How to Have Healthy Conversations About Money | Create Healthy Financial Boundaries

talk about politics. We're just here to help you have good conversations about money, just one of the touchy subjects, not all of them. We can't do everything. So this episode picks up where episodes sixty two and sixty three left off. So sixty two is talking to your parents about their finances and that's with one of our favorite people, Cameron Huddleston's, and episode sixty three is getting your spouse

on board with frugality. So a lot of the same principles you used to talk about money with your spouse you can use with family and friends. So today we are talking about having those healthy, productive conversations with friends, family partner about money and how to approach them first. Our sponsors. This episode is also brought to you by Student Loans. Ever fall in love with someone and get tricked into marrying them only to find out they have a ton of student loan debt. Happens to the best

of us, including my husband. Don't worry if your partner has more student debt than they make in a year, it can be paid off, but only if you talk about it first. Just ask Travis student loan debt. Don't make big life decisions without knowing how much is involved. Oh my goodness, this was kind of funny and kind of like cringe worthy. Yeah, I know, like you started talking about it, like have you ever tried vanilla ice cream? Happens to the best of us. Have you ever married

somebody who lied you? At the start? I didn't lie. I did not lie. We were engaged, and I just didn't say how much student loan did I have. That's beyond the point. We're talking about conversations today, and those are things you should have asking the questions. It's really Travis's fault for not asking the question right. He just assumed that I was perfect him. Is simple mistake, simple simple mistakes. Like our article from real simple dot com. Um,

I'm really trying to get away from this conversation. Yeah, I see that you're redirecting hard. I am working, but it's how I got out of that conversation in Initially, our first first headline is ten important money conversations everyone should have and it is from real simple dot Com.

Really liked this one. I liked how they separated it between kids, yes, spouse and parents, and these are the conversations you should be aware and be focusing in on having with each of these categories, depending on who you have in your life, because we often focus on the spouse and forget the kids and the parents, and they're included. They're all part of us. So the article starts with spouse, will start there. Uh, And it gives this tip of that you need to talk about where your money goes.

I mean that's crucial. I agree step one, where does our money go? And asking are we tracking or spending? Do we want our money to go there? Where are we each spending? What are each of our priorities? Have the conversation, Yeah, I mean you can't talk about you can't have productive conversations if you don't have a foundation for what's happening, because one person is going to think things are way worse than they are. One person is going to think things are way better than they are.

So yeah, you have to know where the money is going at first. Um, the next conversation is do we need to change who does what? So it sometimes falls on one person to make financial decisions or to do financial things, and they didn't sign up for it. And sometimes they take it on because they like it, but sometimes they take it on because nobody else offered to

do it. And so that is a conversation you need to have so you can divvy up responsibilities according to giftings, according to strengths, and just according to like diving up the things that people don't like to do. And again it starts with another list. I mean, get used to that. You're going to be making a lot of lists of who is currently doing what, begin tracking all of that. Some of it may not have been spoken yet, some of it just might be you've fallen into these different roles.

That's fine, but take some time to reevaluate who is paying this bill, who's tracking our spending, who's looking at goals and keeping us on target? And do we need to have a conversation about giving that to the person who might be more skilled in that area or more interested in taking on that role, especially if it's become super burdensome. You never know your spouse may be interested in taking it on, passing that baton. Oh that's a ram. Yes,

next one to ask. Another conversation to have, is our our retirement plans on track? So well? Of course if you don't, if you're like retirement plan what then yeah, certainly you need to be having this conversation. But what are you aiming at? I know in a previous podcast we talked about long term goals. This is a fantastic time to think about what what are we thinking long term?

We're not talking two to five years anymore. We're talking and depending on where you're at in relation to retirement, uh, potentially twenty to thirty years out and are we on track for that? And the time to talk about that is a sap because you're never going to be better off in some of these long term goals than if you're talking about it as soon as possible. But of course,

looking for the right time to bring this up. And we'll talk about this a little bit more in our next article of how to have some of these difficult conversations, But this is an important one to be having. Even if you are in the thirties bracket still important, just as important as if you're in your fifties, sixties, seventies. Yeah, I've been reading the twelve week Year, and it's all about um having instead of planning for a year out to make every twelve weeks um a quote unquote year.

And if you are treating every twelve weeks like a full year, you get so much more done by the end of the year because you've essentially gone through four years worth of work and you can increase your productivity,

you know, over sixty percent. And I think translating that to your retirement plans can have a big impact for making sure your retirement plan is on track, because if you have made a twenty year plan for retirement, you can get pretty complacent for those first ten years, find yourself really behind, and have to work that much harder for the next ten years to get back on track.

