BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. You're about to listen to the Checkered Flag podcast after the Chinese Grand Prix. Now, as you know, we record straight after the race so we can capture everything in the heat of the moment as they finished on the road. However...
sometimes the FIA investigate and apply post-race penalties and in the case of China three hours after the race there have been quite severe penalties applied so to bring you up to speed both Ferraris have been disqualified along with Gasly's Alpine. For Gasly and Leclerc it's because the car was found to be under the minimum weight required. For Lewis Hamilton it's due to his skid blocks being worn too much. So obviously
In the context of our chat, the Ferraris are now non-scorers and it also promotes everyone behind them up. So Esteban Ocon and Haas teammate Oli Behrman now have even better results than the ones we referred to. So whilst the top four remains unchanged... In fifth place, it is Esteban Ocon for Haas. Kimi Antonelli is sick, the head of Alex Albon. Oli Behrman gets promoted to eighth. Lance Stroll is ninth. And Carlos Sainz is tenth, which means huge results not only for Haas, but Williams too.
as Carlos Sainz gets his first points of the season for Williams. Right, context provided. Enjoy the pod. Welcome to the checkered flag post the Chinese Grand Prix, which took place early Sunday morning. And it's been quite a hectic weekend for the second round of the Formula One season, a week on from Melbourne.
opening up proceedings. And after the second race, well, it certainly looks like McLaren have the advantage over the rest of the field as Oscar Piastri led home a McLaren 1-2 with Lando Norris holding on to second and to talk you through it. Analyze everything alongside myself, Harry Benjamin, is the McLaren Formula E driver, Sam Bird, and the BBC's F1 correspondent, Andrew Benson. Sam, let's start with McLaren and take off your McLaren cap just for one minute. No. As you don't need to.
because they did well. They were great. And they are the team to beat. We fought this from pre-season testing. Norris and Piastri, superb in Australia in those tricky conditions. And now a different track, dry conditions throughout. And once again, they were the class of the field. Yeah, absolutely. Class of the field. Oscar Piastri, lights to flag.
victory today never really looked in any trouble um managed that to be fair they both managed the gap because it was a manufactured gap between the two of them Lando Norris had a more difficult and more challenging day first of all having to get past George Russell twice, once at the start, once after the pit stop. And then he had an issue with the breaks that I'm sure we'll come to very soon as well. So all things considered, maximum points today, a great opening.
two races for McLaren. Yeah, Andrew, it was a tyre degradation kind of race, wasn't it, in China? Well, they were all managing. And I think one of the big questions, having watched that race, it wasn't the greatest race in the world, let's be honest. I found myself yawning a couple of times, was just how much were McLaren managing their pace? You know, there was a point in the middle of the race...
where they clearly wanted to give Norris some breathing space against George Russell's Mercedes behind him. They were asking Piastri to speed up. Norris has been talking after the race about, you know, struggling in the dirty air behind Piastri. He felt he had more pace, but you can't get close because of the turbulent air. How much faster could Piastri have gone?
situations if he'd really had to push if someone was putting him under pressure who wasn't his teammate who was comfortable with the car behind it was a very controlled very impressive demonstration of team superiority. The only question is, how big was that superiority? Leaves us still with more questions, but let's hear from our race winner, Oscar Piastri, speaking to Lawrence Barreto. Oscar, congratulations.
dominated from the front you must be delighted with the performance today uh yeah very very happy um you know see exactly the kind of result we wanted not just for myself but for the whole team so um Yeah, pretty pumped. I think that was probably the...
maybe the least emotional win, but the most satisfying for sure. So, no, very, very proud of the whole team. I think we, you know, we had a lot of things we had to try and tackle this weekend with the car and we did a really good job of trying to do. that for today and yeah I feel like I did a good job as well so very very pleased. And on a personal level after Australia and how it didn't go so well was it just particularly important for you to come back and hit it strongly with this result?
