Lori: Hello and welcome to Fine Is a 4-Letter Word. My guest today is Judy Henderson and Judy has the most amazing, incredible story you have not heard ever before on our show. Welcome, Judy.
Judy: Thank you so much, Lori. It's such a pleasure and an honor to be here. Thank you for having me.
Lori: We had such a great conversation in our pre-show conversation. It's almost like we should have recorded that, but that's okay. We will recreate an amazing conversation here. And I want to start out talking about your childhood and your background. Like what were the values and beliefs that you were raised with that contributed to you becoming who you became?
Judy: Well, I'm the oldest of eight children. We did, I do have a step sister, you know, now. So there's actually nine of us. And we were a close family. All my grandparents, aunts, uncles, we're all close families. Nobody ever incarcerated. We just lived a normal life other than back in those days.
If there was dysfunction in the family, it stayed in the family. It wasn't talked about outside. You don't air any dirty laundry. So my mother was also a battered woman, and the police would not be called. They didn't want to be involved. So that was the era back then. But I did have some cases during my childhood, which are in the book, When the Light Finds Us that talk about my sexual abuses with different characters that led me to thinking that there was something wrong with me. There was something wrong with me. How does this happen to me?
The path that I chose growing up, we had a Pentecostal type belief, so it was very restrictive. I didn't start dating until I was 18. So we dressed a certain way, had certain customs and things that and all that's in the book. So we had to, but we were still close knit. We still loved each other. We still supported each other. And during my whole incarceration, my family was there to visit all the time. I still have their support.
Lori: Yeah, so you're jumping ahead a little bit, because I don't want to talk. No, no, this is no, no, no, it's all good. This is part of the I was trying to build the suspense. That's all I was going to get. No, no, no, we're going to go with it. But it's because this is part of your story. But I just wanted to get that early part to kind of set things up of how you, know, what you how you were raised, what your childhood was like, because, yeah.
Judy: Well, like I said in my younger years, it was pretty religious and I had to dress a certain way to go to school and wasn't really conducive to what the style was at that time.
Lori: Yeah, and as the oldest of eight, I mean, you felt like you had a responsibility to take care of the rest of the kids too, right?
Judy: I did, I did, I absolutely did. And my mother and I were close. My mother had three children, then she waited five years to have five more. And so I was the oldest and the caretaker and giver of the younger five because the other two children were brothers. I had two brothers, so I was the only girl in the older group. So, of course, there I was, know, giving baths and changing diapers and ironing clothes, ironing pillowcases and sheets, which we don't do nowadays.
But I grew up in a very clean, modern home. We couldn't wear shoes in the house, not even the preacher. So my mother was very picky about how we looked, about how the home looked. But she did also work outside the home. And my father, he worked.
Lori: She did, wow, okay. Because that's unusual for that time as well, right? Yeah.
Judy: Yeah, yes, yes. But my mother was always a go-getter. She was always busy, always stayed occupied doing something besides making babies. And she liked to work, you know, and I think that's where I get it because I love to work and always have. so whenever I met my husband, I was young.
He was the first boy I dated and I ended up marrying him and we had two children and then that 12 year marriage did not go well.
Lori: Yeah, and at the time, did you think, so, all right, well, first of all, I need to mention, because you already mentioned that you have this book coming out, which is incredible. And I'm so honored to talk to you. And I have to say, this was the hardest book I've ever read. Like the hardest book to get through because of all of the things that we're going to talk about today that you've lived through.
I mean, it's really a remarkable testament to the human spirit. And I want to talk about some of the things that you've been through as well. And I have some questions, but tell me the name. I tell my listeners again, the name of the book, because I want them to go and order it as a pre-order because when is it publishing? it in June, April or June? Okay. Yeah. And it's, what's the name of it?
Judy: April the 15th is the release date. When the light finds us from a life sentence to a life transformed.
Lori: Yes, so, okay, so going back now, so you were married for 12 years to someone who didn't exactly treat you very kindly, but that's part of what you grew up knowing, right? So that was familiar to you.
Judy: Exactly, yes. It was learned behavior, yes. I just thought that's how families were. When we spoke to, you know, when my mother told me years later when they spoke to the minister, it was, well, you just need to pray about it, you know, and stay together. You don't get a divorce. And so, yes, back in that generation, that's what they believed and that's how they stayed.
