Episode four fifty two, What if You're not lazy? What if You're a Perfectionist? With Monica Packer.
Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, and live a life here your hosts Jen and Jill.
Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen, my name is Jill. And today on the show, we are sharing a wonderful conversation we had with our friend Monica from about progress on perfectionism.
She's so relatable, she's so kind. You're welcome. You're gonna walk away feeling so good about yourself, probably better than you feel if you're listening to most of our podcast at least.
Like with Freedom, you're gonna walk away feeling some more freedom and flexibility in what you do financially, I mean actually like just in life in general. We do always try to focus on the financial aspect, but really there is a lot of freedom in this conversation that I walked.
Away with and potentially some aha moments about yourself ethan So, but first, this episode is brought to you by Checklist, Convenient, helpful little guides to getting tasks completed When our brains just can't brain anymore. Checklists are great for all us organizing type A leaning extremely motivated gals who like the satisfaction of checking off items on that list. And speaking of checking off a to do item, have you pre ordered our book By What you Love Without Going Broke?
If not, write it on your to do list, quick do it at buywoulovebook dot com and then check it off instant feeling of accomplishment. You won't regret it. Get our book By What you Love Without Going Broke at buy what you Love book dot com. We're so excited about it. And you know what, Monica read the book because we do have advanced reader copies currently that we're giving out to different people to see what they think
about it. And she really liked it. And because she liked it, she said that she would come and be a guest on our show. And so now you have it.
And we were. I was a guest on her show a few weeks ago, so, and I was talking about some of the things in the book as they relate to progress not perfection.
Yeah, she said that there is a lot of congruence with what she talks about. And you'll hear it if you've been listening to Frugal Friends for a while and then you listen to this interview, you're going to think that we fed her terminology ahead of time. We didn't. We're just that aligned, which is fun, but alignment but not necessarily on the same exact topic. So she's bringing a fun, new perspective, helpful perspective.
Yeah, it's not a regurgitation. It's definitely and I said this at the end of the interview, puts some words to some concepts that we may have been taking for granted or may not have been able to explain well. So I love that. So if this is something that you're into, a few good ones to queue up for after this. Episode three forty two, The Importance of Honoring your season. We talk a little bit about seasons in this one, and then episode two seventy two Managing Money
the Lazy Genius Way with Kendra Adachi. We talk a little bit about prioritizing and how do you choose your next steps? And I think that one's a good one to expound on that concept. But Monica Packer is a normal mom and recovering perfectionist who helps women do the same thing as a podcaster and a coach. She guides them to find sustainable growth and adopt progress over perfection. She's a mom of five, I've former teacher, and she bakes sour dough man.
I wish I would have connected with her about that one.
Yeah, that's cool, So let's get into it.
Let's do what.
Monica. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. We're so excited to have you here. I have been so looking forward to this.
This is a fun topic for me because I think this is an area we often don't look at of we often can focus on the I don't want to look at these things. I feel too lazy with whatever. But we've also got a lot of people in the population who are like, no, I'm a rule follower and I'm a checklister and I aim at perfection and that can also be a barrier to finances. So I'm so excited to get your interest on this.
Yes, all right, So, as as an expert on this perfectionism, what are maybe some of the the signs that I'm a perfectionist and not lazy? Like, how do you define it? What do you look for?
First of all, I think we have to own the fact that When most people think of a perfectionist, they think of almost a humble brag, right, where someone's like, you know, I'm just such a perfectionist and I have to do, you know, And then there's like the kind
of chuckle, the knowing chuckle. But it's something that is so rewarded in our society and something that people honestly aspire to that and I was one of them for many years that a lot of people, when they think of a perfectionist, they would not picture themselves because they wouldn't picture someone who's always on that a wheel of hustling or burnout or high achieving or looking perfect or almost this unachievable person. And really, perfectionism is not just
about the stereotypical kind we're thinking of. Perfectionism goes so much deeper. And the truth about all this is that perfectionism is really a misplacement of identity. It's placing the sense of who we are on our outcomes, and in some perfectionists cases, it's their lack of outcomes. And perfectionism is a spectrum. We have the stereotypical kind that we just talked about, but we also have the non stereotypical kind.
