¶ Introduction to Plant Medicine
Different plants, different voices, and different ways of having conversations. It's time to get personal with plant medicine. Welcome to Getting Personal with Plant Medicine. I'm your host, Diana Krash, and today I'm joined by the lovely Mackenzie McCotter. Did I say your name right? Yes. We usually just call her Mackenzie, but you know, we're going to say the full name today. That's a cool name, actually. Thank you.
And I'm really excited to have her today because we don't usually get the younger perspective. So that's what we're going to do today by going down a little journey of your experience with plant medicine. So why don't you start with how or when and why you began using cannabis? So when I was about a freshman in high school, that is when I started like dabbling in it. But that was mostly just for fun. My friends were older. I wanted to be cool.
But then I started to realize that it was helping a lot with my schoolwork. On top of the ADHD medication I was on, it was adding to my focus. Instead of giving me jitters all day, I was more relaxed and able to sit down and do my classwork. And I was doing better in school. Awesome. So you were just basically like using it for fun, but you weren't really thinking about how it could apply to your everyday life until you started to notice some differences.
How are you able to tell that that was different from your medication, though? Because... ADHD medicine kind of gives you the jitters and like sends you all over the place kind of. I feel like I was able to like actually sit down and focus on one thing at a time instead of jumping from like one thing to the next, the next and not getting anything done. So you think it helped like in addition to your medicine you were taking?
That's awesome. So you have a very unique story about how your parents gave you cannabis and you had already taken it at this point, right? But yes, limited experience with edibles, right? So what happened to make them give you an edible? So I had my gallbladder removed when I was 17 and the surgery was fine. And then I woke up and I found out that I had slight allergy or sensitivity to anesthesia.
So I was throwing up uncontrollably and a lot of pain. I mean, they tried like six different nausea medications at the hospital before sending me on my way because there was nothing else they could do. And then I couldn't keep the pain medication down. I couldn't keep water down. And my mom was like panicking. She wanted to take me back to the hospital. And my dad was like, well, we haven't tried this. Let's give it a try. And I was able to eat and go to sleep without being in
so much pain. How did they talk to you about it? They just told me, they were like, like, did they already know that you had tried it is what I mean? Yes. They knew that I was already kind of into it. They were like, this is strong. Don't eat the whole thing. Just see if it works. If it does, we'll keep giving you them throughout the week until you're healed. So they made it like comfortable for you to be able to talk about it. Yes.
That's awesome. And they were very like, we'll leave these out in the freezer for you. And when you feel it starting to wear off just grab another one and they were also more against the pain medication like they didn't want me to take too many of those so I only took like two or three of them out of the two weeks that I had them for and I mostly recovered with edibles and I recovered pretty quickly.
Wow it's such a difference from a conversation we had in an earlier episode with someone who was Holly of Utopia Herbs. Her parents were growing cannabis for years and selling it and were keeping it secret from her. But when she had a surgery and then she had a similar situation, she was very sick. She couldn't handle the pain medication.
Then finally, her parents told her about what they were doing and gave her an edible and it It changed everything, and now she sells edibles, but it was much later in life, and you were able to talk to your parents about it, what was it, in high school? Yes. What happened? Middle school, actually. Middle school. Because I, so, my dad actually, you know. I can't even imagine. Sorry.
I like thinking in middle school how my parents were like, not to cut you off, but just like, they wouldn't even let me hang out with friends that they knew. They were against me doing it, but they were very open with me about like, hey, this helps people. We give this to your grandfather and it helps him. And my grandfather was like, he was dying. He was not doing well. And I'm convinced that he stayed around a lot longer because he was actually able to eat with edibles. And he was like.
Gave him a quality of life. Gave him a little more of a quality of life. And he was more comfortable in his last few months. That's amazing. So, like, generationally, your family was able to, like, kind of move past these ridiculous stereotypes. They were more open about marijuana, too, because... They wanted me to know, like, hey, this isn't bad. Just maybe hold off on doing that until you feel a little ready. And they did not discuss psilocybin with me until I was like 17, 18.