Yeah, I mean, I think regardless of what the result was going to be, I wanted to come back and just... prove to myself that I can keep going, keep fighting and I think I definitely proved that this weekend and the result. i have the result to show for it this time which is is great so um no just very very pleased with you know how the whole first two weekends have gone um you know obviously this weekend i'm leaving a bit happier but um Yeah, I'm I'm excited for the race to come feel like I'm
It's been really good so far on a lot of fronts, so I'm excited. So Oscar Piastri then finished almost 10 seconds ahead of his teammate Lando Norris, though, who, as you said, Sam, was really managing some quite critical issues right at the end with his brake pedal getting...
longer and longer with almost every lap that went by can you kind of describe what what is that issue what's happening there and how he was managing it the brake pedal going long is exactly what it says on the tin the brake pedal is going long as the disc and the pad
wears down effectively you're having to put more travel more input through your foot to get the same stopping potential but i don't think this issue was just that i think that there's there's something else in there i don't know whether there was an issue with the material on a disc, one particular disc, or whether there's a software issue in there. The fact that they knew and calculated it was going to get one millimeter longer. They also said...
The front axle was not an issue. It was the rear axle. So whether or not Lando's brake bias was maybe a little bit too much to the rear, which then adds more stress onto those rear discs and pads. don't know, but I'm sure over the next couple of days, there'll be talks about it in the press.
In a way, it's almost reassuring for Norris because it means there's no reason to feel bad about finishing second. You know, he couldn't have finished anywhere other than second with those breaks. There's no way if he'd been leading, you know, I mean, they might have told him.
whole position i suppose but basically he was not in a position to challenge piastri they were talking through the race at mclaren about you know manage now but you can attack later on if you want to so they're basically saying you know let's control the race let's get it done the one two and then you can go racing if you want i think
Morris probably realized when he heard that message that was never really going to happen. But the brake problem meant it couldn't happen. So he's come away. He's got a first and a second from the first two races. He's got a championship lead. It means he'll leave, well, as long as he finishes the race. you should leave Suzuka in two weeks' time, still in the championship lead, even if Piastri beats him. So it's exactly...
what Norris wants from this season. He's gone into the season thinking, I can win the World Championship this year. Obviously, he doesn't want to be beaten by his teammate very often, and he can't be beaten by his teammate very often if he's going to win the championship the way things are going.
But he can leave China thinking, well, I couldn't have done any better. And crucially, as you say, he leads the championship eight points clear at the top. Let's hear from Landon Norris and how he described his race. I'm pleased I just finished the race. it hurt a lot because i think my pace was very very strong at the end of the race um i really would have loved to have had breaks and and challenged oscar because i think i could have done but
He deserved the win today and he's been very good all weekend. So an amazing result for us as a team. But yeah, we were lucky. We were lucky we had something failing on the brakes and we were lucky to finish the race in the end. A scary last couple laps, just because at any point the brakes could have disappeared and they almost did. I mean, my foot was flat to the floor every time. It's scary. This is not something you want when you're driving a car.
So I hope it never happens again, but you know one of our first proper problems we've had on the car and Lucky to have finished. So something we need to understand and make sure it doesn't happen again. So Norris then, Sam, as Andrew was alluding to, a good result, happy to almost finish second because he had those issues that he was managing. But do we think then without those issues...
we could have had a real nice battle towards the end of this race between the two McLaren drivers. And will McLaren allow that going forward as well?
My heart wants to say, yeah, we were going to have a great battle and it was going to be... But honestly, my head is saying no, no. It needed just to be under control. At this stage in the championship, you want to just... eek away from all of your opposition a little bit like you would in a singular race you want to eek away and then maybe fight towards the end um there'll be multiple race wins i believe for both oscar piastri and lando norris this year
At one point, if one of them gets a string of results together in a row, then we might see somebody pulling away from the other. But it's quite nip and tuck right now. The team just want to score one twos. I've got my antenna up at the moment because all the talk coming out of McLaren is about equality. There's no number one. You know, they're allowed to race. But both races sort of happened so far this year. We've had...
very obvious radio messages about managing the race, holding position in Australia for two or three laps, and then go racing again. Here in China, it was, you know, all race. the messages at least that we heard on the TV broadcast were about managing this, managing that. So I do believe them that they're letting the drivers race, but at the same time, they're kind of being really careful to maximize things for the team, which they're going to do. But those two things...
The Venn diagram doesn't always work with those two approaches. So it'd be interesting to see how that situation develops as the year goes on because... What the team say is allowing them to race sometimes doesn't look like allowing them to race from the outside. So I don't know how that dynamic is going to shift as we go through the season. It's going to depend, I think, on the results of the individual drivers. If it keeps going to and fro, to and fro, it could get a bit tasty.
