Is Medical Tourism a Good Way to Save Money? with Dr. David Vequist

episode that nobody asked for. We wanted it. I was I don't know what it was, but I was thinking about medical tourism and how shady it sometimes feels or seems, and I was like, is I mean we are the podcast about saving money? We are the ones that need to be talking about this, right, Yeah? If you can travel somewhere and save money on your medical procedures, should you? Should you? Could you? Yeah? And then came the task of Okay, who's going to talk about it and what

kind of person are they going to be? And I was nervous about what kind of person we would get to talk about this, but we looked out so hard with doctor v Quist. He is such a gem. All of our fears subsided and is completely knowledgeable about the subject without being biased. It was literally everything I needed to really learn objectively about this topic. I mean, there might be some bias, but he definitely has done a

ton of research on the topic. No specific sponsorships that he's trying to push or ways that he's making money off of it. He's genuinely curious about it, has researched it a ton, and is just an expert in wealth of knowledge, not only as a doctor in the medical field, but someone who has done some extensive research on this particular content of medical tourism. So we could not have found a better person, I don't think, or a more

kind person to talk on this topic. I'm so excited for you all to listen before we continue to geek out. This episode is brought to you by root Canal. If you need a root Canal, try the three day spending Makeover. It's much less painful. It will do nothing for your tooth. By the end of this free three day challenge, though, you will find what you value spending on, learn strategies for saying no to the things that you don't, and create a plan for guilt free spending that may allow

you to say faster to afford that Root Canal. If that sounds interesting to you, head to Frugal Friends podcast dot com, slash makeover and get started today. Wow, great tie in though they don't sound very pleasant, but a free three day spending makeover that is. That's nice. That's

a makeover you want. So why do we talk so much about healthcare Because it's one of your where you're going to find one of the biggest bangs for your buck when you are saving and one decision in the healthcare in your healthcare spending can save you thousands, if not tens of thousands, and no latte decision can do that for you. So we have a few other episodes like episode two hundred and thirty negotiating Medical Bills and

Debt with doctor Virgie Bright Ellington. We have episode two fifty four how to Save Money on health Insurance with Eileen Doherty, and now we are continue that with episode two ninety nine on medical tourism. And we are personally not for or against it. This is literally our quest for knowledge on the topic, and we're super excited that we were able to have that conversation with doctor David v Quist. He's the founder and director of the Center

for Medical Tourism Research. So it's the first academic center in the world to study the growing industry of medical tourism. So his cross border experiences have translated into a broader worldview with a richer appreciation of how globalization has greatly impacted health systems over the last few decades, and how technology has really made this a lot more accessible and

even safer. So let's broaden our horizons, broaden our understanding a how doctor v Quist to explain this to us without further ado, Doctor Vequis, thank you so much for joining us on the show. We are super excited to talk about this topic. I'm very excited to learn more about it. Absolutely, yes, thank you for being here. It's good timing for us too. My husband and I were just talking about, oh, maybe getting a dental procedure abroad instead of in the States, but we know little to

nothing about that process. So thank you for coming and illuminating us. So for starters, can you explain a little bit about what is medical tourism? How does it work?

Just kind of one oh one? Absolutely well. The first thing to know is that this history of what we call arbitrage, meaning going to find something that is in higher quantities or else or in a higher quality level somewhere else has been around since the beginning of history, so medical tourism itself has been around since the beginning

of history. We've seen situations back in ancient Egypt where people would travel to Egypt for these really great practitioners that were there at the beginning of civilization, and even during Roman times, people would travel to places like what's now known as Switzerland and what's now known as Turkey for things like the baileynoe therapy or water based therapies, and also the travel for again to get access to things or potentially get access things at lower cost has

been around for a very long time, and the modern iteration of it, it's essentially health seeking behaviors and patient consumerism, which is truly changing the world. It's not just in the United States, not just in Canada, it's not just in Europe, it's not just in Asia. It's everywhere, and we're seeing people all around the world basically getting access

to information, primarily through the Internet. The Internet has been the great equalizer, if you will, and allow people to have more and more information about what's available and potentially what the cost are, and that has led to greater amounts greater amounts of consumerism, greater amounts of health seeking behaviors, greater amounts of transparency. And that's essentially basically allowing people to get access to the care that they need, when they need it, and at the costs that they can