But if you are treating retirement in a shorter term goals like three years, five years, or even shorter like maybe even you've got a twelve week goal for your retirement investments. Then you can make sure you're hitting those retirement goals um so much more and the goals can be so much smart smaller if you are breaking up a twenty year goal into twelve week in increments, so to speak. And for those who own your own businesses and you do quarterly taxes, this thing will come quite

factually for you. That will be perfect. Another conversation to have is what is our risk tolerance when it comes to investments. So of course this depends on the season of life that you're in. If you're still one goal and heavy going at debt repayment, this is a conversation that might be able to wait until you're ready for that investment stage, or if you're kind of doing both at the same time, then find how this conversation now.

But it is an important one because if one of you is very risk averse and the other is thinking that there's a fortune to be made in the market and ready to just kind of throw all the dollars at it, that could lead to some tension. That's how all were at that tension. So being able to talk about where you think you'll be able to grow your money how you want to do that and making sure

that you're both on board with that. Some natural times to have this conversation is during tax season or when you're looking at your investment income, to be talking about what are we both comfortable with and how do we want to approach investment. Yeah, and I appreciate their what to do first tip is learn need to know terminology. Because so Travis and I actually have this conversation this morning,

if you can believe it. Yes, not because I had already read this article, but he had brought up somebody at his work um does stock trading, and he seemed really interested in trying it. And I know very little about stock trading. I'm very risk averse. I steer towards the riskiest index funds is kind of as far as I'll go. So I know the history of stock trading and penny stocks and stuff like that. So we had to do research on terminology and the things his friend

had been talking about. UM. We needed to back it up with research and kind of take rub the shine off of all of the you know, shiny nous of what his coworker was talking about to kind of get down to the rawness of what it really was, and so um if that made any sense. So, it took a lot of of reading and research to to talk about this particular subject. To have an intelligent conversation about this, you've got to have a degree of understanding. You can't

talk about something that neither one of you know about. Certainly, you can bring in experts, you can look to the internet, you can read reputable articles about this to be able to help inform yourself. But this that is part of the process and learning together. Woe how much more productive to be able to be on the same page as you're learning would be fantastic as well. So yes, agree with these I think I would definitely just us the

the simple money conversations first. I definitely would not say jump to talking about investments if you don't know where your money is going. I think that even the order that the this article went in is fantastic because I think it's it's always just get back to the basics. We can make it so complicated, but if we get the foundations right in our conversations with these important people in our lives, then the rest will stack on top

relatively nicely. Yes, Uh, this is a really great topic to be talking about a few days before Christmas, because I think these conversations to have with your kids are going to be um some some very timely conversations. Yeah. So it goes into this next portion of the important topics to talk about with your kids, and the first one is you don't need that new iPhone, you want it. It's it's the same old, same old. I remember this

lesson being taught to me as a kid. The difference between need versus want and the definitions are vastly different between parents and children. Because for children, it's, yeah, I know that I don't need it, like I need food, but all the other kids have it, And how am I supposed to communicate? And my social life is going to go down the drain and whatever you fill in the blank. But being important to be aware of that mindset, like it's they're not just being like greedy spoiled brats,

Like there's there's a mindset behind it. Yeah, it doesn't

mean you give in. Seeking to understand your kid is fantastic, but helping them to recognize need versus want, and whether we're talking iPhone or something else, helping kids understand this will only set them up for a more beneficial financial lifestyle in the future, or to be able to differentiate, because right now, if you're buying it for them, it has far less value or weight to it than if they were to really understand what is the difference here

or had some skin in the game, depending on their age of being able to identify, well, is this something that I actually want to be able to put money towards. So having these conversations of determining what's essential and what's not can help them to make those decisions as they move forward in life and avoid this nasty debt cycle, which is I think the fact that we have not gotten need versus want sussed out in our own lives

is partly why we can experience such crushing debt. Yeah. Yeah, And I think if you are having a more frugal Christmas this year and not buying as many gifts, um, and your kids, you know, wake up Christmas morning, they're disappointed that they didn't get that toy or that electronic that they wanted. I think this is a great that's a great time to segue into a conversation like this. They say that you can bring it up by um, let's take a look at where the money goes is

a good opener. So talking to kids about where your money goes and and all that stuff and bring them into the conversation. You don't need to let them know everything, but you can be open about it. More kids understand more than we give them credit for, even at a young age. And the next one is definitely for older kids. Um is, I'm giving you your first credit card. But so this is a touchy subject. I don't know if

