Episode three seventy four, How to Change your Money Mindset with Paco Deli On.
Welcome to the Brugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, and liver your life. Here your hosts Jen and Jill.
Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen, my name is Jill, and we are sharing with you a fantastic interview today with Paco deli On about, yes, changing your money mindset, but like so much about how we can still stick with our financial goals, still stick with frugality, even through things that we cannot control, things that would normally have us quote unquote falling off the wagon. How do we work through those things and stick with this? And so this is a fantastic interview.
I'm still all riled up because we're recording this now after having talked with Paco, and I think the way that they describe this concept and break it down and give us new insight even on things that you and I Jen have talked about for so long, but giving different ways of thinking about it is so helpful for me. I gotta imagine it's going to be helpful for you
and the listener. So glad you're here. But first, this episode is brought to you by sticker earrings, the nineteen ninety five version, to be exact my childhood obsession, because they were the exact embodiment of cool. You mean, you can have earrings without shoving a needle through your ear Sign me up. And the world of stickers has only gotten more insane. Now you can stick on eyelashes undergarments. There's even stickers that allow you to hang ladders on
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All right, So we in the front letter did a poll for y'all and about talking about what are the money how do you view your money mindset?
Uh?
And a lot of you were not didn't have a great view about it. So I just want to go through and look a little bit into your answers. So most of you said it was decent or that meth there's room for improvement, so you're focus. I think you're focused on the mindset, but not a lot of people
said it was great. So we are going to work off of that and say, like, how can what's the little things that we can do to improve get it from decent to the best, and we know all you people that say the best it's been, thank you for listening to for a go frond so and then if it's met, how do we get it to decent?
And I think even defining some of what those metrics are, how do I even know if my money mindset is stellar or if it's not great? And I think some of that is even going to be covered in this conversation with Paco. And again side note, if you want to be a part of these polls that help inform these podcast episodes, get the front letter for friendspodcast dot com.
Yeah, so some of your some of your responses to the poll was like, it's been tough to pass up all the good after Christmas deals, which is something that's like a deal is so hard to pass up, especially for a frugal person, because it puts that scarcity in there right like it's timely. We need to you know, this is the most money I'll ever say I need to get this deal, which we know logically is wrong,
but we still give into. And then we had another person say I need to be in quote unquote earning mode. So you know, something that happened that whacked my life, and then now I feel like I just have to take every everything it took out my emergency fund, and now I have to do everything to earn money to get it back instead of just realizing like it will come, it will come. But this person got back on the right track four days ago, hopefully.
Listening to Frugal Friend.
Yeah so yeah, so definitely get the front letter because we use your responses to kind of tailor our interviews and our episodes. So if mindset is something you're intoted in listening more of, maybe you said you had like a meh mindset. Episode three thirty seven How to Adopt a Frugal Mindset, and episode two forty four how to Improve your Money Mindset. Those are are going to be all about mindset. But all three, those two and this one all different, all worth listening to. So let's get
into it with Poco. Paco's and I is an author illustrator. Her book is Finance for the People. They're the host of Weird Finance and the founder of the hell Yah Group, a financial firm dedicated to inspiring creatives to engage with their personal and business finances. Also a bookkeeper, she has a bookkeeping agency for creative businesses. So she is a ted X speaker. She's been featured in The New York Times, Blueberg, Time,
and NPR. So we were so excited that she had some time to spend with us today and we hope you enjoy the conversation as much as we did. Let's do it, Paco, Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. We're excited to continue this conversation because we were just on your show and we're literally heading right into this interview. So we've just been like talking for an hour and yeah, we're just like down at coffee just hanging out.
Still, thank you for having me. I feel like I'm a frugal friend now, so I'm really excited to keep chatting.
Yes, welcome, Paco.
That was one of the things we talked about in your episode, which we should probably link to in our show notes so people can hear that conversation because it will be different from this conversation, but through that you learned you were frugal and we're here for it.
Yes, I love it.
It's kind of like when you take an online test or you're like do I have ADHD or something, and then you start to look up the symptoms and you're like, oh, I think you're describing me. That's exactly what it was like. I was like, you know, I like fancy vacations and nice hotel room and quality things, and I like spending money and I like making money. I'm not frugal. And
then we went through the misconceptions. I guess I'm just doing it how I do it, but I am, but I'm still very much you know, I think about where my money goes, how it has a larger impact on the world, and I just try to do the right thing.
