Managing Money and Anxiety

is there. Wherever you may find yourself, we see you and we want to be able to provide some tools and resources for you.

a universal human right. We are so passionate about mental health and making sure that everyone feels cared for, and so we want to care for you if you are dealing with anxiety. We chose to focus on anxiety because it is the number one diagnosed mental health disorder and so many people are are dealing with it without a clinical diagnosis. And so with that fact, we really didn't want to just cover all of mental health. We wanted to focus in on this one thing, and luckily there's

there's a lot of writing on it. But if you are interested in just overall mental health, we did an episode with Melanie Lockert, episode one ninety four, paying Off Debt and it's associated with your mental health. That's a really really good one. So I would recommend scrolling back to one ninety four. But let's get into our articles. Jill, this is very much an episode for you. I'm so excited that you are our guest.

like anxiety. But I do want to run through this first article that comes from bank rate, and it just gives an overarching view of some of the research that has been done recently on the intersection of mental health as a whole with our finances. A lot of this is going to be talking specifically about anxiety, and we will get more and more into that in the second

half of what can be done. But I do think it's worth acknowledging what are we looking at, what are we facing, because I think identification in any situation is one of the first steps that we need to be aware of what's happening worldwide, nationally, within our communities, and within ourselves before we can even know what is the

best response going to be. So this article from Bankreat is titled more than half of Americans say money negatively impacts their mental health, up sharply from a year ago. And I think a lot of us can commiserate with this. I think we've got a reality to what's happening in the economy and with inflation, and whether or not each one of us has received raises and are they keeping up with inflation, and then you name it on the personal circumstances that may be happening even as we are

still recovering from the pandemic. So here we are, and Great actually commissioned research to be done on the correlation between mental health and money and you'll love this jen with a total sample size of two thousand, three hundred and sixty five US adults, and they were surveyed recently April twelfth to fourteenth, twenty twenty three, so at the time of recording this was within this year. So we just want to go through some of the main findings.

And I will say this too. One of the reasons for highlighting some of these key findings and statistics is for the sake of normalization, which is one of those terms that we use even within the clinical world and mental health world, of something that's helpful when we can find ourselves amongst friends and others having similar experiences to us, that what we are experiencing is common. Not to say that you're not special and unique, but that you're not

alone in it. That if you are feeling anxiety and depression just on its own, but especially if it's connected with finances, and the two kind of volley back and forth in their impact on one another, you're not alone. And one of the key findings that they state here is that money takes a toll on mental health for so many Money is the most cited factor that has a negative impact on us adults mental health fifty two percent, ahead of one's own health, which is at forty two percent.

Current events the toll that it takes they're listing at forty one percent, the health of family and friends thirty six percent, relationships with friends and family thirty two percent, and work thirty one percent, So all kind of within that thirty to fifty percent range, but really spiking around the money issue and its impact on mental health again at that fifty two percent, And I would imagine too, because money can be a circumstantial depends on what's happening

that we've all probably every single person, myself included and those of you listening, have experiences at one point. I mean we're talking time of survey, but depending on what you've experienced throughout life, you have probably had an experience where money led to high anxiety or symptoms of depression for you. And it's so drastic, that's such a high number, more than half.

someome thoughts, loss of sleep are caused by economic factors. So, according to the survey, sixty eight percent say it's due to inflation rising prices, thirty one percent say to write interest rates, and then twenty nine percent say it's from not having a stable income or job security. So our economic landscape in the last year or two has changed drastically.

So if your feelings of anxiety are new or maybe heightened, then that's kind of the may be one of the reasons why, So take heart that things are changing and so it's causing an increase in anxiety.

from the previous year. In what the response is indicated, twenty nine percent of those who say money has a negative impact on their mental health say they worry about money daily. That's a significant amount of people, twenty nine percent, I mean, of those who say it impacts their mental health negatively, that's a lot. And so chances are we're talking to some of you who, yes, I'm not only thinking about my money daily, but it is a daily

stressor for me, it's not helpful thoughts. They are relatively negative, overwhelming, unbearable types of thoughts related to my finances.

article the financial cost of anxiety so retail therapy. So a lot of people are more prone to impulsivity when their anxiety is high. Whether you deal with this on the regular or you're in a season of it. Public transit, even if you are somebody who usually takes public transit, sometimes anxiety can come out in the way that you don't want to be surrounded by other people, so you

start taking ubers and taxis instead of public transit. And then also treatment, So if you choose to get treatment for your anxiety, your average cost of therapy is ranging from one hundred to two hundred per session without insurance. And so these are some of and not to mention. If you choose to take a medication if you're prescribed one. These are the costs that come with this and can't

be ignored. We want to think about this when we start to think about, like how do I budget with the times being as anxiety producing as they are, and how am I going to process this anxiety healthfully instead of bottling it up and burying it down deep inside until the housing market or something crashes and then we can come back out like a butterfly. I don't believe that's going to happen, at least not anytime soon, So I think processing it in a healthy way is probably

better for you and your finances. But yeah, so I just wanted to add that quick sidebar in there that there's also a cost to managing it.

