What to Do if You Have More Debt Than You Make in a Year

It is what to do when you have more debt than you make any year, which is obviously the opposite of a light topic, and we both know what that's like. So we're going to walk you through practical steps to take, things to think, and then some truths that will combat the lies that your head might be telling you. I

love that. Yes, this is such an I love the theme of this, like even just the title of the episode, because I feel as though this was so overwhelming to me at the time when my debt was more than what I made in a year, and I didn't make a lot of money, so it was like this additional layer of overwhelm and stress. So we want to see you, We want to help you. You can do this. This

episodes for you. Yes, and speaking of overwhelm, this episode is brought to you by renovations, the renovations that you want to do, maybe on your life, but mostly on your home. When you are trapped in a room with all of your things while your bedroom is an open garage, open to the things of the world. So you really specific to your experience. Oh yeah, renovations. Want to renovate something? First,

take a deep breath. Then open a sinking fund at a high yeld savings account like the one at c T Bank currently offering over four percent apy because you're going to need every bit of cash for Scope Creep. Visit Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash ci T. Did you just make that up? Scope creep like style creep scope creep. No, that's a thing I did not make that. I've never heard it before. Yeah, Scope of Project, Yeah creeping, I know what you mean. Yeah, Wow, I learned something

new every day, Thanks for listening. I only record until I learned something. We are contractually obligated to make these go forty five minutes, so let's keep going. Okay, if you want to queue up a few additional episodes to play after this one if you haven't had enough, if you haven't been gobsmacked by your debt enough. Also, didn't make up that word. I know, I just haven't heard that one in a long time. So we've got episode two seventy six, which debt should you pay off first?

And then episode two sixty eight why paying off debt is important and attainable. So those are two really really good ones to queue up for after this one. None of our episodes should leave you feeling sad. They should all leave you feeling hopeful. That's the goal. So yeah, those are a few ones to play next. Perfect. Well, let's get into these articles. The first one comes from CNBC and it's titled how to Stop Obsessing over your debt According to Next and again, I love the normalization

in here. I think we don't realize how much other people are thinking about finances. I know, certainly for those in debt it can become all consuming. And so this was just helpful to see some of the statistics of what most other Americans are experiencing as it relates to their finances and hopefully help you feel validated in that but then not leave you there find ways to not feel as though you're obsessing. But they reference a study at twenty nineteen study that came from the ascent Just

Meets Your Criteriagen. One thousand and seven people were just the minimum pled in this research study, and they found that when it comes to how often people are mulling over their bills, looking at it, thinking about it, I don't know, doing stuff with it, twenty eight percent said they think about the money they owe every single day, followed by twenty percent who think about their debt almost every day and another twenty percent who do so several

times a week. That's a lot of mental and emotional space that this is taking up. And I mean finances are a part of our daily lives. Like we think about food every day, we probably think about some aspect of relationships every day. It would make sense that something

related to finances would cross our minds. But I think they're pointing to specifically the bills, the debt, and then the stress and overwhelm, and it's not it didn't go so far as to say like how long, how much of the day this takes up, But if you've got debt on top of just normal financial decisions that you're making, then it's probably taking quite an emotional toll and you're not alone in that, which, yeah, I think all of

that is super helpful to recognize. And so they're going into ways now to how do we alleviate some of this stress and overwhelming the amount of times the frequency throughout the day that we're thinking about this, And the first tip that they give is to realize that debt is often a part of life. And I don't know that i've ever read this in an article before, this kind of permission to say debt will be there. It's not to say, oh, well, then just don't worry about

it and collect more debt. Like I think we're all on a very similar page of we don't want this. But I think sometimes when we have this really shameful attitude about it, or we feel really guilty about the debt that we've taken on, we can cause more overwhelm and strain to our mental and emotional health than what's necessary. And so kind of taking this more neutral approach, this more kind of radical middle acceptance of debt is just a part of life. Like for most of us, we

ought to take out student loans. For most of us, we gotta go with a mortgage when we're buying a house. Like, there are these debts that are just a part of life, and today's landscape with buying vehicles taking out a car payment is becoming more and more normalized. So I also really think this is a helpful concept, even related to bigger part like all of life. I think there's this

myth about self sufficiency and like extreme independence. I think that really there is kind of a a longside, like we can't be completely self sufficient in any aspect of life. We always need help and support and some level of dependence.