I would do it for everyone. I don't think every kid should have a credit card, but I mean I don't have at teenagers, so other people do give their kids credit cards to build credit. And definitely way in on this. But you know, when we talk about this in our Frugal Friends Facebook community group, you know it's really helpful to hear other people's perspectives on this. I am not so and this is where we talk about

articles and our own viewpoints on this. I would be very hesitant for this one, to be honest, but it would be a good conversation to have. I agree that this is a good conversation of how do we handle credit cards or debit cards and spending and how do we approach this and what are the benefits and what are the potential pitfalls. I would more so steer towards debit card. And they're talking about when your kids are juniors or seniors in high school, I would steer more

towards debit card, especially if they have a job. If they're going to be spending money, they should probably be earning money. So and certainly as a junior senior in college, you can have a job, you can get a part time after school, on the weekend, sporadic, whever you want to approach that job. And at that point, get a bank account, get a checkbook, get a debit card, and learn the hard way with real money, not the fake money that's on a credit card and they overdraft, they

pay the fee that I don't. I don't know a better way to learn. To me, that seems more wise than credit card learning. To me, that's the next step. Start with debit cards, start with real money, and then graduate if that's the best route for each individual. Yeah, And honestly, for teenagers, I think when they're that young,

they need to see cash in their hands. For the rest of their life, they're going to be paying electronically on their computer, on their phone, but for now, like when they're under your roof, having cash, paying with cash, seeing that when the money's gone, the money's gone, there's no there's no extension, that's just how much money there is.

I think that is going to be a more powerful teaching tool than giving a teen a credit card that you are responsible for, because that's not always financially smart for you either. Um and and but the credit card conversation does need to happen before college because there are so many banks targeting college kids, and they will if if they're they don't know about credit cards, they'll get their own credit card and they'll max it out immediately as soon as they leave your house. I remember that

experience being on college, my college campus. I remember that they had booths outside the dining hall with attractive people trying to get you to sign up for a credit card. And mommy and daddy aren't there to advise you on what you should or shouldn't do, and here they are telling you you've got a two fifty dollar limit and you can just sign up for it right now and get this piece of plastic and then be able to go buy what you want. And how incredibly dangerous so

informing children about that while they're still in your home. Yes, have that conversation. And next another conversation have is speaking of college. Let's plan how best to pay for college. So this is a conversation that needs to happen, like before your kid graduates. It needs to start winning there in middle Yeah, sometimes it's like, oh, we'll figure it out as we go, and sometimes that works in other situations,

but not when it comes to college. Uh So to be able to talk about and if you have college savings set aside, fantastic, but your kids should know about that of what are you willing to pay? What are the conditions of that? Have you set boundaries around that you're paying for their college? Is it dependent on them playing a sport or maintaining grades or however you want them to be approaching college If you're paying for part of that, this can also enter into all other types

of boundary conversations. Or if you don't have money set aside, okay, the kid needs to know that. Do they need to start looking for work their freshman year of high school to start paying to maybe consider community college or start saving up. Maybe they want to take a gap year, whatever the case is, these are big decisions, yeah for young kids to be making, but all the better if parents are approaching these conversations with kids three to four

years prior to that actually happening. And you can usually tell by the time a kid gets to high school whether they're going to want to go to college or they're going to want to do something else. So you don't have to College doesn't have to be the and all answer, like you can if you think that your kid might be better in a trade, then start bringing

that up. Start bringing up different options to them. Say yeah, you have to finish high school, that's a non negotiable, but start opening their eyes to other things that they're traditional schooling might not open up to them and still figure out how to pay for it and what they can expect from you as their parents financially when they do graduate from high school. And what are the expectations. Do you want them to get out and get a

full time job. Do you you anticipating they're going to college, you're anticipating their moving out? What all of these things are super important to have as the parent child relationship inevitably shifts. Yeah, So next is conversations to have with your parents this is when we talked about with Cameron Huddleson. But this is just a brief overview. Do you have

enough to retire comfortably? And this is going to be a very touchy subject that your mom or dad will probably not want to have with you that or they're the type that's gonna be super open, is going to bring it up with you not wanting to hear it.

