Hello everyone and welcome to gay men going deeper, a podcast about personal development, mental health and sexuality. Today I'm your host. My name is Michael Diario. I am a life and wellness coach specializing in self confidence, sexuality and relationships.
Today I am joined by a very special guest, Pepper, and we are going to be talking about being kinder on Grindr. So before we jump in Pepper, this is your first month at Fast Flots. Give you an opportunity to introduce yourself to our audience. Thank you so much Michael. Thank you so much for having me. My name is Pepper. I'm a content creator based out of Los Angeles, California. I am a proud gay man from Miami Florida born in Brazil, but by way of Miami.
On the side, I practice astrology, I make music as well, and I'm very excited to be here and talking about ways we can be better towards each other and ourselves on Grindr. Yes, so thank you for joining us, Pepper. So for our audience out there, as you can probably tell, ready Pepper, and I have a lot in common with our mission. So we are both amongst other things. We're both very passionate and vocal about what I like to call conscious dating practices.
Simply put, what I define that as is dating practices that are placing more of a higher value on things like kindness, respect, intentionality, and honesty. Now for the record, Grindr is not sponsoring this episode, although that I think they might they should, but they're not. I will say that I've been a Grindr user on and off for, I think probably like 10 to all years at this point for a very long time.
And like many other people out there, I have loved it in many ways. And it's been really awesome for me. I've met some great friends. I've had some fuck ups. I've gone on amazing dates, met some great guys. While I'm traveling, which I'm currently doing right now, actually, it is awesome. Like I have a great time. I actually prefer using Grindr more when I'm traveling than when I'm at home.
And it can be really fun and really easy, super efficient. So that's on the plus. But I've also been incredibly frustrated with this app for many ways in many reasons. So lots of what I call, you know, fakes and catfish who are just trying to get something from me, which is very frustrating.
If you look up all the hours of my life, I have wasted on Grindr. When I say wasted, I mean, like just not had a productive time on it, it adds up. For me, it's one of those things that I go to when I want to be distracted or when I'm bored. And I can spend in it being a lot of hours in there unwanted. Another thing that I find really frustrating is the endless chat or like all these connections that seem really good at first within this kind of block and go nowhere.
And then finally, the most annoying thing for me is the level of rudeness and rejection, like the way people reject each other. I'm fine with rejection, but there's a way, in my opinion, to do it. So that's kind of why we're here today. Now, as a coach, I work mainly with queer with the queer community. And so obviously, as you can imagine, I spend a lot of time talking to my clients about Grindr.
And again, similar to me, it's an app that I say people love to hate. We love it because it's great in some ways, but also it can be very frustrating. So I see the positive impact it has on my clients, and I also see the negative impact it has. So we're not here today to say Grindr is good or bad. That is not the purpose of it.
The objective for today is that we don't think Grindr is going anywhere anytime soon. So if you are going to use it and if you do choose to engage, what we want to do here today is we want to make an appeal to everyone out there to put in practice, more respect and more kindness in the world, but especially on this app where there seems to be a major deficiency.
The second thing we want to do is offer some practical tips to make your experience more enjoyable. So with that said, let's jump into our first question and I'm going to let pepper answer this one first. So by the way, guys, I guess I should say why I chose pepper for this. I follow pepper on Instagram. He's amazing. You follow him to put the link in the show notes. But a while ago, I don't know how long ago was he did a post called five ways to be kinder on Grindr. Is that right pepper?
Yes. Yeah. Okay. And I just loved it. I was like, oh my god, this is exactly what the world needs. I shared it online. Of course. So when I was thinking about this topic, obviously, pepper came up. So let's first ask the question, why is it that kindness is harder to find on Grindr. What do you think?
Great question. I truly think when people are doing their thing, they're on their phones, they forget that who their messaging, whose messaging them is a fully formed, fully developed human being as well with their own shit they're dealing with their own job with their own, you know, flaws, their own highs and lows.
And when you're in your bed on your couch, you know, trying to get something accomplished or seeing what the mood is that night, whatever your objective is on Grindr, most other dating apps as well, especially hookup apps amongst queer men.
People forget that they're talking to someone whose feelings are on the line who are also being vulnerable and it's a product of being on our phones and truly neglecting the fact that someone else is also on their phone surrounded by their room or their living room, having lived their own day.
And it can get pretty easy, if not automatic to just assume, oh, there's a torso, going to message them, looks nice. And there we go. And there's a lot of lost respect in that, a lot of dehumanization, kind of an extreme word, but something we definitely, I guess uncovered or witnessed or seen when using this specific app.
And it goes back to being on your phone and being separated from the idea that there's someone else on the line that you're messaging that is just going about their life as well and trying their best. And we lose sight of that, unfortunately.