There can be a healthy dependence, but I think that there's a little bit of a myth of being completely independent, meaning you need no one and nothing, And so I think kind of putting debt under that category of sometimes the support of a lender helping hand is necessary, and man, that takes a lot of shame out of it. Yeah. Absolutely, I'm pretty sick of the narrative that debt is the enemy,

that like we believe debt is neutral. There is no good or bad debt, and there is debt that limits your financial opportunity, and there is debt that can aid in financial opportunity, and the same debt can be either of those, so you can use it. You can use debt alone to purchase a house or a car that is very helpful to gaining wealth and security and financial freedom. You can take out a loan for a house or a car that is very detrimental to reaching financial freedom

or building wealth. So there is no good or bad debt. So I'm sick this narrative that debt is the enemy. Debt is a part of life, and I think once we realize that, then you don't have to live in the extremes of oh I live completely debt free, or oh I can't live completely debt free, So I might as well just take out debt for everything and take out as much of it as I want when you are when you are done living in those extremes, then you can think critically about the role that debt plays

in your life. So well said yes, And then you've got this picture of Susie Orman right underneath, where she's like pointing and she's like throw away You're financial to do list man takes Yeah, Susie, hope your new book goes well. All right? Number two is consider how much debt you actually have. And so again on this this continuation of the idea there is no good or bad debt. Debt is neutral. Debt is a tool. I mean, a hammer is a tool. It's great when you're hammering in

a nail. It's horrible when you're like hammering your thumb because you missed the nail. So it's the same tool renovations. The hammer is not evil because you hit your thumb with it. So you need to consider how much debt a you actually have and be what you actually need. So I spent a lot of time feeling shame and guilt when I had debt because I was under this narrative that debt is the enemy, and I let debt

into my life. I opened the door for the enemy essentially, So that gave me like a lot of guilt and shame when I was paying off debt. But I think if I could have reframed, if I had the perspective that I have now, I could have really thought more critically about it and said, Okay, how much how much debt do I have? Which of these debts are limiting me in my financial growth, and so what needs to be taken care of and I would have made the same decision that I made to pay off all of

our student loans to pay off our car. I would have made the same decision. I don't regret paying off all of those, but I would have felt a lot less miserable about myself as a person because of having that debt. So I would say the article is saying, it's not that you shouldn't be concerned about carrying debt, but just like concerned about how much you have. I think it's really just a call to look at what

you could do without the debt. Think about your values, think about your deeper why, think about your family and your friends, all the things you could be doing without the debt, and let that be the guide for why you pay it off. Not because the debt itself is the enemy. Yes, the deeper reason, and often we can connect to that deeper reason more than something that could feel arbitrary, just this number on a screen or a

piece of paper. Number three I really love, which is ask yourself whether you're making progress, If you're doing everything reasonably possible given your circumstances to becoming debt free, then this could be some level of permission to not continually

obsess over money. If you are throwing any additional bonuses or unexpected income towards debt repayment, If you are cutting back in one specific area of life or going out to eat or entertainment in order to put more money towards debt, even if it's small, or you just have a plan of some sort, this could give the freedom that's necessary to be able to let yourself rest in the fact that you're making progress, which can definitely limit the amount that we are thinking about it, the amount

of space. Not to say we're not going to have thoughts about it, but if we know, no, I'm doing something towards this, it doesn't mean that I'm experiencing debt freedom immediately, but progress is happening. That can have a profound impact on the level of obsession that we experience.