afford to get it at. That's a helpful framework because I think when I hear medical tourism or going somewhere else for our procedure, it feels outside of the norm. But to realize and hear you describe this has gone on since the beginning of time as far back as we can see, but it feels as though one of those suations where people find themselves in like a scam or a botched surgery, or there can be a lot

of fear around it. So to hear from someone with your background and expertise saying this is a reasonable way of going about certain medical responding to certain medical needs, the health seeking behaviors, it's really helpful. Yeah, yeah, thank you, It really is. If you think about it. What you sometimes see in the media coverage is what's going to draw in viewers. So if you hear that thousands of people went abroad and receive surgeries that did not result

in complications. Is that going to be something you're going to click on? Is that clickbait? And the answers know so the unfortunately what we hear is the circumstances that were negative. Now, from a scientific standpoint, what we don't know is you have to know both numbers. You have to know the number of people had both successful outcomes and the number of people that had unsuccessful outcomes in order to understand the incident rate of particularly bad outcomes. Unfortunately,

we don't have good data on that. So in science and statistics, what you have to do is go back to the null hypothesis, which is the assumption that there is no statistical differences at this point based on what

we know about foreign healthcare providers. Say in places like Mexico, is that so many people in Mexico have either trained in the United States, They've done continuing education in the United States, they have linkages to US based healthcare systems and processes, they use the same protocols, the same protocols. Say that John Hopkins uses are seen all around the world. I can go into sub Saharan Africa and find John

Hopkins protocols because they're shared. So there hasn't been sign iificant amounts of research done on the comparative nature of quality outcomes in a country like Mexico versus the United States. So at this point, what we do know is you probably have to go to the null hypothesis, which means there's probably not significant differences. Now, one other interesting element when it comes to the US and Mexico relationship is the Mexican government back and around two thousand and eight

nine implemented the US based accreditation system. So the Joint Commission Accreditation, which all hospitals in the United States basically use, is the same accreditation system they're used in Mexico. So they're essentially used in the same quality systems. I would guaranteed it, except for your listeners right now that ninety nine percent of Americans don't know that, and it's so essentially the things you hear in the media. Can we be honest. It's there's sensational and people will click on

those things and they make interesting points. But from an actual scientific standpoint, we don't have evidence to show that Americans going abroad are getting that much worse care than they are in the United States. Quite frankly, wow, that research is helpful because I think, for whatever reason, probably media and the anecdotal kind of stories that people have heard, there's this idea that you're not going to get any better care other than rite within a ten mile radius

of your home. Yeah, and I think for every like, I am not super knowledgeable about like any negative stories on medical tourism are regarding like international procedures, but I am very familiar with family telling me negative experiences they've

had with procedures in the States. So it like that's what got me started thinking about how they can't, Like I wonder if there is a big difference, because I have heard I don't know why my family have so many medical procedures, but none of them seem to be happy with the level of care. And so it is just really interesting how we're like very quickly because of our proximity to be trusting of, you know, what's right in front of us, and then like think that everything

outside of what we know is very sketchy. Yeah, So it's it's an interesting confirmation bias essentially that we don't know what we don't know, but we're very sure of it. Even though we don't know, we never hopef we know that we don't know. Um. So, the United States, don't get me wrong, has extremely good care. If you look at, for example, survival rates, five year, ten year survival rates in terms of oncology, some of the best in the world. We do have some of the best healthcare systems and

some of the best providers in the world. But interestingly those good outcomes. There was a very old politician several years before the PPACA what some people call Obamacare was passed, that suggested that the United States was islands of excellence within a sea of mediocrity. And I love that saying.

That's a wonderful saying, and we do have. If you were to go to some of the best facilities systems in the world Johns Hopkins, Cleveland Clinic and the Anderson Mayo places like this, you are truly receiving some of the best care on the planet. And we do have excellence in the United States. Just the disparity and also the diversity in terms of the payments that people pay is one of the bigger issues. And so what we find interesting point in medical tourism, there tends to be

a bimodal distribution. You see very wealthy people, for example, in years past, Kobe Bryant, Peyton Manning, Alex Rodriguez, who was a baseball player that played with the Yankees. They all went abroad to places like Germany for care when they were in the top one percent of the US population in terms of wealth, So they traveled abroad. And we see wealthy people travel abroad for destination spas. We

