Hi, I'm Molly john Fast and this is Fast Politics, where we discussed the top political headlines with some of today's best minds.
And Mike Johnson says the House will investigate the January sixth Committee. We have such a great show for you today as we start to come back from our vacation, Heathens Emily Atkin stumps by to explain to us where we stand on climate change going into the Trump administration. But first we have MSNBC contributor Charlie Sykes on the chaos and the GOP going into this administration.
Welcome to back to Fast Politics. Charlie sikes.
Wow, I am honored the very first one for this year because twenty twenty five is going to be Molly, It's going to be a hell of a ride.
It was like New Year's I was like, I am really not convinced that twenty twenty five will be better than twenty twenty four.
Oh, it's got to be better, because twenty twenty four was so awful. That was it, you pronounced it. I'm not going to even try now. Twenty twenty four was pretty brutale. We know what's going to happen a little bit in twenty twenty five. I hope that people have charged up their batteries again. I hope we remember to pace ourselves because I think the issues are going to be pretty crystal clear this year.
Yeah, this is true, it is It's hard, but let's we have not podcasted since right before Christmas. So I am wondering right at during the Christmas break because Trump world is just forever and ever and there are no vacations. There erupted a lot of fighting over H one B one visas the lifeblood of cheap, very educated labor in Silicon Valley. Not surprisingly, Elon is pro Maga is anti Now.
This was really interesting because it's a core issue for MAGA, and it's a fundamental It's a fundamental division. There's some real substance here, and there's a It reminds us that there's something inherently st able about a populist movement basically being run by Elita's billionaires. And I think you saw that tension flair out there.
So here's my question. Who wins? Like for now, Trump wins, but what happens when Trump is in power?
We look I think the phrase four now is important. I thought was interesting that Trump sided with Elon Musk and vivik Aramaswami as opposed to the people who've been with him from the beginning, the H one B. I don't want to get into the weeds of the H one B visa, but this was a real flashpoint back in twenty sixteen. He pledged to do away with him, and it was a nasty fight between the Steve Bannons of the world and Elon Musk and Donald Trump came
down solidly when favor of his paymaster. Now, is he going to be able to continue to do that? Will that be the pattern? Is he going to be able to pacify the base? And I think that this is maybe a preview of some of the fights we're going
to have over trade overspending imber. Elon Musk is in charge of that whole doge, this massive cut in government spending, and I think that he's about to discover the laws of political gravity that every conservative Republican has learned it one time or another, or should have learned, which is that people always say they want to cut government programs until you talk about cutting their government program Yeah, abstract.
That's what's so interesting is if you look at it from just a completely a political view. Right, Elon has I believe he completely ruined Twitter, but he has kept it alive, right with much less staff. Right, so in somewhat by some measurements, that was a six. We made it much cheaper. He has SpaceX is does really a lot of incredible stuff. So he's had a lot of you can argue that, you can argue a lot of processes and minuses, but he's had some real tangible successes.
And I think that he seriously thinks that now he will conquer government. But government is really a different animal, Oh.
A completely different animal. And what you're seeing now is hubris because a lot of those skills are not transferable to politics. And in terms of hubris, I think there's a fantasy. And I wrote my newsletter today to the contrary newsletter today on what we've seen from Elon Musk and Donald Trump in the last week. These are people who are not sobered by responsibility. I think that there's always that fantasy that authoritarians and extremists are going to
be tempered by the weighty responsibilities of power. Yeah, No, Elon Musk has actually gone on this incredible narcissistic terror. Actually that doesn't cover it. Think about the kinds of things that he's doing that he's got the ear of the president, and he's got this massive responsibility, and yet he's gone off on his own. He launched that fight about Visus on his own. He's now embraced seeing the
neo Nazi far right party in Germany. He switched out his avatar on on social media to Pepe the Frog, which is an alt right symbol. So here's a guy who is acting like there are no limits, there are no checks. It is this pure arrogance, and I think history is full of that kind of hubris and arrogance, leading to some rather spectacular downfalls, particularly when you have two giant egos involved. How long do you think how long do you think this bromance lasts?
That is the big question. And we saw over the break that, supposedly Mike Johnson, there was a lot of Trump is sick of Elon chatter, and we saw that reported, We heard that, I heard that secondhand from some other people. Like so, if Trump is channeling that, then that is probably not a great sign for Elon.