One of them gets a series of wins ahead of the other. It's going to get tasty in a different way because the other one's going to be desperate to catch up. So that dynamic is going to be really fascinating as the year goes on. I mean, we're only two races in and we're already speaking about this. I think you... need another
Another six races. And then another six races and ask the same question again, Harry. Okay, so we'll call you back in six races. But this is the problem. You can't have two number ones in the team. It doesn't work. I think you can. Do you really think you can? Yeah, I think you can. Well, McLaren are doing that right now. Well, okay.
Unless you believe that Rando Norris is number one and just a sniff behind is Oscar Piastri. Let's hope that they have got two number ones, right? In reality. And they have. That's the status. And the two drivers are very determined that that is the case.
and the team are very determined that that is the case and they're allowing them to race. Zac Brown, the CEO, says that. Andrea Estelle, the team principal, says that. It's just that there are these moments in races where they don't race. And so... as an outside observer it's like okay what's actually going on here and how's it going to play out um i think
I mean, it's very early days. It's only race two. We don't know how the season's going to pan out in terms of competition between the teams. But if it carries on like this... We really need to hope that they have got genuine competition between Piastri and Norris because we've not got a lot else to hang on to right now. That is the other thing. If other teams start to throw their hat into the ring, because ideally, I suppose you want...
From Andrea Stella's point of view, right, if you've got two McLarens on the front row, you want them to work together to pull away from the rest of the field and then, in our world, okay, then let them race if they're on equal pace and they can fight it out and scrap it if it is this nip and...
tuck ebb and flow between the two drivers but you know based on what we saw towards the back end of last year there were moments of friction between the two drivers and the communications over the team radio there was there was hungry uh between piastri and lando norris and nor almost having to be guilt-tripped quite heavily over the radio to give that position back. But then in contrast...
They played quite nicey-nicey. I remember the Qatar sprint where all of a sudden, out of nowhere, Norris, having led the whole race, gives the win to Oscar Piastri right in the final corner as payback for Piastri helping him out in Sao Paulo. So that on page... seems very nice, but it came...
too late in the season because really was the march for the championship on so is that the bit of grace that each driver was giving then compared to now where they're quick out of the blocks straight away well now the race of the championship is definitely on and it's definitely on between those two And maybe some other people as well. And this happens still only eight points behind after two races. But...
The issue is that we've now got a whole season of the two McLaren drivers competing with each other for the championship. And I think they do, Norris and Piastri, they both definitely believe in the team harmony idea. Sam will have had conversations within the McLaren factory, I'm sure, or he's been privy to some of them. I think they're absolutely genuine about that. They're both nice guys. They both understand that the team comes first and that they have to...
acquiesce to whatever team orders there are at any given moment. But there will be pressure points as the year goes on. We just don't know what they're going to look like, but they're going to happen.
So let's take you as an example. McLaren Formula E driver, you're the more experienced driver compared to your teammate in Formula E. Yeah, because my teammate is a child. Well, yeah, but that's the way it's going. That's the way drivers are trending these days. If you're listening, Taylor, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. A young British talent.
and then there's Sandbird. But okay, you're challenging, it gets to six rounds later and you're both nip and tuck for the title and you're racing each other equal pace. You're told to manage energy at the equal times and all that. stuff that comes with formula e and then on the radio
Taylor's in front of you, but you feel like you're faster. But on the radio, they go, hold position. We just want to get the one-two here because we've got pressure from the guys behind. What are you responding to that? Genuinely, there might be... Some disappointment, but knowing that it's still another podium, knowing that it's for the good of the team and there's 60 odd people working on our cars back at Bicester and in Woking.
you go along with it and you move on because there'll be another time where it'll be on the opposite foot. The other thing to bear in mind is that it's... It's not very easy to overtake in Formula 1 when you're in the same car as your rival. It's not easy to overtake in Formula 1 no matter what. But when you've both got the same car, even if you feel you're faster...
If you're being allowed to race, then being allowed to race is probably going to mean you're not going to beat the guy because he's in front of you, your tires are being overworked and blah, blah, blah. You know, it's just, you know, so they can try. But, you know, and ultimately, that's the point where the team, obviously, they understand that. And they're going to be saying, look, we get you. You can try and pass him.
Good luck. You're not going to. So at some point or another, you have to think, well, if you can't overpush, you're going to sacrifice your own result potentially. But before we get too McLaren heavy, because we've been going on about this. We'll move on in a minute. No, but... The harmony within the team is awesome. The kind of...