And they give examples of a mortgage payment. Obviously we could apply this to any other type of debt payment, but they reference that if your mortgage payment is twelve hundred dollars a month and you just add an additional one hundred per month to the payment, make sure it goes to the principle, then you would be making an extra payment on your house essentially by the end of the year, and just that one hundred dollars extra per month could shave off four years of payments and thousands

of interest over the lifetime of that loan, which is massive, Like months a month that probably wouldn't feel like a whole lot extra coming out of your bank account, but you are doing more than just the bare minimum, which we can rest in that we're not always going to be able to do everything. And I love that's why

they say within your means and with what's reasonable. Having that plan in place, knowing that you're making progress can really cause some of that piece to enter in and way less obsession, absolutely, And so the fourth and final one of how to limit this obsession and overwhelm with a big, big number on your debt is consider the why behind your debt. And so we think about the

why behind why we want to pay off debt. That is something we talk about a lot, but in that we often forget the why behind our debt and that can cause us to feel really bad about it, a lot of guilt about it. This was something that I experienced, like very very critically. I mean, I felt so dumb and my debt was just student loans, Like and I had four thousand on a car that I paid off very quickly. The bulk of it was student loans, and

I felt so dumb for taking out these loans. And when I looked back and thought about why why did I take out student loans? It wasn't like I was impulse buying a degree. I was doing something that I was studying, something that I wanted to do that I don't regret studying or doing that led me to where I am in my life right now, And all the great things that I have right now are by some degree a direct result of getting that degree, and so nothing in me regrets taking out that money and getting

that degree. Yeah. I love this question because this is another one that's not talked about. I wish I had this article during my debt free journey. There's so much that I just had to kind of come up with on my own of how to muddle through. This probably did exist, I just I don't know. I wasn't looking for it. But this question of putting meaning to the debt, not just meaning to the future financial goals, can really

help us to feel again the removal of shame. I think so much of the obsession with the debt can be very integrating connected with whether or not we feel guilt or shame over it, and we just want that gone, like we want the guilt and shame gone. But we can get rid of the guilt and shame far before the debt is actually paid off, as we begin to implement some of these mindset shifts. And yeah, I think two,

we can choose whether or not we value that. I think oftentimes I knew the why for the debt, and I was upset at the why, Like I got upset with myself for going to college, like that was a waste of money, and now I'm still not making more than what I owe back in debt. But that was a mindset choice, Like I chose to not value my education, so I even needed to back up from there. I'm speaking to my past self to have valued that, because maybe I didn't feel the value of my education in

that moment, but fifteen years later I am. Fifteen years later, I'm very glad that I got my bachelor's and then my master's, and there was a reason and a benefit to that debt. I just, yeah, I think valuing it and attaching a level of meaning to it that's going to be helpful rather than a hindrance. Yeah. And if that's not your story, maybe you actually don't love your degree,

or maybe your debt is more consumer. I would still challenge you to think about the seasons and the events in your life that were a direct result of those experiences that we're provided by this quote unquote debt. Yep, they're still learning. That's happening even if you're in debt because you just wanted to go on all of the vacations. Value those memories, find ways to attach meaning to that and then learn from it. How do I want to now spend my vacations in the future that aren't going

to feel so overwhelming or all consuming? Yeah? Oh beautiful. I'm so glad these articles are being written. Yes, Okay, so this next article comes from Oh the Motley Fool, and it's talking about five tips to lower your debt to income ratio. If anyone has applied for a loan mortgage trying to buy a car, this suddenly becomes very important. Yeah. So the first article was more of like, okay, what do we do with the psychological ramifications of having more

debt than we earn any year. And this one is more of the practical aspects of Okay, what happens to me financially if I have a really high debt to income ratio. So we're gonna go over these tips just

to give a little practical info. Yes, kick us off, Jen, all right, So the first one, if you have a high debt to income ratio, and let me just first let's figure out how to calculate our debt to income ratio, which I was also called a DTI, which is actually very important when getting a mortgage, but can be in other ways just in life. So let's say you earn six thousand dollars a month before taxes. That's what we're going to use in the DTI is the gross income,

so that's six thousand per month. And then you calculate all of your monthly debts, so that's mortgage or rent. They will include rent in their auto loan, credit cards, personal loans, HOA, fees, alimony, child support, all of that, and say that adds up to twenty five hundred. So to calculate your DTI, you divide twenty five hundred by six thousand, so debt divided by income gross income and

then multiply by one hundred. So twenty five hundred divided by six thousand is point four one six times one hundred. That's forty one point six percent. So the ideal debt to income is let's see, I think it's about thirty thirty six percent is the accept quote unquote acceptable ratio. Anything higher and lenders begin to worry. If you're at a fifty percent DTI, you will not be able to get a mortgage unless you have some creative financing strategy.