It's going to play out because obviously he feels the Elon and and he's still siding with him, but at some point there's got to become a breaking point. That's why I mentioned the whole spending cut thing. At some point, when Elon comes in trailing his clouds of arrogance with his plan to cut two trillion dollars out of the federal budget, Donald Trump's going to be faced with some hard political realities, and I think that the bromance might
end at that point. Now. Actually, I did see an interesting point over the weekend from I think it was Eric Erickson of all people, who pointed out that Elon Musk is creating his own little cult of personality. Yes, at some point that bumps up against Trumps. Oh yeah, there is that, and the fact that he's been acting as an independent figure over the last several weeks. And I think it's just an incredible tell.
Yeah, I think that's a really good and interesting point. And I would say, look, what Elon has going for him is that he's the richest man in the world, right, so he can, theoretically, in a world where there are no real campaign limits, he could fund every single candidate to the tune of whatever amount of money he wants. And that I think is a sort of on I don't know how you get around that. But in the same point, Trump does not like to be the co star, and I think that is a real tension there.
There's another tension. Think about the people in Trump world, the Trump warbit, how they're all basically second rate, third grade characters who own their power and their celebrity to Donald Trump. They don't have independent power bases. He you know, maybe they did in the first term, but now they don't. They're all creatures of Donald Trump. He can brush them
off like lint, with the exception of Elon Musk. Elon Musk has now created an independent power center that Trump has to deal with, and frankly, that power center has become more extreme and more dangerous with every passing day. So if anyone thinks and again and go back to this thing that I think Trump will have to moderate because he has to listen to Wall Street, the cross currents of this administration are going to be very intense.
You have the Project twenty twenty five folks, You have the heavy breathing Magabase, which is going to demand certain levels of cruelty, and then you have Elon Musk, who is quite frankly a wild card, the fact that he's been engaging basically in foreign policy during that transition on his own. It's like, what can go wrong? What can go wrong here?
Yeah? No, for sure, that is a real question and also super important, I do think. And he's also the problem with Elon too is not just it's not just Elon, it's all of his companies. So it's SpaceX and Tesla, and the guy has all these satellites. Right, This is a person who has so many entities that he's representing besides his own his own political ambitions that I think that is really just so it's hard to even know
I'm thinking of. So a lot of these billionaires have gone have bravely gone down tomorrow ago to visit bravely with Trump, including Jeff Bezos. And suppose like Elon went to the Jeff Bezos dinner. Right, who is the big competitor of Elon with SpaceX?
Yeah? Exactly. So if you're Donald Trump, you know that most circumstances, you can destroy somebody with just a bad twitch. So and so's really dumb, so and so's really a disappointment. So and so I can't do that with Elon Musk because Elon Musk for he can't do it, but Elon Musk owns Twitter. Elon Musk can fire back. So it's going to be difficult to see how how this plays out, although I have to admit that I do think this is going to be one of the great storylines of
Trump two point zero. And by the way, talk about Trump in the last couple of days, the posts he's made after New Orleans and the terrible terror attacks there, so that it's design okay. I think you keep in mind that Donald Trump becomes president of the United States of America in about seventeen sixteen seventeen days, right, and you would think that at a certain point you would become more presidential. In the wake of that attack in
New Orleans. First of all, he spread false information from that fake Fox News report blak, lashed out at the Biden administration, and then had this statement just on January first, where he talks about our country is a disaster, a laughing stock all over the world, and then it goes on to say that the USA is breaking down, a violent erosion of safety, national security, and democracy all in caps is taking place all across our nation. Only strength
and powerful leadership will stop it. So there's no let us come together, let's unify, let's have a bipartisan front, let us appeal to the better angels of our nature. It's like he's going in there filled with his personal grievances. And so for people who say that you and I suffer from Trump derangement syndrome, I think it's going to be interesting sitting back and going, guys, we told you you thought we were exaggerating.
But here's my hottest take those tweets. America is beyond repair. What it's like, it's his template. Every Trump tweet is American carnage. The question I think is if we look back historically, I'm thinking about using twenty sixteen as the template. And this is not to say that I don't think he's super dangerous and I don't think America. I don't
think American. I think American democracy is in it. Like the next four years are going to be like, really, fifty to fifty we come out of this thing and don't turn into Russia. But like one of the things, like if you look at twenty sixteen, he did this same he was like, we're going to go to war with Mexico. We're going to go to war with Canada,
and then in the end he renegotiated. Knaf does not really I do feel like he tends to like the hyperbolic rhetoric is in order to own the lebs and make people hysterical and then be like and to pretend he's crazier than he is. Again, is he crazy? For sure? And maybe that was because the people around him were better at maybe because he doesn't have the same kind of Kelly and Maddis around him. He will do crazier stuff, but there was a certain amount of calculated craziness.