Yeah, I mean, that's a little bit more of a difficult conversation. Yes. I mean, I love to hear that because you were able to not only have the conversation with them, but you were able to see how it helped your grandfather. father. You know, I mean, that is really powerful. Oh, yeah. And it's helped tons of elderly family members around the house. Yeah. I mean, not in your house, in your family. Oh, yeah. And my family. Amazing.
We would just we would keep giving it to them and they would, you know, have a better quality of life in their last little bit of time that they had. Yeah, that's amazing. Wow. So So the majority of your high school experience was overshadowed by the pandemic. And I don't think that, you know, a lot of us can understand that experience. I'm saying a lot of us. I'm broad stroking. But, you know, older folks can't even wrap their heads around what that possibly could be. I've tried many times.
It's a whole new world, right? How did that impact your view of plant medicine? And because, I mean, just in the story you told me, obviously you're able to talk about it more in your family and you're at home, but you're not dealing with the quote unquote traditional peer pressure, for lack of a better word. Maybe you are, but it's in a different kind of a way.
The start of the pandemic was very rough for me because two weeks before the shutdown and before schools closed and everything happened, a friend of mine passed away. And that was very hard and then being alone suddenly very abruptly yeah was very hard, So I kind of stuck more towards, okay, I'm going to get my schoolwork done. I'm going to smoke a little bit and then I'm going to write. And that will be my outlet. That will be how I calm my mind in this very hectic time period.
Because I was terrified. I was like, oh, my God, are we all going to die? Like, what's going on? Yeah. Yeah. And. Like, I knew how that felt as an adult. I can't even imagine.
Because you're hovering in between this space you're still a kid but you're dealing with very adult things and you're going towards adulthood and I mean yeah that is intense oh yeah and that was around the time I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression too and I noticed that I did not like any antidepressants or anti-anxiety medications they made me feel very zombie like And the only thing that really just like calmed my mind
for a second was either like a half of an edible or smoking a little bit because it was just very relaxing. But like mild doses, that's the more important thing. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's really mild doses of the cannabis is what you're talking about. Yes. Yeah. Yes. It is difficult to do that, especially during times of tragedy, times of grief, all of these times. It's very easy to come up with reasons to overmedicate. Oh, yeah. And I know I've done it. I do it still.
I mean, you know, I'll look for any excuse sometimes like, oh, I'm having a rough day, you know. There are acceptable times when it's like, okay. Yeah. Maybe a little bit more than usual and then, yeah, that I'm good. But it can be a slippery slope for some people. Oh, yeah. Or for a lot of people, I should say. So how do you navigate that then? How did you figure out what to do when you were using it? Because did you even have drug education in school? I know D.A.R.E. still exists.
People say it doesn't, but it does. I looked it up. It's not where we are in Harford County, but it's in every other county in Maryland. So, yeah, I'm curious to hear what was your experience with that? So my last year of health class was my freshman year, and that was about like five or six years ago. And it was more leaning towards negative effects of marijuana and that it was more of a gateway drug and like to be careful with it.
Yeah. Which, I wonder what they're teaching now, that it's legalized. Probably the same thing. Probably. And I had very different education at home. I was taught that it is a medicine and that it is meant to help people. So I was very like, hmm, why are we being taught this one way? And then at home I'm being told something else. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, I mean, like, what did your friends say about it? I mean, did you have any kind of...
Discussions with them or just like let's go smoke together.
¶ Family Dynamics and Cannabis Conversations
One of my closest friends actually me and her kind of had similar ways because she was like, she was with me during the time when my grandfather was going downhill my parents weren't home a lot so we kind of had limited access to the edibles. But we we would talk about it we'd be like be like why do you have so many of these I'd be like, well, we give them to my grandfather, but the spare ones that he doesn't like, we keep here just in case he needs more. Oh, wow.