see people wealthy travel abroad from cosmetic surgery. Interestingly, in some of the least affluent households in the United States and places that are very low socio economic status. For example, here in Texas, down on Larrio Grand Valley, we see a large number of people traveling for healthcare abroad among those populations, so a bimodal distribution, meaning we see more people that are wealthy and more people that are essentially

poor traveling for healthcare. The middle class are the people that typically have the belief system that you brought up, which as they say, let's just stay here, let's just do what's comfortable, let's just do what's here locally, And they're the ones that are quite frankly, not taking advantage of either higher quality or lower cost care. Yeah, it sounds like just because there is good care to be

found within the United States. It's not to the exclusion of good care to be found elsewhere, and that there might be varying reasons for people to do that, either higher levels of care or maybe less expensive, but quality care to be found if you kind of shop around around the world, Yes, absolutely, and so here's some great points since I got some numbers and some other things for you. It's not just shopping around the world, but

shopping within the United States. Several studies from within the United States have shown the pricing within even a state such as the state of California for C sections. For example, there was a study that showed there was a five hundred percent disparity difference in the price for a C section from one hospital to another, just in one state alone. So you could essentially drive from one hospital to another

hospital and pay a five hundred percent difference. So we've seen some great things happen in the United States that are helping with that, and some of these trends are legal regulatory under the Trump administration and now extended under

the Biden administration. We have transparency now where most hospitals share their pricing, including their cash prices in a recent study that we did here in South Texas, we found that the cash price difference between a MRI, which cash price a little over three hundred dollars versus the other types of payment systems, which include Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance,

was about twelve hundred dollars a little over twelve hundred dollars. Interestingly, if you look at the out of pocket expenses that most people, including mute ladies, probably pay, you're going to pay probably a twenty dollars or more depending on the location you go to. Then you have a deductible which is going to be at least a thousand dollars, probably more. If you have a family, you're looking at two thousand

dollars or more. So. Essentially, interestingly, paying the cash price rather than going through your insurance and the lords, you ignored the fact that you have insurance and just paid the cash price, went to the imaging center, the hospital, the doctor's office and say how much will you give me the MRI for If I pay you cash right now, you will probably get a lower price than you would have paid using your out of pocket expenses, your copay,

and your deductible. I've got a sneaky suspicion about that blows the mind, right, isn't that fascinating? So not only have this disparity and this cash price difference, so a couple of great things are going on. We're seeing increasingly more companies, billion dollar companies that are rolling out retail health options. We have technology companies. For example, I'm familiar with a company here in Texas that's called Lasso. Laso, a software company which allows people to go on an

app and find cash prices. And we're finding that increasingly there are systems and companies and brands that are trying to introduce you to ways in which you can negotiate lower cost sometimes cash discounted cash prices for these various sidures and it's basically better than it ever has been before. Yeah, I love that. That's good to know. So let's talk

about procedures and locations abroad. What are the most common kinds of procedures people will seek to get done abroad, and what are the most common locations people can expect to travel to. Now. Yeah, as I know, you have listeners from all around the world, so we do have to talk about not just here in North America, but all around the world, so it depends on where you're

located and where you're comfortable with going. So what we find when it comes to medical tourism, particularly international medical tourism, is the most prevalent feature is that somebody has a comfort level with where they're going. So if they've been to Europe before, then they'll be comfortable going to Europe. If they've been to Mexico before, they're comfortable going to Mexico. If they've been to Thailand before, then they're comfortable with

going there. So we see flows of people traveling to locations that they're not only very comfortable with, but that they understands their culture and environment, language, those types of things. So some of the most common destinations in the world are some that you probably have heard of or you can easily find on the internet. People travel from all around the world to India, a place that I'll be visiting again here in February. People travel from all around

the world to places like Turkey. People pay travel from all around the world to places like Mexico, Colombia, Dominican Republic, let's see Philippines, Singapore, the Malaysia. They also travel to if you will first world destinations for typically higher quality care. For example, people will travel to the United States, people will travel to Germany, people will travel to Korea for very high quality care. And in many cases they'll pay

cash as well. They've paid more than they would have paid in their country, but they go there because quite frankly, they know they're going to get some of the best care in the world. Awesome. Yeah, it sounds like people are going everywhere and it depends on what they're looking for. Have you seen any trends of these are the common things that this country might excel in. Yes, So the in general, what people tend to travel for is what they feel that they're going to get value for them.

