How Maggie Paid Off Her Mortgage As A Divorced Single Mom | Friends On Fire

from Friends on Fire podcast. They aren't really on fire, don't don't be alarmed, right, Yeah, they are friends who talk about personal finance and fire and financial independence, retiring, you know, you know it, those things. So Maggie actually paid off her mortgage after divorce as a single mom, and she's just a really fun, down to earth person. And I think any of our single mom listeners out there will be able to relate. I mean, even if you're not a single mom. But I hope that you

will find inspiration from Maggie's story today. But first, our sponsors National Grammar Day. You know it, We're all excited. Today is the one day a year when it's acceptable to correct your friends and family on their misuse of it's and it's if you're a grammar nerd. We'd love for you to check out our free e book Modern Frugal Living and tell us all about our grammatical errors because we didn't pay for editing. You'll also learn over

two hundred ways to save money. Had to Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash e book to get yours again. That's Frugal Friends Podcast dot com slash e book. But you can only correct us on National Grammar Day, Yeah only today. This episode is also brought to you by the Things we Do for Toddlers. Tomorrow, I'll be taking time out of my weekend to pay money to take a train ride on a very useful engine. If you know. You know, and it saddens me to say that I

am excited about it. It's easy to get excited about all the weird things we do for toddlers, but we have to prioritize what we do because they will not remember any of this. And you're excited now, but all you'll be left with is a toy that will end up on Facebook Marketplace or a picture that gets lost on your phone. So the things we do for toddler's intentionally choose them, or you may lose all the space

in your house and all your weekends. I gotta say, Jen, I don't think this is the weirdest thing you've done for your toddler. Absolutely, Oh this is not this, Absolutely not. I've heard said it was a weird Yeah, a weird day. Oh well, that sounds fun. I'm glad that you're gonna do that. It's a small slow train ride, right. If you will be on a small slow train ride anytime soon, then you may want to queue up some more episodes

of Frugal Friends to listen to after this. So we have a few other debt payoff stories that we think you'll like. Episode one forty three, how Lydia Sen paid off thirty six thousand dollars of debt on one income and she had three kids at the time and her husband only worked so they were a family of five and paid that off. An episode one ten paying off forty six thousand dollars of debt in a high cost of living area with Nurse Fern. She is a single nurse who paid off debt all on her own in

a high cost of living area. So wherever you fall on the spectrum family, single kids, no kids, we've got something for you. Between these three episodes. Yes, so listening, Yes, Maggie. Today our interview with Maggie. She is fantastic. We were on her show, Gosh a long time ago. It's a long time ago, but she is the co host, like we said, of one of our favorite shows, Friends on Fire, and I'm sure you don't need to ask why we

love it. And just like us, Maggie is passionate about minimalism, simple living and helping people on their journeys through life. So she lives in Atlanta, Georgia with her husband and three daughters. But not long ago, she was a divorced single mom getting out of debt on her own, and we hope you find her story as inspiring as we did. Here we go, let's get into it. Maggie. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. We are so excited to have you here. Thank you so much. I appreciate you having

me here. It was an honor to be on your show, and you know the spirit of reciprocity. We could not not have you on our show, especially as we're trying to highlight debt payoff stories. And you've definitely got a unique angle that I think our listeners are really desirous of to see, well, what about this life situation and what about that life situation? So thank you so much for being willing to come on and share how you

accomplished what you accomplished with some very significant barriers as well. Yeah. Sure, happy too. Yeah, so to jump right in, you have shared with us previously that you paid off your mortgage, and just curious how and why you decided to do that. I know that there's different angles that people take and some say do it, some say don't. How and why did you decide that this was going to be the

right move for you? Yeah, that is a great question, because quite honestly, I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it and or even trying to articulate how and why until you just asked me that question. Until you asked me that question, you know, a couple of days ago. And I say that because it just was something I was in the mode of. Right. I almost can't explain why I never liked debt. I was about thirty, Sorry, I was about thirty when I moved to a fifteen

year mortgage, which was the first step of that. But I just I always wanted to pay off any debt I had as quickly as I could whether students, so I did the same thing with student loans. I was practically paying them off, you know, within like a year of getting them in grad school as a um, when I was out of when I was working at that point. But I just I just was always in this motive. I don't like debt, I don't like something hanging over

my head. And I liked the idea of a lower cost of living and just removing a huge bill that was, you know, in my life every month. And I wasn't necessarily as focused on the financial element of comparing. Yes, my interest rate was low versus you know, something versus what I could get in the market. Like, I wasn't doing that analysis. I was like, it feels good, I emotionally want to pay it off, and I'm going to

pay it off. I love that we here got a lot from people who choose to go that direction, And of course our perspective is freedom and what works for you, and not wanting to shame any direction if it's wise, if it's intentional thought out and you have the ability to do it. But I don't want to put aside that, oh that's not as important as yeah, the interest that you could make in the market versus what you have

on your mortgage. Like why it's interesting to me that that seems to be less than for a lot of people as a reason to do it. But there's so much weight in value to what you're describing of the freedom that it's going to create. What it does to you mentally, emotionally, relationally to know that this is hanging over you and you have the ability to pay it off. Of course, it takes a lot more determination to do that. Have you experience like what you thought it might give

to you and having it paid off didn't create more? Yeah, freedom, Yeah, I've I love. I love to use the word freedom. I'm brevity is not my strong suit. So when when I was rambling on about how and why and then you summed it up with the word freedom, I was like, yes, freedom, that's why I did it, right, It feels really good. And yes, I have bared the fruits of you know,

my labor, and I do feel that freedom. And I've felt it since it was that I paid it off or a few maybe nineteen And yes, I feel that I've been able to I got really aggressive on my on a deferred compensation program that my company has. I was able to do that because I didn't have a mortgage to pay every month. Um, we started actually paying off a rental property after that, which we were able to move to because we didn't have a mortgage, right, I didn't. I didn't have that big piece of debt

