Financial Adulting with Ashley Feinstein Gerstley

interview with the fiscal fem Ashley fine Stein Ghostly. She is full of wisdom and knowledge from her fifteen years in the financial industry, and just a lot of empathy and relatability. So many different topics that we touch on in this podcast. So listening, glad to have you here. But before you listen, let's hear a word from our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by Margarita's m Margharitas invite you to confide your financial woes to them, but

not in excess responsibly. If you're a Frugal Friends listener and you like Margarita's, we would like to invite you to celebrate with us tomorrow April in St. Petersburg, Florida at our four year anniversary fiesta. So if you'd like to hang out with Margharita's and us. Please head to Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash party for more information. If you just want to make a quick trip to St. Petersburg, Florida, quick trip, quick trip party, Yes, we would love to

see you there. Oh my gosh. Yes. All right. So if you are into financial adulting, if you don't know what financial adulting is, or maybe you love it, definitely to in for the entirety of this interview. It is good all the way through, especially when we get to the part about consumer activism. I think that was probably my favorite part, but I love the whole Internet. I have another favorite part and it's going to be obvious

when you get there. But definitely listen to at least the Bill of the Week segment to find out my favorite part. Good, good teaser, keep keep them, keep them in it for at least half the episode. And some of this does include like involved like mindset shifts, So if you are looking for another episode to tea up after this one, I think episode one thirty nine on money mindset Shifts is a really good one. I think this one will challenge you out of some of your norms.

I hope it does. But yeah, I mean we we love Ashley. She is the author of Financial Adulting, and the book is a guide that breaks down down pretty much everything you need to be financially confident and conscious, which I think our topics that aren't talked about enough, just like confidence and being a conscious consumer. She's also a money coach. She's author of the Thirty Day Money Cleans and the founder of the Fiscal fem which is a money platform on a mission to end inequality through

financial well being. Uh and I think you will like her as much as we do. You can obviously tell she's a powerhouse. Let's get into it. Welcome Ashley to the Frugal Friends podcast. We are so excited to have you. Thank you. I'm so happy and excited to be here. Oh, we are so looking forward to diving in hearing your perspective. You have so many different outlets and resources for people, and so I think that this is just going to

be a really rich conversation. So let's jump in with you know, just a softball here, ash Let's ease into it. You talk about financial adult ng and we're curious what is that and how is it unique to what we're used to hearing about money. So I would define I think financial adulting. You might think of someone who knows everything who never makes any mistakes, but that is not the case. I make mistakes. I'm still learning all the time. So to be a financial adult I have put it

into like four different criteria. The first is a financial adult takes small consistent steps in their money life, because there can be a tendency, like if you think about a New Year's resolution to overhaul your finances in one day or something, or spend a weekend and just change who you are around money, but that kind of sets us up for failure. And these small consistent it's tricky to say small consistent steps lead to big results and make it more likely that will stick with it and

continue on. So that's a big one. A financial adult knows what's happening with their money, which might sound simple, but it's actually profound to know what's coming in, what am I spending, what's going to my goals? What are those goals um And that ties into the third piece of financial adulting is having plans that you're confident in.

And I've heard from people that they feel confident in their plan, but they don't know the numbers down to the scent or the t they're not exactly sure, and so I wouldn't say confidence means that you know exactly how much you need to save for retirement, but that you feel like you have a general guideline you check in on it every year, So having that confidence in your plan and that you'll be able to check it

and revise as you get closer. And then the final piece of financial adulting is just to understand our privilege and understand the context of equity and money, so that if we do have financial privilege, we use that to help close the racial and gender wealth gaps. And if we're coming from a ace of oppression, we understand that and know that the system wasn't made for us to have some compassion for ourselves and to not compare ourselves with others. So I would say those are the for

components of financial adulting. That's amazing. I feel like so often when we use this word adult ng, it comes with this connotation of like I don't want to I'm oh I adultd today, but it's always related to something like really boring or like an obligation. But everything that you've described feels like I want that that doesn't sound scary, It sounds like something that I want to aim for.

Is that what you're seeing from people like moving into stepping into adulthood and like embracing it, or are you identifying barriers for people? What do you see overall with this concept? Growing up, I thought there was a time where you just felt like an adult, and I realized

that you never actually feel like an adult. So I do think breaking down that it is not where you're you know, I'm all of a sudden, this adult with money, that it's just about showing up, learning from our mistakes, learning from the things we do right, celebrating like we're all kind of in this together, and we're we're many of us are starting from a place where we haven't learned about it, we can't talk about it. We just have so much working against us when it comes to

personal finance. And so I think, you know, there's there's also an idea that adulting is an age, and these concepts and and taking these steps applies to really any age, and depending on our life and privilege and what we've experienced, we might start financial adulting much later in life. A lot of times we're not doing it right when we graduate college or get our first job. But I think that also is associated with adulting. I love that you're

also not highlighting that it's an arrival point. It's this process, and I think sometimes that that goes along with that word of being an adult adulting Like like what you said, I would imagine I would have arrived at some point of a sudden of flip switches, and I feel like an adult and I don't do the silly things I used to do anymore. But you're kind of flipping the script for how we would define it that it's just this,

it's this process. It's step by step, it's knowing ourselves, our context, others, the ways in which we're responsible for our life circumstances, and the ways in which we're not. Things have happened to us so oh so much to dig into. You've made it sound really simple, but obviously like each of those steps have so much to it. Yeah.

