Three of us are all entrepreneurs and successful entrepreneurs know how to listen to their customers. And I think so a lot of our programming, just like yours, bubbles up from the community.
You know, we've had people come in and talk about kind of dismantling the gender stereotypes that exist in the business world.
We're doing a lot of different things, but a lot of the same things building our ecosystem. And it's inclusive and we're not having to work at it. It's just who we are.
Hello, and welcome to the Founder Shares podcast, brought to you by Hutchison, a law firm in Raleigh, North Carolina, that helps founders and entrepreneurs in technology and life science companies start up, operate, get funded, and exit. So whether you're already an entrepreneur or want to be one someday or are just fascinated by the stories of how a business goes from idea to success or
not such a success, this podcast is for you. It is a beautiful fall day in Downtown Durham, and we are coming to you live from the rooftop of the AMERICAN UNDERGROUND. Now, I feel like I've been saying it a lot lately, but today we're doing something a little different. We typically interview founders and investors about their entrepreneurial journeys, but today we're going to explore another linchpin of the startup ecosystem, coworking spaces. You can't start a business if you don't have a
place to do it. And so I'm very excited to be joined on the rooftop today by Allison Rogers of Blush Cowork, Carl Webb with Provident 1898 1898 and Tim Scales with AMERICAN UNDERGROUND. Thanks so much for coming out. Thank you. So tell us a little bit about yourself and about the coworking spaces that you represent. We'll start with you, Alison, just cause you're right next to me.
Okay. My name is Allison Rogers and I own Blush Cowork, which is a space in Cary, North Carolina. And it's a woman focused coworking space with onsite childcare.
Carl?
And I'm Carl Webb. I am the co-founder of Provident 1898. We are a shared workspace in Downtown Durham. This is a wonderful place to be in because this is my home. A native of Durham and that's a rare thing now in our region to find locals that actually stay around. Peter Cvelich is my partner. And Provident 1898 is built on the history and the legacy of Black Wall Street.
Tim.
My name is Tim Scales. I'm director of the AMERICAN UNDERGROUND, the rooftop that we're on right now, which is a beautiful space and also is right by the train tracks. So I assume we'll edit the train whistle out of the recording at some point. I have been with the AMERICAN UNDERGROUND for four years and was a member before that with my own startup for a couple of years. I've been in and around this community for about six years now. AMERICAN UNDERGROUND itself has been in Downtown
Durham since 2010. Originally very much focused as a tech hub and now has grown to be much more diverse in its membership types of businesses and larger community.
Well, I think that's a great segue because you've each touched on it just a little bit. But as you think about the organization you represent, what is your space's reason for being? What is it that kind of sets you apart or what's your focus and mission? Carl, I'll start with you.
Well... Provident 1898 has been around for a little over, about four and a half years. We started in April 2015, shortly after the big gas explosion that we had Downtown Durham. So my timing was absolutely great from a media standpoint. We had the governor, in town to cut the ribbon and all of that. But we also had so much press
going towards the tragedy of the explosion. I have had the fortune of being an entrepreneur for four decades, and being born and raised in Durham with this history and legacy of entrepreneurship and mutual aid and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, I've also been blessed to experience some success. And so I felt so confident that I thought I wanted to give back in a big way. So the big way was to start a coworking space. And we started out with a vision that was ginormous
and reality set in as we moved along. And we pare things back, but really at the core of it for me, it's really about giving back. It was a, it's kind of one of those moments where you recognize that because of the community, in order for the community to continue to be active and vibrant, you have to sow some seed. And so the idea of Provident 1898 1898 for me personally was, to give back, but also to elevate the history and the legacy of black entrepreneurship.
How about you Alison?
Well, our space is women focused and we have on-site child care, but that was really born of my own personal need. And, you know, over the last 10 years, when I had a business before and when I was having kids, I was always looking for coworking or childcare that was close to me and convenient where I didn't have to drive a long way. And just something that was right there.
And then during the pandemic, it really crystallized because I was not able to get anything done during the pandemic with a three-year-old in my lap. And I thought that I couldn't be the only person who was experiencing that. So that's really how Blush was born.