Lori: Yeah. And you had some incidents where police were called and they did nothing for domestic violence.
Judy: Correct. Correct. Correct. Yes, they just told him to go cool off and they told me he'll be back.
Lori: See, this is where I wrote down this question of, or this comment about in reading the book, it felt like everyone who was supposed to protect you or who could have protected you, starting from when you were a kid in school and they saw the bruises, they didn't.
Judy: No, they did not. No, they did not. And I don't even know if they had, because back then they didn't even have the battered women syndrome. That wasn't even a term. There wasn't even a definition for what was going on. So I don't even know if they had any children's services where they reported things such as that. I don't know.
Lori: Wow. It just, yeah. Yeah, it just seemed like it was such a, like so obvious to me that looking back, like where all of these places, it to me felt like they failed you. But as I read further, and we'll get into this, that that may have been part of the the process that you had to go through or the experiences you had to go to to get to where you are today, which is 100 and 1000 % transformation. But at the time, and this is why it was so hard for me to read the book because of all of these places that I thought, my gosh, why isn't somebody doing something?
Judy: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I didn't think anybody could do anything. I didn't think it was anybody within anybody else's power because yeah, because that was like I said behind closed doors except for them speaking with the minister about divorcing. So I didn't think there was any help. I thought it was just normal. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's why when I was married, I thought, well, I can't get a divorce.
You know, my mother was still married to my father after I left and this is, you know, what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to stay with your husband no matter what, you know, he'll change, he'll get better. Maybe you should quit smiling because that's one thing he used to tell me, you smile too much. You know, why are you always smiling?
Judy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he said, you're always friendly. You like everybody. And I thought to myself, aren't you supposed to like everybody? You know, aren't you supposed to smile and be happy? so that was, you know, those were all red signs that I knew nothing about. Didn't know anything about any of that terminology or signs or phases that battered women go through.
Lori: Yeah, what was the turning point where you said, okay, 12 years after 12 years, like what was the thing that made you say no more, I'm done?
Judy: I'll tell you what, it was the time whenever my husband knocked me through the glass door and our daughter went running out of the house down the street after I came home from the Royals game. I went with a friend of mine that had tickets and it was a rainy night so it would stop and start, stop and start, you know, the game. And so I got home, probably around 11 or something and he was drunk and he wanted to know where I'd been, who I'd been with. I know you weren't at no Royals baseball game, you know. And I got beat up that night. He knocked me through the glass door window, or glass door, and our daughter went running down the street and I thought, this has to stop. I don't want her living like this. You know, this is doing more harm to the children than anybody in this family.
And so that did it. That did it. I just had the courage because she was scared to death.
Lori: Yeah, and so it was more for them than for yourself, which happens a lot, right? People take actions in, what's the word I'm looking for? Like trying to protect or in, for other people instead of for themselves. Yeah.
Judy: We become caretakers for other people instead of trying to help us. We are secondary. And so it was for them. And then the crazy thing about it, Lori, is when I really had the courage to do it, and I always kept in the forefront of my mind, it's for Angel, it's for Chip. They cannot live like this. They deserve better.
Judy: After I left and moved out of that city, which my psychiatrist told me to do after I attempted suicide, I took my son, three-year-old son, to the garage and just wept. Just wept because he didn't have a father. And I thought, what kind of a mother does this? What kind of a mother leaves my son without a father?
You know, and it was heartbreaking. I was torn.
Lori: Yeah, not thinking, well, it better he not have a father figure than have this really kind of a monster.
Judy: Right? Yeah, yeah, it was crazy. Our brains are wired different when we go through so much abuse and you don't see any way out or nobody to help you because that's the same night that the police were called and they told him just go cool off, know, sober up and then come back. So I thought, no, this is just escalating. It's getting worse.
Lori: I'm glad you brought up the wiring part because I was gonna bring that up and now is as good a time as any. Because a lot of times people are like, from the outside, if you haven't been involved in a relationship like this, you look at the person, they look at you, Judy, and say, why don't you just leave? He's almost killed you and he's abusing your children and why don't you just leave? And they don't understand something that you said in the book that I've heard before but it really hit me when I read it, is that your brain is differently from trauma and abuse.