There is and you can really see having watched him so closely for eight or nine years, you can see the times when he just does things to distract, is to seize the news cycle. I would put say, the talk about taking Greenland as a classic, that's a distraction. He's not actually going to do that, But everything else.
I do think that this time around we need to take it literally and seriously, because, as you point out, you have a completely different cast of characters around him than you had before, and they have a plan and the people who are really driving the agenda are not anything close to the mainstream. This is where we're getting back to who's really driving the agenda? Is it the magabase or is it Elon Musk? What is the rational moderating voice in his ear right now? Right?
No, I think that's a real question.
Maybe maybe some of these Wall Street moguls are going to say, do whatever you like, rip as many families apart as possible, but don't do anything that will affect the bond market. So talked up on tariff PA, don't actually maybe that's going to happen. Give us our little bit of pelf and when bootle and grift, and then you can do whatever else you like, but don't screw up the stock market. That's my best that's my best case scenario.
Yeah, I think that's I think that is the best case scenario that all of us believe is the best case scenario. Is that there's some amount of pushback from people like the people like the Scott Basset, that there's some amount of there's some amount of pushback from Republicans. I think we should talk about what's happened now in the Senate because John Thune is actually you know, he said he's keeping the filibuster again, right, But that's that Trump law. Rick Scott was Trump's pick. He lost.
Discuss Yeah, actually, I'm struggling against unwanted optimism about that's because those were two important votes. Donald Trump wanted to have a magaloyalist as a majority leader. He lost decisively. He wants them to eliminate the filibuster, and it just sounds like they're not going to do that. Now. Again, we've seen Republicans cave in over and over again. But I don't I know that they have the votes to
do away with a filibuster. And by the way, this was something that over the last four years, I just want to remind people I did occasionally say, be careful what you wish for. You're going to want that filibuster in place sometime in the future. And now it becomes really important because it is possible that the House, when they get done with their circus like votes, will pass some of this Trumpian this Trumpian legislation. Now it may only be with one or two votes, but that's enough.
So then it goes to the Senate, and you hope that the Senate is where those ideas either go to die or whether there's a roadblock against the most extreme elements of that. The other thing is I don't want to read too much into it either, but the year end report from Chief Justice John Roberts seems to at least hint that perhaps he understands the degree to which he has damaged the credibility of the judiciary. And by the way, this is the world that John Roberts created
with that immunity. One of the reasons why I think people are so pessimistic and everybody's bowing the knee is because we no longer have confidence that the federal courts and the Supreme Court is going to be a is going to be a guardrail for our constitutional republic as it has been in the past. And that's John roberts legacy. And maybe there's a sense there that, oh shit, look what we have created, Look what we now face, and the fact that the public no longer has confidence in
an independent judiciary. So maybe we'll see the courts begin to stand up a little bit again. But even as I say that, I'm blusher cannot how many times do I have to hold this fucking football right, I try to kick the fucking football that's going to be pulled out from under us. But those are these two little and I guess my overall sense of twenty twenty five is that hubris does lead to downfalls, and political parties that come into power will almost invariably overreach, over extend themselves.
And this one strikes me as the Republican under Donald Trump, who are going to dramatically overreach themselves, dramatically misread their quote unquote non mandate, and I think that's going to have real consequences over the next few months.
Yeah, that is a real question. And it's so funny because the one thing, and I know we're almost out of time, but I just want to like marinate on this for a minute, because I think you appreciate this. Donald Trump is not his brand, is not the Republican brand, right, No, it's not its own thing. And the reason that he was able to defy political gravity was any number of reasons. But as I think, certainly, being a forward facing person who ran for president for the last four years did
not hurt. But I wonder we were spending so much time marinating on what we got wrong and and what Democrats should do differently, mostly to very little good effect. But I'm wondering if part of it was just of necessary Certainly there were people who could have defeated Donald Trump, but maybe the biggest mistake Democrats made it was just not was underestimating the power that he had.