That's that's the best diagnosis. I think if you're gonna web MD that thing coming out with a frugality answer is great.
I would not take any of our other diagnoses seriously, but that one I would take to the bank that you, yeah,
diagnose you with frugal. So we want to talk about an assortment of things today, But I think first I kind of want to start out with you have you talk a lot, like in your work, with not as much about like do this do that, but like getting down to people's like money mindsets and like why they do this and that, So like what what kind of makes up somebody's mindset and gets them to do what they do financially.
So the way that I think about money mindset is it's kind of like having a song stuck in your head. You know, you'll hear a song, You'll hear the hook and you're like, that's a catchy hook, and then you'll be washing the dishes and the song will be playing. You'll be doing the laundry and the song will be playing. You're just like walking down the street and you hear the song. And a lot of our money mindsets are like this song, where it's like, how did that song even get in there?
Right?
We weren't. Oftentimes we're not like seeking it out. We're not like today, I really want to never stop hearing Justin Bieber in my head. It's not something we're seeking out. It just happens. And that's also what happens with our money mindsets. We pick up these songs, these phrases, these sticky things that we believe are true, Like, you know, people like us, people like us don't go on vacation, or people like us can't afford to go on vacation,
or people like us. Maybe you hear a grandparents say something like the people like us. We're just hard working, and hard work is the only way you know to make money in the world. You hear a song from generally your upbringing, sometimes we get it from the media society at large. A really popular one is we should never talk about money. It is ghosh, it is rude,
it is improper. And those songs they get stuck in our head and they just play, and they might not play on repeat all the time, but they play enough. You hear it enough times and you start to believe, Yeah, this is exactly how the world works. This is my place in the world, this is my place in the world of money. This is what I deserve, this is what I don't deserve, this is what I'm capable of,
this is what I'm not capable of. And your behaviors start to reflect that song that's going on and on and on, and while that's not the only thing right your beliefs and your mindset and how you think about money in the world, it's not the only thing that's going to impact your financial reality. It's a big one that you have some control and some agency over, which is why I am clearly so excited about helping people recognize the songs playing in their heads.
I've never heard someone describe it in such a relatable way of like that song that gets suck in your head and sometimes you chose it and sometimes it just comes out of nowhere. Where did that even come from? I can't remember the last time I heard it. But also your whole person perspective on what might shape a money mindset that some of it is going back to what were the common phrases, what was some of the storytelling around money as a kid, whether in observance or
being told to me? And then what are my current experiences that might affirm or deny or what money mindsets have I what songs about money have I picked up along the way. It's such a helpful way to think about it and recognize, oh, what might mind be?
Yeah, there's also like why I like that Noogies because when you hear when you have a song stuck in your head, you're not like, I'm that song, right, If you're you got a Tailor Swift song stuck in your head, you're not like, ah, that's who I am. But with these beliefs, we get really attached to it. So I think looking at it through this analogy allows us to have that one layer of like, oh, it's just playing, it's clouds floating across the sky. It's not who I am.
And therefore, if I can, if I could take that first step and not fully identify and attached to it, okay, then I have a dog in the fight here, or I have a chance. I can I can try to change the song playing. I can kind of change what's happening in my head and therefore then change my reality from outside of my head.
Yeah.
I think what you're describing links so well with what we talk about with curiosity and asking ourselves these questions that that's a really tangible helpful one. Oh yeah, what's what's the song playing in my head? What's on repeat? I'm curious. I don't know if there's an intersection here, maybe you could tie it together. But you also so talk about these circles of control, which it's really cool
to see on your blog and website. It's definitely very similar to some of the things that I've seen in the mental health world. But I'm curious your perspective as it comes to finances, how you've integrated this circle of control with money, mindset and an understanding about personal finance.
