Episode three seventy one Managing Money with a Partner with Julia Lilly.
Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, and live your life. Here your hosts Jen and Jill.
Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen, my name is Jill, and today we are talking about having conversations and managing money with a partner, spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever. We are going to be talking any relationship where you are managing money together. You're gonna want to stick around for this one.
Oh she's a good one. She's a real good one.
That's all. And Jill learns some stuff from this episode from this interview.
So health space, and yet I have a lot.
Of room for improvement.
So but first, this episode is brought to you by every couple's favorite bedtime pastime, scrolling on your phone in bed. If you can't wait to put your kids to bed and crawl into bed with that special someone to scroll on your phones together, then this one's for you. One day you're going to need to freshen things up with new phones, So start saving now, start a tasteful new phone,
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That that high yield savings account is the most hot, salacious thing on the market doing the most.
Also, it's doing the most. And if you are looking for other things to talk to your partner about besides your phones. Episode three eleven, Keeping Financial Secrets from your Spouse with Caroline Benseel. This was a little fill in with two, I was basically like three of my best friends in a room talking without me. That's what this episode is. Yeah, wow, so.
Love that for babies.
And every time John has a baby, then we bring in other people to talk with me and fill in for Jen.
And that was why I.
Bring in my Yeah, that was a friend good one. Yeah really. And then episode two thirty one being Frugal with a non frugal partner, That is also a really good one to queue up if you like this one. So, but today we're talking not just if your partner may be reluctant to be frugal or maybe reluctant to get on board with paying off debt, but but including that stuff, but also just like how to manage money well together long term. So like when you do get on the
same page, where do we go from there? How do we create healthy plans, healthy conversations, healthy habits for managing our money together. And we wanted to call in a certified financial planner for this one. And we wanted because
we wanted somebody who talks to a lot of couples. Right, so Jill and I have been married for a long time to other people, not each other, right, And we wanted, but we don't talk to enough married people about their money to really have a good like a full picture on all of the possibilities, and so we found Julia Lilly.
She's a certified financial planner and a credited behavioral finance professional, so she's not just somebody who helps couples create plans for their money, but she makes sure those plans are based on your behaviors and your values. She's the founder of Ryerson Financial and she Ryerson Financial is an advice only financial planning firm. It's all virtual, so you basically
she doesn't handle any of your investments. She just gives you advice on how to do it yourself, meaning she's affordable, and she works specifically with people who find values based spending to be more important than just getting to the goal as fast as possible. And it's all online so you can literally be anywhere. So if you really like what Julia has to say, then you can reach out
to her. But we loved this conversation with her. She has so much wisdom after speaking with so many couples about managing money and making financial plans, and we're so excited to share her with you.
Let's hear from Julia.
Julia, welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. We are so excited to have you here.
Jen Jill, thank you so much for including man. Excited for the conversation. Yay.
This is a topic that we haven't delved into entirely. I don't think we've dedicated a specific podcast episode to this, and much less with an expert like yourself on this kind of topic where we're talking both behavioral finance with a certified financial planner. So this is just exciting for us all around. And as we get started, I am curious to hear from your experience in working with people.
What's some of the most common money concerns or disagreements that you've run into that that couples can have when they are seeking out your advice.
So it's a great question and it runs the gamut. You know. I talk about financial planning, and there are certain kind of models and paradigms that you can fit into, but everybody's unique on the things that they struggle with. I think some of the biggest ones I've seen is differences in opinion on like your sleep well sleep at night fund. What allows me to rest well at night? Is it one hundred dollars in the bank or is
it a twelve month emergency reserve fund in cash? And so helping clients work through kind of understanding the lens with which each of them are approaching their plan, I think is really important. Other topics such as kind of spending versus savings. Some people approach spending as a chore, whereas the other partner might really get the thrill of the spending, and so aligning those behaviors and just allowing to have a conversation about what makes for a healthy
financial life. So again, it runs the gamut. There's quite a few different topics, but I'd say the big ones is kind of cash flow management and then goal planning and looking towards the future and making sure that both parties are aligned on where you're headed.
I love that term, the sleep at Night fund.
I don't think I've ever heard it phrased that way, but I can get it. For me and my husband, we've been married coming up on twelve years now, and I think something I've realized for us, and then in talking with other people, is it's not so much that neither one of us has that value. It's just that that value differs from each other. We've got kind of these ideas in our head, but they might look a
little bit different, we might implement execute differently. And I love the way that you're highlighting that and kind of giving words to it and how we can kind of phrase this to one another. And even I do because I feel like a lot of people, well you tell me our people knowing that, are they able to come to you and say we've got different ideas of what art needs to be in our sleep at sleep at night fund or is that like you help them to see where the rub is.
