Hello everybody, Welcome into the Fantasy Pros Football Podcast. I'm Ryan Warmley, joined on this Thursday morning. It'll be released on Friday by Pat Fitzmorris and Derek Brown fell Us. It's week eighteen. We have made it, really, we've already made it to the end of the fantasy season for most people. The vast, vast majority of people have already finished their leagues. That's the way you should do it. You should not have a championship game in week eighteen.
If your commissioners set up your league to do so, file a complaints because they did it wrong. Having said that, we still wanted to get together and do a show because frankly, we love doing this show. It's super fun, and we decided to kind of twist it to a twenty twenty five focus. So we're gonna talk a little bit about some of these matchups and you know who we like to win certain games, and maybe we'll touch on a couple of key you know, player individual matchups
here or there. But by and large, this is going to be a very forward looking show, a very twenty twenty five slanted show. Kind of some early thoughts on key questions for the offseason key questions for what we're gonna be doing with rankings next year. That's kind of how we're going to approach it. If for some reason, you do have a matchup this week, I will remind you that all of our weekly consensus rankings and tiers can be found at fantasypros dot com slash rankings. There
are rankings on the site for Week eighteen. Maybe you can use those if you're not in a matchup to look at some betting props, or play dfs, or however you want to approach you. But that's how we're coming into this show. The day after New Years. It feels like a Monday, even though it's a Thursday. Weird time of year. Deebra, how you doing, Buddy?
I'm doing good boys, and happy New Year. Love you boys to death. Thank we were talking about this pre show. I'll be seeing both of you in a little bit over a month. Questionable things might happen Vegas. All I can say is that I hope the powers that be are ready for the bail money.
It will be my first trip to Vegas of my life, and I'm counting on it. Fits to be my Vegas tour guide.
I love Vegas.
Yeah, I've definitely done some time in Las Vegas, worman and we'll be happy to be your shirpa. But yeah, man, you're gonna love it. It's uh it's a big land of make believe with you know, it looks like a kid's playroom come to life with all the giant properties looking so cartoonishly garish and oversized. But uh, yeah, you have to see it to believe it. It's it's a pretty pretty fun time.
Now. Now, when you say you've done some time in Vegas, do you want to be there or you've had a little too much fun there?
No, No, I've never seen the inside of a Las Vegas jail Celle. From what I've heard, you really don't want to. It's not the place to get thrown in a lock up. But yeah, no, I have been there quite a bit. My mom and stepdad actually used to run a trade show that operated like in Vegas maybe two or three times a year, and I helped out with a lot of those shows. So there were a lot of combined business pleasure trips and someboddies and I have an annual trip out there, So yes, I'm pretty
familiar with the town. And know of all the well a lot of the fun things today de bro, I won't say all the fun things to do.
But Bro, you caught the way he phrased that right where he said he the inside of a famous jail.
Still Easy said.
It is no follow up questions for me publicly. Maybe we'll talk about it more on time.
Done, Time done. Time is all I heard.
Let's dive into the show. We're going to go through. I know sometimes we kind of highlight our ten biggest key questions because we're looking at this from a very
forward slant. We're just going to go through every matchup, so we'll be a little quicker on some of these games to try and get through the entire This is the most games we could possibly have because there is no even Thursday night football this week, so all sixteen matchups we were going to at least somewhat touch on, but again very forward thinking, you know, twenty twenty five angle to this. We're going to start on the Saturday slate. First game is Brown's Raven. It's the kind of AFC
North double header that we're getting on Saturday. Those are the only two games before Sunday. So first one, Browns Ravens. Everyone loved Derrick Henry's fit in Baltimore the summer, but there was trepidation about drafting a thirty year old running back who was joining a new team. He is now turning thirty one on Saturday, so tomorrow for when you're likely listening to this, and he's going to enter twenty twenty five coming off of a season where he outscored
every non quarterback except for Saquan and Jamar Jase. He had an awesome season. Assuming he sticks in Baltimore, but is now another year older. Is he back to being a top half of the first round fantasy option fits? Or will you be fading him given that he is now another year older.
I was behind consensus on Derrick Henry my twenty twenty four draft rankings, and that was obviously a huge mistake. So I'm trying to be more respectful with my twenty twenty five draft ranking of Derrick Henry, but at the same time still trying to bake in a little bit of age risk. So I've got him RB six, tentatively behind Saquon Barkley, Bjeon Robinson, Jamier Gibbs, Josh Jacobs, and Devon A. Chan and just ahead of Bucky Irving and
Ashton Genty. So yeah, I mean, I guess that doesn't quite put him in the top half of the first round, because I would also take at least a couple of receivers ahead of him. You know, Jamar Chase for sure, Justin Jefferson for sure, maybe Puka also, and maybe even Brock Bauers. Honestly, I think there's value to Bowers being a first rounder this year. So that puts Henry Moore in the round one, round two turn area. But yeah, I mean, what's what more does the guy have to prove?
Like he was a marvelous fit with the Ravens and looking forward to more of the same in twenty twenty five.
What do you think, Debra.
I think he's gonna be probably the back half of the first round, and that's where he should be somewhere. I mean, depending on your league and set up and stuff like that, like three wide receiver leagues and stuff like that. Could there be few wide receivers that go ahead of him and stuff and pushes him in to the turn of the second round. Sure, I think my bigger takeaway is I'm not fading Derrick Henry. I didn't fade him this year, not gonna fade him next year.
If like this just comes down to he's different man, Like nothing at nothing, efficiency wise, nothing at all, like shows that he's slowing down. I'm old enough to remember after Week one, after the collective was like, oh, he's RB thirty one for the week. Look at all this Justice Hill blah blah blah. Derrick Henry's dust dude. He's he's gonna be inn RB one until he decides to
hang up the cleats. I mean, you're telling me this guy was top twelve in miss tackles forced an explosive run rate yet again this year.
I mean it's it's he says, another game to go, and he's at the second most rushing yards he's ever had in a season in his career. He's at the third most touchdowns he's ever had in a season in his career, and again he has another game to add to that. Like he still like every single week you see there's a package on CBS about the dude's diet and his workout regiment and what in the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year he spends to keep his body right, like thirty one is. It's not like
he's forty. Like I get fading him to a degree.
I don't.
I'm not saying he should be the third overall pick in drafts, but if he's back in Baltimore and there they don't add some other significant name like in the draft or something as a backup to him, I don't see any reason to think he's going to finish under twelve touchdowns next year and another you know, twelve hundred yards like and as as again, assuming he's healthy, that's like worst case scenario, I think. So he will be a very easy first round pick for me.
Did you boys see on the Netflix thing when they broke open the cake and stuff like that and she's handing it to I forget the commentator, but she was handing it to Lamar and there was at all. Yeah, Henry's like, I'm not even that.
Yeah, they're like, nah, well fast baby, Yeah yeah. I mean, I like, I'll put it like this, if he's going in the back half for the first round, he will be my favorite pick in that range. Yep, going into next again, assuming he's back in Baltimore and they don't add somebody else let's look at the other Saturday game here Bengals Steelers. Besides Cincinnati, what is the best fantasy landing spot for T Higgins this offseason? And also what is the worst debro?
I think the best And I was looking at this, and this comes down to, Okay, Well, if T is gonna go somewhere, he's gonna get paid. We should assume that. And I don't think that he ends up back in Cincinnati. I know, I know Burrow wants him back, I know all that kind of stuff. But the Cincinnati owner is a known prude, is a known just you know, rubbing two nickels together, and so I don't think that he's gonna pay T Higgins. They've allowed this to go too far.
For me, this comes out to one of two places as far as the best scenario for him, and that is between two teams that are in the top seven in cap space right now, and that is either Washington or the Los Angeles Chargers. If I have to one, it's gonna be the Commanders. And I think considering everything we've seen out of jayde Daniels, we should all feel very comfortable there is room for growth in this passing offense. Both in play volume and passing rate as well as
Jayden has been absolutely fantastic. On the flip side of that, dude, I do not want to see him end up with the team that has the second most cap space in the NFL, and that is the Las Vegas Raiders, who because of the games they've won recently, have fallen all the way outside of the top five in possible draft spots. As we're recording this, they are eighth in the first round, so they are on the outside, probably looking in for
a quarterback right now. I do not want to invest in a free agent wide receiver going to an offense that is gonna either. Are we playing the Gardner Minshee game again? We play in the Aid and O'Connell game again. I don't want to play those games. So no fe lands with the Raiders. I'm fading T Higgins in twenty twenty five.
Tell us how you really feel, uh fits, What do you think as far as both best fantasy landing spot again setting aside since he has an option, and also the worst.