And these are people who are on the sidelines of their own lives, people who may describe themselves as lazy, but they haven't started because of the same root of them placing their identity on their lack of outcomes or the fear of not having the outcome that they like. So while the stereotypical perfectionists are going to drive, drive, drive, do do do until they get there, and spoiler alert,
they never arrive. They never get there. The non stereotypical perfectionist either quit before they start or quit soon after they start, but all goes back to them blaming themselves about their supposed laziness. So this really can illuminate a lot of women's entire lives when they actually see, Oh you mean I'm not lazy, I'm actually a perfectionist. And the answer is yes. And it goes back to that very first point we made is we have to shift the way we're looking at perfectionism period.
Wow. I never thought about it as being attached to identity, but the way that you're describing it, it makes so much sense when it comes to our achievements and what we can kind of hang our hat on as what we've done. I can see the other side of the spectrum of how you're describing perfectionism being the reason that so many people don't do something like if I can't do it perfectly, then I'm not going to do it
at all. I recently heard someone say if I can't do it right, then we're not going to do it, and I think that they fell like that that was a good statement, and I'm like, it feels eerily similar to if I can't do it perfect then I'm not going to do it, and that's not a great place to start. Like, the fear of failure really is what's keeping so many people from various goals. I imagine financial
as well. So I'm curious from your perspective how you think maybe identifying oneself as oh, it might be perfectionism that I'm dealing with, how that might impact finances negatively or non beneficially.
So when I talk about perfectionism, one thing I need to always highlight is that there is a price being paid for perfectionists. And whether it's the well, let's talk about the stereotypical perfectionist. There's the things you see, you see, the outcomes, you see, the accohades you see. This perfect almost unreachable person. But what you don't know is what prices they are paying that are often silent or behind
what you can see. And for me that was massive mental health struggles, including depression and eating disorders, suicidal ideation, but also bigger thing for me was a detachment from other people, like I was just too busy trying to be on a pedestal that was really hard to connect
with people. For the non stereotypical kind that what price are you paying to It can be the price of resentment because you always wish you could have done something, or you're jealous of other people and what they're doing, or just that whole feeling of feeling stuck and like you're always waiting, or that you're never the one who gets what they want or works towards what they want. So there are prices being paid, and that often is literal.
And so when we're talking about finances, I think it goes back to one of the ways that we have to shift our relationship, like as a society, our relationship with perfectionism is we have to stop believing in not all or nothing lie that you just brought up.
I either do it right or I don't do.
It all at all, that's all or nothing, And honestly, you're either paying the price of all or you are paying the price of nothing. And most of the time people end up somehow and then nothing, because burnout is real if you're the stereotypical kind of the perfectionist. So if we shift the way we see perfectionism, we have to shift the way we look at progress, which is that true, sustainable, lasting, and even massive growth happens over time. It's something I call the process of small winds build
over time. And I mean, what's the finance phrase for that, right, compound effect. So if you are stuck in that place of thinking it's all or nothing, either I'm investing in all the things, or I'm doing this like super rigid budget. I line eyed on every single thing. There is no room for flexibility, there's no room for failure that can get you into that I'm paying a price place, and what is that price that you're paying? And I think
anyone listening can answer that for themselves. Well, I pay the price because I haven't invested in dying because I've been too scared about doing it right, or I've been waiting until I have a good amount of money or the right job or whatever.
It may be.
Or I wait to budget or to even think about where I want my expenses to go because I feel like a failure when I look at that stuff. When I see where my money's going, I look at like a I feel like a failure. Same thing with the perfectionists, the stereotypical kind. So think about that. What price are you paying because of this whole thing. You're getting caught up and this all or nothing pendulum swing when it really just fails everybody.
Yeah, I feel that so deeply because that was me for most of my life and I took it on as an identity. Right, I'm an all or nothing person. I either I go to the extreme or I don't do it, and that it kept me back from budgeting. And it's one of the reasons I have such a negative idea of budgeting, because I made this perfect budget. If I can't do it, it's like then it's something wrong with me, and I'm not going to do it.
If I need to invest a thousand dollars of the month every month to become a millionaire and I can't afford to do that, what's the point in doing it? At all. I'm not going to save enough, you know, to retire or whatever. And these are all thoughts that I have had. And it's even after doing this podcast
for so many years. Yeah, still struggle with these things in finances and out And I was literally just thinking this morning about how for the past like six weeks I've been trying to eat better and I've seen very very little difference right in like anything body wise, energy wise, anything, but realizing and being told like, the difference doesn't come in six weeks. The difference isn't an up and to
the right line. Change doesn't happen like that. In compound interest, up until one hundred thousand dollars, your line is pretty straight. There's really no growth in your investments. And then you hit that one hundred k and you zoom out to a million and the line goes like straight up.