But the holidays is definitely when you see parents. It's not often that we see Travis's parents, but the holidays is a time when we know we're going to see them, and so this is a time when we bring up like, so, how's how's your retirement, how are you on track with that? How many more years you planning on working? And and all that stuff. So this is a really good time

to bring this up gently when when they're in good spirits. Yeah, after but still remembering the conversation though that that really happy to have to remember it. You record it. Yeah, they do have to remember. You have to remember it. The other important conversation to have is have you thought

about long term care insurance? So the average cost for a private room in a nursing home can reach over ninety thousand dollars a year, so talking about insurance and prepping for this kind of thing can be a really

helpful conversation. Again, I would strongly encourage to reference back to the Cameron Huddleston UH episode because we really dove into the specifics of what types of things should we be talking about, having power of attorney and all of these types of conversations, and especially I would say, the

ones that impact you as an adult child. So while I agree with this conversation about retirement planning that it depends on the level of openness and desire to have these conversations with you as a child even though you are an adult. But where it impacts you and where you might need to step in and care and assist, these are where I would say especially crucial of who's going to help make these decisions? What if you are

unable to how is this going to work out? Because far better to have that decided ahead of time, prior to when everybody is healthy, then when something unexpected happens and the court system takes over. Only only we've heard horror stories. Yeah, definitely, So those are the conversations to have. So let's talk about now how to have them. Our next article is from common ground dot org uh and it's just it's about ways to have healthy conversations in general.

I don't think we have to keep it so specific with the money. I think we just need to have some topics that are good for general, general conversations which we can use these tools across the board, diving into finances and and practicing this discipline of talking about it helps us in so many other areas because it is an uncomfortable conversation. But the more that we get comfortable with it, the more we're able to offer dignity and value to the other person in these conversations, the better

off we are. And being able to have other conversations like politics and religion and all these other topics they tell you not to talk about, you're going to be better able to do that without causing a fight, exactly. It doesn't have to go there. That doesn't mean that there's not going to be tension at times, but learning to navigate conflict is an important part of life because it's unavoidable. Right, So first tips are bringing up a difficult topic. So I'm Jill, I'm super interested to hear

what you have to say. About all these because this is literally what you do for a living. You have difficult topics. So policies take us through. Yes, okay, I love what they have to say, so that it's a whole heading of how to bring up difficult topics. I love that they say, know what you want to communicate this. I can't stress this enough And it sounds so simplistic. But isn't that always where we need to focus in

on is what's the simple, most basic thing? Because so often I hear people describe I want to say such and such, and I'm just going to bring up the topic. And then I'll ask, Okay, what's the purpose? What are you hoping to accomplish? And I tell you what people say, I don't know. I just want to bring it up

and see where the conversation goes. It's like a mantra I hear over and over in my counseling office, and I'm just like, no, you're gonna walk into more than you bargained for, or you're gonna you're not gonna know where to go next or what to say, and it has the potential to blow up. Know your purpose? Why are you bringing it up? That can really help to even eliminate unnecessary conversations because if it's just I don't know,

I just thought that would be a good topic. Well, if there's no purpose to it and you don't you're not anticipating getting anywhere with the conversation, then don't go into it. But if you can say, I want to bring up retirement with my parents because I think that this is a good time and I want to come up with a plan with them that is agreeable to both of us, fantastic. You've got a purpose and an

end goal in mind. You've got the green light. If it's just like I don't know, we'll see where it goes. No red light, figure it out more before because because I think my parents are broke, I don't know. No, that's not a good purpose. The purpose has to be for you, like why do you why do they need

to communicate this with you? Why is it important for you to have this conversation, because maybe somebody maybe they need to have it in general, but maybe it's with someone else so or or how does this benefit them too? And of course I'm hoping that as you're approaching this, it's out of a place of value and care for the other person, not just I just want to like dig into this topic because I know it's going to

be uncomfortable. The other thing is to choose the space, choose the time, choose how you're going to approach it. I think that and I think I've brought this concept up in previous episodes, but it's worth repeating. Discovering the emotional and relational currency of the person that you're talking with, so being able to identify how do they want to be approached and approach them in that way. So is it over a nice meal, is it through a phone conversation,

is it beginning with a written letter? Whatever it is, Identify what that is for this person and start there and then ease your way into the conversation. If you know that they're not a morning person, don't have the conversation in the morning. It sounds simple, but again, sometimes we just dive into these things at the worst possible time, and that does not pave the way for healthy conversation.

