This episode of the gulf Science Lab podcast is sponsored by rap. Soda rap soda makes an affordable mobile launch monitor for any golfer. We all know that to get better, we need better feedback when practicing and rap. So do gives you just that things like distance Club, head speed ball, speed, launch angle, and some really valuable information to help you play your best. They have put this thing up against some of the best launch monitors and have seen really Be
good results. When comparing it? It's accurate, I've tested it, we've done some videos, you can go check out what we've seen in all the details over on our YouTube channel. Use the discount code GSL for a really good discount that is the discount code GSL or click the link on the post that goes along with this podcast. Alright let's get into it. We're on a mission to help golfers from all over the world, achieve their goals by understanding what. It actually takes to play their
best golf. We're talking with leading instructors, researchers, and players themselves to find what is actually working Hey, welcome back to the podcast. We are kicking off a new series today. It's all about ball striking. How can we do that more effectively when using launch monitor feedback? Now that, you know, so many clubs have simulator rooms so many folks are buying, you know, like the 500 dollar launch monitor in that category is exploding. What can we do with all this feedback?
And how do we need to be using it to improve our ball striking? That is the goal of this podcast series, and it is sponsored by wrap, Soto thankful for them for doing that. We're gonna talk a lot of different things. Here we have Tony Ruggiero on today, we're going to talk about how to approach has used launch monitors. Whether it's on the road, pre-tournament what as an instructor he is paying attention to when it comes to
ball-striking. So we're talking everything from path and face, how he changes that with pressure trace and everything in between. So lots of great info, Tony is a A good friend and it runs the powered by golf Landslide podcast called the tour coach, which is fantastic. He's always out on the road, interviewing good people as he's going from tournament to tournament. Definitely go check out that program.
But other than that, let's Dive Right into this conversation and get started on our journey to better ball striking. In this new series, All right, so we are kicking off our ball. Striking series with Tony Ruggiero to her coach podcast. Tony, you are a ball striking Aficionado. I feel like I think I'm fortunate. I've got a bunch of guys that hit it pretty good. Makes me look better. But you know, I think that some of the stuff that in the way we teach probably, you know,
probably helps that right. You know, I've been fortunate that some of the people I've taught from even from high school. And developing into tour players. They've been good ball Strikers. It's been their strength. So I think it's probably a combination of some of the stuff we do and in the fact that they're really gifted and talented is probably more of it. What is a good ball Striker? Mean, let's just start there.
Like how do we Define that? Well, I think there's lots of ways you could Define it. These are the ways. I look at it. One contact to me, great ball, Strikers, always find us and really good ball Strikers. Hit it in the center of the face and in the one thing that's incredibly important for me. Teaching players at higher levels is to me the better ball Strikers. Might hit a little Rider, hit it a little left, but their distance is almost always exactly what they wanted.
You know and they know exactly how far the ball is going to go. So I think great ball Strikers. But what you mean by a great ball Striker is that they have real control of their golf ball with contact. Great contact. Consistent contact and the ability to control the distances. I think everybody misses it a little right little left, but they always control distances. Really well, interesting interesting. So quality of strike Center face contact.
You do a lot of like foot spray then on like stuff and tests. Or how do you do? How do you train center of it? Don't now I don't use the foot spray, I know lots of guys do. I've just never been my deal, probably just too lazy to get up off the chair and go spray it but you know, one of the reasons like the quad and the foresight, one of the reasons I got interested in that early on. Was because you could see exactly where it hit on the face.
I know we're talking about launch monitors and I thought that so I thought it was more easy to explain mrs. Because of where he saw it on the face so that was one of the reasons that they show. Like if I'm worried about contact, that's probably more where I go with it. Gotcha, it's a great ball Strikers, make great contact at the center of the face. A lot that means their distance control is good. They might miss a little writer
left. When you think a great ball Strikers, do you think of someone One who can work the ball, both ways someone, you know, like, Lucas where it's everything's right to left. Like the shot shape matter to you. And you think ball-striking? No, I mean, I, you know, I don't, I think that, I think all of them can all great ball Strikers can when they have to curve it a certain direction, right? And we mentioned Lucas, I mean he can hold it against the wind
curve, it left, right? If he needs to certainly not as preference. And I think, to be honest, he would tell you, He's gotten better at that in the last three or four years, you've hung out around us Summit Frederick and stuff. We're like at times, he almost gets pissed that it's easier for him to get a fade. Then it is sometimes to draw. But you know, I think all I think all really good ball Strikers, can curve it if they have to, but I don't, they're to me and I know there's
exceptions. There's very few that are doing a lot both ways. I think they have a preferred shot shape and you don't know. They may be different for off the tee and with iron Earns but I think they have a shot that they could. That's repeatable. I think repeatable is the key. They it comes out the same window who comes to mind when you walk arranged on too early who comes to mind? Is, is that Persona?
