What’s Really Sexy (and Nobody Talks About It)

Welcome to Gay Men Going Deeper, a podcast by the Gay Men's Brotherhood that showcases raw and real conversations about personal development, mental health, and sexuality from an unapologetically gay perspective. I'm your host, Michael DiIorio, and today I'm joined by Matt Lenskill and Reno Johnston. Today we are talking about what's really sexy that nobody talks about.

This episode is a love letter to real attraction, the stuff that's actually sexy, that doesn't fit the typical conventional gay checkboxes. But this still makes you melt. And so what we want you to get out of this episode is to expand that tiny, narrow little definition of sexy that has become so normalized in the gay world. And we're going to open it right up and recognize that whatever your age or race.

body type or features, you are sexy too. But before we begin, a reminder that this podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported. So if you enjoy what we're creating, you can support the community by making a donation using the link in the show notes.

You could also tap on that thanks button on YouTube to show the podcast some love. All right. Last episode, for those who didn't listen to it, I recommend you go back and listen to it. We talked about how to survive in a culture of body perfection. So this is...

a response to that episode, okay? And one of the things that pisses me off in the gay culture, we might have talked about this last time, is how narrow and unrealistic our definition of hot has become. And most of the time... As we discovered, it's not even real. These things are heavily filtered, airbrushed, enhanced in this era of AI. And in my opinion, I tend to see right through it, and it's pretty boring for me personally. And yet, it's impossible to avoid.

Social media keeps bashing me over the head with it. I sometimes think Instagram has just labeled me as gay and it just thinks it knows what I want to see because of that. Yet it's not really what I'm interested in. So I keep getting bashed over the head with these norms. And yes, like we talked about last time, I do buy into it. We do buy into it in some ways, which is the power of socialization when we're subtly taught to believe.

that certain bodies and certain looks are the truth of attraction, but in fact, they're just conventions. They're not always reality. So I'm not here to deny that beauty standards don't exist. Of course, beauty standards do exist not just for gays, but all over society. But that doesn't make them true for everyone all the time. And this is where...

I think a lot of people go wrong. I am blessed with a perspective, and Matt and Reno as well, that most listeners don't have. I talk to guys all day in my one-on-one coaching. I facilitate groups.

in my personal life i'm very much you guys know this in the gay worlds i'm in it i'm immersed in it go to the gay gym i live in the gay village my social life is a lot of gay guys and so i have conversations with real gay men all the time real deep stuff okay And when I talk about attraction and types and turn-ons, whenever the conversation goes there, whether it's professional or personal, I'm going to say 90% of the time, what people are actually attracted to is nothing like...

what porn and social media would have you believe, which is very important. It tells me something very important that attraction is personal. Clearly it's nuanced, it's wide, and it's not as hierarchical as maybe. society would have us believe. And that's what we need to talk about today. So this episode is dedicated to the real sexy, the overlooked sexy, the everyday sexy, the unconventionally sexy.

The things that turn us on, even though maybe the algorithm keeps pushing us the same old stuff that maybe we like it, maybe we don't, but it's really an answer to that. And it dawned on me while I was... thinking about this today, that what we call unconventional.

is actually just unmarketed. And so that's what we're going to do today. We're going to give this a marketing job. It's going to be a little sales job and all the things that maybe social media and porn does not do a good job of marketing as sexy. One caveat before we begin, this is not... conversation of, hey, these are flaws, but we love them anyway. No, no, no, no, no. This is a celebration of everything that exists outside of that algorithm, outside of the convention.

not as a second rate, not as a consolation prize, but as things that actually make someone sexy as fuck, okay? All right. Last week...

As I said, I definitely recommend you go back and listen to that episode. If you are just getting on on this one, go back, listen to that one, then join us because we talked about letting go of the pressure to have a perfect body. And this week is about celebrating what's real.

And if you follow my work, you know that I get super jazzed about this topic. So I'm really excited to get into it. So let's go with our first question. And let's start with Matt. What is something that you think is actually sexy?

That not enough people talk about. Doesn't get enough love. I think off the top. I want to say that I am. Very much attracted. More attracted to men who. Like don't. know they're attractive or they don't act like they're attractive or they don't use their attraction or their attractability as a currency. So there's a lot of humility in the guys that I'm attracted to.