Judy: Yes, it is. It is. It definitely is. Your thinking isn't normal. You know, I mean, he beat me one time for fixing hot dogs for dinner, beat me with a hot pan. And I thought, well, I work five days a week, you know, I have a center for the children and I work at full time job and I come home and I fix a full dinner that he expected every night, bathe the children, put them in bed and it's like, why can't we have hot dogs? Just one night, you know, have hot dogs. And it was like, that's crazy thinking. Of course you can have hot, I look back now and I'm thinking, what was wrong with me? And it's like, that Stockholm syndrome, you know, you are just so caught up and conditioned. And I was conditioned for my co-defendant. I was ripe. I was what he was looking for.
Lori: So let's go into that part of the story now because you left this abusive marriage, you moved out, you took your children, you were building a new life, and you met this person.
Judy: Yes, yes, and he was a real estate broker, three-piece suit, very charismatic, very kind, very intelligent, had been in the ministry at one time. So I thought, okay, and I met him through somebody else I was dating, he was a friend of his, but we were just casually dating, nothing serious, whenever I moved down where my family was.
I didn't notice any red flags, any signs, you know, when we were at my aunt's for Fourth of July, she said, Judy, you know, her and I were in the pool and she said, why is he reading a book on manipulation?
And I said, well, Aunt Monda, I said, has big, you know, multimillion dollar properties that he's selling. So he has to understand and how to manipulate people, guess, to buy these, you know? I'm like, well, okay, that's the only thing I can think of. And didn't even think anything about it. But I, you know, I'll always remember her asking me that. And I thought about that years later after the situation that happened. I thought, oh my gosh, there was another sign and I missed it.
Lori: Right, well, in fairness, a lot of people miss a lot of signs that you don't see until hindsight 2020, right? Yeah. When you're in the moment, you don't necessarily see it.
Judy: No, and then when you're, okay, let me explain how a lot of people are addicted to drugs and alcohol. My addiction was love.
Lori: Hmm, because you hadn't gotten it.
Judy: Right, right. And I wanted it so badly. I wanted that little white picket fence around a yard and a loving husband and children and just do things, picnics, all that. And we did some picnics, you know, with my co-defendant and I. And so I thought, oh, this is great. My parents, my stepfather and my mother, because my mother did eventually get a divorce.
And to a great stepfather, Teddy Bear we called him and he was so loving and he she then I realized I could get a divorce you know my mom did it well I can because I don't have to stay trapped in this again so that's another little factor a little twist you know back then whenever I was getting ready to leave but they you know because of the kind of personality had, how he carried himself, how he was around me. They loved him too. They didn't see any signs. So he was very good at what he did.
Who in, okay, I don't even want to talk about that right now, but later about his trial, his jury.
Lori: Okay. Yeah. So, so how long were you in a relationship with him before he did like what perpetuated the ultimate manipulation, shall we say?
Judy: Right, right. Okay, so let me give you a little timeline. I was, I divorced my ex-husband in June. I met my, I was in the psychiatric ward in September and October for 30 days. I was released in October. I moved down to where my family was. In April, I met my co-defendant.
In July, the murder happened. So it was like just very quick, very quick, yes.
Lori: Okay, and you, I mean, as you're talking, you fell for him because you believed that he was giving you the white picket fence and the picnics and the family and the whole thing. He had you believing that he was that person who could deliver that to you. And let's layer on top of that, you were seeing your mom have that.
Judy: Yes, yes, exactly. She had already received that by divorcing, you know, my father. And very happy, very just ecstatic. They even wore the same color clothes together all the time. They were just cute. They were just a cute couple. And all of us siblings loved them.
Of course we honored our father because he was our father. We wanted a good life for him too and he came to live with me after their divorce because he was so distraught and I didn't know how well he would do and that did not turn out well either. So yeah.
Lori: I would imagine that it wouldn't. I'm surprised that you would open your house to him. But at the same time, I can understand how you would feel obligated to do that.
Judy: Right, I was and I was still a battered woman. I still had this same mindset. I'm a caretaker. I have to take care of him. I'm the oldest.
Lori: Right, right. And so you were in this relationship with the co-defendant and talk a little bit about how that whole scenario came to be. Because this is the pivotal point of your life.