So there was a really good book that was written by Harvard professor, very famous Harvard professor, doctor Michael Porter, who suggested that within healthcare, we need to stop having these artificial distinctions of the idea of quality as distinct in the consumer's mind from cost. The idea it's for example, if I were to tell you that you needed to buy a new car, one of the things you would do is you would probably look for a car that

actually had functional utility. In other words, you'd want something that had an engine, you'd want something that had the steering wheel, you'd want them something that had tires. So you could get a cheap car down in a wrecking yard that doesn't have any of those things right, but it doesn't have functional utility for you. So just getting the cheapest thing isn't the best way to look for healthcare. What you're typically looking for is what is the best value,

and that's cost and quality. So again knowing that like food, certain there's certain things that are better than other things in terms of taste, in terms of nutrient value, things of that nature. So when you're looking for healthcare, you're looking for the quality you will accept at the price you can pay. So you have to kind of balance those two things together. So when we're can it value, we find that people find value in things where they

can't really distinguish between the overall quality. So dental so for example, most people think that for example, if I'm going to have a dental procedure, even something where a tooth is removed and you have it replaced with prosthetic or an implant, most likely I'm not going to die on the chair, the dental chair while they're doing the surgery.

So therefore, from my values perspective, if I can save hundreds of dollars doing that and the value has not that much different between an American dentist and saying a dentist in Costa Rica, then at that point you're going to go, well, you know, if I can save hundreds of dollars at pace for the airplane ticket, I get to go to a beautiful country maybe after the dental procedure and me and my family go to the beach

and enjoy that. You're getting a vacation and the dental procedure for the costume in the United States, then it's got extreme amounts of value. So what we find is overall, dental procedures tend to make up perhaps upwards of say forty to fifty percent of all the procedures that are

medical and dental nature. Now, there is some research out there that argues that wellness procedures actually are even greater in terms of the total market share, but it's very difficult to distinguish between, for example, a person traveling internationally and going to the spa at the hotel from somebody that goes to a destination spot. So those numbers are a bit inflated, but we do know that wellness is

very large. Past that we see a lot of general surgical procedures that includes and sometimes broken out the cosmetic surgery. And that's for again for situations where is a little bit of an extra extra costs that you probably don't need to spend because quite frankly, you don't need it, But it also conclude something where somebody affects how they feel about themselves and so therefore they want to have a better quality life if you will for those types

of procedures. Again, you can save a great deal of money. Some of the medical tourism literature says in general, for surgical procedures, you're going to save, depending on the country, anywhere from say fifty to seventy percent of what you would in say Europe or Canada or in the United States if you're paying out a pocket. And interestingly, by

the way, Canadians also travel for healthcare. Many people don't realize that, but Canadians travel because they have very long wait times and so therefore if they have to wait six months for a procedure, they're oftentimes more likely to come into the United States or go to another foreign country to get access to that and pay cash rather than wait for that six months before they can get access to a doctor. Personally, I'm experiencing my own barriers

to entry decrease. Like my aversion to this idea is kind of softening. And I mean especially with that Costa Rica example. So interesting that we've seen this really fascinating trend that came from Asia, then we see it in

the United States now, particularly among women. What we have is these kind of ladies travel abroad trips where they'll do it as a group, and you see this places like there's a website called the Real Self as I recall that has listings forums of women that get together and they'll talk about how much they paid, where they went, what their experiences were with certain providers when it comes

to things like cosmetic surgery. So they oftentimes combine a medical trip with a vacation and they'll go as a group and they negotiate a group price, and they're able to take advantage of really very good care in places like the Dominican Republic. I was in the Dominican Republic and there's many many Americans to go there, and essentially you go to two different locations. You go to a cosmetic surgeon and then you get, for example, a mommy

makeover of some type. And then what you do is you go to a rehabilitation location that's typically on the beach, and then what you'll do is you sit on the beach, you drink my ties or Margarita's, and basically rest and relax after the surgery, and you've saved a great deal of money. In fact, it's in many cases it's actually cheaper than the procedure in the United States, and you get a vacation for it as well. I feel like you're already kind of describing how some people enter into

this and how they're choosing to do it safely. But from your perspective and what you've seen, what would you say to someone who wants to pursue medical tourism safely, maybe in as least stressful, difficult kind of a manner. Where would they begin? How would they pursue that? That's a great question. So there are a number of businesses out there that have cropped up over the years that are what we call facilitator businesses, and these are essentially

