Do You Need Frugality to Reach Financial Freedom? with Jamila Souffrant

Episode three point fifty nine. Do you need frugality to reach Financial Freedom? With Jamiala Sifront.

Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity and life. Here your hosts Jen and Jill.

Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast.

My name is Jen, my name is Jill, and.

Today we are having a really fun conversation with our friend, Jamila Suffrant of the Journey to Launch podcast. She just wrote a book that releases in just a few days, Your Journey to Financial Freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness.

We are so excited for it.

We're so excited for her, and so we wanted to have a conversation that was maybe a little different than the conversations she's.

Going to have on other podcasts promoting the book.

But just because we've like known her for so long, we wanted to talk about do you need frugality to reach financial freedom? And if so, to what extent? So, because we all know that frugality can only go so far. Cutting expenses and spending on your like in your values, can only go so far, but how far? So that's a really fun conversation.

Yes, we are really aligned in a lot of our thinking. But something that I found fun about this conversation is some of the different ways that Jamila describes these concepts that you and I Jen talk about a lot, but fresh perspective, new metaphors we could all use that.

Yeah, and where you can find your radical middle in using frugality to reach financial freedom or financial independence. But first, this episode is brought to you by Cheesecake Clan. Glynn, a subscriber the Friend Letter, told us I just had my free Cheesecake Factory slice of Heaven for my birthday thanks to your free Cheesecake Day post. That by far was the best birthday freebie out there. And you too could be getting all these freebies by signing up for the friend Lettery.

Yeah, that's right.

We don't just send you like free digital worksheets and spreadsheets like all these other people are doing. We're telling you where to find free food on your birthday, but every single week we tell you where to find it, not just on your birthday. So head to Frugal friendspodcast dot com sign up if you're already It's free, So why wouldn't you if you're already a member? Receiving the friend Letter for free. Share your unique link at the bottom of the friend Letter, shared in your Slack channel,

That's my favorite part.

Fourth, and you could even get a sweatshirt if you refer so many people.

Yes, but the stickers are cool too. I love the stickers. My son loves the stickers. I'm looking at one on his dresser right now. So it's December first, and you're probably expecting some holiday content. We are going to do all of our holiday savings tips. We took an inventory of what you guys wanted and we're going to give you everything you want in the friend Letter. So that's another reason you should sign up for the friend Letter. We're going to be talking about tips for saving on food,

Love that one. That one's my favorite.

We got Episode one eighty four Tips to prepare for holiday sales Early episode one thirty three Tips for avoiding holiday impulse buying, and then all the way in the archives, episode thirty three, Frugal Christmas Fun. We talk about free holiday activities and frugal traditions that you can look for, So queue those up for all your holiday listening.

Needs, and.

Please reque up our Black Friday episode if you haven't listened to it yet, episode three point fifty seven. Frugality is giving big impact energy. Listen to that before you do any holiday shopping.

It's the mindset you need. So Jamila Suffrant is the author of Your Journey to Financial Freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness, which you can pre order now, I believe she said on the pod. It launches December fifth, so you're right in the pocket and there's a sports reference for you.

You have a few more days to get the pre order freebies, which is why we're putting this episode out today and not in three more episodes, because we want you to get the freebies.

Yeah, but act fast. Jamila is also the host of the Journey to Launch podcast. She and her husband saved one hundred and sixty nine thousand dollars in two years. She's also the mother of three young children. She lives in Brooklyn, New York. Those are just some fun stats about her, but also she's a fun person. She's got a lot of really unique, approachable, helpful things to say about financial freedom. So let's get to her.

Jamila, Welcome back to Frugal Friends podcast. Love having you here.

Well, thank you for having me.

This is so exciting for us to get together with some fellow financial people and talk about some of our favorite topics together, including your book.

Thanks for being here.

Just to kick us off, Jamila, I am curious to hear your perspective on the difference between financial freedom and financial independence. And of course, as you answer that question, feel free to introduce yourself. We're just diving right in for you versus financial independence.

Let's get straight to it.

But you know I'm you did the innsru belefore, but you know I'm jamila'sufront of the journey to launch podcast and now writer author of this book, Your Journey to Financial Freedom. And honestly, I know that people tend to describe or use the term financial freedom and financial independence interchangeably, especially if you're not in the fire movement or the financial independence retire early movement, and so for the purposes of my content and especially the book, I wanted to

You don't need to wait for a number in the account to feel that.

