in the plane. So a lot of people are, you know, the the biggest torque in a putting stroke is not around the shaft, it's in the plane. That's the biggest torque. That's the most forces are going side to side, not twisting the club and not moving it out of plane.
You see, I'm saying so you got those 3 axes, XY and Z people when they are moving the club side to side, that's the most force, most torque, it's in that plane not twisting. You know, my thumb and my forefinger can negate any twist of the club. That make sense? Well, you've got a putter that's basically a fixed radius. Yep. If you can keep the butt cap relatively in a small little kernel, that makes sense.
Yep. Well you're saying if I'm hitting a normal putt my putter is moving the the butt end of this is moving back and forth right? Yeah, well, that would be do that again. Now that's translation. So now move the head and the butt of the club together. So that's translation. There's no rotation taking place. Yep, now and move the butt of the club 3 inches back, but let the club head go 8 or 9 inches swinging. So we're going. To go, you know, let it rotate.
Now move the butt of the club to the right and swing. Yes, now you have a planar motion. You have translation and rotation. OK, got it. And so this is what's happening in a conventional. Conventional stroke or Yeah, yeah, so. It's complex, right? There's because there's a lot. Of because it's no longer a single pendulum theory. Yep. Right, because there's translation involved, right? So translation just side to side movement, right.
So rotation would be a pure rotation would be keeping that butt cap in the same place and letting it rotate. Go ahead and do that for. Us like this? No, no, no side by that, Yeah, but keep your see you're moving your thumb. Don't move your thumb. Yes, yeah. So, so #1 it's a fixed, relatively fixed radius. I always add the word relative to those people out are saying, well, I I see it moving 1/4 of an inch, but it's relatively a fixed radius.
And then if you can apply a torque or a force and a torque in the plane, it's it's a simple method. And then let's put that plane at very vertical. Yep. So let's say what is it? Is the rule what 10° or 80? Degrees. I think it's 80, so everyone does 79 and. A half 8080, yeah, 80 off the horizontal, 10 off the vertical, right. So now it's in a vertical plane and you just start moving everything in a lateral plane.
What that's taken care of? Most of the problems in the conventional putting, when players start moving the putter in the horizontal plane, they start looking like this. Yeah. Does it make sense? So I think and it's legal. So I think in theory it's the easiest way to putt. But it's is that just that Adam Scott Lucas Glover style though? Like what about like a Bernhardt
I? And. I going all over the place or. Like, well, if you notice that almost all, almost all, not all, but almost all, they're keeping the butt of the club in a relatively small space. OK, now there's guys like Carl Peterson or I think Marty Putts with his trail arm. So like you can literally hold that butt cap. Go ahead and do that for us. And then move your right hand grip down, down. Now just take the putter back with your right elbow. And yeah, and that's drive it through.
Just drive, just drive it through naturally. Don't even think yes, you're pushing it through. Oh, you're. Saying the whole thing goes through no. No, no, keep the butt of the club in the same spot. Just use your right hand and arm Go. Yeah, yeah. But the butt of club went back, so you're not the. You got to keep that right. There you go. So that's not being swung. It's not a swinging pattern, that's a drive pattern. OK. So. You said that a couple Times Now. What does that mean?
Swing versus drive pattern? Define that part. It's got angular momentum around. It's a circular motion, right? It's being a rotational motion, which is I think a pulling motion or two rotations of pulling motion versus it being pushed. So it's almost like you pulled the putter back with your right arm and you pushed it forward, you are driving the handle. That makes sense. So I think I think the problem in the golf industry is everybody has this swinging
pendulum concept. And I'm just here to say that not everybody swings. The greatest putter conventional all time didn't swing. He hit it was Tiger Woods with his trail arm, trail hand he had now he had some swing blended in with it, which is what I would call more of a hybrid, right? Carl Peterson, if you look him up, he had some shoulder rock, but he also had some right arm drive.
That makes sense. So there's more than one way for the club to move, but I think as an industry, we think of swinging, we think of pendulum, we think of that swing length is what controls distance. In a swinging pattern, that would be true in a drive hold pattern. Hand speed is what controls distance. Hand speed would be here. Hold the butt of the club up. Hold, hold the club up for us. Now just take your right hand and drive the handle forward. No, the handle, not the head.
No handle, yes, but use it with your right hand. Drive it. That's what Alex Noren does with a left hand low grip. Go ahead and do left hand low grip. OK, now we're now we're standing up here. We go. Yeah. Now see, all your fingers of your right hand are near your forearm. Go ahead and lock them out. Go ahead and push the handle forward till it touches your forearm. Keep going. Touch it. Yes, yes. Now put your right. Now you take your right hand and drive that left arm and club
forward. Good. Now make a backswing long enough to drive. Yeah, and keep driving it. Yeah. Now you got to go a little bit longer backswing to drive it more. You'll see the butt of the club going forward and up. Yep. That thing is not swinging. The club's not swinging. Yep, here. You might like this. I've got I've got props here. We got this ready to go. I knew this was the. Same thing. Yeah. So now go ahead and do left hand low. Do the Alex Nora. Yeah. Now put your.
Now just drive the butt of the club with your trail arm. You can even straighten out your arm if you want to straighten out your right arm through the ball. See how it's your right elbows bent? Yes. That's it. That's driving, huh? Yeah. So the length of the backswing is not what's determining the distance. It's the hand speed. So we got 2 ends of club, we got club head speed, we got hand speed. Nobody's talking about hand
speed. They might be talking about hand path, but what about hand speed, Right? What controls hand speed by arm speed in my torso speed? That makes sense, yeah. Someone's someone's sitting here listening and they're like, do I drive this or do I swing it more? Help me help them navigate. This great question. All right. If you're swinging it, do you focus more on length? OK, so how far the club heads traveling and then do you feel like it's swinging itself, meaning more momentum?
That makes sense. Or look at your right arm and right hand and see how active your right arm is. If you have a very active right elbow and a very active right hand, you're probably driving the club now when when you demonstrated the go ahead and demonstrate the the left thumb on top. Now drive the lower portion on the club with your right arm. Yep, good. Just just go ahead and swing it. Just just do a little more natural than that. Don't even use your shoulders.