So you've got to stay below fifty, which, for in our example, if you earn six thousand before taxes and your debts are three thousand, so just five hundred dollars more, then you've really very limited is to what you can do if you're trying to buy a house. So we are trying to stay below thirty six percent debt to

income ratio. So if you find yourself, I would say anywhere above thirty percent, it should be your goal to kind of really work on this, especially if you're trying to buy a house, and the first way you would do that is to pay down high balances. And I would say, look, I'm just paid down balances honestly, because they're not differentiating between type of debt. This is not like your credit score where they're taking into consideration types

of debt. They are simply looking just at balances. Pay down any balance, and so then you will get closer to that thirty six or below percent DTI. It's going You're going to reduce it with every balance you pay down. Right, I appreciate this perspective because if your amount of debt is more than what you earn in a year, then we're not going to get it gone super quickly. And so this is more of that reduction model aimed at

eventually becoming debt free. But for many of us, we're going to carry a mortgage for a good part of our working lives, and so what is the important thing to focus on. This would be kind of one of those first steps, like when we talk about the financial picture as a whole, and creating an emergency fund is one of the first steps. Similarly, when it comes to our debt, looking at our debt to income ratio and lowering that is going to be one of the first steps.

And combine with that, number two is lower your interest on debt. We talk about this a ton. Some of the ways that you can do that, I mean, first of all, would be to look at paying down first your highest interest debts. That will cause you to not have to pay as much of that interest. It's a good place to start. It means you're also getting rid of debt. They also reference I had not thought of this before, but to call your lender and ask for

a reduction in the interest rate. If you've been working with that particular financial institution for a while, and if you've been paying regularly and on time, they may want to keep you enough as a customer to lower that rate because they know you could transfer that loan elsewhere. So those are a couple. I mean again, first of all, just paying off your highest interest debts, calling around and asking it for lower rates would be a really great idea. Again,

to lower that debt to income ratio. Yeah, it does say consider getting a personal loan or a credit card to lower these, but I think the main reason you would focus on lowering your DTI is to get a house, and they don't want to see you opening anything new in the last six months, So I wouldn't agree with that advice, but I would say normally we're neutral on debt avalanche versus debt snowball to pay off debt, I would say, if your goal is to get a house

pretty soon, to go more with the debt avalanche because you're gonna be able to lower your debt balance a little quicker doesn't give you the psychological thrill that the snowball will. But we're looking to make a decision that will be largely based on math, and so this would be the time to use a math tool to get that down lower. So this would be a place where we would favor the avalanche over the snowball. Third is to put credit cards on ice, and so they are

a florid play. They are literally saying. Some people have found that freezing their credit cards in a literal block of eye provides them with the time they need to talk themselves out of unnecessary purchases. So you can do that, but I think, especially now that most of our credit cards are saved on our computer, this becomes less advantageous, and I think just locking them so you can go into Chase, Bank of America, whatever and lock the card.

It shouldn't impede any recurring payments that come out, but any like new payments. Anything's like that, but double check with your bank. So this is a very good strategy if you need some extra barriers to stop going into debt. Yes, the next tip for lowering your debt to income ratio is to implement a twenty four hour rule. And I will argue that this is a great one for all of us. This is just a little frugal principle of being patient, giving ourselves margin and space in between wanting

to purchase something and actually purchasing that item. But particularly when we are in debt payoff mode, not spending additional money that we don't need to spend is going to be really helpful. It's going to free up a lot of those finances to be able to put as much money towards the debt as possible. And so with the twenty four hour rule, it's if you want to purchase anything, and I would add anything that's outside of what you

have to buy. You know, your food, your bills, your housing and transportation, things that you have planned for to spend on, things above and beyond that. This is really interrupting impulse spending. It's just one of those things that we can implement a rule for ourselves to wait the twenty four hours allow ourselves time to think through do I actually want to purchase that thing that I just saw in the store. Is it actually going to solve a problem and improve my life? Is it a necessary thing?