I also love that it's about confidence and small steps like I don't keep a meticulous budget like our listeners will know that, and but I am confident in the fact that I'm saving and maxing out my wrath Ira, I am saving for my goals and all of that, and so not doing it like a like a stereotypical personal finance nerd um and knowing you can still financially adult even if that's not who you are. I love

that you you pointed that out. I think that's a really unique perspective that we don't hear as often as we should. Thank you. And I also I think there's no arrival point is kind of like a sum up in life for our finances, for our goals, for our careers. Like and also to to your point that there's not one right way to do it, there's like a million ways, and it's really about what works for you and knowing yourself and what keeps you motivated and keeps you taking

those steps and feeling confident. Absolutely you You talk a lot about equity in finance in your book, UM while confronting some of your own privilege. So what are some of the biggest barriers you see to equity in personal

finance and what can we do about it? Yes, so this has definitely been a huge learning journey from me for me and I. So I interviewed thirty five brilliant and diverse experts for the book, and what I found, and you know, you hear stats you learn about hopefully around the racial wealth gap, that the average white family has a media net worth of a hundred and eighty eight thousand compared to twenty four thousand for black families

and thirty six thousand for Hispanic families. But what I didn't anticipate was just how much this affected every single area of our personal finances and when So I think it's hard to pinpoint like where it is most difficult, But what you'll see is that if you are a woman,

the personal finance world is different for you. If you are a person of color, the personal finance world is different from for you if you're a mother, if you have a disability, if you're in the l g P T plus community, and then if you have if you

identify as multiple things, right, that is like intersectionality. Now you're having the compound effect, and this affects our income, which affects how much we're able to invest and put towards retirement, whether we're able to stay in a job that has a four oh one K, or we need to take time off to care for somebody, or if you're you know, equally you have the same or even better credit profile as someone, but now your mortgage is more expensive or your home is valued less just because

you're black. So there's it was just in everything. There's a chapter in the book on equity and money, but you'll notice that in every chapter in talking with people, it just comes up in every single area and they all are into related And I think there's the current situation that that impacts someone's finances, but also the historical because when there's a wealth gap, there's less money to pass down, there's less money available to help a family

member when they need support or when they want to start a business, and so it's just it was just so pervasive and the in you know, the book points out a lot of the issues I don't Unfortunately, I wish I had more answers, but some some of the experts I interview would pointed to different changes in policy

and incorporate practices and and us. I think one of the wonderful things is as individuals, when we're I noticed that there was usually someone in someone's life that gave them a nudge, like the person I sit next to at work who said, you know, you really should invest in the four one K plan or another colleague who said, hey, this is what I earned, like what do you earn? So we can compare? Or the friend who said this is how I budget, you know, how do you budget that?

Like by becoming financial adults and improving our financial literacy, we can be that person for other people. And so I think that's beautiful and also a lot of times it should be enough that to do this for ourselves. But sometimes it can be really motivating and inspirational to think when you're negotiating a raise or when you're building wealth, that it's not only doing it for you and your family, but you are paving the way for others to do

this name. So it can add this um sense of purpose to our personal finance journeys as women and people of color, or if you're in the LGBTQ plus community, all those different areas. I love what you're highlighting here about the various levels of impact, speaking to the micro level, the meso level, the macro level. And there's a concept within social work that's that's my background, called Person and

Environment PIE for short, I mean love pie. So that's great too, but it's in what it is is it's calling us to look at well what is the context, because the context is going to inform what's available to various people. What is their environment? There a person within a context, and that's what you're describing here. But I'd love to hear your perspective on how specifically you see us understanding this concept for whoever we are, whatever context

we're finding ourselves. And you listed off a variety of different things that we might find ourselves, you know, aligning with how do you see that being specifically important to to identify to focus in on this Biger issue in relation to our finances. So it's interesting, I think, what if you're imagining person and you mentioned how I talked about my privilege in the book, and so imagining just like my personal finance advice or tips from my perspective.

Let's say when I go through the process of having my home appraised, right, that is a very different experience than when I interviewed feed Gentry for the book. Um she talked about different things that someone who is black or a person of color can do to have their

home appraised or what it should be. So that is showing equity and personal finance education like having education that specifically speaks to your experience and your context and how importan And that is because my experience getting my home appraise.

