Episode three point thirty, What is the Radical Middle and how to live it?
Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, and life. Here your hosts Jen and Jill.
Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen, my name is Jell, and today we are talking about the radical Middle. It's been something that we probably mentioned on almost every episode, but we haven't done an actual episode on it for over a year, and even that one was more geared towards budgeting. This is going to be a very special episode in that there are no articles,
there is no googling this. This is something that we feel uniquely positioned to explain and cover, and so it's going to be an explainer, a conversation, a deep dive into the radical middle and what that means for you.
You're just gonna hear us talking, which is pretty much every episode, but we're not reading from the internet. We're
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We were just talking about before we hit record that our goal for every friend letter, at least once a week is to have some kind of like free no purchase necessary food or product or event or something for you. Like, yeah, we'll have the deals, we'll have the bogos, we'll have the you know, all that stuff, but we definitely want to have something that's like fully free for you guys to find and use and have fun. One hundred percent fun, one hundred percent free.
So far we're doing it. Not every week has been as easy as other weeks, but.
We're fine in them. We yes, yes, So let's talk about the radical middle. We have, like I said, done episodes in the past about it, so specifically episode two twenty two, Stop strict budgeting and start living in the Radical Middle. We kind of introduced the topic in regards to budgeting because a lot of the time with budgeting, people feel all in or all out. So it's either I'm budgeting perfectly or I'm not budgeting at all. And so if that feels like you, definitely head back and
listen to that one. But we also just recently did an episode episode three twenty five where we talk about a step by step guide to values based spending. So if you haven't listened to that one, I highly recommend you listen to that one first. It's another one that it's just us. We're not relaying our take on what the Internet says, which is most of our episodes are our take from people who live in reality, our take
on what the Internet has to say on topics. And so this is a special one, just like episode three twenty five. So I'm really excited to dive into the radical middle and what it means for more than just budgeting.
Yeah, so we're going to talk about this topic from the perspective of what is it? Just define it for those of you who maybe haven't heard us mention this concept in nearly every other episode. Why is it important? How does this relate to our finances? And then how do we live it? How do we practice living in the radical middle? So for starters, let's define it and
you'll hear both of genemized perspective on this. But I would say, simply put, it is holding the tension between two extremes where you can see the pendulum swinging to one far end or to the other. Of various topics, themes, life experiences. We are trying to say, there is good to be found in both extremes, and so how do we harness that and hold the tension there and live in that place? And we call it radical because not many people live there. Usually we can find ourselves and
we see others in one of two extremes. And so it's this rejecting the either or binary and replacing it with both. And how can I have the benefit of this extreme as well as the benefit of the other end of that spectrum.
Yeah, it's really a practical execution of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, right, So, like, there are good things to be gleaned from a lot of different influencers, a lot of different gurus, a lot of different mentors people in our lives, and just because there are some good things to glean doesn't mean everything is infallible, doesn't mean everything is good. But we can absorb wisdom without subscribing one hundred percent to everything everybody has to say.
And so that's kind of like this radical middle is the practical execution of that. But it's because extremes are everywhere every day in our lives. I think nobody would argue with that. We have extreme views on politics, extreme ideologies, extreme lifestyles like at the gym, or with nutrition, or even with great things like minimalism and sustainability homesteading, Like the things that go viral are the extreme ways of life, the extreme views, extreme videos, and so those are the
things that get a lot of our attention. And so the reason that it's radical to be in the middle is because all we see are extremes. The things that are in the middle that are the best of both extremes, those rarely get viral, those rarely get seen.
They're not as exciting, but they're also not as sustainable. And you see those realities too. You know this person who only ate tomatoes for an entire year, and here's now the ailments that they're struggling with. It's like, well, yeah, because we want to read about it, but it's not sustainable.