Well, I mean I think Lucas is, I mean, not just because I coach him, but I think he's one of the best ball Strikers out there. Right? You know, I thought when he played really good golf, this is going back. But these are guys, I coached, I thought, when he had that stretch where he played really good, I thought Smiley Kaufman
was a really good ball striker. Really control desire and distances and curved it one way left to right for the most part, you know, and that would go into the, where if you start curving, it both ways. I think that's where guys have it to try and to do that. Sometimes, get off track. So, trying to think who you walk up and down. I mean, like, I can remember standing at a u.s. open next to Dustin Johnson and listening to him, hit it and it sounds different, like it's good, right?
You know, DJ is always impressive you. No irons and wedges to me, one of the best wedge player and it's so fun to watch him, hit irons, and it's so pure, it's Justin Thomas, and I love watching him, hit wedges and not scoring clubs. Like, I think everybody talks about his footwork, right? Like with the drivers they show those pictures of his feet in the air.
If you watch it kind of scoring Club, how beautiful his footwork is, how great is rhythm is, and how solid and how good the contact is and how his distance control is. With the scoring Globes. Interesting, interesting, well, you see, you mention the word consistency, right? When we talk about ball-striking, I'm sure that you've probably heard 80% of people walk into your your studio and say, Hey, I want to be more consistent. What's your answer to that? How do you negotiate that word?
I struggle at that word because I feel like it's I mean, I don't know if consistency is a thing personally. But I think consists, I mean, I think some people that come in are consistently. They consistently suck. Yeah, right. No, I mean, consistency doesn't necessarily mean good, you're good is right, I think. But yeah, I think there's a couple things and, you know, I know you've done some stunts of stuff, will Greg cart, right?
But like the whole I think, once you once you understand that golf really hard and that I think by Nature, it's inconsistent and that there are lots of ups and downs, you're probably set up to become a better player. But I think that I think that most golfers, what they really mean when they come to you and they say they want to be We're consistent is that they want a more repeatable shot pattern. They don't want to be trying to draw and all of a sudden, hit a
huge right? Shot in a big left shot. I think that's what really golfers are looking for. And so when they when they come and they say that they want to be more consistent. I think they want, they don't want mrs. To go both directions and I think they want to understand what's causing their bad shots. I think of so many golfers out there struggle because they, you know, They don't understand what's causing their bad shots. And I think this is a real key and I tell our Junior golfers,
this all the time. That one of the great things I think about tour players and the best players in the world is that they understand what it is. They need to do to hit their good shot. I think they're way less concerned with other stuff, other people and all that, but they have a real understanding of what it is. They need to do to hit their good shot. I think, you know, recreational golfers the weekend warrior, I think they're always worried about like what made it go,
laughs. What made it go? Right. And they don't ever have a basic understanding of what it is. They do when they do a good I think if you understand what it is you do when you hit your good shot, you've got a better chance to repeat it. And the more you can repeat something by Nature, I think you're going to be more consistent for me. I've always found like, when you understand dispersion pattern, the first time, somebody sees that, right?
All right, me hitting an 8-iron verse Lucas, hitting an 8-iron 10 shots, then looking the dispersion pattern is going to be drastically different. Different, right? Let's that's consistency in one form is. Well, we're all going to We're not gonna hit in the same spot no matter how good you are. But his pattern is going to be way tighter over 10 shots than mine right and for me that's consistency is just knowing that hey it could go anywhere in here. I'm just not that good.