Everything around Woking right now is going extremely well. Everybody seems to be in a happy environment and a great workplace. The drivers are listening to what the team have to say and are executing everything perfectly. You have to say right now, you'd give McLaren a 10 out of 10 for the start of their season. And they're the only...
They're the only team that you would give that to. What it will come down to ultimately is races like Australia for Piastri, where he lost a crucial amount of points. So he's already on the back foot. We talk about what it's the two McLarens.
taking the title charge. He's only eight points back. Well, exactly. But Verstappen and Russell are between him and Lando Norris right now. In terms of the championship order, it's Norris, Verstappen, Russell and Piastri. Only because of results count. Those three guys are tied, right? It is 44 points for Norris, 36 points for Verstappen, 35 for Russell, 34 for Piastri. Oh, they're not tied. Okay, right. I don't think the drivers will even know. They won't even be looking. It's way too early.
Not even a little peak? No. What's the point? What is the point right now? It's a long old season. 44 points for Philando Norris currently leading. He'll have, if he wants to win the championship, he'll need over 300 and something points. So 44, I mean, it doesn't matter. Okay, I hear you.
I think, look, let's park McLaren now. It's just really interesting to see as the season develops who's going to be quicker, who's going to win the most races. That's what it's going to boil down to. At the moment, they've got the best car. It's driver against driver. It's all to play for for both of them.
While today's race wasn't especially exciting, there will be exciting races to come. There was one last weekend in Australia, and those two guys are very evenly matched, and even if no one else is in the game, and I think they will be. But even if no one else is in the game, it's still going to be a good season, like 2014, for example.
Yeah, no, look, that's part of the McLaren thing there, but I'm not done with the team orders chat yet because we did see it in action with the two Ferrari drivers. Lewis Hamilton asked to let through Charles Leclerc in order to chase down, I think it was at George Russell ahead. That's not what the seven-time champion wants to hear, but Ferrari don't want to hear Lewis Hamilton deciding when those team orders come into place. I mean, add into the mix of that lack of satisfaction.
He'll have seen that his teammate had some of his front wing missing and he was still faster than him, still able to follow within a second very easily, not drop back at all. It was very clear Leclerc was... demonstrably the faster Ferrari driver today, even with a broken front wing, which was broken in a collision with Hamilton at the first corner. No one was really at fault in that situation. It's just one of those things. So that will have been adding into the sort of...
you know, the mental torture that Hamilton was going through. You know, I've won the sprint race and now I've got my teammate up behind me with a broken front wing. This isn't good at all. Welcome to Ferrari. Yeah, exactly. I'll tell you what, let's hear from both the Ferrari drivers, Lewis Hamilton. and Charles Leclerc speaking about the Chinese Grand Prix. I'm disappointed because I...
I feel like the potential today was here to maybe fight for the win actually. I really feel like we had a lot of performance in the car. Yesterday in the sprint race I felt that way as well, especially towards the end of the sprint race. When I started pushing I started to gain a lot. but yeah I had done some changes to the car and I was quite optimistic with today but we lost 30 points of downforce so that was a big chunk of performance
But we did a really good job considering that. It's just a shame for Turn 1, honestly. Luis couldn't have done anything better. I don't know what I could have done better. I mean, he was on the outside. I thought he was defending from a car on the outside. He came back towards the inside. I did not expect that, but he had all the right to do so. And so we touched. Luckily for us, we both finished the race.
yeah it wasn't ideal with the damage later on hey lewis i thought in that early phase you imagine your tires to look at after that i thought that's where the pace was but obviously as the race unfolded it didn't look like you had what it had in the car how are you feeling after what you've been i mean i feel okay
Wasn't able to get the result that I was hoping for today once I I needed a good start which I got and Then I was trying to see if I could pounce forwards, but I just didn't have the pace of the cars up ahead and just balance-wise from the sprint race we made these changes.
car was terrible after that so i really struggled with the car from then on i guess if you know that that was maybe the reason behind it does that give you some hope the sprint take the positive from the sprint and leave this weekend generally a lot better place than you were obviously than when you came in yeah yeah Definitely, I think.
It's good learnings and hopefully won't do that again as I continue to learn this car. So, yeah, I think there's definitely positives to take from the weekend. Obviously, we're losing ground to McLarens. points wise but we've just got to keep keep pushing.