And I think similarly for our lifestyles, but there is we do have a propensity to be drawn to that and want to achieve that, and I think this concept is the rejection of that, to just give ourselves permission and freedom to say, I don't have to live in this either or I can find a way for both, and I can implement creativity and problem solving and it's okay to take this, but leave the rest and borrow from this side and create this lifestyle that works for me.
I really like using this concept of the radical middle in replace of the word balance or sometimes you'll hear me say holding the tension, because I think this word balance, which is another one of those things that's used all
of the time, and I get it. I understand what people are trying to say, but I do think it gives an unrealistic impression of what life can look like, that we're going to find this this euphoric state where everything is held in complete balance and nothing's dropping, and reality is when we find that, when we actually find balance, it lasts for like two seconds. Inevitably something falls out
of place. And so rather than trying to get everything teetering just right, what if just both and what if it's kind of a mess and kind of flexible but kind of organized and kind of put together too. That's a fine way to move throughout life and really much more sustainable.
M Yeah, I think we're so passionate about this concept of the radical middle because we've seen how extremes have torn good people and good ideas apart. Because I was thinking the other day, like when earlier in the summer, when I heard this phrase for the first time, you only get eighteen summers with your kids, I found that very inspirational. I had never thought about it before and to really savor the moments of summer. So for me, that was wisdom. And then all summer long on social media,
I just saw the opposite. I saw people renouncing that wisdom as don't be stressed by this. You get more than eighteen summers with your kids, even if they don't live with you, like giving people permission to not be held by that phrase you only get eighteen summers. So depending on the person, a good idea can be used as wisdom or it can be a weapon to hold
somebody back. But it's the same idea that the idea is not different, but it just depends on where the person is, maybe even on that day, on whether it is seen as wisdom or a weapon. And so it's this idea that you don't have to live in the extremes of the idea, right So just because you only get you know, quote unquote eighteen summers with your kids living at home, that doesn't mean that you are obligated
to make every single summer the best summer ever. But it also doesn't like the other side, like you can just kind of cherish the moments and live in the radical middle of that without being stressed.
I think what you're saying also highlights that the radical middle will look different from everyone. We can each be holding the tension of two extremes very differently, and sometimes what feels or is the radical middle for me might not be the same for you, But it also might look more or less extreme. For instance, when Eric and I lived in a motor home, that would probably be seen as a relatively extreme lifestyle for us. While it's not something that we did as a long term lifestyle.
That's part of how we held the tension between the extremes is that it wasn't this lifelong commitment to r V living, but it was also having a home, owning a home without being housepoor. We wanted to own a home within our means, and so this was we can have that and not be able to not afford our mortgage. And so even in that, I think we can have these various ways of war walking out the radical middle, and there's still being permission for it to look different
for every person. And that again ties into the freedom that we talk about all the time on this podcast and how that looks for our finances and the ways that this concept can even guide that reality as well.
Yeah, and I think one last thing on what the radical middle is that it's not deprivation that it keeps us being able to live that value spased spending lifestyle. When you're not living in the extremes, then you can decide for yourself, not have somebody else decide for you, but decide for yourself what you value and what you don't. And again that can look different from everyone. So that yes, it does require sacrifice, especially if we have let our
lifestyles inflate to a certain level. Sacrifice is not deprivation. They are different things. So while there is some sacrifice, you shouldn't feel deprived living in the radical middle.
So let's talk about, now, why is the radical middle important and really take a deeper dive into what this can look like for our finances. Jen, what's your perspective on this, Like, what makes this concept important to really take hold of?
Yeah, so it gives room for ourselves and others to find workable solutions, rhythms, ways of life. It allows like flexibility for different people from different walks of life. I think a lot of the times we get so passionate about our financial ideologies or just any ideologies, and we think because it works for me, it can work for anybody, and that it should work for everybody. And like what Jill just said, the radical middle looks different for everyone.