Okay, so tell us a little bit about kind of what the space looks like now, and has that changed much over the time?
No, I mean, I think that the vision I had for Blush and what's really come to be, is as far as what the space looks like, it's really been consistent. But the people that have been engaging with Blush, I really thought it would be a lot more remote workers coming out of the pandemic, but it has been like, you know, become a really vibrant entrepreneur community as well. So that's been a great surprise.
So Tim, how about you? You mentioned that AMERICAN UNDERGROUND has shifted focus a little bit, but tell us how you view the mission of AMERICAN UNDERGROUND right now and how it's changed.
Yeah, so we were founded very specifically to be a center of gravity for tech and tech entrepreneurship in Durham in 2010. And Durham in 2010 was very different than Durham in 2023 in a lot of different ways. You can hear the construction noise in the background that is testament to that. And to a large extent, that mission of drawing tech into
downtown has been successful in Durham. With the growth of Google offices and Meta and others within a few blocks of here, Durham shows up on the top 10 lists for tech hubs regularly through the collective effort of everyone that's been involved with the scene. And so with that, we have started to broaden what it means to be an AMERICAN UNDERGROUND member and what we provide to the community. And we've also seen some pandemic era shifts in who opts
into the community. A lot more remote workers, a lot more creatives, a lot more nonprofits, a lot of folks who are seeking. Community has always been key, but now community for many is the reason for joining. And the services and others that we provide are valuable to some. But really, it's they want to look for a place where they can make connections, feel a part of something, feel a part of Durham and grow themselves professionally or their business in whatever way that means to them.
I think that's an excellent point because I feel like when I look at all of your websites and review some of the materials associated with it, it always talks about community and building a specific community. How do you think about doing that? How are you intentional about building community into your co-working space? Because I can tell you having offices in close proximity alone does not create a community. So how do you go about approaching that?
It's so easy in my office because we have so much open space to really bring people together. But then it's also very easy for people to introduce themselves to each other because they're both taking their child into the child care or, you know, both in the kitchen at the same time. So in addition to that, I really try to forge those connections between people when we because everyone in my space seems to do something
slightly different. And they could all they're all looking for the other person at some point. So it's really easy. And then obviously through events and things like that, both through member events. And then events that are open to the public, we really try to create that community.
How about for you, Carl?
Yeah, I would agree. A lot of it for us is a programmed kind of effort, you know, monthly programs that we do. But we're in a historic building, the North Carolina Mutual Life Life Insurance Building that is an iconic landmark in Downtown Durham, represents a lot for black business and black enterprise. Throughout the whole country. The building was built in the mid-1960s. And it was always a place that was accessible to the general
public. For a lot of different reasons, auditorium, cafeteria, and it was a tourist destination for a lot of people coming to the area. So when we envision Provident 1898 and wanting to create this kind of community space, it was an imperative. That there would still be access to the space by the public, which has been kind of tricky because also you have some security issues with some of the members that you have that you want to protect.
And we were also fortunate when we launched that we had an excellent community manager that was really able to engage new members and visitors in a unique way just with his energy. And that helped us a lot. But because so much of this is about uplifting and building upon this legacy that we talk about of black entrepreneurship,
it sort of attracts a certain type of user. But what's interesting is that you would think, you know, Durham not really having a racial majority that in Durham it would be like 90% African American, black and brown kind of an experience. And what we found is that a lot of the ideas and messages that are important within entrepreneurship and business that these black founders back in the day used are effective for everyone. And there are lots of people that gravitate to this idea
of inclusion and we've benefited from that. So that's really caused us to have to think more deeply about the audience that we thought we were planning for versus the audience that shows up. And it's great from a community standpoint because the idea was to create places for people to collide, to create places where you felt safe asking dumb questions about issues of race, class, and gender. And this was also during the time that we had
a big bathroom flap going on. So we put gender neutral bathrooms in our facility specifically to try to say, hey, This is a place for everybody. So programming, member engagement through the staff that we have, and really not putting Provident 1898 1898 out front with our members, but really trying to look at the work that they're doing and elevating that. So from a programming standpoint, much of that experience actually flows through programmatic activities that our members are involved with.
That's great. Tim?