But yeah, this was an interesting question. I was thinking, I'm like, what are these things? But then I was looking to... It was right here. These are all the things I'm attracted to anyways, because usually... The things that I'm very much drawn to are not the mainstream things. Like I'm not really attracted to abs or, you know, big pecs or these sorts of things. It's just not really what gets me going. So, but so I came up with five.

Let's hear it. Five things. So the first one is Crooked Smiles. The guy off of, I can never remember his name. The guy off of This Is Us. Yeah. Milo Ventimiglia. Yes. Okay. I agree. Oh my God. Melt my heart. He is super sexy. So yes, definitely crooked smiles. Hands. Hands do not get enough airtime because they're probably for me they're the number one.

erogenous like thing like when I'm when I'm on a date with a guy and I'm watching him work with his hands and like you know he talks with his hands and his hands are like masculine and he's got like nice nails and these sorts of things like it's just such a turn-on for me so Hands are right up there as the number one, I think. Blushing. I think it's so adorable. The guy that I was just dating would blush when I would say sweet things to him.

It was just so cute. It's so adorable when guys blush. Because there is an element of humility in that, right? There's something about that. The way a guy walks. is is very can be very attractive for me like the way he carries his body there's not one type of walk that i look for i think everyone has their own unique walk um i would say probably the only one that i'm not attracted to would be like a frumpy walk right like guys that are frumpy

but I like someone that carries themselves. You can tell they're carrying their weight, right? There's something very attractive about that. And then this one I'm not sure about, but because I... You know, I like the berries just as much as I like the twig, if you know what I mean. So balls would be one that I just don't think get enough airtime, or at least I don't hear people saying like, oh, like balls are such a turn on. But I think for me, balls are like just...

There's something really, really sexy about a nice pair of balls. I love those. I was so curious. I was going to ask you, what's a sexy walk?

um but yeah you kind of named it a bit i'm trying to like someone who like lumbers there's like a lot of guys that like either lumber or they're like stiff they walk very stiffly yeah like is that is that part of it or is it more of like a i think probably

yeah it wouldn't be like a sachet i'm not talking about that kind of walk it'd be more of like a masculine kind of um but some hip i like some hip but not too too swishy because it's like it feels like you're trying like when you're a little too swishy um but it's not a trying walk it's somebody that just walks normally like that and they're just maybe guys that are um

Like, you know, I watch hockey and I'm like, so hockey players, when you see them on TV, like jock, like they kind of walk with, they're just, you can tell that they've, they've got some muscle in their glutes and they, you know, like, I guess that would be.

what i'm drawn to you know matt you have a walk right you have a walk you got a bit of a sachet in those hips yeah you definitely have a signature walk i can i can i've only met you a few times but i can distinctly remember your walk yeah I'm so curious about how you walk, Michael. I haven't seen it yet. I can't describe it. How does Michael walk now? You walk quick.

yeah michael walks fast yeah does he have a stache maybe a bit like i think you and i's walk might be a little similar i think mine is a little bit because i've got pretty tight hips so my feet turn out a little bit i have a bit of like a um like a duck walk in a way maybe i don't know it's good i think it's funny i i don't know how i walk but one day right now you'll have to let me know i know i gotta come i gotta come watch you work give me some notes yeah

All right, Rina, what about you? What are some of those traits that you find attractive that don't get enough airtime and love? Well, I like someone who's a bit like, like someone who's a bit off. When I say that. Like Jeffrey Dahmer off? No. Although, you know, I shouldn't say this. I really shouldn't say this. But I mean, kind of. But just someone who's like... I remember identifying a crush on Sheldon from Big Bang Theory. What is it? What do you call that? What does he have?

like autism or well they don't stay in the show but right neurodivergent yeah yeah exactly and i just like i find that really hot someone who's just like a little a little strange a little quirky You know, sometimes I'll even joke that, like, I probably shouldn't say this. There's nobody who, like... Yeah, I'm not even going to say it. It's too provocative. But anyway, someone who's just like a little quirky, a little off, I think that that's really hot.

what do you find hot about that like how does that show up um yeah i guess there's something about like uniqueness to me uh you know i'm realizing like i think about some of the guys that i've been into even and they're they're often and the ones I dated in particular they're like a little bit nerdy or they're just um they're like um these like rare finds and

