The Multiple Forms of Capital to Earn & Build Wealth with Laura Oldanie

This was from our Future of Frugal summit in twenty twenty one, and if you were with us two years ago then hopefully you got a chance to hear it. But even if you have, it's still a great one to re listen to.

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the eight forms of it's not just natural capital. So we talk a lot about being a good steward of your resources. That's what your frugality is, being a good steward of your money, your time, natural resources, physical space. And that lines up very similarly with Laura. That's kind of why we invited her on and she talks about in permaculture there it is this closed loop system, closed loop way of life. Whereas a lot of things in our lives have a start and end up in a dump.

So in permaculture they have these eight forms of capital. And it was just like this mind blowing concept of So we need money to buy things, so it makes sense we talk a lot about earning money to buy those things, but what if we as often as possible, we're able to get creative and bypass the money and earning more and go directly to the things we really want,

the things money can't buy. We use the resources we have that are not monetary to acquire other resources that are also not monetary, so that I hope that blew your mind, because that's really what this interview is about. And Laura is a permaculture expert. She's an expert on using these forms of capital to build wealth, build resiliency,

and we're so excited to share this. And if you want to queue up a few other good ones to listen to after this, we loved our recent episode three twenty three with Brad Barrett of Choose FI what financial independence looks like today. Laura started in the financial independence community and has been really invested in that community, trying to usher people towards more sustainable forms of building wealth.

And then another interview we did from the twenty twenty one summit was with Rich Jones, episode three oh five. We put that, you know, we loved that one also so much that we put it in episode three oh five Intentional Strategies to Increase your income, And this one really emphasizes social capital, which is one of those forms of capital, so using your connections and.

They're far lesser known, but they exist, and so I just I'm out there trying to open people's minds to the possibilities beyond what you know mainstream media and investing and wealth conversations are feeding them. And I'm passionate about this because I am concerned about you know, people and planet and the environmental and social challenges I think we face, and so this is a way of building wealth that helps us be more resilient in the face of those

challenges as well as addressing them. And I really believe that this, you know, what I'm helping people to do. What I'm talking about, what I offer people is it connects people with a much more. It's it's a path to a higher quality of life and well being as well, you know, in tandem with that pursuit of wealth, it looks to our own resourcefulness and creativity and gives us the opportunity to tap into that and you know, move

from consumer to producer and that fulfillment and satisfaction of that. Well.

bit disconnected from this space of personal finance experts. I obviously have money, and I want to do well with my money, but yeah, I'm not in it all the time, and so because of that, I don't know what I don't know, And I think in some ways I can represent the general the general public. I mean maybe maybe not everybody, but knowing that or assuming there's one way towards wealth, maybe a collection of ways, but here's your

general path. And I think for you to describe listen, where we put our money matters, but just moving beyond what we do in our daily lives, like I recycle, and now you're saying, no, there's actually there's there's more macro level things that we can be looking at that are sustainable but also benefit us. So anyhow, that's my monologue to say, I'm really excited about what you're saying.

that's just the way it's discussed in permaculture. But this concept exists beyond that. In fact, there is a community capital's framework that has been put together. So communities, you know, when they don't have a lot of financial resources, often rural communities, they will look to these non monetary forms of capital to recognize the wealth and resources that already exist in their midst they're just not in the form

of dollar signs. And so I'll talk through each of the eight forms of capital very briefly just to give people an overview of what they are. And the first one is the one we all know and deal with most, and that's financial capital. Our money are you know, national currencies, stocks, and bonds. That's all in the financial currency space. Then

we have material capital. So these are the more tangible things like the laptops we're using in our microphones that we're using to communicate with each other, our homes, our cars, any of the hammers or shovels that we're using, the rocks, these physical tools, these are material capital. Then we have intellectual capital. So that's the knowledge that's the books behind me that I read to gain. You know, the books are material, but the information, the knowledge I gain from

them is intellectual capital. So if I read about how to fix a bicycle, for example, if I want to change my own tire or something like that, repair something on my bike, I read about it. Then I go out to my bike and actually physically do the work to replace the tire or repair it. That's experiential capital. I'm out there doing it. I'm gaining that experience. So experiential capital are those skills. And it's not just the

physical skills though it's your podcasting skills. It's all the skills we learn when we learned how to do something new. This talent stack of skills that we have. So that's experiential capital, spiritual capital, So you know it could be your religious faith if you're religious. It could be your yoga practice if you practice yoga. It's just how you