Well, I mean, I feel like the New England Patriots are almost inevitable here. Like when the sports books start to set odds for where some of the big name free agents land. I kind of feel like it's going to be minus money to bet T Higgins to the Patriots, Like I could see minus one fifty or something. The Patriots badly needed wide receiver, and they have the most salary cap space, so it just seems like the perfect fit and a Drake may T Higgins pairing. I mean,
that sounds pretty good to me. Honestly, it's kind of hard to find a better fit I think among the teams that have a good amount of cap space and need a wide receiver. Although Debro makes a good point on the Commanders. You know, they do have a lot of cap space. Not a bad setup. He'd get to play with Jayden Daniels and he'd have Terry McLaurin to
kind of keep double teams off him. But at the same time, like mclaurin's not the target hog, Jamar Chase is probably an improved target outlook for T. Higgins, So bad landing spots. Debro mentioned if the Raiders no thanks not with their unsettled quarterback situation. The Cardinals have a lot of cap space and maybe they're looking for a number two receiver. Again, no Titans no, So yeah, let's stick with either the Patriots or the Commanders. Maybe the Chargers.
Maybe the Chargers are in play, but yeah.
I'd be really happy with any of those three. What would you guys think about the Panthers neither of you mentioned them.
Well, I would like it only from a volume perspective. I just I'm still we're going to talk about him later. I'm still not sold of how many weapons can Bryce Young support throughout the entire We've seen it with Adam Deeling. I get that, I get that, but I'm still not sold. Like is t Higgins if he goes to Carolina top twenty four guy, probably Well, let's hire season.
Panthers Falcons is the next game on this late so my key question is about Bryce youngs let's just transition to that game. What do you want to see the Panthers do this offseason to help continue Bryce Young's really surprising improvement that we saw in the second half of this season, Debra.
I mean, I mean we're leading into this. I want to see them add more talented wide receiver And this is not a knock. And Jaalen Coker has played fantastic and Veelan has been awesome. We have not seen like immense returns from Xavier la Get and Caroline has been trying the entirety of the season to force feed the ball to him and see what the kid can do. I was I thought though the range of outcomes for him as a prospect was pretty wide. I don't know if we're going to see him actualize the top end
of that possible ceiling. So for me, it's yes at a wide receiver. I think if you add a true number one like Bobby T. Higgins, it's gonna really open up this offense. But I'm gonna go a little bit further down the well and a little bit more boring conversation. They have got to add a center in the draft or in free agency like Austin Corbett. Kde mays.
They are not it.
Man Like, you're talking about how do I help Bryce Shung in the upcoming season? Okay, playmakers, sure, that's the easy answer. You gotta give him freaking time in the pocket. Man Like, we're talking about a quarterback that has faced the twelfth highest pressure rate this season and the sixth
highest pressure rate over expectation. So you want him to develop, You want him to actualize and utilize the weapons around him to the fullest extent, and Dave Canell's to be able to run his offense to the best version he can. Bryce Shung needs freaking time in the pocket. Man at a center.
Please, Carolina, what do you think, Fitz, what do you want to see the Panthers do this offseason? And if it is somebody like T Higgins, how will you be ranking him?
Yeah? To your point where, Yeah, they do need an outside receiver. And Deebro said this too, like Feeling and Jalen Koker both do their best work in the slot and on it. I'd kind of like to see Xavier leget used as a big slot, but that's just not happening on this team because he's really good once he has the ball in his hands, Like getting the ball into his hands is the problem because he did not show much as a route runner, had trouble getting separation,
wasn't especially good uncontested catches this year. So they need another outside receiver, a veteran more dependable than Lagett. I don't know if they're going to be players in the T Higgins sweepstakes, Like I don't know if they have that much cap money to do that and make the defensive improvements they badly need to make because we saw this run defense get trampled all year, and you know,
they could use another cornerback besides j C. Horn. A lot of needs on the defensive wish list for this team. So I don't think they're chasing T. Higgins. Maybe they get an older VET like Amari Cooper, DeAndre Hopkins. Those guys are going to be available in free agency. And then, you know, agree with Debro, keep fortifying the defensive line, center and right tackle like they're set with Ikey. I think he Kawanu and left tackle and the guards Robert
Hunt and Damien Lewis, those guys are fine. But yeah, center kind of a problem. It seems like a lot of teams who are running a gap blitzes on the Panthers in the last few weeks. Right tackle not great either. They could use help there. So yeah, just continue to sort of improve the supporting cast, and I think that starts with a couple of the offensive line spots and an outside receiver.
Yeah, to your point, Fitsie, I agree with you. I don't think they're going to be in the tig and sweepstakes. They have the thirteenth fewest cap space amongst the NFL teams right now.
They have the sixth pick right now. Do you think that's an option for like Ted McMillan, or is that like they're going to go offensive line or defense?
There could be if if it was me in the front office of Carolina, I would be trading down from that pick. You let somebody come up for an offensive lineman or whatever, you know, pick your djur and add some more equity, because like we're talking about, they don't have a lot of cap space to add around a quarterback and really try to see, Okay, what do we can we get out of this quarterback? Is he the face of our franchise moving forward? And you have so
many holes on this roster. So to me, the answer is, I don't care who's on the board, I'm gonna trade back.
It's the most wonderful time of the year for getting in on all of the hoops, football, and hockey action at DraftKings Sportsbook. In the season of Giving, we're being gifted college football and basketball, pro football, in basketball and pro hockey two almost twenty four to seven. So many games every day, so many opportunities to place your first bet. Try betting on something simple like picking a team to win. Go to the DraftKings sports Book gap and place your bet.
Week eighteen is always full of some ridiculous spreads. It's difficult to know who's going to try to win and who isn't, who's even playing and who isn't. But there's at least one game that promises to be awesome. Vikings Lions in Detroit Sunday Night Football NFC one seed is on the line. That game is going to absolutely rule. Lions are laying two and a half points at home in that one. Total is a ridiculous fifty six and
a half. It was up at fifty seven at one point on DraftKings Lions and odds are subject to change, but this is going to be an amazing finale to the regular season. And here's a gift for all new customers. Bet five dollars to get one hundred and fifty dollars in bonus bets if your betwins. So download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code Fantasy pros. That's code Fantasy pros for new customers to get one hundred and fifty dollars in bonus bets if your bet wins when you
bet just five dollars. Happy holidays from DraftKings. The Crown is yours.
Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler in New York call eight seven seven eight hope and WY, or text hope and WY four six seven three six nine In Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling called eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino in Resorting, Kansas twenty one and over. Agent eligibility varies by jurisdiction, Void and Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward.
Bonus bets expire one hundred and sixty eight hours after issue ins four. Additional terms and responsible gaming resources see DKNG dot co.
Slash bball fits. Let's go to Commander's Cowboys. How many quarterbacks will you be ranking ahead of Jayden Daniels next year?
Just too Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, and I do think there's a conversation to be had about the rankings of Jade and Daniels, Joe Burrow and Jalen Hurts. I think different people might have those three ordered differently, and you know, Patrick Mahomes maybe just outside that group, but for me, he's number three.
What do you think Debrow? Obviously you've been the Jane Daniels guy from day one.
Dude, it's it's Lamar and it's Allen. That's the only guys that are definitively over him Burrow. It's a conversation of weapons. What do they do this offseason? Is tea back? Is he not? If he's gone, that I can't rank Burrow ahead of him is amazing, like as Burrow has
been this year. Yeah, I think Daniels, and also we're going to make some assumptions that like Washington is going to add some more talent on the offensive side, whether that's offensive line, playmakers round Jane Daniels, dude, he's he's a top three quarterback this next season.
I will not be drafting any Joe Burrow next year in the range he's gonna be going because I'm just so completely convinced in the war of like pocket passers versus mobile guys that I'm not taking a pocket passer unless he can do what Burrow has done this season. But I'm not gonna bet on that happening. Again, he has played as well as you can possibly play. He has two superstar weapons. I'm just gonna assume there's gonna be some inherent regression, even though like Burrow's a superstar.
It's not a knock on him. But if you do not have the legs in terms of your fantasy value that you're adding, I'm just not gonna gonna invest in you where Burrow is gonna be going because of what he did this year.
So I don't want to bet against Burrow the player and the talent. And I'm gonna make this correlation for a quarterback that everybody was in on that we saw smash last year, there was a top five guy, And if the weapons get worse than Cincinnati, could Burrow have And I'm not gonna we're not I'm not equating injuries into this, okay, but could Burrow have a Dak Prescott type twenty twenty five. That's if it's only Chase and the rest of the weapons are me we're going to
walk into twenty twenty five. Chase is the wide receiver one, Burrow is the top top five to seven quarterback. Blah blah blah blah. And then see it's a house of cards.
It's a good comparison. Actually thought you were gonna say differentquarter. I thought you're gonna say C. J. Stroud, because he Stroud was the guy that was of the pocket passers you know, outside of Mahomes, was going like higher than anybody in drafts this year, and there was obviously injuries in his receiving corps to the point where you know, it didn't even have Nico the whole year, but it was really just Nico who was actually producing bad offensive line.
Sounds like that could be possibly a similar situation that Burrows in next year. Burrow is a superstar. I'm not saying he's, you know, in real life football on that level, but from fantasy again, where he's going to be drafted, I just think I'm gonna have very little interest in him. Fits you, this is kind of turned into a Burrow conversation more than Jayden Daniels. But what are your quick thoughts on Burrow?