I think dehumanization is the perfect word actually that's exactly it. And you know what, I'm going to admit this, I've been there, right, because as I was saying, sometimes when I'm on this app, I'm not in there like consciously intentionally, this is the one thing I'm doing, like I'm just going to sit there and open up Grindr and I like it's, I just usually one of three things I have going on at once.
That's just me like I have it over here and watching Netflix over here, maybe texting somebody else at the same time. So I don't give it the same, the person on the other side of the screen, I wouldn't give them the same level of attention and presence as I would if we were on a date in person or like they be the primary focus.
I wouldn't be like, oh, while they're talking to me, like, sort of talking to my friend over here and then pull up my phone, like I wouldn't do that. We focused on them. So I think, you know, that might have something to do with it as well, just the distractedness of it, at least for me, I'm speaking personally here.
Yeah, absolutely. And especially on Grindr, there's such a aspect of looking for now right now, see you in five minutes that you can be talking to more than one person at a time on the app itself. You can be talking to, I don't know, up to four up to five, exchanging picks and stats and what are you into and can go, I'll get lost and you're just in that moment, especially if you're horny, which I'd say most people are when they're on the app, you're not exactly thinking, oh, how can I make sure this person is seen and value is more like,
how can I get the hottest person over as soon as possible, you're thinking about the payoff and the potential encounter you might have more than the words that you're expressing or not expressing when in pursuit of that. Yeah, it's the getting of the way so that it's what can I get, what can I get, not how am I showing up. Right. So let's look at your experience. I mean, I said that I've been on Grindr on and off for about 10, 12 years. How long have you been a user of it?
I think I downloaded Grindr right when I was 18 back in Miami, fresh off, you know, the 18 train, I guess. On and off, I'm now 26, so on and off for about eight years. And like you, I've had some great experiences, tried new things, made friends, but I've also of course, like everyone faced rejection, you know, been called names, been some things I didn't want to be seen.
So I just, I didn't want to be sent solicited where I didn't want to be solicited and yeah, I think there's no surprise that Grindr has been listed as one of the most time consuming apps, one of the apps that causes its users the most amounts of depression of anxiety.
So I've only had my days where I've taken rejection more hard, dirt than I would now, I really let it get to me, especially when younger, especially as I stated, I was pretty young when I started and I didn't have many gay friends, queer community, I'm just trying to find my place in, you know, our world.
Seeing that rejection and feeling that didn't necessarily create a space for me to find myself worth to find community. And I think for the younger users of Grindr, that's something to really be cognizant of when entering that space is that yes, there's positives, there's negatives, but it's not the only place where you can find your community in yourself.
And if you have a negative experience there, like I had when I was younger and struggling to find my community that doesn't mean everywhere else in the queer community won't be accepting won't give you the time of day. But in saying that I still use Grindr, I've been using it this week for, you know, research purposes for this podcast.
Yeah, on and off user have what I like about it, many things I don't like about it, that's one of the reasons I made that post. I should also mention the platform I posted it on, I'm not doing a great job of branding myself, but my account is called the gay good on Instagram.
So at the gay good, that's where Michael and I got to know each other a little bit. And yeah, you can find my post there, but going back to this specific topic, that's my experience with Grindr and why I think it's important. And we're meeting today to share tips and tricks, as well as some of the realities that we've encountered on sad app.
Yes, and I will be posting your information on the show notes. So for anyone who is looking for pepper, I'll be posting his Instagram there. So I used to run what I still do from time to time, a workshop called How to Meet Great Guys on Grindr. I started doing this maybe during the pandemic, so around to the 2020. So I'm going to borrow a little bit of the content from that workshop, and I'm just going to throw it in today. But one of the things that I had on there is some stats.
And I'll keep in mind this is from, I mean, I got these stats in 2020. So it might have changed from them. But one of the reports was that 70% of Grindr users felt regret after using the app. Another stat was that the average daily usage was about 54 minutes. So it's almost an hour of your day on average. That's all long time to be spending on that.
And then another report for pretty much said that the user satisfaction. So whether you're a satisfied user of the app or not really boils down to whether that app is meeting your primary goal. And it makes sense. If your primary goal is to hook up and you find someone on the other, you're going to be like, yes, I'm a satisfied user. If your primary goal is to find a relationship and all the grading is people I want to hook up, you're going to be an unsatisfied user.
So those are just a few little stats that are that are from that workshop I did How to Meet Great Guys on Grindr because I do believe it is possible not only do I believe it is possible. I have had it happen to me and I know many people who have met their long term partner on Grindr. So it's not all bad.
So what I want to do next is talk a little bit about this impact on the gate community. So I said as a coach, I work with mainly the queer community. And yeah, it's been a lot of time talking about Grindr. So it really has become part of our culture like it is one of those things that I think as we look back on the gate culture in like 20, 30 years. Grindr will be one of those things just like disco us in the 70s or like bath houses are still today.