If that was the advice that someone got, they would probably have their home appraise for less because they wouldn't make the changes to like remove have a white person stand there when they're getting the appraisal, or remove pictures of their family which are It's like horrible that that

needs to be the case. But having education specific to our experience is so important and what makes the education very usable and valuable to that answer your question, Yeah, absolutely, I think you know, it's bringing up for me some of my own personal journey and realizing how helpful it was for me to describe my circumstances accurately and then

respond to it within my own context. Like there was a time I've talked about this before on the podcast and Full Transparency where my husband and I were living below the poverty line, like as it stands in written form, we were making far less than what the government identified for our area was the poverty line, and yet I was acutely aware of the fact that I will never be homeless, Like I know, I don't make a lot

of money. I am technically living in poverty, but yet we have such a connection of friends and family, and we are white, and we I know that I have privilege and access to things that those in another community would not have access to, and so I think it really helped me to like sober mind it, like, Okay, this is a reality for me. But also because of

these things, I'm not going to be completely destitute. And I need to be careful with the way that I talk about my circumstances because even though these are my financial circumstances, I need to recognize the ways in which I have privilege and resource and access in ways that others don't. And so you know, in some ways it's like, yes, I can understand this experience, but in other ways I can't. I don't know what it means to fully be in poverty or homeless or to be concerned about where my

next meal is coming from. And I think that really helped me in like forming a foundation and building upon that to say how I'm going to respond out of that, and and then yeah, how I relate to others who might be in different circumstances and not imprinting my own

journey onto others. It's it's such a broader conversation. But as you're highlighting, I think important for us to realize, Yeah, I I think this topic can feel so overwhelming and to an extent like a little mind blowing, because sometimes it's when you the more you learn about it, the more you you are, it seems like unreal that some of this stuff is going on, And so like I know that even for our listeners, like even in the financial space, like it's still sometimes mind blowing, like how

much of the like how pervasive some this is. But I liked how you gave just like a little tip of like being more open about financial topics with the people in your community can start to bring down some of these barriers, some of these walls with people because you don't know what you don't know, you don't know to ask questions about things that you don't know exist

or good for you. And the more open we are about what we're doing financially, and the more conversations we can have about financial topics openly, the more we normalize it, the more people we can reach this stuff. And like we were just talking this morning about how one of our members in our community she got a text from a friend who was asking like, I know this sounds weird, but can you help me make a budget? And like she is, she is, uh, you know, a member of

our community. She doesn't consider herself a financial expert. But when you are confident in your finances, you don't have to be perfect, and when you are open, then people start to ask the questions that will help them. And so the small I feel like the small thing, the first small thing we can do to reach more equity is just to be more open and have more like

constructive conversations. I love it. Yes, it's and it's it's it's really true because it can feel like we have no power, and in a lot of ways, I think it's really important to acknowledge the big things that need to change. But then also how do we navigate where it's at right now and what's the best that we can do and what are things we can do? And I think transparency and being that person for other people that like for someone to text her it shows a

lot of things. That shows that she was open to that message because it often would be completely terrifying to ask someone about that, and that you do not have to be an expert to share what you're doing, and share what's worked for you, and like we talked about, there's so many different ways to do it, so someone could take what you're doing and adapt it to work for them and maybe the thing that they need is

exactly what you know how to do. So I think that bringing it back to something we're able to do about it, can um just give us a little bit more power is hopefully other things change as well. Speaking of what's in our power and control and influence, you talk about consumer activism. Can you explain this concept why

you see it as being so important. Yes, it's another place where we can have an impact, and we know focusing on the places where we can do something about the things that we want to see different in the world. So how I define consumer activism is using our money to vote for what we want to see more of in the world. And that could be in the form of spending so who we spend our money with, what companies were supporting, products were supporting. It can also be

in the form of giving time and money. I believe it could be in who we bank with, where we invest, um what we invest in, So all types of things. In the book, chapter six is all on consumer activism and I found for my own journey, because it's another one that is that can be really overwhelming and just very just unknown, like there's not really a right or wrong.

It's so personal. Companies are big and complicated, So looking to others who were doing this well was very or doing honestly doing it and and the people I interviewed for the book to share their consumer activism criteria, I think are way further ahead on their consumer activism journey and are brilliant at it, and so just to hear how they think through decisions to purchase. But again, just like with financial adulting, as we do research, you can

feel really overwhelming. So thinking about okay, every month, I'm going to research one expense that I'm making or I'm going to switch one expense over, so making it very manageable when we're looking at where we're spending our money and being clear on what is important to us about the companies we spend our money with. So for me, I am I am passionate about companies that have women and people and women of color on their boards and their management teams. Also if they're doing things to be

more sustainable, that's great too for me. Um and so there's a long list that you can choose from. But the problem is if we have too many criteria, then often there's no companies left. So it's important to have some criteria rank them too picky, yeah, depending on what the company is. Like I love supporting women owned brands

and women of color owned brands. But there was an article I forget which paper it was with, but someone tried to only support women owned brands and they really they there were not a lot of categories that they could purchase in, and so UM having these criteria and then and the goal of it is that companies make changes based on our group buying power, because we are flagging to them that these things are important to us

and they want our business. So the goal is not to if I'm not able to purchase with one company this year, like if I come back next year, maybe they've made changes. And that's that's what we want to be seeing is these these changes. But always goes back

to the goal is to influence. But there it's not only about consumer activism, Like there's there are other things that need to be done to UM, but this is something that we can do is use our dollars to vote m this is something I'm learning more about and something I've heard you talk about, Jen Like It's alerted me to like vote with your money and and I love that concept. But then in practicality, I could it could be it's not convenient. I'll say that much. Especially