held over my head. And so yeah, I've had a lot more flexibility of what I can do with my money now. Yeah, so you are, you're married, now, you have three daughters, but when you were paying off your mortgage, you were actually a single mom. So how how did the decision, like after your divorce, how did the decision to pay off the mortgage? How did those two things intersect? Well,

the timeline is is kind of funny. So when I was referencing being thirty a while ago, around when I was around thirty, I was married to my first husband still, so we were married for about ten years, and about a year before we got divorced, we decided to move to a fifteen year mortgage. And that was a really big step. And the reason that was a big step

is because it forced us to pay almost a double mortgage. Right, our mortgage was I think it was around a month, and that was a bit of a stretch for us at the time. I mean, since then, you know, my salary has increased, but it was a stretch at the time. And so that was the first step of just paying

much more towards principle every month. And then again about a year into that, I got divorced and I wasn't expecting or planning on that, and I probably at the time actually would have I think at the time I was a little annoyed that I had a fifteen year mortgage because I was like, well, I wouldn't have done that if I had known this was going to happen. And I wouldn't have said because I'm now that's sort of stuck with this massive payment. And for a number

of reasons, I ended up with the house. I grew up in this neighborhood. I had a lot of nostalgia in this area, and it was just clear that like I was gonna was going to you know, buy out the house basically um. And so at that point I already had this big payment. I was already kind of on this journey, and at first I had a bit of a freak out moment again of thinking why did

I do a fifteen year mortgage? And then once I did the math and really kind of looked at it, I was like, wait, I can still afford this mortgage on my own, right. I never thought about paying it on my own, but I can't afford it on my own, and I happened. You know, I was very lucky that I did have a high enough salary to be able to afford that on my own. And then I still was just really aggressive and had that same vision of saying, I want to be debt free, right, and I have

the feeling of being able to pay this off. So I realized I could afford that monthly payment on my own, and then as I was getting like annual bonuses at work, I would put the entire amount towards the principle. I think it was really I think what struck me the most is that you were You didn't want that verden, You didn't anticipate it, you didn't plan for it, which how so many financial obligations fall on us. And instead of like feeling victimized or waiting or being paralyzed by fear,

you just so quickly took action. And it's so impressive to see like it just took kind of like a kind of like a budget inventory for you to be like, which I didn't do at the time. Threat Yeah, at the time, I didn't track my neck worth, I didn't track my expense. Things I do now, but things that I didn't know to dude, didn't thing to do. I was pretty good with money. I was pretty frugal. But yes,

I did. I in fairness, I did have a little bit of a victim response in the very beginning, but I quit pretty quickly snapped out of it and was like, wait a minute, I could, like you said, I did the math. I started realizing, you know, the reality of it, and I took charge to say, you know what, I I don't have to have this mortgage and I want to aggressively pay it off. And I didn't really think about the future and what I get remarried, when I

meet somebody, you know, all these things. I was just like, I want to pay this house off. This is now like my asset that I own, and I put a lot into it. And we had just done a big remodel on our house too, and so I was pretty invested emotionally and physically and financially in this house, and I was like, I can pay it off, right, And I started to get a sense of how long it would take me, especially if I kept putting my full

bonus towards it every year. I do think that this is worth highlighting a bit because this particular part of your story of being in the midst of a divorce, then moving into being a single mom, and then having all of these various financial obligations, which is true of many people. I think that for those listeners who find themselves in a similar place, like this is the spot that we're zeroing in on of Okay, well, what what

is here for me? And I feel I think anyone in that situation, regardless of your income, so okay, fantastic that you were able to cover that new fifteen year mortgage on your own awesome. May not be everybody's situation. However, you are still human, and that life situation could still be very paralyzing, very debilitating, cause you to make decisions that aren't actually beneficial and maybe even destructive for yourself financially, relationally, mentally.

And I'm not saying that it went perfect, and you're not saying that either, but there was something that happened here where perspective shift or mentality that a choice when at this kind of crossroads of deep pain to say, I'm still going to make good decisions for myself and actually here's what's available to me. Can you just speak

to that a little bit? What was that? Like? What's interesting that I can't admit to having this epiphany until just now as you were saying what you were saying, which was very insightful by the way, it was a

time of pain. It was it was actually one of the first times in my life that I felt significant failure, right, Like I failed at something and I actually, and again this isn't hindsight, right now, realized that gave me paying off my mortgage gave me something I could control, right, It gave me something I could manage and that I could do on my own and feel accomplished by. And it was something I could do right, I could own it.

I was again I control is an important word, like it was something I could control in a world right then when I couldn't control anything. Right, when I was I was sad for my daughter, thinking I never wanted her to grow. Not that I mean, she's got a great life, but not that I wanted her to grow up in a divorced family, and just all these things where I was like, this isn't you know. She was like under two at that point, and I was like,

this isn't the life I wanted for her? Right And and it was sad and I was having um just you know, all of these feelings and emotions. And again it gave me something I could control and that I could focus on. And I and and financially too, I leaned into being really good about my finances during that time. It was a bit of a wake up call. It was a bit of a time to reassess everything and kind of rebirth and renew if you will, it's excellent, Maggie. I think a lot of times we use that word

control in a negative way. It sounds like a bad thing, but really it's what we do with that. We all have power, influence and control over something things that goes wrong when we try and have control over the things that we don't actually have control over. But when we can find beneficial things to exert our right power and influence and control, it can be really beneficial for us, especially at those points of deep pain and difficulty. Yeah,

that's very true. Absolutely feel like I'm in therapy. By the way, this is really helpful, ladies, very helpful. I am. I am the faitist for my day jobs. Sometimes the end of the cleansing only if you come back. So, so, during this journey of paying off this mortgage, what sacrifices did you have to make? And would you change anything

about the experience or journey? So I was. I am incredibly fortunate in that I don't feel like I had to make a lot of sacrifice quite honestly, right, which in some ways I've said to people, you know, it makes my story less approachable to others in some way. But I will say, you know, the one sacrifice I made for where I was in my life and in the world I was. I was continuing to do pretty well at work and and get some bigger, more senior promotions.