Yeah, it kind of more comes out in conversation. And I think, Jill, you just highlighted I assume I kind of know in my own head, and you kind of think your partner who's been on this journey with you is on the same page. But until you really proactively have that conversation, you aren't necessarily on the same page and can have very different opinions of what the right kind of savings number is or what the right dollar
amount is to spend on an item. I worked with another client, this couple who needed to remodel their living room space. They had a newborn and they needed a baby proof better. And it was interesting just even having the conversation of, Okay, we need to buy a bookshelf. How much did we send spend on the bookshelf? And almost at the same time, one saying five thousand dollars and the other one's like, ikia, three hundred, you know, and it's like, Okay, clearly there's a different vision, but
getting aligned is important. So I think the key there is being more proactive in the conversation. I think a lot of us can get stuck in our own heads and assume that the other person kind of understands where we're coming from. But that's certainly not the case. And that's not exclusive to finances. That's in a lot of stuff, but I think it comes out and that's where a lot of friction can happen around money because it's such a big part of our everyday lives.
Yeah, So when two people come to you and they learn like, oh, you think you need one hundred dollars to be safe and I think I need ten thousand, what's kind of like the first thing that you recommend for them to start getting on the same page, Like where do they move forward first? From that realization?
So I think it's digging in a little bit. So every engagement for me, I start with a financial perspective's assessment. So prior to that first meeting together, each client takes this assessment and it looks at eight different attributes about their financial lens and so it's not so myopic only on that one hundred versus ten thousand, but it goes a little bit more into like what was it growing
up around spending versus savings? You know, like all of that stuff informs why ten thousand dollars feels better than one hundred dollars. You know, someone who grew up maybe in more of a scarcity mindset household feels more comfortable and okay in that one hundred dollars space because they're used to just kind of operating at the margin. Versus someone who grew up in a household where it was much more planful and rolling in to spend it when
we have it. They're going to be more comfortable with the ten thousand dollars because then they have that flexibility, Okay, I need to buy this item, I had the money in the bank. And so it's bringing those kind of different perspectives together. So that they can get a better understanding of why your number is what it is. And so then from there you step into okay, what would make you feel better? Would it be setting aside money
every month on a on a systematic basis. Would that help mitigate you're at least moving towards that dollar amount? People say yes, or in other cases, when their emergency fund is almost too cushy, you talk about what could we get down to and what would make you feel comfortable while we're kind of being a little more efficient in our plan to make sure your money's working for you in the best way possible.
Sounds like through that process you're gonna not just learn about your partner, but yourself too.
I imagine there's.
A lot of people to who take that assessment and realize, oh, okay, I didn't actually know these pieces about me, much less my partner and where they're coming from.
Well, and I like it because I laugh with clients. It's kind of like a Meyers Briggs assessment. You could take it on Monday and get a very different score than what you got on Thursday, but it lets us have a better conversation around how do you feel about spending? We're able to look at this quantitative score that says
you're a ninety nine. I'm spending that to me indicates you really enjoy it, and so we can then peel the onion a little bit better versus just saying yeah, Amazon's great and it's easy, you know, and it's it's It allows for a more robust conversation.
M H. So when couples want to have these conversations at home, like after kind of starting to find out these things about each other, how can they like initiate them or kind of bring them up gingerly or graciously like in their relationship.
That's a good question, and it's a big one. I like to challenge clients to work together on kind of goal planning and frame it as short term, medium term, and long term goals because that helps guide the conversation where it doesn't get stuck necessarily, but instead I kind of highlight that it's a north star that helps individuals understand the trade offs of I really want to do this, but I thought our goal we're here and really getting a ligne on what.
Those goals are.
Because I've worked with clients where their goals are very different. They love one another and they've got a strong foundation, but they have different visions of kind of that question of what does success.
Look like for me?
And so allowing people the space to kind of put that within a framework. And then I think the biggest thing on coaching clients on how to have those conversations independently would be to make sure that you kind of recognize the value of what the other person's bringing and why they maybe are having that particular sentiment around their finances. So really listening and hearing the why behind someone's particular lens.
It sounds like it's pulling it a little bit away from finances first, not that it's not going to be a part of the conversation, but first beginning with something that maybe feels a little bit more neutral or approachable to talk about, of just goals, like we all have goals and we can see you where each other's at on that, and then how it intersects with finances From there, Am I understanding the method?
Yeah? No, I think that's one hundred percent. I think it's goals plus values because those values help inform kind
of where you want to allocate your resources. I highlight with clients that it's resources is not just money resources is also your time, and so it's about both of those kind of coming together and making sure that they're headed in the direction that aligns with what you all believe as kind of your client, your partnership, your marriage, you're dating, whatever the relationship looks like, but making sure that you're kind of understanding where each of you are coming from.