Just keep by the club right there. Keep your left thumb where your left thumb is. Gosh, it's. Kind of hard to do. Yeah, that's it. Now that's actually really easy to do. Now how? How important is your right hand grip? Well, I think it's pretty important because it's how we're applying that force to the. 100 So a lot of guys tend to go a little bit under. So let's Tommy Fleetwood kind of right hand a little under. Go ahead, maybe put it in the
web of your right hand. So like this is kind of how I. Yeah. So look at how your forefinger. Yeah, let's show us under. Show us under the club turn. Yep. So that would be like Tommy Fleetwood make a motion like that. Yeah, good. Yes. And your shoulder rocker. OK, now put your. Now let's go. One finger on top, One finger across. One finger, one finger across the top. Across the top. Yeah, like that. Now move it like that. OK, good. Now let's put everything behind
on the side of the shaft. So your right arm is going to change. Now. Now right hand, turn your pronate your. Yeah, keep moving your elbow out until it's in plane with the shaft. Oh, now go like that. Interesting. So there's lots of ways to position the right hand. OK. And it's going to, and it's really important for people that drive the club, huh? Because if it's positioned too far under, go ahead. Yeah, under. So too far under would be like this.
Yeah. And then if you were to drive your right arm out, it'll move the club out of plane on the follow through like in to out. OK. You see that? Like this, we'd be going in to out, maybe going that way too much. Your tilting is making it go vertical. Yeah. Yeah. And that interesting right now just to do 2 fingers across the top, like rabbit ears. 2 fingers. Yeah. And then put your ring finger on
the side. No ring finger on the side, Yeah, but two fingers, Yeah. Maybe stretch your right hand down the shaft so your right arm's not so bent. There you go. Yep. Now go ahead and control it there. So there's lots of ways that this can be done. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, now how do you? How do you so every, every conversation I've had with folks, like equipment folks, we was talking about, there's a, a phase of you got to figure it
out, right? And I, I went through that when I started, I was just like, we're going to do stuff. We're just going to hit putts and like figure it out. Like, how do you, is that what you would say? Like try these different grips, do this, do that. Like how? How do I figure out what to? Do I I don't throw stuff against the wall to see if it sticks. Like I kind of knew based on how you were holding it and how you were moving it, how it should move. OK. That makes sense.
Yeah. Yeah. Now let's get back to the simplicity of it. The broomstick is a fixed, relatively fixed radius. It is behaving like a single pendulum. So you want to minimize the translation of the butt of the club. Keep it in as tight a space as possible. Even if your shoulder rocking, keep it, keep it in as tight a space as possible, like a tight kernel. We call.
That makes sense, Yeah. And then figure out can I swing it. So like Adam, so he's got a large shoulder motion, so he's got to get length and I believe he's got a really heavy overall weight. Like I think his head weight might be slightly heavier than my overall weight of my gamer, my short. We had Sam. Sam, I think, said it was 512. Maybe I'd have to go back. So my Potter is 512 OK with the head, the shaft and the pin grip on it.
For me that's heavy because I've always plotted with five O 500, not the head, the overall weight. So I've been head weights of 340. 335 three 4345 right now is the heaviest I've been possibly ever. But that makes sense because now with the with the it's no longer a single pendulum when you're putting conventional because every segment and joint behaves like its own little pendulum. Like can you see my upper left arm swinging relative to my chest? Well, that's a pendulum.
You see my upper right arm swinging relative my chest, that's a pendulum, but of the club's translating back. So it's that's why conventional is so it's like a it's like a scooby-doo mystery, like people can't quite figure it out, but it's the same plot. That makes sense. Yeah. So it's you have to Now, the key thing is when you put conventional, you have to coordinate all this. And the the finer motor coordination you have, the better you tend to put.
You're just more precise. The face returns a little more swearer. So if we get back to the broomstick, to me, while it's legal and I always say that because I would have, I would have rewritten the rule. You would you would have banned it. I wouldn't ban. I wouldn't ban it, but the way I would write the rule, everybody would be putting with a putter that is equal to or less than the shortest club in your bag. OK. Grip it how you want. OK. You want to choke down on it and
lock it on your elbow? Fine, but it's going to be equal to or less than the shortest club of your bag. So what? How Long's your wedge? How Long's your your log wedge? I don't know just standard length. What's standard length? Log wedge? I don't know how long that is. 3535 1/2 maybe 36 but here but then somebody goes well what if they're 7 foot tall well aren't there overall length clubs longer? So you got a you got Shaq O'Neal playing golf and his clubs are two inch over.
Well, OK, well his wedge is 38 inches long, you know what I mean? So I I would have written the rule differently. Yeah. There I that is an interesting part of the story. OK, so, so broomstick, what we've learned so far is it's it's it is more simple bio mechanic. Whoops, sorry you're. Good. You're good it. It's more simple biomechanically. It well, it's simpler in theory. In theory. When you get that upright, it actually is simpler because the movements are more lateral than
horizontal. It's correcting a lot of the behavioral issues that players have with short putters. And is this why people go to go to the style when they want help with their short putts, right? Like it's just the complexity and the nerves and now this new style helps us. Look at Lucas Glover. Like I, I've known Lucas since he was at Clemson, and you want to talk about a great guy? He's a great guy. OK, yeah. And if you saw his stroke with the short 1, you would feel a
lot of compassion. And now you see how good the stroke is. Like go look at his stroke on YouTube. It looks great. OK, and here's why I think so. You know, some players have concepts on how they think the Potter should move. I think going to the long Potter matches how he thought a putter should move. That's what there's no more conflict in his concept or his fields because now they are matching what he believed how the putter should move.
So there. And plus, it's a brand spanking new pattern, probably minimal to no trauma in it, you know, I mean, and then all of a sudden, guys at that level, like those guys are the best in the world. And all of a sudden you've got just this glamour of hope and belief. And then all of a sudden it's like boom, like they become soup. Like Superman, Superwoman, they're unbelievable. Like, even on the LPGA Tour, you see them get like just that little glimmer of hope and then
boom, it just takes off, right? But yeah, so I, I, you know, and now as far as like, like Bernhard longer, I mean, I'd have to see him in person and ask him personally. So I can't really judge whether he's anchoring or not anchoring. The thumb is not on the the thumb is not on the the thumb is not on the the sternum. The question is, is the forearm touching the PEC? And I can and I can, you can only see with a shirt like I can't. I'd have to ask them, you know what I'm saying?