connect with the universe. Is your spiritual capital. Then we have living capital, so that's the water, the trees, the gardens, the fruit trees in our yards, the parks near us that we go out to when we go to national parks and we're out there taking in all of that beautiful nature. That's living capital. We also have cultural capital. Cultural capital is our shared capital of songs, movies, a common history. Food is a great example, ethnic foods, the

foods that we share as different cultures. And then social capital and social capital is you know, we're building a little bit of social capital right now just having this conversation and building the connections with the people at the summit who who are you know, engage you know, watching us have this conversation. It's when you get a job

because you have a connection to someone. It's when a hurricane comes through Saint Petersburg and you don't have your own generator but you've lost power, but your neighbor next door has a generator and lets you plug in your refrigerator or a fan or something. So that's that's social capital. And so those are the eight forms of capital, these

non monetary forms of capital. And if we if we think about it, the financial capital which we all focus on, we focus on it because it's a means of exchange and it's our access point to the other forms of capital. It's not that we want dollar bills because we like to stack them up and like, you know, make a statue out of them because they're so beautiful, or there's

some other intrinsic money. Yes, and even there so you're yes, colorful currencies are certainly more engaging visually, but even then, primarily we want we want them because we're going to exchange them, and there are gateway and access point to these other forms of capital. And so in terms of your frugality and friends or is it frugal friends audience, you know, I really think if we get so focused and drawn into getting that financial capital in our lives

and what are we going to do? How are we going to trade our time or set up our passive income streams to get it? But we can also focus more on how do we just go directly get these other forms of capital, these non monetary forms of capital, without needing to trade our life energy for money. And again, you know, as I mentioned before, and how do we move more into that producer versus consumer role and have

that more fulfilling opportunity to solve our own problems. Money just robs us of the opportunity to use our creativity so often because we're so busy, so trapped in the system, that we can't think about how to get these other forms of capital without money. And for example, I I needed a new shower curtain rod and I really did not like the idea of going out to a store. And certainly saving money is a good thing, and that was part of it, But just one more shower curtain

in the world. Does someone really, you know, need to buy another shower curtain and use those resources? There was so much an energy that went into producing it. Where is it going to go? You know, when I'm done with it, it's you know, it's just going to end up in a landfill or here in our county in an incinerator, polluting the air. So I could, you know, I was trying to find one at a thrift store

and I just wasn't finding one. And finally I looked outside my window and I saw that I have this beautiful slender bamboo growing in my yard, and I thought, hot, damn, that is my shower hurt rod, And it is a beautiful piece of nature that I've brought into my bathroom that already happens to be green and brown colored anyways. And I just love the feel of this natural product, you know, that was completely free, that's completely renewable. Bamboo grows,

you know, like anything. So it just because I did not go out and spend the money, I gave myself to have the opportunity to have that aha moment and get such a better product for myself in the end.

didn't think like, where's my next meal coming from? I mean, thank goodness, I was very blessed in that situation. And I would say, like, we have family and friends who are supporting us, like I still do have a form of transportation. And I think you're putting words to why I felt that way. And I think even beyond that, not not just looking back, but also looking forward for what are our standards for whether or not where we

are wealthy or happy or content. There's so much more to look at, and I think you've just broadened the horizon on that. And so thank you for that terminology and vocabulary that we can be focusing on. And as Jen said, meditating on, I'm excited about it.

traditional economy. But I do think that, you know, they offer an opportunity for us to think about, you know, what else in our life could provide value for us in the forum of financial capital if we needed to exchange it, you know, so just even you know, being able to grow your own food or forage food, for example. I love here where we live. You know, we're coming upon a time soon where mangoes are going to be dropping in the alleys, going to waste. Avocados are going

to be so abundant. And you know, in years past, I've gone around on my bike and just harvest the foraged them, and then I've taken them to our local kenwood organics and exchange them for other produce and chicken eggs, you know that I didn't have myself. So there's an opportunity to use those forms of capital without you know,

even bringing in the financial capital to exchange them. But you could also sell them, you know, or make money from your skills, from your intellect, from your singing, you know, from cultural capital. So it's just how do you tap them wisely, these forms of capital. So that's an answer to your question that looks directly at those forms of capital in terms of you know, stepping away from that and thinking more about, Okay, we are in this monetary economy right now, and how do we navigate that in

a more socially and environmentally conscious way. I think in terms of earning money, we can look to a Buddhist concept of right livelihood. And so this Buddhist concept of right livelihood is you know, finding ways to earn money that are honest and don't harm people or plant, you know, and we can think about that in our jobs, you know, what is the environmental and societal impact of the work

we're doing, and how does that feel to us? You know here, you know, the three of us, we're working to you know, kind of in personal development, personal finance, helping people improve their lives. You know, little things I've done. You know, I had a backyard plant nursery at one time, and I have I do a good bit of dumpster diving because the waste in our country just really really upsets me. We do not have good solutions for waste.