So is everybody in your house using them pretty much? Oh, yeah. I mean, I bet that made your family get along so much better and probably like recognize things about each other that you didn't before. Like, I can only imagine if that was my family. I can tell you, me and my siblings get along much better when we're using cannabis together.
That's when me and my sisters actually started getting along better because I was I was a little brat when I was like 13 I was angsty and angry and you know I wanted emo yeah oh yeah was that was that that's probably you're too even young for emo I don't know what is your generation called emo alternative alternative turn it in. All right. So anyway, so it helped with your sister's relationships.
Oh, yeah. When I was about like 15 to 16, that's when they started getting more comfortable smoking with me and all that. So that's when we would like go on car rides and actually like get closer with each other and have like, hey, we're not so different conversations. Yeah.
Yeah i know it's amazing the things that you because it does make your mind open up and more bendy i like to say oh yeah so you start to like recognize things about yourself about other people at least i do i'm not sure that it's across the board that way but what about with your parents like do they how did that affect the way they communicate with you and your sisters So my dad, he does not do it, but he's a big supporter of it. He just doesn't like the way it makes him feel anymore. Yeah.
Which, it happens. Yeah. It changes over time. My mom, very occasional. And I remember the first time me and her smoked together, I was like overcome with so much happiness. I was like, oh my God, this is the moment. We're going to have a bonding experience. And she was like, don't, don't talk, don't talk. She said, the bonding is in your mind. It's in your mind. Keep it to yourself.
But it did make all of us get along better. And growing up, like, I look back now to when I was like six, seven, all of the parents being all giggly and there would be no alcohol around.
So I just look back I'm like wow they were having a great time oh that's awesome so like you didn't even see any excessive drinking or anything like that no not a lot of drinking in my house mostly just you know the occasional every other weekend we'd go to a friend's party and yeah the kids would go out parents would do their own thing and then they'd come back a lot happier yeah.
I mean that's what's up and of course they would try to like be like we'd be like what's that smell and they'd be like nothing don't worry about it go play and as we got older they were like yeah of course of course we were yeah right i mean that's so cool though you have to be honest with your kids oh yeah that's what keeps them from i mean you didn't like go digging through their stash or anything like that because you knew that they were using it and they told you about it Yeah.
And they were very matter of fact about it and more receptive to sharing with me. They were like, I'd rather you get this for me than getting a street cart or getting, you know, stuff that you shouldn't be getting. Yeah. Is that like a cartridge from the streets? Oh, yeah. And they are really terrible for you. Street cart. We're learning so many things. People. I mean, that's where we would get a good word for it, though.
So street cart. I'm thinking of trash cans, which are also, that's a different kind of drug. That's a lot of different. Have you heard of a crack wire? No. You cut up a charger and you take, if you don't have a battery for a cart, you hit the cart through the charger. How? How does that even work? You like break the charger in half and just use the wires inside of the charger. I don't know if that would work for me. I think I'd probably wind up electrocuting myself.
It's a very unpleasant experience. It hits 10 times harder. But when we were like 14, 15, it's not like we could just walk into a tobacco stop and be like, we want a battery, please. Yeah, that's true. That's right. So like your generation's more about vaping. Oh, yeah. And unfortunately, it got me to for a time. Yeah, yeah, because it's harder to track when you're using the vape. Oh, yeah. Unfortunately.
So tell me more about that, like how you and your friends, like you plant medicine, like we already talked about that a little bit. But how do you think your generation and younger generations are changing the way that they look at plant medicine and plant medicine? You know, because like you said, over the last few years, things have changed a lot. I mean, legalization has changed, at least where we are. But does that really impact the attitude overall?
In my opinion, no, it doesn't. I have not really met that out in the world yet. I've not seen a growing acceptance. I'm still seeing a lot of fear, a lot of hushed conversations. You know, people aren't really ready to be 100% public, in my opinion. I notice like a 50-50. Like it depends with who you're raised. If you're raised in a family where it's like, you're a pothead, that's terrible. Like they're going to be terrified of that.