So something that may seem radical, that may be extreme to me, may not be extreme to you. And we always say, like in frugality, like we say values based spending, but there is this caveat where when it's unhealthy, we say, like you should spend based on your values as long as what you value is what I value. I won't judge you if what you value is what I value. But there is actually freedom for somebody to value something
to a degree that you do not. And so that's kind of where the radical middle is important, is forgiving ourselves grace when we may look different from the people around us or on social media, and giving others grace for looking different.
I think inherently in this concept of the radical middle is a cautionary tale about life lived in extremes. It can be damaging. So a part of us saying this and leading a lifestyle of finding the radical middle is also pushing against some of these more radicalized extremes that we might be drawn to, but recognizing if we set up camp there for too long that it can be
damaging to ourselves and others. Because when we live in extremes, whatever that is, lifestyle, politics, ideology, you name it, it is and requires a tight grip on that one thing. And depending on how deeply we go into that one thing, that one extreme, it is going to be to the exclusion of all of the other things. We're not then taking any of the good things from the other side. A lot of times that means we're living in echo chambers.
We're not being challenged by alternative ideas or approaches or thoughts. We're not giving ourselves freedom and flexibility to change our our minds or even recognize if it's benefiting us anymore. And in best case scenario, we're just going to be isolated to some extent. You cannot live in an extreme set up camp there for long term and not be
isolated in some way. And so I think this concept is important just for that reality of allowing ongoing evolving and morphing and shifting and changing and growing, because you're not going to be able to grow if you don't allow the influence of these various other ideas concepts, freedom and flexibility for yourself.
Yeah, and I'll add that when you're very at the very beginning, starting out, that it is not bad to kind of one hundred percent follow what somebody that you like is saying about how to do money. That's not when you have no idea what to do, you need an anchor to hold you to something. But what is unhealthy is that once you are in it, and you're living in it for a period of time, that you
don't reevaluate where that anchor has been set. So once you learn, you should always be learning anything, but especially in finance, once you learn about debt saving investing, that you should be learning how that applies to your life and if the person or article on the internet that you're reading actually positively applies to you. Which is why we go through so many articles on the internet is to try and help you parse that out. So living in the radical middle means, yes, you can start from
somewhere that may be a little extreme. That's fine, but finding where you sit on that spectrum, on that pendulum, like where is right for you, and it's unhealthy if you don't do that, if you just stay in the camp and reject like any like shift, any change in mind, any choices, anything that's different, if you reject that.
That's such a good point because I do think it's important to highlight we can visit these extremes and we will and we do, and we won't be able to stop. There is just a reality to the pendulum like it will swing, especially when prompted by some sort of life event or crisis moment. We will often visit these extremes, and even if unprompted by a crisis moment, in life. We can choose to visit an extreme to understand it. But that's where the caution comes in is how long
do we set up camp in that extreme? But I do think it's valuable to do it. Would say Eric and I visited the extreme of living in a vehicle. It was beneficial to us. I love that we did it. At the time. It was a version of a radical middle for us. And now it led us to what do we want next for ourselves. We didn't lock ourselves into we've got to stay living in this one hundred and seventy square feet What is the next step? How has this informed what we want to do in the future.
So visit the extremes, but don't pull out your tent and your pots and your pans and then like start building a home there.
Yeah. And I don't think there's any better example of visiting extremes than a no spend challenge.
Yeah.
A no spend challenge is an extreme experiment in not spending any of your discretionary income on anything for a period of time, and we recommend thirty days. We know there are people who have written books about doing it for a year or two years, and that is extreme for most people, and that's why they're popular on social media and they got book deals about it. Because it's extreme, that's not going to be the best route for most people.
If you can visit the extreme of not spending money on anything, then you can get all the value that comes with the reflection of taking time and taking space to think about your spending and the money that you save by not having the decision fatigue to say yes or no to an expense. When your answer is no, you free up a lot of your mental energy for
other decisions. And so there are so many benefits to a no spend challenge, but those benefits are really at most best seen around thirty days, and some people need more, some people need less. That's where we say things can vary, but I think that's probably the best example of visiting an extreme but where it can get it's healthy to visit, it's unhealthy to camp out.