Yeah, I love that distinction.

To me, it sounds like it is more accessible to people almost at any point, and it doesn't have to be tied to an income level or a savings amount, but that we could kind of define how it looks along the way.

Yeah, we're definitely like financial freedom people.

It's this.

It is truly like the radical middle of like between financial independence and kind of yoloing right, Like when we start like financial independence sounds great, and then somewhere along the line, it's like, why am I working all of this time to what about the right now? Right?

Well, it's funny you say that.

So in the book, I talk about imagining going and walking into a like finance high school, and you see all these tables, you know, not like you walk int high school. There's all these tables associated with groups. So that's the jocks, it's the art club, it's like whatever.

It's very appealing.

So like you walk in and you're kind of interested now in getting your finances in order, and like you're you're looking at them, you're like, Okay, who can I sit with?

Who do I want to sit with?

And that's how I felt what I intentionally embarked on getting my fireinances in order. It's like I definitely tried to sit at the elite fire table and did those things for the first couple of years, and they were amazing. And I definitely was aware of the general personal finance stuff, but I knew I didn't want.

To do that.

The basics because the basics would keep me locked into like a basic path to retirement if I ever got there based on what they thought. And then I didn't want to live yolo, but I wanted I wanted some parts of that. I still wanted to enjoy my life. And so how do you take elements from all of that so that you can craft a unique journey? And so I believe that's what I've done with my book.

Yes, what a fun visual I was imagining Jen and I just kind of going to every table and getting the free samples and cook these and chips offered at every table. That's kind of how everybody go to Jill.

You're friends with everybody.

That's that really was Jill's reality. She went to every table and they actually.

Did get her chips In Salta.

Everybody just gave her part of their lunch. Yeah, for the rest of us, it was not cost We did not go to high school at costco. So all right, here's here's a tricky question. Do you have to be frugal to reach financial freedom?

Oh? Okay, It all depends on your desires and what you want your lifestyle to be. So if frugality feels good, and there are levels to frugality, because you can be frugal in all areas, like your overall life and budget is frugal, like you just do not spend in anything or many areas and that's fine to you. That feels good. And if that feels good, then your journey to financial independence. Depending on how much you make and all those other factors, it's very possible to hit that mark and to hit

And so reality is.

Definitely a superpower in reaching financial independence, especially if you have a good income, which I find a lot of people in like intentionally in the movement do but doesn't make it impossible if you don't. But you don't need to be frugal in all areas to reach financial independence or get to freedom.

Yeah, so succinctly said, yeah, it can be that superpower, but you don't have to be implementing that in order to find this financial freedom, which I do think aligns a lot with what we talk about as far as values based spending, that there are areas that you can spend guilt free and other areas where you might just say no and it's really no harm to you. It's not hard to say no to these things once you really realize what's actually important. And like you're saying, how

So I believe that depending on the stage of the journey you're in.

And I also have I have a lot of frameworks.

That I hope are helpful to people because they were helpful to me in figuring out, and so I have five Journeyer levels in which you need to travel to to reach financial independence. And then I have something called which I know will get into five WUAK levels.

And that's more tie to how much.

You want to spend and for me, because when I discovered financial independence, I just I did not enjoy what I was doing full time. I had an hour and a half normal like one way driving commute. I was starting to have kids, so I was pregnant with my first child. That really prompted me to be like, no, this is not going to be it. I have to

And at that time, I had.

Declared by forty years old to be able to do that, and I was going to do it by any means because it meant more to me to be able to

And now there's even more on my plate. I have more kids.

You know, I have this business that seems to be growing and doing well in terms of reach, not necessarily money, because it wasn't making money then. And then you know, this commute, all these things, and you know, I said to myself, what's more important? So should I stay in this job because I'm getting the money and just thug it out for the next few years so I could reach financial independence or do I have a different route.

And for me, the cutting back our.

Saving was helpful to get me to a stage in which I could quit my job because we had all the money saved. Now we had the FU fund together. I put myself in a better position. But I also realized that that lifestyle for me wasn't as sustainable, Like I wasn't as happy cutting back, but it was necessary in those first couple of years, in the beginning journey

Yeah, I think it's great to point out that you live in New York City, you have three kids, and you were the breadwinner, like you were the breadwinner of the family.

And you're cutting back to like leave your job.