I love all those words values and goals and alignment and all the other words that kind of coincide with that that you're not saying too. The kind of the freedom and flexibility for this not to look exactly one way. And it sounds like you've got extensive experience with couples who who might just have different goals not to mention different ideas around money, or do you find that when they're having these conversations in some of these you know, pulling.
It out to the broader picture, that they're able.
To find some common ground.
Is that not as important or kind of like, what is the goal in then talking this out? Because I could imagine there's some people who know, like I know that my spouse's goal is different from mine, I know that their values different from me. What is the goal then in talking with them and bringing them together. Where do you see couples can find themselves once they're able to talk about it.
I do. I think it helps people kind of put a name to it. You know, once you move away from being frustrated or annoyed that you spend so much more on Amazon than you should. It's moving into like one of the reasons why I do that is because I'm taking care of the family, and really I talk about kind of spend plan management. I'm less interested in a budget and more about spend plan management. Are we spending dollars a line to where we put our values
in our goals? And so shining a flashlight on that so that there's more communication and transparency. I do think really helps people move more into the together versus just being so kind of diametrically opposed of like I'm mad about their lens regarding finances, versus recognizing the value that they do bring and more the why behind it.
Yeah, to loop back to Jen's question and maybe like expand on it just slightly and briefly for someone just starting out who might be listening to this and thinking, oh, yeah, this is where I need.
To begin with my partner.
Do you have any kind of couple of questions or even just one question that they could start with, maybe even before they get to a point of talking with someone like yourself, and of what can they go home and ask one another that might start and ignite these next few steps.
One of the I think baseline questions to start and initiate just an open dialogue is what does success look like? And listening to the answer and not just success. I laughed with one client about retirement being this kind of like unicorn Land way out in the future, but more, you know, kind of this mythical creation where who knows what it will look like? But what can you do along the way to celebrate success? And so giving people a little bit more of that white page to say,
what does success look like? And what does that feel like to you? Because then it allows you to kind of without the constraint or restraint of budgeting and the everyday mundane elements of finances, really move more in a bit of that dream. Then you get down into the nitty gritty, but starting more at the ten thousand foot level I think allows for better conversation.
That's beautiful.
It sounds like it really encourages partnership rather than this kind of clashing that can happen when there are differences of opinion or values, but rather what are you envisioning, How can I get on board with what you're envisioning, and where can there be collaboration amongst us? I think that's such a beautiful foundation to start with, and that question really lays that well well.
And Jill, to go back to what you mentioned already, you kind of learn more about yourself in the process because that exercise also forces you to try and articulate what does success look like? And being able to explain that and have the conversation I think is kind of the core building blocks for everything else.
What are some topics or conversations about money that you find couples often overlook.
So I was thinking about this of you know, there's
a ton on kind of who manages which role? There's that This is a tangent, but if you guys ever heard this fair play exercise around couples now where it's more about how do you recognize the value that each review are bringing and what you're doing, So it's taking for granted maybe one partner plays more of the role of like bill pay and managing everything that happens versus the other ones thinking more high level, why aren't we saving more while we have all these leaks over here,
and so like getting that alignment another big topics of state planning, you know, really kind of more of that long term view of I don't want to talk about legacy and passing away and what happens to our assets, but that's that's important and one of the things that you kind of want to have checked off sooner rather than later, so that when and if you do need it, because eventually it is a win, it's not really if
everything is executed according to your wishes. In that same vein, I'm not a huge fan, but life insurance is an important piece of kind of someone's financial plan, and I think that's an important conversation to have with partners. I see a lot of times in marriages, maybe there's one partner takes a break and they stay at home to take care of the children, and there's this assumption, well, they don't have a salary, they don't need life insurance
because they're not adding money into this family business. I disagree. Think about the childcare that would be required if that partner wasn't able to contribute, it'd be huge for the partner that is actually still in the workforce. So again, I think life insurance and estate planning those kind of topics that none of us really want to talk about all that often, and they're kind of poke your eye out going through the exercise of setting them up. Those are important.
What about.
The parents of like how each partner's parents like impact their finances, because that's something that my husband and I have been talking about, like his parents have prepared and my mom has not. Like do you find that that is a something that you see with couples they have to think about.
That definitely one hundred percent, because you're not only worried about the legacy leaving your children, but also even moving into caretaker What does this look like? And when we have space in our home if they're going to move here, what money should I maybe partition aside in the event
that I need to support parents. So yes, those conversations are extremely important as well, and that does also kind of fold into your whole lens around money and what you're comfortable managing based on how you've watched and what's been modeled for you from your own parents.