Well from there, I think it helps us to implement creativity and problem solving skills, to consider ways of living that aren't entirely restrictive, but instead maybe pleasantly boundaried, where we can experience the reality of not deprivation, but maybe occasional sacrifice so we can visit the extremes to learn from them. Like to keep using your example, Jen of the no Spend challenge, we visit there for thirty days, we learn from it, We implement that knowledge, and we
might make minor shifts to our regular, ongoing lifestyle. And that takes creativity, problem solving, introspection, reflection, implementation, and these are all skill sets that benefit us in other aspects of our personhood. Again, just underscoring why the radical middle is so important. As we keep finding ways to hold that tension, our lifestyles will benefit.
So some examples of what this means for our finances. So we in our first episode on the Radical Middle, we talked to specifically about budgeting. So like I would argue, most people see budgeting as an extreme. If I can't keep my budget perfectly, I quit and try again next month. And that is living in an extreme. It's either I do it perfectly or I don't do it at all.
When really in the radical middle, it means having space to make a mistake or not even a mistake, having space to pivot in life or choose something different and reevaluate. It's having that space to change your mind or accept the choices of others that have impacted you. So that's how kind of the radical middle shows itself up in budgeting, but it can show itself in other places. So earning money your career, we are going through this right now.
So there are schools of thought that hate frugality because they think you should just earn as much as you can. Forget frugality, Just earn, earn, earn, just focus all of your energy there. And then you've got the other end of the spectrum, which is the frugal people that are like live on a dollar a day, extreme frugality sort of people. Where we view the radical middle of that is to be very intentional with your time, to make sure that the time you spend earning money is getting
you the biggest ROI possible. So not just quiet quitting or like showing up and doing the minimum at work, but always doing things that will either be getting you some kind of promotion within your job or could be beneficial for moving forward with another job. Always making the most of your time at work for yourself, not necessarily for the company. Obviously, when you benefit the companies, that often does come back to you. But we're looking We're not looking to put in eighty hours a week to
further somebody else's business. We're looking to further the business of us so that we can make money. And we're also looking at decreasing our expenses so that we don't let lifestyle inflation eat away at all of our increasing income. And so it's not either or it's both and so, and this shows up. It can show up in investing. I'll talk a little bit about that example later. But all these different ways where we see debt, there are people see good debt bad debt, or all debt bad
or all debt good. Those are all those are all mindsets within personal finance. You will see I can name names for every single one of those.
But we won't.
But we won't. In reality, debt is neutral. How you use debt makes it beneficial for your finances or detrimental. And so it's finding out where debt sits on your personal scale, like how you feel about it, how you feel having it, and where it sits on the math scale. What is what are the numbers, the interest rates, the loan amounts are they actually doing for your finances? So it's not saying all debt is bad all debt is good. I'm paying off all my debt. I'm not paying off
any of my debt. It's finding the middle for you, what's right for you.
Those critical thinking skills are so beautiful and they don't come without visiting some of these extremes, without considering ourselves, our wants, our desires, our skill sets, our capacities, and rather than just adopting someone else's blueprint for us, which could work for a time, but then implementing this critical thought that you're describing jen to take greater ownership of ourselves, of our circumstances, and to get after what we actually
value and being able to find how can I negotiate this to experience a both and and not feel as though I'm always depriving myself of something in order to live in this extreme that's being sold to me by somebody out there. But instead, what is it that you want to do? And it's okay that it be a sprinkling and smattering of a variety of things that don't look extreme. That's radical. Yes, Okay, let's talk about how to do it.
How do you do it?
Jill, Oh, let's get in to it. We've broken it down into some four steps. It's kind of still loosey goosey. Who knows, there's probably six? You know us, there's probably goosey goosey. Yeah, but your worst. If you're looking for a framework, here's a version of a blueprint for you. First identify the extremes that you feel drawn to or pulled between. A couple of examples could be do you feel as though you feel pulled between saving or spending?