I just, there's something really beautiful about that. And I also love like appreciating them, you know, and how they, how they sort of like sparkle. in in that even more yeah it's it's something it's something about that that i i really appreciate um i i also like a guy i i've noticed i like a guy who's just like a little bit a little bit ratty like um yeah yeah yeah what does that mean what does that mean um like kind of skinny kind of gangly cut like a little bit scruffy um

There was a guy I met recently, so cute, but yeah, he had like this scruffy sort of skinny, like somewhat ratty look to him. And also he was like... again that quirkiness like just he had this funny way of communicating where he would kind of fumble over his words but he was like really really smart and kind of awkward and I was like that's hot um and then

I love feet. I do. I love feet. And someone asked me about this the other day. They're like, what do you love about feet? And I was like, well, I also love hands, right? And I was like, well, they mentioned that they love hands. And I said, well, what do you love about hands? I was like, probably.

The same thing that I love about feet in a way is what you love about hands, but there's just something about like the look of them. And I find not in every case, but like people, people's hands and feet kind of.

look similar and so i love a like lean foot where you can like like it's a little bit like you can kind of see like the bone you know like i i don't know it's it's there's a very Kind of, yeah, but I notice it most commonly in men who are maybe taller and leaner or men with a lot of testosterone. um there's something about their hands and their feet where like you can like see the bones and you can kind of see the testosterone and like the veins running through them a little bit and it's so sexy

No. Yeah. I'm just going to say the thing. I'm going to say the thing I was going to say earlier because it ties into this. So, you know, when you see a set of hands or feet, like you can kind of see like they look strong and you can see like the bone. And the testosterone running through them. And it looks like this person could like kill you with their bare hands.

so i think it's hot when somebody looks like they could like kill you with their bare hands or something but like they don't you know of course i'm like thank you for not doing that but like it's so hot that like you probably could you know I don't know. I'm a masochist, I guess. But yeah. Yeah. Hands, feet. Someone who's a bit off. Yeah. And then we're focusing on physical, right?

Yeah. Mainly, yeah. Okay. I think that's mostly it for me. What's the non-physical one? I'm curious now. I gotta know.

Well, honestly, it's like how they treat other people. Yeah. I pay attention to that. And I just, yeah, it's something that's really attractive to me. Like how someone... treats other people or behaves toward other people when like no one's looking you know or they think no one's looking or whatever and then when yeah when they're just kind of like doing their thing and they're in their element um

I observe things like that and it's like, it's, it's a turn on, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Other people, other beings, for example. Yeah. What I love about this conversation with both. Matt shared and with what Marina had shared is I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who have been nodding their heads going, yeah, yeah, yeah, me too, me too, me too, me too. And I ask you, how often do you talk about this?

like the conversation that we're having how often do you walk around with your friends and talk about those or how often do you look up like oh yeah guys with bony feet like or whatever your thing is but yet you know we And probably I'll agree we are attracted to people who treat others with kindness and respect. And yet we just doesn't, there's nothing out there about that. Instead, we get inundated with, you know.

abs, youth, whatever, all that other stuff. And so that's why I love this conversation. I think that if you are listening to this and nodding your head in agreement, then this just goes to show why we need to have more of these kinds of conversations. Yeah. Exactly. So I think you guys had a lot of them. I'm going to go with one. I'm going to second one a lot that Matt had said. You said humility. For me, I go wild for a shy guy.

There can be, you know, like, especially at gay bars, I love finding the guys who are just, they don't want to be there. I'm like, take me to him. I want to talk to the guy. I find them so attractive. They look a little bit uncomfortable and they're like. kind of stiff and in their mind they're probably thinking i don't belong here no one likes me and if they just looked up off their phone and looked at me i would be like

drooling because there's this very shy kind of awkward looking guy there. And so that's always been something that I've been drawn to. I think it's because of what you had said, Matt. I think it is because of the humility. or maybe what would Reno had said something off, but yeah, I do like that. Yeah. Physically, I like the two kind of ends. I like a guy who is thick, like dense.