Wow.
So like I'm like learning holistically right now how much the id like the ideology of perfectionism has held me back.
And especially because we want the outcomes, right do we do want those things? And some people ask me like, well, then how do we still work on things if we don't want to be perfectionists? And the truth is not trying is still perfectionism, so it's hard to own it, right, it's a shift.
I've appreciated the connection that you've made not just to monetary costs, but other peripheral costs, like what is it costing us in what we're then not learning? The ways in which we're not growing, the ways in which we're not connecting with others or asking questions. There's so much more than just finances. I mean, certainly if we're not if we don't want to do it because we're scared
of failure, not doing it right or perfect, then we're not. Yeah, we're sacrificing the money stuff too, and what we could have been investing in the ways that that could have grown. But so many other pieces happening here too, if we could just be willing to experience maybe failure along the way and accept that. So that's a really helpful I think reframe to really tally up what's the loss here because it's not just monetary and what could be gained from maybe a different aim.
So what sort of mindset can we adopt instead? If we're starting to recognize that this all or nothing, extreme oriented mindset is holding us back, where do we go And I think we've talked a lot in spending we kind of call it the radical middle. But like, yeah, is what do you say, Like what kind of sort of mindset can we adopt? What's a better aim?
With mindset in particular, I would talk about two things. First, with the premise that you actually believe in this whole process we've been talking about. You believe in the compound effect. No one's going to invest their money and leave it in the stock market if they don't believe in this process. The overtime, things will build and it will look like it's not working for a really long time. But because you believe in it, you're willing to keep putting in
those small amounts of money. Right. So similarly, you have to believe in this whole idea of small ones building over time, whether it's your finances or you working on personal habits that you need to change, or even your relationships or parenting kids that are kind of hard. So with this, if you believe in the process, the next kind of mindset shift is instead of all or nothing,
you want to have the mindset of do something. And when I'm saying that, I'm not saying it in the toxic positivity tone that we hear out there so often, like today's your day, get up, do it all. You're the one responsible for your life and how you're feeling and how you're doing. It's like, no, it's it's not that, it's not do something like do it all. It's no, like do something and make that be your standard of where you start and also how you are building too.
That starting today with one small thing, whether it's if we're looking at finance stuff, like you're going to actually look at your bank accounts, like you're actually going to look today, that's something that's doing something. Whether you're going to call about a bill that needs to be negotiated
a bit, that is something. You're going to set up the meeting with the financial planner, which my husband and I finally did this year after years of knowing we needed to because like we actually have to figure out if we're on track to anything, you know, not because because we didn't do it because of that all or nothing thing. I'm like, we're not wealthy, Like does a financial planner even want to talk to us? Or we're not wealthy? Are we going to get scammed?
Yeah? You know your legitimate fears and concerns.
For sure, right, but just doing something of even sending an email about that, making an inquiry call or when later another do set thing of having the meeting, and then more do set things of like having a meeting together about the meeting, and you know it's all about that. That's really what it is. It's those but those jobs in the bucket that totally add up over time. So yeah, I think it's believe in that process that we talked about, but also be willing to do something.
I love this advice, and as I'm thinking about flushing it out, I'm curious your thoughts on where to begin, because if I were to think about my circumstances and the things that maybe and putting off from concern might not go the way that I want them to, there's a lot of them. How can someone who's experiencing this version of perfectionism maybe considering themselves lazy for putting it off and really we're finding out it's this other thing.
What are some steps or tips you might have on how to identify which one can be the one thing that I do.
So I know there's a lot of great advice out there about goals in particular, how you start with the end in mind and then you figure out what your goal is, then what will you have to do to get there? And then you write up all the steps and then you come up with the plan that is really helpful for certain people and about certain things.
But for some.