Once we do have these important deeps for conversations that really does involve mindset and emotion and relationship, and we're coming to a better understanding of ourselves, of our partner. We're valuing each other, we know our values, and then
we get to the action point. I know that there's a lot of people out there talking about different strategies of actual tangible money management as a couple, like who's paying the bills, who's got their sights on it, how many accounts are joined, if any or maybe all?
What?
This is a big question, So like tackle it however you see fit, and maybe I'll have some follow up questions too. But I'm curious for the couple who's kind of had this conversation and is now curious about what should we be doing as far as these different types
of strategies. What's going to be the approach or even we're at the process where we need to build and create transparency with money, what are you recommending to couples in the actual tangible management of accounts and banks and paying bills?
I mean, is it's a big question, and I think historically it's been very segregated and if you want to like pure gender lines and this is going more of the gender role. It's usually the woman who does more of the bill pay and this is again just the truth. Like typical male female environment, they take on more of the bill pay role, like operating the household, and then
the man takes on more of the investment strategy. I think that all needs to shift where there's more communication on both sides, and so that would be my biggest thing on combining finances is making sure there's open communication.
Now.
Practically and tactically, it's a lot easier when one person is able to play the point for these different things and then create those open lines of communications so each partner's aware of what's going on. I think that's very important. But when it comes to just kind of normal managing of day to day life, typically one individual steps up to control certain elements like the bill pay versus investment management. You can't everybody can't be in there placing trades and
actively doing investments. But making sure that there's an open line of communication I think is the key, and recognizing and understanding different people's interests. I do work with clients where when you follow more on that kind of typical line of female operating and more of the bill pay and the mail and the investment. That's fine as long as there's communication because that's where their interests are. And
I think that that's wonderful, great have at it. But making sure that both parties understand where all the accounts are, and, like you mentioned, Jill, building that trust and transparency that's paramount to a strong financial foundation for any relationship.
Are there any specific strategies that you see work well in general as far as should we combine all of our accounts, should it just be a percentage? How should we handle discretionary spending and allotment, especially where you have couples where yeah, maybe one is primarily caretaking kids, or different levels of income between spouses. What do you recommend in those circumstances?
Again, I think everybody's different, but and then everybody's kind of paradigm will look different. Where some people do really really well having one central account and then separate accounts that they kind of get allowances out of, and then you do your spending. That's more just discretionary, no questions asked, happening over there? Some people have that happening on credit
cards versus in separate actual accounts. I am a fan of the keep it simple because getting too over engineered with a number of differ and accounts to manage just the administrative burden of that can be tricky. However, for some clients it completely works where they keep everything separate and they've got eight accounts and they're just kind of
managing all of that shuffle. Again, the key being just open and honest communication and making sure that it doesn't feel as though there's things happening in those other accounts that you're not aware of and it creates any kind of that like acky friction that you question, or it kind of chips away at any of that trust in the relationship. So I do think it is unique, especially as people get married later and are combining legally their finances later on, that process could take a lot longer.
You know, if you get married at thirty five, that's very different than twenty five. You've got your financial habits a lot of times in place, and in that situation, I would recommend slow stepping into combining everything because it could create more issues rather than fewer. However, when you're younger and there's less complexity, it could be just that much easier to pool everything and make life work a
little bit better. So I don't think there's a one size fits all, but I do think that the one fundamental piece is open communication.
Yeah. I love that there's so much more software and budgeting apps available now for people who may want to couples who may want to keep their finances separate, but still want to be able to see what the other person's doing. To create that transparency and trust, I think it's like a great time if you are, like you said, getting married later and maybe don't have the energy to combine everything like, there's still options for creating that transparency, which is great, And I.
Have one caveat on the transparency is super important, but you also want to maintain some channel of being able to have autonomy on I'm going to spend this and I don't want anyone to question it. I don't want too much of your double guessing. You know, there's it's this delicate balance of like, what's your number that you're
comfortable as a couple. Hey, if it's under one hundred dollars, it's a no question ask it could be if it's under twenty five, depending where you are financially, but making sure that you don't take away too much of that sense of financial freedom that I'm not so kind of burdened or going to be watched in my every move is being criticized, So it's it's a balance.
Yeah, Definitely, financial autonomy is something that's super important to me. I don't want to have to ask permission on anything, and that's like just something like personal for me. And thankfully Travis is totally okay with that. He trusts me in that. But like I I hate the idea of having to ask for permission and that would be like so stifling if I had a partner that like required that like babysitting of me. But yeah, but something like.
And I think it's one of those things that you grow into, you know, when you're first maybe starting out and you're learning each others spending habits and patterns. It requires more conversations and just getting that level of comfort and trust that Okay, we're both aligned, You're spending is not going to be crazy.
Because there's too.
Many stories of financial issues being a real downfall in a relationship. The foundation of love is there, but they can't figure it out on a kind of financial infidelity is very real.
