James Dooley interviews Gary Wilson and Craig Campbell

James Dooley: What would you deem of what success is? Gary Wilson: I think success is like all areas of your life so to say that money is not a huge part of it would be completely wrong. If I like something I pull the trigger. I failed with several businesses because I've jumped into them too quick. Seeing the edge of the Earth that most won't get to see, just adventure and seeing the world, but that to me is success. James Dooley: I didn't believe this guy and the problem is today I'm joined with Gary Wilson and Craig Campbell. We're talking about the abundance mindset. Good having you both, love it, excited man, thanks for having me. I'm going to jump straight in Gary. You've got aspirations to hit a billion? Gary Wilson: Yeah, that's a big, big, big goal. James Dooley: Yeah, last night stopped at your house, little council flat in Glasgow, and on the wall in the room it said "the harder the work, the luckier you'll become." So can you expand a little bit on that? Gary Wilson: Yeah, um, I've got like Monopoly art or like money art all over my house, so um that's probably my favourite, my favourite one of my favourite sentences. Um, I do believe that like fundamentally like people who do well, um they just are better at spotting opportunities. Um, everyone, like I've seen so many people that have had the best opportunities in front of them and failed at it. I own in a sales company like I literally see that every single day because there's guys in the room that kill it, do amazing things for their living. And there's guys with the exact same inputs, exact same stuff given to them that don't get that same output in their life. So it's like how often are you rolling the dice? How often are you actually putting 200% into everything you're doing? And I think it's one of the most fundamentally flawed mindsets for most people is that they just don't understand that, and they don't understand it's like I'm just going to keep rolling the dice till something hits, till I get something to work. James Dooley: Next question, obviously I've made you your first million personally and you, Craig, introduced me to you. Gary Wilson: Yeah, so you owe Craig a lot of money, I would say both of you to be honest if I want to keep it real. Like, um, no, I mean that. Like I say all the time, like you guys were literally the two people that that got me a kickstart at the start and I'm not afraid to say that. It's like, um, it was so true. Met Craig up in Glasgow, invited me to Brighton SEO and I remember you sitting there talking about this big link building strategy we're doing on one of your sites and I'm like I don't like what you're doing with that. And then you got me to an audit and I was doing like a little, all these little Loom videos I was sending you all these Loom videos and then you were one of the first people to ever buy backlinks off me. Um, and then it kind of inspired from me. I went to one of your masterminds I think, but was off the back of Craig introducing me to you and then that was where I got the whole kickoff. James Dooley: I want to I want to jump a little bit over to you Craig with regards to the abundance mindset, right? So very first time I met you, obviously you came down. We had a mastermind in my office, yeah, and it was a great, great time. Poured a lot of champagne down your throat and you didn't come back home for an extra two days because you was that rough. Craig Campbell: I had to stay overnight. I was staying overnight, this is The Hangover. Had to stay over again, it was that bad. James Dooley: Just to be clear. So but after that you came down two weeks later. I didn't have a clue. I thought you'd upsold me like a kipper, because like, oh no problem mate, I'll come down, and I was like, I've not discussed any prices. Like I don't know what his day rate is for consultancy. And you do training for a lot of businesses and there's a lot of people that I know within the UK, especially that I'm close friends with, that you've trained up the team and they've absolutely skyrocketed and done amazing, right? I think you've got this kind of tough persona that people think about you, but you've got a very, very, very soft inside that you do help a lot of people. So I think there was a scenario I spoke about, maybe it's the wrong word, saying you dragged home people off the streets and employed them and stuff. But you seem to have a soft spot for a lot of people to help people. Where's that abundance mindset come from? Because you came down and you trained my team and that kind of kickstarted us and definitely saved us a couple of years. Like there's certain elements, certain tools, Ghost Browser, MultiLogin, Mass Planner, LinkedIn Helper. We had a lot of different sites, we had a lot of social media accounts that you came in, they small little bits of knowledge bombs that you came with that I had no clue about that the team integrated and saved us a lot of years. But my question to you is you just came down on the back of you didn't know me that well, obviously we'd had that good night at, yeah, but completely for free, no money changing hands. Is it like that you give out and you get back? Or is it this the abundance mindset of just helping others? Like, where where's