This isn't like like some people who like reach out to us to be on the show are like, yeah, we can't.

We're like me, hi. There.

We find out that both of them are making like six figure like entrepreneurs and just have these like lifestyles that of course they lend themselves to financial independence, no children, low cost of living, high income jobs like of course,

So yeah, it's understanding when to get up from like the table, like it's okay, And it doesn't mean like I'm not friends with those people anymore. It's just not I have another priority or thing to do and people that need to get to know or things I need to learn, and it's okay to change your mind in that.

And I always say so I.

Believe frugality, like income is a big driver of any of this. And I'm like you, so I interview a lot of people and know a lot of people, and even in my story, you know a lot of people who are choosing to spend a percent percent of their money with a high income. That's a privilege, right, because you have people so y'all hear someone say I only spend twenty thousand dollars at twenty five innutes, it's like, and they're able to reach a lot of their goals

You're hitting on so many important pieces and it's making me recognize in maybe some new ways my own definition of financial freedom and where I feel drawn to. Sometimes I can oscillate between let me just reduce my spending as much as possible, and then other times and I'm like, Okay, I want to make money and how much can I possibly make? And let me just hustle, And then other

Yeah, I think it's so as much as a lot of what we talk about is external, like doing a lot of external work and relying on external circumstances, which is it's true, like you know, you know you have other people you need.

To work with.

You may have a boss, the markets, like you know, news cycles, all the craziness happening in the world. Like there's so much external things happening that impact our lives. But I think there's a lot on as much as the journey, it's external, it's internal about like who we are, how we feel. You know, what we feel when we wake up in the morning. You know whether that is feeling safe or happy or not. And that can change on a day to day basis. You know, it changes

That's not an easy one.

Also giving yourself grace and changing your mind because you don't know all the things you need to know yet to make all the decisions. And so in the like in the book, like I say, like you are going to chart and like map out what your initial plan may look like. But you are going to come back to this plan because as you start moving forward, you're going to change.

Your mind about things. And that's okay.

You know, you got to recalibrate, you got you have better you know, you have better information now you know more about yourself. So I think understanding who you are and starting the journey is important. You don't have to have all everything correct or everything right, but then as you get more information, you can choose like, wow, you know I try to do this thing. I try to budget in this way or cut back in this way, and it feels good or it feels like a lot

We don't love hearing that we have to start with self knowledge and understanding because that does sound like work. But man, I couldn't agree more.

Yeah, and it is lifelong work.

Like anybody who says they have it, like, oh, I have the formula and I've come and come to completion and I have reached I've reached mecca.

I am done.

Like they're probably dead and you probably yeah, they are right if it's not lucky, right, most people like don't master anything. Things are not meant to be mastered in life. It's just meant to like keep pursuing forward. And so it's yeah, like every that's the beauty of like a content like podcasting or blogging or videos.

Is that that? I mean? Books are great. We're also writing a book.

But like the books don't change, but you can always change your mind throughout like a content series. And so as you grow, like people know and people know why you're growing and how you're growing.

So like I I love that. But yeah, like.

I've still you know, talk about like not buying fast fashion because it's like not it doesn't last as long and it ends up, you know, doing costing more money in the long run. And like last week I bought a shirt from Target and a sweater from Old Navy and and some leggings from Walmart. You know, so like nobody's perfect and I'm outing myself.

You are right more than you needed to because you.

I'm horrible at keeping targets. Yeah I did, and I'm here for it. But but yeah, like these are guidelines and discovering yourself and and what feels good not just a process but also changes like every I would say. So when I was in acupuncture school, they really talked a lot about like I don't know, moon cycles and cycles of yin and yang, and for women it was like every seven years is a yin cycle and you

Yeah, so yeah, I don't know that's why true for me too.

Oh it's so it's so hard to like and then anticipate reevaluating every seven years and coming up with a whole new plan frustrating.

So moving, sir, Let's say, question, how do you so, Tomia?

Like how do you like balance what you sit with, like what feels good, like what you're frugal in versus like what what you're not like?

What do you really lean into?

And then how do you decide I'm not going to lean into this because it just doesn't feel good anymore.

So I think what feels natural to me to not do where I'm not forcing or doing it for other people's gaze or expectations, so for example, and part of this is laziness, so you know, you know, laziness gets a battery for that, but it's saved me a lot of money. I think I'm now coming to a realization too about myself.

You know, I am a lazy.