Or would it be more advantageous for me to put whatever money I was just about to spend on that item towards my debt or again, for those who are even debt free, towards any other financial goal. They give the example of like being out shopping with a friend and seeing a really lovely buffet table that would fit perfectly in your dining room, and it's already been discounted

several times. That is where it would get me like, oh, and it's on sale and it's calling my name and it's perfect, and they're like things have been on sale a lot. It doesn't mean that you have to buy them, and it doesn't mean that you have to buy it right away. You can give it twenty four hours, consider it, and if you've given it twenty four hours and you

still think that's a great thing. Great. Most of the time, though, when we create space in between something that feels like it's drawing us in and calling our name, when we're no longer right in front of that giving ourselves that time, most likely we're not going to end up buying it, and we can make better decisions with our money. It's really this kind of training ground for that. Yes, So there is a free Chrome extension that I love for this,

and it's called Icebox. It's Byfinder dot com and you can just go in and google icebox Byfinder dot com and you'll get the page straight to the Google Chrome extension. I don't think it has any other extensions for any other browsers, but if you use Chrome, it's so wonderful. It replaces buy now buttons on popular e commerce stores with a put it on ice button, and you get to decide how long that cool off period. So they call it how long the cool off period is, and

so you could say twenty four hours. I want it to go into my ice box for twenty four hours before I'm able to purchase it. So you put it on ice and then the countdown starts, it goes into your ice box, and then twenty four hours later that button changes back to an ad to cart, but its love putting stuff on ice, putting your credit cards and your freezer, putting purchases fictitional ice box on the computer. So yes, after that cooling period you can decide if

you still want it or you can discard it. And I think it's wonderful. You can of course turn it off. It's not going to limit you, you know, if you do need something in an emergency, but most things are not. The nice thing about putting spending on ice is that then we can put our debt on fire. There's an equal and opposite reaction. That's That's a good one, Jill. Thanks cool. What's the next one? All right? The next on this article is to take on a side hustle

you can enjoy. I like that second bit, yeah, right, that you enjoy? Yes, So there we all work hard, right, Like nobody's over here trying to scam the system. No matter how many people try and say millennials are not working and trying to scam the system. I don't know. I am trying to retire you have you, I try and save you in these episodes and then you go straight off and you're like, I would like to incriminate myself more. Anyways, I really do believe that everybody listening

to the show and beyond. We really are trying to make the most of the limited life we've been given. And so while yes, I think we do, some of us are in a position to do more work than others. Like if you are single, if you have no kids, you are in a unique time in your life to be able to do more than those of us who have multiple children, who are kicking us in the organs inside of our bodies. There's just one in there. There's one. She's got one outside of her that maybe sometimes kicks here.

I don't know, no, Okay, thankfully he's not a kicker. But so, yeah, you are in a unique season of life. And even if maybe you do have kids and you maybe find some time, you don't want to spend that time miserable. So let's look for side hustles we can enjoy that are actually profitable. So I'm not talking about like crow sharing hats in Florida and selling them at the farmer's market, although the Malli fool is talking about that. Not gonna lie, Yeah, I'm not for that. I don't

like crafts as a side hustle personally personal. There's might love it and go for it, Okay, so you might, Yeah, you might love it, but it's probably not going to be lucrative enough, and it's going to turn your hobby into a stress pot. So let's just think about things that will make us money and we can enjoy them. Maybe it's not our greatest passion, but we enjoy them.

And so we've been doing a side hustle series where we are highlighting a lot of different side hustles that are inexpensive or free to start, that do make money, that have a high potential for growing into actual full businesses, but can be done as side hustles and are enjoyable. So definitely check out our side hustle series for that. But do find something that maybe is not your passion but is not miserable. And that's my definition of enjoy

it's it's not miserable, but it's okay. Right Wow, Well, I mean I've got something that is definitely not miserable and is more than okay, and I super enjoy it. Oh my gosh, if I could get paid for just this, it would beat the dream. But it's not super profitable. The bill of the week, that's right, it's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage, maybe your car died, and you're happy

to have to pay that bill anymore. That bill Buffalo bill bill Clan, this is the bill of the week. Hi, Jin and Jill. My name's Amanda. I'm from the Dallas Sport Worth area, and i want to tell you about a bill that I think is really fabulous. We started getting these bills in twenty twenty one. So in the summer of twenty twenty one, we had to switch utility companies and my husband said that he had a brilliant idea that was going to save us a lot of money.