People, and actually i'd say many people, for certain things, whether it's help or wealth or parenting, like that is overwhelming. That's not a doucep thing. That's like a tremendous amount of work and energy and facing fears and things you're struggling with in general. So instead of doing all that, I would actually start at the beginning and just think about what is one way, one small way I can
do something to start. And of course that's going to be different for everybody, but regardless of what it is, doing something to start not only puts you on that path of the process to grow, it also creates momentum. And that momentum is both physical and mental energy, like it does carry power, like you will be able to ride a momentum wave too. Then what's next and what's next as long as you have that be your goal,
like how can I do something to start? And this is actually more of a mindset shift that I think will be helpful to bring up. Is you know, a lot of times we want to believe in the all or nothing because we want the end result right, And if we're acknowledging, like we're actually looking at things differently, that all doesn't get you to where you want. Doing nothing obviously doesn't either, but doing something does. It actually takes a lot of courage because you're used to doing
it the all or nothing way. And I had this client say this two years ago, I actually have a terrible memory. Like I love to read, I love to learn, but things just go in and out, in and out. And this is one of those things that someone said to me. And I've remembered a word for words, so if I'm remembering this, it's important. And we were talking about this whole idea of the process, and she was trying this new way, and for her it was a personal habit because I tend to coach women a lot
on habits. I didn't plan too, but there we are. And as she was trying this new way, she was realizing, Oh, you're right, Like it doesn't feel like I'm changing, but now I can see I am and then she said, I've learned it takes the greatest of courage to do the smallest of things. So yeah, do something to start, but have the courage to believe that these smallest of things matter and that's okay to do it different.
What I'm hearing you say is it almost doesn't matter if there is such a roadblock here about prioritizing in the beginning. Just something, Just pick the low hanging fruit and do it and see the momentum and the build that can happen from there. Yeah that's helpful.
Yeah, I love that because it is when you're not seeing change and when you're not seeing progress, that all or nothing mindset can creep back in and you feel like, why am I doing this? Nothing is changing? What is the point? But we're so used to in media, social or news or otherwise, the things that we see most
are these mountaintop moments. We see these really big sexy stories of overnight successes or big accomplishments like those are the stories were fed and so we're reinforced with this idea, idea that it can be done. This is average, not the exception, but the reason that we're seeing it on the news and in media is because it's the exception, and so I try to remember that I don't want I don't necessarily want to be the exception. I just
want to see change over time. And it's so hard because honestly, I do want to see changes every day, like I do want to see more numbers in my bank account, and like I do want to feel more energy in my close fit. Differently, I want all these different things to change at the rate that I am exerting effort to change. Yes, but I am the more
effort I exert change, the less I see. But that's that compound interest because when it's easier, when I don't think of it is change anymore, when I don't think of it as just doing something, it becomes a bit. That's when it all takes off.
Yeah, what can a person expect? Do you think if they're hearing this and they're saying, yeah, that's a good aim. What if I just aimed at progress small changes over time? What if I just did something? What do you think they can expect to experience? What barriers are you seeing for your clients and some of those initial stages of learning more about themselves and trying to just aim at progress. What might happen.
Well, the first is you have to face a lot of fear. And that's why we talked about how courage is so essential to this because there is going to be a lot of fear. Also, there's going to be a lot of fear as you're getting into it too, just like you talked about Jen, how all of a sudden you're like, wait, am I doing this right? Because I'm not seeing it, I'm not seeing the results I want.
There's going to be frustration with that too. There's going to be discouragement, there's going to be a questioning like of all this. So actually, this is one of the things I end up talking to with a lot of women that I'm coaching through is all of these things. And my answer to them is always, you're doing it right. If this is how you're feeling, If you're feeling like things are messy, you're messing up here and there, it's not straightforward, it's just so slow, or it's or it's
still frustrating. Like, then you're doing it right. You are doing it right. And as part of that, expect failure. You know, failure isn't just part of the process, it's an essential part. We have to shift our relationship with failure. And this all goes back to the whole conversation we've been having about perfectionists. I mean, so much of what they're hiding from, whether they're hustling or they're on the sidelines,
is they're hiding from failure. So as we're rewiring the way that we see what change actually looks like in growth, we also have to change our relationship with failure to welcome in in. I mean it's not fun. I'm not saying like, let's have a party every time we fail or like something to be proud and no, it's just
more expect it and accept it. And when you do learn from it in a different way, it's about getting curious about it and also objective about it, about how these failures can inform us to move forward in a different way, how it can inform the little tweaks we do need to make as we move forward. So expect a mess. I mean, guys, what I teach is not sexy. Talking about what's not sexy, Right, It's hard to market that, like because people want they want that overnight success desperately,
and that is so easy to sell. And since I'm in the personal development world, and you guys are in the money world. You know this in your world. I know this is mine. The people who make a lot of money are selling the overnight success and in truth, they're selling lives. Oh they're using a couple exceptions to sell that life, right, I don't believe in that.