So there it has shifted our culture, the gay culture, queer culture. But the source or whether it has shifted it for the positive or negative is still the source of much debate. And I think personally as a right now it's both in many ways things have gotten better, but in some ways it's also worse.
But I will say this. So if your main interaction with gay guys is on Grindr, you're going to have a very distorted perspective of the gay community. So and then that may be on any app actually not just Grindr.
And you're probably going to have a more negative opinion of the gay community. If you think that that's all it is is all these people on Grindr, that's what the whole gay community is in real life. Now I know for sure that there are amazing guys out there who, you know, like we were saying at the beginning, they will not show up the same way in person as they would on an app. And I think that's sort of what we want to do here today to change that.
And things that we hear a lot in the gay men's brotherhood, which is our community of over 6000 guys. You know, gay is just one sex, their vapid party boys, fame and all the ones who are looking for relationships are only looking for open relationships.
So again, I host zoom hangouts for the last two years in this group. So I know a lot of what the real guys out there like not just Grindr. I also host my own workshops on sexuality dating relationships like coach one on one. And what I can tell you for sure is that that is a small piece of the gay community.
The ones who want sex, vapid party boys, fame and looking for only open relationships, that is that is there absolutely, but there are so, so much more to it than that. Like I get to hear what goes on in the hearts and minds of guys all over the world, all different ages, all different backgrounds. And guess what they want, you know, monogamous relationships, they want genuine connections, they want to be seen, they want to be heard, they don't want to be on the set, they want to meet somebody.
That all exists as well. So let's talk about that. Let's put that over to pepper. What do you think the impact has been sort of if we take a macro level like on gay culture, how has this app affected our culture?
I definitely think it has led to more stereotypes exactly like you were saying, I think I should also say that I live in West Hollywood. Okay. Okay, over here in LA. And being here, you know, if I'm just going on Grindr, there is a lot of the party boys, the circuit guys, the muscle queens only looking for more fit and ripped guys. And it can be very easy.
Like it was for me when I first moved to the city and didn't know many people and didn't get the chance to meet many people, I moved here right around COVID and lockdown, where I believed this is the only thing that's going on. I don't necessarily fit this menu and I out a little left out of it. But now that things have opened up, I've gotten to go to drag shows. I've gotten to play sports here in the city and have met a lot of wonderful artistic supportive.
Friends in the queer community, but when thinking of Grindr, I think there is mostly, how do I say, I don't want to say distinctly a negative connotation with it. It's definitely for lack of a better word meme. It can be seen as something, you know, funny where we can read our friends about like, oh, she's on Grindr again.
And, but I think you're very right that this is a historic part of our community. And when we look back 20 and 30 years, this is going to be something that people write about and want to learn more about how it affected and still affects the community.
So when thinking about the greater, I guess impact Grindr has had on us, I think again, it's a twofold answer. A lot of people have been able to connect with others, find relationships or find kinship, find platonic relationships as well, find their tribe.
Whereas some people may have not found that and felt, FOMO left out of the party like they didn't belong. So I don't think I can confidently say myself that Grindr has had a positive or mostly positive or mostly negative impact on our community. But it definitely has had an impact and it's there and every day there will be someone on the app that has a great experience and someone that doesn't have a great experience and unfortunately that is what it is.
But I hope conversations like this can gently, will swiftly get that to become more overwhelmingly positive or at least respectful interactions on the app. Okay, let's take it personally then what for you specifically your personal experience, what has been your I guess biggest pet peeve with the app? My biggest pet peeve is flaky people.
You know, I don't have all the time in the world and like you said sometimes I'm on the app and I'm doing other things, I'm watching Netflix, I'm getting ready for my day, who knows what. But specifically if I'm on the app and I am looking, which I would typically make that known.
And we'll go into that when we talk about more tips and tricks. I usually bottom and I like to be prepared, I like to be clean. So you know time goes into that. So I think there's nothing more frustrating and annoying than getting ready for someone. And then they don't respond or they're not online and I'm like, well, I'm here ready to go baby. Where are you? You know, I think that's the most, that's my biggest pet peeve.
I'm also peeped when people just don't read my bio. I think that's one of the tips I want to get into. But put set some notifications in your bio for what you want to see what you don't want to see. I do not want my first message from anyone to be a dick pick.
That's some people are into that. They're like, bring it home. Let's go. I don't care how nice it is. How juicy it looks. I don't want that as my first message. I want to at least say hi. What are you up to? It can very well be the fourth message, but not the very first one. So once I get that I know, okay. This gentleman has not read my bio is really just looking for anyone and that's a big turn off for me. So I guess those are my two biggest pet peeves is flakes and unsolicited dick picks.
Good. Good ones. So I'm going to share some as well. And then we can get into the good stuff that tips and tricks. So for me and I'm not going to take yours. Like, like, you know, this is definitely one of them. I would say pick collectors. So what that is I so my profile my render profile is I think whatever the maximum six pictures.