Like there's just a lot there. And also a guy who's short, like a short King. Give me like a five, two, five, three, five, four. Sounds very sexy about that to me. I think that's very hot. And yet, again, I think especially for men, men are socialized. All men are socialized to think that height.

uh is sexy in that if you are going to be attractive man you need to be whatever six foot whatever this is especially true in the stray world but also in the gay world uh but not me uh give me give me a short king love it uh i love that and then another one that's really that's that can i ask you something does that change how you would like like let's say for example like you would want to bought or top

the small guy and be taught by the big guy does it does that influence it at all like the size of the person no no not for me no i've been topped by short guys and loved it and i've yeah both ways It doesn't matter. I mean, for me, that's more of a chemistry vibe thing. Like once our bodies start intermingling, I'll know where I want to end up. And then the last one is dad bots. And from when I talked to guys, as I was saying on the top, when I talked to guys out there.

So many guys love a dad bod. They are so attracted to dad bods. And so I don't think that gets enough love out there. And I do think that there are quite a few people who love a little bit of a belly, a little bit of cushion, a little bit of spare tire. And yet we think so much that we've got to get rid of it. It's not good. We have to not have this. Otherwise we're unattractive. And yet when you talk to people out there, dad bods are hot. Yeah.

Yeah, there's something to like the firmness of a guy that's really ripped. It doesn't feel good. Like when you're meshing your body with somebody that is like super muscular, it doesn't feel as good as meshing your body. Like it can look better. in a sense but the feeling of having sex with somebody that's really ripped versus somebody that has more of a softer body it feels better for me at least with with somebody that

What I've noticed is that for the guys who are super ripped, like when people chase them, it's almost like it's for the trophy to say that you could and that you did. Like, oh yeah, see that guy over there with all the abs? yeah he fucked me and like like yay it's a trophy of a check mark not so much because you're genuinely attracted to it yeah

Yeah, it's almost like an external validation. It's like, yeah, I got that, so it must mean something about me. It's like they're using that as a currency. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I forgot one. I would be remiss if I didn't say it because someone listening will really appreciate this. I love a big nose. Oh, yeah. A big nose? Oh, I love a big nose. Huh. Yeah.

And even if it's like a little crooked or off or something, like there's something about, yeah, there's something about a big nose. And if it's like crooked, that's hot too. yeah love it so if you're out there and you're listening and you're self-conscious about your big crooked nose just know I would eat it up and you know how much that costs to get like rhinoplasty it costs so much money people spend so much money on that

Yeah. I told the story here about my teeth and how I hated my teeth for so long. And I was going to spend all this money redoing my teeth. And then luckily, so many people have said, no, my gosh, your smile is like one of the greatest. Love your mouth, Michael. Right. I don't. But I do now. Same thing. That stuff costs so much money and I wouldn't be me. And yet I thought that in order for me to be attractive, to make it in this world, I needed to have perfect teeth.

No, don't you dare change that mouth. Yeah, exactly. Speaking of mouth, another one for me is Lisps and Accents.

Okay. I love a lisp. Like, Matt, you were talking about Milo with the Crooked Mouth. Like, a little bit of a lisp. lot to me yeah and people want to like correct their speech so they speak perfectly and i'm like no no no no it's so sexy it's something that's unique and different about you that i think makes you very attractive yeah like mike tyson I find that so cute. Yeah, Mike Tyson, I think. Yeah, he has a list, and it's so hot. All right, let's hear from our audience.

So for our listeners and viewers out there, if you're watching this on YouTube, go ahead and write this in the comments. Now, what are some... traits or characteristics that you find sexy that you don't think get enough love and airtime out there. Okay. So write that down. Let's hear what you guys have to say. And if you're enjoying the conversation we're having here, we want to invite you to our connection circles.

Every month, we host two connection circles where Matt and I facilitate small, intimate conversations about different topics that we discuss here on the podcast. But in a connection circle, we want to hear from you. So you, our viewers and listeners, get the chance to come together in a room.