Judy: Mm-hmm, yes it is. And that's whenever I came home from my, because I bought a tanning salon down in Springfield, right when they started becoming popular. And didn't have tanning beds then, those weren't introduced yet. I just can't imagine where I would be today if I stayed in that business. So I came home from work, picked my son up at the nursery, came home in June and I walked in the door and there were suitcases sitting there. thought, what is this? And around the corner walked Greg and he said, those are mine. He said, I decided to move in. I said, what?
I said, I don't have anybody living with us and my children, you know, with my children here. And he said, Judy, he said, you need me to take care of you and the kids. He said, I just want us to be a family unit. And of course, those magic words, those magic words. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And so that's what he did. And it spiraled into a situation that led me to a place I never thought I would be.
Lori: And that was, and we don't have to go into the whole story because I really do want people to read the book. But it ended with you, well, you can talk about where, pick up what you want, but you were in a situation that led you to be a defendant in a murder trial.
Judy: Correct, correct, yes, yes. And I guess another eye opener as things started unfolding with the trial, we had one attorney representing both of us, which was later I found out a serious conflict of interest. How can you defend one and defend the other when one of them are guilty?
And you know that. So what kind of defense are you going to give the one that is not guilty? And but later I found out that my co-defendant was just wanting us to have the same attorney so he could sit in on the meetings and know everything that was being said. He wanted to be sure that nothing was being targeted toward him being the perpetrator or anything that would cause him any damage for his defense.
And unbeknownst to me later I found out he was seeing two other criminal attorneys on the side that he hired after I was convicted.
Lori: Yeah, so here we are 20 something minutes into this conversation and we're getting to this turning point where we can reveal now that you were convicted of murder that you did not, oh yes, thank you, that you did not commit and you were sentenced to what?
Judy Life without parole for 50 years.
Lori: I am stunned because so many factors that were overlooked or not considered or just again, how many things went sideways for this to end up happening.
Judy: It did. A lot of things went sideways. My attorney couldn't put on defendants that would help me because it would hurt his other client, my co-defendant. So I had no defense. I really had no defense. He said I couldn't testify unless I came up with an alibi that I was with my mother shopping or something.
And I said, I'm not doing that. I'm not going to get on the stand and put my hand on the Bible. I was raised in a Christian home. I reverend that Bible, you know, and I was not going to do that. then have my mother also get on the stand to verify our alibi. I would never put my family through something like that ever. I didn't even want them to be involved in this horrible mess that was created, this horrible cause of somebody dying. This should have never happened to that person.
There were so many different factors and the prosecutor, he was young, he was running for prosecutor in the election. So they used my trial as leverage to be tough on crime, in the 80s, tough on crime. And yeah.
Lori: Yeah. Right. So many and so many things that happened after that that were so political that kept you in prison for those 36 years. just, you know, as I was reading too, I was thinking like, this is, I'm trying to put myself in somewhat similar situation. And it's almost like someone coming to your house and saying, we're arresting you for murder and you're like, but I didn't do anything. I, and so naturally the truth will come out and I will be set free.
And so I'm saying this because I want the listeners to put themselves in this situation. Someone comes to your house, arrests you, says you're putting your own child for murder and you're like, well, surely this is gonna end in my release and it doesn't. And you're like, wait a second, where is justice?
Judy: Right, right. Yeah, it was a long time coming, a long time coming, but I never gave up hope. I always knew, I always knew that I would be free.
Lori: What is the other miraculous part of your story is how 100 % you knew. You knew how it was going to eventually come, the truth was going to come out and you would be released. And it's reminding me right now as we're talking, I had a previous guest several episodes ago who was also in an abusive relationship and talking to her children about their father and that the truth will come out, the truth will come out, that's what she always told them, was the truth will come out. And eventually it did, which is what happened with your situation. There was another, so again, you spent 36 years of your life.
Judy: I spent more years in prison than I did in the free world.
Lori: Yeah, that's crazy. And yet at the same time, you manage to maintain a really close relationship with your children and your family. And again, it's remarkable how they believed in you, how they didn't buy into, because I'm sure it was a media circus.