that come from? Craig Campbell: I think I like to help others anyway, even you know with with the likes of Gary and stuff, you know, you see a a young guy trying trying to to make his way in the world and you're like come here, come here, do that, do that. I think I'm always quite helpful. You don't always get success stories. You get people who leech off you and stuff like that as well, so it can be quite a difficult thing. But I think naturally I just like to try and see people do well, and if I can help them with whether it's a you know a coming down a day or whatever, I think it swings and roundabouts. People will help you back. Um, and I've had help, you know from you. You got me Shang Ma and hopefully along the way we've helped each other in in other instances um along the way, and I think that's the way it should be. Doesn't always have to be about cash uh transactions, you know? It's it's all about who you know as well. Uh, and you know, I think that's something I learned very early on in business. It's not what you know, it's who you know in a lot of cases. And I think if I've got something I can give, um, you know, I think and nine times out of ten with other like-minded people you you get something back, whether it's in a year, whether it's in five years, H, I don't know, I'm still waiting a bee from Gary, but but I'm I'm hopeful that at some point I'll get something. But I I think naturally that's just the way I am, and and I think you guys are like that as well, you know? You it's just that natural thing. You're not doing it to I don't need to get you know a grand out of you or whatever it may be. Like I can get that from one of the other businesses I have got. So you know that I think there there comes a time where you're trying to to build relationships with other people and see where it goes, and if you have a good night out you're going, these are good lads, why not help them? James Dooley: It is strange, like it is strange, and it's not like it's not normality. Like there's so many other industries that I'm in outside of the SEO industry, and they're not the same. Like they see competition and they like, oh, can't speak to him. And our industry is like, elevate each other and help each other out. One plus one equals three and synergy. If you combine forces you get a force that's even bigger and better than what you could ever imagined. But that just seem and to be there, certain people within the SEO community that's dog eat dog. Yeah, but it seems to be that we've managed to kind of put this group together that actually we've never changed. I mean we buy a lot of drinks because, you know, one of the last to go to you, you go to, no. But on a serious note, like it, it's been an absolute pleasure in how well connected and how we have helped each other along the entrepreneurial journey to elevate each other. Because sometimes you go, you have Christmas dinner with the family or you go and speak to friends that you went to school with and they can't resonate and speak on the level that sometimes we might be wanting to speak on. Like, you know, like if I said oh I want to be a millionaire, you get laughed at, and I'm sat there opposite a guy saying a million, I don't want a million, I want a billion. Yeah? Do you know what I mean? Like, and it's like, so then it kicks you on. If you're thinking you're doing well in business, it's like, well, if I had aspirations for twenty million, I want thirty million, forty. I know money is the by-product in my opinion, like that's nothing to do with what success is. But it's um, it's a credit. But on that note, what is success to you? Is it how much money is in the bank? Like, what what would you deem of what success is? Gary Wilson: Um, I think success is like all areas of your life. So to say that money is not a huge part of it would be completely wrong. Um, money gives you like freedom to do good things, but I feel like money fuels the way you are as a person. So if like you're really miserable, depressed person and you have a lot of money, you're probably the type of person that will spend all that money in drugs or you'll spend all that money on being more miserable and depressed. It just, it just accelerates you as a person. Um, to me success is um um like relationships with people, like genuine good experiences in life. It's um it's working on, for me working on really cool things with really cool people. Um, seeing the edge of the Earth that most won't get to see, just adventure and seeing the world, like that to me is success. And I love that saying, seeing the edge of the world that others won't get to see. Yeah, it's just like great saying. It's just that I think when you you get to a headspace that the world is so abundant, and when you actually understand like what's out there and what you could do, um, what the world has to offer, I think that that is like the most addictive part of life. Um, and to me money plays into being able to do all of that stuff. You if you want to go and stay in the Burj Al Arab, like most people won't get to to sleep in that hotel, but they they bring you out twelve pillows to try on, you know? It's such a silly little thing, but it's something that you can sit here and like smile about. Like I think about a lot, the trips that we've