Hiding their own cumulative journey over time.
Yes, or they're hiding the price they paid or.
The privilege that elevated them from the beginning.
Yes.
Absolutely, Like I'm getting chills when you say that.
Yes, because we've seen it, because we know that you're not wrong.
Oh yeah, and since I know you too, and I know myself. Obviously, we're doing things differently. We're trying to be ethical about what we're actually teaching people. So when I say expect a mess, I'm saying that so people actually know when they're in it, they're doing it right. To stay the course, that is what to expect. It will not be easy, but it will be better, it
will be more sustainable, and it will be exponential. Really, I have changed exponentially since I've actually owned doing something instead of being the all or nothing pendulum swing.
Yeah, Oh, that's so helpful. Can you walk us through this is a little bit more like intimate if you like, I share it, so, either for you or for a client, like a sure time where there was a mistake or quote unquote failure, kind of how that gets handled. I know you just talked a little bit about some like curiosity and objectivity, but kind of the real nitty gritty of Yep, a mistake happened. I'm still aiming at progress, But holy moly, what do I do with this?
So I'll do one that's a little deeper, and then I'll do one a little practical, and I'll try not to do a long version of each. Okay, okay, And the deeper one that first came up for me is one of the biggest testaments to the process in my life was recovering from eating disorders that started at the end of my overachieving perfectionist career and then turned into my underachieving perfectionism career out of self protection.
Right.
There were literal years I was convinced I was not getting better, and early on in my recovery, I remember going to like my therapist maybe two months and then being like, so things are getting worse.
Not better.
And I'm mad. I'm mad because I'm doing everything right. I am hustling, I'm working hard, I am like extra vigilant, and things are getting worse, not better. And thankfully this therapist told me, Monica, you will likely struggle with this the rest of your life. Now, for many people, that would be very depressing to hear. For me, it was release. It gave me permission to struggle, to not fix it overnight.
Now I'm over eighteen years into my recovery, and I can tell you I don't struggle with that, even though he told me it would likely be a lifelong thing. And it gave me that permission to struggle because I had that permission to make mistakes as I went for it to not be easy to slip back into old patterns or have new patterns that kind of creep up.
Like all of that.
I can now tell you eighteen years later that I am a different person that I do not struggle in the same way that I did. And yet Monica eighteen years ago was convinced it was not happening. Even like four or five years in, I was convinced I wasn't changing. Now I've had that same pattern repeat with I have special needs kids. I have out of my five kids three so far, no, actually four. We just got another diagnosis. We're like an alphabet soup of diagnoses in our family.
There's been huge things there that I could talk about forever that have shown me that change does happen over time. It just takes time. In my marriage and our finance is all that for sure. But if we're going to go really practical, I told you I often coach women on habit formation. I actually started to coach women on identity and fulfillment, and habits had to come along for the ride because that's what made those things possible in our.
Day to day lives.
And I am working with a woman who is trying to install some creative time after lunch each day, and we started with the baseline for her, the smallest and simplest way to do something to work on this bigger habit. She eventually wants like thirty minutes of it, but now she's just starting with four minutes because she can do that. On the worst day and her first day doing it, she came back to me and she said that wasn't
really frustrating four minutes. It actually didn't feel good, Like I wanted this habit because of how it helps me feel like myself, and instead the whole time I was drawing that for those four minutes, I just felt stuck. And that's where we had to if we're talking about how to practically move these through these things, we had to get some information, Like we had to zoom out and say like, well, what was going on in your day in your circumstances, and that illuminated some of that frustration.