I mean, I definitely think that there's a through line with this concept called the circle of control, and is originally talked about by Stephen Covey. I believe he's the creator of it, and he references it in his book Old Book that a lot of people recommend seven habits
of highly effective people. And basically, the circle of control is an exercise or a way for you to look at all the things happening in the world and you can break them down into things you can control and things you can influence, and then things that you're generally concerned about but you cannot change. So we'll start from the top. What are things I'm generally concerned about that I cannot change. Definitely, interest rates. I definitely care if
the stock market is up or down. I definitely care whether or not run in a recession. That's going to affect sentiment, right, But there's nothing I can do to impact those things, right, So I'm concerned about it. But you know, I'm not gonna I'm not going to get too worked up about market going up, market going down. What I am going to do is I'm going to
focus on the things within my control. So the things within my control as it relates to like the market, are going to be am I invested in a way that is appropriate for the amount of risk that I should be taking on, based on my comfort level and based on when I need the money. Right, So I've taken the action and I've done the thing that I can control that makes me feel like, Okay, I'm moving the needle and I have agency, but I'm playing in this game in this market that I don't have control over.
So I think being able to shift your focus right, being able to understand what the real concern is and then where you can take action is going to help people feel a lot less worried about their finances, even though we live in uncertain times, even though there's so much outside of our control. Once you really hone in on what are the things you can control right, how
much you're spending your efforts towards earning more. That could look like making a side hustle, starting a business, learning about negotiation, taking the steps to talking to your boss about getting a raise, getting more education, to see if you can make some lateral moves. All of those things
are within our circle of control. And then one big one which we've been talking about, is your own relationship with money, and again that starts with how you think about money, how you feel about money, and those two things are going to lead into what you think is possible and how you're going to behave based on those ideas of possibility.
I think this is such a helpful concept and one of the things that we've talked about as it relates to what's in our control what's outside of our control, is then how that informs the way that we then spend our emotional, relational, mental currency. That unfortunately, a lot of times that outer circle, the things outside my control, is what gets the most of my time, energy, and attention. And then I feel really depleted because truly there wasn't
anything I could do about it. But instead not that we can't look at them, be informed about them, and have opinions and emotions attached to it, but what's getting the majority of my time, energy and attention, and it's
that innermost circle. The thing that really grinds my gears about this though, is if you look at this chart, which will reference to your blog page, but you've got this outer circle, inner circle, and even smaller circle in the middle all kind of nestled like little Russian nesting dolls. And unfortunately, it's also indicative of how much is.
Actually in our control.
I think, like the visual is helpful in so many ways and then also a little bit discouraging. It's like, yeah, there's so much more outside of my control than what's inside of my control. And that's one of the reasons why most of our attention goes to the outer circle.
But moving to the inner circle, I'm curious for you, Paco, when you're talking about this and you've utilize this yourself, are you encouraging people to actually use it as like a writing prompt, like you could actually draw this out and put the things down that are concerning you. How do you encourage people to utilize this when thinking about money mindset?
You know, I've actually never asked people to draw it. But that's a brilliant idea. So thank you for that brilliant idea.
Oh yeah, yeah, because then Jill loves pencil and paper.
There we go, a tactile person.
That's why she doesn't let me in on the computer thing. Technology.
No, go there, you're like drying sharpie on the screen there. Yeah, I think that would be a really helpful exercise because it will force you to take a moment and say, like crawl into your brain and say, hey, little mushy brain, what are you worried about? Let's put it all on paper and let's honor it, right, Let's recognize that the
world is a scary place. You know, like forgive me for getting weird here, but you know, we're all just like these flesh bags with our skeletons on the inside, and like, you know, there's the cartoon where like a giant piano comes and crushes the cartoon person and they die. Like that's what we're doing, and we're all just walking
around like things are great. I want a latte, but yeah, the world is uncertain, and I think taking a moment to recognize that that we live in a risky place, that we're where world is uncertain, and that our brains really orient towards focusing on the danger, focusing on bad things, because that's what's allowed the human race to survive for thousands of years is being able to look at danger like oh no, sabertooth tiger should probably run away, or hey,
it looks like that water we were all drinking is like pretty dirty. And contaminated. Maybe we should, you know, pay attention to the dangerous things, right, recognizing that that's what our brain does. Honoring it, I think can help us reorient and understand. Okay, some of these things feel really dangerous. They feel in my body like a saber
tooth tiger is about to chomp on my neck. But the reality is I should probably just you know, reality, make sure that my allocation for my four to one K is proper.