when it comes to banking. It's not convenient. You have to do research. Sometimes the banks that are more equitable, sustainable, uh investing in quality companies are more difficult, cult to engage with, or they don't have all of the conveniences

or accessibility that maybe your larger institutions would have. But that being said, you know, oftentimes when we come up against something that we want to do, will will jump to the problem first, and the reason of why I can't, Like, I'll go to the most complicated reason of why I can't vote with my money, rather than looking at the low hanging fruit and what is available to me? What could I what's that small thing? Adult ing? Love it? What could I do next? So for for someone like me, Ashley,

where would you say to begin? And I realized that everyone's values are going to be different. But but with that in mind, where would someone begin to find the low hanging fruit in consumer activism. I love that you brought this up because it is really it can feel

so daunting. And there's also privilege and consumer activism because often the company's making a sustainable choice, or the more equitable choices be more expensive, or the actual time to do the research, you know that a lot of people don't have. So I did. I have a fiscal film Slack community and we now have a consumer activism channel.

And I started it because one day I needed new sneakers and I spent four hours researching sneakers and I was like, you know what, if I do this research and people in my community are doing this research, we should all post about it, or can at least ask each other and then be able to search to use each other's hard work for our benefit, because it's like a database there form exactly because it takes a lot of time, and a funny enough side effect of it

is like if it's not if something's not worth doing the research for and then you end up just not buying it, it might be a sign that you didn't really want it to begin with. You know, it's like a good way to weed out expenses, but I think it's where to start. I so in the book I

have people go through. I think the first thing to think about is what's important to you about companies and start to listening out some of the things that are important to you and that you want to have share values with, Like what are the values you want to share with companies. I'm also doing and this can be overwhelming just in the result, but kind of looking at some of the places that your money is going and seeing how it stacks up. So kind of doing like

and I call them a consumer activism audit. But you can also just dive in and so if there's I find a really great place too for low hanging fruit is recurring expenses just because the research you do is something that will punt intended pay off over and over with every subscription. And also setting some boundaries like Kara Prez, who I interviewed for the book. She founded a company called Bravely Go, and she only does this for her variable spending, so she has made a boundary like my bills,

I'm going with the cheapest thing. I'm going with the thing that is convenient or that works for my life. But I'm going to spend the time in my variable spending like my shopping my even like it also can get meta because you can even just focus on your groceries, like in the grocery store when you decide to buy, addressing like what are the options? You know? So what what's the company I'm supporting? So I think taking one decision a month and kind of researching, looking at it talking.

I think it's a great opportunity to talk to friends about money too, because it doesn't feel as scary as saying this is how much debt I have or this is what I earned, Like I want to talk about values and this. It's a very rich, again un intended conversation because it is not there's no right and wrong here. It's someone might completely disagree that this company stands for this, and so you can have some really cool and interesting

conversations and learn a lot. I love looking at utilizing money as a tool not just for our personal lives, a tool to get at the values and goals that you say that we have to live a life that we want, but our money as a tool to support others, to put our money towards the things that we say that we value for the benefit of others, not just

the benefit of ourselves. I love, the blending that all of those things can be, and probably the simplifying of spending that this can turn into when we really identify, this is who I want to spend with, this is who I'm going to support, this is what I'm going to choose to not buy. And if I can't find alternatives, then can I be content without whatever that thing is. I'll make my own salad dressing if I can't find

salad dressing but owned by women. Yeah, I mean, I think it comes down to we so often when we're trying to do this equitable thing, or even like the sustainability thing or whatever we're trying to do something new, we try to fit it into the mold of the life we're already living, and we try to fit it around what we have, you know, have wanted. But it works a lot better and it's much more sustainable when we change our lifestyle and our desires to fit in

the more equitable lifestyle. So that may mean buying fewer or none of some products that you can't find equitable. It doesn't mean everything, and you can definitely choose, you know, I say, start with like one or two really important things to you, and it's going to be different for everyone. And if we all picked two things that we really cared about like that in itself would make a huge difference. You don't have to be perfect or this, like like

activist on the internet that is like the picture. Yeah there's no perfect in this unfortunately again and yeah there there it's it's a full air to try and be perfect in this. But Saty from the Good Place proves that one out. Oh my gosh, Saty. Every decision has a consequence. So everyone just picked one or two things they cared about and really used that as their true north in spending decisions, like we could collectively make a

huge impact. Because businesses, companies, corporations, they follow the money like they ultimately like don't care about people. They care about dollars. And the only way we can make them care about people is to pull the dollars away from them. And this is the only thing that works, even more so than policy changes. Taking money away from these corporations is what works, and I think to like in addition to it's also at what feels natural and easy to you.