Yeah, I think the thing that the three of our spaces do so well that I see in Yale spaces and many of the independent and smaller co-working communities across country is that they really care about the people as people, the members as people. The members are not customers. They are not defined by their job titles. They are people sharing space. And it really starts with that, that when you walk into a space like one of these, the hope is that you are welcomed as a person
and everything that you are. And so a lot of what we do is built around exploring that edge of a professional community where we are also able to bring our full selves to work and be the people. And with all the weirdness maybe that we bring to that experience in the space, because it's through those moments where you drop a little bit of the everything is great professional veneer that you actually connect to people. And that's
important for everybody. And I think it's expressly important for entrepreneurs who are fed this narrative that you have to always give the impression that you are up and to the right. And speaking for myself, from when I was a member, the moments that I was able to be like, this is awful right now. This is one of the hardest days of my life professionally, or I'm just stuck and I feel like I'm going nowhere. It's in those moments that you need the community and those moments that
the community is there. And I think that's what I'm trying to do. The community has the opportunity to step up for you in a way that they can't if they don't know that's there. So bringing that all back, knowing the people, caring about the people at the core is what we build the foundation of community on.
Well, and I think you touched on it a little bit earlier, but this idea that so much has changed in the workforce kind of in the last few years and people have pulled back from community and are now seeking out community again in kind
of different ways. I open up to everybody like how do you see that reflected in your spaces and the companies that are coming to you how do you see that in the way that people are choosing either to be a part of your space or those that are choosing not to, and they're just working from home.
It really is because of two years of the pandemic and just not being able to engage. The program side of what we do is booming. I mean, it does well. We still have a tough time competing against you know, the kitchen table and the great coffee that you can have at home and the pajamas that you can wear. At home, but what we're finding is that people are interested in connecting, so they're coming out at times when they don't have as much work to do, but they want to hang out.
Right. And so the design and the feel of the space has to change to be a lot more casual for that to happen. We also, which is funny, we have members that... Community is not a big deal for them. As a matter of fact, just leave us alone. And we don't have a very large tech population, which is interesting. And the organizations that we do have, they tend to be, you know, into what they're into and engage on a very, very limited
basis. So that's kind of interesting. Nonprofits, on the other hand, they're just, you know, it's all about engagement.
I would say that the smoothest transition I have from someone trying out the space, becoming a member is if they had a child during the pandemic and they, they, maybe they have a great home office and maybe they have, you know, a great childcare available at home, but there's just something that's not working about that. But there are all kinds of reasons for people to be there, whether they're, you know, they need to take a meeting
and they don't want to. Have someone like tromp through their whole house up to the third floor to their nice home office. Or, you know, they're bringing together people, you know, a team that all work remotely, but they want to work together. Or, you know, obviously, like they they're just like, I can't do any work if I can hear my my child crying. So there's all different reasons for for people to come out.
I'd say there's definitely a mental health component to having a co-working membership for a lot of people. I had that conversation very explicitly with someone yesterday who said, my membership fee, I think of that as a mental health investment. Because it is very easy if you are an introverted person and you work from home, it is very easy to suddenly find that you have not had much human engagement and sometimes you
need more. Or if you're a very extroverted person, you're just not getting what you need during the day and being around a space with other people. People, even if you're not directly interacting with them, can feel changing to your day and open up some new levels of focus and creativity or
whatever it is that you're looking for. So I think that's an element that I had not thought of initially in this role, but now has become increasingly common, I think, as folks are settling into the long haul of hybrid work.
Yeah, and I think we probably touched on this a little bit kind of in all of this conversation, but if I'm a young founder or I have a startup or I'm an established company even, what would you say to them? Why should you come here and work in this co-working space versus working remotely or seeking out traditional lease opportunities? I don't want to say sell it to me, but what is the drive?
I think for my members, especially the ones who have come as a team and have you know, like maybe some private offices, but they're able to gather with their team. They really find that they can be more productive as a team. Just in the past year and a half that I've been open, I've seen people really grow from that. And I mean, I think that's huge, because not everyone can be really their best, most productive self
in their home office, just kind of siloed. I mean, I know it was true for me, certainly, But I have at least a dozen stories just like that coming out of my space where people were like, No, we're all together and now we're growing and it's made a huge difference to the way we work.