We put you guys in breakout rooms and you guys have a chance to talk about whatever the topic of the month is. If you're interested in joining us, go to www.gaymansbrotherhood.com and check out our events section to RSVP. Make sure you are on our email list so that we will email you the Zoom link and all the details to join us. All right. Let's do story time for our next question. Matt, share a time.

when someone surprised you by being not your type, but you still find them attractive? Yeah, it came to me right away when I was thinking about this last night. It was probably like maybe eight or nine years ago. I was at a nude beach.

and saw this guy and like i wasn't really attracted to him at first and um and then we were like we had mutual friends so we were like out in the water and stuff like that and like tinkling around and um i had wanted somebody to exfoliate my back with sand i always do that when i'm at the beach and he's like i'll do it so he like started doing it and then his touch felt really good and um

And then we just totally ended up hitting it off and we dated for two years. And why conventionally is because he did have more of a dad bod and he had longer hair. And he had more like darker features, like almost kind of like Greek looking, which is not usually like what I go for. But he, yeah, we had like this insane chemistry. So it was, yeah, it was nice.

So what was it that drew you? And was it the touch that all of a sudden your brain was like, hey, wait a minute? It was an energy. Yeah, it was totally his energy and like just something. And he had that walk that I'm talking about. And he had that like... just i don't know what it is like just this energy yeah that i was really really captivated by yeah and that's just it right he's an attractive guy don't get me wrong yeah he's just not like the

the classic guy that I would maybe normally look at or think I'm drawn to. Did that experience change the trajectory of, and sort of the orientation of like. your dating life would you say after that that relationship you mean yeah and just like did your preferences shift like did it sort of open things up as yeah That relationship cracked me open in a big way. It was a very painful relationship. So it cracked me open and it sent me into a major spiritual awakening. And so, yes.

to answer your question, but maybe not how you meant it. It just cracked me open in the sense of being more drawn to energy. And my types are so different. If you look at all of my exes and you were to line them up, you'd be like... the heck like everybody looks so different and so unique so yeah it's definitely a testament that uh i i'm just really drawn to people's character and energy and different things like that

I should have asked that as a question. We all kind of go through our X's and show them on screen. This is my life. First there was this guy, then there was this guy. Oh my God, that'd be interesting. So yours don't follow a type, Matt? Has it, like, is there a...

A pattern over time? I would say that the only thing that I would follow would be masculinity. I'm very drawn to masculine men. I don't think I've ever dated a guy that's feminine, like feminine appearing or anything. It's just not what I'm into.

but definitely guys who are connected to their feminine energy and like you know things like that so which i actually really love i love a guy who's masculine presenting but very connected to his feminine energy i think is a beautiful mix sounds like you Yeah, I guess that would be me. You little sweetheart. I sweat myself off my feet. I just need to clone myself, apparently.

Marina, what about you? Have you ever had one of those experiences where someone surprised you by not being your type and yet you still haven't? Yeah, he's downstairs on the hammock in the living room right now. Oh, wow. Tell us. So I was on Grindr years ago and there was this guy started chatting me up and I invited him.

over for pizza and he said no not tonight but i'll see you tomorrow and he came over and i remember this gangly little thing walking down the hallway and uh I had vowed I wasn't going to hook up with him and wore a pair of underwear with a hole in them just so I wouldn't.

That just made things easier, apparently, because within about 20 to 30 minutes, my clothes were off and we were on the couch bumping the uglies. yeah anyway and then two weeks later um he asked me while we were making dinner together he was like will you be my boyfriend i was like oh my god i was gonna ask you too um and we dated for two and a half years And we're still buddies. He comes and visits me at least once a month here, actually. Like, we are consistent. And that was...

I don't even know how many years ago that was. It was ages ago. Like we're, we might be approaching a decade soon. I don't know. Well, I think so. No, no, no. Hold on. Yeah. We're getting close. Yeah. It was like eight. Well, eight years. Yeah. Wow. Something like that. Where does he live? Well, he lived in Winnipeg. Now he lives in Seattle. And before that, he was in Vancouver.