Judy: It was, it was, they called me the happy killer because I smiled all the time. But you know, whenever you become a victim for so many years in so many different cases, smiling hides everything. You know, you have to make yourself smile to go on to survive. And that just became a mask, a mask to hide everything that was happening inside. so to, and it was trying to let my family know and my mother and everybody know, I've got this, I'm okay, I'm gonna be okay. Please just don't worry about it. Please don't worry about me. I'm strong, I can do this.
And my mother told me one time, she said, Judy, said, if anybody, you know, any of my children had to go through something like this, you're the one that would be able to make it. And I guess, I don't know. I don't know, you know, she thought I was as strong as her, I guess.
Lori: Yeah. Well, and you said on page 184, I highlighted it, that over the years, the thought became second nature. I'm fine. I got this.
Judy: It did, it did. It really did. That's why my writer, said, we've got to name a chapter. We've got to call a chapter this. I got this.
Lori: So it was inevitable that you would end up on my show.
Judy: Yeah. Right. Yes, you are so right. I love being here, Lori. I love being here.
Lori: It's when you first went into prison, mean, here's like any of my listeners coming off the street, having no background with anything to do with a prison system, you go in and like, what was that? I mean, you had to put on again this face that everything's fine because you're now among this population where you're completely foreign, but you can't show any fear.
Judy: Yes, no, because kindness, here's a term that they use in prison, kindness is weakness.
So they think you're weak if you're kind and you're polite and you smile. But I didn't know any other way to be. But they think you're fake, you're phony. She isn't really like this. And I would put on my makeup. And I had to have some part of me that I could bring with me from that world that I was taken from. And keeping myself up.
Fitness training, putting on my makeup, doing my hair, was a piece of, that's one piece they couldn't take from me. They could take my name and give me a number. They could take my clothes and give me a prison jumpsuit. But they couldn't take the things that made me who I was on the outside. Because on the inside, Lori, I didn't know who I was.
I did not know. I was what everybody else wanted me to be.
Lori: Right. That was, that's part of what got you into this situation. As you came to realize, what, again, it's just your whole story is so remarkable. What was it that inspired you or what was the spark that lit that fire that you said, I am going to do everything I can to improve myself for as long as I'm here? Because you did everything.
Judy: I did. I even trained dogs. I even got used to picking up snakes. I thought, come on King Kong, show me who you really are and I'm going to show you who I'm becoming.
Lori: Right, because you come in and you're basically like this scared little girl and you go through this incredible transformation to become like this warrior queen.
Judy: Right? Yes. Yes. And I first, I had to figure out why I was there. How did I, how did I get here? How does somebody get to prison when they haven't done anything to get here? And I thought, you know, I need therapy. I don't know what kind of therapy they have. I don't know what they do. But at this prison that I was sent to, they were more interested in giving you Thorazine or something to just knock you out. We called it the Thorazine shuffle where everybody was just holding their head down. They couldn't hardly hold it up and just shuffled around.
Lori: How did they decide who got the Thorazine?
Judy: Well, they wanted to give it to the ones that were doing the questioning of why do you have this rule? Why are you doing that? Why is that officer doing this to that inmate? And that's who I was. That's who I become. And we had a male officer that was doing things he shouldn't have been doing. And I had to confront that situation and take care of that. Even if it meant me going to solitary confinement, that individual could not remain in that prison.
Lori: Did they give you Thorazine?
Judy: They tried and I'm being honest to me, I didn't know because I didn't know the rules. I didn't know anything about what they could do and couldn't do. I would act like I took it and would put it in my locker because we had a metal locker. Not knowing or realizing, I was so stupid, that they could go in and search my stuff anytime, you know, and there it was. So in my first probably two maybe first five years of prison, think I ended up with 23 violations.
The whole incarceration and hold on a second and one of those was for drugs and it was because they found my medication. I said but those are my drugs. You gave them to me. Yeah I'm not doing drugs. You gave me the drugs to do and I refused to do them. So my attorney had to get a court order where they could not give them to me. Yeah and I went to the hole where they were giving me drugs. Yeah, it's all a tear. It is.
Lori: Wow, see this is where it's like a whole upside down world. It's just one example of many. And so, yeah.
Judy: It is and their terminology is so different and everything, know, everybody's mannerisms.