Like you tell me, is it touching your PEC? What? Well, that's the other style when people start experimenting with the brooms is do we go, you know, parallel with the lead arm to the ground or do you do some kind of more different style, right. Do you think there's another way or is it like this is the way you've got to do? I think if I were to shoulder putt in the lateral plane I would do my arm out like this. OK. Like like I. Wouldn't everybody start there? If you're going to try one,
start there. Try start there. Try swinging it like go watch Adam do it. Pull up YouTube and watch Adam do it. Matter of fact, there might be a couple videos on the out there him explaining it because he's very good at articulating his feels right and what he's trying to do, you know? So try to swing it first and you're going to need arc length, right? And you're going to need good timing and cadence to swing the putter. That makes sense. All I'm trying to say is not
everybody swings the putter. So now what's the second way of doing it? Second way of doing it would be the trail hand and arm. And I'm reversed for some reason I'm not. I look left-handed on my screen, but using the trail arm arm to pull the putter back. You might need a little help from this side of the like the right shoulder pulling it up and back, not the left shoulder, but the right shoulder moving up and back and then let your right arm do what it wants to do. That makes sense.
But you got to remember you're standing so vertical, like within 10 degrees, 12°, that the putter doesn't have a lot of horizontal arcing to it in in the first place. And it's minimal twisting. So you're not having to manage that. And then the whole thing weighs so much that all you got to do is get a little bit of momentum on the downswing and let that sucker let, let it go.
But some players use their right arm, their right hand to push the bottom of the club right versus the top of the club. Top of the club we call driving, bottom of the club we still call swinging with the trail arm, if that makes sense.
But that that's why I think it's so important getting the right length of the putter and then where, how far down if here, if you, if our listeners experiment how far, how far down the shaft and how straight your right arm needs to be like that would be one of the exercises that I did with the guy that does the long putter. I said, OK, I want you to do it with your hand up here. OK, now I want you to hit 1/2 inch. Go in 2 inch increments here.
And then we went down every two inches until his arm was straight. OK, let. Me demonstrate real quick, yeah, I'm using a short putter, but so starting with my hand up here, yes, go down to inches. See my right arm is straightening out, right, straightening out. I mean, where would be the best place if I could do it? Where would be actually where the center of mass the club would be balance point wise,
Find the balance point. Like if I could, if I could really do it, I'd put it there, huh. And now what? Do you notice it's staying stable? The button of the club. You're not. You're not moving. Yet now if I start to move my shoulders, uh oh. Now that relatively fixed axis is going through my body, maybe to my behind my spine, right? But so this is the easiest way, pushing on the balance point, huh? But now look at my right arm, right?
I think players are going to do better with their arm longer. OK, you. See what I'm saying and this by the way is to hang also too short, but I think with play around with different vertical placements along the shaft to find where you want to push from that make sense. Yes, yes. And even also same thing I'm going to go into swinging you ready? So it's like it's more my back muscles more of a down, up. Yep. You can see how the right hand here is not really pushing straightening.
So is the swinging verse driving? Could we simplify that down to that If you're focused on rotating your shoulders and back throughout, that's you're probably doing a swinging motion where if you're staying still, it's dry, it's more driving. You can water it down that way, but you still, even if I'm going to drive it, I still got to get this shoulder to pull the putter back. OK, because. It's going to feel weird going. Or I could do it with my elbow. Yeah.
Or you just pull it back with my hand, put my thumb on this side and go back like that. There's lots of ways to do this that makes sense. Yeah. But Adam Scott, I swear, is using more shoulders like this and much more in the vertical plane. That's why you'll see like, he's so good. He's so good. It's almost as if he's just holding the club with just his left hand. Yep, that it's funny. It's funny you say that. I talked to Sam Hahn and he said that's a drill that Adam does is
he just puts with his left hand. Yeah. So that would be, we'll call it the Adam Scott drill then, but you can see now the length of the stroke is and then the momentum. Yep. See, it looks like a swinging motion even with a heel shafted 88-O2. Yeah. Yep, now my thumb is keeping it from twisting. Right. That makes sense. Yep. So boom, boom, yeah, put the right hand behind. Just sit here and practice going
boom, boom, right? So if you can, if you can do this drill with coordination, then you just find where you want to be with your right hand grip. You see what I'm saying? Now I'm probably guessing a longer right arm that way because you got to remember, the more the arm is bent, the more it can straighten. If it already starts, starts out with say bent 10° and then my wrist is extended a little bit of ulnar deviation. So extension ulnar right now my arm's not going to participate.
It's not going to interfere with that. Plus the elbow is going to clear the rib cage better. Yep. You see that now? If I get my elbow here, that might be the worst place to put it. See how my elbow is on my side scene? That could be the worst place to put your right elbow in golf because what's going to happen is your trail upper arm is going to Roundhouse. You see, Watch my bicep, my upper arm, it's going to want to
leave that position. That's why from here it's got to feel outward when you're everywhere Here, the drive is outward and that closes the face. This movement right here is the this right here is the biggest problem in conventional as well as lead hand low. It's the, it's the, I think Steve Elkington called it The Dirty bird. There's the wing. Yeah, you don't want a lot of you don't. You're going to get some internal rotation, but you don't want a lot of it. That makes sense.
So I think for our listeners reviewing, this stays stable. Do I do the Adam Scott drill, right, that's what swinging is going to feel like. Or do I take it back with my trail shoulder back and up, pulling the thing, and then let my right hand and arm drive it through? Yeah, or just the right arm. What I think the the key part if with the drive that you said, which I resonate with is the if you're extending your right arm, right, if you see that happening, then you're driving it through.
You're not swinging. Yeah, OK. A lot of a lot of advantages You you've done a great job selling broomstick putters, so. So we should so and then let's talk about the putter. I think there is no better design and a lot of people think I'm anti 0 torque, I'm not I'm 360° of torque. I think there's an advantage at 0 face balance to me is 90° of toe hang. Yeah. Toe down is 180. There is a company that has made a putter that is face balance
face down. So now the putter is pointing at all four points of the compass near here, here and here on 360°. Now this putter here and this putter here is for somebody, but not everybody. But the problem is we've been playing golf just in this quadrant alone for how many years? All of the years. Yeah, from east to South, right, Like like a ping putter's there, right.