That it's always either or that, well, I have to just be saving every single penny I can't spend at all. Or is it this is my life and I want to live it, and you I worked hard for this money, I want to spend it. I want to spend it all the way up until my paycheck's gone, saving or spending. Is it that you often feel pulled between deprivation or extravagance. I either have to never ever go out to eat, or I want to go out to eat for every single meal, I never ever want to cook at home.
Does it often feel like I am always choosing between having fun now or fun later? Aki vacations versus retirement, Like if I go on this vacation, that means I'm sacrificing whatever my retirement's going to look like. The more vacations I take now, the longer I'm going to have to work and to my seventies or eighties or nineties. Like, what is it that you feel pulled between? And what do you feel drawn to? Do you primarily live in?
The saving camp or the spending camp, the deprivation or the extravagance, All of these things are going to tell us more about ourselves and fun fact, this is also tied into some work that is helpful in understanding values based spending and all these other concepts that we talk
about with prioritization. But as it relates to the radical middle, even just beginning to think through what extremes do I often live in and where does it feel like to do this, I am drastically giving up this other thing. Who are the people you primarily follow on social media? Where are you primarily spending your money? Where is your savings going to? These will be some good indicator signs of the types of extremes you may be living in.
So once you identify some of the extremes that you either feel drawn to or have been pulled into, next consider why you're drawn to them or how you became pulled into them. So a lot of the times it is books that we have read, mentors in our life, people on social media. I think those are probably the top three is social media influencers including YouTube, people in our lives, and books we have read on personal finance.
So think about the ways that you have been drawn into streams and think about the validity, maybe why this person thinks this way, how it is similar to the way you think, and how it is different. Because understanding why people come to the conclusions they come to is important for figuring out why they say the things that they say. And this will not be a fast process. You will not be able to sit down and do this in an hour. This is stuff that comes to
you throughout your journey. But once you know the questions, then you know to look for the answers. So thinking about, okay, this is what I've been told. Like my uncle has read Rich Dad, Poor Dad and now thinks that real estate investing is for everyone and investing in gold is it? Why Why does he think that, Well, he read a book and he had one good real estate deal. Maybe
I don't know. Whatever the story is, think about why the words you're hearing are being said and how they relate to where you are in life and what you are thinking.
Yeah, and that will ultimately be an indicator more about yourself too. What is it about me that is drawn to this thing that I'm reading or watching or doing? And it will help us know even a little bit about our core values. For me, I think one of the things that I can feel drawn to is saving. I'm definitely much more of a saveror than a spender. But to find the radical middle, I need to be willing to spend. But as I move into step number two of considering why am I drawn to that, part
of it has to do with security. I have had experiences of kind of really being without for a while a job is low, lost, or life situations and circumstances shift, and feeling like I want to be prepared, and having a hefty savings account feels like security to me. That's valuable. I need to value that in myself. It is a part of who I am. It's a part of my experiences, and it's wisdom to pay attention to that. But to what extreme. To the extreme of I then live under
a rack. I never go out even though I have the means to no, and so I think that's where we can move into number three, which is to brainstorm ways to move towards this concept of both and instead of either or. So once you have this sense of the few things, maybe it's two to three extremes that you might feel drawn to as it relates to your finances, begin to think about, well, what are the benefits of
either ends of the spectrum. Is there a way for me to experience both and and really hold that tension rather than just choosing this or that. So I just gave my example of saving and spending, and part of that for me includes what amount can I reasonably feel comfortable with in an emergency fund and investing for retirement, and then can spend and create a spending plan outside of that. And that's taken me some time to get there, and it still does include spreadsheets and it includes solid
numbers for me to feel secure about that. But I have found the tension between those two things where it is not all just saving with me, there is spending as well, because I know my core values and what I want to be spending on. I think we can see this as well with maybe how can I vacation now and invest for retirement. What is that radical middle where I get to enjoy at least once a year with my family, doing something fun, taking a break, and it doesn't feel like I'm sacrificing a year of my
retirement to do so. How can I find the permission to spend and save? What if I were to both pay off debt and invest? How does that feel to do both simultaneously? Is their room to live the radical middle in that regard with my finances? And I would say yes, We would say yes. You have to find what's comfortable for you, what's going to feel like holding the tension for you, but beginning to think about and even opening up some of those new neural pathways to
consider It doesn't have to be a binary. What if I kind of got the best of both worlds and this isn't looking at it through rose colored glasses like you can have it all. You can have your cake and eat it too. It will mean some sacrifice, sometimes saying no, sometimes saying yes, getting a little bit of this, a little bit of that, And it's not just all of this or all of that.