That's right, and I think that they do need to understand that he's tapped into some actual grievances in the least good faith way possible. But that's why I say I think that this year is going to be clarifying because I think one of the secret elements of Donald Trump's appeal was when he broke with Republican orthodoxy and said, I'm not going after Social Security and Medicare. I will
not go after those kinds of programs. And I think that when Elon Musk comes sauntering into his office someday with his big Doge report, he's going to find out that promise is going to be really at risk. Will he side with Elon Musk if it means cuts to Social Security and Medicare or will he side with his base and by his base, the people who actually voted for him. And that's going to be that I think is going to be one of the defining moments.
Yeah, exactly, exactly, And that is the big question. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you.
It is always great talking with you.
Momy Ellie. I can write some newsletter he did.
Welcome back to Fast Politics, Emily.
My gosh, thanks for having me.
It's a cheery time.
I am always so happy every day.
The people on the climate be really doing great, So let's talk.
We are known for being perpetually just like cheery and rosie and having really nice things to say.
Well, I mean, the problem here is that there's no world in which the second Trump admin isn't really bad. So let's talk about it.
Yeah, there's really like not a lot of nuance here, and there's almost something like easier about that because covering of Biden administration is like there's a lot of new ones. There's some good stuff and some horrible stuff, and it's you know, challenging to appropriately contextualize this the I guess the one upside here, but the Trump administration is that like there's like zero contextualization that I need to do.
Yeah, so you know what, Let's start by talking about Elon mush Or, as Trump calls him Leon Leon started out caring about climate or never cared about climate. Because this guy was supposed to be a climate guy. Theoretically at one point.
Yeah, there was like a point years ago, maybe like twenty eighteen, where I remember he went on a podcast and talked about climate change. I don't think this was the one where he got really high, like the Joe Rogan one, but he like it might have been, I don't quite remember, but he got really emotional about climate change. He's called it like the greatest threat to humanity, and I remember in this podcast appearance he actually got a
little choked up and a little teary about it. So he has at least expressed like he cared about it. But that's also I think it's important to like put a little caveat on that and be like that's also been central to his business model, like all being, climate change is part of Tesla's business model. He's always really wanted to be seen as a world savior, and I think climate change played a really good part into framing
himself that way for a long time. And just right now it's not really beneficial to him in that way.
So make it make sense, he just doesn't really give a shit about climate change.
I think that when you're insane.
Right, you think there's more. It's sort of a mental health issue.
Not even a mental health issue, but more of like a megalomaniac issue, where you really believe that you are the world's savior. You can really convince yourself that what you're doing is net positive and net good. Like, for instance, there are a lot of people who really think that, you know, we can solve climate change by let's say, just using carbon capture and increasing the use of gas, which when burned emits less than coal. Right, that's misinformation.
There's no scientific scenario that says just those two things can meaningfully slow climate change to a degree where it's like not your revers like not you know, more than ninety seven percent of the coral reefs on Earth dye, right, But there are people that really believe that, and they're not lying, and they don't not care about climate change.
They just believe misinformation. And to a degree, sure, I like, I can't tell you whether Elon Musk really cares about climate change or not, but I do think that he's like high on his own supply of what can happen to solve climate change. And the problem is that most of these people like just aren't listening to scientists. They're listening to themselves and to what sounds good to them.
That is the idea that he's the central play right. The other people in the world are NPCs, non playing characters, so the rest of us don't really exist. Right.
That's my like, you know, armchair psychoanalysis of the situation, because I've definitely written articles unheated before about just speculating. You know, Jeff Bezos must be a megalomaniac, right, like these billionaires who say, like I'm devoting one hundred billion dollars to climate solutions, you know, saying to themselves like, well, so we can't have democratic past climate policy, but I
will decide what can solve climate change? Right, I can the decision through my foundation what solves this global problem. It's like in my mind, I'm like, well, you have to be you have to be some like absolute megalomaniac to think that you know best for all of us for a problem that you don't even experience as a super person.
So here we are. We're on the precipice of another Trump admin climate hard to imagine that EPA, although he did not put a oil and gas and it was a coal lobbyist. The last time Scott threw it. This time, we have a Republican friend of Trump's who failed to win the New York governorship. But does it in your mind, does it seem like the EPA there's no world in which Trump cares about climate more this time than last time. Right?
I don't think so. I mean, I do think that some people think that because Elon Musk is in there, that perhaps things will get better.