Yeah, there's I mean, this is a perfect time to kind of be talking about this because I think when New Year's resolutions kind of break down around this time, and a lot of it is because we're focusing on the goal or the greater like the destination, and we don't set these goals that are action control base, Like I can't control Like my goal is to make you know, one hundred thousand dollars in my business in the year. Ultimately, I don't have control over that, but I have control
over the actions that would result in that. Or I want to pay off this much debt in this year. Ultimately I can't control if maybe I have a health scare, or maybe I lose my job, or all these things are there are so many things that can cause us to want to opt out completely because they're out of our control. But when we're focusing even in those seasons on the things that are in our control and honoring the season, like you said, like knowing that you will
have control over different things in different seasons. When we do that, I think it really is a path defining, like our radical middle in pursuing like financial goals and
pursuing frugality. So I love that. I also it kept things thinking like the song, the song thing just like stuck with me with money mindsets, and I'm realizing, like I'm seeing all these tiktoks that say that are people realizing the songs they listened to when they were teenagers, finally realizing what the actual lyrics are and realizing what
they mean. And I was like, it's the same, Like when we grow up and we experience all these things and we start to learn about money and frugality and all these things, and we realize like, oh my gosh, that's what they were saying, that's why they were saying it. Uh, it's the same TikTok, It's the same video.
I remember a friend trying a friend's mom trying to tell me what ignition was.
About that song when you were when.
I was, cause I loved it in middle school. I love ignition.
I just thought we were talking about driving in cars and the mom was like, do you know what that's about? Blah blah blah, and I'm like, you nasty, though, that is not what this is about. She even tried to open my eyes to it. I wasn't having it. And good thing, I'm living in my own naive era over there.
How do you feel about the song?
Oh?
No, Like she's so right?
How did I How did I see it another way? Hey?
Now I just love it even more.
It's not repeat. It's maybe a song that repeat.
So pago when things are out of our control. And I would love like more examples too, of like influence versus concern, but like when things are in those categories, like what's the first thing we can do to I know in your book you like say like what can you do to get a grip? But like also maybe like what do you just do to maybe decipher them? You know, what's you like your best advice for dealing with those things?
I think understanding what what you can do that will move the needle the most, right, Like a lot of a lot of entrepreneurs talk about this Peretto principle right, where the Paretto principle states that you know eighty percent of your outcomes are going to be a result of twenty percent of your efforts, and so if you think about what you can do like hower ways you can leverage your energy to have the most impact.
Right.
I'm a self identified lazy person, which my friends hate when I say that, because externally I have a lot of output, right, like podcasting and newsletters and running a company and doing all this stuff, but being an entrepreneur, but all of that is in service of being lazy.
Right.
The other side of that coin is like I'm energy efficient, right, or I'm frugal with my time resource and my energy resource. And so that's how I look at what are the things I'm going to invest my energy into that I can impact?
Right.
We can spend so much time spinning our wheels. I could just sit here and be worried. Oh no, A lot of people are talking about twenty twenty four. They're worried about the economy, whether or not we're going to have a soft landing. I'm worried about the residual impacts of the hollywo strike here in LA. I'm worried about why is it so expensive to live in this city? And it keeps getting worse? Right, I can spin my wheels and tucker myself out on a daily basis being
really focused on that. But what I encourage people to do, what I urge them to do is look at the ways that they can actually have an impact on the things that they're very concerned about. And then where do you have leverage?
Right?
And so I also think, you know, I hate being such a fangirl of entrepreneurship because I know it's not right for everyone, but to me, that's where I also see where leverage is the greatest right, because then I'm able to stay within my zone of genius. I figure out what am I really great at, What does the world want from me? Where can I add the most value?
And once I figure out those pieces, then I know for sure that if I'm giving the most value, I'll be getting the most value in return, which is income and a paycheck. So thinking about leverage, thinking about the Peretto principle, thinking about how you can put in your
energy and kind of compound it and multiply it. I think that's going to be like the most sustainable way to manage our finances rather than spinning our wheels with everything the media is putting upon us, because more eyeballs and more scared and bad feelings equals more attention, which
equals more profit. You know, being even critical of some of the messages that we're getting outside and how that like impacts our feelings and what we're thinking about and how we behave I think is also another you know, way to be that can have a good impact, have a positive impact on your finances.