Yeah, my last question is like when should somebody seek professional help like from you? Like so not not from like a marriage therapist, like a marriage and family therapist, but like from a financial advisor, Like is it communication breakdown? Is it certain? Like point in finance is like when because a lot of people want to do it themselves, but there comes a point where it's more beneficial to seek like third party heut, like what is that point?
It's a great question and a confusing one, like the only answer because I'm in the space and I think it's confusing. So I'm a financial advisor. I love this space, but I don't only focus on the behavioral elements. I build the whole plan we're wanted at all the technical elements. There is a whole nother burgeoning space called financial therapy, and their goal is only really to moderate the conversations and work through kind of where you're stuck and have
someone there to guide the conversation. So it depends on what your needs are. If it's an issue of financial infidelity or overspending and really not being able to get on the same page, that could be more in the financial therapy realm vice working with an advisor who really my value is not only on the behavioral and getting couples blind and getting our goals defined, but also I'm working through all the technical elements of a truly robust
financial plan. So that's where I say it's confusing because it depends on what you're looking to solve. And I think that's really what it comes down to, is figuring out what you're looking to solve.
And if somebody is looking more for the whole, all encompassing plan but just kind of like navigating, how do we come together on a plan that would be like the financial planner? Correct?
Correct, yep? And how do we kind of bring our whole financial life together? Because I'll laugh. I talk to a lot of financial therapists, so they're like, to be clear, Julia one plus one E goals five, Like, I'm not interested in balancing the checkbook, but i want to help people get more aligned on their outlook regarding finances.
I'm hearing the importance of communication, understanding, self and partner, simplification, transparency. Are there any other final pieces that doesn't have to be because that's enough, But any other final pieces that you from your perspective, your expertise, people often miss that would be helpful for those curious about managing money better with a partner that might be overlooked, or.
Any final tips that you want to share.
I mean, you laid out a number of kind of there those key words, but I think to add to it would be proactive communication, trying to make sure you
stay ahead of having the conversation. And then the other piece is to put a little element of fun into it, where you know, like you got to go through the spend plan, let's couple it with a really fun coffee date or like going out to dinner some other fun activity so that it doesn't have to to feel too much like drudgery and kind of an exercise of we have to do this, like I mentioned before, this estate planning, poke your eyes at out, really trying to look at it,
and how can we make it more fun as part of the journey, versus just another chore on our to do list.
Yeah, we had a couple. We had a girl email us because we do in our newsletter the last Friday of every month a budget toolkit for the next month. And she said that now her and her husband, every time they get the budget toolkit, they'll do their budget based on it. And then go out for ice cream after and there is so fun, what a cool And it's like on the calendar because the email always goes out the last Friday of the month. So that's yeah.
We honestly jen circling back to what we talked about with parents and kind of helping them manage their assets. But what they've passed down to you, that's cool modeling for their children. If there's another generation watching that, this is the way you can approach finances is that it can be a fun exercise of what we're allowing ourselves to do by being properly planful.
I think that links back to to what you're even trying to create together. It is a partnership. It's not a business at the end of the day where you're only concerned about the numbers on the paper. You're concerned about your long term relationship with one another and how
you're caring for each other. And so if we're not making it enjoyable and having fun with one another and created light, creating lightheartedness around it and within it, then that's also not going to have much longevity to it. We're not going to be then growing closer together in more collaboration if it feels like drudgery, So I am always here for the tip about making it fun.
Yeah, going back to that whole of what does success look like? Where yes, there's numbers on the page, but those numbers on the page translate to us being able to go on an awesome vacation that we've thought about and we've planned and enjoyed that journey. So it's more how do we reap the benefits of the work that we're putting in.
Do you know what allows us to reap the benefits of the work we've put in over the last five and a half years. It's not drudgery. It's always fun.
It's my week's coming back, ass the bill of the week.
That's right, It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you've paid off your mortgage. Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bills, Buffalo bills, bill claim, this is the bill of the week.
Awesome, Julia. Every week we invite our listeners and our guests to give us their bill of the week, and we know you have one prepared for us, so we'd love to hear it.
So my bill I should have come up with a guy named Bill, But I don't know that guy named Bill. But my bill is my husband, Pete had Childer surgery recently and they had him prepay for this ridiculous surgery, which in a high deductible insurance plant it was high. Then he finished the surgery and we got a huge bill in the mail and it was like, wait a minute, we already paid it. So I had to coach him on no, no, don't pay it. Just wait with these
annoying medical bills. Wait until you get the second or third one when they reconcile everything. And it turns out it actually was a zero by the end because they just hadn't caught up. But it caused a lot of stress and anks. My husband's very much of a check things off my list. I need to pay it, but that bill, I was able to remind him to just park, not pay, and wait, which is not his normal tendency.