The sacrifice I made was I didn't inflate my lifestyle, and everybody around me was inflating their lifestyle. Right, The people I was around every day were at a similar level that I was at. They were also making more money, they were buying bigger houses, they were moving to bigger, more expensive neighborhoods, they were putting a pool. These are real, real stuff. They were putting a pool in their backyard. They were driving into the parking deck in a seventy car.

And so I was making good money. So I don't feel like I had to make any sacrifices, especially from the lifestyle that I was used to growing up and that I had kind of become accustomed to as an adult. Also, I knew that all of those other things that people around me were doing wasn't going to bring me lasting happiness. And so the true kind of quote sacrifice that I made was that I just continued living the same lifestyle

that I had been living earlier in my life. And again, I mean even nicer than you know what, I even nicer than what I had become accustomed to when I was growing up. But that really is you know Again, I was putting my bonuses every year, which was, you know, a big chunk of money against my mortgage, and so I was giving up what I could have otherwise done with that bonus, which again was nothing that was going

to bring me lasting happiness anyway. But I was still able to travel, I was still able to afford the things that were important to me. But there were there weren't a lot of things that were important to me. I think you're right about that part being approachable for everybody. The lifestyle inflation peace any any one of us, whether or not our incomes actually increasing, we may want to inflate our lifestyle just because of what those around us

are doing. I think lifestyle and flay can happen in either way, either because we've gotten a raise or just because our friends have gotten a raise and we want to live the lives that they're living. So I think in that there's there is still sacrifice, and there are still decisions that you had to make to say, Okay, life is very different, and however much money you were bringing in at the time, it is still less than having two incomes as a married person, so certainly changes

that had to happen there. So I think that piece of maintaining what what is right for you and identifying the goals that are going to work for you is what I think we can take from what you're sharing here. Maggie, did it feel isolating while you were watching other people pay that or do you feel like you had a good support network outside of work where you didn't feel

overall isolated. It's a great question. I definitely had a good support system of my good friends from from actually like high school and childhood that we're living similar lifestyles to me, and so had I been inflating, like I would have been different than all of them in many ways.

And so I did have a good group of core friends and we were all living just no, I mean, normal middle class lives, right, And so yeah, I definitely had way more influences around some coworkers and and former co workers, current coworkers kind of a mix that were like, you know, going to dinner at the Four Seasons, and I was like, I'm cool with you know, like a ten dollar burrito for dinner if I'm even going to eat out right, And so yeah, we were, we were.

I did have those influences, but I had enough that we're in my kind of closer inner circle that I didn't feel a lot of like pure pressure in my day to day life. And again, where I came from also was a very very kind of basic middle class upbringing, So I never had I've talked to people before that sort of joke that they've become accustomed to a certain

lifestyle because of how they grew up. I didn't have that barrier, right, I. I actually didn't know what to do with some of the money I had because of the way I grew up. I was like, what do I do? You know? Like, and that's when you know, I can lean into things that we're good to do

with my money, like paying off my mortgage. Yeah. And I'd also like the listeners to know it's not like you're like a doctor or like a neuro physicist or something like with your income, like you're like a normal person with an m b A. Like yeah, with a job, and you just you like worked your way up, so like you consider it high income, but like it's actually an attainable income. Oh yeah, for putting in the work

that you did. Yeah, if you wanted to work in corporate America and get a you know, I worked in like e commerce marketing to general kind of business job, and yeah, I totally worked my way up from I went to a state school. I was on the local state scholarship that you get for having good enough grades in Georgia, and I were I had a pretty kind of somewhat normal job coming out of college. Good job, but normal job. And yes, I worked my way up slowly and what happened to be a very version and

growing field of digital at the time. So it's also encouraging to hear, Maggie the choices that you make even with what you would describe as a relatively higher income, in that it doesn't have to equate to that meaning a certain lifestyle or how you spend your money. I think sometimes not most of our long time listeners, but sometimes we might utilize frugality to become wealthy and then put all of the things aside. Like some people can have the mentality that like, this is how I'm going

to get rich like sidebar, not true. Uh, there are some practices that can certainly help us to build wealth. But it is really encouraging to hear from someone who

you know. For some of our listeners might view this as like, that's where I want to get to, like that other side of having a mortgage paid off and being debt free, and yet it doesn't mean for you that it looks a certain way, like I still live relatively modestly and here's what I choose to do with my finances as a result, And so it's not just a means to an end. But an actual lifestyle. That's

very true. So this being said, Maggie, I'm curious to know what the impact from your perspective is on your daughters with some of these financial decisions that you've made. I imagine, as you describe, your life could have looked different. I bet their life could have looked different to what do you see for them. Yeah, their life could have looked different, but they also have an amazing life, which I constantly try to remind them and to keep to

keep this in perspective. My daughters are now between ten and thirteen. So I say that because we have very different stations than I was having with like a four year old, right, Like, we have much more you know what i'd call like adult. They're they're they're old enough,

especially the thirteen year old. But I'd say the biggest thing is, you know, we talk about money incredibly openly in our household, right and we I've joked, not to them, but I've joked to friends like, I want my kids to think that we're poor, right, that we're like that. I want I don't want them to think they have a lot of money and a lot of options, Like I don't believe that does much good for them in their life, short term or long term, and so I want them. I like, I love the feeling of not

having to worry about a lot for them. Right. I know they're gonna be okay. I know they're gonna have what they need for college and other things, but they're gonna have to work for it, right, and they're gonna have some skin in the game, and all these other things I believe in. But I'd say, you know, the biggest impact it's had on my daughters is they understand the value of money, and they we've driven into them over the years slowly the value of experiences over things.