And so you know, one year, I've probably made three or four thousand dollars off of eBay and other sites selling what I was rescuing out of thrift store dumpsters, all the dumpsters, you know, university dumpsters at the end of the semester, because so much still perfectly usable and

valuable stuff gets thrown away. So I you know, if people are concerned about waste, I think tapping the waste stream to redirect it, because I say that there's no such thing as waste, There are only misdirected resources and poorly designed systems. So you know, I strongly encourage anyone you know to interested in that, to think about them because I think there's a lot of potential. We don't have good good solutions for waste, and we produce far

too much of it. So that's on the income side, is you know, thinking about right livelihood and just the environment in society in general, how can we have work that helps to address these challenges? And then in our investing.

So there are so many really great things percolating out there that people don't know I and you there are ways to invest in these things in you know, going deeper into the personal finance lingo, you know, tax advantaged ways and retirement accounts and non tax advantaged ways, just directly. And so I always encourage people even first before they think about investing, is to start with banking. Where are you banking? Because when your money sleeps at a bank,

it's supporting something. It's not sleeping at the bank. They have farmed it out, shipped out somewhere else. So are you comfortable with what your bank is supporting? And if you're with a major bank, you're more than likely supporting fossil fuels. So if you've divested from fossil fuels in your investing, but your bank money in the bank is still supporting it. That may be something that doesn't sit right with you. So there are way you know, socially

responsible banks like Aspiration or Amalgamated Bank. There are also banks where we can put our money to work in under resourced communities, you know, communities that don't have the access to capital that more affluent communities do. So you know, there are community development financial institutions CDFIs. Many of them are banks, and like I said, they're low income communities. The Hope Credit Union in Mississippi is one that does a lot of good work. There's also the Native American Bank.

You know, you can park your money even if you can't invest or make a philanthropic contribution, and you're concerned about indigenous populations, you can open savings or checking account or a CD with the Native American Bank and they're lending that money to indigenous populations for mortgages for small businesses. So even just starting with banking is a great way to do it. In investing, you know, an easy kind

of gateway. One that I like to talk about and I think Jen you know about this is Worthy Worthy Bonds. You know, it's a five percent return on investment and that they're using the money to make loans to small businesses, so at least it moves your money off of Wall Street and closer to Main Street. You know. That's a good one. I have really come to appreciate Steward. I

think the website is gosteward dot com. They're making loans to regenerative farmers, small regenerative farmers, you know, and I think their loans are returning five to eight percent. That's not too bad. And it's helping, you know, regenerate farmers who need money that and they're even you know, this is generally beyond organic. They're really working to regenerate the soils, you know, and restore the biodiversity on their farms that we're we're losing. So that's just to say that these

opportunities are out there. There are people like like we said, they just don't know what they don't know, and there's there's information on my website where people can find more out more. But I'll also say quickly for those that are interested in doing this in a tax advantaged way, what's really helped me is that I learned about self directed retirement account and so these are accounts that allow for a much wider range of investing than traditional retirement accounts,

which limit us to the offerings of Wall Street. Primarily mostly people who are using these self directed accounts are in real estate, but it's not limited to real estate. You know, both of the investments I just described the worthy and steward I've made through my self directed IRA, and I've made a number of others all the others I've mentioned on my website. So there are the more traditional the iras, but there are also solo for one case,

for people who own their own businesses. So I think only four percent of the retirement accounts out there are these self directed kind. So there's potential, huge potential for an explosion for people to move their money out of these harmful, destructive, extractive market industries in the marketplace and direct it towards what they really want to see in the world, to invest in the future they want to create.

And one quick resource I'll share for anyone who's listening that's interested, there's a wonderful group online called the Next Egg. So it's a play on nest Egg, the Next Egg, and it's an online forum for people who are pursuing this self directed retirement investing and looking for these types of investing investments outside of you know that are more towards sustainability and sustainable solutions. So it's it's, you know, it's it's new territory that we're charting here stepping out

of this. So it's great to have this group to walk that path together.

thought about. So I'm so thrilled to be having this conversation, and I'm also curious to hear your thoughts on some of these lesser talked about aspects of what you're presenting.