done, the places we've been, the crazy trips to Thailand and just all the mad stuff. It's like that to me is like genuine joy and happiness. Um, it's those little moments, that little week where you get away and you just get away from it all and just you're with really cool people in a cool place. So and that's that's success, and that's the the true epitome of happiness to me. James Dooley: I think there's a lot of people with a lot of money that are not successful people. Um, I think they they completely fail at life because they just don't have that joy, don't have those relationships. They just chase money for like nothing. There's nothing you're going to do with it, you know? Money needs to be spent and used and actually utilised in the world to actually be a useful successful thing. What's your thoughts? What is success? Craig Campbell: I think pretty much what Gary says. Uh, I think you know, it's it's hard when you start out. You want to make as much money as you possibly can. Um, but as you get older, as you have kids, like like you do, which will come to in a moment, you know, it's been able to go on holiday, spend time with them, you know? I'm just back from a week in Portugal, just having a lazy week with the family, and a week before that I was in Lamanga. Um, you know, having fun with my friends. And I think being able to to do all of these things is success for me. I don't need to be a billionaire, you know? As long as I'm making money and I've got the the fun times, or even going up like the you know, out in the boat yesterday or having dinner or just having a chat, you know? All of these things are success to me. H, and obviously I've had a few health scares in in recent months, you know? I got diabetes, which I have reversed, and kidney stone and stuff. So I think obviously looking after your health and H stuff like that is obviously success as well. And I think for many years H I drunk a lot and and partied a lot and and tried to live life in the fast lane and and never had so much family holidays and H time with people that actually you just have a laugh with. And I think that for me is is success. And I think like Gary says, you need money to be able to do all of that. But um, you know, I don't sit there at night thinking, and and I I've actually canned uh four or five businesses in the last year because I just didn't have the right time or or or the the time to to apply to them. So um, I could have went on and made more money and chased that money. But was was it going to further impact my health or or fun times and everything else? And I think that's that's what you have to sit back and have a look at. So I think just getting the balance right is is important for me. James Dooley: I think I think the biggest part for me, for I think success is happiness. Is that's what, in my opinion, and when you then start understanding what is happiness, because there's people that might have everything in life and not be happy. Yeah, they might have a beautiful wife, they might have amazing kids, they might have one hundred million in the bank and still not be happy. So then when you start looking at that and going, what is happiness? And you start to realise it's like expectation versus reality, yes. And the delta between that is what happiness is. So if you can start lowering expectation of things in life, you're going to be more happy as a person. Yeah, and when I started to understand that, and I started to realise that we I had a few interesting conversations with the wife and she was like, why why are you doing all this? Like you're doing all this travelling to network with people. You've got all these different brands and different businesses and that you scaled out. Why? And it was a great question. And I remember being sat there thinking to myself, why? To myself, why? And then I start to realise, and we discussed this, it was this morning actually over coffee. And when I push the boundaries and I'm outside my comfort zone and I keep pushing myself outside my comfort zone, I put this pressure on myself that, like an elastic band, and the way the only way I can explain it is I want my elastic band to be really really stretched to the point where I go, I need a holiday. And then when I go away and I go to Chiang Mai or I go and do things, that holiday then is, and because I need it, is happiness, yeah. And I feel like if I retired tomorrow, someone say there's a billion pound, you can retire tomorrow, and I go out every night and I get prawn for starters and steak or lobster every night, and I went and got on, I could do that anyway, right? Craig Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. James Dooley: But like, if I went to did that every single night and partied every single night, I reckon after a week I'd be really bored of doing that, yeah? And like, I don't want that all the time. Sometimes I want to go beans on toast, yeah, peanut butter on toast with a banana or something, you know? I mean, like, sometimes I want the basic things in life. I don't want to have that all the time. And I think when I start to understand that, I actually put pressure on myself to want to grow, because then it means I can appreciate, you know, all going to nice luxury places, see the edges of the world that people