And I guess to the financial side of it all, when you look at a lot of the early stage businesses that we have within our community, the last thing they want to spend a lot of money on is space. And I'm also learning that they value space, but not... In the way that I value space as a person that's in real estate development. I'm thinking that it's the most important thing. It sort of sets the standard about how you're regarded in business. It legitimizes your efforts.
And all of that stuff is just not that interesting to founders early on. It's all about the bottom line, the ease of getting in a lease, getting out of a lease, just how much of the burn this space represents to them. And I'm also finding that a lot of times it's really about meeting spaces, conference rooms. It's about phone booths and the networking opportunity and being connected
to folks who have money. So it's really, the way that we sell it is, this is a low cost way for you to operate, for you to assemble your team, but also it gives you the ability to flex up when you need to, when you have additional space. The original vision that we had was starting sort of at the lower level of the building. And as organizations grew, we had additional space within the tower that would be more suitable for that growth. The world changed because of the pandemic.
Now space is just not, I don't care what industry you're in, it doesn't have the same kind of value in the way that it did.
Yeah, I think it's fair that anyone who's a member of the AMERICAN UNDERGROUND could work from anywhere and has no specific reason to come into the AMERICAN UNDERGROUND for the space side of things. I think the greatest benefit to a lot of folks, especially the early stage entrepreneurs, is at that point, you're doing so many different things. Your time is your most precious resource.
And it's very easy as an entrepreneur to spend time in the wrong places or spend time trying to solve problems that other people have solved. And being able within this context to post on our Slack channel and say, hey, I have a question about setting up my Google Ads account. That's something that could take you eight hours of researching and trying to get Google info or 20 minutes with someone who does this every day and can just set
you on the right track from the start. Or they have a business law question and they're trying to figure out which law firm. They can actually just raise their hand here and we'll say, well, Hutchison was here last week. So why don't you talk to them first? So moments like that, that just save you those hours that you could spend Googling or looking at reviews or spinning your wheels or just getting discouraged. You can really short circuit those by being a part of a broader
network. And you don't have to build that network in a coworking community. You just walk right into it and you become a part of it. And so the speed and the time is a huge benefit for both of us. Thanks for watching, folks.
So I'm going to ask a question that's shifting a little bit here, but What role do you see co-working spaces have in kind of increasing representation in entrepreneurship? I mean, is that a function of these different spaces? And talk to that a little bit. I think we'll start with Tim this time.
That should be a function of any entrepreneur-serving organization, regardless of your business model. I think any entrepreneur-focused organization that is not also heavily considering the diversity of their constituents is on the wrong side of history. I think that it's key to everything we do. There's a few key things that we do. We have our annual Black Founders Exchange, which has been a long-standing partnership with Google for Startups that brings in 10 black-led startups
for an intensive week. That's a flagship program that happens once a year. We can't stop at something that happens once a year, so we try to build that into everything we do. A lot of that means who we bring in as speakers, who we put in the front of the room, who we provide as resources and office
hours and workshops. Ensuring that there is representation in the programming allows folks of color or women who walk into the space to see examples of success or stories of vulnerability from other organizations. We can't just sit in the room and feel immediately like, this is a space that wants me to be a part of it. I think sometimes we do that really well. Sometimes we have growth in that area, and it's something that we're continually working on.
Carl? Yeah. The thing that was really important to us is making sure that folks knew that we saw them. We believe that representation really matters. You know as an African-American business person whether or not an organization or a restaurant or a space or place really had you in mind when they designed and pulled their business together. You know, it starts with the people that you see in the space, obviously, but it starts with the music that you hear. It starts with the paintings
that you see on the wall. It starts with the story and the history and the sensitivity around how you connect and engage. And those were things that are and were at the core of the founding of Providence in 1898, The name Provident 1898 comes from the original name of North Carolina Mutual Life Life Insurance. It was North Carolina Mutual Life and Provident 1898 Association. and they
were founded in the year of 1898. That was really significant on a number of levels because that was a very crazy time in North Carolina history. In Wilmington, North Carolina, for instance, we had the first coup d'etat that we had in this country where black government was overthrown by white extremists, and it was partly due to
business. It was a black publishing company, white publishing company, the Daniels family, and it was some competition going on along with some fusion politics where folks were actually coming together, and that was not welcome. But in that same year, while this destruction is going on in Wilmington, North Carolina, business people, Merrick Morris Spaulding... They're coming together creating a business. They're innovating. They're
doing something positive. Well, that becomes the foundation of the story that we want to tell about how we can, no matter what kind of drama and crisis may be happening around us, but we can come up with better ideas. So when you come into Provident 1898, you see artwork that's representative of, the people that, make up our community. And a lot of times these are underrepresented folks. You hear music that you will not hear in Starbucks.