So loved that anything that you wanted to say, Jen about bringing up a difficult topic before getting into the next category. The one thing that I really like is choose a quiet time and space. So that's where I imagine you'll definitely probably not want to choose Christmas Day. But if that's all you get, that's all you get.

But find a quiet time and space within that, and I think that will be set a better foundation for getting your point across than maybe allowed or chaotic dinner or during cooking or when they have other things on their mind and stuff like that. Yeah. Absolutely, Again, that's kind of the emotional relational currency piece, and what's what's going to speak well and and yeah, giving them the value to have it not be chaotic or interrupted, depending

on the level of importance of the conversation. And this goes I mean we're kind of alluding to this as if we're talking to parents, but this goes for spouses, kids, important people in our lives, anybody, any kind of difficult conversation. There may be people that have watched your debt free journey on Facebook or Instagram or know that you're paying off debt or becoming frugal, and they've seen your transformation

and they will ask you about it. So this and this has happened to me um with friends and family, and and if you're doing this long enough, it will happen to you so we're we're assuming this is like difficult conversations that people don't want to have, But sometimes these are conversations people want to have too, and so

I like this next section talks more about that. Yeah, so if somebody else is approaching you on something, somebody else wants to talk about a specific topic, that might be a touchy subject, and these are some important tips

for how to respond in those situations. So first of all, of course, listen well, and what that means is being able to provide feedback, whether that's a head nod or a reflection back, just even a mirroring of what the person is saying, so you can make sure that you are understanding them, clarifying their questions so that you don't go off on some tangent that is not even related to what they're wanting to talk about, and being able to give them the floor as much as possible and

really not interrupting even if there's something that you disagree with or they're bringing up something that's not true, let them finish and then say your piece. Uh, it can really help the conversation to go smoothly. The other one I like on here is to be aware of your body language, What is your body communicating to the person, and do you want that communication to be happening. If you want an eye roll, fine, let let the eyes roll.

But if you're like, oh, no, I actually I don't want them to fully know all of my thoughts, then be aware of that because our bodies can say so much. A really good counseling tip on this one is to mirror whatever the other person's body is doing. So if the other person is crossing your legs, cross your legs, if they're leaning in, lean in, if they're if they're not,

they're more in a more relaxed position, mirror that. That can really help to communicate subconsciously that you're kind of you're listening, you're you're on the same page as them. Doesn't necessarily mean that you're agreeing, but it does something subconsciously to us. When we're able to kind of mirror body language, that is phenomenal in the verbal conversation that's happening.

I never knew that. That's a great, great concept. You're welcome. Also, something else that I like on this list is acknowledging the person. Holy moly, And so if I can tease this apart a bit. What that means is acknowledge the person that's in front of you, the human that's in front of you, rather than necessarily the topic, particularly if

it's something that has points of disagreement or difficulty. Being able to add value to the person that's in front of you in whatever way that means, whether that's a simple compliment or something that you've noticed about the person, or affirming them, or acknowledging the emotions that they're expressing. That doesn't mean that you have to give up your position, but being able to acknowledge the person can bear so much weight in again easing a potential uh fiery situation. Yes, yes,

money is such a fragile topic. It can be very charged with emotions and guilt and shame and despair and depression, anxiety. There can be a lot of darkness. Even if somebody on the surface is very happy and light and joking about it, there can still be a lot of of darkness, uh, in somebody, So be aware of that when you're talking to them and knowing even if they seem okay, always just assume that it's a sensitive subject, and I think you will be able to help the person that you're

talking to more by approaching it that way. And holy moly, avoid lecturing. If you are hearing yourself talk for a long period of time, it's probably time to kind of just like reel it in too much. Yeah, most people are not asking for a lecture, so be aware of that. Don't do it. Just don't, just just don't. Yeah. I like these last four points at the end of the article. So the first one is avoid lecturing. Second is manage

your own emotions. So if you are angry, worried, or stress like, calm yourself down first and and then go uh. The third one is APOLOGI eyes and mean it. So if for some reason you've played a part in um, this person's like financial struggle or worry or whatever. Uh, then an apologize and mean it um. And then the

last one is respect their privacy. Money is super private. UM. So if they don't want to open up to you about stuff like that, Um, you can still have these conversations without injecting yourself in their in their private matters. And then you learn a boundary and you can if this is somebody who you you do need to have these conversations. Let's say it's a spouse, but they still really don't want to go there. Then you learn a boundary for them, and you know, maybe a lighter topic