can't see, as Gary puts it, yeah? To go to these really nice places, but I've pushed myself that hard that I'm ready for a break, mh, and that break becomes so much more fun and enjoyable, yeah? And I think that that is a big part of it. And I think that sometimes you only realise that when you are sat around other entrepreneurs, yeah, and you understand, you know, what they're, because he speaks to some people and it would be, what's what's your idea of success? Having a million in the bank? Yeah, is that idea of success? In good luck to you mate, because you're not going to be happy if you do get there. You're going to climb that mountain and once you get to the top of that mountain and you think you've reached your goal, you're not going to be happy, yeah? It's it's like, to add one more thing as well, like, at the moment my granddad, he's in hospital, really ill. Um, and literally last week, my mom's over in Spain just now with him, and he was talking about like, all of the things that he regretted and all the the past mistakes he made, the people he'd felt fallen out with that he was never able to repair that relationship, and he's sitting there now and he's like dying at cancer. Um, and it's like, sorry to be like super morbid for a second, but it's like, to me, I think what really, I think about a lot, is like, you're talking about like pulling that elastic all the time and really pushing it. It's like, what will I not regret when I'm there? Because see, at the end of the day, there's no amount of money, there's nothing else that matters to him now, sitting there in that moment, than everything that's happened in the past. And I think if you look at life in the sense of like sitting in that that that shoe where you can't do the things that you could do today, it's like, will you will you be happy that you took the easy path that you did the easy nice fun things and didn't push harder and didn't really go for this thing that was a dream when you were younger, like, are you going to be happy that you took the easy path at seventy-three? Do you know what I mean? So and that and that's a great one for me to come on to now, because taking the easy path is the easy option and what majority of people seem to do, and the one percent don't, they take the hard path, yes. But let's talk a little bit about taking the hard path. And obviously you had a large brand that you was building out with an SEO agency and there was a lot of pressure on it. There's a lot of staff you'd built out, probably were too big than what you wanted to kind of build out to. And then you brought it back in. You're like, you know what, this isn't isn't for me. So sometimes this taking the easy path, but sometimes it's taking a path that's just like, do you you know what, at what expense? I do it for, I'm not going on the holidays. Like, health is wealth. I'm deteriorating in wealth, in health, sorry, for what, yeah? So then I think there is that kind of, how far do you stretch it before, don't, if you can touch on a bit a little bit with regards to what constraints you had where you you're pushing really hard and then you got to a point where it would just like, this is not fun, no? Craig Campbell: I I was in that exact place, but I think it also comes from from H you know being a young guy. H I was young at the time. I know people say you're not a young guy, but I was young at the time when I had agency. Um, and you know, the the ego was there. I wasn't a businessman. I I was just flung into this situation where I was in charge of all these people. H and going on holiday, I used to run down to the reception to get proper Wi-Fi and email all the people what they were going to be doing that day and all that kind of stuff, you know? Just I wasn't even able to have a holiday in peace and quiet. And you do say, you know, at one point, why am I doing this? And is it to tell your mates down the pub that you've got x amount of staff in a big fancy office? You know, I used to literally sit in my pants worried that someone wasn't going to pay their invoice because the whole thing would have collapsed. Um, and and you know, I think the the ego at the start of any, and we've all had an ego, you know? You're just not willing to tell, not willing to delegate and stuff like that as well. I'd built myself into the business. I wasn't working on it. I was surrounded, every piece of content had to go through me. H all the sales went through me, all the invoice went through me. And there's only so far you can go with that particular model before the wheels start falling off. And you know, one day I went to the doctor and and I'm like, I don't feel good. I feel dizzy. I remember waking up and I felt all dizzy. And I remember standing up in the office and I felt all dizzy and stuff, and the doctors like, H, you know, if you got money problems, not, H, if you got you know marital problems, not, and and he asked me what I done for eleven hours I told him. They said that will kill you. He said, you've got anxiety. Um, I had anxiety, had to get medication and all that for it. I just couldn't switch off. And you know, I I burnt myself out. And at that point, you're like, why am I doing this? I am burnt. I'm physically can't be asked working anymore. And that's where you decide to to