So like you can go through like NC six different photos of me, some of my face, some of my body with clothes on with clothes off like I have a nice range of photos. You can get a pretty good idea for what I look like.
And then they want more of course, and I'm like, okay, well, like can we, you know, I get that I want pictures to like can we chat a bit first and then there's want more picks more picks more picks more picks more picks more picks. And then once they get to the juicy picks, the dick picks are the whatever the nodes.
So I'm like, okay, well, what, what does that leave me now, right? So what I've actually started to do is with people that I actually want to meet. I don't even send them the nodes. I'll send them like a bulge pick or like something still sexy ish or like my hand covering it, but they won't get the goods until like the in that will show me.
You just want to picture of my day, or do you want to actually meet me right. And I always I'll say some like trust me it's better and real life. I'll try to make it flirty. You know what I mean? Like I'll try to have some little banter with it. So it's a little bit fun.
But yeah, that's something I notice as well as just people want just picks, picks, picks, picks, picks instead of the dialogue. So that's one. And then I think the other one for me could be that it's the like what I said at the beginning, the conversations that die off.
Like there's like someone's excitement at first like, okay, yeah, we're chatting with school and then like, I just heaters off. And like what happened like what everything was going fine. And it's not even about picture necessarily, but the conversations die on the line.
Like it's there. It's promising and then it's gone. And if I count all of the good conversations I've had versus all the people that I've actually met, that percentage is very, very small. And I think that's really unfortunate. So those are my two. So that said, let's start getting into the good stuff. So how can we be kinder on Grindr? And I'm going to let pepper take it away. Yeah, so I've actually expanded. Okay, great. I've tips that I posted back at the end of 2021.
And the next one is one that I've added since then when I first posted these I got a lot of backlash, a lot of people saying just delete the app. It's not good for you. X, Y, Z happened to me. And I'm sure we'll face a little bit of that with this conversation as well. People will see it and say just delete the app. It's not good for you.
But what I really appreciate of how you started this conversation is understanding that Grindr isn't going anywhere. Thousands of people will continue to use it. So just acknowledging that
kind of is what it is. And getting into that, I mean, once you're engaging on Grindr, if you're re downloading it, if you're going back on it for the very next time, ask yourself if you're up for it. You know, check in with yourself because as many tips and tricks and stories that we can share, there will still be a lot of people that don't get it.
There will still be people that aren't respectful. There will still be people that will dehumanize and not care too much about your day or your night. And that's extremely unfortunate, but that is the reality and that's not lost on me.
So I think the first tip is just to check in with yourself and say, am I ready for this? Can I handle this? Not everyone that messages you is going to be, you know, uncouth and nasty and vile, but you will probably encounter one or two people that you don't have the best vibe with or you feel disrespected by.
So checking in with your mental state, for instance, I am recently ish out of a relationship. It was about two months ago where that one ended. I didn't immediately download Grindr. I knew that if I did that week, I probably wouldn't have made the best decisions.
I was extremely emotional and I knew that in that state Grindr wasn't the answer. So I took about a month, close to a month and a half to get back on the app and to really work on myself and make sure that this was something that, you know, I can stomach and I can engage with and not put all of my self worth and value into this app as I probably would have done had I downloaded it, you know, the next weekend after a breakup.
So that's first for me is just making sure I can handle what's coming up and what potentially can come up. Yeah, I call that just self awareness, right? That's just a good question to check in with yourself. So that's a really good one. And when I, so sometimes I will actually recommend Grindr for some of my clients, if it, but, you know, I kind of have the benefit of like knowing their context and knowing where they're at and what they want what they're looking for.
Sometimes I will recommend for them, stop using this app completely. Other times I'll recommend for them, get on this app. It's exactly what you need. So again, it really depends on the context. It's not, it's, I don't think it's fair to say it's absolutely good or absolutely bad. It's really contextual. So that's a really good point. Thank you.
I'm kind of going through these in the order of how you would actually use Grindr. So before you even log on, I guess the second one would be when building your profile, make your bio something, you know, that exemplifies your personality. If you're trying to show personality, if you're just there for the fun, you know, make that known. But when making your profile and setting these expectations, make sure that you're doing so with empathy and respect for others.
I'm a lot of people, especially here in West Hollywood, I've seen, you know, muscle guys only fit only there is there are so many other words that you can choose to express that you're looking for men with chiseled bodies or that's been a lot of time working on themselves and at the gym.
And you know, I can respect that now as someone like now goes to the gym here in West Hollywood, they put a lot of work into their bodies like you do you girl, you know, so I can understand now with a little bit more knowledge and experience that preference, but it's all about how you stayed it.
And there are things you shouldn't be saying, especially when it comes into, I guess, racial preferences, you should never ever be saying no to a specific ethnicity on your profile that I believe in 2023 is a no no I believe in 1993 is a no no and every year before that. That you really do lack, you know, common sense and respect for yourself and especially respect for others if you're putting stuff like that on your grander profile still where have you been.