So face balance to me because the putter, first of all, they're showing you with the shaft horizontal and the revealer shows you the shaft at an angle. So it's not a fair fight. Makes sense. Even my thumb and forefinger alone. Why isn't this? I'm just holding this with my thumb and my forefinger. Why isn't it going? Why isn't the toe flowing open? Because it doesn't take much to negate the torque. So the torque is actually face awareness. It's face awareness now.
Interesting key. This is a note for our listeners. When you go from center shafted to heel shaft and lots of toe hang, you want the overall weight of the head lighter because it's going to feel heavier. The inertia feels heavy. Got it. As you go towards center shafted and 0 torque, you want to have your head. You need to understand that relationship because if I showed you a 0 torque blade, which my good friend David Frisch from Goodwood Golf made like, what would it feel like in a
conventional blade? Can't feel the head period. Feels like just just a shaft. So when you go 0 torque, you must go have your head. Makes sense. And as you go towards back towards toe hang, you might want to ease off on the headway. So the worst thing I see sometimes is somebody comes in with a heel shafted mallet and the head weighs 365 and they're wondering why they can't get the face to come back to square. It's because there's just too much mass in the head. Absolutely.
To me the Mez 1 Max is that correct versus the oz one dot I with the steel insert which I think's a big deal. You're coming up short with the grooves. Consider changing to the to the insert with the steel insert with a milled face, give you a little more ball speed. And I think Sam would agree with this that the the initial aluminum with grooves there's there's a tendency towards a slow ball speed, which would be great if you remember it, Oakmont or Augusta or Seminole, right?
But if you're playing on slow Bermuda greens down at the beach, you know, you might want to have a hotter face, if that makes sense. So do you know the new HS? The heel shafted loud? Does that come with the insert? I think so. Yeah, it'd be, it'd be brilliant. And then what I'd like to see them do. And if Sam's listening, why don't you put this stainless insert on the directed force? Yeah. Now you want to talk about really good for lead arm walk which we need to go into now.
Well, before we do that I do, are there any? What are the broomsick disadvantages? Like what? What can people besides people hating and comments on YouTube videos about how? It's all about coordination. How good is your coordination? Right? So if lie angle balance means that you can keep the lie angle from moving out of plane, that makes sense. So none of that technology works
if you have a non planar stroke. Do not use lie angle balance or zero torque putters if you're putting stroke is non planar. Non planar means. Do you see how this thing is going everywhere it wants to go? That makes sense. Guess what you probably should be using? I'm holding it up right now. OK. These putters like to go shallow or low and inside. That's just the design of them. They just love to do this. That makes sense. Yep, which the broomstick is a
planar because it's simple. Yeah, yeah. It's just, it's so like center shafted you just go, you know what I'm saying? So you could, but the problem is most of the training aids are too flat. Like it's the shaft plane needs to be set at what the, if you're talking the zero, the lab right with the, the shaft axis goes through the center mass or even overshoots it a little bit. But you know anything that's a linear vertical? That makes sense. Fairly planar.
But if you have a non planar stroke, meaning your shaft arcs too, not just your sweet spot but your shaft arcs, don't use these Potters. But. The directed force, yeah, boy, if that had a different face on it. I actually have a couple here. I actually have a couple of the first ones that Mister Pressy. Sent Yeah, we'll see. We'll see a bit of a. So I actually have eleven of these, not two of these.
The original. Yeah, with the forward press shaft and the micro angling back and if I were to put a claw, I'm using this. But again, it's how like do you see my right arm and elbow there? And. Then I'm putting my forefinger down the shaft because this is going, this is the only grip that goes in my lifeline. Every single one else goes this way. Like the pin grips are here. So look at I'm, yeah, I mean they're there.
I am. And then I'm going to make sure the ball positions forward because of the offset, the onset, excuse me, and then the shaft. And then from here, I'm probably going to swing it with my shoulders and then I might have shoulder and a little bit of right hand, right arm with this motion. So it's like if I were to go to claw and I'd either do this one or I'd do the axis one, which is the one that Rosie Rosie did. That makes sense. So now lead arm lock again.
Now the radius is offset so it's no longer in the middle of my body. It's there's got to be is there? Let me take a guess. Is there a lot of translation then happening in lead arm lock because it is moving? Because the arm is translating. Yeah. Right. So the butt of the club is translating. So now the radius is somewhere in space up by your lead lead between your lead elbow, lead shoulder. But the radius is now it's more of a brush stroke, like low, high.
OK. Because the radius is no longer in the middle, it's offset, meaning my hands are offset, which gives us a clue what kind of halls should we have. Probably offset with the correct amount of loft. And then the shaft lane. That's up to you. And if you want to feel more locked, you probably want the the two degree shaft lane or the wrist lock grip that you just showed. So do you want to lock out that radius and then drive it? You know, like driving it?
See, I'm you can see that I'm just driving my hands forward. Yep. How active is my right arm? You see what I'm saying? What it has to it, it does that in a in an arm lock or you can go probably either way, right? Can you do keep it more passive or you could do more? Than any drive through exactly. OK. Yeah. So I find it interesting and I don't know if I'm correct on this or not because it didn't Adam win his Masters with a short putter. I think he did. I can't remember.
I think he did, but I think JJ Spawn might be the first guy to win with 0 torque. He owes, yes. Yep. Yeah, so how cool is that? And he's left hand low. Yep. So what's funny is these alternative putters are matching alternative techniques. They might not be a match with certain conventional techniques, but they they have a place in the market. Does that make? Sense. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So. I've come to, I've come to the realization like I'm not fighting this anymore.
Yeah. If you can aim your lab and you can return it square and you don't have speed problems, I ain't saying anything about your putter. You can see on my feedback on my Facebook feedback or Facebook page, like there's plenty of people that I'm giving a lesson to have a lab putter. The only people I'm taking the lab out of their hands if they're struggling with their speed. So here's a special note.
If you see yourself short and left, short and left, short and left, there's a very good possibility that the ball speed is too slow off that face and that that zero torque is reducing the rotation in the back swing. You're putting that normal force into it and it's going left. So you got the short lefts. It may be a mismatch that makes sense. So what? We're going to guess they came from a toe balanced. They might have. Scotty Cameron like at 1:35,
right? Yeah. And so I think people that tend to have that pattern short and laugh, short and laugh, short and laugh. And then you put a little bit a little bit of toe hang like 9090 or 100 or whatever, 10° off face balance like boom, it matches right. But lead, lead hand. So I find lead hand low lead arm lock. I would probably be doing this one. And didn't they make one that had a smaller footprint? Is that the DF 3? There's we got the DF 3.