As you're talking, it's reminding me of or bringing to light that a lot of times when we are going through this process of understanding our mindset around money and what's within my control and really embracing that, it is leading a lot of our listeners to that side hustle side business. What can I do to increase my earnings in a way that feels really congruent with me and
connects with my passions? And I know you were saying that this is an area that you're definitely diving into more and more for creatives people starting their own businesses, what do you want to share with us, whether it be about money mindset as a person who's starting a business or creative who might feel like I don't understand money really, and that's one of my hang ups for even starting my own thing, because that feels like a
business mind that I don't necessarily have. What are you How are you helping people who are kind of at that cusp once they're beginning to shift money mindset and wanting this thing.
I think the thing that I'm the biggest champion of when it comes to creative professionals, freelancers, people who are flirting with self employment, the thing I want them to realize, and really the thing I want everybody to realize is I understand that the world of money is scary. Right before people like Jen and Jill and me had platforms and you know, we're out here screaming at the top of our lungs that the world is for you. Right
the generation before us, that wasn't the messaging. The messaging was the world of money is for a certain amount of people and for everybody else, even women, get out here. Not for you, it's for you, and there's so many
different people who can help you understand. So many different facets of the world of finance, and I think the very first thing that you need to understand is this is for you, and it's you can learn everything that you need to learn about, you know, managing your income, how to save for taxes, what are the first few steps when it comes to going off your own and how do you know set up your bank accounts. All of that is out there and I just need you to hear this that it's for you.
That's something that I need to hear too, because we talked about in your podcast Pocoh. You know, you pointed out very succinctly, Oh, Jen's got this kind of like brass tacks, get down to the research.
And I'm a little bit more of this.
Like feeling thinking, embracing personhood and money. And that's one of the things that I think has made this podcast, that brought it to where it is. It's one of the reasons we're friends and enjoy talking about this together. But I would definitely fall into that category of I'd love to do my own thing, but finances. Thankfully, I found a partner who's helpful in that. But it's good to know now I can also say one hundred percent agreed with what you're describing that it doesn't have to
be that complicated. It has been this kind of gait, kept lots of acronyms attached to it, complicated, complex thing. But we can break it down into a more simplified form and it doesn't have to be the barrier to doing the thing that you really love that you're feeling inspired to do that when you're identifying, oh, here's my money, mindset is here's the things within my control. I want to go for it, you can.
Yeah.
It's the same way that you guys approach helping people with reality.
Right.
It's not let's change nineteen million things on the first day, because that's a recipe for failure. It's all about you know, understanding what direction you want to go towards and then figuring out how you're going to take those steps, and you know who's going to help you on your on your hero's journey.
Do you want to know what direction I want to go in?
Yeah, that is a essential part of the Heroes.
It's not nineteen steps. It's one one thing.
First step to get a grip always the direction we're settle.
The bill of the weed.
That's right, it's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is Williams. Maybe you've paid off your mortgage, maybe your car died, and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Bus bills, Buffalo bills, Bill clon, this is the.
Bill of the week, Paco.
Every week we yell at our guests to invite them to share their bill for the week, and we would love to hear yours.
So my bill of the week stands at a staggering six seven. He's an elderly gentleman and he has been a lifelong Clippers fan, which is what a Los Angeles Clippers have been up until very recently just garbage. So to be a Clippers fan when nobody was a Clippers fan showed sports.
I don't know that is what is that?
Sports?
Basketball?
See?
That's how bad the Clippers are.
They were.
They were last in the league for like a whole generation. Bill is I was introduced to Bill through his name is Bill. Of course his name is Bill because it's Bill of the week.
I know, I know, I was hoping that.
I just thought that would be a little bit more like climactic when you were like, oh, sorry, I announced it.
Okay.
First thing she was like, my Bill stands at what?
Okay?
It was?
It was there, Okay, okay, I'm here for it. I just heard it different, okay, Okay.
I met this Bill through my partner. She runs an interior design firm, and so she has a lot of different builders and contractors and furniture makers in her life. And Bill is a sweet handyman. And I love Bill because he will help me put up these lovely shelves and he'll help us paint and he's just the sweetest Bill. He's Bill of the week. That Bill, Thank you Bill.
Oh Bill, Bill.
Yes, I love a Bill that will build a bookshelf. H oh.
I never realized how close build is to Bill.
Yeah.
How many puns we could We've been missing out on all this time.
A lot? Whoa six foot seven? That's my favorite thing about Bill.