So it was it was a good reminder for him on not getting to the to do list too quickly, but also that reminder of how messed up our medical system is.
We're getting those reminders, just regularly, regular reminders.
It's crazy.
Yeah, a good one last year, and I the medical bills. Gosh, I've spent so much time on the phone.
I'm curious. Jen. I had a client who was explaining to me her payment plan for having the baby, and she was making significant payments before having the baby for the delivery in the future. I had never heard of this before.
Yeah, h yeah, I had to. Technically my prepaid I was supposed to pay four thousand dollars, but because of the healthcare sharing plan I have, I was covered up to ALI to pay like seventeen hundred, so I stopped paying it. But when I was on insurance with my first son, I did have to pay that four thousand before I gave birth.
Wow. Yeah, I struggle because they don't even know what's going to happen. I mean, I the whole the system again, it's broken.
They just want their money. Who doesn't Who doesn't want their money?
They don't want our money?
Be with it.
We will want our money.
I'm from Missouri original and I'm originally and I'm from the show me state, so I'd rather them show me the work and then I'll pay. Have my baby, that just seems.
Yeah, show me the work, Yeah, show me that.
Wow, baby, that's a good bill, a bill you already paid, so then the next bills you don't have to pay.
I appreciate that.
It's a good reminder to all of us to double check everybody's work, because.
Well, I don't need to be given on medical bills. They really recommend wait until the second.
When comes mm hmmm, yeah, which is crazy mm hmm. And then figured that out. Figure that out too.
Yeah.
Well, if you all listening, have a bill about bills paid, bills.
You don't have to pay.
Your name is Bill you you know the drill for friendspodcast dot com slash bill. Leave it for us. We can't wait to commiserate or celebrate.
And now it's time for.
Well and now it's the vulnerability segment of the show where we are going to share all of us what is a money topic that you find personally challenging or uncomfortable to discuss with your partner. And maybe you've gotten over it, maybe it's still uncomfortable, but Julia, we will let you go first.
So you guys have had you been married for a long time. I'm about to be married seventeen years later on this month, and we just recently had a major money kind of hiccup where it goes to what we discussed a little earlier around what's that threshold of a dollar amount that we should vet with one another before
we just go ahead and make the purchase. And it's interesting because, like I said, we've been married seventeen years, combined finances for a long time, and it caused a lot of angst between the two of us where I was more curious about the vendor and he thought I
was pressing more on the dollar amount. It was just curious, and so it led to this whole conversation of his dollar amount that he feels I should just be able to spend and not say anything, and mine were a little different and it was less jen to say you can't do it and more just hey, I tried framing a little more. It was part of the estate planning conversation because even though it was a toy for him, now it's part of our home and it's my estate. So you didn't buy that.
He was like, no, good try.
Anyhow, it was it caused a lot of conversation in a way that we don't.
Necessarily always dig into.
But it was healthy and actually it brought in modeling for our kids, and like, what are you talking about so heatedly, But we landed at a good spot where we were able to recognize kind of where the two of us were coming from and that there is that foundation of trust. That it was less a question of trust and whether I trust it or not and more
just let's be transparent. It's no big deal. So that was my recent money hurdle of even after almost seventeen years, trying to make sure that the open, proactive communication is happening.
Yes, yeah, because life ebbs and flows, and yeah, we can still come back to some of the same sticking points that we've had throughout a lifetime. So we bring a whole lot of ourselves to it, or these things kind of shape shift and now there's a new way.
We have to talk about it.
Totally.
What about you?
So my background is in mental health, There is nothing off limits to talk about in our household. So for me personally, there's no conversation that makes me uncomfortable.
However, but I can't speak for Eric.
He probably is so uncomfortable by all the things that I want to discuss, but I would say that there are typical rubs for us on kind of where we are spending or not spending, and that includes going out to eat. Eric really values going out to eat. I love it too, don't get me wrong, but I'm definitely more of the savor of the two of us, and I think would would be very open to just eating whatever's in the fridge day after day after day, just
stack money up for no real reason. And he is a little different from me in that, and we've found compromises, but depending on where we're at month to month, I can feel the rub of that a little bit more because I am the one primarily in the nitty gritty of the finances. Certainly keep him updated, but that's always the rub for us. But actually, my takeaway from this you didn't ask for this, but I'm telling you is
what you both said. This term of financial autonomy, This is definitely a gut check for me because I am so detail oriented with our spending plan. I know it down to the penny. I'm looking at it a lot, and I very much the one who is yaying or naying things and Eric's not complaining about that, but it is making me realize. I think some financial autonomy could really do us well, Like in this next season, I think that there's room for us to be able to say,
this is your money spend however you want it. This is my money spend however you want it. That's going to be. That's my takeaway. That's the goal I'm going to do create more comfort here. I made the like question whatever I wanted it to be.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
And it's like there's a factor of trust too, Like if I'm being babysat, I don't feel like I'm being like, yeah, trusted for sure. So yeah, for sure, I trust.