Yep, they they've got that one. So I actually designed my first two putters with David Frisch and Goodwin Golf, and they were not blades. One was a absolutely beautiful wide blade. It's gorgeous. I stole every good looking concept from Cameron and Bettinardi and all these custom guys and said OK, I'm going to put these all into one putter and it is absolutely gorgeous. Interesting. OK. I'll be text it to you and I don't know how good you are. How can I? OK, what's the website?
Let's pull it up. We'll, we'll no. It's not on. It's not. It's not for sale yet. It was just designed. OK. But I'm going to send it to you via text and then we're going to see how good you are at at posting this. Yeah, we'll pull it up. We'll pull it up on the screen here. So it wasn't a blade putter. See everybody thinks I only fit blade putters. I don't. I just wanted to design my own non blade putters. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I just sent you 23D prints.
OK. Of what they would look like and if you can pull them up on the screen, that would be really. Cool, I am going to try. Well, anyway, yeah, so lead hand lock, elite arm lock, it was great. So in 2022, Saint Andrew's British Open, I was with Rosie and we were playing practitioner with Bryson Dechambeau and Bryson was showing me how he does it. Yep. You know, again, a very upright plane elite are and then he torques his he torques his upper arm and lower arm against each other, right.
And then he's a golf machine guy. So he knows what tracing a straight playing line is. That makes sense. And then he's got like a lot lots of shaft lean, but also lots of loft. And doesn't he use a sick putter that has the variable loft? I think so, Yep. Yep, and whether you hit it high on the face, middle of the face or low, there's different planes with the loft, which is a pretty nifty technology. I think Steve Patterson back in the day like in 2013, 1415, I
think he owned sick. I don't know if he still does or not, but he had showed me that technology and that's pretty nifty. But you know Bryson, if you, if you'll notice, so a lot of times with lead arm lock, you will see because the radius is here, you will see a lot of head movement up and back. That's good behavior for lead arm lock. That's good behavior for lead hand low. We don't want to see the head floating and the torso floating toward the target.
So typically when the radius is locked out, you'll see tilting like that's normal. So, you know, Brad Faxon was a good friend of mine and he goes, he goes and I have his 3D data, you know, like the body data. And he's like Dior, my head moves back. I'm like, no, your head moves back the most and you're the best because he actually sets up open and tilted that goes together.
And then when he goes through, he really he tilts his head as he's turning his head and then he tilts his spine so his head moves the most. So keeping your head still is not a fundamental. We just don't want your head floating forward. We don't want it dropping or extending too early. Like it needs to be fairly stable up till about impact and then after impact, the good kids heads move back. So did you get my text there? Did or no? Did they come in?
Said Red. So you've seen what they look like? Whoops, you're on mute. Sorry, we're get, we're going to get these pulled up here. Oh, this is not ideal, but we're going to we're going to do it anyways. OK, so here you go. Oh wow, boom, they're not blades. Not blades. Tell us what? What were you working on here? What are you? What are you doing? So I've always felt like the footprints are too big. OK.
Like even on the #7 So David Frisch is a good friend of mine of Goodwood Golf Company and he and he does make long putters for Longbow. OK. Longbow's a good friend of his, that company. He makes long putter putters all the explorer I believe or, or something, but you can look those guys up. But so I go up to his garage in Maryland and we're literally in the middle of nowhere and he's like, yeah, I want 2 new designs to put on my website. And he goes, I want your, your
thoughts? I'm like, OK, I think the footprints are too big. So this is actually a shorter wide blade. I also put you can't see it from, but down the line it has the toe has some rise to it, so it looks like the toes in the air, but it's sitting clutch makes sense. And you'll notice that we radiused everything like look at the shoulders and the bumpers and everything's soft. So I did the same thing with the number seven. Look at there's the only thing that's a straight line is the face.
Explain everything has been radiused. That makes sense. Now that's a smaller #7 than you're used to seeing. OK. That's and we're using either a post or a hole for a single bend. I wanted to see a number seven with a single bend and we trim the the shaft a certain maybe an inch or two to get a certain desired toe hang. So this will be a 10 to 2020° toe toe hanging number 7. And I got to pick the names. So the model on the left is the DO 11. It's the DO David or 11 is my
favorite number. It's what I wore in most of my jerseys in high school. DO 11 wide blade that looks so good. Now keep in mind these are 3D prints. These are not metal. These are not the finished product. The other one we call the MF7. Now, MF for a lady would be a mallet fanged #7 so if you're selling it to a lady, it's an MF7, it's a mallet, it's got the fangs and it's a #7 model, so MF7. Now if I were selling it to a guy, it's an MF7, yeah. I like.
That David and I kind of always joke about, yeah, you know, how many of those MF sevens are you making, right? So, but it was fun. It was fun to really learn to get on a CAD system right to, to really understand what goes in to you start with a basic shape on a CAD, just like you would have built a steel. But rather than wasting money on trying it out on steel, we David used a 3D printer because it's saving me what, 60 bucks a steel, you know.
And the cool thing is, is once you get the 3D print, you put a shaft in there and you get an idea what it looks like size wise, shape wise, radiuses and all that cool stuff. Then when he decides that, OK, I think we got it, then you run a one off. So then you put it through the CNC machine and it takes a lot of time and then all of a sudden you actually have the first one one.
So it was fun because learning to locate the center of gravity of the cloth relative to the center of the face relative to the shaft, that relationship is what makes putter designs. Putter designs. Yeah. It's not just what it looks like. There's a whole, you know, where's the shaft going to be? Where's the center of the face going to be? Where's the how high is was the depth? Oh, by the way, I'm on MF7. Do you know how ballots tend to
be shallow faced in our mass? Now, this is the same height in the middle of that. MF7 is the same height as your Scotty Cameron. And the center of mass is forward and it's higher, so you don't have to lift it. You know how Rory misses some putts a little thin as the putters, like lifting on a mallet. The center of masses tend to be low. In fact, you actually have to have some lift which creates more rise angle and maybe occasional low hit strikes.