I'm sorry, I forgot his name. Lee's Alden, right, Lee's Elden, friend of Trump who needed a job, gone.
Right, who has puzzlingly little experience an environmental policy, right.
But at least is not a coal lobbyist. If you're going to just say.
One thing, sure, but you don't need a coal lobbyist at the head of the EPA to have the coal industry run the EPA. You just somebody who is going to say yes to the coal industry. And that's what Trump has to in all of these fields, which are
yes people. And I think what Trump probably realized from the first administration, the clown buffoonery of having Scott prew It Andrew Wheeler at the head of the EPA was that you know, they were former coal lobbyist former fossil fuel lobbyists doing buffoonery things, doing former coal lobbyist things, right,
So it made a good headline. I think probably Trump has realized that without the buffoonery of Scott Preuit getting like a sixteen buying like a sixteen thousand dollars private phone booth for his office, for all those vintage you know, people who remember what happened in the first Trump administration, Like, without that, the reality of dismantling environmental regulations is pretty boring.
And the only thing that makes it not boring is if you have people accurately talking about the stakes of that of the dismantling, but the minutia of regulatory of dis mantling the regulatory state is like a sucky story that nobody really cares about wanting to listen to if you've got like other crazy stuff happening to distract you elsewhere.
And that's what like Trump is there for, right, Trump is there at the nucleus and at the center to be the big distracting things, saying things that you've never heard before, you know, making splashy headlines like that. So I don't really see much of a difference. And I also think it's important. This is like a weird rabbit hole. I'm wondering if you're.
Down, No, please please, please do it.
This is an Elon Musk rabbit hole. So I feel like you're gonna be anything that's.
Not us for twenty minutes. Talking about how fucked we are is good, okay, because nobody wants to hear that.
No, and we're not fully fucked, but we can. We can get into that later too. But the rabbit hole that I went down that I would love for you to come with me for just a hot second, is about, well, why I don't think Elon Musk is really like going to be the climate savior of this administration. And it just has to do with like, I think that Elon Musk is sort of like a coal baron in disguise.
Yes, that makes a lot of sense, but say more.
I know that some people would hear that and be like, what are you talking about? He literally is an electric car.
Guy, which is why I want you to say more.
Exactly so in the US, electricity demand is skyrocketing in art because of electric cars and electrification in general, but also because of data centers Bitcoin.
I knew you were going to say bitcoar.
Yeah, I'm so sorry.
Good. I really hate bitcoin.
No, I'm like super resentful that I have to know anything about it. Yeah, yeah, me too, Like I'm resentful that I have to talk to you about it right now. But like, yeah, bitcoin artificial intelligence things that Musk himself is like deeply invested in, particularly bitcoin as well as electric cars. Now, electrification is supposed to be, you know, from a climate perspective, it's supposed to like take you
away from fossil fuels. But because electrification is needed for like you need electricity to power a data center, for AI and for bitcoin mining, right, So that is like the huge increase in demand for electricity because of all three of those things is saving coal. It's prolonging the
life of coal plants. Like we listen to like a heated will listen to like coal company investor calls right like yeah, you know, like the CEOs will openly talk about how the AI boom and the bitcoin boom and the electric car boom is like helping coal, right, is like you know, improving their forecast. It's also highly increasing demand for gas. So well, the electricity needed is helping the fossil fuel industry now I was like, Wow, that's
that's interesting. It wasn't until I heard that, until I learned about that that then I understood why the CEO of one of America's biggest coal companies was donating so much money to Elon Musk's pack, the CEO of Alliance Resource Partners. It's like a huge coal company was one of the biggest donors to Elon Musk's pack to reelect Trump. This coal CEO and Elon Musk were working together very closely, and this was this dude's biggest one time election donation ever.
Alliance Resource Partner CEO. He's made donations before, but he's never made a one time donation as big as he did to Elon Musk. And I was like, well, why would a coal CEO be working directly with Elon Musk? What is their common interest? And they're both of Their common interest is electricity is like increasing demand for electrification and increasing demand for more data processing for more bitcoin.
So it's like I think that for a long time Musk saw his business as electrification electrification to move away from fossil fuels. But now that we need to have so much demand for electrification because of AI and bitcoin. He's seeing that fossil fuels are not his competition, it's important for him to work with them. So I think that's why you see his shift as somebody who used to care about climate changing anyway from fossil fuels and now he's like, I care about climate change, but we
can do it with fossil fuels. That's like that's not aligned with the science because it's just not aligned with his business interests. So he's just a coal baron now.