Yeah, it would definitely be easier to just have endless amounts of money to do both without making critical spending decisions.
That's not this podcast. We're not there right.
Ideally, yes, that is easier, and that's what we all want, but ninety percent of our lives that is not going to happen. Even when you make more, you're not going to think it's enough, especially with inflation. So get out of the mindset that says I'll do this when I make more, or I'll do this when I have fewer expenses. That's an extreme mindset. Live in the middle that says, how can I how can I do both? And and
it's going to be smaller. And this doesn't compete necessarily with our idea that you should focus on one thing at a time, like goal wise, but this is more of like ideology based. And then also just like practical living, you should say for vacations because those are good for your soul. You also should invest for retirement because that's good for your eighty year old old culture. Yeah you're eighty year old soul. So those are not competing goals.
Those are just things that should be part of your financial plan. And sometimes we're tricked into thinking that getting to the right place to invest is actually a goal we don't believe that is, and it might also I just thought be confusing to think like I don't know what my extremes are. I don't know enough to know
what the extremes are. It's probably the things, the financial things that are making most stressed, the things you feel most anxious about, and or things anything that brings you guilt. So if it's stretching me out, making you anxious, making me guilty, that is probably a space where you need to investigate if you're in an extreme. So that's kind of like a wanted to add that in, But that brings us to our fourth step to living in the radical middle is to continue to cultivate a mindset and
inner monologue that pushes against binary options. So that's Jill's beautiful way of saying that, But ultimately it's just creating the words inside your head that say, what's the third option here? Like, yes, it would be easier if I just had all the money and I could invest, but like, what's the third option? How can I do both? And a lot of the times we talk about it in the sense of like if you're talking about growth mindset, people will say like limiting mindset says no. Growth mindset
says how And that's kind of this. You really do need to be cultivating a growth mindset in order to fully live in the radical middle, because you do need to continue to cultivate that growth mindset that looks for the third option, that looks for the middle. Honestly, there's more than three options, because there's not just an extreme
on one end, extreme on the other, and middle. There are many points on the middle road and then and you could be like just just a step inside the extreme or just you know, step inside the other extreme, So your middle looks differently, and so you just need to know the questions to ask to look for that option.
Do you know what's an example of another radical middle? Super flexible, vague, multiple points of entry.
I might say it's extreme because it's the only thing, and I will allow in the middle segment of the show, the middle of the week.
That's right, it's time for the best minute of your entire week.
Maybe a baby was born and his name is Williams.
Maybe you've paid off your mortgage, Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore.
Be'st bills but blow bills. Bill Clinton, this is the bill of the week.
Hi Jen and Jill, this is brief from Indiana. I like to say that I have been spending the past year trying to catch up with your guys' podcast, and I'm finally caught up. I feel bad for my baby because that's all she gets to listen to while we're in the car. I have two bills of the week. First bill of the week is the fact that I just started paying rent for a place for my baby
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Bye, oh Brie. Don't you feel bad for that baby girl. She's getting some good education. She's going to come out and her first words are going to be double of the week, which is what we're currently working on for my baby. So we'll see who's gets there first.