They know that we will splurge on travel and that they'll get some Really, I mean, they have been more places in the world than I had been before I was thirty, right, and they're not thirteen, you know, they're under all under thirteen, and so they they understand the value of experiences over things like to me, I am, I am slowly every day trying to make them more conscious consumers that value money and value experiences and don't and recognize that they don't need a lot of stuff

or fancy stuff to be happy. Yeah, do you so? Do you have an example of maybe one time conversation came up about money, like recently, I know it's yeah, I mean I say recently. This happens like we were I can't even remember this conversation we were having last night, but it was it was a follow on. Eventually, when I start talking to them about certain things, they're like, yeah, okay,

we got it. Like they're just they're like the points made, you can stop talking, which is one of their favorite things too, Just like, let me know to stop um, because I can really, I can really nail a point in if I want to, you know, I don't let that go. And so, you know, frequently we will pass a house, um, someone's car, and they'll make a reference

that says, oh, wow, they must be rich. And I have to be careful because I've actually caught myself saying things to them that I'll hear repeated back and I'm like, oh, that's not the point I was trying to make, you know, And so I sometimes will say like, hey, just so you know, a big house doesn't mean someone's rich. You don't know if they're in deep debt. You don't know if they're you know, living paycheck to paycheck in that house.

I said, you know, the house you guys live in living is paid for and you don't ever have to worry about anything happening to it, right, And we've prioritized that, and so those are those sorts of you know, discussions will have and they'll make the same reference to somebody's car. I'll be asking about, uh, you know, there was something going on with some kid at school and I'm trying to teach them empathy and I'm like, look, you don't know what that kid's life is, like, you know, like,

don't make a judgment. And they're like, oh, yeah, he drives a parents d have a g Wagon when they pick him. And I'm like, okay, well that doesn't mean anything either, right, Like you know you can't. It's funny what kids are aware of already. I don't remember knowing what a g Wagon was when I was a kid. I don't think I done of a Mercedes. Don't know it's a it's like a really high end Mercedes. Sorry I'm telling I over here, like we still don't get I would have to google it exactly, but I believe

it is a very expensive car. Yes, Uh, And what's crazy is that my kids even know what a g wagon is? It says, I just googled it. The m s r P of a g wagon is a hundred and thirty three thousand dollars. Never that's attainable. Yes, but that's an example, and I mean there's there's other examples. But we just we have we talk very openly, and I'm very cautious because on the flip side, I try to say, look that they may also be really responsible with their money, and we're not gonna we don't know

that we're gonna make judgments either way. But I was like, but don't look at something that looks you know, quote fancy on the outside and make a judgment like, oh, that person must be rich, right, because you don't. You don't know that you know. And the thing we all know, which is you know the millionaire next door, right, You can't you can't look at somebody on the outside to

make a judgment about what's happening behind the scenes. And so those are often the conversations we're having about money, and then also a little bit of valuing how much time it might take you to earn the money you need to spend on something. So trying to let them have some appreciation for why I won't buy somebody who's still growing. I would consider buying a fully grown child appare of Lulu Lemon tights because they might last a

very long time for them. But I will not buy a ten year old a pair of Lulu Lemon tights. I just won't do it. And I have to explain at and and I do You're gonna grow, and that's your fault. Yeah, it sounds like your intentionality with finances has led to your intentionality with teaching your kids about finances. And I think as I'm hearing you talk, it's occurring

to me that those two go hand in hand. That where we become more aware of what we're doing and what we want to see, what's going to bring freedom for us financially, regardless of our circumstances. It's going to help us to be able to educate those around us, whether it's friends or family children. And I appreciate what you're highlighting here too, and it connects with something. So I don't have kids, but Jen has a son, and

you obviously have three daughters. And when we talk with others about their their kids and those who are aware of what they're saying. I think the piece of that money has value to it. And I think Jen also says with with Kai, what she wants to teach him is that resources aren't unlimited. And those two ideas that I'm hearing from you, Maggie, that I've heard from Jen, like that has stuck with me. And I think for children,

holy smokes, is that an amazing tip for parenting. But I think for myself as well, like, how am I approaching this in the reality that it's not unlimited? And in that way, how do I want to then spend invest in these limited resources? How am I going to choose to do that? Again, regardless of my circumstances. For you as a divorce single mom, I know that you're remarried now, congratulations. Um, but yeah, just that intentionality stands

out to me. Yeah, I love the word intentionality. Also is another great way to kind of summarize the theme. There one other thing that I'll note, which especially just on the angle of anyone that's listening to this that is divorced or remarried, that I think might help people, which is a unique dynamic to the conversation we just had with kids, is So those three kids I mentioned, so one of them is mine, two of them are my stepdaughters, and my husband. I might have been remarried

for about I was gonna say about five years. Don't pin me on the exact date, Um I could, I could tell you. I blame it one for the fact that I just don't know, like what year we're in, and I don't know how I'm not I'm very confused by time. These are evergreen episodes, right, But the dynamic of being in a divorced blended families essentially, right, is all those lessons about money, I can only teach them when they're in my house, right, so we each have

x is and then they're remarried. There's a lot of influences in their lives, right, And so the things that they get to do in some of their other households that they u in and out of right with joint custody obviously is different and I and that's one thing we have had to have some very open discussions about because not only do you with well, I'll simplify this by saying, you've got the dynamics of one set of kids that are going in and out of two different households,

and then you've got the dynamics of the fact that they're coming into a household with other kids. Right. And so my daughter, for example, sees things that my stepdaughters get from their mom. And no judgment whatsoever there, But I'm just saying she makes different decisions about what she's willing to give her kids and and do and how often they eat out, and just all these different things. And it's different than mine and my husband, right, which

is their father. Right. And so I probably confused anyone with the family dynamics there. But the point is any blended family is right. The point is you've got you are not just you know in one of the frustrating aspects of all things of you know, blended families is you are not alone in your influence on that child. Right, you have to your co parenting with other people that you were no longer in a your in a relationship

a co parenting relationship with them now. But the thing that I would tell people, and that I've learned through myself and also through through a therapist, that a child therapist that once said this is, you know, kids are incredibly resilient. They know and start to learn what the dynamics are in one household, and so don't you, like, as the adult in the picture, don't stress yourself out worrying about like back to that control word and work