Leclerc and Hamilton with their takes. They finished fifth and sixth on the road, but after the race were both disqualified. Leclerc for having an underweight car and Hamilton for excessive skid wear. Prior to the announcement of their disqualification, we spoke. out the relationship between the pair? I think it's more tricky a Ferrari than it is a McLaren because of where
individuals are at with their careers and what they've achieved in their careers to date, which I think it makes it more challenging and more difficult. We've seen Lewis be able to... managed being equal number ones in the past. You know, he had it obviously infamously with Fernando Alonso when he first came into Formula One with Jenson Button.
nika rosberg valtteri i think he was number one but it was it was close um and now with it was a little bit the same with george russell and now with charlotte he's always been up against somebody extremely challenging and tough At the moment, Ferrari, well, okay, Hamilton won the sprint. But, you know, they're a little bit behind McLaren. And actually...
That's really the bigger concern for them because they came into this season having ended last year saying, you know, basically challenging for the Constructors' Championship and nearly winning it. And Fred Vassar has been saying all winter, the team principal, you know, this season. going to carry on like last season ended with four teams all able to win a race depending on the circuit and the tyres and blah blah blah I mean I guess Fred would argue
that he's right because Hamilton won the sprint. But in terms of the two Grand Prix so far, that's not what it looks like. It doesn't look like Ferrari in a position to compete for victories. You know, okay, Hamilton put it on pole for the sprint.
But there was an underperformance from McLaren, definitely, in that situation. And also probably an overperformance from Hamilton on a... track that he knows in a qualifying session where the drivers and teams would come in cold effectively after just one practice session once the field had devolved down into sort of actual pace in the proper Grand Prix qualifying Ferrari were
fifth and sixth on the grid, and that's about where they are in terms of competitiveness, in terms of the evidence of the first two races. You can only go on the evidence of what you've got, which is that's where, you know, that's... Well, they are. They qualified seventh and eighth in Australia. They qualified fifth and sixth in China. So the bigger issue for them is, it's like, what's gone wrong? How have we not managed to compete with McLaren in development over the winter?
Yeah, the issue is they're finishing 16 seconds behind Oscar Piastri. How do they find that pace? That's the big... Big question. But if they do turn the car competitive, like they did last year, for example, and who can rule that out, then you've got a guy, and the dynamic Sam's talking about in terms of the careers, you've got a man going for the eighth world title that he believes he should already have.
and wanting to right that wrong with the most famous team in the sport and a guy who's been brought up since he was 11 pretty much by Ferrari wanting to get his first championship. That is the sort of dynamic where it can really explode. Lewis Hamilton even called Charles Leclerc Mr. Ferrari in the build-up to the Australian Grand Prix weekend. Let's just move up a couple of spots because we've glossed over a few drivers. George Russell finished third on the podium for Mercedes. Again...
A nice quiet drive for George Russell, actually. He did manage to have a few elbows out. Nice battles with Lando Norris early on, but a really good result for the Mercedes driver. Yeah, super solid.
I mean, he's had two races in a row now where he's absolutely maximized what that Mercedes can do. He's working extremely well with the team. And I've got to say that today, you know, all the talk... season was about his his young teammate Kimi Antonelli and how promising and how talented he is well George Russell's put down a statement today I think he finished over 40 seconds clear of Kimi Antonelli who somehow
got driver of the day today which i i i really struggle with because he's good but that race today of his was not worthy of driver of the day Well, let's hear from the driver of the day's teammate, George Russell, who finished third. We know that when McLaren have got two amazing drivers and when they do the job, they are a step ahead of everybody.
You know, for me today to be, you know, I think eight seconds ahead of Max and 12 ahead of Ferrari, I'm really, really proud of that result. And I'd go as far as saying maybe one of my best races in Formula One in terms of... how I was driving and got the most from the tyres and strategy. I was really happy with everything. So it's been a good start to the season. George Russell then rounding out the podium. It was a good performance from him, Andrew, do you think?