You missed?
No, well, I wrote that down six and seven, elderly man clippers fan.
I'm here for it all.
Oh my gosh, that is fantastic. We are always here for an actual Bill uppercase, and I'm so glad you you brought one. I hope that maybe you will tell Bill about this and that he has been immortalized in the world of podcasting.
I don't.
I don't think I know any bills, but it's it thrills me when I meet other people who thrill of the bill, who know bills, and he sounds like a good one. You know what, I've never heard about a bad person named Bill. They're always amazing solid air.
People have opinions on that stage.
Well, it's just my experience.
If you all listening have a bill, whether they they're great, you think that they're so lovely, or if you want to prove me wrong, you want to debunk this notion that all bills are great you why not?
Why not the bill you don't like? As long as it's a lower.
Case listen, it's half my podcast too for overenspodcast dot com, slash bill, whatever bill you want to talk about.
I like the controversy here.
I like it.
We can't agree on everything all the time. It would be inauthentic.
And now it's time for the lightning round.
Help us renovate that intro. One day.
We have more and more unhinged the further along we get in the podcast, but we are glad that you're here. Paco, We're glad.
What she's saying is, we're glad you haven't left yet. So for our Lightning Round today, for our vulnerability Round, we'd like all to share what's the weirdest I would say, what's the weirdest money advice You've ever been told? You host a podcast called Weird Finance. We all talk about weird money stuff. We're all weirdos. So like, what's the weirdest money advice somebody has told you?
Well, you I studied finance and economics and I've been in financial services my whole career. So there's not a lot of people who are like coming at me with, like, you know, bad advice. But I'm sure, I'm sure there's some bad advice out there.
Not even bad, maybe true, but weird, okay, weird, weird.
I would say, some of the weird.
Bad, Paco, my bad, bad.
Weird advice. Some of the weird advice I've gotten actually is from the messaging I got from my folks growing up, and kind of the the working class messaging that I got, which I thought was weird, was like, uh, just get
a secure job and everything will be okay. And it's just that's weird in the context of like things are really uncertain one and two I've learned that that's that's like a surefire away to kind of stay small, or it's a sure fire away to not find ways that you can expand your income if you just give all your time to this sure thing. I feel like, oh, I feel like the opportunity cost is really great, And
I think that's weird advice. The other weird advice that I that I've gotten actually quite a few times is like using insurance for investment purposes, So using insurance as a tool for gain as opposed to use, you know, as opposed to what it's actually for, which is to protect you against losses. And sure, there's like a sliver of society where it's appropriate to try to use insurance for gain because you've maxed out all these other things and you just have a ton of money, so you know,
we'll do it. But the insurance for gain is weird advice, and I would love to shine a bright light on it.
M h, that was mine, you actually took mine.
But say more?
Is I.
Just say more for multiple reasons.
Say I mean that people are saying you should use like whole life insurance that gains four percent year over year, that it's a better safer I mean, it's probably safer, but it's a better investment than the stock market. People will say that.
This is reminding me that, Oh man, there's how much to say about people that probably do listen to this podcast. This isn't mine. I've got a different one, but I have heard I'll say it this way. I have heard of businesses who going through lawsuits have had like it has been ruled in the legal process that the one person's life insurance policy would now go to this person who was suing them. So now when that person passes, the family is not going to the life insurance policy.
The person who sued them is going to get the life insurance policy. And maybe some of that backs up to putting that life insurance policy on the line in the past. I don't know how that in any way can be legal. It is what happened. That's weird and wild to me and wrong. Weird and wrong, I think in my in my estimation, Yeah, it's kind of dark, very.
Really the vulnerability rounds really here. I'd like to lighten the mood. I had a second I had to back up okay, And for me, the weirdest maybe not find money advice, but the weirdest concept in money is compound interest. Because in my brain, if I'm investing every month when I am in time halfway to retirement, and if I'm like planning to invest a million dollars, right, i should be at the halfway mark at half a million, but
I'm not. I'm at like three hundred or something. And once i get like three quarters the way there, I'm halfway there. And then like three years later I met a million. Like compound interest is fantastic, and then it just like doubles every ten years and it's beautiful. And I it's so weird and I love it.
I love it.
It's but it's so weird. That makes sense.
Math is weird.