And in setting these expectations I'll go back to my example of not wanting to receive dick picks immediately if you don't want that go ahead and put that on if you are in an open relationship and you're you're just there for the fun let that you know if you are like you said early are not always either looking for now or you're doing other things you take a while to respond put that on there now.
Just so someone is wondering oh I guess he's not into me has a responded in 30 minutes maybe he's off the app and there's so many ways to sort of set yourself up for success or at least understanding I also think you know when we can get into this conversation there's sort of a debate on whether you receive a message from someone and you're not into them do you respond.
I will say send them a nice a nice rejection some people say it's better not to say anything at all so I'm interested to get into that conversation but if you're someone that doesn't respond to people when you're not interested I don't think there's harm in politely saying that in fact I came across a profile before that said I don't respond to all my messages wish you a best night just so you know not everyone responds to mine either.
And yeah we can workshop that a little bit but that's true you know we will all be rejected on Grindr that's sort of the name of the game over there so just because let's say I'm not responding to your message doesn't mean you know you're the only person that's facing this and I think that also goes back to the am I ready for this.
But yeah this tip is just all about setting up your profile and explaining what you're there for what you're right is and trying to get specific enough but also recognizing that other people again with full lives and vulnerable hearts and brains are going to be reading this and yeah I've seen a lot of interesting slash caddy. Yeah, I was for no reason no no reason like once I saw someone say like you all have an interesting idea of muscular. It's just like this is so unnecessary.
Yeah like what's that going to attract like right like why would you put that like who's going to be like oh that's an attractive person. It's giving cartoon villain like a cartoon villain would say something like that.
Let's pause here though before going to the next tip because I think you asked a very very very good question and I don't know if you remember about a while ago maybe like last year I was on Grindr and I had said like you know hey what's up and I said to someone and their immediate response was not interested period and my in like in my mind I'm like okay cool right thanks the only spend time and I moved on I didn't think much of it but then so I posted it on my Instagram as a story and I asked
if I was a pull like you know would you rather this person say this not like not interested very blunt very direct or not responded all. I am of the opinion I'd rather have never responded not interested because then I wouldn't just be left guessing when rang easy or why was happening was happening.
But most of the people I think I think I was the number was I wish I had my phone handy right I think it was like something like 65 to 70% had actually prefer that they say nothing at all and to say not interested. And that really blew my mind. I do remember this.
My answer to this has sort of changed and evolved with time when I first made the five ways to be grind to be kinder on Grindr post on the gay good I wrote was reject respectfully right something like thank you for your time I don't think it's a match I wish you the best of black with what you're looking for or no thank you have fun out there be safe.
But soon after I made that post I sent one of those messages and then my account was what's the word when they take it off like really like you know deactivated activated yeah my account was deactivated so I'm assuming that this person did not take too lightly to my rejection response and reported me because it wasn't too long after that.
And I put that on my story and I I saw some of similar conversations and answers for people saying I went out of my way to tell someone I wasn't interested and they either retaliated. And not nice messages to me I was deactivated as well so I really think it's the best that you can do in the moment. I think I would prefer getting a message maybe not as blunt as not interested period that kind of hits a little different.
So I think I would prefer getting a message saying that they're not interested but you know so that I live a happy life or something yeah. But I respect it when someone doesn't respond it's a little bit of the message being received you know and one of my other tips I'm not trying to move past this conversation is just understanding to reject with respect but also take rejection with respect and understand that.
At the end of the day no one on this app really owes you anything and that if they're not interested I hope they're having a good night maybe they meet someone that's great for them I can still go on and message someone and hopefully they will be interested in something may come of that. No matter what it is but there are so many times where you can express your disinterest even politely and be faced with backlash or oh well you're not that cute anyways I've received that yeah.
And I'm like well you gave me a little flame tab so what's that all about you know. So just goes back to saying are you ready for this are you ready to face rejection because when you're on this app with hundreds of other people around you or if you're in a smaller locale and even if it's 15 people you're can be possibly engaging with not all of them will you know want a bite of what you're cooking.
And that's okay because those aren't your people so I would say you don't want someone who doesn't want you like if they're rejecting you yes it could hurt but like at the end of the day if you really want to be using up your time and energy convincing someone of your worth of your like no you don't you want someone who's going to see you and want to be with you ultimately that's what I think anyway.
Yeah and I've also gotten it where I've rejected someone and they they wanted to know why and I kind of just a client to answer. I didn't think anything productive would have come of it you know me listing the reasons I don't find someone attractive wouldn't make me feel good definitely wouldn't make them feel good.
And honestly who cares what I have to say I am one person that doesn't know you and because of the way this app works I don't know what your personality is like or how great a friend you are and I who cares what that I'm not interested in this very moment you know I don't know all the amazing things about you and you know stated earlier in this conversation that's one of the the detriment where the lacking features in this app.