change things and obviously become more of a businessman, because I ended up, you know, liquidating that company. Um, and and starting a fresh. And you know, was about H making profit and and having time and delegation and everything I'd learned the hard way. So a lot of the the stuff that I now teach was because I, you know, fucked it all up myself, you know? There was no systems. There wasn't Sops really at that time either. I was just kind of finding my feet. And again, you guys have probably been in those shoes as well where are it's really stressful, yeah? James Dooley: With regards to mistakes that you see, right? So we sat here, we've all got successful businesses, we've done really well for each other. Um, we've all grown multiple brands. What mistakes do you see others making that's not in our circle? Because obviously we're doing in our circle, we could put the arm around them and say, stop doing this. Or like mistakes maybe that we've made previously as well. But what mistakes do you feel people make? Gary Wilson: Um, I was actually having a conversation with my team about this uh last week, and I'm like, we had a we had a chat in the morning and we're all talking about their goals and like their big like why are they doing what they're doing? Why are they so driving? What's it for? Um, and one of the things I said was pick your goals wisely, because there was so many people in that room that made all these crazy goals that were goals of grandeur. And I looked at the character of the person and like, if some, there was one guy in particular that said, I'm going to build the biggest clothing brand in Scotland, right? Nineteen years old, just into sales, and he's going to build the biggest clothing brand in Scotland and be a salesman right now, not I I I, all for pushing people up, I love it when somebody sits in my in front of my face and says to me they're going to do that, and I believe them. I didn't believe this guy. And the problem is is that people set goals are far too ahead and they never hit any goals and they never achieve anything and they just, they become like, confidence is built from actually achieving stuff. And like proving to yourself that you can do what you say you're going to do. If you say you're going to do something and then you don't hit it, it's like you're done. But if you sit and say I'm going to be the biggest clothing band in Scotland, you're nineteen years old with no money and you're in sales, yeah, you're a failure from the minute you started, right? So it's like, we I think people need to be really really smart and like be willing to take baby steps and actually accept the fact like, that's one thing that I would say all of us really have is that that true humbleness where like, you can actually look at yourself and say, do you know what I'm not very good at this, this is what I'm good at, this is not what I'm good at, and I'm going to find people or I'm going to find the skills to actually get better at this thing, thing. Instead of just delusionally assuming that you can take on the world when actually you can't. And that's where somebody like us, and we say, say we're going to do something, generally speaking, we go and hit it and we do it because we understand the depth and intensity of that goal and what's required to hit that. Mone, see, I think another one on that, just touch, expanding slightly on it. If you set yourself many goals that are achievable, that you can hit, if you then go and get those goals and you hit those goals and you celebrate those goals, yes, that's happiness correct? That you're getting a dopamine kick from hitting the goal, those little mini wins, done, dopamine kick, dopamine kick, dopamine kick. You go out, celebrate it, people like, oh well done, high five, you. Now you're getting serotonin, all the brain chemicals is happiness, yes? So it's very very important, the mini, the mini goals that you kind of are achievable to, to help you get there. What what would you say if there anything? I I'll throw one or two out there. We can maybe just throw like one. In my opinion is procrastination, paralysis analysis. People overthinking things, having this this perfect idea to go and get something started, like, you can change, like, I always say like with an SEO, you've got a really really important button that you might not know, it's called edit. If it's not right first time you can go in and edit it, that's fine. Do you know what I mean? If you get the wrong domain, you can, you can free one it, everything's reversible, yes. Do you know what I mean? So don't procrastinate and start, and once you start you'll learn a lot of other things from that definitely. From that, I think my impulsiveness is probably what's taken me so far. I'm not a guy that thinks like, even we spoke last night about the H links for you domain name, um, you know, I if I like something, I'll pull the trigger, and I I've failed H with several businesses because I've jumped into them too quick, um, as well. And it's just not been the right niche or H whatever it may be. But again, I'm an impulsive guy, and I think that takes me, it sets me apart from from probably ninety percent of other people there, where I'm willing to give it a shot. And yeah, I've looked back and you know I've kicked