and have a negative connotation. Don't stress yourself out worrying about what you can't control, which is what's happening in other households and the values they might be teaching about money and everything else. Focus on what you are doing in your household and know that your kids will adjust and they will soak up their sponges, they will soak up all the different influences around them, and they're going

to make their own decisions ultimately anyways. And I think that's just an important point because all of these, all of this this intentionality that I want to give to my daughter, I'm only one of the influences in their lives, right and I can only give it to them some of the time, and I can't control all the other influences in their lives. And that's true for any parent, regardless of blended or not. Yeah, I mean, I appreciate what you're highlighting there, but I think you know that's

that's going to be the case for anybody. And so walking out your values is going to be the most beneficial thing that you can do for your kids rather than I mean, lectures are great, but it will be the scene and the cot and the modeled that is the most important. And of course love and care and consistency, but that's a whole other parenting conversation, so many things. Yeah, no, I I totally resonate with that. I mean, my son's two and a half, so we don't have to worry

about like that. But having had like so many outside bound like so many outside influences as a child about money, where my parents never talked about money, and so I caught more from outside than I did from inside the home. And so the fact also that you're so willing to talk about money will mean the influence will be even more powerful than what is caught visually and experienced. Yeah, so let's let's talk a little bit about remarrying and

how you handled the finances there. I know you you finished paying off your mortgage just a smidge after you got remarried, um, but still did it on your own, But like, so how the rest of your finances? How did you handle that? Because I think some people would find that really interesting so I'd say two big things in terms of kind of how I handled how I handled my finances and also how we do handle our finances now, and I have I did just do the math in my head. This summer will be our five

year anniversary. Um so I do, I do know how long I've been remarried. Time has just still lately. Um So. The two big things are prenup, which also has a lot of negative connotations. I'm huge proprene up and I'm happy to get into why, and separate finances, which there's also I personally think a lot of benefits to in general though no judgment because it doesn't work for a lot of people, but those two things have worked really

well for us, and so on the pre nup front. Look, I was kind of burned on my and I don't mean I don't mean burned like something terrible happened. I just mean, like I when I got divorced, I was not expecting it. It wasn't something I kind of even knew was coming, and so I was very kind of scarred by it in the beginning. Right, I didn't want to back to that control word, right, I thought, and I didn't know, you know, you don't know the divorce law.

No one like tells you when you get married what the laws are in your state and what's going to happen to you know whatever. No one tells you that. And and I got married pretty young, so they especially don't tell you and your like early twenties, you know what give any of that? Yeah, yeah, like let me tell you the you know, uh divorce laws in Georgia. So to me, I was just like, you know, I want to fully protect myself. So before I ever met my husband now, I always was like, I will I

will have a prenup if I ever again. While I was going through the divorce process, which was pretty amicable and pretty smooth, actually, I just was like, I will never I will never get into a place where I even need to discuss any of this. It will be predefined. It will be. The thing I love about a prenup that I think is fair for everybody is you are making a decision about what is right and fair when you were in a loving, happy, kind feeling about that person,

which is what it should be. Right Like, things could go wrong, things you nobody could predict. Who knows what could get thrown at you in life and what could happen, And and I don't ever I mean, I would put large amounts of money to tell you that I will never get divorced from my husband, Greg, like I we are,

I just don't ever believe anything will happen. But at the same time, I can still protect myself and go in with a fair setup to say, let's while we're in this, you know, quote honeymoon phase, right, let's have a conversation about what we think is fair and what we brought into this marriage and what we think is fair to happen if something God forbid were to happen. Right, Yeah, I appreciate that perspective, And like you said, everyone's going

to make their own decisions in this. But I think, particularly coming from the experience that you came from, of course, no one goes into marriage thinking that they're going to get divorced, but for those who have experienced it, you can realize, oh, like, there is a reality to this that it is not always rainbows and butterflies and sunshine. And sometimes we believe that the best decision is to

separate and to divorce. And so I think, coming then from the perspective of even handed to know, I do love you, I want to commit to you, but I have seen that there's another side to this, and let's be prepared and let's be kind to each other as kind as we possibly can throughout the duration of this relationship. It's a really, really beautiful and unique perspective and take on it. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, So that worked really well for us, and it was a smooth process.

I mean we've literally spent a couple of hours with an attorney talking through there were certain things I had never even thought of that, you know, we're in a prenup um, but talking through it and then we had a prenup. Yeah. I think I think it's really important for people to consider when they're getting married later in life or in a second marriage. We we want to equate our finances to how they were when we were in our early twenties or got married the first time.

But hopefully your finances are not the same as they were, you know, ten years previously. Uh, And so to just have that kind like to be unclear as to be unkind, and so to set some things down, like at the beginning of a marriage, when you do have some equity built in, you know, whatever it is you've built so far it can be really healthy. It's not just in case of divorce, but it's conversations you wouldn't have otherwise, and you wouldn't have even needed to have in your

early twenties when you literally had like nothing. So yeah, it's I think it's I and to kind of rebrand that document to be something that's like healthy and kind for relationship, yeah it has. But to me, it's almost like a lot of financial conversations which historically people have considered taboo and I think are more and more becoming mainstream.

And and I love your quote to be unclear as to be kind, right or sorry to be unclear as to be unkind, because there is a big taboo around prenups, right, and it is just think of it as a facilitated discussion about your finances, so even just them, it's like premarital counseling in a way, right that if you can't have a conversation about having a prenup with your soon to be spouse, you likely might have some other issues, honestly, because again, if someone is like that unwilling to have

an open conversation about money, which is what a prenup is about then something that could be a flag, right, There could be some other reasons, but like that could be a flag. So yeah, can you touch on the separate finances? Yeah? Sure. So first off, I had separate finances with my first husband also and it worked very well for us um and again a lot of things

were joined and combined. But we also when I got together with Gregg, who is my current husband, we did have some some conversations early on and decided to keep our finances separate. And a lot of that was, you know, we've got like incoming and outgoing child support. When you've got kids involved, it was easier in many ways, right, And when you even think about again again just what people are kind of coming in with, and you know,

I back to the to tie in the prenup. Also, it's like I was coming in with an almost fully paid off mortgage, right, I was pretty close to finishing it, and I was like, I just want to finish it, and that's my you know, quote asset now. But we have separate finances, and I again I think we've done a whole podcast and like separate finances versus combined finances before. But I think separate finances also get a bad rap.