for somebody like my age. I remember when there was travel agents and travel agencies were a thing, and it's essentially a travel agent that arranges for care for other people, and sometimes they have some more information than you might have. But quite frankly, based on the research and based on my personal beliefs, that you can find most of the

information you need through various sources on the internet. Now, even though I've stated that the research shows that overall from outcome standpoint and obviously from a cost standpoint, that this is beneficial when it comes to healthcare, any additional factors that contribute to healthcare experience can possibly induce risk. So obviously buy or beware by going abroad, by going even a long distance, you may be away from your

support system that could be potentially a problem. Many people that travel do bring a spouse sort of loved one with them, family member with them. Interestingly, you may not be aware of this, but some company excuse me. For example, Walmart was one of the leading companies that did this for many years have introduced what's called domestic medical tourism

in their health benefits. And what they do is they will pay for a worker, employee and a spouse to go to one of the centers of that like I mentioned earlier, like Mayo Clinic, and then they'll pay for those treatments there because most the centers of excellence actually have lower cost basis than a traditional hospital. So a good hospital typically it can do things, believe or not cheaper than a hospital that's average. And so we oftentime

see people travel with some support system. But whenever you travel, whenever you go somewhere else, there's the added potential of infection rates, there's added potential of complications that could occur, and that puts you away from your support systems, things of that nature. So it's not without some risk, but it's a matter of you determining whether that risk is appropriate based on the financial decision that you are going

to make. It's occurring to me that we might also be more so talking about a procedure or some sort of specific one time medical care rather than maybe a more chronic complex. Maybe also depending on what the comorbidity might be, that your doctor might kind of know your situation and you're well acquainted with your doctor for years and years, might not be the situation in which you're

going abroad for something. Yeah, excellently, do you mind if I make just a couple of points that would be helpful, very helpful to your listeners. So obviously I trust my primary care physician. Many people do. And you have to understand that your primary care physician is wanting you to stay in that local region, obviously for the reasons I mentioned to increase kind of your total risk portfolio. But also you have to understand that your primary care physician

perhaps is friends with other specialists in the area. They go to the country club together, they their families know each other. So if you're asking them whether you should

travel somewhere else, even outside of your region. It could be somewhere outside of your city, your county, even state, or it could be internationally, the answer is most likely that they're going to say no, because if the word gets back that you to their friends that oh, I'm not suggesting the specialists in my local area and suggesting other people outside my local area. It actually there's a

relationship there, there's a network there. So please realize that there may be some bias in some cases that people will will not suggest that. Then the other thing we have to talk about the big issue in the room, and I'm sure you've had another I looked through some of the wonderful podcasts you've done, but we knew needed to talk about one of the things, which is the best way to reduce your healthcare cost overall for your life is good health. So you have to lose the weight,

You have to eat nutritious food. Prevention studies over and over again in the United States sort of the last several decades have found that over thirty percent of the total healthcare cost or due to your lifestyle. So if anything you can do to lose the weight, eat better food, do some moderate exercise, reduce your stress and anxiety, find ways to live a better life, you're gonna end up saving money over a long time. So interestingly, most people

don't realize this. One of the most healthy populations in the entire United States. You guys probably wouldn't even guess this even if I gave you like a hundred chances you're ready. The Amish. The Amish, oh yeah, people live generally longer than most of US populations. They tend to be healthier, and interestingly, they engage in medical tourism. What they do is they do cash payments, and they typically neotiate a cash payment as a contract if you will

for the entire Amish community at local facilities. And what they do is they're choosing. They choose the facilities that obviously give them the best care, that give them the best price. And then what they'll do is they'll travel outside of their communities to other communities to be able

to get access to care. And yet they and they have They receive no government payments, no government intervention, no government public health and yet they they're one of the healthiest populations in the United States, and we oftentimes want to we want to forget about them and think that, oh, that that's an anomaly. It's not an anomaly. They exercise, they eat well, they pay in cash for their healthcare, they reduce their stress, they have good support systems. My gosh,

they have great support systems. I mean, it's I'm not saying we should live like the Amish. I personally love my phone and I loved my technology, and I love my life. But you know, there's a lot of things to be learned there, and yeah, we shouldn't discount out completely. Do you know what else is a healthy practice and habit and reduces stress and we should be implemented every week every week. The Bill of the week. That's right, it's time for the best minute of your entire week.

Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage, maybe your car died, and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck bill, Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton. This is the bill of the week, Doctor v Quist. Every week we invite a listener or our guests on to share with us their bill of the week, and we would love to hear yours today. Oh I was telling you, ladies earlier. My wife and I have always been considered frugal, and

our parents somewhat disapproved of it. Our kids thought we were a little weird when they were going up at their frugal now and all gen Z I think is the same way. And I tell you why. It's just it brings me a sense of pride and a sense of satisfaction when I know that I'm getting something for a discount and I'm being a good steward with my money. And so I have to tell you. We pay off for credit cards every month, we have very few bills.

In fact, we're almost paid off with our house and that will be essentially our last loan that we ever have for the rest of our lives, and so we've paid off everything whenever we can, simply by living frugally. And the one of the things that it brings me a lot of satisfaction just happened last week is we get a percentage back from our credit card which is

associated with Sam's Club. So we go into Sam's Club and they Now what they do is they have the option at the POS system where you can actually take your percentage that you made that month and take it directly off the bill. So I went into Sam's bought a whole month's worth of food that we could use and various other things. It was like ninety five dollars.

I had eighty five dollars on my Sam's Card credit rewards that I received, So I paid like ten dollars at Sam's and I've got this huge thing of food and toilet paper and everything else I needed in front of me. And when you're paying ten dollars for that because I used my credit card for gas and everything else, Wow, what a great feeling. That's awesome. Well done art to love a good Sam's Club hauls and using up those credit card rewards, that's amazing. Especially when that credit card

gets paid off every month. That's the key. Yes, if you all listening, it happened to be able to get out of Sam's Club or Costco only paying ten dollars, or you love your credit card rewards points, or you know you're just a person named Bill. Visit forgal Friends podcast dot com slash Bill. Leave us your bill. We love them all, we love collecting them. And now it's time for lightning roun woo. All right, So for this week's Lightning Round, we are all going to take turns

answering this question. And we amended it a little bit because Jill and I realized we didn't have an answer for the original one, so we're like, maybe we should amend it slightly. But what was the time you were surprised by the cost of a healthcare related item or overpaid for a healthcare related item? What'd you do about it?

What'd you do about it? So, doctor v Quist, I'm sure you have a lot of stories, whether it's personal or from other people you've heard of, So please, without going against HIPPA, so I have one that's pretty So for those of you that have employer based healthcare, you

probably know that the census. The type of employees that are in your organization determine your costs essentially of your healthcare because if you're fully insured, or even if you're self insured essentially, by the way, self insurance means the company pays directly for the healthcare costs to say, hospitals and doctors. Vers fully insured, you go through an insurance

company that kind of handles that for you. So at my university, and I sure hope they don't get mad at me for saying this, but we were essentially paying almost a thousand dollars a month for family health insurance out of our paycheck every month. That wasn't the the match from the university. So my wife had used our employee education benefits and we had met in grad school, but she decided she didn't she wanted to be at

stay hoole mom. Later, she decided, now that the kids are getting out of the house, she wanted to go back and be a nurse. So she went back to school just to take some nursing classes. Finish that, got a job with the local hospital. Sorry long story, but you're ready. She got basically health insurance that has saved us. You're ready for this drumroll, please seven hundred dollars a month?

What yes? So for literally the last year a little over a year now, since she graduated with her nursing degree, we have basically got seven hundred dollars a month back by going with one insurance plan through the hospital system she works with versus the university program that we had. So I tell you what, my gosh, that has been just an incredible savings for us, an incredible blessing for us. So I'm sure tool and the kids are out of the house and she she was to stay at home

mom for the entire time. And we by the way, also, if you have any friends or family that work at university, some universities give you free tuition for your children. So all my kids have gone to school for free. My wife went to school for free. We never paid a tuition bill for them. And now now because of her job, we now have saved seven hundred dollars a month. So thank you very much to her. I love you very much. Money. And wow, that's a that's an insane amount. Like no,

I don't think about that. If you if you were in Africa, it could probably feed and clothe the village for seven hundred dollars a month, easily every month, and then we were doing that just one family. Oh what a lovely story of how you responded to that amount of healthcare. Yeah, how about you? So similarly, I'm going

to go along the lines of saving money there. Through the healthcare plan that we have, we get free telehealth doctor's visits, so with things that I kind of already know what's going on, but I would like to know if there could be anything prescribe because I'm not able to heal up on my own. And so this would have been a couple months ago I was having an issue. I knew what the issue was, and I knew what

would resolve it. I didn't need a doctor's visit, but I needed a doctor to be able to like confirm it and prescribe me something for the fix. So had a free telehealth call, then went to the pharmacy to pick up the prescription, and I was already with my good RX app to get the discount and all of that. Didn't even need eat it because this prescription was like five dollars and thirty cents. I was shocked at the price.