myself a million times going, you bastard, what you doing? But um, you know, I think that's a thing I wouldn't like to change about myself is the just going and taking action. Even I think the big, I think the big thing with that Craig is to do something that had to be impulsive on the on the opposite sides to it, too many people are scared of failure, yes? You're impulsive, right? It's confidence. You fail, you failed a lot of times. It's something that you'll jump into, but you'll go, that's not failing, it's learning, yeah? You win or you learn. There's no such thing as losing, our vocabulary. Do you know what I mean? Like, you win or you learn, you develop, you you kick on from it, you learn something from that, if it is a mistake, from that mistake, and that's a mistake in itself in not wanting to fail. Failing is good, yeah? I think another couple of Ps. I always call it the free P. So I said that, um, procrastination, perfectionist, kind of falls in the same realm of procrastination. A lot of people procrastinate because they're a perfectionist or they spend too long on something that doesn't really matter. Like the whole now C kind of saying, you don't need to be faster than the bear, you just need to be faster than the other people running away from the bear, to get away from the bear, do you know what I mean? So like, you just need to do enough to win the game. You just need to do enough to be in our, in what me and you do with SEO, you just need to do enough to be position number one. Yeah, like, you can't get any higher in position number one, you just need to be enough to beat your competition to win that order, do you get what I mean? Like, stop chasing perfection, yeah? Or it's look to improve upon your systems and processes. And then the other biggest one, I probably say it's the biggest out of the free Ps that people struggle, is prioritization. I think a lot of people get format in a massive way and they're I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do this, and they're not prioritizing actually one where they make the money and two, what makes them happy, yeah? And I think too many people on prioritization, they don't sit down, they should do. And they should sit down at the start of each day or the start of each week and know, it's the most important things I need to take off. I have, I have a midlife crisis almost every week. Like, I take my goals and like genuinely, like it's um it's crazy. Like I I'll go through goals and like analyse everything. I'm like, I'm on the right track and I'm working on the right things. Like, what are the big why goals here that I'm focused on? It's like, I'm never going to have regrets from doing that all the time, and it's like, that keeps you on a straight line for like hitting the end goal, which is what truly matters. What's your thoughts on um stress? Uh, stress, stress, stress, and pressure. Like, do you embrace it? I'll ask you that first, because I think you've got a ridiculous threshold and I think you thrive on, yeah, stressful? Craig Campbell: I mean, I'm I'm kind of sicking away, and it's like, I kind of love it. So I actually chase the pressure and stress, like, I could be sitting at a time where like, things are going great and like making tons of money, everything's running smoothly, and I'll be like, right, I need to cause havoc somewhere. Like, I need to, there's going to need to be a department, a sack, half of the people in it. Like, something just needs to happen here. Like, it's just not exciting for for me. Like, the whole chasing pain and chasing pressure, um, is the way you grow. That's to me, I will I will thrive and run into that all the time. I just see myself as like a furnace that, every with every single more crazy bit of pressure I can put on, I build another layer of metal to make myself stronger, to able to handle that pressure. And it will get to the point where like, you're able to handle the most unimaginable amounts of pressure and it feels like nothing. And that's that's kind of where I feel like is the winning place. So I like, I think pressure is like, chase the most painful things. Like, I almost say, you were talking about happiness, like, I almost like, the problem with that is like, chasing pain and pressure is like, it doesn't really make you happy in the moment, right? I can almost say I would optimize for fulfillment than happiness, because a lot of stuff that you do is very hard. It's actually very difficult. Like, having to sack someone or having to like, have a tough conversation with someone and tell them that, look, you're not showing up the way you should be. Like, that's not a nice, enjoyable thing for anyone to do, especially when you are a heart, a kind, giving person. But it's the right thing to do by that person, it's, and you understand that, but it's not happiness at the time, true. But I don't, I feel like life is a roller coaster, and I think you have to have the pain in your life to experience happiness. I would say I would say my happiness is euphoric, like, I exactly, it's like, it's like going away on what, some of these trips were talking about, like, to me, I'll probably feel the extent of how great that is, like, twenty times more than an average Joe that goes in that holiday, because for