And, yeah, I just, like, I was surprised, to be honest. I was like, I did not expect you to be my type, you know. But interestingly enough.

um it it does make sense now like he's he's weird like sometimes i joke i'm like sometimes you give like serial killer vibes you know um but i yeah and he's just and he's like he's weird he's like you know kind of queer in his own way um you know a little bit of a nerd but also like i don't know he just he's very much himself and very unapologetically so and just like

my ride or die in so many ways you know like we he accepts me i accept him for all of our fucking quirks you know and it's beautiful so yeah didn't see that coming That's beautiful. But you still matched on Grindr? Yeah, I think he messaged me is what happened. And we started talking and then he ended up coming over. So, yeah. So you gave him enough?

there was enough attraction there to at least have a conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I even remember, I was like, like, you're not, he's, he's attractive, you know? And he was even back then, but I was like. it's not really my type, you know? And then apparently he was. This is the disservice. I'm really happy that your story ended up that way, Reno. I don't think that's the common story.

And this is one of the disservices of apps is because there's so many options and just swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe. I think we throw away or we swipe no or we ignore so many great guys who could. potentially be attractive and be great partners, but we just, there's almost too many options where like, like we're like almost like that narrow.

vision it's like this is what i'm looking for i'm gonna skip everyone who's not that yeah and i think that does such a disservice because there's so many great guys out there who might not have a great They might actually be your type, but their profile picture is maybe not showing that off. Or maybe they are a great guy in so many ways. But like in Reno's example, you might not give them a chance. And when Reno did and look what happened. So, yeah, you know.

I think that if you're on apps, it's to slow down, something I've learned. I can go very fast and I'm like, I'm not even knowing why I'm saying no. So if you slow down and read the profile, then give yourself an actual reason that I'm saying no because it forces you to have a reason.

and this holds you right now it's interesting too because like You would think he would have been my type because I said I kind of like these gangly types, right? I'm thinking of Pete Davidson, the comedian. machine gun kelly like just like this skinny sort of lean whatever um but then he filled out and in my opinion like he just got like really hot you know like all of a sudden he had this kind of like daddy bond

And I was like, you're actually like so much hotter now too. It's wild. Yeah. So you just never know. Yeah. You never know. That's why I like meeting people in person. I'll always say. There's some people that I met in person that I've hooked up with or gone out with. And I'm like, if I had seen you online, I don't even know if I would have given you the time of day. Yeah. And about energy, it just goes to show energy is such a big piece of attraction. And we really need to talk more about.

But, like, how do you, like, it's so intangible. It's something you just need to feel, right? People have said that to me, too, before. Or they literally haven't even looked at me online sometimes, right? And then we meet in person. And they're like, oh, damn. And I'm like, yeah. Hello. Hello. I actually don't like when people say that to me. They're like, oh, you're a lot harder in person. Like, what the fuck? Like, well, what am I doing wrong? I want to hear that. I want to hear like.

I want to hear you look exactly as I expected. That's that's like the ideal. But when you're hotter in person, I'm like, I don't know if I love that so much. What about you? Oh, yeah, I didn't answer this. Yeah, I don't I don't have. I don't have one story, like one cinematic story. For me, it's just been a lot of those happy little surprises along the way.

um guys who like i said are at a bar at the gym or just walking down the street that i don't know i just see them and i'm like something about you i'm just drawn to it they just have something um another thing is voice if i if i can hear someone speaking i'm very drawn to a voice and i'm not saying it necessarily needs to be like a deep voice just something about a voice for whatever reason i'm i'm sensitive to that and

Yeah, I don't know. I can't tell you what kind of voice it is, unfortunately. But also when people can make me feel comfortable and safe and they're easy to talk to. So if I meet someone, let's say at a party, they're not really my type physically, but we start talking and whatever, and then we have a good conversation. My attraction will like increase. I'm like, oh my God, like this person's turning me on in like my brain. And now my dick wants him.

And so that happens to me quite a bit. So, you know, the way, you know, the way people carry themselves, the way they speak, the way they converse their ability to hold space and be present, that is what makes me attracted to somebody. So even if they don't start off being attractive. attractive to me, they can easily gain it if we get to know each other. And that's why I don't really take my types so seriously. Of course, yes, I have types, many types.

but i've realized that when i meet somebody my body responds very differently so you could be 100 my type on paper on grinder or whatever and then i meet you and it's just nothing like it's nothing Or the opposite, where you might not be my type on paper, but then when I meet you, all of a sudden the attraction is there. So I don't take too much stock in types, especially online. Yeah, that's a good approach.