And you see people presenting themselves in ways that, you know, in some places they may get arrested. But, you know, the whole idea is making sure that we had the right kind of representation, that we anchored ourselves to the history, that we want to tell a story that's over 120 years old. And you feel like someone thought about me and wanted me there. But again, what we have found. My partner, you know, For those who can't see me, I'm an African-American guy. My partner's
white guy. And that synergy that we have, these stories, they work irrespective of what your racial or ethnic background is. And that's the cool thing about it. But it's got to be intentional and it can't be a special program. The George Floyd thing brought a whole lot of attention, brought a whole lot of allyship that we had. But, you know, it's just got to be a part of your DNA. And that's what it is for Providence.
How do you think about it, Alison?
Well, inclusion is really, it's baked into our space. And I know we... I talk a lot about it being a woman-focused space, but at the core, our core values are, you know, to provide a space free from hate and harassment and to accept everybody. But I still get the question a lot, are men allowed? And of course they are. Everyone is allowed, regardless of their gender identity or their sexuality or their race or ethnic background.
I mean, that's right up on our wall. And it's a pledge to uphold those values is written into our membership agreement. So that's something that's very important to me and therefore very important to Blush.
And talk a little bit about the programming that comes in to support this idea and this mentality of what your focus is for your community. How do you go about kind of identifying the programming that you want to bring into your community? How do you identify the best way to support your community members through their specific needs and not be... I guess reactive, but also just kind of forward thinking with that programming.
I've had the luck of being able to, you know, I have a diverse membership and they've come to me with some great ideas. And then we've tapped into some other groups, either through, you know, sometimes it's through them renting the space for private use. And I've been able to meet a lot of people And we're still small enough that they just come directly to me with their ideas. And so we have kind of four key different
event types. And one of them is really dedicated to being more of a serious conversation that's prepared. Around, um, We had one that was, that was all around anti-racist resources. You know, we've had people come in and talk about, kind of dismantling the gender stereotypes that exist in the business world. And programming like that. I've just been able to tap into the great network that's been built and to create those programs.
Well, Carl, you mentioned something similar that you see a lot of it being community driven and kind of coming up from the bottom.
Yeah, we've had some cool stuff that we've been able to do. And a lot of it, again, happens with the members. Forward Cities is one of the members of Provident 1898, and they were successful in getting an SBA grant that allowed them to create this E3 Durham initiative. And so it's a hub and spoke model, and they have several other organizations. Knox Street Studios would be one of them, North Carolina Central, Durham Tech, Provident 1898,
and I'm leaving a few out. And that gives us an opportunity on a monthly basis to have a program that is set up to meet the needs of entrepreneurs in Durham County, providing technical assistance, providing an opportunity. For them to network and connect to capital. We're also fortunate in that we have NC IDEA as one of our anchor tenants in the space. And so the programming that they do around their grant cycles, the information that they provide, a lot of that programming actually
happens out of the space as well. Because of art being art forward, we do this initiative called These Artist Talks, Meet the Artist. So that has been a regular part of the programming that we've done as well. We've had some strategic alliances with 21c Museum Hotel, for instance. We've done a joint exhibition with them where half of the show is at Provident 1898 and the other half is
at 21C. Obviously, the benefit there is that we get exposure to the patrons of 21C, and 21C gets the opportunity to put their brand in front of our members. So that's been very, very successful. We did a similar project with the Museum of Durham History, where they were focused on Floyd McKissick Sr., who was the founder of Soul City, NC in Warrenton,
North Carolina. This was a guy who, back in the 60s, was actually building a whole town that was about the black experience, but not just for black people. Civil rights leader, pastor, politician, entrepreneur. Well, that show... Was at the Museum of Durham History. Now we have that within our, we have that show within our space, and it gives
us a chance to talk about black capitalism. So we just recently welcomed Lonewell and Bernard Worthy and his team, and so when we start talking about issues of closing the wealth gap and the financial challenges that minority businesses, have, we have some of these trailblazers from the past that we can elevate to understand what they did to get over those barriers. Those are strategic alliances that we have.