And the thing that I would say about what I consider separate finances is that they're separate on paper, but we have a hundred percent communication and transparency. I know every he knows everything about everything I have and where I spend my money, and we do our um expense tracking together. Um. And we're not like nickeling and diming things. There's certain things where it's like structured yet loose in

some ways, right. And the thing that I would never encourage people to have is I would never encourage separate finances where you don't have full transparency of what's happening with each person. Um. So you know again, it's like we have two different p m l's if you will, if you to use like business terms, but we have you know, budget meetings and financial reviews together and like we're we're co leads in in this life. We live

together and we review everything, right. We What I think it removes is any like for me, what it has always removed in my first marriage and in my last marriage. Like to call this my last marriage that sounds bad, Actually I mean my final marriage, ok, yeah, forever marriage whatever. So what what we have removed. That works really well for me at least is any kind of resentment or

arguments about personal choices with certain things. Right, Like, we're still my husband and I are still pretty aligned on just how we spend our money and what our life

goals in early retirement, all these other things. But when he goes and decides to get a new Apple Watch one day, I'm not like, well, you know, we should have discussed that, And you know, I'm like cool, Like he's managing his own money, right, we I know what our joint collective goals are, and but I'm not going to question, uh, you know, a small decision he made

because I don't need to. It's just it's not it's not even in my you know, I'm not I'm not worried about those kind of little day to day things as a Resultimately, well, it sounds like your finances, like your accounts are separate, but your finances are combined. You know, the way you talk about your finances, that's the same page. That's one budget, one like goal, but the accounts are separate. And I mean so many people are doing we do that.

We consider our finances combined, but like we use credit cards separately that we are not on each other's accounts for but we can still see what's going on in those accounts. So yeah, I think that's super smart. It's it's a lot easier to just you know, have your own accounts and not like I got on Travis's like checking account and that was like a few hours I'll never get back from my life, like uh and none.

Now it's like why, what's the point. But I feel about Eric's search history just going back through all the things he's looking to want to buy a lot of it will never Oh, it is quite the roller coaster, indoor water features, boats and music equipment. It's all over the map and then and then a random search of some middle of nowhere part of Finland and I didn't even do a boat. This is going to be like

a fun date night game. I'm gonna make it up where we just go look at each other's search history to be like, explain to me why you were searching on. It's gonna be then but also really days and we're we're not going to dangerous, but you do right before you bring up that you want to prenup. It's like triple threat, you know, be like I want to separate finances. I want to prenup and let me look at your

search history. There it is marriage advice from Maggie. Yeah, you know what's also super fun and dangerous and hours of my life. I don't want back or I love that you want to keep it. It's the bill, that's right. It's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage, maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. Duck Bill, Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton. This is the bill

of the week, Maggie. Every single week we invite either our listeners or our guests to share with us their bill of the week. Do you have one for us this week? I do. I was thinking to be fun if I used to be married to someone named Bill, but I can't. I can't. So I did just save five I sound like like a guy coo ad or something, except this is with all State. I did just save sponsored by hundred and fifteen dollars on my homeowners insurance. And actually I have to give credit to you know,

Joel and Matt on how to money. I will give them credit because they posted it was actually in one of their episodes. It was they talked about it briefly, and he even made a reference to how he swore his deductible used to be higher and somehow it got lower again. And I was like, I also think my deductible is at least a thousand dollars. Somehow I went in and it was only five dollars my the deductible on my home or sorry, yeah, the deductible on my

homeowners insurance. And so I was like, when was the last time I've made a claim to my homeowners insurance? It has literally been never over twenty years of owning two different homes. So I just very quickly asked my agent, like, hey, what would it be if I raised this to a thousand dollars two thousand dollars three thousand dollars um? And I think we actually went up to now I can't remember five thousand dollars, I think, but we say five

U fifty dollars overnight, which is pretty cool. That was about our overall cost of our homeowners insurance. So that was my exciting bill that it was almost better than a bill because I'd already paid it, so I gotta check in the mail for the balance of what I saved. And because your mortgage is paid off, it's not wrapped up into that you actually get the money back. I do. Yeah, you're right, it's not in my escrow account, and it

is actually a real bill I pay. There's a whole set of bills you paid directly when you like your taxes every year. It's it's a whole new world from a mortgage free living. Yeah, absolutely, I think we often and for those who do, yeah, it's it's and it goes into an ESCO account. You would. Most people don't think about how can I save on home owners insurance? It's like car insurance, the actual things that I really

feel coming out of my pocket. But this is still real money coming out of your pocket one way or another. That it's a good reminder to take a look at that and negotiate it. Yeah, once a year, to look at it. See if they've changed your deductible, See what you can do too if you want to keep the same deductible, see what you can do to lower it. Because you can compare homeowners in and there's not just

one homeowners insurance. I mean we've had policy. Genius has been a sponsor of the show for a long time, and they compare all the sites. Um, not all the sites, but you know, all the major ones, and and there's a lot out there, so it's yeah, I did just

look it up. I moved from a one thousand dollar deductable to a five thousand dollar deductable, which again is like, you're not going to make a claim on your homeowner's insurance for a thousand dollars anyways, because it would jack up your rate so high it wouldn't be worth it. So there's a lot of benefits to having a higher especially if you have the cash for emergency. You know, if a tree does fall in your house, I can

afford to pay for it if I had to. Yeah, unless you like, if you live in Florida, then hurricanes like make trees fall on your home every year on the regular. Then yeah, for a years You're like, I've never made a claim over two homes, and I'm like, oh, I've made two claims in like two three. That actually is a great point that of how everyone's situation is different. I live in Atlanta. There's very few natural desa. There's just very few things, and I say that knock on wood.