You guys both had celebrity crushes, but I can't seem to think any. I was going to ask who are some of your celebrity crushes that you would say are unconventional. You named a few Reno. Do you have any other ones besides Milo, Matt? Odell Beckham was my last one. He's an athlete. Odell Beckham Jr. He's a little queer, right? Like he's like straight as far as I know, but he's just like, there's something a little queer about him that's really hot.

I don't know who that is. I'm going to look this up. Matthew McConaughey when he was in his 30s, 40s. He's been in my fantasies many times. Christian Bale was always one that I really thought was super sexy. Chris Hemsworth, maybe? Yeah. Those are all like what I would consider.

like everyone would like those guys yeah another thing something i don't like oh sorry go ahead no no you go um one thing that is i don't find attractive is like super muscular guys so you had said chris hemsworth i think is that thor yeah yeah Like for me, I don't know. I would prefer lean. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to think who would be unconventional of guys that I think are attractive. I think the one Reno said is a good one for me. What's his name? Reno Pete.

Oh, Pete Davidson. Oh, God. Oh, no. Wife it up. I'm like, what's up, dude? Yeah. If you're listening, call me. He's funny. I think guys who make me laugh, that's that. And then like his... I don't know what it is about him, but he just has a very animated face. He just makes me laugh. Funny, weird, like, oh, God, lean, like all the things. So our listeners out there might.

themselves think oh my god i'm i'm weird and awkward and shy and i have a dad bod i think that they're not attractive and i really hope that this episode helps you see that there are guys out there. And I promise you that Matt Reno and I are not the only ones who find those traits attractive. So I don't want you going into like, you know, a gym or a game or thinking, oh my God, I don't belong here because I don't look the part. No, you belong there because you don't look the part.

And that doesn't have anything to do with it. And maybe you do look the part. You just don't know it. You just don't see it, right? Because I think a mistake I see a lot of guys make is they think that they need to be what they're attracted to.

when they don't give people the benefit of deciding what they like for themselves they think they know what i like this has happened to me like guys will chat with me and be like oh a guy like you doesn't want someone like me like who the fuck are you to tell me what i want Like, I will decide if I want you and I'm talking to you and I want you. So let's go. Yeah. Amen. All right, guys. Any last words on the unconventionally?

attractive traits no i feel complete no just just that sometimes when i'm listening to you speak you're like really hot michael and i'm just gonna name that publicly i'm just gonna say it out loud i was like oh Yeah, sometimes you just catch my eye in a particular way and I'm like, hold on. Okay, since we're talking about it, is it the way I speak or is it the words I'm saying? What is it? I don't...

No, you know, you know what it is. This is what it is. I think that there was a moment. This is kind of vulnerable. That's funny. I put my foot in my mouth. There was a moment like. quite some time ago where I don't know you were speaking have you ever had this happen where you're like looking at someone but you're not really seeing them And then and then you see them and then you're like, damn, like you were in front of me the whole time. It was like it was like.

I had a moment like that, I think, where, I don't know, I just, you were talking, and I saw you, and every once in a while, there's just, like, something that happens when you're speaking, and I'm like, oh, hey, what's up? So, yeah. I've just embarrassed myself now, but that's okay. You guys need to meet in person. Yeah, I'm so curious. I am so curious what it would be like to meet you in the flesh. Everyone's going to say the same thing. I thought you'd be taller.

Is that what people normally say to you? You guys are around the same height, I think, actually. How tall are you, Michael? 5'8". Okay, so I'm probably like... a half an inch or an inch shorter than you i think i'm like i think i'm like five seven and a half yeah yeah you guys would 69 very well Yeah. I'll see you in Toronto. All right. And that's a wrap. Yeah, exactly. We're getting into the weeds now. Yeah, surely. All right, my friends.

Thank you, Reno and Matt, for being so vulnerable and also for shedding light. You guys got the assignment today. I gave you guys the assignment on celebrating those things that don't get celebrated enough. And you guys did a great job. So thank you so, so much for that. I really hope that the viewers and listeners got something.

me out of this uh thank you for sticking with us for this episode and remember if you're watching us on youtube go ahead and tap that thanks button to support the game and brotherhood and the game and going deeper podcast don't forget You can also subscribe to get episodes early before they're released publicly on Apple. So if you're listening to us on Apple, go to Early Access and gain access to about two or three episodes in advance.

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