And then we also had to zoom in a bit like what's going on internally? Why is this hard? And a lot of times it just has to do with we're training our brains. And her brain is not used to drawing at all right now, because she's been putting it on the back burner for so long because she wanted the quote unquote right amount of time to do it, and she also wanted to do it right and to have a good end product. Right, So she honestly is
just training her brain to be uncomfortable. She's training her brain to make mistakes so that she can become a better artist, so that she can find more fulfillment in
her creativity. For some reason, you know, she thought, well, creativity means fulfillment, and it's true it does, but that also doesn't mean it's absent of frustration, and so working through it, we also were able to figure out tactically, tactfully I always say this word wrong, we were able to figure out practically there we are able to say different word altogether, Like if there were some tweaks we could make to how she was doing the habit, and
we do this with other women sometimes there's just tweaks. Okay, let's let this failure inform how we're going to tweak the plan for her. It wasn't that it was so. It was more about being willing to be uncomfortable for four minutes until it gradually felt less uncomfortab and then to gradually work out the time.
Great examples. I feel like this helps me to even reframe how you were describing, reframing failure, what it means, how we're defining it, what we then need to do as a result for whatever we're thinking is a mistake or whatever we're thinking isn't working. I so appreciate your vulnerability, Monica.
Thanks for sharing a bit about all of your past experiences and where you find yourself now and I can resonate with this idea of being able to embrace some of the struggle and some of the permission that you may carry this for forever. But that doesn't mean that there's that there can't be hope in it either. But I think if we were told that it could look this amazing, bright, flowery, sunny way, that could devastate us
even more because we're not there. But instead to be able to hear you'll never get perfect with your finances, you'll never make a perfect budget, you'll never have a perfect retirement plan, like no matter how much you know. These things are almost freedom and permission giving to be able to say, oh, Okay, I don't feel good at it now because I'm new to it, but that does but I also will probably not feel great, like perfect
at it in ten years from now. So might as well start now, Start making my mistakes, now, have the opportunity to learn from it, be able to get better, but still know that there's no actual end goal here. In a perfect kind of way, there's just the as you describe progress that can happen.
Yeah, there's no arrival.
Yeah, given words to a lot of the things we've felt about how to do like how to spend money, Like you'll never say no to every impulse purchase, you'll never be perfect at spending money, and like we've given ourselves permission to to not be perfect. But it's hard. It's been hard to like you have the words to say why, And I think you've really given us those words today.
All that makes me so encouraged, especially as someone who loves both of your work so much. It's nice when they can meet, you know.
Do you know what else I like having a meeting?
Yeah, what's about righting the bill of the week.
That's right, it's time for the best minute of your entire week.
Maybe a baby was born and his name is William.
Maybe you've paid off your mortgage, maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. That bills, Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton, this is the bill of the week, Monico.
We had prepared you for the yelling, so yes, I hope it wasn't too abrasive. But every week we yell at our listeners and our guests and invite them to share with us their bill for the week, and we are excited to hear yours.
So my bill of the week is I I just a quick backstory on this as I grew up in like I mean speaking of frugal friends, the most frugal household ever, but to the point of it being like not that great, like not that necessary and also not that great.
No need to explain, we get that. Yes, I know you do.
I know you do.
And so it's been a real challenge for me as an adult to navigate that whole all or nothing pendulum swing of budgeting and managing our money. Like in the beginning of our early married life, like I was, you know, given the role of being the fin financial manager of our family, and there was an Excel spreadsheet with every single purchase under every single category. And then five years later I was like, I can't do this anymore. And then I didn't budget at all for like ten years.
So all are nothing pugulants being there, But it had to do with the guilt I carried over non essential purchases. And twenty twenty two was a year for our family where we had to do some major amounts of healing because of the stress of the pandemic, especially with the special needs that you know, were an extra layer to what everyone was going through during that time, and we had to have a year of fun, and that meant
we had to spend money on non essential things. Not all the money, not all the things, but some non essential things. So one of those things that I've been doing, and by the way, it did heal our family, and we still prioritize it. And I'm still always trying to navigate my feelings of feeling guilty over spending money on a caramel apple at something like you know, something like that. But one of the fun, non essential things I've been
spending money on. And my bill of the week is a little music and toddler like art class for my toddler. And you know, he's my fifth Like none of my other kids did anything as like a less than two year old, Like they didn't get any like we got the hand me downs of the entire neighborhood and the toys like there were no new anything or special classes.
And it has been a delight. It has been so fun for him and for me to just spend that money and to have the time together and to have him make some friends and just to get out of our house together too. So I have loved that bill. Oh and so cute. I I love kids art. I I love that so our kindergartener had They actually now have a thing where they post his art that he makes an art class online and he had it on like T shirts and stuff.