That's great.
Them.
Yeah, I think the three of us are all entrepreneurs and successful entrepreneurs know how to listen to their customers. And I think so a lot of our programming, just like yours, bubbles up from the From the community, we're running a book club right now. A member, Katie Rudy, came and said she wanted to read this book, In Five Languages Of Appreciation the The Workplace, and could she make a book club about it? And we almost always will say yes to whatever a member brings to us,
because why not? So we brought a few copies of the book, and she's been running that, and so that becomes an AU program led by a member and really from the community. We also try to stay a little bit ahead of what people are asking about to try new things and sort of push the market for programs or whatever in the community. Part of our culture is just, I think I mentioned weird earlier, we try to allow space for the weird and
the quirky and the personal. And so a lot of our events are really based around how do we get people in one room engaging in some sort of activity together, which allows them to forget their business for a minute and focus on being people. We had one of our members let an Indian dance performance. We brought in a guy named the Chocolate, a botanist to do a plant propagation workshop, things where people can get their bodies into it or get their
hands dirty or something. And it's easy to be like, well, how does that benefit you as an entrepreneur? What business skills are you learning from propagating a mint plant workshop? But at the same time, that part is valuable. That educational component is valuable. And also the connections and the people and the network are valuable. So we try to sort of encompass both sides of that spectrum.
Yeah, sometimes it's so much easier to connect with a person over something completely unwork-related.
The last thing I want to do is make small talk with a glass of wine. But if I can, I don't know.
If you can do it over a mint plant, it's so much better.
So different.
But wine and food, that's a big deal. It is true.
It is key.
I will not discount the benefits of the wine and hors d'oeuvres.
So I'm going to ask this question. I'm not going to put any contours around it, but what is one of your favorite stories coming out of your community? Like the story you think about just makes you smile kind of regardless of where you're at. I'm going to leave it open. You guys can jump on it.
There's too many. When I think about stories of members within the space. I think about Tiny Earth Toys, which is a startup led by Rachael Classi, who's a serial entrepreneur, has been around the startup scene for a while here. Her business model was rentals of sustainable toys. And it started in her bedroom, and she landed in a small office here. And then she grew to a larger office here, and she was trying to build a warehousing facility out of an office-based
co-working space. And it just showed the creativity and the scrappiness of entrepreneurs in general. It showed the adaptability of our community and how we could rally behind an entrepreneur that was building something. And she has moved on. She has her own warehouse, and that is very much a success story for us as well. We're always sad to see folks go, but if they're going because they have outgrown the need for our space and our community, then it's a great moment as well.
So watching the growth of that company through the AU community. And how she adapted what she was doing and we adapted together was a fun experience for everybody.
My favorite story that's come out of my space is that I had a woman who came in just temporarily. She was in a private office. While her home office was being renovated and she had no plans to stay. But she was an engineer, an
executive, she works for a company. On the West Coast, but she felt so good in the space and so inspired and creative in the space, these are her words, that she decided to start a business and so she started a videography business and makes incredible videos and she did stay and she is working now on leaving her day job, her very lucrative day job, and working towards just continuing with her own business.