But going back to it is what it is that's the nature of how this app you know presents itself and how we show up on it. Oh my one more comment and then we can go on to the next if I promise.
So yeah another thing for me is that if someone does reject me respectfully I will just have so much more respect for them even though they just rejected me I will be like what a stand up guy what a way to use your words what a way to have integrity what a way to communicate what a way to be mature like all these things are for me are like turn on like I'm like I'm like I'm like that's like ironically the guy who's
really good at it is exactly demonstrating the kinds of things I want because he's doing it in a very kind way so yeah I will say that as well okay now what is the are we on three when our third tip well we've kind of jumped around a little bit so I had them listed as one ask yourself if you're ready to set your expectations on your profile and also take the time to read others people's expectations on their profile.
So we sort of a subsection to two I guess stating preferences and what you're looking for with respect and empathy for reject respectfully and now I guess five take rejection respectfully and in stride. So now we will move on to six and this goes back a little bit to the flakiness or the pick collectors you know our pet peeves is just respecting time.
So I'm interacting the fact that people may be looking for now maybe they're not looking for now I will speak from experience I'm usually not looking for right now because again a lady must prepare but it's also I've now in the stage of my life rather look for friends with benefits and something a little bit more regular which can come up of a one night stand.
I like to talk a little bit more before getting physical with someone so and I let that be known pretty early on in my conversations unless I am looking for now but it's usually just you know I'm going to work in an hour but if you'd like the chat until then I'm out for it and that chat can be friendly or it can be a little sexy depending on you know how we're both feeling.
I think it's important to note again that everyone is not on the same wavelength as you for what they're looking for what they're doing at that point of time and to give people their time to respond I remember getting very anxious if someone was responding back and forth with me really quickly and then oh wait it's been six minutes what did I say you know or oh now it's been 12 at who knows what's going on in their life maybe they got a call maybe they're in the shower.
I truly have no idea and the other aspect of respecting time is again with preparation and getting ready to meet especially if you've discussed what you're going to get into if you're unsure that you can actually meet that night let's
let someone know if you're talking to someone else if you're going to a party if there are some plans that you may go check out but don't leave it up in the air when someone can be pretty committed to this and pretty sure of the fact that he will be meeting because like we said no one wants to set their you know get excited for something.
I feel like you're about to get this and then it doesn't pay off not that you not that you're owed that I guess not that you've talked about you know having a little fun and it doesn't happen we can get into that conversation not that you owe someone you know sex or anything of this sort but it just is all about being as communicative and respectful as possible because
and our view day is a lot but there's also a lot of other stuff going on in my day when I'm on this app so respecting time and every way shape and form you can with empathy and conversation communication is a is a big one for me.
I think communication is such a big one because we communicate very differently online behind the safety of a screen then we would come up with a feeling that we would like on an actual face to face date what I think happens and when I say what I think happens is it's I'm talking about me is it's that safety piece right behind the screen it's very safe and easy to like chat oh yeah let's meet up.
But then it becomes a real at some point right then like okay I'm gonna I'll be over there in 10 minutes with your address and then it just becomes that that fact that it becomes real is almost I think scary for some people in some circumstances right and it's so much safer and there's no risk involved with very little risk involved doing this behind the screen but there's more vulnerability and having someone come over and meeting them face to face then you know they're going to see what you really look like right they're going to have a real idea for you know how to do it.
So that's a good idea for you know how you live or you are your energy or vibe and that really puts us in the you know at risking rejection like rejection like going and I see you and reject you and I think a lot of people get scared by that I think I've been in that position to where I'm like okay well he saw these pictures but what if he doesn't like me in real life and like what if this just goes bad and what if it's an awkward experience or what if I don't like him and then I'm in the awkward position of being like actually can you leave now I've changed my mind right like it's so awkward so it's so good.
It's so awkward so it's almost easier to just let's just exchange bags I'll trick off to your back so you trick off to my back and we'll call it a day. Yeah and that's real. The game the atmosphere does change when you set a time and you're like I'll be there in 20 minutes or I'll be there in an hour it becomes much more real.
I'm not completely see that feel that receive that in myself but that kind of goes into another point I was going to make that even let me read it just to make sure I'm getting my words right. I wrote this so Miami like no one owes you anything once you're there.
And saying that is even if you know the vibe is there online the pics are flowing and you're there if you're not feeling it you like every sexual encounter you have every right to put a stop to it to ask to take a few steps backward and yes that may be awkward it can be a little embarrassing but you also have the right to advocate for yourself and to be present in that moment and think.
You know what maybe this isn't for me tonight maybe this wasn't meant to be about a month ago actually I was talking to the sky for most of the day and then we agreed on meeting up later that night I watched Avatar the way of water with a friend they are also not sponsoring us James Cameron is not.