So if texting your friend like you found this really cool company feels good, then now they know to use that company, or if you like to share that you this company hired a new woman CEO and you're so pumped about it, like put that on social media. So there's not one way to do it. It's like actual using your dollars. It's talking about it, um, it's not

using your dollars in certain places. And to your point about buying less and how it lines up, it's funny because even if a company is sustainable, when you're buying a product, it's a thing that took things to make right, So a lot of times not buying anything is the

most sustainable choice, or using what you already have. Tanya Hester, who's also in the book with her criteria, she wrote A Wallet and Activism, her most recent book, and she was saying that ironically, when people are trying to be more green, they like throw out all of their plastic tupperware and then buy glass or stainless steel, and like the resources it took to build that when they already had something that was working, but it's deemed like bad

or not looking green has them used so much more resources. So taking I think just also this being more thoughtful thinking about things, but just a good for our wallet good for our values. There's a lot of winds with it. M m hmm. So the last thing we want to talk about is kind of being your own money coach and like becoming this financial adult by being your own money coach. Which I love this idea because I I personally I hate money coaching, not money coaches. I hate

doing it myself for other people. So if I could tell people how to be their own own coach, I would actually love to know that. How to fish? Yeah so, and I like hate fishing too, so you know I hate a lot of things. I guess, um, So, how how do you become your own money coach? Yes so? And to your point, like you can still hire money coaches. This is not against money coach preferences. I hate coach shing, yes, and this is like in it could be in addition, it could be on. It just gives you more power

to do this on your own. So a few things. A money coach, just like any other coach, is someone who helps us reach our goals, and money coaches are just specific to money goals. So a few things that they do or should I think should do that we can do for ourselves is first, cheer ourselves on If you notice the language we use about money just with ourselves, or even if you're not even sure, but the physical reactions we might have to that language can point to

not very nice things being said. So just like cheering ourselves on money, coaches should also help us learn from our mistakes. And I think there could be there can be a tendency when we make a mistake to kind of punish ourselves, feel shameful, and then just move on without really because it's so painful, we don't really want

to reflect on what happened. But that's the whole point and what we can learn from because if if let's say, you know, it could be something like I said a budget for my groceries, or I wanted to spend or this amount or I wanted to save this amount this month and it didn't happen. If I don't actually take a look at what happened, there's I really can't do

much different next time. So trying to take the emotion out of it as much as you can and play a little detective at those mistakes to help us get better. UM coaches provide accountability, and that's hard to provide it for ourselves. But I'm a huge fan of having money parties, so a monthly time where I sit down and deal with my money, do anything on my to do list, So having that in the calendar, potentially having up friends, involved families, so that we know we're actually going to

keep that that date. Coaches should also track our progress and like again cheering us on, but celebrating the progress. So having a clear idea of where we are where we want to be, looking at the milestones along the way. So I think those are the big things that money coaches do that we can do for ourselves that not only increase our chance of success but also make it more fun along the way and more enjoyable, rather than this thing we don't want to deal with and that

kind of haunts us all the time. I appreciate the way that you listed out the specific things that we can be doing for ourselves that are going to make a huge difference in our approach to money. There, our perspective on ourselves and kindness with ourselves, curiosity, like that investigative approach that you identified, and and then the celebration and the fun part. I mean, I'm not gonna lie.

I linked on to a money party that sounds really fun and party follow up question what happens when you invite other people to your money party? Do you all sit down and separately, like do your budget? Or what what happens at a money party? Such a good question. So money, how do you? How do you throw a money party? So I call them parties for a reason. I do think you should make them fun. And again, you want to test out things that make them fun for you, Margarite, So at mine, like I have a

money party playlist. I play songs that pump me about money. I get cozy, I have tea or I have wine. If you have an alcoholic beverage, I recommend drinking it more towards the end party unproductive. Um but once your money is doing really well at the beginning party or regardless, you'll think it's doing really well. Um But and you

can also reward yourself. And it could be small thing like I'm gonna watch a mindless show after this, or go I'll have a money party where all my friends we know we're having a money party, and then we're gonna go meet each other out afterwards. But it's a time to like look at your numbers. How are my goals doing. It's also really great to compartmentalize our money. Like if there are things that come up throughout the month that you have to deal with that are not urgent,

if you're hacked, like deal with that. But otherwise you can deal with them at the money party. And that's good for our relationships too, with partners who it might be a little bit money's a user. That's the time where you really set the stage. This is a no judgment zone, and we're going to deal with our money at that time. So they can look different for different people,

but generally you want the fun vibe. You want to have your agenda going in so you're clear right when you show up what's going to happen, and then reward yourself and make the party itself fun. Actually, I have heard of people rebranding, you know, looking at their budget monthly, and they don't you know, they don't always call it budget meetings. There's all sorts of new names we can come up with. I have never heard of anybody saying, like, let's invite other people outside of our home to our

money party. And it's blowing my mind, and I think this is gonna be my biggest takeaway, so thank you and you set a lot of really great things. But Money Party is sticking with me. Actually, right before the COVID started, I hosted in person money part these where we all came together, and then I did digital ones.

But there's something about the accountability of that too. If you have guests, whether digital or in person, that are coming, you're going to be more likely to actually stick with the time and to make it more fun and social.