that you can explore next time. So, okay, that one was too far. They're not ready for that conversation. But how do they feel about talking about just groceries maybe, or just clothing next time or whatever the cases? Kind of pick a less contiversial topic and and begin to then work more towards the conversation that you need to have. Mm hmm. And you know what else we should work more towards the best time of the week. It's time for the bill of the week. That's right, it's time

for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage. Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. That bill Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton, this is the bill of the week, high ladies, So I have a double bill of the week for you, or like a bill that led to Mr Bill which led to no bill at all. So my beautiful ten year old car is coming up

on a lovely major maintenance. It's a kind that if I don't do it, my whope, car won't blew up the timing belt, but if I do do it, it will cost me eleven dollars and I decided I didn't want to pay that. So after a lot of research and a lot of phone calls, I found that my Vocal Community College has an automotive program and they will prepare my cars more three And you'll never guess what this characters saying is. Wait, yes you can be scause his name is Bill and he is awesome and funny.

They're replacing my time belts for free. It helped me a lot about car maintenance. The I y car maintenance, so super great. Now I have a cool Jill Bill and no car Bill. All right, have a great week, ladies. That awesome. I that you were just overjoyed when all of this happened. And then to realize that you can report this amazing experience with your double Bill. I'm so

excited to meet Bills these days. But how amazing. We talked about this in a previous Bill like somebody going to vocational school for something else, but oh my goodness, for for repairs of your vehicle, and then for Bill to be the instructor. It's just like amazing on top of amazing, on top of amazing. Oh my gosh, thank you so much, Kelly. That was a fantastic bill. It combined our two favorite bills, a bill that you didn't

have to pay and a guy named Bill. And like, I can't think of a better bill than a double bill like that. Unless you have one for us anybody else out there, I'd love to hear it. Good Segway, leave us a bill by visiting Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash bill. We are so excited for all that you guys are experiencing in your lives. Share it with us, please, yes, yes, and now it's time for the goodness. Jill knows how

that makes me feel. And it doesn't sound any better in a whisper, Yeah, especially because I can whisper in a deep voice. You can perfect, you can, Yeah, I did it. So this lightning round, we are talking about how we talk about money with our families. We're going to just give you a little inside peek to how we personally deal with that. We're not going to talk about children because Jill don't have no kids, Kai doesn't understand the concert money yet, but we will talk about

our spouses and our families. Yeah, so I'll start me and my spouse Eric, you know him. Well, let's see, I do our budget weekly and I just kind of fell into that role. But we do talk about it. We like how that, how that has landed. So as I do what did I say, bi weekly, not weekly every other week, two times a month when we get paid, that's when I do our budget. And as things come up within that process, I bring them up to Eric. I'm not saying it's the best way to do it.

It works for us for now. I hear about these people who do these like monthly sit down meetings, and sometimes I'll tell him we need to have a business meeting and he hates how that sounds, but I forced him to do it anyhow, and that's how we talk about it. I think ultimately he's just grateful that I am staying on top of most of it. That it helps for him to know, all right, I've done the bulk of it. I'm bringing solutions to the table, but I want his input. I'm curious about his opinion, and

he is good at giving that to me. He's also really good at really procrastinating the conversation and delaying it by like cracking tons of jokes where I eventually just have to be like okay, no, like we're we're honestly talking about this, Like what what do you think I can see that. I can see that happening. Yeah, because when I use the word business meeting or like homework, it sets him off like an eight year old boy

that that still lives inside of him. But but we get there and that's not He's not um ignorant to finances and there's different roles that he takes on also. But I do think the fact that I am curious about his opinion, I desire that I want to make a big, important decisions together. Um. I think that speaks value to him. I don't know. He can insert his voice here as he edits if that's true. And someday we do have to have Eric and Travis on the podcast. I know that's going to do. UM. So that's how

we approach it at this point. It works for us in this season. UM. I'll keep you posted if we end up doing you know, our monthly meetings. But so

far it works as is. How about you, Jen? So, UM, I will say when we got married, we did know how much debt we were in and we did have we did want to pay it off, but that initially was not the case because I had um fifty thousand dollars of just student loan debt plus a car bill, and I made about thirty five thousand dollars um and he was unemployed and had about twenty four thousand dollars, so he had half as much less than half of the debt I had, and he was really adamant about

wanting to pay it off, and I was really scared about what that would mean for my life if we chose to do that, and because I was so excited to be I, you know, thought I was in the best point of my life in my twenties, so I really didn't want to ruin that by trying to be financially smart. And we talked about this in our like finding Your Why episode, but it really took finding my why, like my bigger why for life. And Travis was a