they're one and the same. Sometimes that is the hamster wheel we're on. Sometimes we can find ourselves in one of those two camps. So just to tease this apart a little bit, it's worth acknowledging or identifying where we might be finding ourselves at any given point, because again, that's going to help us in identifying then what do

I do next. So there could be some where the primary concern is mental health impacting money, And what we mean by that is that some mental health concerns are associated with impulsive behaviors, which can make it even more difficult to budget appropriately, manage, spend, or save. And the primary reason for those difficulties with personal finances is the mental health diagnosis. First, that causes greater barriers to our ability to implement changes and patterns that are going to

be beneficial for us. There is no shame in that. It is worth knowing though, And again the way that we may respond to that might be first and foremost, receiving care and support and resources, possibly medication for the mental health concern prior to, or maybe in conjunction with, looking at finances and the behaviors around that, because just looking at the behaviors and not the underlying or overarching mental health concern. Isn't ultimately going to solve the problem.

And then conversely, we've got situations where money is primarily what's impacting mental health, and that's more your circumstantial issues that are leading to impact on our mental state, mental emotional, relational state. That could include specific financial hardships that can

increase our experiences of symptoms of depression and anxiety. It could be having debt and feeling the weight of that mentally and emotionally, and that leading to increase stress, intrusive thoughts, kind of constantly being concerned about, feeling anxious about the realities of the debt that you owe, not knowing how you're going to meet all of those payments. So again that's an example of circumstances that are impacting mental health.

Even still, it's going to be helpful to see a mental health professional, but in those types of situations, it's definitely going to be important to recognize the circumstance and be able to come up with a tangible, implementable plan because that's going to have a very clear and positive impact then on your mental health. When you feel as though you're in control of it absolutely.

our next article from gosh. One of my closest friends, Alison Baggerly over Inspired Budget, and she has also amazing things to say about managing your money when you have depression or anxiety. So I'm so glad we're going through her article because I've heard her speak on this and she has such wisdom.

our emotions, at least for me, as I was reading this, I found myself very comforted by her words, and I'll affirm all of the steps that she says, but even before that, I'm going to re emphasize that identifying first and foremost what it is that you're dealing with, what you're experiencing in your mental and emotional health health, and

how those symptoms are showing up for you individually. Because while there's a whole diagnostic statistical manual that's going to tell us what is the diagnostic criteria for these different mental health concerns, is still going to look different for every person. So first having an understanding of what are the symptoms that I'm experiencing, what does this look like for me in my body, in my mind, in my relationships, and what do I want to see change and be

different here? It could be that before we even get to these steps that Alison outlines for us in this article, that we need to seek out care from a mental health professional first. So we're definitely going to be getting into steps just related to specifically personal finance, but please hear me say that it is recommended, good and right to first go seek help and support even if you

feel like you're drowning in debt. If you are experiencing severe negative impacts on your mental health and relationships as defined by you, then seek your own care before you begin to try and make minor changes to actions, behaviors or what's written down about your money on a piece of paper. Yeah, so there's that caveat, and then from there getting into these tips for what we're going to do.

out by someone else. So there is a time, and we talk about this all the time, there's a time for creating your own plan, and we want you to do that when you are feeling anxious or when you are in a season of high anxiety. Not the time unless you already have a concrete plan that you've made for yourself. Even still, it may be time to amend that plan. So if you don't already have something to amend, then follow a plan that somebody else has already written out.

Don't think about doing it perfectly, don't think about how to customize it. Just if you feel like you're treading water yet you are already seeking help for that, then the first thing is to follow a plan that can be written down. So for Alison, her plan and looked like step one, save an emergency fund, Step two, learn how to write a budget that works for her, Step three track my expenses, step foward utilize sinking funds. So

it's very granular. A lot of financial plans are very broad, and so Allison's plan that she just made for herself that she followed was really with the inspiration what's the next right thing? And I know that's something that when people are dealing with anxiety or depression, you just do the next right thing. And that's really the type of financial plan that we're going for just what's the next

right thing for me to do? And it doesn't even It can be big, like saving up the emergency fund, writing the budget, tracking expenses, but it can also be small. Day today, So what's the next right thing I can do? Make coffee at home, next right thing, pack my lunch, next right thing, creates some conglomerate of whatever ingredients I have in my refrigerator and pantry for dinner. Stuff like that.