No? I agree. I mean he has over his last eight games averaged like three hundred and thirty one passing yards and three and a half touchdowns a game. Like there have not been many just pure pocket passers who've sustained that sort of production over a long period, like Dan Marino. I mean, and maybe Joe Burrow could be the next Dan Marino, but I would rather bet on
the mobile quarterback. And right now I have Burrow ranked ahead of Jalen Hurts just because the Eagles were so outrageously run heavy, and I do worry about like what if the tush push would ever dry up? But you know, like maybe I should have Hurts ahead of Burrow for that reason. So yeah, those concerns are right now. Even though I have to have someone at number four, I'm not really interest in drafting the fourth best quarterback in the draft.
I was gonna say that this conversation is really highlighting to me that it's a tier of three at the top, and I do think Jenden is behind the other two. So maybe you could say it's a tier of two than a tier one. But I don't think I'm gonna be really interested in hearing cases from anybody behind Daniel's going ahead of him, Like I do think there's a pretty much a gap there which it sounds like we're in agreement on let's go to Bears Packers. I'm gonna
keep this one simple fits. Are you in or out on Caleb Williams in fantasy next season?
I mean I'm out on him in that I don't want him to be my starting quarterback in a one QB league in twenty twenty five, But I might be above consensus on him right now. I've got him at QB sixteen tentatively. And I know there were a lot of red flags about his rookie season. The sack rates, the downfield accuracy not great on either count, but then they are just these moments, man. And I know that six ' three Seahawks Bears game was about as unsightly
as it gets. But there was a throw that Caleb made in that game where he was getting chased and I think he's like running in he kind of throws back across his body and just fires a dart into the end zone that Romo Dunes caught and like one of those throws. I'm sitting alone in my living room and you know, exclaim, holy bleep, like it was a crazy good throw. So yeah, like I'm I want to be optimistic. I just don't want to miss my top QB in a one QB league. That's it. Super flex
fine leagues where it makes sense to draft a backup quarterback. Fine, So I don't know QB sixteen. I don't want to be too far below consensus on him either, because the dude definitely has talent. We saw it in Spurts in twenty twenty four.
Yeah, I mean I love a second year quarterback, you know, Theoretically with the ninth pick, if that's where they end up taking offensive linemen, maybe they get Ben Johnson or Liam Cohen or somebody that we like offensively as their head coach, and I might be feeling a little bit differently, deebro, how are you kind of thinking about Caleb Williams right now for fantasy specifically?
And what if they get Mike Vrabel.
Babel's a good coach.
Yeah, I know that, but I mean, you know is but yeah, I mean this comes down to I think I'm just gonna put the blanket on this and just say I'm out. I'm out there. There's other QB two's that I'll want next year outside of Caleb Williams are the flashes of play making, a building out, a playmaking ability outside of structure. There, Yes, can he make the
ridiculous playground plays? Yes? I worry about Caleb entering the NFL, and why I caught so much flak during the pre draft process was it's not the circus stuff that I worry about with Caleb, it's the fact that he tries to rely on that every single freaking snap instead of staying on schedule, playing within structure. And his numbers on a per drop back basis have been absolutely horrendous this year. Like, outside of forty five qualifying quarterbacks right now, he is
twenty seventh and highly accurate throw rate. That's behind Snoopuntley. Just to give some context, he's forty second in catchable target rate. The only quarterbacks with at least one hundred dropbacks this year that are worse and catchable target rate, which I mean, we could talk about the offensive line, we can talk about all those things. From a standpoint of his abilities as a passer, he has been horrible
on a per dropback basis this year. The only quarterbacks with a lower catchable target rate than Caleb Williams this year Drew Locke, Anthony Richardson and freaking Dorian Thompson Robinson. That is not a list you want to live.
On very quickly. Does he asked you no same question, Romadonese.
I'm in depending on his ADP. If he climbs higher than like mid wide receiver three low in wide receiver three territory, then I'm out. I love the talent, but it's not like he's been great I just talked about. I am incredibly worried about his quarterback since Week nine eighty qualifying wide receivers dudes outside the top forty five wide receivers in separation rate and route win rate. So even outside of Caleb issues, Rome has not been the guy that I hoped he'd be so far. So far in the NFL.
Fits, I've gotten wide receiver thirty five, like we saw some flashes of the good stuff and how reliable his hands are and how good he is at the catch point. And the Bears are probably gonna let Keenan Allen walk in free agency, and I wouldn't be surprised if they dealt DJ Moore, who was like clearly unhappy all year. It's weird. DJ Moore has played with some terrible quarterbacks throughout his career, and I've never seen him look unhappier than he did this year with the Bears. So there's
some sort of issue going on there. I just think Rome's going to have a clear path to targets next year, and I still believe in the talent.
Help shape the Fantasy Pros Football podcast. Take our quick, easy survey at fantasypros dot com slash survey and share your feedback to help us improve. All it takes is just a minute or two at Fantasypros dot com slash survey. All right, guys, let's cud a Jaguars Colts, which is a game we would normally not care at all about. So we're definitely looking at the twenty twenty five slant here,
Jamar Chase, Justin, Jefferson, Amanas Saint Brown. That is the entire list of wide receivers with more Fantasy points than Brian Thomas Junior this season in half PPR scoring fits. Is he a locked, in no doubt about it, twenty twenty five first rounder.
I can't say that he is, but I think it's close. I think he'll be a first rounder in basketball drafts without question, where the wide receiver position is emphasized, and probably more of an early second rounder and most conventional redraft leagues home leagues, I've him ranked wide receiver six, like I've got him ranked one spot ahead of Nicocollins. I would rather Brian Thomas Junior than Nico and two spots.
I had a Malik Neighbors as college teammate who was pretty fantastic this year, so I actually debated putting him ahead of Im and Ross Saint Brown, who I've at wide receiver five. Like seeing is believing with this guy man, and like not an ideal quarterback situation frohim the whole season, like Trevor Lawrence is fine, and I think he'll work
well with Trevor Lawrence. But like he checked every box man route, running, reliable, hands, awesome after the catch, can make the spectacular grab, toughness, durability, like he was just a total package man. Like really impressed with Brian Thomas Junior. And I feel very silly for having ranks like Xavier Worthy and Kean Coleman ahead of him in rookie rankings last year.
I well, first of all, if he's going in that range, like I'm gonna be feeling some kind of way if I'm starting a draft with like Derrick Henry and Brian Thomas Junior at the turn I'll be very excited to be in any leagues like that. Yeah, I was. It was a real lesson for me in terms of Dynasty rookie rankings last year that I I liked Brian Thomas Junior.
He was my wide receiver for the entire way, and then I was very much seduced by the idea of Xavier Worthy sliding into the Tyreek Hill role in the Chiefs offense, and I ended up taking Worthy over Thomas in a league where I really the thing I need more than anything is an alpha receiver. And obviously I have a ton of regret and fomo about that, and
you know, everybody makes mistakes drafting here and there. But it was a real lesson in terms of, like, if you just think a guys that good, like, don't get
overly seduced by the situation. And we saw it to an even more extreme where not only is like Worthy, you know with Mahomes, Brian Thomas Junior was with Mac Jones for a large part of this year, like not even Trevor Lawrence, but like one of the worst quarterbacks who've seen recently and again Chase Jefferson Saint Brown are the only people who outscored him at the position this year. That is insane. Debro, What do you think about his twenty twenty five ranking.
I don't think he's a first rounder, but I think that he should not fall out of the second round. Looking at how the offseason is going to you know, play out and stuff like that. Like maybe I'll say this is polarizing. I still want to have like AJ Brown, Nico I still want Nico Collins, even Mike Evans, Like no, Chris Goblin probably next year. Mike Evans is not slowing down at all. Baker Mayfield is playing some of the
best football of his career. Still want him above him, Like, it's not that I don't like Brian Thomas Junior and just quick on the on the prospect conversation about him, I was notably lower on him enterant what during the prospect season, NFL draft season. But really what this comes down to is Brian Thomas Junior as a prospect and the Brian Thomas Junior that we've seen in the NFL are two different players. And my estimation his growth as a route runner and what we've seen at like the
total package out of him in the NFL. I thought there was a way he could get there. But to see how fast he's done this in his rookie season as a player that if you looked at his LSU prospect profile, he had one monster year. On a per route basis, it was really good. It wasn't great. He was running a lot a very limited route tree. The physical attributes were there, but his growth as a route runner, his growth as an X receiver this year has been insane.
So I also want to give This is not me throwing cold water or backing up pre draft takes, but I want to give credence to the growth that we've seen from the prospect of the player that we're talking about right now. So I think he firmly should be in the top two. Round conversation Round one is a little bit aggressive.
For me quickly. I do want to hit on the Colts because I think, just given how excited a lot of people were for Anthony richardson coming into this season, we have to at least talk about the fact that it was you know, the injury included, you know, as part of this calculus, but he was benched and his dealt with injuries and it was a really, really poor season.
So de roach, just very quickly, what do you want to see out of the Colts this offseason to give you more confidence in drafting Anthony Richardson next year?