I went to his right after and the vibe just wasn't there sexually for me and we talked for about an hour he made me a nice drink we actually had a pretty great discussion about a lot of stuff that had no way shape or form any relation to sex but around halfway through I got the feeling that I didn't want to get physical with this person.
And yes that was anxiety inducing for me it's not a conversation to have but I also know that if I did get physical that wouldn't have been fun for me either ultimately not for him because I would have been you know half-assing it or trying to get through it and that's not something I want for anyone listening to this so I plainly said you know thank you so much for your company and for having me over for the conversation and the drink.
But ultimately I'm not feeling great sexual chemistry here and I think I'm going to be on my way thank you again and you know was it awkward yes it was really awkward leaving but the second I left I went whoo I'm proud of myself for doing that I don't think I would have done that when I was 22 we're just getting on the app and it ultimately probably was for the best for the both of us so you're totally right the game does change.
Once you're going to go see someone it's not as comfortable it's not as safe you're way more vulnerable not that you know many grinder situations you know become dangerous that's not what I'm trying to say but you still have the autonomy in the choice. Throughout any aspect of grinder online and when you get there to see someone to take a step back to assess the situation and how you're feeling and only decide or re decide where this is going.
Something that I've learned in say maybe a few years ago I kind of made this promise to myself after a series of bad situations bad meetups was that I was never going to agree to do anything physically until I met them in person because I think three three times in a row the one I met the person that I like his pictures were hot and I was like all into it and I was so ready to go.
And then I met them in real life and kind of the same thing they just wasn't there either he didn't look anything like this photos or I just just wasn't there like for me it's just a very energetic thing like attraction for me like I need to just feel it sometimes I feel it sometimes I don't does matter how I'm using air quotes you may be if I don't feel it so I just stopped making promises of what of anything sexual say that lets me up and then we'll see how it goes and if they don't like that.
They're not for me like listen I'm not the you're not my guy sorry and then that's okay I'll take it I'll take it as a goodbye and happy with that. Yeah and I really respect that I'm talk to many guys that are like oh no no bear back then then no and I'm like okay you're right then then no. It's not a matter if you're not down to fuck then no and I'm like exactly that then you're right it's not meant to be. I hope you find what you're looking for it's just not not me. Ready for the next 10?
Yes give it to us. This is the last one I wrote down but try your best to avoid judgment like we both said we've experienced tried new things on the app. But every now and then you'll come across a kink request that you're either not familiar with not comfortable with and again you are more than you know you're more than okay to state that you're not comfortable with that.
But also allow people to live their lives like what they like to you know try their things and experience their fantasies and about I'd say a week ago I was talking to this guy about role play. I'm like okay I've done that once or twice but sure let's talk about it maybe there's something here we can agree on and potential trigger work here but he said he was really into rape play and I told him oh wow I am not into that that doesn't excite me.
Is there anything else that you would like to to act out but you know I said it in a way that was I didn't put him down or be like oh absolutely not for me even though in my mind I was like who.
I could never be me but if that's what he likes and it is doing so in a safe way who might to disparage him or to screenshot this message and to put it on my close friend story as many of the gaze do with our grander messages I'm going to allow him to like what he likes and maybe there's some some middle ground that we can agree on but
I'm going to respect respecting that this is a person you don't know their experiences as though he doesn't know my experiences especially in that category and just trying to be open and rejecting again respectfully rejecting that aspect that kink respectfully
so potentially be open being open to other activities or scenarios if we're still talking about role play here so that's become sort of a big one for me is just you know taking it information processing it saying yeah I can lean into that or no I don't think I'd be comfortable with this but thanks for sharing.
That's a great example and I love that you said you can reject the act or something but still remember there's a human there you don't need to like throw the spirit of the human being but you can say no thank you this is not something I'm into. And that's a very mature thing to do so happy that happy use that example I think it's a good one. And I will say I actually did meet up with that gentleman and had a lovely time and we I've gotten really into talking about like turn-ons and turn-offs.
Yes. I'm looking for more of friends of benefits more regular partners than a one off as I was probably a couple years ago in my grinder activity or pursuits so I think it's important to say you know what our hard knows for you what have you tried what are you looking to get into that entire question of into yeah there are so many ways to answer that that is not just saying you're a top or a bottom because that's not what I'm asking. When I'm asking what you're into.
So with that is hearing a lot of new information when I'm asking what people are into and what their kings are and just trying to absorb it and again reject or or compromise or discuss as best as I can. And to is a good one because I love giving financials that one people say into I will just give them a given like whatever I'm into like right now I'm into like wings and a beer. Yeah, that's what I'm into and they're like what no are you a top or bottom.
I don't know like I'm just going to have fun with this like sometimes I like to think of grinders a bit of an experiment like that way it takes a little bit of the pressure off like I'm just thinking when they're and and see what happens I'm going to go in there and like I know I'll know what I'm looking for. But I do think it's a little bit.