And I was really excited because I love saving a lot of money. And he said, we're going to switch to an energy plan that allows for us to use energy during the night for free. So that's from eight pm to six am, and he said, we're going to do a lot of stuff that requires energy during that time, so we're going to charge our electric vehicle, we're going to do our laundry, we're going to run the dishwasher, and we're only going to run the air conditioner now night.

So it sounds like it might be torture, especially in the Dallas Fort Worth area. But we cool our entire house down to about sixty five degrees at night, and then we just try really hard to keep the doors closed for the most part if we're going to be home. And we have taken our monthly electric bill down from an average of one hundred and twelve dollars a month to sixty dollars a month just by using us some of our heating elements that draw a lout of electricity

and our AC only at night. Wow, so many, so many lawyers to this. I love seeing like the nighttime like usage thing. I didn't realize you could get it for free at night. That's crazy. Also, yes, the idea of not running the AC in Dallas scares me. Your electric company did not see you comment, They didn't come in hidden anticipate Amanda over here not using her a seed during the day. But oh my gosh, cutting it

by what is that fifty bucks a month? I'm shocked actually at your electric bill even pre like doing all of these changes. Yeah, sixty eight dollars for an electric bill is insane. That's so low. Is fantastic, so well done and usually well done for your husband who when my husband comes to me and says something like that, I have a great idea for a way we can

save money. It's usually an immediate no from me. You just know, like some sort of radical idea of our groceries from the dubster, every single one of them, uh huh No. But yours actually had an idea and you got on board and it worked out. So congrats, Amanda, well done. If you all listening, have some story about not using your utilities even when you really really are quite hot. Night laundry, you're doing night laundry, you're doing you're doing night dish. If you're doing night laundry, give

us a call, like on the nightline. It's the same line, just the same line, but you can call it night line. Oh you know the drill for O Friends podcast dot com, slash bill. Leave us your nighttime or daytime bill. And now it's time for run pew all Right, today's lightning round question. How did you overcome the overwhelm of having more debt than you earn in a year? Jill, I overcame it by being all I mean, honestly, that is

the ultimate overcome and it does feel really amazing. But many of you know that I had about third No, okay, there was thirty six thousand of student loan debt. It was about fifty six thousand dollars of debt that took us seven years to pay off. So that was a decent amount of time. And it had to do with not making that much income in a year, even household income, and so it really was doing this thing for the long haul, which took a lot of intentionality in taking

hold of my thoughts not letting them run wild. There is a concept within mental health therapy of compartmentalizing various things, various things that might be stressful or anxiety producing or overwhelming, and giving ourselves space to think about it, but then also identifying when, okay, that's enough time and space that I've given my thoughts too. And I'm going to even imagine visualize putting that topic in a box and putting it on the bookshelf. It's still there. I can revisit

it whenever I want. I can take it out, look at it, open up the box, but then it's going to go back on the shelf. It's not going to remain open. All the contents of it sprawled everywhere, impacting and taking up space in other aspects of my life. I think that was really helpful, and we did talk about this in the articles, but it was really helpful for me to know that I had a plan having looked at it, knowing what the debt is, how am I going to attack it, How long do I think

that's going to take. How much money can I put towards it? Monthly committing to myself that if I do earn extra income, I'm going to put this much more percentage towards it. And so there was active effort happening. I was thinking about quite a bit. But I think over those seven years I did get better and better at taking hold of those thoughts and when they would be intrusive, reminding myself, I have a plan for that, and the plan is going pretty decent. This will be

gone eventually. Okay, thoughts in a box on a shelf, I'm moving on. That's great. All that how about for you? Jen? For me, it was it was really having the partnership of my husband. And I know that we don't want to say that a lot because we don't want to isolate our single listeners. But I think there are a lot of different tools you can use as a single person. But I think if you are married or partnered, you almost have no excuse. If you have a partner on board,