Man, I have and I'll own an l here. I was incredibly high on Anthony Richardson. I thought he was going to take leaps and bounds and see some growth as a passer. This year, it has not happened. I thought that we've seen small flashes of that, like the Jets game. I walked out of that game being like, wow, like he's he looks better, and then we saw regression in the next few games after that. Dude, I don't know what's gonna help me. I'll be very honest about
this in this conversation. I don't know what's gonna help me give me more confidence in drafting a rich cult walking into next year, because if they keep this coaching staff, the luster and the glow on Shane Styking has really fallen off this year. This offense has looked disjointed. This team has looked like they very unmotivated, very uninspired, Like you just went out and got the ever living crap beat out of you by the Giants in a must
win game. I know I'm like a lot of like bro science here, but like, dude, like there is a lot of bad vibes, Like I don't even know if this coaching staff returns for twenty twenty five, and if that's the case, we're talking about Anthony Richardson with another coach, another new coordinator, another system players, I mean people at the maybe at the top, and the coaching staff. They did not draft him, so even less like reasons to kind of see this through. Man, Like, I don't know
what this offseason is gonna bring. That's really going to give me more confidence in looking at this offense and Richardson for twenty twenty five, Fitz.
Just gotta help that another offseason of like OTAs and training camps and with stich In, if indeed he does stick around, can help his proficiency as a passer, because we knew that was going to be the issue with him coming in. He just had so little game experience, such a little game experience that like he was going to be behind the curve as a passer and now we're just hoping he can kind of get to average because it's not personnel. The Colts have a really good
offensive line. They have a good receiver corps, like could be a real plus receiver corps next year. If ad Ni Mitchell takes another step forward, I mean maybe they could get him a real tight end. But you know, maybe Jilanie Woods comes back healthy that could solve that problem.
So yeah, I mean you just have to hope that eventually, like the experience helps him because he's he's got the arm talent and he's shown it in flashes, but he just has to get better about reading defenses, the little things. So I'm still cautiously optimist about his career.
Actually, it's good to Bill's Patriots. If the Pats use their draft capital and salary cap space to address offensive line and receiver. We talked about see Higgins already. Maybe they're a team that gets McMillan, although they have the first pick. Baby, that's Travis Hunter. However they do it, whether it's drafts or free agency, if they address offensive line and receiver, how many quarterbacks fits will have a higher potential ceiling in fantasy than Drake may.
Oh Man pretty much. The ones we talked about earlier were Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Jane Daniels, Joe Burrow, Jalen hurts Patrick Mahomes. That's about it. I've got Drake May rank QB ten for next year.
Wow.
By the way, I'm not even sure I'll put again somebody like Burrow in that conversation. It's strictly talking fantasy in terms of pure like fantasy ceiling Like to me, like, I don't really see a scenario where somebody like Burrow without the running is ever QB one in a season. I could Drake May being QB one in a season with what he does at the legs again, wide receiver, offensive liner address.
Yep, May didn't make his first start into what week six, and he's already got over four hundred rushing yards and a couple of TV runs. So yeah, I mean he give him a full season as a starter, it's gonna be up over six hundred rushing yards, maybe seven hundred, that coupled with what he can do as a passer if he gets some legitimate receipt. This is a dude who's been operating with like Kaishan Booty as his best wide receiver or sorry that's disrespectful to Pop Douglass, but
like he doesn't have a real outside receiver. I mean, like they are going to draft a receiver, and they're going to sign a receiver at the very minimum, So he is gonna have a much better group of pass catchers next year. And like he's already been pretty impressive as a pass catcher with his mediocre group of pass catchers.
And like, again, I'm not saying that he should be ranked as a top five quarterback, but if the question is like pure upside, like it's hard for me to not watch may and see I'm not saying he's as good as Josh Allen, but like, stylistically the type of quarterback Josh Allen is that is so great for fantasy given what he's who pushed the ball down the field, he can run. He only has two rushing touchdowns this year.
If they decide to use him more near the goal line, I could see him having like a big boost there. Like again, pure ceiling, I'm like, I'm just in love with watching Drake may Like from a fantasy perspective, Debro, what do you think?
I think you guys are a little bit higher on me than Drake may Like as I'm kind of like coming up at quarterback rankings because I haven't done my full twenty twenty five rankings, but on the fly, like I've got Drake May as QB fourteen that feels right, and the rushing aspects of it are definitely there, Like we're talking about a quarterback eighth and rushing yards fifth and rushing yards per game, So can he get there with the high end ceiling in that aspect. Possibly. Also
you've had Alex Van Pelton. I really wonder like there's a lot of stuff coming out of New England like they want to keep Mayo and stuff. I'm not high on Alex Van Pelt as a coordinator, so I really hope they just got the coaching staff, but it's probably not gonna happen. But AVP did talk about them not using quarterback runs a ton this year because of it
they're not competitive and putting may in harm's way. I do have some serious reservations in one off season because there has been nothing that's happened in the draft or fronted front office, any of that free agency, all that kind of stuff to this point. That gives me a lot of faith that New England could really turn this around in one off season. Like look at their last draft class, guys, Javon Baker doesn't even see the field. Jamen Polk was a horrible pick at where he went.
He should have got like he should have gone in the fourth round. And so if they signed some guys a T. Higgins, maybe another veteran wide receiver, could I see the path? Sure, if we're going to talk about do I trust New England to draft guys and for that to work, I got a little bit less faith.
I think. I think if they're if I'm trusting a wide receiver edition that they've made in the draft, it's because they've made that pick in the first round. Now, now that they have the first overall pick as it stands right now, maybe that's different because I don't think they would take like a McMillan there. It would be somebody like Travis Hunter. If it's a receiver who is.
A good enough player to take in the freaking second round.
So yeah, but like teams miss on on guys in that range all the time, Like if they if they're drafting a receiver in the top ten, I will probably like assume that receiver is going to be a valuable addition. Yeah, I think I think it's fair to be worried if if they don't draft a receiver until round three or four and then say, oh, we've we've addressed the position. I think that's where I would be more on your side,
debro And and not really on board with that. But I think in terms of ranking him for next year, it's reasonable to be, you know, in that ten to fifteen range, Like, I think that's even maybe someone consider aggressive. But in terms of like the best case outcome is like again in fantasy like, there's just not many quarterbacks that I think could could be higher.
I'll throw this roll fast and go ahead. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. No, no, go ahead, Drake May or bow Knicks next year.
I was just gonna ask the exact same thing, man, Yes, yes, we've been.
And that I'll take. Oh god, it's gonna sound painful. I'm gonna take bo Nicks like what we're hoping out of Drake May. We already saw it last year with bo Nicks, Like I don't be hoping for me.
The answer to that question is gonna be really dependent on what the Patriots do this offseason. If the Patriots largely run it back, then I will be one hundred percent on bon Knicks. But if they, let's say, just as an example, sign a T. Higgins and draft a quality offense and what like, I will feel differently in that scenario. So it's gonna be really dependent on this offseason.
Right give give Drake maya T Higgins tat McMillan combo, and I'm feeling pretty good about Drake may over over Bonnicks. But you know, like it's a tough call for sure, and bo Nicks, especially with the development we saw or have seen from Marvin Mins the last couple of weeks, like a Min Sutton combo looks pretty good. Maybe add one of these premium tight ends to the mix in the draft. It's actually a pretty good year for tight end.
What if T Higgins goes to Denver because Denver's got the twelfth month, twelfth most cap space.
I don't see it. Yeah, I don't think they're gonna They're not gonna do it if they.
If they draft like Warren though, the tight end out of Penn State like that will be really appealing. Yeah, all right, you interesting, interesting conversation. I love that you guys are going to ask the exact same question. Let's go to Giants Eagles and we'll try and go a little more quickly because we still have a lot of games to go through. How many players can you make a reasonable case for drafting ahead of Saquon Barkley in twenty twenty five drafts? Debro two?
Maybe, I mean, really it's it's a pack of three to maybe four players, Like I think it's Jamar Chase, at think it's definitely Bejean Robinson, And this comes down to age and stuff like that, But also like, I don't think we've seen the best out of Bejean yet. I think we're the line of like whether it's three or four top five comes down to what do we see out of Justin Jefferson next year? And do we get a fully healthy season out of Pookin ta Kuoh.
So I think it's top five, But I mean, if you were gonna tell me he's top three and you're only take our top two and you're only taking Chase ahead of him, if anybody like, I'm not gonna fight you on it, I guess.
He's gonna go top two in most drafts. But I'm just kind of trying to frame it as like who you could even make a case for? How how one hundred percent, you know, locked in that.
Is chasing Bejhon for me, Yeah, that's the case.
You know you mentioned fully healthy with Pooka. What if we go into next season assuming that Christian mccaffery's fully healthy again.
No, I'm not going down that, not doing it again?
Nope, fits what do you think.
Let's talk about him later. But as far as uh Barkley go, like right now, I would take Jamar Chase over him, and that is the only guy in half point PPR, and I think in full point PPR, these other guys, well Bijon. I'm not gonna argue with anyone who wants to take Bijon over Saquon. And in full PPR, I think you can make the case for Jefferson or
Puka Nikua over Sequon. But otherwise, I mean, the infrastructure in Philly is just so good, like Saquon running behind that offensive line, it's almost unfair.