My husband even joked the second we raised it. He's like, now is going to be the first time in twenty years that we have to make the place. M hmm. Well you see if that was a good Bill of the week or not. T b C. Well, if you want to submit your bill of the week, visit Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash bill. Leave us your bill. If it's about saving on insurance or your husband or ex husband's name is actually Bill, we want to hear about it and anything else nice. And now it's time

for the lightning Round. Lightning Round Today, we are going to talk about a recent money conversation we've had with a friend or family member, because Maggie, your show Friends On Fires all out normalizing talking about money with friends, and we're about friends. So we're gonna talk about a recent conversation we had. So Maggie as our guest, please

start us off. Okay, Well, I was just at a holiday party and I was talking to a good friend of ours and they brought up something financial before I even did. We started talking about taxes and deferred compensation plans. And first off, I'm like, I get so excited when that happens, because I don't want to I don't want to have like so weird. I don't want to have like small talk at a holiday party, you know. I don't want to be like, oh, what you've been up?

You know, like I like when we get into like a thick, meaningful discussion right off, I'm like, this is great, you know, especially at the holiday party when you want to make sure people have like put as much into their for owen k and their iris. Very true. Ya times running out, We're at a crunch. Yeahs that timing conversation around. Forget the It's not about the holidays, it's about all your end of your financial stuff. You should

do well. First off, this was a morning thing. This is like a but oh yes, start the day Saturday morning talking about you know, taxes and uh deferred compensation plans and everything else. But we were having a conversation and this person was talking about how they were trying to reduce their taxes. Basically, they were saying, you know,

we're in the highest tax bracket. I'm trying to get They were trying to they were doing afferred conversation, trying to get lower and they were talking about how much they were putting in and asking kind of they knew I had done it just from talking about on the podcast, and I didn't want to, like, as they were talking about it, and this person is um married to an accountant also, but I didn't want to make any assumptions.

But as they started talking about it, I thought like, I don't know if they realize that the way tax brackets work, you're only paying like that incremental amount is in the highest tax bracket, right, It's not all your money. It's not like once you make over, you know the I R S brackets like the over eighteen that all your money's taxed at. It's just the amount over thousand dollars that is taxed at. And I was thinking that, and I was like, I want to make this point

to them, but I don't want to insult them. But I didn't once fully understand this, and so I was saying I was like, hey, I don't and I even kind of just said that. I was like, look, I didn't even know this until a few years ago. I'm not sure I fully appreciate it, and I'm sure I learned it at different times, but I was like, you know that you're not. It's not like all your incomes now taxed at that big rate. It's just the like

two thousand dollars over that that you made. And they looked at me and we're like, I didn't know that, And it's just what it reminded me. And I'm not judging them by the way I did not know that. You know, again, I full of years ago and what I what it just reminded me of is just being able to kind of have those like vulnerable conversations where look, I might have kind of offended him and been like, of course I know that, you know, like that's you know,

why wouldn't anyone know that? Like I could have made myself look silly saying that, but I do that on the podcast like weekly, so I'm we're right there with you. But it was just that conversation. It reminded me how important it is to have these conversations that person learned something new. We had a we we both just had like a really interesting conversation about their compensation plans and um,

some different things related to taxes. And it was to me like, again I was kind of joking at the beginning, like I really enjoyed that conversation. It was it was a nice connection point with somebody. It was not just a little bit of small talk of like, oh hey, how's work, you know, and we both walked away learning something new and getting something out of it. And again, it's just it's like a meaningful conversation with a friend about money. It's awesome, And there's so much trust and

safety that does have to be present and dignifying one another. Right, there could have been a whole other way that you could have approached that conversation, or you could have just left it and then she would have gone on not knowing and assuming something, maybe making decisions based on that assumption. So there's definitely groundwork that needs to be late in order to do this. But I do think these financial

conversations are so much more attainable. I think because we know that there has to be some trust and safety, we just back off altogether. But I like the push here to say no, approach it with value and dignity, but then still do it because the more that we do it, the more we all learn and can make better decisions. Yeah how about you, jail? Well, Similarly, I feel like I am having a lot of money conversations

and more and more. So I think as people learn that I'm on this podcast, they're like they just you know, it does almost like open the door and people tell me things. Now, admittedly Jen is the expert when it comes to like investing in retirement plans, I am very

much still on a learning curve. So my money conversations recently have been around like I am in my own learning process as people are like, oh, I'm gonna do X y Z with my money, and I'm kind of like, I actually need to look into that because I've not heard of it. But I am I'm finding myself in conversations where I am somewhat concerned for people and the

advice that they're given. I don't want to get too into the weeds some of these people might listen to the podcast, so like, I don't want to give more

details than that. So that's like an overarching just like I don't know what our point is in like highlighting these money conversations, but I am talking with people, people are sharing and I'm learning that there's so many options out there for retirement, for spending, for leveraging the equity in your home, and I think it is highlighting me again how important it is to have these conversations, because I think without it, we don't know is this a

wise decision or not. I know we all have freedom, but there there is a line where some things just might not actually be a good idea for anybody, and

yet this advice is still being given. And then beyond that, my husband and I recently had a conversation just about our spending and saving, like holding the tension between We are cash flowing renovations right now, but I also have an acute awareness that we're in our thirties and time is of the essence for us as it relates to our retirement plans and goals, and so really getting into some of the nitty gritty of how do we want to hold the tension of both how will we keep

a pulse on? All? Right, renovations are done, let's stop throwing a ton of money at that and go hard at investing in our future. So that that's a more specific recent conversation we've had. I love that you're having that conversation. Thanks. I should probably loop you into that conversation too, since just put me in on the group text um, I will say, when it comes to like conversations with friends and learning, you don't have to be

an expert to talk to your friends about money. Like, sometimes it's more helpful for you than it is for even them, because we don't know every question there is to ask. You don't know what you don't know, and so sometimes it takes having open conversations to figure out what you do need to google. So yeah, I would say, don't be afraid to be open about money just because you don't feel like an expert. I think that's even

it's even more important at that stage. Yeah, So for me, I this is a conversation I actually have frequently with one of my best friends, uh Jess, who is an amazing kindergarten teach her and I want her to consider creating passive income stream around her science curriculum for like K through two or K through three, And yeah, she doesn't believe that it is original enough to do, but I say that all innovation is creative plagiarism, So I think that she should do it, And if she's listening,