pro at bringing that up. He didn't bring up numbers because he's not like a numbers guy, but he's definitely of feelings and you know, speak to your soul kind of person, and he made me realize I could do the things that I wanted to do in my life if we were debt free, So not being debt free for the sake of not having debt, but doing it for UM to better our lives and to have have tangible plan for what I wanted to do with my life. So that was a really great way that Travis has

talked to me about finances. And now that I have taken it to the extreme, like I do with everything and write about personal finance for a living, I do most of the budgeting and the nerdy, the number stuff. So I plan our our mortgage like pre payments or like extra payments for that UM, and our retirement investing and the index funds that we choose, the hs A investments, all those the percentages we put towards all that, and then I just come to him and be like, hey,

this is what we're doing, and he's like cool. I make the budgets and show him and he's like cool.

So that's kind of how we do things now. Yeah, And I think Dave Ramsey, I mean, it sounds like how we approach it and the rules is very similar between you and I, Jen, and I will say that Dave Ramsey was helpful for this in our early years of marriage in identifying, Hey, there's probably one of you who's a bit more apt to be the budget person, like the one with the pencil and putting things on paper. That's not to say I mean I'm not type A, but I do enjoy this a bit more than Eric does.

So I am happy for that to fall to me. But the other person, maybe more the the spender of the couple, must still have a role in that process. So inviting in not doing this thing solo, hearing their perspective and allowing them to have an eraser, right like the figurative eraser, to make changes if needed, or to disagree, and to negotiate on what it looks like. That just because you've put in some of the legwork of figuring it out doesn't mean that it can't be shifted depending

on the needs of the other person. So I think that's the big guess part of this that sure, divide and conquer have different roles, but bring each other into that process and give some power and authority into each of these places and negotiate with one another. Yes, definitely. So how about the rest of your family, Jill, how you talk to them? Yeah? So this is UM. I'm going to try and make this as short and sweet as possible. My family, my parents at least, are relatively

private about their finances and always have them. I think growing up this is something that they wanted to shield us from. Um. Things were not always super easy for my parents financially. They provided us with a fantastic life that I'm very grateful for. But um, I think in a lot of ways, they wanted us to be kids, and they wanted to carry the weight of financial responsibility

and worry and concern. They didn't want us to hold those concerns, which I respect a lot of that of what they chose in their like parenting of young children. I do think some of that has carried over now even as we are adult children now where there is privacy, they don't want us to have those degrees of concern

um for them or maybe even involvement. So I want to respect that and and different levels of privacy that people have with their finances and recognize what my role is as an adult child, that there might be other people who would speak into that with my parents or dialogue with them about that. You know, I know that they've spoken with financial advisors and they've got other people in their lives, um and their own wisdom, so this

is not something that I cross into too often. I will say that the podcast has opened more doors for discussion. I would say that the Cameron Huddleston podcast episode that we did absolutely open the door to conversation with my mom that is still evolving. And I think that's an important thing to note about this, that we may open a door or a window to a conversation, but that doesn't mean the whole conversation happens. It is kind of even a journey. So the sooner you can start that journey,

the better. Um. So I would imagine that there are more conversations to be had, particularly regarding how my parents financial situation might impact me. The things that I'm not impacted by where they don't want to share, that's fine, but as we talk about long term life insurance or planning in in emergencies or power of attorney, Yeah, the

door has been opened there. And I think podcasts, books read coming from a place of concern seeing these things happen between my mom and her mom and the things that she's walking through. You know, just organic life circumstances have opened the door for appropriate conversation. So that's kind of where I'm at. Yeah, I think that's where most people will be at. Honestly, I think my story is

definitely an outlier. Um my mom would not talk to me about her finances and uh was eventually sent to foreclosure and kicked out of her house, all within me finding out, all within like a few months of us talking about things. And so she's doing a lot better. And I think the lesson that I could share would not be how to have conversations with parents, because I think that I did those things. I think I did

that really wrong. I think I should have had more of the mindset that I'm opening a door and to not force or push or judge. Um. So I hear a lot of these suggestions in my and in my head I'm saying yes, yes, yes, because um, I think I pushed my mom away by pushing too hard, and she was seeing us pay off our debt and make these wise decisions, and I wanted the best for her, but my words didn't convey that, and and I regret that. And it's not to say that if I had had

better words that she would have opened up. There's nothing that could have changed um the end result of what happened, but I could have felt better about it if I had been better at the conversations. And even now to this day, it's been several years, I still catch myself being judgmental um and being stuck in the past with her past decisions and letting that influence how I speak

to her today. So also not letting the past judge your present conversations is another thing out which we're not perfect at this and we don't know what we don't know, and we're all in our own journey, So we're going to bring our own perspectives to the table so we can have grace on ourselves and absolutely on other people. But I think what you're saying there, Jen, is even am I the right person to have this conversation? That I may see something? But is it my role my responsibility?