like there's just no excuse. Like the teamwork aspect of this is invaluable. You should take advantage of it. It goes both ways. I think sometimes you've got the not getting on board, and that's a challenge of you know, the couples. But when you are both on board, then it's a benefit to be able to work together. And I wasn't on board, and Travis really helped me get on board. And one of the reasons I wasn't on

board was because of how big the debt was. I put I put it off for years and years because I had fifty thousand dollars of debt and I was making probably about forty grand a year, and so I just put it off. And then and I said, when I get a second income, you know, then I'll pay it off. And then I was about to get that, and I was like, no, actually, I want to live life now, like I've just been quote unquote broke for so long, and so I wasn't going to do it.

Scope creep not lifestyle creep. Scope create good try. So I was that I was the partner that didn't want to get on board, and it was it really took Travis reminding me of the things that were going to be possible if I did get on board, making it about me and the things I wanted to do and accomplish, and how much easier it would be if we just did this one thing, how much easier everything else I wanted would be. So he really made it about me, and I love me, So that really got me on board.

And so tip tip for anyone married to someone who loves themselves thinking about them So it was that that really helped. It was that support and encouragement and knowing I would have somebody on my team when things got hard, and that I did, he followed through and was always there. That was really what helped me overcome the overwhelm of seeing that number TeamWorks makes the dream work. Yes, that's what I have to say about that. Thanks everyone for

listening and being on our team. You're making this a dream and many of you know that we have even more opportunities for being on a team and dreaming and being members and BFFs. And I don't know all the things our listeners are paying. A lot of our listeners are paying off debt, and we've got this community where we do monthly money challenges, offer accountability groups. You hear that as teamwork, someone else who's in your corner, someone

to be a support. If you don't have a spouse that's on board, or you don't have a spouse or a partner, then this is definitely a huge help. But I mean, we've got people from a variety of backgrounds and experiences in the group, so feel free to check it out. But we want to focus on one of our members right now who just experienced a big win. This comes from Ali, who recently shared so glad for Frugal Friends. I am on a lot of medical payment plans.

Seems like it never ends. I paid one of them off last month by submitting the final two payments and marked off on this month's budget that it was already paid. Thanks to the podcast, I've been tracking my expenses and I'm so glad. Today I noticed that I was charged again because the payment plan hadn't actually stopped auto drafting. Oh that's so annoying that happens. In the past, I probably would have just seen the charge and figured I

owed it. Ali, congratulations, you're on top of it. That's that like being aware of your finances, having a plan. It's not chaotic. And now that's money back in your pocket for someone else's mistake. But now you can put that money towards your other bills, which is amazing. Well done. Thank you all again for listening. If this membership sounds like something you really want to be a part of, where we have all kinds of courses, interviews, challenges, and

so much more. It is fun, because if it's not fun, it's not Frugal Friends. Visit Frugal Friends podcast dot com, slash club. Check it out, see you next time. Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni. Oh yeah, tell me about it. Yeah, I'm just thinking about debt. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, we just did a whole episode on it. Yeah, it's interesting, the debt to income ratio, like figuring that out, reminding myself that I don't want to take on more debt, but sometimes I do want

to pool. I shouldn't go into debt for a pool. No, I mean, if you are at a certain place where you have no other debt, I guess and that really increases the wealth of your life. And then I guess, go for it. Probably I'm not going to go for you. I know you. I know you are not in that place. You know me too well. Yeah that I probably just wouldn't even be able to let myself do it. But it'd be so nice to swim in the water. Yeah, that's why you get friends with pools or a drive

to the beach, or you drive to the beach. It's better to have a friend with a pool because the parking is free. Oh, I look at you. Yeah, I'm a pool girl. You're always thinking I'm a poolgirl. The refrigerator is right there, the parking is free. You're not going to get sand in your car. Ah. Yeah, So Floridians who have been here, like, who know, Floridians are poolgirls. We we just are. All you Northerners can come down here. You can be beach people. We're poolgirls, and yet neither

one of us have a pool. Yeah, but again, pool maintenance is difficult. You find a friend with a pool, we won't be each other's friends with a pool. Never find someone else. There are so many things you still have to learn about living in Florida. No, I'm all ears. Teach me