I just want to remind her because sometimes she does listen to the show. I think it's a just idea. Yeah, right, she would she do on Etsy or there are other sites that are more focused on curriculum, but I have seen so there are there are, there's there's Etsy, there's Teachers Pay Teachers, but there there's also you can create your own website, like on a membership platform where you distribute it like you can charge people like a monthly fee and they have weekly like full lesson plans every

week on your own platform. So there's there's so many options. You can get started with small these smaller you know, on the Etsy and the teachers Pay teachers, and then once you build up a foundation of curriculums, you can start your own site. Yeah, you know, for all of all my teachers, it's a very limiting belief to think that her and I'm not. That's no no judgment. We all got a lot of limiting beliefs. But to think that her stuff isn't original enough. It's her stuff, it is.

It is original by nature, right, If it was too original, then I would question the science. So that's that's what I will say. This is a bit of a side tangent, but I see this mentality a lot in the human services education fields, where it is an employment setup that is pretty that it is in and of itself pretty limiting. So then it makes sense that our mentality when we

are found in that system is pretty limiting. That you know, raises are few and far between, they're very specific, they're very like low level incremental, and so it is sometimes hard to think outside of that when no one in your immediate network is doing or talking about that. So

it makes sense. But then it's yeah, I mean, it's so helpful to have these conversations about that to say there are other options, even if you find yourself in a system, in an environment that would say there's not, well, we're saying there is. Yeah, absolutely Well, Maggie, thank you so much for coming on the show. We loved having you on. Yeah, thank you for having me. And where can people get more from you if they want to

hear more about your story, your perspective. Most of where they can hear more is at our podcast which I have a podcast with a good friend of mine, Mike, and it's called Friends on Fire. You can visit it at Friends on Fire dot org, or you can just listen to the podcast anywhere you listen to podcasts. We put out a new episode every week on Everything from frugal living to pre nups. We actually haven't done a dedicated prenup episode, but it has been on my to

do list for a while. This might inspire me to finally get on us. We talked about a decent amount though when it's relevant. But the best place to find us is just wherever you listen to podcasts, and we're I'm not a big I'm I'm like loose on social media, but Instagram is probably the place that we are the most active for sure. Awesome is it? Friends on fire? Friends dot on fire? Cool? Okay, well we will link all of that in the show notes. Again, Maggie, thanks

for hanging out with us today. We'll see you later. Yeah, thanks, Jan and Jill have a great day. Thanks Maggie. What a great time with Maggie. We like all the different perspectives on debt payoff and certainly I think she brought a very unique perspective to the table that at various points in her store I think we can relate to. So we do hope, as we said before, that this was a help to you all in your own debt payoff journeys. Absolutely, yeah, And she's just a I mean

a normal person like you, like us. There's nothing she's not an economist or somebody who you would think to be uniquely apt to doing you know, something special like this, Like we are all capable of doing these things. So I hope that you're inspired by by that. Yeah. Well, thanks everyone for listening, and we also want to thank you for your kinder views on Apple podcasts like this.

One comes from Classy D A D three and it's titled look forward to Friday's Happens to Be five stars and they say, from budgeting to investing and smart shopping to thinking outside the box, these ladies cover it all. I really look forward to Friday's when I Can You're a new episode. Thanks John and Jill for being down to earth, knowledgeable and relatable. You're welcome, class A D A D three. Yes, thank you, class A D. Thanks for thinking that we are knowledgeable, I mean definitely down

on the earth and so relatable for sure. For sure. We also want to thank our friends who share these episodes on social media. So when you share the latest episode on Instagram, we are adding you to our monthly drawing. For every five tags and reviews we get each month, we are giving away fifty dollars for you to spend in the Frugal Friends shop. That's frugal Friends dot shop if you want to check it out on the internet.

So keep leaving us those reviews wherever you listen to podcasts and send the screenshots of that review that you wrote to reviews at Frugal Friends podcast dot com. And still don't forget to tag us on social See you next week. Bye. Frugal Friends is produced by Eric. You're Jen, what do you think will be your favorite part of that train ride? Telling everyone about Thomas's hidden agenda all day because the show has an underlying hidden agenda that

people need to know about. Same with Happy Feet, like that show, I mean that movie too. Like they're just there's so much everything for kids is so loaded, and like Thomas came out in I don't know, the fifties, sixties, very long time ago. Everything has a ulterior motive. It's not just for children, but it's also for it's for brainwashing them. Yes, there's so much propaganda in it and and like you said, it's it's not new like that. Thomas is such an old show and they're trying to

tell you what what kind of fuel this thing? Should run off of Yeah, you know what doesn't have propaganda Cocoa melon? Okay, I don't know, Toddler, I don't know. There's no propaganda in coca melon. And that's my least favorite show. See, that's the thing you like, the edgy, getting ideas out there, getting a little yeah riled up. That's what you like. It is what I like. Apparently, it's like I want to ruin the experience for everyone there.

That's what I'm most excited about. You think you're going to talk to complete strangers about it. No, I'm not going to talk to complete strange. I don't talk to strangers, Jill. I'll talk about it loud enough that strangers over hear me talk about it loudly to Kay in a way that guy I will never understand. But adults, well, yeah, that's exactly what I'm gonna do. Have fun,