Math is weird.
Yeah, it's glorious, And yeah, I don't think our brains can understand it because it's not just like arithmetic, right, It's it's geometric.
In a way.
Yeah, I love it.
I mean, gosh, this is becoming the majority of the podcast at this point, but I mean I'm here for it. There's a lot of weird stuff happening. I don't know if this is advice. You know how when people say what they do with their money, but and it is kind of like, look at me, how I've hacked it, and so it is kind of like you should be doing it if you even had half a brain and could figure out how I implement this, like that kind of thing. I know plenty of those people. It doesn't
even matter that I'm in personal finance. People just spout off. I was in an interaction. Really it wasn't quite in exchange. It was more this was happening to me and coming at me. But this person was saying wild things about their taxes and they are on the wealthier side, and just all that they're doing. I mean, there's a lot of tax evasion happening. But also some of the advice that's being given is like just bye bye bye bye bye. With the business counted as a business expense, you can
write it off. And in my mind, I'm like, yeah, but that only to a certain point, and you are still spending money. But they're just getting boats and jet skis and houses and more and more.
So, thankfully, I know enough.
People in that category that even if they did listen to this podcast, which they're not, they it may or may not be about them, because I know a lot of people like this.
I just and I might need to take a look at my community.
I can't imagine somebody who's like frantically spending for tax deduction reasons being like frugal friends. That's for me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Two, the phrase that comes to mind is letting the tax tail wag the dog, right, like when you, yeah, when you're using taxes as an excuse.
Right.
And then the other thing it makes me think about is have you guys seen this Instagram account called Ballerbusters? Okay, sounds weird and dirty now out of context, but okay, So what they do is they call out like online scammers like the guy who's like by ten airban bees and my course and I'll show you how, and people who are like posing in front of lambos and trying
to like sell their drop shipping course. You know, you know, you know the type online scammers who flaunt their wealth and try to get people to buy their course or buy their coaching or whatever. And they just ruthlessly go in and so hearing Jill talk about like, uh, I'm buying the boat and I'm writing it off, they call out a lot of those guys who are like, I bought a jet and here's how I'm saving money because I bought a jet and I love that.
Yeah, that account.
That's I mean, Jill can't use that asn't like write off anymore. She's gonna buy us a frugal friends jet.
I mean, someday you could.
But I fear for these people who will inevitably one day be audited. But this is helpful to bring us full circle. Pack out Instagram Accounts like that I think are really important and beneficial for our money mindset because we can be on social media and come up with these money songs, money narratives that we begin to believe about how other people are doing their business, living their lives. We just don't have the secret code, the secret sauce.
We're not understanding things accurately, and it can be so inhibitive and such a barrier to us. And then we can find these other accounts that are debunking, demystifying, helping us to see the real, authentic, genuine side of this.
And so I am.
Grateful for resources like that, So thank you for sharing. I just follow them just of course it is helpful to bring a tethering, because sometimes it can seem like these people are just out there doing extreme things that they want to say you can do too, and we've got to tether it because otherwise people are just feeling so discouraged.
Totally. Yeah, and you know what, I just watched a comedy special. I don't remember the comedian is, so forgive me for not reference them. But the whole concept was like, as adults, so many of us are still doing the thing where we're saying, look at me, mom, mom, look
what I can do. And as you're you know, as I'm thinking about the Ballerbuster account and all the like flexing online, I think it is important to think that, yeah, why are these people doing this, and maybe deep down inside they're just saying, look at me, mom, look what I did.
Yes, I love that. I love that reframe. There we're going with that.
Goodness, Paca, You've got so so much encouragement, wisdom, approachability, personal finance understanding.
Where can people get more from you?
Well, you can listen to my podcast Weird Finance. Wherever you listen to this podcast, and if you'd like to stay in touch on the internet, the best way is to sign up for my email newsletter. You can just go to the helligroup dot com and sign on up and we'll be pen pals.
Amazing. I love pen pals. Thank you, Paca. So this has been a fantastic morning of conversation, so fun and so glad we got to wrap it up by yelling at you and finding out your deep money weird secrets.
I love every moment of it, yelling included, and I look forward to being yelled at again. So thank you.
Too, amazing, Thanks Baco, of course.