So my my window of Tolerance is way bigger than you know someone else, right? Right. And that's you know if you look at like I mean all the stats and those types of systems Out there in the cone and I, you know, obviously one that on social media, bunch of people uses that decade. But like, you know, knowing how to aim your cone, right? The biggest you know, Mac Barnhart, I always sit down Horace and talk about like knowing your variance, you know, you got to know how far right?
You can miss it and how far left you can miss it and if you can do that you can play golf and aim. And I think what you just said is so your boundaries or wider that, Lucas Glover Robbie Shelton, there's ex-hooker Rick Lyon. A more whoever, right? And so I think all we're doing when we coach and teach is helping people understand what makes those boundaries get wider so that they can bring them in and that their shot dispersion. This is less. Let's talk launch miners.
Let's get specific when we're trying to tighten you know that cone you know what metrics are most important to you? What data are you looking at like what are some of your top numbers that you think are most important path and face? You know, to me? Bigger the difference between the path and face like, you know, like, I think, you know, if a guy wants to draw it as path and and his face, you know, it's past got to be into Al. I don't think you, I think.
But the more in doubt it goes, the more you're going to have to have the face close to that path. So I try to have less variance is now I don't I try to get people. I'm not a big zero. It out guy like where you want it to be 0 but I think like You know, you when you get people with paths that are way left with faces that are way open. I think that you get more, you know you get more variances in there if you get way into out with a face that's shutting having to shut a lot more to the
path. I think there's more, you know, there's going to be more curved, you know, more variances in there. So I try to I'm always looking it path and, and face on that, you know, contact for me is a lot of pivot work, right? I think if At people like you get recreational golfers and they don't you know, they hid behind it, they hit it fat, they hit it.
Then all that. I think a lot of that stuff can be very much pivot related and not enough either not enough pivot back but especially not enough pivot through the ball. Interesting. So it lets say you see someone's path. They typically are 3 to the 3 to
the right. But you see them now, going back the other way, it's maybe more towards zero or even the other way you'll look at their pivot first and see if If maybe they're they're not making a bet a fullback swinger full pivot back or is that kind of how you think about that? You know, I think it every every player is different right here.
And so the art of coaching is looking at a guy and they did Shaft and I were talking last night about like, you know, when you have a live lesson in front of you, got, like a minute or two to kind of summarize it in your head and say, hey, this is what we're going to start. And look, sometimes I start with somebody and then I'm like, 15 minutes to do it like that in the right way. I've been shot.
You know, I'm super simple so if I'm trying to get somebody's path, Less in doubt or less out to him, I mean, I like to do things with them, real simple, to let them coach themselves, a little, I like to put a, you know, I've used the Rope a bunch, you've seen me use the rope for the Target line. Have them tee, the ball up on the target line, and put a stick out there. Directly between them and the
Target and let them. I mean a great drill for anybody is to learn Learn to start it right and curve it left start at left and curve it, right? And let them figure out how much of each they need to do to hit whatever shot shape they were, you know, I think a lot of folks can I mean, we're making an assumption here that they've got good grips. They've got a pretty good club face those types of the good posture, and set up ball in the right spot.
But like, I think a lot of people can figure some of this stuff out on their own, if they go out there and they try to curve it right to left, and they try to curb it, left to right with understanding that the draw it, it's The path has to be more into out and it took curve it. The face has two could be close to that path if they want to cut it, it's the opposite and go out there and you know, I'm big on exaggerating.
I mean sometimes when a guy really wants to draw and I'll have them just hit snap Hooks and then I'll say, you know, I know hit a Big Slice. Now try to hit one in the middle doing that and I think if you do that I think you know I think a lot of people can coach themselves. Figure things out on them. Ourselves without us having to fill them with a bunch of information.
Its key. I mean, too many people get so stuck or so concerned about, I've got to stay, you know, if my path is here and that's where I want to be. I got to stay as close to that as I can every single golf shot, you know, all the time because I got to, you know, ingrain that feeling and they missed this part of this awareness so that they can self coach almost, right? Because if you see something happening on the course, or when you're out practicing and you have no Ernest of what it feels
like. When your path goes to the left or to the right or what these things are. You can't can't help yourself which is just tough. Best part about launch monitors his feedback. Right? I think that. So if you do one, correct, you hit your shot, whatever it is, whatever your perfect shot is. I'll have guys say, you know, Lucas is said this. Robbie said, I just want to hit that shot every time. That's, that's the one I want. Well then you could look down and say exactly what was that
path, right. And I think that going even deeper like with things like swing Catalyst. Then you can say, okay, how much did they turn? Where was the pressure? All of those things? You know. I shift path a lot with pressure Trace, right. Like so I have probably had. I mean I probably use that as much trying to change path with some people especially better players as I do anything.