So same thing, you know, Now what's interesting is if I were to make that MF7 for a long putter, you want a bigger footprint. So the smaller footprint is actually for the conventional. But it just I just wanted to spell that David Orr only only does blades because that it's out there that David Orr only does blades. So I didn't want my first design to be a blade. It's more of a wide blade or square back. And my second design is a mallets an MF7.
You know, now I'll go back with David and let's, I don't think I can do a better blade than David. David Fritch has two models, One's the G61's, the G71 looks like an answer to and one looks like an conventional answer, you know, rounded. So it's one's more squared off on more rounded. And then he's put his little touches on it like removing some ledges and things like that.
But it's, we were talking on the phone, like pretty much every geometric, geometric shape has been made like to really like come out with a new design. It's like everybody's copying something from everybody, if that makes sense. And you look at the lab, right? So the lab has gone from the directed force, right Footprint. It's large. They've made a smaller footprint.
You look at the the Mez 1, I think at first it had a big footprint, then they had a smaller one, I think, and then the Oz one, right, which is more malady looking more like in the D shaped family. You know, it'd be interesting to see if they make a smaller footprint of that one and they've done the heel shafted one now, which I haven't seen yet, which technically isn't heel shafted.
It just means the Hazel, the shaft still, I think going really close to the center of mass and they might have tricked some weight in the heel or whatever to make it lying a balance, but it's not truly heel shafted. Heel heel shafted is my this is heel shafted. This is shafted. They're just got a a post that's located toward the heel. That's a certain hot Hazel height, which by the way, that's another way to get rid of toe hang is changing the height of the Hazel.
And that's what we did with my custom blade that David made me. We went with a custom, you know how you got like maybe an inch and a quarter height of a plumber's neck versus like 3 inches, right? You know, so it's interesting, but lead arm lock, I think like lead arm lock, claw is a deadly combination. OK. Think of Webb Simpson. Yeah. Like you're locking in the radius again and then again, what are you doing with this trail hand?
You're just trying to put force and torque in the plane, right? So if there's a common theme between broomstick lead arm lock, it's a fixed radius. It's you are trying to control the butt end of the club as well as the head end. That makes sense and I think. Disadvantages Marty talked about with Armlock a lot was leg putting being more difficult. Yeah. Tell tell us about your thoughts on that. And I mean, is that why we don't see more people doing it? Because it is less than you?
Got to get the lock correct. So Alex Noren took a lesson for me on tour a couple years ago and he goes to me and goes, you do, you know, I got the most RPMS on Quintic, Like he's got the most RPMS. And I said, oh, that's great. How you doing on your uphill left to riders? He goes, that's why I'm that's why I got a lesson with you is why I said because you're launching them into the slope and into the Bermuda grain and the ball is hopping and you're judging your distance off that hop.
I go, how much left do you got? He goes 3 and I said, well, your shaft lane looks like it's more than three. So you got negative loft into, into a slope into friction. There's a wall like the ball hits a wall of grass and then it bounces. So how good is that RPM when you're, when you're launching it into a slope with high amounts of friction, it's not helping you. So he goes, well, how much loft do you think I need?
So I, I had him on my Capito and I know what a shaft lean was and I said, well, the minimal amount, I think a shaft thing was 4°. Now I think about, I said, well, I like to see a launch of about two degrees. So what's 4? What's 6 minus or 4 four, 4 + 2, you go 6. I said that's what lost you me because I don't know if I can do that because now you're Sacr, he's going to reduce some of his what RPM is going to replace it with a better launch and he's going to have a higher launch
speed. So what's interesting is I think Paul Hurrians on his quintic, like if you get a green number, if it's 1.75 launch, but that would be like on a artificial surface. We're we're playing golf in a real world with grass. Biv Waden did some great talk about going from artificial to real grass. If you ever get an opportunity, you should interview him on artificial versus real grass. That'd be a good topic. Yeah. Biv Waden.
So what's interesting is I think Scotty kind of is intuitively right, like they're out there in the POA country, right in the fescues. Like I think the launch angles got to be up there more like 2 1/2 three. You know, I'm saying like the the taller the wall is of the grass that you're launching into, the more loft you need. Makes sense. So what's funny is when I used to do a Dell putters, I had a two degree loft of putter, but I tend to have 1 1/2° of shaft length.
So now I'm launching it at 0.5. Well, I had that toppling Alex Noren RPM bounce. Yeah. Oh, it looked good. Yeah, right. And what's funny is I'm all the way back to playing like 3 1/2 degrees. So 3 1/2 -, 1 1/2 is 2. So I'm launching most of my putts at 2:00 and then I used to hit a lot up on it. Now I'm move the ball back closer to low point but not quite a ball still left a low point. It's just only like an inch inch
and a half left a low point. I'm almost launching it more now, like a knuckleball like 2 up with a two degree loft. Like I'm launching it with the least amount of spin. That makes sense. I could be totally wrong but I've seen my personal lag putting get better, so lofting up, not lofting down that makes. Sense if someone's like oh man this is super interesting how how would someone check this if they're what tech do they need to check if the. How they're launching is the Quintech.
Paul Hurian is the guy. Like, have you ever interviewed him? No, I don't think so. Well, there's a second topic. Doctor Paul Hurian is the ball roll expert. His system is worldwide the best when it comes to ball roll launching, if you know, if that's what you like to get fit for his ball roll, he's the guy. I would say of all the fundamentals that that's the least knowledgeable. I am, if that makes sense.
But I've come to appreciate like the change, you know, so and a lot of my launch stuff comes from Biv Waden and Biv. And I were talking about this. I said, yeah, I've been moved the ball not as far forward, moved it back. It's still in front of low point in my rise angle used to be like 4, I don't know, 3-4 to 5°, but I'm putting really bad brushing up five degrees and I've moved it back to almost like 2 and
they'll deliver. Loft is 2 and like man, I'm, I'm getting some good ball speed now. It's probably launching with no spin. Or little spin, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, So I, I think it's interesting, so. Let let me bring us back to armlock here. So we, we kind of talked about how it works a little bit. Who would you say should try a long putter? You should try armlock like what? How would you guide someone if they're? It all depends on coordination.