It can be fun at times to play with people's you know intues and top bottom or like when they just send me a picture like I will kind of have a sense of humor with it. Yeah, yeah, have fun with it like break the the norm and make one of those answers funny or show a little personality. There's something different you know again there's so many people that could be messaging you like stick out a little bit you know not so right.
But maybe do yeah, I mean I would I personally would find that incredibly attractive and like witty and clever and creative and intelligent and that would be like check check check check check for me. Okay, let's talk about getting off the so I think it's also important you talked about getting knowing knowing when you're going to go on like the pre I think it's just as important to know when you've had enough.
And when it's time for a hiatus or like just getting off the app so what would you say how would you know like okay it's time for break. Yeah, that's a great question as much and I've been on and off with it and usually when getting off it's either a it's taking up too much time be taking up too much of my vulnerability and putting too much out there investing too much of my emotions or self worth there. Three, have I been safe.
Have I just been you know having fun here, really nilly and not really thinking about my health. That's something I think grinder can do a better job of you know putting into their messaging and that's a whole nother conversation around sexual health and hook up apps and you know queer culture. But it just comes back to the same man's the same type of questions I had when I'm getting back on it or just even logging on is what am I doing here. How is it affecting me? Is it not positive.
What am I sacrificing by having by putting my time and space here. Who am I talking to you know have I already accomplished when set out to do am I looking for something a little bit more serious not that you can't find a serious relationship on grinder. But one of the reasons I got off of it around last year as I started looking for a relationship.
Which I did find and as mentioned didn't work out but that's I went through that journey and decided grinder wasn't for me at that time. I wanted to focus more on apps like Tinder or hinge or going to like single events here in we hoe and meeting people in person. It's important to you know check in with yourself I'd say monthly well on the app and be like how did this go how am I feeling where where do I want to be going with this and am I looking for fun and I looking for friends.
A relationship. It's all about self awareness. Yeah I agreed. Why like why am I going on this app right now before it instead of just like kind of automatically doing it like unconsciously like ask myself why am I picking this one why am I going to do this. And then kind of that evaluation like how has this been going for me like let's just take a minute to evaluate am I just you know doing this because it's what I do or do I really want to be am I getting anything out of this.
The last break I took was nine months and that was I think the last year maybe it was like maybe about a year and a half ago that took nine months off the app and my reason was. I just there's no point like I was I found that I was using it as a distraction so it was something that I went to is like my little wookie when I didn't want to do work or when I didn't want to deal with my life or when I wanted to like numb whatever the notion I was feeling.
And I just said why am I doing this is such a waste of my time I productivity went up. You know everything just I had more time my day and it was it was a good choice eventually actually that's what I was when I went when I came back to Port of Iota last year so it was over a year ago. I downloaded again when I came back to Port of Iota because I'm like okay well now I'm not working as much I'm going to be in PV I want to meet some people.
And then I'm going to re download it again for the purpose of meeting people and doing what you do so yeah I think it's equally important to know when when to get off in those questions that you had asked pepper were really really good so I hope people go back and rewind and listen to that again and and be honest with yourself as you answer that and if you find a way to me that maybe this thing isn't for me then take a hiatus there's nothing wrong with that.
Absolutely okay so we are at the end of our episode today at the end of the day I think what I want to say is to be the change you wish to see on Grindr ultimately. So pepper really quickly where can people find you if they want to follow your social media get you know more about you.
Yeah I have two Instagram accounts you can find me at my personal one which you're more than welcome to come visit is pepper underscore underscore time so pepper time and the gay good that's where you'll find most of my content creation and having discussions like the ones we had today trying to put a lot more energy into that this year that I had last year so at the gay good you can find me there as well.
Awesome thank you and audience I will be putting all this in the show notes so you don't have to go to for just click on the links up at the mall there and it'll take you right to his account as for me you can find me in the game and brotherhood the Facebook group we do monthly zoom hangouts the last Thursday of every month so join us there you could also follow me on Instagram I'll link this all the notes as well will be smell underscore coach and if you're interested in joining any of my workshops you can go to my website
www.wallysmall.com I may after this conversation pepper have to like dust off the had a meet great guys on grinder and do it again. These do bring it on yeah it was really successful back in the day and then I switched more to now doing ones about sexual empowerment which I love doing but there's only so much time in the week that I can do these workshops so.
Okay that's what I've offered you guys today again thank you pepper for your wisdom and as I said I don't know if I said when we were reporting but I love the way that you speak because it's very relatable and I think it's very important the work you do in the content you create so thank you not just for today but for all the content that you're putting out there.
Thank you I really appreciate that and thank you for inviting me on again it was a pleasure and always really good to see you as well. Alright thanks everyone have a great rest of the day bye bye.