So I'll may work with them on the swing Catalyst and we may you know, you see a guy trying to hit a draw but the pressure he gets it out on the toes, going back and it goes too quick to the left heel. I mean, he probably didn't have a very good chance to hit a draw. So helping them understand where the pressure and weight and all
that stuff. Needs to go, can help a guy and then you put them on the rope and you put a stick out there and have him try to do that and get it to start it right to left. Or, you know, if he's getting way into his heel and running out onto his left toe and he wants to fade it. That's not going to work either. So helping helping folks understand the relationship between that pressure trace and how the body is working along with what the path and the face need to be.
I think if we can educate them, educate the golfer with that and then let them figure it out a little bit. I think they got a better chance to do it on the golf course and a better chance to own it. If they figure a little bit of it out themselves to do, you use your using a launch monitor is like finding the symptom and then you try to look to what's causing that. Is that a little bit how you use it? Well, I mean You know, we're always trying to find the Cause. Right?
Yeah, it's are the main deck. So I mean, I look at all of the stuff mean real, a lot of, it's my eyes. Yeah, I use you know, when I film a guy and it comes into Frederick and he hits I watch him hit and I like to watch somebody hit to when they're out warming up without me being there because they're not trying to do what they think I would want to do and you can watch am just hitting balls and you can watch it. Everything, how much time do they take between ID, malls, everything.
So I like to do that and then you know the so that's the first part of the analysis, then and I think then it's obviously the interviewing of asking them questions about what they're working on, what's the bad shot when they play their best? What what do they do? But then I think there's also but then I like to film them and I like to look at the track man. The quad data and the swing Catalyst data together and
figure out. Like, I mean, Is it just there swinging a little too much out to the right or to the left? Or is it because their pivot is where I don't think it's a Concrete set thing. Like, you always start, I think you have to look at all of the information. Trust your intuition. And I Rely a lot on experiences from other players, things that have worked things, that didn't
work things. I've seen people do and I Rely a lot on things I've learned from observing and watching other great teachers, from all my time with Hank, Johnson, and Mark, Oakwood Wayne Flint the times. I've gone to watch Butch twice. I think it was. And you know, you talk to Billy Harman. Like all of those things Brady rigs like you. Do you try to pick up little tidbits each time that may help you when you get a certain you
know, something? You know you when you get a certain situation, think the key is that there's no set rules like trying to find the cause but I don't know that. Always start in a certain place, necessarily get you there. I think you want to get as much information about the student as you can and then you want to look As much information as you can, in a short time frame and make your assessment. Yep, talking launch monitors here.
How do to our Pros? Use launch monitor data or what's, what's the regular kind of process with whatever money you got? A lot of these younger guys that have grown up with them, right? That get delve, I think delve way more into some of the information and then other players, I think that, if I was to say that, you know, they look the most common things. You here on a range would be, you know, I think your mid the older guys are using a lot of it
for distance. I think during a tournament week, the majority of players are using it to know how far the
ball is going where they are. I think that's the number one thing players are doing, and they want it to be accurate and they want to be easy to set up. So I think that's number one, across the board most of the time, if I'm walking down the range and I'm asking, like, you know, somebody's there and I switch, you'll say, What you do and then I'll just checking my numbers just checking how far it's going.
So I think that's number one and then I think you have guys that monitor their path and their face and their attack, you know attack angle like guys may not like it getting steep or vice versa. So but you know there's a rule I think the more information that the guys use it for probably transpires to be in more of a younger player that's grown up with it. How much does distance and ball speed and clubhead speed change week to week?