I mean, I mean, any case against Saquon outside of Chase so I think, is in that same level. But any case against Saquon is strictly a case of twenty eight year old running back. I'm worried that he's gonna get hurt because if you guarantee the entire league was gonna stay healthy this year. I don't see how you can make a case for anybody really besides Chase ahead
of him. Like the fit is so sublime with Philly and he obviously, I mean he if he played this week, he was going to probably break the rushing record, Like how could you.
He would have broken him broken in the second quarter, Like it'll really upset that we're not seeing him break that record. Understand all the reasons, but I still think it's it's blasphemous.
On the Giant side, I'm just kind of curious with Molik Neighbors, like how much your twenty twenty five ranking is going to be dependent on what the Giants do at quarterback? Like we've seen like Neighbors is has I think it's the sixth most eighth most receiving yards this year, and that was with some injury stuff. That was with
terrible quarterback play. So like it feels like there's a volume based floor for Neighbors, even if the quarterback position isn't totally resolved now that the Giants aren't picking first overall. But I'm curious kind of how wide the gap is fits in what your rankings will look like with him in terms of if they were to I don't know, sign Sam Darnold or draft shooter standers versus kicking a can down the road of the position.
Well, despite how bad the quarterbacking has been, he's got one hundred and four catches and eleven hundred and forty receiving yards right now. The only quarterback who would make me feel sgnificantly better about Neighbor's situation is maybe Sam Donald. Otherwise, Like, I mean, I think this is a terrible quarterback class. I don't think Shadu or Sanders or cam Ward are going to be light in the world on fire as rookies, and I don't really like any of the other free
agent options available. So yeah, I mean, like, maybe if they signed Sam Donald, I'm bumping him up one spot ahead of Nicocollins. But otherwise I'm locking him in at quarter wide receiver eight.
That's really impressive, you know, to be putting him there, even given a quarterback secution deeper. What about you? Is it?
I mean, it's impressive.
I'm say it's impressive from neighbors, like he isn't.
I mean, yeah, I mean, he's the wide receiver six and fantasy points per game right now. And I really want to stress this because I think because of how these two wide receivers have finished the year, I think we are giving a ton of shine and it is deserved. I'm not throwing cold water on this. We were giving
a ton of shine to Brian Thomas Junior. But in the conversation it's getting lost in the sauce of how freaking good Malik Neighbors has been in his rookie year with worst quarterback play the entire freaking season, he has outscored Brian Thomas Junior with horrible quarterbacking play. Look, I think Malite Neighbors is a wide receiver one next year. I think the question of where you want to rank him as a wide receiver one comes down to the
quarterbacking play. But I do believe that. I mean, you tell me this, guys, with the hype that Brian Thomas Junior has gotten in the production we've seen over the last three or four weeks, where do you see their ADPs? I'm telling you right now, I think Brian Thomas Junior we're going to walk into twenty twenty five and he is going to be drafted ahead of Milite Neighbors in almost every draft, and I can't tell you that that's right.
I think they're going to be like neck and neck for ADP.
I think it's do you think Malik will go ahead of Brian Thomas Junior in most drafts? I don't think it happens because of the quarterback play and stuff.
And it depends on it depends on who the quarterback is for the Giants.
And people you know should remember that with the one hundred and four catches Milik Neighbors, has he missed that time with the concussion? Like that's the crazy part about it. So yeah, I mean there's a case to be you can make the case for Neighbors over Thomas, no question.
It's crazy. I was just talking about this with Ericson and Welsh on the Predictions Show this week. There if a'man Ross Saint Brown has a down game this week, there is a very real possibility that three of the top five players in receiving yards this season are rookies.
Chase and Jefferson are not like you're not going to reach them, but the other those three Brian Thomas Junior, Brock Bowers and Melik Neighbors are all inside the top eight, and the other guys inside the top eight are like Jerry Judy, who has bad quarterback play, Ceedee Lamb who's not playing anymore. So, if I'm sint, Brown has a bad game, and those other three have good games, not
even insane games, just good games. We could see three of the top five receiving yards leaders this season our rookies.
Common thread, common thread between all three of those players is their offenses all just fell apart around them and they got hyper targeted. And I'm not saying that like, look, I am a firm believe that the targets are earned and that is a reflection of talent. But that's the common thread about all three of those guys. They were the unquestioned dude of their passing game.
My takeaway is, how did lsu ever lose a game last year? With Jandon Daniels, Malik Nighbors, and Brian Thomas.
Junior defense their defense, He's not exactly air tight.
Yeah, next game, Saints Bucks. This one I'll keep simple. Bucky Irving is Dynasty RB.
What fits six RB six six aw Debra.
I got him at RB nine. I saw ecr as him an RB ten I think the conversation for him starts probably around RB six and he's Kyrien Williams two point zero. Man. The college production was there, the tackle breaking metrics were there. I liked him as a prospect to an extent. I will say that like I got caught up in, like, okay, the testing and falling in
the NFL draft and stuff like that. I think there's a bigger conversation than we need to go back and have about prospects and stuff like that when it comes back to these running backs that a lot of this tackle breaking metrics in college. If the testing isn't amazing, but the tackle breaking and everything else in the and the analytical profile looks really good, we need to give these guys a little bit more grace and a little
bit more faith. And the last thing I'll say is Bucky fell into the perfect opportunity as far as like run game skill set. You just stuck him in an outside zone runs game scheme like he could have done okay, but I don't think it would have been like what we've seen the Bucks saying we're gonna stick you in gap and allow you to run counter and like get you downhill and allow you to get to the second level has been absolutely freaking fantastic for him.
So RB six that the five ahead Bijon Gibbs, h Chen Saquon. I'm assuming even with the age and Taylor or Breceau, still who's the five?
Brice Sall And I'll probably have Ashton genty ahead of him too when I work the rookie class into that.
Genty Like, if he goes to the right spot, I think you can make a really strong case for even as high as RB three in Dynasty.
But what about your boy Chase Brown? I think it's a very interesting conversation too, Fitzy like, I've got him right. I've got him right ahead of Bucky because if he keeps the CMC role that he had this last year.
I just don't want to kid myself into thinking that the Bengals won't add another running back.
Okay, Texans Titans, Debro, Are we going to be ranking Texans players as if we're expecting the twenty twenty three version of the offense or the twenty twenty four version of the offense when we get into twenty twenty five.
I mean, really, what this comes down to is who we really talking about ranking though, like Tank is gonna be sidelined or hampered for most of the next season. We don't know who the other wide receiver in this offense is gonna be, maybe the resigned Deontay Johnson, probably not bringing back Steph Diggs. Dalton Schultz has been a ghost.
So really it comes down to the big ranking conversations of this offense come down to Stroud, Mixin and Nico, And I think Nico and Stroud are both I mean a Nico and Mixon are both gonna be very high up the list as they should be walking into next year. So I mean, I'm gonna kind of look at this offense is probably a middle ground between those two.
Well, where do you think Mixon will be ranked? Because he finished with quite a whimper compared to I mean, he looks like a league winner for really the most like what the first two and a half months of the season, and then was one of these single biggest letdowns of the Fantasy playoffs. I mean, his his totals in weeks fifteen sixteen seventeen were five point six seven
point one, three point nine Fantasy points. That's in standards a little maybe a little bit higher in half but it was single digits in all three games of the Fantasy playoffs, so he really really burned managers. Do you think people are gonna be ranking him aggressively next year?
I mean, I think he's gonna be a top fifteen running back. And if he's not a top fifteen running back, then I'm gonna be drafting him everywhere like I did this offseason, because I think everything that could have gone wrong in this offense this year went wrong. The end we could talk about. Yes, strav did not play good this year. The offensive line has been decimated, the wide receiver room has been decimated. We have found out that
Xavier Hutchinson ain't it. And John Metchie, for as much as Dynasty stands, still want to talk about freaking John Metchie. John Metchie ain't it. People. I'm sorry, but you need to cut paid. He's not it. So I think Mix is going to walk in a similar volume, and I think he should be a top fifteen running back. Now we're in that conversation is fully up for debate, But I don't see how he's any lower than that, do you, guys?
I think I've got him fifteen or sixteen, can't remember which it's what.
Do you make of this offense as a whole. Are you kind of thinking we'll see a bounce back to the really exciting, surprising twenty twenty three version, or do you think we're in for maybe another disappointment.
I'm with Debro that I woant to be like halfway in between the two. But for me, it's less about the pass catchers than the offensive line. Like that offensive line was just completely dysfunctional. They give up the third most sacks, and there were games where the pressure was so intense on him, like the Texans Packers game was one that comes to mind where I think the pressures the Packers got pressure on like sixty three percent of Stroud's drop at, Like you can't function as a quarterback
when you're getting that sort of heat. They need to draft an offensive lineman in the first round, and I don't know if they're gonna be able to get a true difference maker because they're gonna be picking twentieth or later and they need to sign at least one offensive lineman. So then even then, like we saw the Bengals like go all in on repairing their offensive line a couple of years ago, and like that first year with the
new offensive line, it didn't work out that well. It took them a year to consolidate all that new talent. So we might see something similar with c. J. Stroud, Like, I still don't know if he's gonna get capable offensive line play next year.
It's go to forty nine Ers Cardinals. What the heck are we doing with Marvin Harrison Junior in twenty twenty five rankings?
Fits?
I'll start with you on this one.