I really thought this is probably gonna be a couple hundred dollars and I'm gonna need to figure out, oh my goodness, five dollars. So the whole thing where I and I didn't pursue the care for about a week because I'm like, I can resolve this on my own by drinking apple cider, vineger and eating a bunch of yogurt, and it just was not resolving itself. And but I should not have waited a week because in the end, between the doctor's visits and getting the medication, it was

five dollars modern medicine, y'all. I know, I learned. I learned my lesson just make the phone call. So for me, this was with my first child. I he was breech and he was a boy, So standard proceed they go to a pediatric orthopedic doctor to get there to get check for hip DISPLAYCIA and I brought him in to get to get the check at the week that they told me to and they were like, they charged me

for the appointment. They charged me for then reading what the x ray from the appointment said, and in that appointment said, oh, we couldn't read it, so you need to come back for another x ray and then pay for another appointment for to read and I was like, what what if this could have been? And he's like, oh, yeah, he's just a little bit too small, um. And I was like, I could have just come in like two weeks later. They grow like weeds and those first few months,

So what did you do? Did you pay for it twice? So I paid for another X ray and I did not pay for a follow up appointment because in my experience, if something is wrong, they call you a million dime. So I was like, no news is good news. And he runs fine. He runs too fine. Um, So that is not medical advice. We don't do as we do. But and also they wouldn't let me negotiate the bill either. They were so hard on it. Like I was able to negotiate down my like delivery bill, but they were hard.

And I guess it was because it maybe it was a specialist within the hospital and the within the children's hospital, but they were not having it. So that was another surprise, great story, this is all over the place. Well, yeah, this is a vulnerability segment. Well I mentioned this at the beginning when we were just talking before the show started. But I am just so proud of what you two are doing and helping your listeners to save money and have a better quality of life, and it's gonna bear

so much fruit. And just thank you for everything that you two do, and it's just wonderful. Thank you for your kindness, doctor Request, and for being on the show and for just introducing our listeners to this concept. If they want to learn more from you, the research that you're a part of, where can they get more from you?

So absolutely so, you can go to medical Tourism research dot org, sorry org, Medical Tourism research dot org and definitely just keep looking at the articles on medical tourism and you look at my name on a Google search and you're going to find a bunch of different research, including recently research about getting pharmaceuticals in Mexico. And we also have some research coming up on being able to retire abroad and save a great deal of money and

retire earlier. So just keep watching and listening. We'll have more research coming out. And again, there's no reason that healthcare needs to consume your life and cost as much as it does. And thanks to advice like this podcast and research we're doing, people are going to have better lives.

And I had one question that I forgot to ask earlier, but do you have information on your website about how someone can find one of those reputable like travel agencies for medical tourism or someplace to direct people to their Unfortunately no, So the because we're an academic research center, were extremely neutral. We're just interested in the trends and the research on it, so we don't give advice. Obviously, that's between yourself and your physician and your own conscience

and what your your preferred level of risk is. Um So, I'm sorry I can't give more detailed or more specifics to people. It truly is buy or beware, but I can tell you that the world is a better place than it ever has been before, and there's more options than ever before. And that's what your listeners should take away from this. Thank you doctor the quest. Absolutely, I don't know what I was expecting, but that's certainly exceeded

my expectations. It's one of those and I'm sure if you if you read the title of the episode, you were like, oh no, one whatto it running out of content? But we thought the same thing. I was like, oh no, this is probably I had it on the schedule and I was like, I took it off, and then because we actually couldn't find an expert to talk with us. And then doctor Viquis like he responded and scheduled, and I was like, oh crap, now we actually have to

do this episode. And so it was really it was really great to learn more about the common procedures where you might be going. And I mean, when you're looking for a travel agency to book this kind of thing, I think, since doctor Viquiz couldn't ethically recommend one, I think just do your own due diligence. I mean, I did some googling. They're definitely out there. They're not hiding. So, like with anything, reach out to several see who you