Or a month to month, I think distance changes a pretty good bit based on where they are. Hmm, you know I mean especially on the PGA tour, you know they're going to go from Sigrid go from Palm Springs and when it's you know, it's warm in the afternoon, super dry ball goes a long way, but in the morning, they'll hit balls on a track man or a quad or rap soda or whatever it is. They're using to know like man, if if I'd get that 730 time for Exhales balls not going
anywhere. I need to know how far it's not, you know, how much less it's it's going. And then you go from there and you saw the balls going a long way. And then you're going, then you go a few weeks. You go up to Pebble Beach where I'm going to Pebble Beach in February is not always the most Pleasant weather, right? And the ball isn't going anywhere. Yeah. And they need to know how much it's not going anywhere.
So, you know, I think I think there's a lot of variation in distance and I also think that from a golfer listening to me and you I don't think very nearly The very many golfers, I think they say, I, if you ask them, how far you get your seven, I hit 160 yards. I don't think very many folks know, whether that's carry your total. And the difference between hitting their 7-iron 160 yards in July versus February. And, I mean, I see it all the time. Junior golfers are the worst.
I mean, they got 160 and it's 48 degrees and they pull their 79 out, and then they think they're not hitting it any good because it comes up 15 yards. Short of the bunker, right? Mean it's not there. Also use the condition. So I think tour players take so much time and effort to know exactly how far the ball is going using devices.
Whether it's any of those monitors or it's or it's shooting a tree out on the Range and hitting the ball at it and seeing where it goes, right, there's lots of different ways to do it and you don't have to have a launch monitor if you're listening to us, to be able to figure that out. So, but I think that every golfer could benefit from understanding that, how far you hit your 7 and how far you get
your pitching wedge, what? Ever it is is going to change daily weekly, monthly based on conditions. You know and sometimes to distance going down under good conditions is an indication that. Hey, maybe I'm not my pivots not working as good as I needed to be, or something's off, right? It gives us a highway feel like, or physically my back's. Not moving is good. My hips aren't turning this good, whatever.
And it lets us go. Okay, well, you need to go do some stuff with Colby in the gym because your hips are moving enough because you're not carrying it quite as much. But I mean, are you watching Club head speed? Ball speed as well for you. Just looking at distance numbers typically to watch a little bit of Club head speed involves beat mean. I'm not like a junkie. Like I mean there's some guys that's all they focus on right and there's great teachers that that's what they're always
looking at mean. I think it's incredibly important now and I've got some young guys, young kid, Justin Burrows, that hammers it right. I got some young guys that hammered but I mean, I'm more like, is the ball going where they wanted to go in the distance there? Trying to hit it. I think in the end that's the most Important part for making a living. I think most of those guys hit it far enough like driver distances is key, right? But like are they hitting it?
Be a most of those guys, hit it far enough. Now, if you ever found that someone has like, hey, your Club head speed is down a little bit here this week. Like, what what's up, do? We have a physical like something going on physically. Yeah, at the u.s. open at Wingfoot. Lucas was not hitting it well, on Monday, Tuesday, Monday, in particular ball wasn't going as far not. As far. But it wasn't like, it wasn't starting online.
This, that and the other and I was asking to do the things we've been doing and it turned out, I mean, it was more physical, he flunked cross-country to get their hips weren't moving. He did a bunch of work with Colby every night, getting treatment and he, you know, he finished 15th 17th or something. The US Open and was way up there in ball striking through, you know, through 54 holes. So, yeah, I mean, I think with really good player.
Hers. It's more likely something physical than it is just something totally going wrong in their golf swing. Hmm. What kind of Tolerance should I give myself, right? If I'm gonna go out and I'm going to do some, do some testing, I want to find out some distances like what should I be looking for with distance? So let's say I'm hit an 8-iron and it goes, I hit one, you know, 155 and then hit 1168 and then I hit 1160, like, what kind of ranges do you like to see?
Because I know, A lot of people see really big ranges, right of? Yeah, they're not good ball Striker so they hit one, a little fat and it goes 150. And then they pure one and it goes 168. And then they're like real shit. How about, you know, like what's going on? How far do I hit this thing? So that's where I think one you wear to work on contact. What's in your golf swing?