So for me, it's truly too many. I mean, because with this being a passion project for me and wanting to give back, and to actually sit in there cost me a ton of money, and I'm not making any, but I feel good about myself. And that's really important because I watch video clips and marketing reels, and I see our space all over the place, and I'm going, man, it's like, is that
person a member? How is it that the space is beautiful enough, attractive enough that people actually want to use it It's cool when you see families come to just sort of hang out and take a look at the space. That's super gratifying. There's also, there are two things that was really important, and that's elevating and preserving the history
and legacy of Black Wall Street. And through work that Fay Horwitt is doing through Black Wall Street Forward, they have been able to get Truist to support their efforts to do Black Wall Street initiatives throughout the entire state. Well, I think it's like six different areas now in the southeast that they're doing it. And they're actually taking the stories of all of these folks in Durham. Throughout the Southeast region of the country.
And that happened through the inspiration of what we were doing at Provident 1898, and that was
super duper gratifying. And then we have another member who used to be the chief financial, I mean, the chief, legal officer of North Carolina Mutual Life, He now runs a youth mentor program for high school seniors and freshmen in surrounding schools that, you know, you see 15 well-dressed, young black men every other weekend walking in and out of the building that the guy who runs this program, the chief legal counsel guy, his great-grandfather was one of the founders of the company. I mean,
It's not as good as money, but it's close. So I'm really gratified to know that at the end of the day, I'm paying it forward. I'm giving back. And, you know, I've not said this publicly, but a lot of the inspiration for even believing that we could do something like this sort of came from American tobacco. It came from, you know, MICHAEL GOODMAN and prior to Michael, his dad's big vision, And then Mike Hill, who was one of the early, developers at American Tobacco, And It's really,
it sort of set the bar. And what's cool about being on this panel is realizing that we You know, we're doing a lot of different things, but a lot of the same things, building our ecosystem. And it's inclusive. And we're not having to work at it. It's just who we are.
So this whole podcast should have just been this. You're just like, keep telling me good stories. I've been smiling over here the whole time. Let's touch on that a little bit because you're kind of talking about how y'all are working towards, in many respects, the same common goal. How do you think we're doing as a community in the triangle here, fostering entrepreneurship? What do you see as some of the challenges for that? For entrepreneurs who are trying to get started here in the triangle.
I think funding is a really huge challenge. I mean, I think that there is so much potential and there's a great community as far as connecting entrepreneurs to each other, whether like broadly or in, you know, in certain categories or interests. I mean, this is me speaking personally, too, but access to funding, I think, has not caught up with all the great potential that we have here. Yeah.
I think you're absolutely right. I think that's what you'll hear directly from the entrepreneurs consistently. I think the growth of the entrepreneurship community here over the past few years, past 10 years, has been remarkable. And I think it has still stayed a very close and supportive and non-competitive, in a good way, community. A very supportive network to be a part of. I think those are assets that we have. I think it is growing rapidly and that
rapid change can be a risky time as well. And so I think there's a lot of players in place, ourselves included, and others who are working to maintain that culture of collaboration within the ecosystem, even as the triangle and the surrounding region evolves so quickly. I think that a lot of the time it does come back to high risk capital, folks that are willing to invest in the earliest
stage companies. There's a few NC IDEA and a few of the local firms, VC firms, who have been carrying that for a long time, and there's room for growth in that area.
Yeah, I would agree. I think, you know, funding is a challenge, but I think also... Making sure that we engage more people. We need to sort of demystify entrepreneurship. And if you don't have a tech inspired business, you somehow don't see yourself in this market as a part of the entrepreneurial ecosystem. And you very much are a part of that. So we need to sort of break down some of those barriers. And, you know, there's this sense of
lack at different times. You know, we don't fully appreciate that we have enough of everything in our community. We just need to figure out a different way to deal with distribution of those resources. There seems to be a great imbalance between the haves and the have-nots on every level. And so I think part of that is the work that we do collectively around engagement. And giving people the opportunity
to talk to one another. To forge relationships that go beyond just money, Money is important, but those relationships and inclusion, I think is just as important. But you gotta believe that there's enough for everyone as opposed to, you know, I got to get mine at your expense.
Now, are you seeing those success stories, the people coming out of your community that have a great success, are they coming back to invest kind of in your community, in the companies that come back? Do you see those kind of return players?
I don't think my community is old enough to really have that story yet, but here's hoping.