feel best about going with. Yeah, ask around too, because chances are you've got people within your network who have explored medical tourism. And I appreciate how doctor Viquis pointed out that it's not just traveling abroad or internationally. Medical tourism is can happen within the country that you're living in. I mean, and I know plenty of people who will travel across the country for certain medical procedures if a

hospital is known to be better than another. So I think for me, it really highlighted the areas of bias and ignorance, like where I think or relate in a certain way to my understanding of the medical world and how we make good medical decisions and really kind of decreasing that barrier to entry and understanding more about it. Yeah, I think I definitely had some biases and I knew that going in, and I wanted to be educated and not convinced, and I feel like that happened. And so

I mean, I'm excited. If I ever need a root canal, maybe i'll I'll try this out. Take a friend, you know. Yeah, I mean, not for the friend's sake to have a nice little vacation. But I do appreciate what he said about the support and having a support network. You never know what you're going to encounter in your own recovery,

and yeah, having such a familiar face could be really important. Yeah, it is something where there are a few other things to account for doing something either abroad or even across the country, that you don't need to account for if you're going down the street. And so that's something to consider if you want to explore this option. Is it worth paying more to be really close to home. Is there something in the country that's maybe a nonprofit hospital

that's comparable that. I'm okay playing somewhere in the middle. So yeah, just another instance where getting creative and doing your due diligence will save could save you money, our increase your quality. Thank you everyone for listening, for tagging along in our own quest for just greater understanding. I mean, medical bills is where we spend so much money. Many times it's unforeseen. Sometimes it happens in the midst of a crisis. So wherever we can figure out ways to

decrease those costs. I mean, we're here for We're at least here to learn more, and thanks for being here with us. We love, love, love reading your kind reviews. Obviously we love kind people. Doctor v Quist was one of them, and we especially loved this kind review. It comes from J and D forty one two eleven, game changing, no shame approach to personal finance. I am a podcast binger and this podcast is worth the binge. Jen and Jill encourages their community to choose frugality as a lifestyle

rather than a temporary tool to save money. Focusing on a balanced approach to financial freedom rather than sacrificing everything time, family and friends, mental health, etc. Just to make the debt payoff date one year sooner. Bravo. I feel like I can finally say I have found friends that have the same mindset of stewardship as I do. Oh my gosh, I feel like you have summarized our podcast ethos and approach J and D forty one to eleven in like

the best possible way. And it's reviews like this that make it helpful for others to identify is this podcast going to be right for them? That's the whole hope with a review of helping others determine should I even give this a try? Is it going to be for me? And you did an excellent job of highlighting really what we're all about, so thank you for that kind review. Yes, and the more reviews we have, the less people think that we're just stealing them from our friends and family

and writing them ourselves. So that's why we ask so often. So thank you JN D forty one two eleven, and thank you all treasured listeners. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to leave a rating and a review. Again, it helps other potential new listeners know what this podcast is all about if it's going to be a good fit for them, And again, we love the kindness. Do you just want to be kind to us? Go leave us a review. Absolutely, see you next time. Frugal Friends

is produced by Eric Sirianni. Did you want to say something about the Mommy makeover? We were just talking about that the every day we were in the car, and we're just commenting on how normal it's becoming. People just yeah,

getting botox or my Mommy makeover. I actually thought about that this morning, about how I said it's a blessing to look average because I've never felt the desire to accentuate any part of myself with like a Mommy makeover or botox, because, like I mean, I feel like good looking. People want to accentuate that and keep that going through procedures, and I've never felt a need to because it's just

prolonging averageness and it's a blessing I think. I mean, I thought about that this morning when I was looking in the mirror. Stop it, you are making me laugh. It's a very funny concept, like I don't need to accentuate more averageness. You are not average looking above average, I don't think very beautiful woman inside and out, with so much wisdom, knowledge to share with the world. Who needs botox? When I have you, I'm your botox ingestions. Come on over to my house, baby girl. I'll give

you what you me. I'll give you your mommy makeover and in mid tie. Yeah, and I won't have to compete the my time, won't have to compete with the major pain meds that you will inevitably guess. When he was saying that, I was like, well, you probably shouldn't have the mid ties after the procedure because you're probably gonna be on like vicodin or something, So keep that in mind. Just keep it in mind, keep it in mind. I'm not here to tell you what to do.