me, like, I've been in such a tough environment, so that that opposing place feels like the most amazing. Exactly, like you said the ends of the world, right? So where certain people lived their life, and it's like, happiness, unhappiness, happiness, unhappiness, happiness, unhappiness, it's like, like this, you're pretty much like this, so your happiness is like on high, like, oh I've needed this, you're not saying your unhappiness, but the sometimes the pressure, like, even when I was in the office today and you went in and you was like a fucking bull in a china shop, you was just causing havoc, yeah? It was like, and then your office manager had to pull you out to go, come and have a coffee, do you know what I mean? It was like, he needs to calm down. Like, but like, that pressure that you put on yourself, but I do feel that that pressure you put on yourself is it passes through, it's euphoric, and euphoric as well. It passes through euphorically is, inous, but again, that's very very very unusual that is an extremist type of personality train. What what's your thoughts and stress and pressure? Craig Campbell: And I think most human beings uh thrive on a bit of pressure H and bit of stress. I think people naturally perform better, or or or whatever, under some form of stress. I wouldn't say them as extreme as Gary, you know, I don't want to fucking invite that stuff, enjoy, or anything like that, you know? I'm not yeah, I'm not sick in ahead, but h i, you know, I think I'd like to think I, you know, I think having the balance of it is is important. I think if you're, you can become set in your ways if there is no pressure, and I think H, we we spoke about it last, you know, that Dan Pena would go in and fire his top sales guy just to just to show the rest of them, just to show the rest of them their jobs are not safe, and and things like that. And I think, you know, human beings do you know thrive under a bit of pressure naturally, so I think it's it's good to to have it and keep people in the toes and and all that kind of stuff. Do I like being under pressure, yeah? I think I perform better h under pressure, um, as well. It's why I always do my slide shows lately. I just do them better when I just fucking boom, boom, boom. I know the person saying Craig, you're talking tomorrow, give me my fucking slides today, you know? I perform better with that. Whereas if I'm sitting and I've got three weeks, I'm like, my mind's not like, you know, coming up with ideas and stuff. So you know, I think I do thrive under pressure, but um, is what it is, you're going to get H pressure and stress in business anyway, and I think I I definitely think it's a good thing, but not quite to the the point where I thrive on it, and I'd rather avoid it if if I could. And but difficult conversations, you have to have, and I'm not scared to have them, so I'm probably, you're talking like, you're a be cam s here. I mean, let's keep it real. James Dooley: Few quick fire questions. We got a few minutes left on it. So what has been the most challenging part of your entrepreneurial journey? Um, I suppose for you if you say if you actually chose some, say that's the most challenging with what just been saying, is you want it to always be the most challenging, yeah? Like, do you know what I mean? Like, next week you want to I brought have another great, I've not, I've not always been this strong, mate. I mean, like, in the early days, this before I knew you guys, this was actually right before I met you Craig. Like, things kicked off. Like, um, I was like grossly overweight. I was sleeping in really late every day. Like, I had so much belief, and I remember, like, when I first started doing SEO, became really good at it. I'd been doing it for like two or three years, had an agency. I didn't know how to sell or anything at this time. Um, I'd basically burnt through twenty grand of my dad's inheritance money at like, nineteen, twenty years old. And I remember I was in bed, um, slept into like two o'clock. My mom had come home from work and had a conversation with me about getting a job. Um, and I remember at the time, like, the anger and the frustration, I absolutely hated her at the time. Um, because at that time, I had all this belief, but it was so difficult. Like, I genuinely understand what hard work looks like, because I was like putting so, so, so much pressure on myself at that time to try and make it work. And like, nothing was, I had, by this time, I had free failed businesses. I had a fashion store, I had a, I think we've all done one of those at some point, and I had a fashion store, an agency, had all these LeGen sites, all these stupid businesses that I had no clue how to run any of them, no, what was doing, no good mentors that could lead me in any direction to understand what to do next. And I was truly lost. And that was breaking at the time. So I think that moment was like the hardest of all. But there was something in me at that time that when that happened, that I actually took responsibility after what she said. And I didn't become a victim. And I decided I'm going to just go and get this. And it was very shortly after that I'd started to do a couple of things. I ranked for SEO Glasgow, and that was actually how I ended up meeting you. So it's