Lori: So you started therapy at that prison.
Judy: I did, but it wasn't conducive to any degree where I understood anything. I was still the same until we got a group coming in for battered women, for domestic violence. And I thought, well, what's a battered woman? I know, you know, I've been hit and all of this going on.
So Dr. Lenora Walker is the first psychologist that talked about the battered women's syndrome. And she was visiting this organization in St. Louis and she came to the prison with them and they wanted to start a group in the prison. And so I was invited by another offender to go and I thought that's not me. I'm not going to go do this, you know.
Girl, let me tell you, when I got there and they started talking about the different phases, the honeymoon phase, you know, all the different phases battered boy goes through because they'll beat you, then they'll bring you roses. You know, they'll beat you, they'll take you out to dinner. And all these different patterns, I thought, that's me. That is really me. And I thought, how many other women are like this?
You know, because we didn't really talk about it. And come to find out, I, yeah, and then I got the therapy. They ended up sending me to another prison in Arizona for four years. So that's where I got my therapy.
Lori: Right, which you thought, yeah, which in the book you talk about, like that was almost like my life is ending, like every step of the way you're like, my life is ending now, my life is ending now, like can it get worse? And then they take you away from Missouri and send you to Arizona so you're not even anywhere near your family so you can't see them on the regular basis anymore. And yet it's reminding me of that story about the caterpillar.
The caterpillar thinks its life is ending when it goes into the cocoon and it's really just being prepared to blossom.
Judy: Right, yeah, everything as I look back, I see all the pieces of the puzzle being put together to create the, excuse me, the final act of what's going to happen at the end of the 36 years.
Lori: So you go to Arizona had a different approach to rehabilitating prisoners.
Judy: Correct. Missouri is actually supposed to be a rehabilitation state, but at that time, not so much so. And Arizona was supposed to be a work state, but they had, but they're a very wealthy state. So they had a lot of funding to be able to do a lot of programs, a lot of college classes, just all kinds of therapy that you could want. I attended some children or adults molested as children groups where I started understanding more and more and more about how I came to prison, how I was conditioned, how, yes, yeah, yeah.
Lori: Mm-hmm. How you ended up in this situation. And there was a question that one of the therapists asked you. This pivotal question. What was that?
Judy: Gosh. yeah.
Lori: I don't want to put you on the spot, it was about what is your, how did you get here? What was your part in this?
Judy: Yeah, yeah. Yes, my part was loving somebody and not looking at the signs, being totally blind. But I had to realize too that I did play a part. I did play a part and I had to take ownership of that part, you know, and I had to, I, at the point where I was willing to write a letter to the victim's family and put myself in their shoes because it wasn't about me and what I was going through. It was about what they had to go through because of me being in that situation with somebody that caused that.
Lori: Yeah, I want to point out here that that question is so important whether you have been in a situation like yours or any other situation in anyone's life that you don't like or that isn't working to your advantage, isn't serving you. Asking yourself, what is my part in this?
Judy: Very true, Lori. You know, nobody ever thinks of that part. And when she asked me that, it was like, like this whole other door opened. And I said, wow, you know what? I have to make amends for that. You know?
Lori: Did it come to you that way or did you first go, well, I didn't have any part in this. I'm a victim. Okay. Okay. Cause it wasn't like just the skies parted and you went, Oh yeah, I see my part. Okay. I just want to. Yeah.
Judy: Yeah, no, yes, exactly. That's exactly what I did. That's exactly. And no, it took a while for me to come to grips with that. And that was very painful to have to walk through and see that victim's face and relive all of that.
Judy: To this day, there's certain shows I can watch, there's certain ones I cannot watch. But yeah, and being able to take that step to write that letter to them was very healing. And it took me to another level of my growth, and it does help you grow. You know, I don't know. The way we had to do it in prison is they had a victim's advocate.
And they had a certain department and you sent the letters to them in the Department of Corrections and they would forward it. They would read the letter. If they thought the letter had anything in it, know, making you look better to them and not giving all your empathy to the family, then they would not forward it. They would send it back to you and you'd have to rewrite it. They would notify the family then once they did accept a letter and see if the family wanted it and they did send my letter through the first time, but I never heard back anything. I don't know. I've never talked to them or seen them.