Him implicitly with the parameters that I give him.
I have seen actually I have been witnessed to a rub in your financial conversation or.
Should we spa ever later, like when we're not recording, I don't know.
You can share her? Fine, I will.
I'll talk about my my difficulty before I talk about Eric's, so mine. I still find it uncomfortable to talk about my spending on coffee and alcohol with Travis because he does not spend. He does not drink coffee or alcohol, not because he's opposed to them, because he doesn't like them, and he thinks they are like just wastes of money, and he's the savor in our relationship. He would eat out of a dumpster every day to save money. He would dumpster dive, not more as right, right, he would
dumpster dive more frequently than he does. I like to.
We love our husbands. We found such jem we do.
I I love him and I love his dumpster diving even uh so, but still because I these things that I really highly value is you know, going out to coffee with friends, going happy hour. I value these things and he like opposite of values them. He would never tell me no, but he always gets his like judge face on when I mentioned it.
So it's a tough one.
It's still uncomfortable.
Can you fix that?
I love that, you know, the judge face?
Yeah? Yeah, I mean after nine years, I've he's got it down, pat, he has refined his judge face. He's good at it.
Does he have a hobby or something where you can almost feel like it's you get to do this, you get to do that?
Where then yes, he loves disc golf, and so he has a mile high stack of discs and.
Most of them finds a dumpster most of them.
He used, if you guys coffee and alcohol in the dumpster, it's fair game, Jen, And this is this is our problem, right.
Uh so, yes, he does have that hobby, but he doesn't get to I mean, neither of us get to do our hobbies very often with like two small children. But yeah, yeah, he finds that he believes his hobby is an actual hobby and doesn't believe drinking alcohol is a hobby. It's crazy.
You could you could pitch it as the education there it is.
It's a little something that could turn into a side hustle.
We're gonna have to do an episode on beer and one and alcohol type saving money on them so that I can justify my hobby.
Totally, or it becomes like a club where you bring different things you can sample them. I don't know if you can pitch this into like it is your hobby.
I'm gonna have to get in contact with with the Deadpool guys so I can we can do aviation gin and I can be a business partnership.
I can't remember his name, no, Ryan Reynolds, Ryan Reynolds, I remember Blake Lively's name.
We all do right, Gosh speaking of jobs, yeah, Julia, Yeah, speaking of gems, Julia, thank you so much for talking with us today. It has been fantastic your views on values and incorporating those into your financial plan uh and building it around your behaviors. It was just so great. So if people want more of that from you, maybe want to seek your services or just find out more what you have to say. Where can people find you?
So? Yeah, my firm is called Ryerson Financial, and I'd be happy to chat with anybody. I do advice only financial planning, so I'm more work with those people who are interested in doing it themselves but just need a little coaching and guidance along the way. But yeah, it's been awesome chatting with you all and having this conversation Jen and Jill, it was great.
Thank you beautiful, thanks for being here.
Well, Jill, you've taken a lot away from that. I'm so excited.
For Yeah, better things for him and me.
Right, it's good.
It's good to relinquish control, and you know, it's good to give somebody something that they're not even asking for. Yeah, he's not asked. It's a lot on me and then look at me. I'm going to give him and isn't that just good on good wife?
So cool?
No, But truly I did enjoy the alignment of so many things. I saw such congruence in what she's describing regarding some of the deeper work that needs to happen to truly see shifts and our finances. And the same goes for when we're managing money with a partner and we're doing this in collaboration with another person, it's not just going to be about actions and behaviors. It's going to be about conversation and understanding and mutuality and negotiation.
And it, in the.
One hand, kind of stinks to be like, ah, dang, I don't have like a checklist of one, two, three, do this.
But at the same time, it's good to know that there's.
Just actual, authentic, helpful tips in have conversations, get to know one another, make it fun, work towards transparency and simplification. And I think that that's more accurate. Although we do love the simple quick tips, but I think this one has a more lifelong impact.
Yeah.
And something I didn't think I was, I didn't ask for, but I got was the difference between seeing why you would see a financial planner versus a financial therapist. So if your questions and your disagreements, your concerns with your partner are more of the how do we get on the same page with money, that's for a financial therapist, and there are amazing people that have designations that focus on that. While if you are most looking for okay, how do we get we know our plans, we're okay
with it. How do we get them create a plan so that we can create, you know, reach these plans together. That's the financial planner. I think maybe in the past I would have thought it's like, oh, we're not on the same page, so let's just seek the you know, financial planner and she'll get us on the same page. But there is a more effective professional in financial therapy, which is thankfully like a rapidly growing therapy specialization.