But it is so crazy because like he has the most money of anyone in the world, So what's the goal.
Oh, just like probably he didn't get enough validation And as a kid, so like more, I keep thinking about.
My priors and how I got here and how bad my optimism problem is. But I just want to be optimistic for a minute. It's like really an illness now, Like if we look at Texas, Texas is now has solar capacity. Can you talk to us about that and maybe why that's a reason not to want to die.
Well, Texas has been like one of the leaders in renewable energy for a long time in the US, and that just keeps happening. That's not going to go away. And one of the things that I hear and that you know, my perriial he hears all the time from just like straight up energy analysts, people that all day are like, you know, be boop with here's what's happening with energy. I don't really care about the stakes either way.
Right, It's an amazing way to be by the way, because it's like, yeah, it's like this is everything, right, Like you have kids, this.
Is that yeah, right. But you know, I love these kinds of people who just like this is their work. They do the nale us as, they silo their brain, like this is this is what is happening.
Right.
They're very bullish that Trump cannot stop the explosion of renewable energy that's happening in places like Texas, in a lot of red states. That's happening because of the Inflation Reduction Act. That's happening because of government investment in renewable technologies.
And I do believe that specifically because of the sources that it comes from, like the beep boop, you know, like it's not just MURTSI groups telling us this this you know, energy analysts, and I think like in particularly places like Texas, which are so affected by climate change, by extreme weather, by hurricanes, especially flooding and heat, and then all of a sudden, like they'll get weird snow
because climate change is weird. Like that. The diversified power grid, like because they have so much renewables, the only reason that their power grid doesn't fail under all this extreme whether there have been multiple instances over the last few years where you know, blackouts have started occurring because use the gas plants can't handle the extreme heat, right, but the wind and solar can. So it's also the opposite of what a lot of like Republican climate denial profossil
fuel pundits will say. They'll be like, yeah, see this is why we need fossil fuels because they fail in extreme heat. And it's really like it's the opposite of what's happening. I think that's the most optimistic that.
We can be, is that, like it may be an unstoppable.
Yeah, truly, the renewable revolution is unstoppable. What is not unstoppable is the growth of fossil fuels in handom. Like renewables can either we can either like add renewables to a plate and like have renewables take up the entire plate or just like pile them on top of a plate where you know fossil fuels are also piling up at the same time, right.
And that makes a lot of sense. And that's what you've said before about Exxon. So talk us through that, right, this idea that oil and gas company people know they're on their way out.
Yeah, well that's why they're so freaking aggressive about their lobbying, about their donations, about pouring efforts into trade groups that will you know, do their pr dirty work for them, because like Exon doesn't want to come out and be like Exon, big oil company, I want to repeal every single like environmental regulation in the US. That's not going to help Exon because Exon, I think I've talked about this with you before. These oil companies, and they've talked
about this in their internal documents. They rely on social license to operate, to continue operating, which is like fancy lingo for the public needs to support their right to exist. Essentially, if they lose social license, then they are in deep shit, as one might say, right, Yeah, they like a for memberships and trade group to like do that advocacy for them.
But because they see the writing on the wall, which means they know that it's like cigarettes, right or flavored vapes everyone's favorite.
Yeah, they know the.
Window is closing, so they just want to stay out there as long as possible.
Right. And at the same time, however, like they'll also buy up a lot of renewables so that they are at least diversified enough so that they have control over the competition, which makes sense.
And then the thinking is, will they make the renewables less renewable because they don't give a fuck or is that really just they just do it because.
I think it's good for them to be I mean, look, the vast majority of growth is going to go like over the next hour many years, This is like not a controversial thing to say, is going to go towards decarbonization and renewable energy, and just like general energy transition sectors, it's good for them to be invested in in those things into any decarbonization, renewable energy, and energy transition sectors.
I don't think that they would tank it just for no reason, but it has to be in partnership with their core business, which is fossil fuel growth, which is carbonization. Like they're making the vast majority of their profits from selling fossil fuels and plastic, right, So they're always going to do that. And I don't think that the growth of renewables is necessarily a threat to Axon unless it's
displacing Exxon. So if they have control of the decarbonization technologies, then they also have control of whether or not it displaces them.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Welcome.
That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and power ticks. Makes Sense