Like that's the reason why you're going to these is you lack the coordination with the short one right now go to lead arm, go to left hand low. Actually go to claw before left hand low. So let's let's give it an order. I've been caught with a short 1 and I'm missing a lot of the little ones. Right, all right, go to claw first, learn to stabilize the top hand and then find the right arm length right then go to left hand low. If you're left-handed, go to left hand low.
Makes sense now there's a lot of players that putt left hand low but still drive the club with the trail arm. Jordan Spieth. So Jordan Spieth is a good left hand low example. You can see the butt of the club translate, especially after he's hit it. Watch what? Watch what his club does after he hits. It makes sense It doesn't have any influence on the ball, but you can see what the brains going like. I want the club going there
right? And then probably lead arm lock, claw like web sits in or lead arm lock, wrist lock and drive like Alex Noren. Then I guess we got to go to the broomstick, right? And then you either got to do it like Adam or you got to do it like, you know, the trail side. And then I hate to say it, what comes after the broom is pickleball. There's your as you pretty much, you've pretty much exhausted now. That's when players come up with really alternate.
Like I saw a guy who was lead hand, low claw, like he's pulling the Potter through this left arm. Actually have a video of that. Like, I mean, it it the modified grips, the modified. It's amazing for the simplest part of the game. It's amazing how people struggle with the simplest part of the game, which maybe we've been lied to. Maybe putting is not the simplest. It looks innocent, doesn't it? Like you just knocked the ball into a little Gopher hole.
Is that what Robert Robin Williams used to say? Yeah, but yet it causes how much trauma as soon as we miss A2 footer. Lot of lot of trauma. Yeah, exactly. A lot of trauma. That's where the pickleball comment comes in is I'm done with this. Yeah, you. Know what I mean? Well. Let let's end on this. I need your prediction. So right now, use the long putter who we we've got Lucas, Adam, Scott, Akshay, Akshay, Taurus. We got a handful of guys. Five years from now, is it going
to be about the same? Will it be double, triple that? Like what? What do you think? I'm not Nostradamus, but I think Lucas's stroke has gotten better because I think the concepts of the long putter match his belief system now. Zealot Taurus. There's a good example when he was when he was struggling with it, the putter was not moving in the vertical plane in the backswing. It was moving in the horizontal.
So you can see the putter move like the radius moves inside and then he was almost missing the the face. Remember that. Yeah, I've seen that video. Whatever training aid he was on or concept he was taught was he was trying to arc. Don't try to arc these things. They arc themselves, but very little. But if you get one of these things and you're trying to arc that shaft that much, you get what Will was going through a
few years ago. Like remember I think he had almost looked like it stayed on the ground, feel like like a hovercraft. It went like low inside and on the ground and then he miss hit it. That's all total plane and hand path issue. Do you know what I'm saying? When all he had to do was go back and up, let it fall, come back down, forward and up. Like work more in the vertical plane with these things. Do you see? I'm saying even my hands got a little horizontal, but it feels very vertical.
So I think you know these putting mats that my good friend Phil Kenyon come out with, you won't use one of those with a broomstick because you're going to start arcing the shaft. We don't want you arcing the shaft. We want you arcing the sweet spot in a plane that's probably anywhere from, I don't know, 10 to 12° or whatever it is, whatever your specs are right now. Oh, there's another thing. If you get too far away from it with a long putter, then you're going to start contending with
the shaft arcing too much. Does that make sense? So there, so you know, stand close where you can see the line get get the length right, get the weight right, get the loft right, make sure the ball positions left a low point. That's important. I would probably hover myself like because you know how easy it is to like catch the ground in the backswing because the putters on the ground, I might would probably lift it up a few millimeters.
That makes sense. So it's just so much easier to to take, take away the draft angle on the putters, not grabbing any grass. But yeah, I mean, as long as the rules are written what way they are, then as long as you're not breaking any rules, then, you know, go for it if that makes. Sense what do you think? Are we going to see more of this five years from now? Do you think we're going to see
people keep adopting? Well, I think, I think this guy I sent you a video of should have just signed up for lessons. That makes sense. Like spending $600.00 on a putter. Why don't you spend $500 or 750 on so you understand some correct concepts and then get a putter, whatever it is. This putter fitting is another another discussion on another day because you're going to get 10 different putters from 10 different fitters.
So, but I don't know, five years from now, I think people are still trying to solve the Riddle. Why doesn't my ball start online? You know why? You know, it's funny. Why does my lab putter twist? Well, the reason is, is where my expertise is, is joints rotate, joints and segments of the body rotate. So that's what's imparting the twist butter. You know, the zero torque putter is not twisting, it's you are. Why isn't it staying square to the path because your past not centered.
It's not you know what I mean? Like I have not seen any of any Potters fix poor mechanics. I have seen well fit Potters who with people with good mechanics it can it could be the difference of 1/2 a degree that makes sense. But you can't fit poor concepts in poor mechanics. But I think the simplest concept in golf is, you know, this is the simplest theory right here. Whether you swing it, drive it or hit with it, that's just kind of the way you coordinate your movements. So are you?
The question is, are you putting with the long butter? I am, yeah. I've been for a year and a half or so. Yeah, and what's the difference? I mean, I'm a big fan. I I had the you know, the right hand just felt weird over short putts that I just couldn't. I mean I can look great if I go on your green behind you there and you have me putt. We did a lesson. I bet I could look awesome and it would be it's.
A safe environment. Exactly, but I don't want to hit a a left to rider 5 feet in a tournament that way though I'm not interested in doing that. There's a reason why that's a different environment like this is a safe environment. Yeah. It could be the safest. You're putting mat at home, then the practice screen is a little more dangerous than this, but it's still safe. And going out playing on your golf course, your home golf course by yourself is a safe environment, but it's harder
than the practice screen. Then when you get invited to a Country Club to play in a member guests, now the threat has gone up more makes sense. And then when you get in contention of a tournament, it's so it's like 5 different environments, 5 different levels of stress. At some point you're not mentally and emotionally prepared to handle it in your stroke breaks down. Yeah. And that's what I don't think golfers appreciate from all these tour players.
All the tour players that I've seen are just geniuses. They're great. Some are better than others, Some are struggling, but they're geniuses. These guys are so good. Like there's a huge gap. Like even though like what is it #1 on Tour was positive 0.9 strokes gained and that was Sam Burns. So you're only gaining one stroke per round. Yeah. But see, everybody's looking at putting the wrong way. Oh, I got to make more 15 footers. No, you don't.