As we're talking about wealth and you discuss community sufficiency and interconnectedness as a form of wealth, and you've already mentioned some of that, like borrowing your neighbors generator, but I'm curious to hear more from you on this topic, because again I don't think we talk about it a lot, especially as a form of wealth and how we can tap into that.

And you know, to the extent that people are out there talking about multiple forms of capital, you know, and their importance, I think many of us would agree that social capital, of all of them, is probably the most important. It's where the resilience is, you know, it's it's what's going to get us through when we're really in need. And so it is a form of wealth, and you know, it's it's as little as you know, what we talked

about before, under the realm of social capital. But there's also you know, you can really work to cultivate it. So I have a dear friend, Jenny Nazak, who wrote a book called Deep Green, all about low footprint living, and so she it has done a wonderful job of creating you know, working on the front of her yard towards the sidewalk to put in a bench so people can stop and rest and gather and chat. You know,

you could put in a little free library. I just met a neighbor down the road a couple of days ago, within forty eight hours of her putting up a little free library, because I knew any neighbor in my community that had one with someone I wanted to meet. You know, you could put if you're into plants, put out a little box and for free plants. You know, there are so many ways just making an effort to get to know your neighbors and build that connection. And it doesn't

have to just be neighbors. We've had conversations some of my friends in Saint Petersburg. You know we instead of all of us selling our homes and living together in an intentional community house, how do we build that intentional community among ourselves, you know, so that we know that when we need something, these are the people we can tap. This is our community sufficiency. And for the three of us in Saint Pete, we're so fortunate that we have

the time bank we have. So time bank is a is a bank where the unit of exchange is time, and everyone's time is valued equally, and so it can be you know, anything from you know, helping someone weave their yard to I used our time bank to have someone come take pictures of me for my social media, you know, so I didn't have to hire a photographer. It's it's just limited to our imagination the exchanges we can come up with and the again, the currency is time.

But that's the whole point of the Time bank is to foster that community sufficiency, that financial interdependence, that interconnectedness. And so not every community has a time bank, but they buy nothing projects they can join their buy nothing group. That I don't think it's always the reality, but I know based on what I've read from the women who's founded that that was part of their goal was to foster that community interaction and build more community.

many levels. So yeah, I agree with you, Laura, and what can come out of this interconnectedness and looking at our community both giving and receiving that reciprocity that can exist in relationship there is beautiful.

putting ourselves out there to connect with our neighbors. And so like I've always been the introvert that stays at home inside, doesn't talk to people, and my husband is makes connections and new friends wherever he goes, and it's just been it's been delightful for me to get to benefit from that, to like have neighbors for the first time in my life where we'll go across, you know, across the alley to their backyard and have a beer, like after work. It's so beautiful, but it does take

a little bit of effort. It's so worth it though, so so we are asking this question to all of our speakers, Laura, in different forms, but we would really like to know what do you hope the future of earning and or investing like looks like for the future for us.

environmental challenges and investing. You know, I would love to see money much more, if not money coming out of Wall Street, you know, and moving towards these investments that are again much more working towards our solving our social and environmental issues and giving people that satisfaction. It also engages you so much more in your investing journey, you know, as opposed to just tracking the spreadsheet and the charts

and the dots on the graph. You know, it's like what's happening at that farm today, or what's that small business?

a difference. So I love that this Also that makes it more accessible to more people.

So so much of what you're saying, I'm hoping with you, and I'm excited about what you have your sights on. That being said, Laura, do you have a bill of the week for us?

right to build wealth and not totally. They're not living off the grid somewhere right, They're still in embedded in society, but they're just choosing an alternative path to building wealth, and it's great. She's got some great ideas for investing and yeah, I love it.

that literation. It's nice to have a lighthearted podcast asked about stuff that is so important, like finances. I feel like finances is something a lot of people don't like to talk about because it's serious. These girls find a way to make it fun and enjoyable to listen to.

one about blood and that's you. Yeah. But no, if you if you can commit to writing about like if you've ever written a blog post about two thousand words, kind of writing that every week, we've got three front letters. They're about six to seven hundred words each. So if you can commit to that, if you have the time for that, you want to make some extra money, reach out Jen Atfrugal friendspodcast dot com. Yeah, that's it.