So excited for that. Also so excited that you guys are here listening to this. Thank you, Thanks for to listen. Thank you also to those of you who have given a review. It helps us a ton, and it helps fellow potential listeners to find us, to know what it's about, to know if they want to be in on this community. Every week we want to give a shout out to this one review that came from Profanograms.
Love that name.
Titled Frugal Fun Friends. Jen and Jill are the fun friends that we all wish we had with us every day. I love that it feels like you are hanging out with two best friends who understand the struggle of being a young person dare I say millennial who with student loan debt and trying to overcome slash deal with pressures from society. Fridays have become even more special because these two ladies let it drop every week with a dope
new podcast. Never disappointed. I highly recommend this podcast. You will fall in love with them just as I have. If you like money, minimalism and fun people, this is going to be your jam upside down face emoji, Aoka emoji side WINKYI emoji. Profanograms, you get it us And yeah, you.
Definitely have a singing fund called Tasteful New Phone Fund.
Thank you well, that was a good one.
You know, we are pretty much with you every day between Instagram, our newsletter, the friend letter for walfriendspodcast dot com, and this podcast. Because I don't know if you know this, Profinagrams and others of you. We let a new episode drop Tuesdays and Fridays, and then you're getting the newsletter Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then you're getting Jen at least in January, which is right now every single day on Instagram, talking to you about our no Spend challenge.
Yes, so thank you so much. If you enjoyed the so please take a minute to leave a rating and review. It helps potential new listeners know what the show is about. If there was an episode in particular that really impacted you and you really liked, please drop that in the review. So it kind of gives people a recommendation on Maybe the last few episodes aren't for them, but they can go back and and listen to one that might be
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Grugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.
Okay, Jen, I'm dying to know what what the rubs the rub that you witnessed was.
It was what I refer to the Sirianni shoe saga of probably twenty twenty twenty, where you were con convinced that Eric spent a certain amount of money on shoes had a certain number of shoes, and Eric was convinced he spent far less and had far fewer shoes, And you were both like at home, and the shoes could have been counted and were eventually counted.
But it was a rub, yes, and I was present for it. Yes, yes, yes, you remember far better than I do. There was discomfort in that conversation for sure, that there was literal rubs. You're not the only one who witnessed this. We have a couple, like a handful of visiting guests who can attest to how that conversation could become uncomfortable even for them. Like it was definitely a point of contention, more so for Eric than for me. I felt like I had a little bit less skin
in the game. It felt personal for Eric, which I mean it was. It was you know, fingers points at him. So mm hmm, what do you back? Yeah?
Did you feel uncomfortable?
Uh No, I was enjoying the show, I really, But here's the thing. I felt uncomfortable because I knew that it was so possible for us to know how many shoes he had, but there was nobody going into the room to count. I was like, we could know this. You guys are like talking about this, but we could know, No, we could right.
Now, We could know it.
Yeah, and I forget what the outcome was.
It was a beautiful outcome, actually it was. It was truly the best possible outcome for both of us.
No one won, no one lost because.
At the end of the day, Eric and I had exactly the.
Same number of shoes.
That said, I really was convinced that he had more than me. So in some ways I was wrong.
But he was convinced he had. You were wrong.
He he was convinced he had way less than me.
So we were both wrong.
We were both right, and honestly, since we've done the reconciling and the inventory that we've not we've not talked about shoes. The Sirianni shoes saga is over. And it also helped me. As we've frugal friends have come into our robust understanding of values based spending. I have been able to value that he values shoes.
Again, he's gonna push if he listens to this, he's gonna be like, no, I don't you think I love shoes And I don't love shoes.
So that part of it really does that for me, don't talk about it. I am talking about it here. He truly does. If he's going to buy anything, it's gonna be shoes. He loves them, and that's fine.
Does he love him or does he feel safer with them because he is color blind?
I don't. I don't know. That's a whole other layer.
I mean, if I'm not going to give him a hard time for wanting to buy new shoes, because Okay, this is what you value, this is what you love. It brings you so much joy if I love it for him to have more shoes than me, Like.
If I have like a solid grasp of color, I would not buy shirts and pants, but I would feel very confident buying shoes.
But see the reason he loves shoes so much is because of all the different designs. He's like, oh yeah, I like this color, and this the design, this design and this, oh yeah, designs, but also color schemes. I don't know, Jen, but you know what, I'm okay with it. Good, and he's okay with it.
And I would love to know who has more shoes today.
That's a good.
Yes.
We'll never know that, we will never know.
I will go in and I will, honestly.
He might.
He might actually, because I did just get rid of like three pairs of shoes that I don't plan to replace, So.
He still has more shoes than you don't think.
Oh yeah, he's always had more shoes.