It does so much for motivation accountability. But then I also think decreasing the stigma around money because if you're doing that, that means you're talking about it, and it starts to create more and more of a safe place for people to be able to discuss all sorts of topics related to money if you're doing and doing it in this very like non confrontational, very lighthearted, playful way on something that is serious, Like you're right, we should be sober when we do it for most of the

time that we're doing it. But I think that there's so much that that that you're highlighting here that's important and it's fun and speaking of things that are fun and end a party, oh my gosh. Every week, every single week the Bill of though. We that's right, it's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage, maybe your car died, and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore.

Tough bill, Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton. This is the bill of the week, Ashley. Every week we invite a listener or our guest to share with us their bill of the week, and we know you have one for us, and we would love to hear it. Yes, Okay, So I was thinking about what is my bill of the week, because this is such a fun part of the show, and it's a kind of a weird one, but it's real,

so we're here for weird, all right. So this is one, and it's actually hopefully informative because this is this can apply. A few have health insurance. So my son is getting some type of like he's getting he's an occupational therapy, and the place I want to take him to is out of network. And so what we're able to do so that we don't have to pay for this out of pocket is there are not other providers in the area that are in network, and so we're able to

get an out of network gap exception. So if you ever need something for exam or a professional who's not in network medical professional and it's not offered in network, you can apply to have that provider in network and your insurance and so that it is covered. So I feel like that is the probably the most money savvy bill situation that we had. Wow, that will be helpful, I'm sure and relevant. It just happened to you this week. Yeah, that's awesome. Probably was extra work for you. It sounds

like it's paying off. It will yeah, and I guess it too. It depends on what the bill is if it's worth the work. But this will be kind of like a long term weekly thing that will now have covered that we didn't have covered before. It's awesome. Well, if all of you listening have any tips, any worthwhile, whether it's related to medical expenses or you know, just your uncle named Bill, visit for Girl Friends podcast dot com slash bill. Leave us your bill. We we love it, all,

we accept it all. Let's hear it, and now it's time for clicking round. So this week there is a little section of your book, Ashley, and I'm sure it wasn't even like consequential, but like, it just stuck out to me. And now it's the lightning round question. And I didn't actually read the sections, so I'm sure I'm taking it out of context, but again, it just stuck out to me. Oh my gosh, this is the spot when gen links to be vulnerable and like very honest,

to the point of like, maybe you shouldn't have said that. Absolutely, yeah, I know I shouldn't have, but here we are. So there's a small section in your book called how Much is Enough? And when I read it in the table of contents, I was like, wow, what is enough? How much is enough? How do you decide what is enough for you? Because that's so important because if you don't decide what's enough, then you will never have enough. And so I just wanted us to share, like how we

decided how much is enough? Like not even the number, but just like how did you decide what to base the number on? So actually, you can go first, I'm sure this is a mistrewing of your good work, or you could provide us with the cliff notes of that. Yeah, nothing is inconsequential. The book was twice as long as it was supposed to be. And I had to cut down like half of the words, which was probably the

most painful part of writing the book. And so everything I included, like I tried not to repeat myself, it's been edited down like only what I think needs to be in there. So definitely appreciate you seeing that section.

And it was in the context. So there's a chapter, so you know, we have the intro about what is financial adulting, equity and money, which I think that context is really critical to be upfront, and then we dive into goals because, like you mentioned, like that's the whole point of having money, and most of us are not motivated by having a stack of cash. It's like what we're actually doing with that money that is exciting to us.

And so that's why I wanted to kick it off with goals so that we have that motivation in mind. And for a lot of goals, one of the reasons we don't goal set is were like how much because some of these are so ambiguous given we don't know what this will cause, so we don't know when we need it, we don't know how long we're gonna live. So I love where you're taking it is how much

is enough? Because I have found, and I've been in a situation like as far as income, for example, where I thought, oh, when I hit that next raise, that will be enough, or when I hit this, that will be enough. And it goes back to like never arriving. If if that is how you're basing it, you don't have it based in in any reality, you will continue

to chase that. In my experience and what I've seen in others, and I'm forgetting the study, but there was a study that I um because I've talked about this in a workshop actually that if there's a number that you want, once we achieve that number, we typically just want double again, right we can it's easy to lever up.

And it stood out to me too when I was and of course this is after your needs are met, right like you mentioned earlier, and wanting for your next meal, having like home and security and knowing you're going to have a place to live. But there was a documentary about Bill Gates. It was inside Bill's Brain, and I remember it stood out to me because there was an episode where he was sitting down with I don't know if it was warm Buffett, but he's sitting down with

somebody and he was stressed about money. He was stressed about the finances of a project and how there wasn't going to be enough funding, and like this is the like he has billions of dollars and money is still a conversation because just like your projects become bigger, he's trying to end whatever he was trying to end in the world and get clean water everywhere. So that really

stood out to me. And so I think it is important not only and I think it's also in our values, like what do we want to create with that and keeping ourselves to it, and um, being able to celebrate as we build that, because otherwise it will just it's the phrase that I've actually made it as the mantra at the back of my phone. Um, it's already more than enough, or it will never be enough. So so I guess in a lot of ways, right like it