Yeah, and I am I'm obsessed. It's just so cute. I need that.
I know, right, this is such a heartwarming bill, Mona Coat. We love the ones where it's a bill that we don't mind paying because I think it really speaks to having done the work of identifying what's most important, what's valuable, getting rid of this idea of only spending on essentials, only spending on needs, never spending money if you can avoid it when we say no, we can spend well, just intentionally and mindfully in the ways that we're consuming resources.
And the fact that you're just delighted to talk about this opportunity with your youngest it's just so beautiful. So thank you for sharing well, thanks.
Thanks for teaching me this. You know, this is why I pre ordered your book and I can't wait to have it so I can remind myself of all these things and learn new way of navigating at all.
Thanks for that plug, Monica. By What You loovebook dot com. If you want to get alongside Monica can get our book to your front door. And also if you are listening and you want to submit a bill of the week if it is as heartwarming as Monica is, if it's about a bill you don't mind paying, or if it's about a bill you can't stand paying, you just want to be a camrudge. I don't mean I can't
even say the words the convent to us. That'd be great too, Fords Podcast dot com slash bill, leave us your bill, and now it's time for the show.
We do all of our own sound effects, Monica. Everybody loves it every time we say that to every guest because we are so proud. They are not tired of that. All right, So today's lightning round. What's something you'd like to do but haven't started yet because you're worried a about how it will turn out? Oh yeah, this is the vulnerability round. Hi, we are in it. Goldie, our podcast manager writes these and we have to get vulnerable
as well. But Monica will let you start something you'd you'd like to do but haven't yet started because maybe a little worried about it.
Uh yes, I think for me.
It actually is.
I'm going back to that client. You know, I got to practice my own what I've been preaching to her, and it's oil painting. I've always wanted to be an oil painter, and I just keep not getting around to it, you know. So, but I'm sure it has a lot to do with what we just talked about today. So I've got to untingle that a bit.
Yeah, oh gosh, do you have an answer?
Okay, So I think for a while, I've It's all I've never wanted to because I've always been worried about it, not being able to do it. But like, deep down inside, I would never admit, but I will admit now I've wanted to run a marathon, but like, running a half marathon is so hard, Like I've run several of those, and I'm just like, I don't know if I could do a full but I've wanted to, but I am worried about how training would go and how the actual
thing would go. But a friend and I have talked about doing the Disney World Marathon in twenty twenty six. That would be cool. Yeah, so you've got to do it.
You've got to do it because you say you want to. Aside from that, I don't understand. I'm never gonna be like, you've got to run a marathon just for the heck of it, But if it is something you have on your mind, I'm gonna cheer you on.
Thank you, Jill.
Oh, my vulnerability. Let's see, Honestly, the thing that I've been most nervous about lately, this is very vulnerable, is well. I suppose specifically TV appearances about our book. It's one of the things that we are aimed at doing, and it's new to me. And I love talking and I love talking to Jen, and I love talking to people like you. But something like that where they're like, give us your best hot take and three minutes or less, like, I know, give me forty five minutes.
I know, right, That's why it's so hard for us to do social media because I can't do anything in sixty seconds.
I know you will.
I can't do anything in sixty seconds.
But the thing that trips me up about this question is something you would like to do, you want to do, Yeah, I've also got the the thing like I just don't want to do it, yeah, but I am also worried about it. Whatever, Jen will be there with me.
Yeah, I will be there. We'll get it. It'll be fine.
And you know what, if it's not fine, Monica says, that's great too.
We'll learn from it. To fail, we will learn from it. Monica, thank you so so much for joining us. Where can people find more from you?
Since you're already listening to a podcast, come check out mine. It's called about Progress and Jen. It will have been on the show. I don't know when this is airing, or will be on the show regardless of when this is airing, and we talk about all things personal development. There ab outside of perfectionism, and it's both practical and deep and I absolutely love doing it. So again, about progress.
Thank you so much. Monica's great having you.
Thank you for having me.
I really appreciated a conversation that was really focused on the all or nothing mindset, because it is literally something I have said, like I'm very all or nothing, like I either go all in or I don't go And I thought that was a personality trait and I stopped thinking that a while ago, but I couldn't put words to what it was or maybe even like I knew I had adopted this different way of thinking about a progress, but I really couldn't put that, like I couldn't connect
the dots with words about how I got there. And Monica did that really well. And I hope that that maybe helped other people see if you're on the other side or if you're in the middle, which most people are in the middle, Like, I hope that helped you articulate what's going on.