Oh yeah, yeah, it's so nice when interviews are just really I forget that the MIC's in front of me and we're just chatting it up and sharing like mindedness. And that's the beautiful thing of it that our concepts, the way we look at money and approach finances and mindset around money is so congruent.
And yet she brought.
Such a helpful new way of defining looking at it.
I love the song.
Way of understanding what even is a money mindset? How can we know what our money mindsets are? I personally have a lot of takeaways and ponderings from this, So I'm thrilled.
Yeah, Now I love Paco really emphasizes the things that are outside of our control that do impact how we think about and manage our money. So much of the advice out there does tell you to ignore the things out of your control. But we know that managing money is emotional and it's personal first, and so we have to take into consideration these things that are scary, these things that are stressful, these things that are unknown, and how they impact the decisions we make, how it impacts
how we think about money. And so the idea of those circles of control, the things that are immediately in my control, which are the actions that I do, the things that are I have influence over but no control, and the things I have no control or influence over or barely any but I am concerned about, like thinking about things that happened to you and identifying writing them down, what area of control is it in, and what can
I be focusing on. What's the next right thing that I can do that I have control over?
Yeah?
Yeah, So thank you so much for listening. Many of you know we have the friend letter and we love getting your replies. If you ever get a friend letter that was that you liked, please hit reply and just say yay loved it or Boo did not like it, because that helps us figure out what you want more of. And so this was a sweet message we got from Wendy Avid listener, reader and supporter. She said, I don't even know if you guys see these responses. We do, but if you do, I want you both to know
how wonderful this email is. All your emails are wonderful, but this you shared the most important message and scinctly told us how to do it. I've read whole books on boundaries that didn't get to the point like this email. Thank you so very much. You do so much good, not just for our bank accounts, but for our mental and emotional health. Blessings to you both.
Amazing Wendy, when you sent this, it really was so so encouraging because we're not a massive business over here. It really is Jen and I seeing and reading these emails and responding. So that was so encouraging and helps us to know what's resonating, what to do more of, what to do less of. So banks, Wendy, and thank you all for listening, forgetting the newsletter, for just engaging, and for the work you're doing for yourselves. It's benefiting you, it's benefiting the.
Rest of us.
Yes, thank you so much for listening. If you want freebies, saving tips, values based spending hacks, succinct explanations on how to build boundaries, then head to Frugal Friends podcast dot com get the friend letter and all the goodies. And if you're already getting the friend letter and you know of somebody who could use more friend lettering in their life, use your referral link at the bottom of your email and share it.
See you next time.
Gorugle Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.
Jill I.
When you just so many Googles. When we were exiting out of your Googles this morning and you were googling what is a sticker or no, things that are stickers, things that are stickers, I didn't know where or why. I didn't know where it was going.
Yeah, because I remembered earring stickers. And then I was thinking, man, there are so many things that you can stick on you, like eyelashes, like undergarments. And then it got me thinking, there's got to be other types of stickers I'm not thinking of. There weren't really You've got your command, You've got your command strips which are wild. You can hang so much on that. But something else I want to talk about, Jen is that there's been a lot of
rain lately around here. It's been raining a lot here in Saint Petersburg. I know all of you listening think that Saint Petersburg is just absolute pure paradise, and it is most of the time, but then it also rains. And speaking of getting songs stuck in your head, this made me think of it, but I saved it for the post show, the post post show, for our true listeners. It's been raining, and I've been getting this song stuck in my head because I see the rain and then
music starts playing in my head. Every time it rains. It rains, and He's from heaven. But instead that's the song, that's the one right now currently, That's what happens in my head. I will come up with songs I haven't heard in forever. I don't even know where that came from.
Man, I was hoping you'd say, Rihanna.
That would be nice.
But here's what's salacious about that is I for a while thought that they were saying panties from heaven. It sounds exactly like that. So now that's what I sang, and it's fun.
That sounds more like you. Actually, that makes more sense in my head. I was like Jill singing Pennies from Heaven.
Try to listen to that song though, and not hear panties from heaven.
Every time it rains, it rains, panties from heaven. Who knows? Did I say panties or pennies? Who knows?
You for sure said panty?
No, I don't know. You don't know what my intention was. So it's one of those like is the dressed gray or is it pink?
Like?
Did I say panty panty? Or did I say penny? Who knows? Who knows? Who knows?
We'll never know,