I'm lazy in terms I'm lazy in terms of physical appearance outside of like I like working out and like looking fit, but when it comes to beauty related things, I've never been into those things, which has saved me a lot of money, like nails, hair, eyebrows, eyelashes like I and I love when I end up doing it and I look great. But what I learned about myself. I even did this thing when I turned my birthday.

I got my nails done. I did like all the things.

So I was like, Operation City Girl, Let's see about like time that it takes to do all this the money, the energy, and I did like a whole episode on it because it wasn't just the money, Like the money was a lot to do, but it was also the time it takes to do these things, which again for me, it was outside my norm. And when I don't do those things, I'm completely happy, Like I if I don't have to get my nails done, a go to do

It feels like more friction.

Like I want to be able to eat and go out to eat and not think about it too much. Like of course, like I'm not just buying everything on

And I'm like, no, ma'am that I don't want.

To do that.

And so I think, and there's no judgment, like she she's fine, like that's what she wants to do. And I think it's just realizing, like what that looks like for you, what feels natural, what feels good not to do and not to get bullied because I have like some friends whould be like, you know, like you should do more. I'm like, why, Like, I'm fine without doing more, like not to be like to influenced by outside people

Yeah, because it sounds like you like you like it. It looks good also to have your nails done, but it's also not this high value priority to have it all the time. You can be happy with I'm going to do it for my birthday, and I'll do it for a speaking event, but otherwise this isn't something I do all of the time. And I'm also content and happy with that too, And like you said, that's going

Are you talking about? Was this was this guawk lifestyle?

Right?

You know?

So you will be the first podcast episode. I think I officially told this, So you know the name of the book is your Journey to Financial Freedom. But one of the things that when I went out with a proposal, I mentioned the quak lifestyle levels in it, and so then I thought of why don't like the name of the book could also been by the damn guac But

But.

I wanted to talk about how people feel about how they spend and like the lifestyle levels because it varies for everyone, and sometimes you like blanket conversations or ideas around personal finance. And if a person doesn't want to spend or likes to spend in a certain way, how do you get it on like a level in which it makes it just more relatable and you have a base point of what things mean. So the guac lifestyle levels are a range of how you want to spend.

So some people who truly like guack style three, four.

Or five may say, like I did, I'll do one and two to get me to this level to allow me to quit my job and then I can adjust back.

To more of a three to four level in which I actually enjoy.

Some people live the one too, and they want to do that throughout the journey and when they reach financial independence. Some people are living a four or five and can't afford really a four or five, and they should like hold off on that until they get in a better financial situation. So it's just, I hope, a relatable, fun way to think about how you spend and what you want your lifestyle to look like.

I love it because it's it's actually like guacamole is fun, but it's something that's kind of not tied to your motions that if you gave an actual range of this is kind of the lifestyle, you can look at it like objectively and be like, oh gosh, I am like living at four or five and I should probably be two three.

In this season.

Not necessarily like owning a guacamole factory, but I was thinking, like table sidequalk that seems like the ould.

For me.

But if I'm trying to get off debt, maybe like I'm I'm foregoing table side gualk and you know, getting the pre made guak at Trader Joe's like just moving back a little bit. You don't have to move all the way back to one if you're not ready. But but yeah, taking something that's like outside of you know, your actual because so often I feel like we we say we ask ourselves like why am I doing this?

Why? Why?

This? But I think Jill like taught me using questions that are not why, but like how is that how you phrase it?

Jill?

Yeah?

How?

What?

Where? When?

Why?

Is a great question in certain circumstances, but when it comes to understanding ourselves sometimes it can put us on the defense. When we start there, it's much different to say why did you just spend so much time shopping versus what is it about shopping that you really enjoy? Like I'm asking the same thing, but different responses. One posture we clam up, we're defensive, the other one we become more curious.

Yeah, yeah, I actually love that.

And I'm like, did you were you here with me writing the book because I'm trying to find a part in here where I say I actually say, you know, we have to ask ourselves better question. So for people who are just learning about maybe this movement and what they need to do to get there, if you ask yourself like the wrong type of question, it could be discouraging,

So I love that, And we love solving a problem, and we love answering questions in new way, and we love asking questions in the same way every week.

Never changes.

We usually yell the question, yeah, it's the bill of the week.

That's right, it's time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe you've paid off your mortgage. Maybe your car died and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore. That's bill, but flow bills, Bill Clinton, this is the bill of the.