Yeah, I think dispelling the myth about our typical idea of perfectionists was really helpful to me and helpful in my own question asking of myself, like, what's the barrier for me doing this? Is it truly because I will I will believe I'm just lazy. I just don't want to do anything, But to ask myself an additional question of is it because I'm afraid of doing it wrong
or I'm afraid of making a mistake? And I think as I process through some of these experiences I've had recently, it's more so that one I just I don't want to mess it up, and knowing that can give me a little bit more of a pathway forward you want to do next.
I feel like a lot of people feel like that with investing, Oh yeah, or negotiating or lowering a bill like that's I don't want to do it wrong and mess it up and then go the other way.
Yeah, I don't know about it. It must be too complicated for me. There's all sorts of things we tell ourselves.
I just don't have the time to learn about it right now, and so I can't start because I don't have the time to learn, and I don't have the time to learn all about it like hyper fixing learn, these are these are the things that we personally are grappling with in topics, and so yeah, it's just a good reminder even when you've already been through it. So
thank you so much for listening. We hope that you were encouraged and taught by this episode, and if you were, we would love if you'd leave us a rating and review on Apple or Spotify, kind of like this one from Samantha s twenty two relaxed, fun and informative Happens to Be five stars. Jen and Jill give relevant information related to finance in real life fun podcast to throw into the mix each week.
I love being thrown into the mix. I love how that sounds because you know the mix. Are we next to Yeah, really, Samantha s point two give us a follow up. I want to know, but I think I'm imagining that we're in there with all sorts of other just fun podcasts. This is not, you know, just I'm consuming all business and investing all the time. It's the frugal friends next to the cults, next to the.
We are the real business and investing podcast right like, if you need it, that's frugal friends, business, very business.
You know. This is confirming a thought that I had this week of Okay, yeah, we've been saying it like we are our podcast is in the lifestyle category on Apple, but I really have felt recently like we are a personal finance podcast for people who don't typically consume personal finance content. For some reason, that was a bit of an AHA moment for me of like kind of who you all are are out there? And Samantha, I do You're kind of confirming that And I love thinking that I'm just like in the.
Mix, even if all the other podcasts she is talking about our business and personal trind No, it's not John and Samanda and will still love you. Thank you so much. Please leave a rating and review, maybe mention some of the other shows you listen to, Yes, a rising tie.
Oh that's a great tip, because we say ratings and reviews help other people find us and know if we're going to be a right fit for them. So if you listen to us and like us, tell them the other types of podcasts that you listen to with in your review, so then other people can know. Oh yeah, yeah, I liked that one too, therefore I can like this one. Yeah. Okay, thanks for listening, thanks for being here.
Okay, bye bye. Gorugal Friends is produced by Eric Siriani. What if Frugal Friends was in your mix, what would be the other podcast? Do you even listen to podcasts? Jill, Yeah, that's what I thought.
I listen to the podcasts of the people who are going to be on our show, or if I'm going to guest on their show. Yes, I'll listen to an episode, and so that's what my podcast players filled with.
You know what I listen to? Wait, wait, don't tell me we do. Nobody is surprised because I actually mostly listen to audiobooks. But if I'm with Travis, then we're listening to Wait wait, don't tell me, we're catching up.
When I go on a road trip, I will listen to something like a serial podcast or something like that. Eric and I will enjoy those more like story form investigative type of podcasts.
It's just after doing so many I become almost judgmental of other shows that do I don't know, people just do things differently, and that's great, and they should do things differently, and and I just want to give everyone the freedom to do what they do well. And I just don't want to know what it is.
I feel like those podcasts are so different from us though.
That, but we are in business still.
We're so business. Were business, they know, so business.
All the who you know other business podcast wanted to be as successful as us. They should business like we business.
I mean, we're not lounging in comfy chairs with microphones covered in pink. What are these called? We wanted to call them pop filters, but that's not that is always what we've called them, pink pink smushies over a mashie that they are the business like us. Get our jargon down.
Get our hearts where lings loop back on that.
Do a do a check in by E O D.
Business Babes coming soon