They are small things. They are not going to change your financial life, but they're going to change your financial day.

hypervigilant kind of fight flight freeze mode. And one of the things that we can do, if we've not learned some helpful coping mechanisms for ourselves, is just kind of grab whatever we might be able to find in front of us, but we're not actually hitting the nail on the head, so to speak, with what the symptoms are connected to Sometimes our anxiety is connected to circumstances. Sometimes it's because of a clinical diagnosis, and we can't link

it to anything, and that's part of the anxiety. Anxiety leads to anxiety, or we get anxious about being anxious. But with this having a plan, especially if our anxiety is related to money, it allows us something that we can put our efforts towards that might be able to quiet some of that hypervigilance, that fight flight freeze that we're experiencing, where we are able to look at the

threat that's in front of us. Maybe it's debt, maybe it's feeling as though I'm not going to be able to pay the next bill, or maybe it's just wanting to feel the sense of security. And if we are able to have a plan, I'm not saying it's going to resolve the entire thing, but it is something that can be a target, something we can aim at and

even be reminding ourselves of. Well, but these are the steps that I'm taking, And I know that I feel this way about this money issue, this money stressor but I have a plan in place, and that can be again one of the first steps that helps in relieving some of those symptoms and then from there, the next tip here is to build a savings and sinking funds.

This too will help decrease some of the anxiety or depression that we might be feeling about our finances, because again, we've got a plan, We've got something in the back burner in a high yield savings account for those rainy days where when those anxieties or intrusive thoughts pop up, we can know we are saving for this or there is some money in this sinking fund to cover XYZ

circumstance that's happening. Whenever we have some of these tools, resources, reserves, a plan in place to attack the real or perceived threat, it's going to help quiet some of that internal monologue.

okay when you get there. And that is easier said than done, for sure, but know that even when you have a savings foundation that it may not be enough. So let's continue to go down the list, shall we. Uh. The third is to automate everything as much as possible. I think it goes without saying. We automate our bills, we automate our rent, we automate our savings. I know some people who like to pay things manually, but again, when we're in this fight or flight mode of anxiety,

then making sure things are automated. But then we can also get too automated. So like subscriptions, when you are feeling anxious, the last thing you want to do is look at your transactions find out how much you've been spending to cope with your anxiety. But you need to see what are the subscriptions in there that you've automated

that you should stop paying. So I would say as a caveat to automate everything, I would say this is also the step to get in there and stop automating what you don't want to be spending on.

be happening. It could be debt. It also could be time specific, so there could be certain times of the month that you feel increased anxiety related to money. Is it just before payday? Is it right after your mortgage payment goes through? Is it any time that you do actually decide to track your expenses that you experience kind of an increased heart rate and you're getting sweaty, or you're having difficulty relating to others who are in your

immediate space. This is even helpful to get into the minutia of identifying and being aware of and all of this is related to just understanding of self that it is good to know the specifics of what are the triggers, not necessarily so that they could be avoided, but so that we can learn how to manage ourselves. Better and better as we engage with some of these triggers, because just before payday is going to keep happening, Needing to

pay rent is going to keep happening. But if we can know, oh, those are the times that I'm experiencing increase difficulty with my mental health, now we're armed. Now we are even more equipped and prepared to care for ourselves well because we can then also pair that with efforts towards caring for ourselves. What do we need to

do then? If we know that this is going to lead to increased anxiety, it could be some of your very low level coping mechanisms of I am going to do a ten minute YouTube video of deep breathing exercises before I sit down to do my budget for the month. Some of this you're going to want to talk with your mental health care provider about of what what's your

specific plan. I'm just giving some examples here, But knowing the realities of yourself coming into some of that increased self knowledge is going to help us know then what do we do next. They can be tools and resources for us of how to hold the tension. What this could also mean is telling us what to avoid I know that I already said some triggers we can't avoid, but some we can. There may be some things that

we are doing that aren't actually helpful for us. For instance, are we feeling anxiety about our money and then we go watch a bunch of true crime TV and get even more anxious and we scare ourselves. It could be that even the things that we are entertaining ourselves with are adding fuel to this fire. And so anytime that we're experiencing higher degrees of anxiety or symptoms of depression, we're going to need to think about what to hold

the tension with. What is that producing in me and in my body, and what could I either take away or implement that's going to help bring some tension to it. I'm not going to use the word balance, but kind of help to bring an equilibrium that can happen inside of ourselves.

house or invest in your finding your radical middle. Sometimes it looks like, Okay, all of this debt, regardless of interest rate, is stressing me out. I want to get rid of all of it. I know I need to invest, but I'm putting it off. So when we are looking more at what makes us anxious, we can also start to correlate that with how we are formulating this radical middle financial plan and how we're prioritizing our financial goals. And the last one on this list is ask for help.