Not always, though. My one friend, they were super against it, but she every day. And eventually she had to stop because of college and other stuff. But she kind of switched to drinking, which isn't any better.
So I feel like our generation less scared because I feel like we got more like hey I'm smoking and less scared of where we were doing it too I feel like we kind of just went wherever we wanted when we were younger and my sister who's 10 years older than me was like are you kidding me we had to be so careful everywhere we went to smoke because if you got caught oh my gosh yeah Yeah, I know. I mean, I've done some bold things, but that was as an adult in high school.
I mean, I, you know, I did some, we would smoke out of the soda cans and stuff like that, like stupid stuff. But it was always like in deep in the woods or like at somebody's house whose parents were literally never home. Those kind of things. We never just like did it outside. I mean, that's a lie. Okay. If it was a concert or a festival. Yeah. Different story. But I think people are a little bit more emboldened to use it.
I don't know. It's weird because it's like I am smelling it a lot more in the neighborhoods now. I'm seeing people use it outside, even though it's not necessarily...
Legal oh yeah but having conversations about it i feel like people are still a little completely yeah like they'll go home and use it oh yeah but are they they don't want to like advertising it no oh no which i think is like it's it's almost pretty much completely legalized everywhere well not everywhere in the u.s it's becoming widely yeah 36 states i think now so yeah the majority, sure, have at least some medical program or something in effect.
So, oh, yeah, I just really wish it was translating to children's education. I mean, you deal with children all the time because that's how I know you. She helps with my tiny human. And you're so you're you're in that space a lot.
¶ Navigating Plant Medicine in Youth
And, you know, starting really young is where we need to start. But but what are they having i want to teach like the young young ones but i feel like i learned at a pretty solid age like 12 13 like i learned like hey this is what we do for our family and it works and it helps but you're probably noticing it younger than that though oh yeah i was like it was more hidden because we were so young our parents like didn't even want us to know they smoke cigarettes. Right. So like...
Of course, they would come back stoned and we'd be like, our parents are real funny right now. But for the most part, like, you know, that's just how we grew up and we were it was very normal. I don't know. I mean, what would your advice be for parents now in this day and age? I mean, you're about to be one yourself. So what do you think could be changed in that that atmosphere when they're young? Like, because that's a big thing that we do on this podcast.
We talk about how to talk to kids about a variety of plant medicines because they're all becoming a lot more popular now, not just cannabis. And we're going to get to another one very soon. But like, you know, as you know, the mushrooms and the all of them are becoming a lot more popular for a variety of reasons. And so, you know, children pay attention to everything.
They notice everything. everything so how do we change the way that conversation goes in the future since the future is supposed to be a new space where we're going to embrace all of these types of plant medicine i feel like i am going to not like introduce it but like be honest about what it is when they're young if i feel like seven is a good age where they can understand like hey this is still considered It's considered a drug,
but it is also used as medicine and people use it for fun sometimes. People, it's important to do it responsibly and at the right age. See, that gets confusing too, not to cut you off, but we give our son CBD, as you know, because he's autistic. And so my thing is, you know, telling kids that you can try it at a certain age, And it also conflicts with how a growing number of children are using CBD. I feel like CBD is a lot different.
Yeah, it is. It is. But also just like opening up that conversation, you know, being like, you might need to use it in a different way than I use it. Yeah. And a lot of children do in small doses. Like, I've read a lot of articles about children using marijuana in small doses, especially children with autism, that, like... They can't sleep at night or they're having difficulties in certain areas, it helps and they get medical cards at a young age because they need it.
And that's a whole different discussion. It's very hard to determine what the right age is because... Yeah, because there's also a lot of different levels of understanding and learning difficulties.