I think within the tech community, we've seen some really strong examples of that. I think the folks in the tech world will be familiar with the Tweener Fund and the Tweener List and Scott Wingo's work in that area of rallying the growth stage entrepreneurs and those who've exited to invest back into the ecosystem. I think, Carl, you were spot on that there's many people in the triangle who are entrepreneurs who do not consider themselves part of that startup ecosystem, the
tech ecosystem. And so I think within that world, there are some great examples. I think we haven't had a lot of, you call them exits in the startup world, where folks sell for millions or billions and have those resources then to put back into the community. I think Bill Spruill is a recent example of someone who has and whose company exit made something like 25 millionaires in the region who have been putting capital back into the early
stage entrepreneurship ecosystem. So I think there is that story, but that positive feedback loop takes... Years or decades to grow. And so we're still building that.
So it's a story yet to come. It's coming. Exactly.
Yep. But I do think that you see where it may not always be money, you see a lot of human capital and resources that are being brought to bear. We also have Resilient Ventures,, which is a small fund, and they are doing tremendous work and specifically targeting some of these same groups that are important to us. Bill Spruill has been in the space quite a bit as well, looking for ways to be supportive. The Rural Center, through their NC Invest initiative, they've been involved.
And what I'm also realizing is that there's a category of businesses that are business that is really too small to take advantage of some of the resources that exist. So I think, again, there's a need to try to convince the funder, to convince some of these smaller organizations to come together so that they can receive the kind of investment that it really needs. And that really allows them to scale.
We're coming up on our time here and we are the Founder Shares podcast and you all are founders. I always like to ask our guests, if you could share one piece of advice with someone who's thinking about starting a company or who's in the middle of that experience, what would that piece of advice be?
I would say, So you frame that as people who are thinking about starting a business, one category. I think it's very easy to get stuck in the step of thinking about it and being in your own head and maybe doing your own Google research and maybe mapping out a business plan in a vacuum. And you can go for years with never testing that idea. Or you can feel like, if I say yes to this, I have to sink money and time and resources and I have to make it a big success
right away. I think I would just say take that first step. Start talking about your idea. Start talking to people that care about you, but also people that don't know you and people who will give you real feedback and who will not just tell you that they love it, but will also help you understand if what you have is viable. And you can't get that feedback if you're just thinking. Okay.
I think entrepreneurship at times can be overrated. It is just not as financially lucrative at times as the images that you see through, especially social media and your friends. We get. In this performative kind of a mode where we talk it up. And we go home and we eat saltines. And we try to explain to our significant other that, hey, just hold on, this is gonna be, this is gonna work. I think that you need to understand yourself and whether or not you can really fight against
all of the pressures to tell you to quit. And if you have skills that make it easy for you to get a job, then sometimes that becomes a crutch. You don't feel like you absolutely have to make this work or you're not going to eat. I'll just go get a job. Personally, I tend not to do well with those type of entrepreneurs because for me, it's sink or swim. The other thing that I would say at this stage of the game after 40 years in,
is really... Plan for the future and you're going to probably have seasons that are going to be drier and not as exciting and prosperous and tons of money than what you actually realize. So stash away as much as you can, keep as much dry powder as you can because you're going to need it one day.
I'll see you, Alison.
I would say seek out the people that can work with you, collaborate with you, help you, give you advice, and kind of make your way to your minimum viable product rather than kind of going both feet in. And sometimes a great way to do that is at a coworking space. That's my little plug. But I would say just talk to people about it, kind of like what Tim said. Don't keep it to yourself. Talk to people about it. Talk
to people who are going to doubt it. Talk to people who are going to poke holes in it and really develop that before you. Just full on take the plunge.
Appreciate it. Thanks so much for the wisdom and advice. Thank you all for coming out tonight and for participating here and just encourage everybody who's in need of community, looking to start a business and wants to get around like-minded people. We've got some great opportunities and great resources here. So thank you all for coming out.
Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Founder Shares podcast. If you're a founder or business owner and need legal advice, be sure to check out our team at HutchLaw.com. That's HutchLaw.com. We have the capacity to help you out with just about any legal need your company may be facing. We're passionate about the innovation economy and ready to help you on your entrepreneurial journey. The show was edited and produced by Earfluence.
I'm Trevor Schmidt, and thanks for listening to the Founder Shares podcast.
Thank you.