I know we said it at the very beginning. It's the first thing you should start with, but it's the last thing that you should think of as well. So asking for help, whether it's professional or just a friend, cooking dinner, running errands, daily routines, anything. So we always think of a therapist as helping, But there is so much value in community. There's an old saying like it takes a village to raise a child, but like villages are fewer and farther between, and it's not just for

raising children, it's for living. It like doesn't stop at childhood. It takes a village to live, honestly. Yeah, So not even just asking for help, but just being in connection with other people and sharing each other's burdens. So, whether that's venting or you're buying dinner for someone and they're buying dinner for you.

it's also just in gauging in supportive community. And one of the ways that we can do that is through listening and acquiring resources that we know are going to help put more tools in our tool belt and help us address some of the experiences that we're having, like listening to podcasts and reading helpful blogs or finding books that are going to give us some of the knowledge that we may be missing, and yeah, cooking with other people and just doing all of the things, and we

need each other, none of us as purely independent. And you know what, we also need that. It's going to happen multiple times a week, almost more than therapy.

but your bill perfect. Visit Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash Bill. Leave us a bill. We cannot wait to hear it.

sometimes depression given the various state of things. And if you've listened to recent episodes, you know that for me personally with Eric, we're making some changes in our careers currently or at least for me, and it feels like it's effected for both of us, which means making less money and especially in the state of inflation and where the economy is, that can at minimum lead to increased stress, if not also experiencing.

is going on inside of me at least just name it. Okay, I'm feeling shortness of breath, I am feeling quite overwhelmed. Here might be some of the things I'm thinking about. If I can take it a step further to say, what is this connected to, or what thoughts came just before this, or what circumstance just happened, that can help me too. Sometimes we don't know. Sometimes I don't know. This is just how I'm feeling right now, So then I can just move into the next thing of is

there an action that I can take? Usually, if I am feeling quite heightened anxiety, it will just be like belly breathing. I know that a lot of times we'll talk about deep breathing, but I want to really emphasize that it's not chest breathing, it's belly breathing. You have no idea what I'm talking about. Then you absolutely need to look into this further. There's YouTube videos, there's podcasts.

Many of us are breathing incorrectly. We're not getting the oxygen that we need into our brains and into our blood flow that's actually going to help reduce our symptoms of anxiety, at least in the moment and in the here and now.

have in place to achieve some of that progress. Actually putting action to the experience, and feeling like I am able to take some version of control over what's actually within my control bear influence on what is actually mine for me, It helps to lessen what I'm experiencing in that moment. And sometimes some of my proactive ways of doing this is just being in my spending plan twice a month that corresponding to each payday, I am looking at the money. For some people, that's going to be

more anxiety producing. So it's worth seeing. Can you just do this monthly? Can you just do a check in every six weeks? But for me personally it helps. It feels like a proactive measure to know I've got a plan, I'm taking control of what's within my control, and that kind of mitigates some of that anxiety for me.

lifestyle and work life balance. And it was something we knew we could would do financially, but it was almost look like it was something that needed to happen so badly that we almost had to like leap before we fully looked. It was kind of one of those things like, Okay, this is the minimum threshold. Anything at our above this minimum threshold we can do. And it was at that minimum threshold, so it's like, okay, we can do this. He spent about six months looking for something in the

it was the schedule that we wanted. So I am in a season of heightened financial anxiety from that change. Has anything actually come to fruition that my financial fears are about Absolutely not. No, of course not. So I have to use reality to tether myself back to reality. I guess tether myself back to myself and look at our bank account and look at our expenses and our income and in the ways that I can control it. I've also been experimenting with how we make money with

frugal friends. Like we've always been committed to not wanting to use our listeners for profit, so we don't sell any courses, we don't do any coaching. Like it's not a bad thing, and there are so many great courses and so many great coaches, but it's just not what we want to do. So we've kind of been testing ways to make more money from businesses who have a

marketing budget. So that's using my energy. That is something I can control and I do, but ultimately knowing like we're not going to go bankrupt, so I have to like keep reminding myself of reality and what reality looks like.

need to be tethered together. And if that means that it's going to take longer to pay off debt if that means I'm actually going to choose to take a pay cut so that my well being and my experiences in family life and personal life are better, like we need to be able to do that. Give ourselves permission, find permission within the community. Help others speak that permission, you know, give space for others to speak that permission to us. But all of these things need to be

taken into consideration. And again, if your mental health concerns are what's rising to the surface as the biggest concern for you, focus on that. Do that first, because it will have benefit on all other aspects of your personhood. You are still caring for your financial self if you're caring for your mental self, because thankfully that's the beautiful.

you find yourself, please know that you're not alone. There is someone else out there managing some very so smilar things to you, and please get the care and support that you need. You know yourself best, so take those next steps. And if one of your next steps is maybe leaving us a kind review, I mean that'd be awesome.

It's for everyone every day. The article review format brings a lot of good tips, and I am loving the new format of occasional episodes, in which the hosts share their expertise without articles. I've learned a lot, but more importantly, gained motivation from this supportive and radically Middleish approach to personal finance. Oh my heart, I mean that review.