Difficulties and you know it's it is definitely complex there's no right answer and I wasn't expecting you to have one I just like to open up the conversation about it just because I think that having these conversations are important because we have to start looking at all the different ways that this that plant medicine intersects with our lives oh yeah and teaching that to kids I mean One of the biggest, easiest ways, I think, is growing with them. Growing something with them.
I'm not saying growing cannabis, but growing plants. Plants, vegetables, anything. One day they are going to start asking questions, and it's good to be in an environment where they feel safe asking those kind of questions. I want my child to come to me when they're 12 or 13 like I was and be like, Hey, I noticed this. Yes. What are your thoughts on it? Yeah. Me just give them an honest answer. Right. And if you don't know, look it up together.
Yeah. I mean, my parents would be like, go look in the dictionary. That was their answer for pretty much everything. I'm kidding. Or they would say, go to the library, get a book out. And that did work, you know. I mean, even Sesame Street. I'm thinking of Grant. He says, we look it up, you know.
But doing it together I think is important Instead of just saying Go read a book about it I want to be able to give this information to you Because I feel like, it'll mean a little bit more coming from a parent and a parent working with you to figure it out than you're doing it on your own. Good job with that. I just thought about how she was able to get our son to try some new fruit and she brought in different flavors and let him try that.
And that's a very great, that's a great way to illustrate how plant medicine works. It's just being like, look at these different things and what they can do. You know, this is something thing that came from the ground. It might be a lotion now, but it started as a plant, you know? And I know you've also done a lot of other really cool activities like growing plants with the kids. Oh, yeah.
¶ Exploring Psychedelics: Psilocybin and Beyond
And that's really important. So switching gears a little bit. Now, it's not technically plant medicine. It's earth medicine. But for the purposes of this podcast, we lump it under that. That you mentioned psilocybin earlier. So what is your experience with that and other psychedelic mushrooms? So I've had, for the most part, very pleasant experiences. I can't remember a time that I had very bad experiences with it. And I was very honest with my parents about it before I did it too.
That was the most important thing. What was that? What did you say? I was It's terrified because, like, one of my friends was like, have you done mushrooms before? And I was like, absolutely not. I'm terrified. He was like, well... I have some if you want some, if you want to try them with one of your friends. And I said, I'll take them. And I went to... Who said this? Your dad? No, one of my friends. Like, whoa. Your parents are very progressive. No, one of my friends.
And it was the chocolate bars that I really like. Okay. And that's what started me, like, getting on that chocolate bar cake. Yeah. I went to my parents and I showed them. I was like, have you heard of these? Are these okay?
Are these safe? and he like examined the whole box and was like he was like yeah i think these are okay and i was like have you done mushrooms before and he was like yes and we had like a very long discussion i was like what do i need to know what should i do how should i prepare he's like go to a really cool spot outside do not drive i will come pick you up if you need stock up on snacks stock up on a lot of water and Gatorade for electrolytes. And just, just enjoy yourself.
Bring one good, trusted person with you. And if they want to do it too, bring a third person to watch you. And we didn't end up needing the third person because we were shockingly very calm. And the experience was great. I was in like a very, I don't know, point in my life. I was 16.
I was in a weird relationship with somebody and having that experience with one of my best friends someone I was in diapers with like it was a very eye-opening moment and the same thing I kind of left it alone after that stopped taking mushrooms didn't really think about it for a few years, and then this year I went to one of my favorite stores saw that they had the chocolate bars and I was like oh my gosh I am going to have such a good night I got two chocolate bars me and my friend each
ate a whole one I don't recommend doing that if you've never done it and this was right after like a really bad breakup too of like my longest relationship and I was very just very sad which you probably shouldn't do mushrooms when you're sad but it helped me so No. It depends. I mean, honestly, it really depends on what you're trying to get out of the experience, I'd say. If you're like super depressed, it's probably not a great idea.
But if you're just sad, it can kind of, in my opinion, if your intention is to get out of the sadness and, you know, focus on what's good in your life, it can really help. That was more of the intention. My intention was also to be like, what do I need to know? Like, what can I learn from this experience?