We tried it with Kai it didn't work, but I think Atlas is going to come through for us.
I do think so. We do love a double bill.
Almost as much as a double cheeseburger so or a double hot dog. I don't even know what that is, but I bet they make them. Thank you so much.
We are so proud of you, Brie.
Yeah, it does sound like you're in a difficult spot just with personal life, but making it through and being resilient, and this is just a beautiful thing to be able to make your rent payment and receive an unexpected check. I'm sure that's helping you a ton, and we're so glad to be caught up with you.
We will share this with Allison because she will love to hear this. This will make her day. Thank you so much, Brie.
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So in our vulnerability around, let's fill our cups with vulnerability one way your current what stop? What's one way? You're currently living in the radical middle?
Go for it? John, you since you love this vulnerability juice and our cup.
I do so. I alluded to this earlier. Investing right now is probably top of mind the most recent radical mental decision that I had to make. So I have always been more towards the extreme end of the investing spectrum. Before I learned how investing should work in my life, I was following like the fire financial independence retire early, and I was like maxing out roth Ira vour o one K's HSA is like I was. It was very extreme on it, and then a life circumstance forced me.
Having a child forced me to find that middle ground a little more middle. But we've still always been very aggressive because something that I know for me, and something i'm is extreme for me, is that you will always save more money by investing early versus starting later when you feel like you quote unquote have more, you will never be able to catch back up versus just starting small now. So that is a math fact unless you're like really going hard later, which most people will not.
So I've always been very on the more extreme side with investing because of that, because I know I'm in my youth, or I was in my youth. I don't know if I still am. But Travis just took a job. You have you now, I have some youth left. Travis just took a job that is a significant pay cut because it has better hours, and so we were able to choose that because of the values based spending we do in the values based earning, we were able to choose that for him. It's a much better work life
balance and he's really enjoying it so far. But it is an extreme pay cut. And we just put our second child into daycare. The first one's out of daycare. But I turned off our retirement investing. I just turned it completely off. Granted we did invest all the way through the first half of the year, maxed out still
like half doubt. The rath Ira two rath Iras for the year, but we are just not at a place where we can afford right now to invest one thousand dollars a month, and so kind of visiting the other extreme right now, but knowing that we still actually are renovating our house, which is technically a real estate investment because we rent out the backside. So we're still doing that and in the new year plan to go back
to halfng out our rapi A right. So that was a huge hit for me mentally and emotionally.
Yeah, that is the big deal.
Because I've always been so bullish on investing and to turn that off, it was that or take Atlas out of daycare, and that can't make money at all if that happens, yeah, because I can't focus. So yeah, So that's my radical middle with investing right now. Right now it's totally off. But we also were able to do that, and I did the calculations that we have invested so much that we could turn it off for four years and then start maxing it out again and still be
able to retire on time. Wow, so retired. But I love it when the math maths. The math is math in because we started so early, and we started so aggressively that we will overall have to invest less and get the same result as if we had just started later and invested more.
It's so difficult, I understand, particularly for you, with how much we've talked about this and how much of an expert you are on this topic. But yet it's also so refreshing because I think we all hit those points in life. Life is not this kind of ho hum linear trajectory, or for most of us even just this steady upward trajectory that's more like a roller coaster where there are ups and downs, some chosen, some that happened to us, and really trying to make the best decisions
and how to leverage this season. What do I have freedom for what do I value the most? And you know, we talk about values based spending, but that goes into a values based lifestyle that there are some of us who might practice, you know, various types of frugality and in different seasons, go more extreme in one way versus another way, so that we can also live a lifestyle
that we want, not just buy what we want. But you guys are getting time back and family togetherness while your children are young, and there is a value to that. You might be sacrificing a little bit of money or a little bit of investment, but you are getting something in return and kind of holding the tension there. So I find it quite refreshing and I appreciate that we get to share this with our listeners because I do think a lot of people are going to resonate with
this reality. And again, you're not describing that this is going to be a long term lifestyle. This is what needs to happen for right now as you work on other things.