Lori: Yeah. You, there's so much detail in the book and I'm curious to know how you remembered all of that. Did you keep the journal?
Judy: It took six years. My writer and I, we did a lot of soul searching, a lot of talking through the years. And these things started coming back as we started discussing them because there's so much you try to forget, you know, about parts of your life that are painful and you don't want to talk about, you don't want to remember. So if I was going to do this book and try to help touch other people, because this book is for other people. And it's not for me, even though it was still a growing process for me as I continue through this, because the guilt I still carry for not being there for my children physically. The purpose of the book is to let others know, don't ever give up hope. know, don't ever do it. Don't give in, because you have more inside of you than you ever could ever imagine that you have. And go ahead.
Lori: Yeah, no, I just was going to say that you, was in reading it, was divine guidance. There's no other way this could have happened the way it happened for you. The way things lined up. So after I got through that first part of the book, that was so, so, so difficult for me to read that another human, no, no apology because it was, it was just hard to read that another human had gone through what you went through.
You know, it's hard to read that and know that that was not fiction. like, you know, they say truth is stranger than fiction. Like, you can't make this stuff up. And there was at one point I had to get up and go for a walk because I just couldn't keep reading. And then I came back and as you read further, that's where the light part comes in, right? Now you've gotten through some of those things. You've done the therapy. You've started doing the hard work.
Judy: Right, right. It's free. Butterflies are free.
Lori: And now, yes, that's right, that's right. And to not just free yourself, but to not even come back, because you're already there still, but to give back, to help lift others up. It wasn't just about improving yourself, because you did a lot of work, even when you were still in prison, to help people who were in there with you and who were which is another, just amazing that you had the ability to do that. And I think, you know, so the relevance here again is, you know, we're in a time in our society where people are looking around and going, I really can't believe this is happening. Like, and feeling helpless to do anything.
Your story is an example of how one person, one person, can make such a difference in a situation where you are looking around your circumstances going, my gosh, how did I get here? There's nothing I can do, but there was something that you could do. And you as one person made some major changes. Like talk about the changes, the fact that this law about the attorneys can't represent, battered women syndrome and that the attorneys can't represent. Yeah, you did that.
Judy: Conflict of interest. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Because they the judges said that there was a serious conflict of interest. But if they overturned my case financially, it would affect so many other cases that they couldn't afford to to overturn my case. And because others would use that my case to get their sentences overturned.
No longer can any attorney represent two defendants on a case. So that was good. And then the battered women's syndrome law that abused women can now use as a defense if they kill their abuser.
That was something that had never been done in Missouri before where senators and state reps came into a prison and held legislative hearings. So I, myself and some other women got together, I helped them write their stories and we testified for this bill and it became law.
So, and we're getting ready to do a survivors bill for those people that are incarcerated and have these sentences, but in their life, they were abused or they have PTSD or any kind of abuse. they can, you know, prove it by medical records, eyewitnesses, police reports, anything, then they would be able to petition the courts for a lesser sentence.
So to help these individuals get out of prison, a place where they do not belong just because they were victims themselves. And so we're working on that as I speak.
Lori: Those are two, three monumental things that you did. Like because of you, one person started this. And certainly you didn't do it by yourself, but you were the inspiration or the instigator if you want. It sounds like a good word for you anyway, right? Right, right, exactly.
Judy: Yeah, it does. That's what the prison system thought I was an instigator. They couldn't see anything positive in it. Yes, we are.
Lori: Well, here we are turning it. yeah. Yeah. So again, you know, for people who are listening, who feel like there's nothing I can do about any of this situation happening around me, that's not true. And then even in, aside from those monumental things, there were smaller things that you did that affected your fellow inmates' lives in a positive way and to help them be better parents. And yeah.
Judy: Correct. so mothers, so many mothers in prison don't know how to be mothers, you know, because they've not been raised with role model mothers. And a lot of people that go back and forth to prison, it's a generational curse in their families. You know, the grandparents and their children and then their children's children. And so they needed to learn how to parent, you know, how to talk with their children, how to communicate with one another, because they would just end up raising more offenders going to prison.
So we started parents and their children, and that's where the children and the mother could have visits without it being in a prison setting and that would just be one on one. Of course, they would have to go through parenting classes so they could start, we could start seeing that they knew how to have this kind of a visit and it wouldn't be.