Week, Jamila.

Every week we yell at our guests or our listeners and ask them what is your bill of the week?

Not why is your bill of the week?

But what is your A healthy question, and it builds everybody up, and so we would love to know yours.

Yeah, okay, So I took my kids to Disney for the first time in the summer, and you know, we did all the things, and I realized they didn't really have a lot of Disney like references they because they don't they didn't watch a lot of Disney movies. And I was like, wow, Like, so they enjoyed a lot of the things, but I'm like, they would have enjoyed this so much more if they would have watched a

Yeah, that's so funny.

I So we live like an hour and a half from Disney in Saint Pete, and so we're I mean, I, personally, I don't want to put this on my family. I have been a Disney person since my son was born, and so the minute Disney Plus came out, we signed up. And I literally just signed up to cancel the subscription last because they're we've had it for a really long time. We love we love Star Wars, we Marvel, we love

And we're like, none.

Of the shows that we want come out for like six months, so like, let's skip it for six months, We'll do something else, and then once the first show we want is fully on, we'll sign up again and binge it.

But I have found that my.

Son doesn't really he would rather watch like somebody play Mario Kart than watch a Disney We tried last night, Jimilate. We tried to watch the New Little Mermaid and then the Shark came on like five seconds in and he's like, I.

Don't like it.

And I was like, man, well whatever, that's the thing.

I feel so same thing I have.

My kids are nine, seven and five and so no, they're really into watching people play video games now and playing you know, on NBA two K, three K or whatever. And I'm just like, so my son, I said to him, if I buy this, because he's the main one, my oldest one, he wants to watch Star Wars all the movies. So I was like, are you going to watch it? And I'm like, you know, it's okay because I want

Yeah, the perscription was for me and my husband.

Well, I think this is a good bill too, because you are talking about investing in something so that you can make the most of the money you invest on your vacation, because you're not necessarily getting the most out of it if all of it's being lost and the levels of enjoyment. You are buying enjoyment by buying a subscription.

The learning round, all right, So this is the vulnerability round of the show. And if Disney Plus wasn't vulnar Disney Plus cantilely Disney Plus and telling people about my three item shopping spree, if that wasn't vulnerable enough, get ready. So our question today is what was the first step you took that you believe had the most significant impact on your journey towards financial freedom? So what did baby Jamila do to really baby Jamila?

Maybe like.

I'm confused to infant infant me, No, like when you what was the most street ryde?

What are you thinking about?

Baby?

Is that what you're thinking?

I'm thinking like if I said like baby, Jen, it would have been me like in my twenties.

Okay, Okay, that was helpful. Now I'm glad we like that.

Okay, I like that.

You can send all of your hate mail to Jen at Frugal Frien's podcast dot com.

She's also the one who bought from.

Target, Walmart, Old Navy, so all of it on podcast dot com.

Don't don't act Jill. She has straight hair.

Wow?

Really hair?

Yeah?

You know?

Okay, So I love this question and I try to like make the short this. But so in in the book, I also talk about something called hyperlinks. And you know, you read an article or a story and ade like it's highlighted and you click on it and takes you down the rabbit hole and more hyperlinks. And so I really do believe our life is a story that it's made up a lot of hyperlinks that we choose to click on or not. And so when you ask that about like what did I maybe do that helped me

So it does begin with baby Jamila.

It done, wasn't wrong, that never happens.

Actually, Wow, that's so beautiful. I resonate with that so much.

What about you, Jen, So for me, I'll say, I'll give two events, but they happened in this span of six months. So for me, it was like the path that led me down, specifically talking about frugality when there are so many more profitable subjects that I could have talked about in my life. But the change that did it for me was getting shingles. So and that was prompted by deciding to pay off our debt when we

Like that was life changing. So yeah, what's that?

It was lovely, lovely lightning round. Yeah, I love that, Jamila. Thank you so much for being here with us. You've got a lot going on, so if people want more, can you tell us about what you've got? Where can they find you?

Yeah, so you can buy my book, Your Journey to Financial Freedom, A step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness. It's available now, I believe depending I mean if you can buy it now, but it's officially in sour December fifth. You can go to your Journey to Financialfreedom dot com see what special bonus I have for anyone who's pre ordering order it from anywhere bookshop dot org.