Oh man. I've got him wide receiver thirty, directly behind Jalen Wattle, Jordan Addison, and DeVante Smith and directly ahead of Chris olave Rashi Rice who who's likely suspension is baked into that ranking, and Brandon Ayuk. And like, I don't think Kyler Murray is a great match for Marvin Harrison Junior. So I just can't get him that much higher.
What do you think, tbra I?
I'm with Fitz, Yeah, I think he's gonna be a wide receiver three. It is been from I mean, pick your angle. How you want to talk about this this ricky season for Marvin Rrison Junior. Whether we want to talk about we were too quick to crown Drew Petsing as a smart offensive coordinator and an ascending guy in the NFL who is arguably the run scheme has been good. But this this offense has been sputtering. And yeah, Kyler Murray has played arguably terrible for most of this season
and been a roller coaster. But the other things that he's done with the utilization of Marvin Harrison Junior, like using him on field, stretching routes as a clear out guy and stuff like that is just egregious. Man, Like, I don't understand how you reconcile that. So for me, Marvin Rison Junior is a wide receiver three. I'm not gonna be able to get him higher than that. Like, it's it's the usage, it's Kyler. It's the fact that still since Week nine, he's fifty sixth in separation out
of eighty qualifying wide receivers. So he's got to own some of this too. I have a hard time pushing him oney higher just to play.
Devil's advocate, I know, Like, relative to the hype, it's just a massive disappointment. This is still a rookie receiver in a flawed offense who has over eight hundred receiving yards as a rookie with seven touchdowns as a rookie, Like, that's not in a vacuum, A bad rookie season fits.
Yeah, totally agree and not bad. I agree with what Debro said in that, like the average depth of target for Marvin Harrison Junior and his rookie was way too high. And I wish we saw and I've said this on past shows, I wish we saw them scheme up easy
completions the way the Bengals do with Jamar Chase. Like, yes, Jamar Chase does go deep and hit the home run ball, but like they also throw Jamar Chase bubble screens and little hitches, and like, get Marvin Harrison Junior more involved in the offense that way.
Please design targets, utilize him on a freaking cross or out rounds in like, utilize him as a damn route runner, like please please.
He had under sixty receptions so far this season. That's just not I just don't I just think, I just like, I just don't want to overreact to the fact that, yes, it was a letdown relative to where he was going in drafts, into the hype we had for him. And also the fact that you see three other rookies plus throwing Lad McConkie like, who have been way more productive
as rookies. It's easy to say, like we thought Marvin Harrison Junior was just gonna have this historic, you know, impact and digenerational prospect, and now we're seeing neighbors do that, and Brock Bauers do that, and Brian Thomas Junior do that, and then he's also not doing it himself. But again, like eight hundred yards and seven touchdowns, still another game to go. Is like I I don't want to over so I don't want to swing too far the other way and be too low on him in twenty twenty
five rankings. I think I'm going to be I would guess depending on where he falls that I would I will be slightly ahead of consent on him, not significantly, but slightly for next year.
No, I get that worm, I guess. My big question to counterpoint to you is like, I don't want to fade the talent and things like that. Do you have faith that this offensive coordinator, if he returns and I don't see a reason why how he doesn't, is going to learn the error of his ways and utilize this player in the way that he should.
Be a good point. The situation doesn't change. Why would I think his production will? You know, I guess just have to hope. I guess let's go to Chiefs Broncos. We talked a little bit about him earlier. I do want to talk about Xavier Worthy for all of his struggles this year, He's currently wide receiver thirty and half
PPR scoring on the season. The way he has been talked about for a lot of the year, I would have guessed that was more like in the forties or fifties, but he's like right in the middle of wide receiver three range as a rookie who had a bad season. You know in some respects that actually he comes to wide receiver nineteen. If you just look at since since week eleven, he has been more productive. Now that's in
total scoring, that's not in per game. So there's some noise built in about like some players having buys and this time with injury. But again, the point is like a midrage wide receiver three for the whole season and a midrage wide receiver two since week eleven. Debro is he somebody that you'll want to be ahead of or behind consensus on next year ahead.
I want to be ahead of consensus. Fitz. He already kind of talked about Rashi Rice and baking in this suspension, we also got to talk about coming off the injury and what does that look like, and the fact that what we have seen out of Worthy since week eleven, heck, I mean really, the last three games they've installed him into this twenty five thirty percent target share role, he's responded well, and to your point, Worm, since week eleven, on a per game basis, exier Worthy is wide receiver
twenty four in Fantasy points per game and also has been twenty and separation score since week eleven amongst sixty three qualifying guys. So I think we're seeing a guy that's finding his legs in this offense. And how many rookies, heck, how many players have we seen, just in general struggle beginning their careers or just struggle just in general acclimating to the Andy Reid offense, acclimating to Patrick Mahomes, acclimating to the precision that this offense and these other players
around dictate and necessitate out of the wide receivers. So yeah, I want to be a head of consensus. Unworthy. I think we're seeing we have not seen a guy break out well, I mean, we've seen a few, like Brian Thomas Junior and such, but we haven't seen some like a ton of players go on like a Rashid Rice Amanas Saint Brown type of extended run. Worth. These kind of doing that right now in a very smaller sample size to where I think we need to probably stand
up and take notice of that. But maybe that gets lost in the conversation this allseason.
I'm curious what you think fits I mean Worthy, He's only twenty one years old. Obviously, we've seen like Deebra highlighted players take some time to acclimate to this offense before he's finishing strong. And it's still hard for me to not just be I mean, I know I talked about earlier in this episode not being seduced by the situation, but it's still hard for me to not be like fastest player in the league paired with Mahomes. This is
a good thing for fantasy. I don't feel like I have a really strong sense of where consensus will be next year, so I don't even I kind of struggle to put a number to it. To say this is too high or too low, because I don't know where he's gonna end up. But wherever he ends up, do you expect to find yourself ahead over behind? Consensus?
I feel like I might be behind based on the conversation so far. Like he's one of the hardest guys to rank, or was when I put together my initial twenty twenty five rankings, I came in at wide receiver forty three, And that sounds pretty low when you say that he is, you know, like wide receiver two or wide receiver three in fantasy points per game over the last however long it's been. But we also have to factor in that, you know, we're getting injured guys back,
Chris Godwin, Brandon Ayuk. You know there're gonna be some splashy, well at least one or two splashy rookie receivers coming in so and just a lot of moving parts with the chiefs like DeAndre Hopkins and Hollywood Brown being free agents. Maybe Travis Kelcey retires, Rashi Rice comes back, and I don't know how complimentary the skill sets of Rashi Rice and Holly or Xavier Worthy are because like Xavier Worthy, for all his speed is not really a vertical receiver.
He's more of a catch and run guy. And obviously Rashi Rice is too, so he is a guy I'm going to be pondering a lot in the coming months before we really get into the earnest part of draft season, and like, okay, I need to figure out where exactly I am on him.
De Ra, Where do you think if you want to put a number to it, like in terms of a ranking, Like, again, nobody's going to hold you to this, it's January second, But if you had to guess where you're gonna end up, what do you think? Because I hear I Wiecer forty three from fits and that does sound low to me.
Uh, somewhere in the wide receiver three range. I think somewhere in that wide receiver thirty one to thirty five kind of thirty.
Five, thirty sixty exactly what I was thinking. Yeah, yeah, I.
Mean, because I think FITSI brings up a lot of really good points here. I do think there's a very big possibility considering especially if you look at the contract that Travis Kelsey has, if they go out and they win the Super Bowl this year, I think there's a very real possibility that he retires, and look, Ollywood and Hopkins are not locks to be back in this passing attack, So what are we talking about? What does this passing
attack look like next year? Even with all those moving parts right now, we still know that if Kelsey comes back, he will be another year older. We've seen the falloff in the efficiency this year. And if Rice is suspended who knows how long and is coming back from a major injury Worthy Like when Rice comes back, Worthy could be the wide receiver one, and then they're trying to figure out what do we do with Rashid Rice? Not what do we do with Xavier Worthy.
I will be surprised if they win the Super Bowl if Kelsey doesn't retire, like I'm I'm really that's fair.
Respecting that I agree, he's got so many great things going on.
I can see him retiring even if they do this, even if they fall short, like I could see that happening.
Kind of feels like a very quiet last hurrah for Travis Kelce this year.
It's it's what I'm expecting. Seahawks rams Kyen Williams is somebody that I definitely faded in drafts this year, and he's somebody that we haven't really talked about a lot this year because he's just done what he did the year before. He repeated his breakout success. Is he debro a twenty twenty five first round lock for you?
No, And I was on the side of Kyraen Williams keeping the role on stuff. I know we were, you know, going all the way back to like okay, he was getting kick return and punt return, all kind of mess and the noise and the news that came out. Looking at the season that Kien Williams has had, I find myself a lot more concerned about what his twenty twenty five outlook is. I mean, and he's kept their role the entire year. He's been the engine to the offense.