Not giving you consistent contact or the same contact every time and you know another thing to I mean and not like I'm not a huge fitting Geet but some of the equipment out there that's built to help recreational golfer. Hit it Further isn't as consistent with how far the ball flies, right? Mean, ball jumps more comes out without spin those types of things. I mean, I find that, you know, I went through this phase where this is funny. I mean, like I was playing a
little bit. This is a couple few years back and I decided to order some irons that were stronger and had light graphite shafts, because I wanted to hit it further right? Well, hell, I mean, you know, I normally hit my wedge 130. I mean, I flew a green with a wedge went like 150. And then the next time I went 135 because it's like, you know, that was a you know so like that's great for a guy that's 65 or 70 the or 55 that needs a bunch of distance.
But I think also there's trade-offs when you do some of those things fitting wise, it give you the opportunity to have some distance. You also have to understand that a lot of times, I think you're giving up some distance control that one could be in there. Let's end with this. So let's say I want to take some of those tactics that to oppose are using getting my yardages. In check, what's kind of your process for that? How many balls do I need to hit?
Do I throw out ones that I hit badly? Like how do I figure out? Give us a practical step that I can go do to kind of figure out how to dial in my distances a little bit. If I want to block this one thing is you want to do it in a minimum number of all's.
I see folks, hit a shitload of balls and there you know then they get to the five iron and they've hit 70 balls and they're tired and I don't think those numbers are very accurate and I think the Same thing happens with driver fitting and driver testing. And I've seen that on tour guys are, you know, they whatever a driver isn't going well or their drivers non-conforming whatever and they get three bags of
balls. And I don't know that you're getting very accurate data after you've hit three bags of balls, right? Because you're fatigued and you never do that on the golf course. When do you hit 10 drivers in a row on the golf course you don't ever do it. So I think the less number of balls you could do it. And so I like to do with, I just tell folks, Is that come to see me?
You know, obviously there's, you know, these launch monitors, which are fantastic, but I think one key would be to do it. In Les. Paul's hit three four balls with each Club. You throw up your throw out the bad ones like if I chunk it a little bit but want to know how far do I hit my two or three average shots. Like that's a good one. That's pretty average. That's good and know what those are. I mean if I chunk when I don't know that that helps you a whole lot, right? Yeah.
Mean you're not clubbing. Yourself based On the aspect of the prospect that you could chunk, 150 yards, some will climb up. Six clubs in case I chunk it. So, you know, I think you want to know what your average I always ask folks, I, hey, is that what you would call pretty good? When if you hit that on the golf course, would you free pretty happy with it? And then we like yeah that was pretty good. Okay, well that went 156, the so-called 156.
You hit these other two and it went 152 and 159. So I mean that's my variation. And I think it's different based on people so I try to do it with fewer ball. Al's get them, to be honest the dummy we like to be hit it on the golf course will be pretty happy with it. And then also I mean I'll tell folks like why don't you run out on the golf course you're practicing and go to a par 3 where you you know and shoot the yardage and hit a sleeve of balls. Go up there and see where they
land and the market, you know? And just walk off the distance difference from what the pain that you shot mean. I think doing some stuff real life on the golf course, may give you better data or Gametime situation stuff of what's happening because there's bunkers there, there's water there. There's when, you know, and you can factor that stuff in last thing before we go. I remember one more, I've been trying to do some training with like, launch angle trying to hit windows and try to be
consistent. There's that word again with that and I've found that super challenging. I'm curious your thoughts on kind of like trying to control launch angle and stuff because I think that most golfers aren't very consistent with what their impact position is, right?
You know, with the shaft Lean and you know, and there's all different thoughts about how much of its good and all that stuff but I think you've got again, go back to contact, getting the low point to be consistent and getting your impact position, whatever is ideal for you and you and your teacher can figure that out argue about it with other teachers, whatever that needs to be.
But you need to be getting close to the same, the low point in the same spot and the same impact conditions, more of the time, and then, you can hit Windows. That's why tour players are good. Their impact conditions and positions are very The same throughout the bag and throughout the shot so they can control how the ball comes out. But if you're if you don't have a good pivot and you don't get the club to the same low point and the shafts not at the same position each time.
I mean, you're probably not going to have the ball come out the same window every day. Ya know, I find it. I mean, it's very revealing when you just look at that. Yeah, for sure. It's also. One of the harder things to teach young players is like mean to learn to hit Windows because they got to get better at certain things in their golf swing to do. Yep. Tony thanks for hanging out. Thanks buddy, I appreciate it. As always look forward to talk to you soon.