It would be safe. It would be safe for the children and the mother would know how to communicate with her child and without any distractions. so that, that would just, and it's still going today. It's called Patch.
And they're still doing that today. And I'm very proud of that. I just talked to some of the directors a couple months ago about the program to see how they were doing it. Just a touch base and it's still thriving. And then there was a 4-H life program that was funded through a university here in Missouri. And that funded where the whole family unit can have visits. The mother, the grandmother, the aunts, the uncles could all come in for a visit. And let's just expand this out a little bit and make it family unit, you know, and let all the family members learn and become what this child needs. And yeah, and so that that became very, very popular. Inmates loved it.
And there were so many women in prison that were abused that I started a Women Against Violence program where the governor's office in Arizona sent a representative to sit in on some of our sessions and it was they loved it so much they started the governor's task force against domestic violence and so I was just amazed and just thrilled that these women were getting what they needed.
Lori: When you look back on all of the violence that you endured, all of the injustice that you endured, and to see where you, what came from that.
It's like, what would have happened if you didn't go through all of that? All of this other stuff wouldn't have blossomed out of it. At as hard as it was.
Judy: Right? As hard as it was, I am extremely blessed and just thrilled that I was able to find my purpose, why God created me. And He allowed me, He took me through the fire and He chipped away the things that where I could see who I really was, who he really created me to be. And or the universe, whoever you feel is your power, your energy. so without all of those experiences, I wouldn't be the person I am today. And I love people, I love helping people. I work at Catholic Charities of Kansas City, St. Joseph. I'm excited to be here and to help offenders when they walk in and they don't know I work here.
And they see me and they say, my gosh, that's Judy Henderson. And I'm able to help them with housing or send them in the right direction for that or food, give them those things or financial assistance. The agency just does so much to uplift people, not a hands out always, but just hands up. And that's what we want in our society. We want good citizens that are healthy mentally and strong.
Lori: Yes, there is so much more we could talk about. We could be here all afternoon and we're not going to. I strongly encourage anybody who's listening, if you're listening to this, to get Judy's book because there's so much more to the story. If you can believe it, what she's shared is just a fraction of what she went through, not just the tough part, but the uplifting part, the part where you found you know, religion, you found your higher power, where you found meditation and how that helped you. And the journey, all the people who were on your team helping you with clemency, finally, finally, after six governors denied clemency, getting to the point where you were able to walk free.
Yeah, that whole story is just so, I couldn't put the book down. I I read it in about 24 hours. I read the entire thing because, well, like I said, I had to put it down and take a walk for a bit. But then I came back to it and I was like, I gotta get through this because I wanna know what happens next.
Judy: Well, thank you, Lori. I appreciate it. I'm glad that it was a good read for you. I hope you were able to gain something from it in some way. And I so appreciate you having me on. And when the light finds us, I hope everybody will receive the gifts that are in it for them.
Lori: Yes, yes. Well, before we close out, what is the song or I know you have a couple of songs that sustained you or that give you, know, uplift you?
Judy: Okay, What If by, gosh, can't think of his name right now, Matthew West, yes. And Yes I Can by Kane, C-A-I-N. And they are both great uplifting songs.
Lori: Yes, Matthew West, good one.
I'm gonna put links to both of those songs in the show notes so people can easily find and listen to them. Did you listen to, I gotta ask this other question though, did you listen to music a lot? Were those songs that you listened to when you were in prison or did you find them afterwards?
Judy: I did. I well I found there's a I listened to songs all during my incarcerations that were uplifting. I had to have that kind of energy surrounding me because everything else is so negative in there. So yep.
Lori: Right, right. Okay. And then lastly, if someone wants to continue a conversation with you, is there somewhere that they can reach you? You mentioned that you work for Catholic charities. And is
Judy: Yes, and we're getting out, I think they have the website at Judy and or judyannhenderson.com I believe, but there will be a link in the book.
Lori: Okay, fantastic, and I will put a link in show notes as well. Judy, thank you so much for joining me today on Fine Is a 4-Letter Word.
Judy: Thank you. Thank you, Lori. Thank you, Lori. Love you and have a blessed day.