is enough. It could be for a specific goal. So if you're trying to figure out what I need to have saved for retirement versus like what do I need for my life to be happy? But some of the things that have stood out for me is and one of my friends actually shared this the other day, but like enough for wealth is like getting to say yes when my kid wants to do an activity right and not and knowing that I can say yes to that activity and for him to pursue whatever. That's when both

swimming or take the gymnastics class. To me, wealth also or enough is like freedom and choice, and that actually was a lot of what spurred me to start this company is when the reason I needed to figure out money is I took a big pay cut when I went from investment banking into corporate finance, and I was

bleeding through money, like losing money. My life was unsustainable and if I didn't figure it out, like I would have to have a higher paying job and not have the flexibility in life saw that I wanted, and I was able to quit my full time job and run the fiscal fan because I had money saved. And so to me like wealth and money gives freedom and choice and the ability to give and support others, and um, I guess give the freedom and choice to my kids too.

I resonate so much with what you're saying, Ashley. I think I'm acutely aware of the fact that I could have a goal right now, but once I accomplished that, like like whatever I would describe as my enough right now. Once I get it's usually something that I haven't yet achieved, like, oh, well, it's enough when this happens, and then I'm under no impressions that that's gonna okay. Then I'm done. Now I'm ready to just like keel over. I'm sure I'm going

to identify something that comes next. Like right now, I would tell you I'm gonna feel so good when our renovations are complete. It's going to feel like there's so much money in the bank when we're really able to tighten our belt and we're no longer cash following renovations. But I also know that when that's done, I'm gonna be like, all right, well now I want a second story on my garage, and then like maybe it'd be cool to put a pool in and then like and

then who knows what comes after that? So like I like, for me, I think that just this question being at the forefront constantly is the thing like making sure, because to me, this question is what can help me to breathe contentment. Like I grew up seeing not only my own parents, but friends parents, just this whole generation of taking on debt to support a lifestyle that they desired.

And I remember promising to myself from like a young age, I will live below my means, like I do not ever want to take on whatever that means, whatever lifestyle I need to adopt that gives me cushion below that is like what I want. But I can see lifestyle creep. I can see as I'm coming into my career and feeling more established and confident, like I'm not doing all of the amazing things that I used to do when I was actually in a really tough financial place, and

sometimes that hurts to look at and see. But this question is really challenging to me, and so I'm hardly answering the question myself because it is such a tension place for me because I don't I don't think I fully know that, and whatever my answer is, I don't think it's true. But I do think that I want to keep asking myself this for that check of contentment if no more came in right now, if this is where we plateaued in life, of course borrowing like I

want to keep growing. I want personal growth and development, but let's just say for some hardship, I can't. I want to know how to be content. So I think that's that's for me. What I've noticed is like a life style that I think I could probably say across the board is an aim is like something that covers my needs like you said, and some of my wants.

I don't know that I need to be at the place where, like I just did, like gorge myself on all of the luxuries, but also like enough room for generosity. That's really important to me. So I think when I find myself in that place where like needs, some wants and generosity to others, that's when I feel most content. And I actually feel less content when it's like I want, I want, I want, I want all the things. This

is just a helpful, like heart check for me. Can you be content again like you were when you lived in a hundred seventies square feet? I don't know, Jill, come on, can you? I'm gonna listen back to this podcast and ask it to myself. Um, for me, I would say, when my income can support our family, Like right now we just live on travises, but we'd love to switch that so that he can like come home and kind of spend more time with our son and do the things he wants to do. So our goal

is just to flip flop that. But we also did just close on the house hopefully by the time this episode airs. Gosh, who knows, So that does need renovations and so yeah at present like it does it our income and expenses like it is enough. But again we have like the goals, like we just we decided to take on this real estate investment which is going to cost money in which we need to you know, raise our income for a period of time. So yeah, I

would I would say we are. It's been a hard year kind of coming to terms with the fact that we actually are at enough for our lifestyle. Um, and we are increasing that like in intentionally, but I'm always one to like go more and more and more. I am very much the person I have to tell myself, like you have to decide what enough is or or nothing will ever be enough. I'll just double like my goal every time I hit it. So that is very much me. So I found this like exercise very challenging

but um freeing as well. So yeah, actually, thank you for drawing our attention to so many important concepts today of our own life story of what it means to adult of how we can aim at greater levels of equity in all aspects of our environments. And you've got more. Where can people get more? Thank you? Thank you so much for having me. This has been an incredible conversation. You can learn more at Financial Adulting book dot com, Awesome on Instagram. What are you the fiscal Femi, the

fiscal fem on all of the social per awesome. Thank you so much for coming on, Ashley. Thank you again. Yeah wow, I think you after every interview you say that money party? Do I say that? Do I ever say that? But money party? Yes? That was the teaser there, it was. I'm gonna try and plan my next one. Although my next money party is essentially the party that's happening tomorrow, the Frugal Friends four year Oh my gosh. Practically that's any different kind of party. It's mostly a

Margarita mostly thank you Margarita, Margarita money madness. But I think the money party is just is a really great way to create some of those open, honest conversations about my me, Like if there are people around you that are you know, people of color, women, um, LGBTQ, like there are a lot of things stacked against certain groups

of people and be intentional. It's not awkward to be intentional about including them in the conversation about money, to invite them to your money party, to talk about money topics openly, how much you make, what your budget looks like, what your core values are that influence your spending. Yeah, that that's a tough thing. But we are not going to be able to aim at equity unless we do start to speak more transparently about real money figures, to see where the gaps are and how we can help

to elevate others in our community. And so I think one of the things that actually really highlighted with this Yes Money party, but all of the different things we can be talking about at the these parties. I mean, it doesn't just have to be we get together and budget together. It Obviously there's consumer activism to talk about.