Those things are not wrong. The worries for me, and this is the conversation that we've had on this show, that we had in the offseason, that we had numerous times, was I think it's a very similar conversation. And looking at him in a way that I looked at Rashad White entering this year, it was the volume in the role are elite. But what we've seen out of Kiren last year before he got hurt, he was awesome on
a per touch basis. The change this year is he's retained the elite role, but his per touch efficiency has fallen off the map. Like forty two qualifying running backs, this dude is outside the top thirty and explosive run rate, mistackles forced, and yards of the contact per attempt. This could be a situation where we all go back into twenty twenty five expecting for him to keep that role.
I'm not going to be shocked if Blake Korum outplays him and takes the role in twenty twenty five, much like Bucky Irving did Rashad White this year.
Fits Where are you ranking Kiren RB eleven?
I'm with de bro not a slam done more of an early second for me than a late first. And like I'm not trying to be a Kyriene hater, I've got him ranked directly ahead of two running backs who you know I love wherem Jonathan Taylor and Chase Brown. So like, I think that burnishes my cred as a non Kyriene Hayter. Let me ask you guys this Kyrien Williams or Christian McCaffrey for next year.
If they're talking about him like he's fully healthy, I think I'll go McCaffrey.
I take McCaffrey and I want to be I want to have Chase Brown ahead of Kyrien Williams. That's the other name that that that jumped out to me, Fitz.
I'm sort of baking in that the Bengals are going to add someone at running back. I really think they will. I just like don't think they can afford to. Chase Brown isn't a big guy. I know he can handle the workload and did when he was at the University of Illinois. I just don't know if like that's the
best business model for keeping him healthy. But yeah, the thing is like, if you put Christian McCaffrey and Kyron Williams, if they're both healthy and both have neutral matchups, I think I'm like ranking Kyri cmc ahead of Kyron pretty much every time there, you know.
So, do you have any any worries about about him next year? Yeah? With us seeing Moore quorum, because that's my biggest thing. Like, I really have a lot of worries about that.
It could be man, I've gotten burn making assumptions about how Sean McVay is going to deploy his running backs before, so.
We all have let's go to Chargers Raiders. I want to talk about talking with a lot of a lot of rookies on this show. A lad mccacky had double digit Fantasy points in seven of his last nine games. He finished exactly one catch shy of a top twelve wide receiver season as a rookie. This is obviously not including Week eighteen, but very close to being a wide receiver one as a rookie, almost under the radar. I feel like, not that people didn't know he's having a
good season, but that productive. If the Chargers make a big addition at the position in the off season, maybe it's Stee Higgins, maybe it's a draft pick, maybe it's something else. Do you think mccacky's going to drop significantly for you in your rankings, Debro, or do you expect him to see good target share again? Really, no matter who they add for next year.
I think depending on what they do in the offseason, and I do think that they're going to either add you know, a ballyho tight end prospect, or they do add a wide receiver. Heck, maybe they add both this offseason. Assuming they only add one talented pass catcher in this offseason, He's going to be a top twenty, top twenty four
wide receiver for me, He's just been flat out fricking awesome, man. Like, no matter what metric you pull about Ladd McConkey, you want to talk about separation score, you want to talk about man coverage, you want to talk about yards per route run, you want to talk about all these different
freaking things, he has been nothing short of awesome. Like since we gave wide receiver eleven in Fantasy points per game and the other thing I'll bring up here real fast because I'm really curious of where fits he sits on this. We've seen Greg Roman kind of like show some different colors this year, Like we've seen high pass rates in some of these games. We've seen higher pass rate over expectation. You add weapons to this offense, the offensive line is good. Could this quietly be a top
twelve passing rate team in twenty twenty five? Dude, if it is, Lad mcconkee, wheels up, baby.
It's yeah. It's crazy that I'm no longer that concerned about the Greg Roman offense, like bogging down the Justin Herbert and the pass catchers in this offense. I've got McConkie ranked wide receiver fifteen. I don't know if there's a potential signing or draft pick who could prompt me to drop McConkie in the rankings more than a spot or two. Maybe T Higgins, that's about it. I don't think there's any other outside receiver in this draft who could do it. I don't think there's any other free
agent wide receiver who could do it. And by the way, where I'm about like the premium tight end possibility or maybe you just mentioned that de bro like, I know Warren is the man of the hour after that performance against Boise State, But Colston Loveland from Michigan to Jim Harbaugh in the Ladys, I know that's the.
Name I keep thinking of too, Baby.
Yeah, that's a great call.
That's the name.
And to your point, FITZI, I think that that brings up something that kind of got like I got lost on. But as you were like unpacking everything, I could make you a really good case that's signing T Higgins or bringing somebody else in there just does nothing but help laid mcconkeye both by. If we have more weapons, we're going to pass the ball more and taking defensive attention
away from Lamb mcconky. So to me, I think there's a better case to be made of Bro, like we should probably be really high on Lamb McConkey, regardless of whatever the hell happens. As all, did you say, d Bro? I know?
Fit said, did you say what where you're gonna rank?
And me think top twenty four wide receiver, probably top twenty, Like I'm with FITZI I think I think the better conversation is probably he should be top fifteen.
I think he's gonna be more likely to be top fifteen for me than top twenty. Like I think, yeah, I mean, obviously it's the same thing.
But like I I heard them high player that somebody in our Dynasty League might have traded four weeks ago.
I don't know, do you really want to bring up the Dynasty League as No, that's all I want to say. I down a in a real nail bighter. I took down our colleague who we've mentioned all the time, Mike Mayer to win the title. So my personally, my productive struggle went quite well because this is year three of the league and I had the number one pick.
To your biggest all season problem is what do I do with Kyle Pitts.
Well, thankfully I have Thankfully I have Bowers, so Pitts is my backup tight end. But yeah, that was That was a fun league, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to That was actually the only league I won this year I got. I had so many teams make the semi finals and then just got wiped out
in week sixteen and seventeen. So it was really nice to win one, especially since it was this kind of Dynasty league against against a bunch of ringers, I mean the guy even the guys who aren't on the show are really sharp that work here, and it was I was very happy to win to win that one.
So shout out to Jonathan and sending you know, various stute. He is one of the hardest people to sit here and negotiate with trades. Shout out to him.
Yeah, Jonathan's great. A lot of what I really like about that league, just as quick aside, is that people are very willing to trade. It is the most most transactions I have ever had in any league I've ever played in Dynasty or otherwise. Like, people are willing to make moves in that league, and I really appreciate that. So yeah, super fun. We'll see if I can go back to back next year. We got two games left here Dolphins Jets. John new Smith was tight end for
this season remarkably. Is this his new normal debro or are we going to look back on this year as an outlier?
I think as the top five tight end, it's going to be an outlier. I think looking at him moving forward as a tight end one or as a top eight to ten guy is probably the better lens to be John ou Smith. Just I just I have the hardest, hardest idea looking at twenty twenty five, and I have the hardest problem of looking at this offense. And just I would love to be in a room with Mike McDaniel and to say, why do you hate Jalen Wattle
so much? Like? Why? Like he has to be a bigger part of this offense moving forward in twenty twenty five, And that to me that bumps John who down a little bit because I just I don't understand why they don't utilize Wattle more.
Where are you going to be drafting John wu Fits.
I've got him ranked tight end seven, So I guess I'm cautiously optimistic he can maintain like mid range tight end one value, like he showed that a tight end can in fact thrive in a Mike McDaniel offense. And I think the Tuo a tongue of I low a preservation plan is to avoid uh, you know, like having him hold the ball for long periods of time and get rid of it quickly, and that plays into John Wu like perfectly, you know, like John Wu catches a
lot of those little quick throws from Tuah. So if the Tua preservation plan continues into twenty twenty five, I think I'm optimistic about how John's going to do.
What what vindication for Arthur Smith that we're ranking Johnny Smith ahead of Kyle Pitts going into next season. Good for you. Evoke his name in the show do it worm John O Smith or Tucker Craft next year fits ooh, John U Debra.
I have them ranked back to back.
I thought that would be a good name.
I'm gonna go John. I'm gonna go Johnny too, only because the floor in this rotation of cast of characters is I don't think it stops, and it's oh, it's so frustrating.
Is Mark Andrews ahead of Johnny for both of you?
Yes, yeah he is. He is.
Hockensoner Johnny Hawk. I think it is a very good I think I would go hot. That's where I'm out, Yeah, I do.
I just want to quickly ask, on the other side of this game, who is the Jets starting quarterback going to be in Week one of twenty twenty five? Debro Man I went back and forth.
This is probably the question, honestly, like prepping for this show that I spent the longest on because I'm like, I I'm gonna go with a Really, maybe this is an uninspiring answer. I think the Jets walk into Week one, or at least camp next year with Tyro Taylor still on the roster, and I think he competes for the starting job with one Justin Fields. Interesting, So maybe maybe I'm off the wall here, But that's honestly, maybe that's the best case scenario.
For I wonder how if that's the case, guys like Bresall and Garrett Wilson will be ranked. If it's that kind of quarterback situation. Garrett's still in New York Jet, well, he'll still be a Jet if they get rid of Aaron Rodgers, right, so yeah, fits, what what do you think who do you think is gonna be? And they're picking seventh, by the way, as of right now, Tankathon, so not in a position to even really get a quarterback.