like, I never knew where it was going to end up, but I had the right mindset and the right attitude around where I was. And I took responsibility for the fact that, you know what, sleeping into two o'clock is acting like a flipping fool when you're trying to start a business. That isn't going to work. That isn't going to make you a successful person. So I actually need to change. Um, and that was a huge turning point was for where I actually got a head start. Anything on yourself? Craig Campbell: Um, I think, you know, the the first agency I had, had taught me a lot, and those were the most difficult times, you know? I I went into that blindly, and I think most SEOs will be able to resonate, you know? You you get good at SEO, you start making a few quid. You get more clients chapping at your door. Before you know, you've got an office and you've got a web developer or a copywriter or whatever it may be. That's certainly how it was for me. Didn't know the first thing about business. Didn't even know about accountants. H tax, you know, VAT, n, none of this stuff, flat rate schemes, all you know, all the all the stuff of the day. Um, and obviously building up that agency and and trying to keep cash in the business and all all of these things were really really difficult, you know? You earn a few quid and you want to spend it all. Um, and you know, I think all of that kind of stuff was a massive massive apprenticeship for me. And it was difficult. Um, again, just because of my attitude, control freak. I wouldn't be told anything. I wouldn't listen to anyone. It was always going to be done my way or no way. And and ultimately that led to failure. And which was a sore one to to take on the chin. But but again, it helps you go again and H eradicate those mistakes. And I think that's the the biggest lessons I could have ever learned was from my own horrible attitude. So that was probably the the most horrible, sleepless nights. James Dooley: Last question. I'll I'll answer it to start with because this is to do with what the video is. What would you say? What would you tell your sixteen-year-old self? So I'll quickly give my my quick fire answer, is to have the abundance mindset. Having that abundance mindset and entrepreneurial journey allowed me to network with people like you, which has helped me to elevate to ridiculous goals that I could never even dream of. I wasn't brought up that way to be able to dream that big. It was like, sometimes the stuff that you can earn now in a day was what you thinking you'd earn in a year. Do you know what I mean? So like, having that abundance mindset in helping others, but then obviously then having that network is your net worth. Then that would be mine. But what would you tell your sixteen-year-old self if you could? Gary Wilson: Um, I think that you know, the delegation, um, processes, scaling, uh, are all things that that I I wish I had done a lot quicker and understood a lot quicker. Um, that would that would be the big thing. Don't be scared to spend money on these things. Again, had the mindset of whatever comes in is going in my fucking back pocket and nothing's getting back out, nothing's getting spent. So again, I I think I would go back and just tell myself that. And I think I would get um places a hell of a lot quicker um than I did, working smarter, not harder. I was brought up like, if you need to do a job right, do it yourself. I said, it's the wrong, that's the wrong answer. That's how we was brought up, yeah? Like, and it's like, actually, if you work smart and you can get someone to do it who's better than you at doing it, so also come down the road of your employment. You want to try and employ people that are better than you, or or set up a business part. Everyone always talks about business partner. How do you choose your business partners? Pretty simple, mate. Whatever I'm weak at, I want to make sure my partners good at that, yeah? And then we compliment each other. So that's kind of goes down the out that. James Dooley: What's yours? What would you tell your sixteen-year-old self? Craig Campbell: Um, I tell myself to focus and go where the money is, and I at that time, I mean, I'd spent like weeks making a logo or like, yeah, yeah, um, designing the, I remember the first agency website I made, it was a beautiful website like beautiful, but it took me like four months, and I've made it myself. I could have get a guy in India to do it, you know? It's like ridiculous. Um, and I just never like went and made money. I think a lot of people, they're so weak to to just go and actually do the hard thing. Like, how do you make money in an agency? Like, go and speak to clients and get some flipping money. Like, if I'm starting today, I'd be going out and getting a client today. I wouldn't even have a website. Don't even need one, yeah? Like, so I'd focus on one thing and I would do it incredibly well. Would have ten businesses in a go. Um, I don't believe in that at all. I think you can achieve success in one thing and do it abundantly well in it. Um, and I would just go after the money, and I wouldn't do all this nonsense. James Dooley: Well, it's been an absolute pleasure, Gary, Craig, thanks for having us on mate. Gary Wilson: Yeah, good, yeah, enjoyed it. Craig Campbell: It's about.