There's equity and and inequality and gaps to be talking about, and there's real tangible tips to be talking about, Like, yes, there's space to talk about how do we budget, how do we get at some of these goals? Zero ways, the environment, simplicity, minimalism, like if if that, if there's an even over more overarching takeaway with Ashley, I think for me it's that like, how many different intersections there are,

how much more space there is for money conversations. Yeah, I think it's it's a small thing that we can do is to create these conversations because you don't know what you don't know. And I think that when you are living in a place of privilege, no matter how you feel about that word, you are influenced by the people around you and how you spend, earn and invest. And if you know something, don't assume that everybody else knows it. If you do something, don't assume everybody else

does it. If there's something working for you, then then share it. You don't have to be a financial expert to share your experience about money. You are an expert in your experience. Uh So, I would just encourage everyone to be your own little mini money expert. We need so many of them, there's no sure. I mean, there's so much room for more. So, Yeah, I really love the takeaways from this one show and Tell Money Party. It's it's brewing brainstorm and is a brewing I'm excited.

There's also so much room for all of you are listeners. Thank you so much for tuning in listening to another one, and we also want to thank you for your kind reviews on Apple podcasts like this one comes from HUD's in Valley mom if four Mom I four maybe of wasn't available, so mom I four titled love Them five stars. Thank you for your easy to listen to an encouraging podcast. I'm a wife and mom of four kids, ages twenty

one down to thirteen. We have a lot of unplanned expenses with college and sports programs, but you helped me to find ways to think ahead and plan better for these unexpected bills. You're fun and easy ideas help me to keep moving forward. Thanks for all you do. Keep up the good work. Oh Hudson Valley mom if four.

We are so thrilled to be here for you, and it sounds like you've got a lot going on that is quite the age range of children, so I'm just pleased to be a small part of that that journey. Thanks for listening. We also want to thank all of our friends who share these episodes on social media. So when you share the latest episode on Instagram, we are going to add you to our monthly draw drying for every five tags and reviews we get. Every month, we give away fifty dollars for you to spend in the

Frugal Friends shop. So keep leaving us those amazing reviews wherever you listen to podcasts and send the screenshot of that review that you write to reviews at Frugal Friends podcast dot com. Keep tagging us on social This is how you get into that drawing and we will see you next week. Cigal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni, Jen Yes Jill. Speaking of Margarita's, our sponsor, tying it in,

bringing it full circle. So at our party tomorrow, we are going to be serving Margarita's, but to save on time and money, we're gonna be pre making them. Probably right now, that's what we're doing. If it's for Friday, that's what we're doing. If you're listening to six am on a Friday, we're premixing. If you're listening to it at eight am on Friday, we're tasting the pre made. Margary got a test them, taste test, I got a test them, and I got the pictures that they're going

to be served out of. Now. If you're also listening, don't be scared. We are having a bartender, keep track of who's it's not going to be a free for all. People aren't just coming up and like we're in their own pre made marks. That would be too expensive. The marks would be gone too soon, So it more would be to hire somebody to distribute the part. That part is true. And also I'm gonna be really excited when

we get to write off a bartender as a business expense. Okay, but this is I also got pictures like large glass two and a half gallon pictures to sort to serve the margarita's out of the bartender is going to serve the margarita's. The pre made marks that we made at eight am to people on Saturday at six pm. Now, when I went to get them, I got them on Facebook marketplace because I'm frugal, you know me. I'm over

here on the marketplace getting deals. So oh and I also got them glass or not plastic, and we will reuse them again and again and I'll let people borrow them. So it's great. When I picked them up from this woman, she was like, and you know, typically the pictures of these pictures, it's like you could serve lemonade out of one and tea out of another. That's not what we're doing. It's marks out of both. And she says to me, are you having a party, And I'm like, yeah, definitely

having a party. She says, we just use these for our wedding recently and we served pre made marks out of them. And I'm like, well, they're getting back to their roots because that's exactly how we intend to use them. Oh wow, what a story. Me and my lady from book Marketplace given me a deal and aligned in value. And you don't you don't get these stories when you buy things from the store. You just don't. Saw a new part of St. Petersburg, got a deal, got glass jars,

ready for the marks. Well we're ready, so be be ready to see our fun on Instagram at Frugal Friends podcast, will post like one story because the rest of the time will be drinking. You know. Yeah, see you there. If your local