I'm going to sit down with myself and just and i actually spoke with um who was the one lady at that one event oh leslie draffin who's also been in previous episodes yes i had a an appointment with her and we discussed microdosing and discussed like safeties of how many times a year you should do a full trip because i had no idea about any of that my parents didn't really know either when my dad was younger he was you know grateful dead person so he was you know dabbling in that stuff quite a
bit he was just like i don't know however much you feel dead person is he a dead head yeah that's what they call themselves i don't know i never got into grateful death so he you know he had his fair share of fun times with that but when i asked him i was like what's a safe amount to do in a year and he was like i don't know don't do it to a jillion i'm just joking he was like i wouldn't go too far, but I don't know the exact answer to that. Yeah.
So when I talked to her, I was able to get like a more steady answer. And she was like, you should not do it more than four times a year. And I was like, well, I exceeded my limit. Was she talking about like a macro dose, like a big dose? Oh yeah. Like a big dose, like one of those cool chocolate bars. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But instead I was like, okay, well let's talk about micro dosing. I would like to try that and see if it helps with, like on top of my other medications.
And I told her, I already spoke to my doctor about like, if it's safe to take with the medications I'm already on. She was very happy about that. She was like, that's a good step. If it's safe, I say do it twice a week in like, like the chocolate bar has 20 pieces. Take two pieces twice a week and then you should be fine. And the chocolate bar is a different kind of mushroom. I don't know exactly what kind it is, but I think it's, I don't know if it's legal here.
I think it's Amanita, which is, which is legal. Yes, it is. Okay. That's the one I was thinking of.
And yeah but I've had I've also experienced you know regular psilocybin mushrooms and they were they were also very good but it's also important to like it's a great feeling it's really great in the moment and it's important to enjoy the trip but also don't do full dose every day don't go overboard with it because my friend she did have an experience with that where she was like calling out of work to take mushrooms every day and she went into psychosis because I guess
it was too much that can happen yeah yeah you really have to be careful which is why I'm glad that I asked like what what is the right amount before I should stop with the full doses in a year. Yeah, well, I'm glad you did that. I'm so proud of you. Not like you asked, but, you know, just telling you. That is awesome. I love how you were able to tell your doctor honestly about your experience. She was very intrigued by it, too. I love that. Yeah.
Give me your name after we're done. Because I never had that experience. I'm like, what doctor is this?
¶ Educating the Next Generation on Plant Medicine
Anyway, so we already kind of went over this, but just Before we end, what do you think is missing when it comes to educating children about plant medicine? I feel like they're so focused on being told not to do it and instead not taught the safe ways to do it. I feel like drinking is what they teach more safety about for kids. And parents will be like, okay, you can drink, but don't drive, don't do too much, make sure you eat.
Like, yeah, all of that is important, but it's also as marijuana and psilocybin are becoming more acceptable in society, they should also be taught like. Hey, don't go overboard with it. There is such thing as too much. And that goes for every drug. And also, you know, making sure that you're in a good space for it. Like, really focus on how your body is feeling. Because what works for some people might not work for you. Like, me personally, I had to stop smoking after I turned 20.
Because I just... You just turned 20. I turned 20 in January, but it was like right in January I stopped. I'm like, wait a minute. End of 19, early 20. Okay. But you stopped smoking because why? I was just getting super anxious. And it's because, you know, in my previous relationship, I was waking up in the morning smoking. And then I would be smoking throughout the day.
I would just you know get really anxious too and I kind of was like that's just me being anxious but then I realized like no I'm overdoing it I need a break yeah and now I need a longer break because I'm right but I will come back to it eventually I just I feel like I needed time to like get it out of my system so that I can restart and have healthy tolerance and healthy the knowledge on what's the safer way to go about it. Absolutely. I love that.
Well, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. This podcast has been a product of Your Highness Media. Each episode is written, produced, and edited by Your Highness Media. Music.