Yeah, this turnoff is for six months. Yeah. Again, still support investing as much as you can every single month, even if it's just a little investing something every month. But I mean, we've half doubt our rapae ara and that's kind of where we've been sitting if we planned to half it out, half out two of them just for the next few years. But it could change also if Frugal Friends starts to make more money, so that's also something.
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Yeah, no, it's totally free for you. But the more people we have sign up for the friend letter, the more we can charge for brand partners in it. So yeah, thank you, thank you for clicking the links to our brand partners.
And for me, I'll pull this up a little bit, not as big picture, but eating at home. You hear me talk about this a lot, but in my movement towards eating at home, which in part has happened because I've taken a pay cut in order to focus more on this joy of mine, which is getting to talk with Jen all the time and being in your ears
on a regular basis. In order for me to do that, I stepped way far back from some of my other roles that I have, my money making roles, and so that has meant some financial shifts for us as well, at one of which is really cutting back some of our spending around food, which is meant more eating at home. But me, when I say eating at home, yeah, sometimes that means I've done the whole meal plan, I've grocery shopped my ingredients, I've shot my pantry and using up
what's in my freezer. Sometimes I'm really crushing that. And other times eating at home means I've gotten prepared meals from the market or getting a meal delivery kit because it helps me for that week or that month with being able to reduce my overall food costs. Might be a little bit more expensive than if I had just gotten the ingredients and shop the groceries, but it's not as expensive as going out to eat, paying tip all
of the things that go along with that. So I love to just have those different options and not feel so boxed in or stringent with what it looks like to eat at home and still creating some fun and newness and excitement around the reality of trying to save money on food.
So good, Well, thank you so much for listening to this. This episode is obviously very close to our hearts since it was all original thoughts, so please let us know what you thought of it if you have the time, leaving a rating and view in Apple Podcasts, and also sign up for the friend letter Frugal friendspodcast dot com slash friend letter, and you can reply to us at any of those friend letters. We are the friends on
the other side of the friend letter. It's either us or Goldie, and we see you and we will respond to you. And so we want to know how we can best help you figure out what the extremes are in your financial life and how to navigate them better and find your unique radical middle. So until next.
Time, Thanks everyone, see you next time.
Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni Jill.
Yeah. Oh it's the day after my birthday.
Yes, yeah, happy, but late birthday at this point, but early birthday. From the time we're recording this, we are now again the same age. So you can't say that I'm old or that I'm out of touch.
I can say you're older than me. That'll always right, But.
We are the same age now, I'm older than you by four months.
We are rocking thirty four.
Thirty four looks good. I'm not gonna lie.
It looks we're holding the radical middle between our elder years and our youthful years. What are we going to do with it? Jen, What are we doing with our thirty fourth year.
Writing a book? Oh yeah, yeah, that's what we're doing.
And we're talking about the radical middle in our book, which is fun.
Yeah, these ideas are all going to be in there, so sometime release in twenty twenty five.
It will be done. By the time our thirty fourths years.
Are over, we will.
Yeah, you'll have a little bit more to write than me, but yeah, by the time we're thirty five. Wow.
Yeah, it's a good thing to do at thirty four. Highly recommend it writing down all of your thoughts so that way you can go back at forty four and be like, oh my gosh, I was so silly, because who does it like look at all the things you thought at twenty four and say, oh my gosh, I was so silly. Yeah, and I'm sure we'll think the same at forty four.
Maybe Horror will be like, man, we just had aged wisdom. I would say, nothing new, nothing different.
Everything I had I peaked at thirty four.
I also don't want to say that either new.
Yikes.
Okay, here's what we can say. What a beautiful launching point. It has made me what I am now at forty four. Yeah, and then fifty four will be like, we don't freaking care sixty four. Who the heck knows, who the heck knows.
We'll see