Awesome, thank you so much for hanging out with us. It's always it's always fun to hang out with our fellow like podcasting friend. We don't have a ton of them like that have been around with us, like for all six years, but yeah, you're one of them, so so is a delight.

That was great.

Thanks, Jamila was great.

I shared a little bit too much, but it just felt like a safe space. And I have to remember that thousands of other people are going to be in this space, but that's okay.

I still feel safe. It is safe.

And you know, what I'm learning is we are not all things to all people. And the more salacious things we say, the more hot takes we have, the more frugal fails we partake in, the more we identify our truest of true.

Audience, our real frugal friends exactly.

Thank you all our truest of true frugal friends. Clearly that's what you are if you've made it this far. Thanks for listening. You already know. We've got a newsletter called the Friend Letter that goes out three times a week. Each day of the week there's a different theme. So Mondays we're telling you what's for free, what food for free, activities for free. Wednesdays we're giving you a savings tip. Fridays we're talking about life hacks and money mindset shifts.

They said.

This is from Michelle, who said, Hi, Jenna, Jill, I hope you ladies are doing well. I've been a listener for years and I just wanted to take a minute to let you know that the budget Toolkit emails are the most helpful thing I think I've ever received from you. I'm finally being consistent with actually looking at my spending and making a plan for the coming month. Each and every month and I seriously feel so emotional about it.

Oh yes, thank you so much. Yeah, jildn't even mentioned. The last Friday of every month, we send out a budget toolkit, which tells you what goes on sale the next month, what produce will be in season, like what you should be meal planning, what you should be budgeting for, so like helping you make your budget for the next month on the last weekend of every month. And people have really enjoyed that, and again it's all free.

I'm so glad that this was helpful for you, Michelle, and that it has become this looked forward to tradition. It's clearly a way that you're getting your husband involved, which it's all just so beautiful. So if you're missing out on this this is all sounding really good to you, and you want some frugal friendspodcast dot com go get you some of these goodies and then tell your friends about it and get more goodies.

See us.

Gorugal Friends is produced by Eric sirianni oh Jen m Hm.

I am in my Sourdough season about three years late to the game. But I mean there are still people like super into sourdough. Sourdough I think transcends, like people have always been into sourdough and they still are. Yeah, sourdough happened to me. I had girlfriends visit me in September. Shout out to Britney Rizzo. She brought me down some sourdough starter. She got it past Tsay and made three loaves. I mean, I don't think that they'd have a problem

It's like leaving you a pet. It's like, yeah, puppy.

It is yeah, I can't let it die. You're responsible for that now, uh huh, only worse.

Yeah, it's like a tamagachi. It's like more responsibility than the pets, than a puppy.

So it's just been sitting.

Here for now months and finally I'm like, I gotta do something with this, and I did. It took me three days for one loaf of bread. And I'm over here thinking I better not like this. This better be a flop, this better taste horrible because I can't commit to this kind of journey. Unfortunately, it turned out so well.

It was so.

Christy on the outside, smoogie on the inside, had all the holes that you would want in all the right places, fit butter perfectly. You know how I am with bread? Here, I am how you are with bread.

Making my own.

I think that it took three days because I'm new to this. I think it can take less than that, but still the recipe I'm using at best you're gonna have it's gonna take two days. But I am on my next loaf. I started my I did my I fed my starter yesterday. This is things you don't want to know. This is you talking to me about mutual fund. So here you're here for it. You're stuck with me.

Bulking, it was cutting, and now it's bulking.

By ten pm tonight it's gonna be ready to be shaped. I'm gonna shape her. Then I'm gonna put her in the fridge overnight, and then tomorrow i'll be able to I'll be able to bake her, put her in the oven. So Tuesday we fed the starter. By Thursday evening we'll have a loaf of bread. And you know what, you can complain all you want about five dollar loaves of bread. And this is why I mean, yeah, I should just pay the five dollars. But here I am because I got starter or a discard TBD.

Yeah, I mean cool.

I also have to I have similar to a sour Dough starter.

I have children.

I must feed them, and I don't cut them, but I definitely bulk them and have to shape them.

Right.

You gotta get the time in just right, yep.

And then eighteen years later you have a fully formed adult.

Uh huh, and just like sourdough, none of it actually saved you money. Nope, I'm I'm at just like qualk level five. I think I'm at like Sourdough level twelve right now. Yeah?

Wow, Well, there you have it. Similar, similar life stages