Do I have the emotional relational currency with this person to have this conversation? Is it better to wait? Is it better for somebody else to have this conversation? Like, Yeah, what's my motive in it? What's my purpose? What am I hoping to accomplish? Um? And does this conversation really

need to happen. So yeah, So we hope that helps you have conversations with your family this holiday season and beyond and make the year or you are having those healthy conversations with people about money and breaking the stigma of about money talk. We think money should be talked about um way more openly than it is and we and we hope that you will set a precedent for having those positive money conversations. Boom. More ways to set good precedents with finances is through our book club. So

we are reading Jen's book, So excited about this. Pay off your debt for good for book club this month, so support your own you guys, get checked out this book. Thank you so And if you've listened to this far and you have not turned off the podcast because we say the same thing at the outro every week, I'm going to reward you with a special treat. And we've never done this before, we will never do this again.

If you are listening to this podcast the day it comes out a December nineteen, if you leave a review for the podcast on iTunes or Stitcher, screenshot the review and send it to Frugal Friends Podcast at gmail dot com. Every single review we get through the end of next week, so until the next episode comes out, We'll get a free copy of the audio book version of my new book every single review. So if you do this, you will get a free audio book every single review that

gets submitted an emailed. So that is the key submitted and emailed to us this week. Do the review and then email it and you got yourself free audio version. More gen in your ears? Who doesn't want more more of me? Because I narrated the book. So if you like the way I sound, leave a review. Awesome And here's an example of a review. This one comes from Jordan's and he or she says, awesome, relatable and informative podcast. I found this podcast a few months ago and immediately

loved it. Jen and Jill are extremely relatable and you feel like you're one of their friends and their conversations. They give great advice and have great stories. I listen to all the episodes and have started again from the beginning. This podcast is a must listen to anyone interested in personal finance. Thank you Jen and Jill for all you share than Jordan's that's amazing. Sweet you've started over. I've only done that with the office episodes they're like actually

in Parks and Rec. I don't know the only ones that I friends like watch over against Wow, in my mind, you've just told me that I'm on par with the Office and Parks and Rex. So thank you for that. M bless you, bless you. So if you have love for the podcast and you want to leave a helpful review, please do that. Or if you love audio books, please leave a helpful review and you can get one until next week. Happy Viewing Herugal Friends is produced, edited and

mixed by Eric Syria. Who yep, what're you doing for Christmas? Oh gosh, I don't know. Well, I'm probably home in my trailer and I don't know. Hopefully we're not giving many gifts. That's yet to be determined as of one this is being recorded. Um, I will say we have one tradition that we do love it. Um we did it our very first year of marriage. So now we will actually do this tradition more times than we have

celebrated our anniversary. Anyhow, the eighth year, we have a get together with our friends Kevin and Chelsea on Christmas Eve Eve, so December we get together. We eat all the food, all the junk, food. It's different every year, but it's always just like amazing trash food and we have a sleepover and then we go to the diner down the road for breakfast on Christmas Eve. Yeah, they just had twins this year, so now they've got three kids, and I'm like, this better not interrupt Christmas Eve eve

and they're like it won't. It definitely won't. Nothing interrupts Christmas Eve Eve. The twins will be three months by then. Gosh, that's doable. Yeah, they're fine, they're like tiny adults. What are you doing? Um, So it's gonna be Kai's first Christmas. Um, he's uh, will be seven months old on Christmas and he loves to grab things, so maybe he'll unwrap a gift or two. I don't think we're getting him anything.

I haven't gotten him anything yet, Grandma about babies, you don't have to for like Grandma, Yeah, um, I think my Christmas tradition will to not not be getting my kids anything for Christmas and just letting Grandma's do It's they won't know any different. Nope, they wouldn't have any expectations. Just give him a good cookie and he'll love you. Give me a good cookie. That's it, that's it, and that's all merry, merry Christmas.