You got to reduce errors. You got to reduce your green reading errors. You got to reduce your speed errors. You got to reduce your line errors. You might have two to three errors on the same cut. It's error reduction. You don't need to make another 15 footer. You got to stop missing these three footers and two footers and five footers and that's what I'm hearing you say is I went to the long putter because that left to right five footer was became a problem. Yeah, and it worked.
I mean, I'm not like amazing now, but like I feel better. Like I feel like I have a real chance to make this. Well, you know. Well, and also because the putter design probably isn't going to. It's still going to rotate do the length and curvature, but it's going to rotate less so on that left to right or there's less rotation. You're going to find that a left rider is a lot more friendly versus your right to left putts
now become a problem. So now you got to play maybe a little bit higher line, which is always good, you know. But but yeah, I mean, five years from now, I don't know. Well, based on our conversation, it sounds like you believe there definitely be more people using a broomstick versus an arm lock. You because like. Well, I just think it's the simplest way, but I would go in progression that I described that makes sense. Go to claw before lefty and low.
I could do an entire dissertation on why that is and has to do the right arm and the right wrist. But yeah, and and the thing that I don't want to see, I don't want to see junior golfers going to the broomstick. I don't want that that to be the first putter they learned to putt with. My my 7 year old has requested a broomstick. Well, let them have one. But to me, and I've said this before, that every child should learn on an 88-O2 or a bullseye first to develop face, head and
shaft awareness. Those three things, face, head, shaft awareness, right? Then they can move to the technology. So it just really, I would not want to see a 10 year old or 12 year old in a junior tournament potting with all this technology and doing the long putter. That makes sense. Yeah. Now I could be, I could be convinced to change my mind. I can because it is theoretically simpler. But there's a reason why they had the Sam Sneed rule. What's that? When he no more side saddle.
Oh yeah. Or straddling the line, like when it's competitive advantage, the rule has to change. Like when everybody's dominating with broomsticks, then we go to the, then we go to the David Orr rule, right? Which the club has to be equal to or shorter than. Well, let me pin you down with another prediction then. Will the rules change, do you think? Do you think we'll see another rule change and and do.
You want to revolt? I mean, do you want lawsuits because these guys career depend on it, their livelihoods, like Webb Simpson's livelihood depending on that change. That makes sense. You know, Adam's livelihood, I think he might be set for life, you know? But you know, it's yeah, it's just it's a touchy subject. But the way the rules are written right now, it's legal.
It just saddens me to see junior golfers, like even when they come to me with claw, it's like, dude, I'll teach you how to hold the club, I'll teach you how to make a great stroke. I'll teach you to become face aware, head aware, shaft aware. And then if you're still having problems, then we'll then we'll look at that. Yeah. But the kids just mimic what their favorite player is doing.
Yeah. Yeah, you know, I did that, you know, and every sport, you know, mimic my favorite player, you know, I mean, you know, I couldn't wait to get my first pair of Nikes, you know, which is the same thing as getting my first Scotty Cameron. But now that's going to be replaced with I can't wait to get my first lab putter. And you got to give a you got to give Sam Han kudos. Didn't their company just sell for like to a private equity firm for like 200 mil? I I think yes, yeah, no, it's,
it's really cool. It's one of the great stories in golf right now you know of. Probably the story, right? Especially from a business, like how good of a business deal was that? I mean, if I had that deal, Sam, Sam, if if I were you, I'd be having my chalet on Snowmass in Colorado or whatever it is or, and I'd be skiing every day and, and then I'd be skiing in South America or Australia in the summer and I wouldn't be worrying about putters.
You know what I mean? But I think you still would be. I think you'd still be pretty worried about making putters. Yeah. But I don't think you can get away from it. Yeah. So, but yeah, I just think that, you know, there's a part of me that is still old school and classical and artistic. That's another thing that people don't know about me personally is that I pull from both ends of the spectrum being very artistic and creative versus very scientific and database driven,
data-driven. That's why I couldn't wait to design those putters and none of them had sharp edges. They are already curves are great, you know, so but no great podcast on this. I I hope I hope I hope people understood there's different ways to do it that the swinging model isn't the only model makes sense. The progression of conventional to claw to lead hand low to lead arm lock to to broomstick to pickleball. That progression, yeah. Is it good progression so.
David, here's the deal. In the next 6 to 9 months, we got to find a time when we're together to putting green and we're going to do a video and let's go through that progression. And like you talk about where to take people through because that'd be great. People would love, would love that it. Would be fun, wouldn't? It, it would be, that'd be really cool. So people want to learn from you more. Flatstick Academy, is that still
the place to go? Www.flatstickacademy.com I've got two different products on my website. So I have the subscription model, which is the 999, which is basically I'm just dripping whatever is on my mind that week or two weeks. So it's very disorganized. First, as we have now digital product packages like Short Putt Focus is my favorite video package. It's like a package of 12 videos, all the drills.
We're actually getting ready to film Long Putt Focus here in the end of October. I have flat stick fundamentals for people that want to know what are the fundamentals of a punting stroke. Plastic fundamentals is really good. And I'm just being honest. Don't buy my flat stick practice plan because that was our first shoot and the videographer didn't know what he was doing and I don't think Matt and I knew what we were doing.
So don't buy that one. But I think, you know, the short putt focus right now is really top notch and plastic fundamentals. Those would be two that I would purchase myself. I'm my biggest critic and I was like, yeah, these are going to suck. And then you watch him like, man, we we we did pretty good. You know what I mean? So I'm actually looking forward to filming the long putt focus. We're going to go from pine needles over to Southern Pines Country Club, which we own.
And they have what's called this the over hills, which is probably the most it's one of the larger practice greens in the world and it's got tons of crowns and saddles that it's almost probably one of the most difficult practice greens. So we're going to be filming our long putt focus on probably one of the most challenging practice greens in the world. And you're going to be able to see some balls moving a lot. I don't think there's too many. There's not too many straight
putts on that green. So. Perfect Flatsick Academy. That's good. You always have the best ideas. I always enjoy learning from you, David, so thank you. Thank you for your time. It's super fun. Perfect. And I think we should film that progression. That would be a great idea. It'd be so good. All right, stay tuned on the YouTube channel, folks. We'll we'll get there eventually. All right, man.