And by the way, we don't love the quarterbacks in this class, So if they have to look elsewhere like free agency, like could they he's a Sam Darnald reunion, Like, who do you think is it would be their quarterback?
Yeah, the Sam Donald reunion seems pretty improbable. They are out of Shaduer Sanders, cam Ward Range, and I don't know if those guys are automatic Week one starters anyway, Deebro actually stole my answer here. I was gonna say Justin Fields. Also, it just makes sense unrestricted free agents, so like, there are not many unrestricted free agent quarterbacks who are starting caliber, and Justin Fields is one of them.
I don't think Rogers is coming back. I don't think the Jets are gonna let Jordan Travis be their Week one starter. I don't think the Jets are trading for Kirk Cousins. They've already tried one senior citizen quarterback. It didn't work. They're not going to go that route again.
It just Fields makes a lot of sense, and I think he's going to be pretty reasonably priced for free agent quarterback who actually could start, And like, I don't know how many teams are going to be clamoring for his services.
I thought they should have taken Fields in that draft instead of Zach Wilson.
So chance to right the wrong possibles, right, I Mulligan, I don't.
I don't really want to. I know we're about to tail into the last game we're going to discuss here. I don't want to tail into this conversation too much, but I'm gonna do it anyway. If you're the New York Jets, do you go off for the number seventh overall pick to the Minnesota Vikings for JJ McCarthy.
I think.
They like I would, but yes I can.
I was much higher on Jay.
If I were the Jets, I would. I would make that offer. Yes I would.
What do you think fits not after a major injury that like he needed a this much time to recover from like that, I can knock him beyond top ten draft capital.
For me, I just think like it's it's so hard, like it's also not a very good class, so it's not like that seventh pick you're thinking, oh, well, like maybe I could get like the third best quarterback in this class or whatever and have it be good. It's just not that type of year.
It probably doesn't happen. I mean, like, really, if you're the Deaths and you really want to like you probably need to burn tear this down to the studs and just read to rebuild it all. So not nothing that happens. They probably a better candidate to trade down. I just thought it was an interesting thought.
Ex we're going long on this episode, so let's just get to this last game so we get people out of here. Before we get to the key question for Sunday Nights matchup, I want to ask you guys about your Uber Eats Sunday Night Meals of the Week debro. What must order food gets you reaching for your Uber Eats app for great game day deals when you think of Detroit.
Dude, I'm not gonna lie. I went down the rabbit hole of like looking through all the foods that Detroit is known for the most niche, amazing thing that I found, and I had to bring it up here A corned beef egg roll just sounds great, absolutely amazing. It sounds like a slice of heaven. So I'm going with that.
I like that pick fits, how about you?
Apparently, much like Chicago, Detroit is a big town for Punchke's. They are polish donuts popular around Lent, especially popular around Lent. They're a staple of our house around that time of year, and they're delicious. So apparently they're big in Detroit, and you stole my answer, Worm, So I'll settle for punch Gi.
I was gonna make a joke about like, oh, when I think of Detroit, I think of EM and M, So I'll order some EM and M's. But I went with an actual meal, which is Detroit style pizza, which I have actually never had. And the reason I'm picking because I've always wanted to try it because I think it looks delicious. It looks like a style of pizza I would really like, and I've just never been in a position to have it.
So fit.
You said it was gonna be your pick. Are you a big Detroit stal pizza fan?
I am worm in. There as a place I will take you in Las Vegas that has fabulous Detroit style pizza. Oh, I.
Do tend to like New York style pizza better than like Deep Dish Chicago, But I like that Detroit isn't like it seems like again I haven't tried it, but like not quite as extreme as like a true Deep Dish, And I think I would like the thicker kind of like pan crust style a lot, so I would love to try it. There you have it, our Uber Eats Sunday Night meals of the week. We got Detroit style pizza.
We've got I don't even know how to pronounce Fitz's, and we've got the and we've got the corn beef pork rolls or I already forgot with Deebro said, what was yours? Again? This is a corn beef beef ag Okay, sorry, I forgot to write him down trying to remember it's the last one of these for the year. That's why, Dad. All I really remember was the Detroit style pizza. Uber Eats does have the best game day deals all season long.
That's something you can't forget. Order now for game Day all right, guys, A key question here on the Viking side. You made a good point that we could have talked about. Sam Darnald. I have been really operating under the assumption that they are just going to go to JJ McCarthy, that they are going to stick with the plan. As good as Donald has been, they are going to say he really benefited from the setup he's in and could
they could continue to benefit. Sure, but I think it's more possible now than I would have thought weeks or months ago that then the fact the possibility that they would keep him. But I'm still operating in the assumption that JJ McCarthy will be the started quarterback next year. So I wanted to pose a question about a different player, and it's Jordan Addison. He was wide receiver sixteen on a per game basis this season, so not far off
from a wide receiver one. Do you expect to rank him debro higher or lower than sixteenth at the position in twenty twenty five rankings.
I think lower, but not a ton lower. And again I'm just owning ls left and right here the growth that we've seen from Jordan Addison because if you look at all the per route metrics in his rookie season, he relied on touchdowns. It was insane touchdown luck, like that run out of his rookie season. It wasn't the target earning opportunity, it wasn't the yards, it wasn't anything else that we think is sticky looking at wide receivers moving forward, he has improved all those metrics. He has
taken a huge step forward in the second half. Because if you look at it, and I know everybody likes to kindly look away, the beginning of his season was not pretty. He was a wide receiver for he wasn't doing anything, and he has really turned it on in the second part of this season. The reason I can't go higher or have him in that range of where he's producing right now, I think another year off the injury, we see a revitalization of TJ. Hockinson, who's still not
truly a hundred percent right now. So I think Hawk being a much bigger part of this offense in twenty twenty five hurts Addison's some, although I think he still needs to be a top twenty four wide receiver fits what do you think.
I've got Addison ranked wide receiver twenty eight, and I suspect him going to be like four or five spots behind consensus on him. But justin Jefferson isn't going anywhere. As Debro mentioned, we're going to get a better version of TJ. Hockinson, and for that matter, we're going to get a whole season of TJ. Hockinson, which we didn't
get this year. And more than that, it's less about the target competition and more about rather than having Sam Darnold in a career year, we're going to get a young and inexperienced JJ McCarthy, most likely at quarterback for the Vikings, which you know, I think is going to drive down Addison's value a bit.
I wanted to ask on the other side of this one too, I'm expecting the consensus top two tight ends next year to be Brock Bowers and Trey McBride. Maybe that'll be proven wrong, but I would have to imagine that's the clear number one and the clear number two
in that order. How many names besides those two will you guys be taking ahead of Sam Laporta, who obviously had a brock Bowers esque rookie season not quite as impressive, but you know this like borderline historic, like really really shockingly great rookie year, but took a step back this year, not always seemingly through any fault of his own. There
were a lot of mouths to feed. He's been better in the second half year than he was in the first half of the year, so kind of taking all of that in consideration over the last two years for Laporta, Fits will start with you, besides Bowers and McBride, how many other names are you taking ahead of him next year?
Only one? But I would take this guy at least a full round ahead of Sam Laporta. George Kettle yep, and same for you, Debro justin On.
So that is I mean Fits, He's right reading off by damn notes man, I love it. That is the only player, legit, And we also need to give a little bit of shine George Kittle the tight end one this season because I haven't heard that discussed a ton. He's been awesome and I don't think it. I don't think any of anything changes or falls off of him. So it's only George Kittle for me.
Yeah, I'm trying to think of who I would even besides Kittle, who you guys both have ahead, Who would even pit against Laporta in like a head to head debate Like Hockinson you know is a good But there are he does have both Addison and Justin Jefferson, and theoretically, you know, essentially a rookie quarterback in his first year coming off an injury, you know, Mark Andrews. I think we'll get a lot of touchdowns, but the yardage just isn't there. And another year older, he's getting up there.
You know.
Tucker Kraft is a guy I really like, but I don't think I could really take him ahead of Laporta. Like there's not a lot of names in that range that I would go in and say, oh yeah, I really want to invest in this guy ahead of somebody who we've seen the ceiling of Laporta.
I think I think the conversation is Laporta versus Hawkinson. That's where I'm at.
I think that's probably about right. Awesome. We got through a lot of matchups here. We've done a lot of these key questions this season. Boys, it has been a very fun year. I love doing this show. I say it every season, but this is, you know, maybe my most favorite fun show of the week. I always have a good time. Fun to be looking ahead to twenty twenty five. Already it's only January second, and we're already thinking about those August drafts. I cannot wait for more
off season discussions to come again. Best of luck to anybody who is forced to play in Week eighteen. Hopefully that is not you. Hopefully you were just listening to a preview the week and to a think about twenty twenty five a bit more. But I hope you boys had a good New Year's and holiday time with your respective families. For debro and fits, I'm Ryan Warmley. Thank you everybody for tuning in both today and all season long, and we'll see again next time. Thanks for listening to
the Fantasy Pros Fantasy Football podcast. If you love the show, the best free way to support us is by leaving a positive review on Apple podcasts at Fantasypros dot com, slash review on Spotify, follow us on x, Instagram, and TikTok at Fantasy Pros, and subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Fantasy Pros