Outstanding, in fact. He's arguably the driver of the day for me. Second on the grid, splitting the McLarens with a lap that kind of came out of nowhere. And then he was... you know, elbows out at the start. Okay, he lost out to Norris on the first lap in the end, but, you know, he was going for the lead, battling with Norris again after the pit stop and was keeping the McLarens.
definitely in sight for most of the race. So I don't think you can't fault George Russell on his performance in China this weekend. On the subject of Kimi Antonelli, yes, he finished a long way behind, but he got some floor damage. And they didn't know about that. races in a row isn't that yes of course the question is where did he get the floor damage did he go over a curb was it a mistake probably
Possibly. That's not great if it was. But still, damaged car. And Mercedes didn't know about the floor damage until after his pit stop. He got it early, but for some reason they hadn't worked it out. So they weren't able to rebalance the car with the front wing change, for example, at the pit stop. So he was suffering for it all race. So that will account for...
a significant chunk of that 40-second deficit that he had to Russell at the end of the race. Yeah, Kimi Antonini ended up finishing eighth. But again, what's the dynamic then, Sam, at Mercedes right now? Because you have this wonder kid in Kimi Antonini that's come in. George Russell has stepped...
up as the team leader and has been outstanding really since the get-go. Mercedes are actually second in the Constructors' Championship right now, but they are still missing that little bit to get back to their regular race-winning ways. I think the atmosphere there will be good. You know, you've got a promising young rookie who's kind of got a free hit this year to learn.
And he's going to pick up results along the way. He already is picking up results and points. And then you've got George Russell as the team leader that Kimi Antonelli is going to learn off. So I think this year for Mercedes, it... is a bit of a free hit for them as well. Let's just see what we can do. We're the underdogs. If we can fight for wins, we will. If not, then George will hopefully pick up some podiums and maybe Kimi will as well.
Russell now third in the Drivers' Championship after two rounds and picks up third place at the end of the Chinese Grand Prix. Ahead, Andrew of Max Verstappen in the Red Bull. He started fourth, dropped back to six, and kind of was there on his own. for most of the race. That Red Bull is the fourth quickest car at the moment.
It's really hard to call that. I mean, I've done the numbers. I do the numbers, as you know. On average, it's the second quickest car, according to absolute quality. In the hands of Max, exactly. Yes. And then the question becomes, well, how good is Verstappen compared to Russell? Claire, Hamilton, Norris, Piastri, you know, and there's no answer to that. I think I said on the podcast yesterday.
Verstappen's saying, oh, this is the fourth quickest car, but he's basing that on the belief that he's miles faster than anybody else. Well, I think he is probably the best driver in the world, but is he miles faster than Charles Leclerc, for example, over one lap? No, I don't believe he is. So...
you know, I'm not saying Leclerc would beat him. I just think it would be really, really close. So, but there is no question that Red Bull are struggling with that car. And he is an outstanding race driver and he was nowhere for most of this race. It was one of the...
the most anonymous races that I've seen from Max Verstappen for a long time. And that in itself tells you a lot. So you've also got the question of what do you mean by the pace of the car? Is it where it qualifies or is it where it races? Did he finish? fourth today because Ferrari kind of
gave him fourth place because of the mishaps and adventures that they had, you know, an extra stop for Hamilton, a damaged front wing for Leclerc. Would he have beaten the Ferraris if Ferrari had a perfect race? Maybe not. Maybe he would have been sixth. Then I think we could justifiably say that on this day...
on this track, it was the fourth quickest car out of the top four teams. I think I was going to start by saying this was a sobering weekend for Red Bull, but in a way, it wasn't because they kind of... it's like because it's like they knew it was coming and so the question and staff are saying the balance of the car is fine we just not got any performance and um
It's hard. You can't argue with him because he's so good. If the car was as quick as a McLaren, he'd be competing with Norris and Piastri. There's no question about that. So if he isn't, you know, you know. He is absolutely extracting the maximum out of that car. He's done that again. Fourth is arguably an overachievement. And this comes back to the questions over...
Red Bull. There's so many questions hanging over Red Bull at the moment in terms of the big picture. How much are they going to suffer for the loss of Adrian Newey? What on earth are they doing with their second driver choices? Why have they lost performance? Why don't they understand? That's Verstappen's words, not mine. Why don't they understand why the car isn't quick? So, yeah.
Really difficult times for Red Bull at the moment. And then, of course, there's Liam Lawson to discuss as well, Harry. We'll come on to him. Let's hear, though, from Max Verstappen, who managed then to haul that Red Bull into fourth place. I just tried to drive to the pace that we set out to do. but that is of course not at the same level as the cars ahead.
So yeah, the medium was probably a bit more difficult, but actually on the hard tyre, I think from basically that second half phase, we seemed a bit more competitive, more promising at least. Yeah, that was at least enjoyable, trying to catch the cars ahead, having a bit of a fight as well. So I think we'll take that as a positive, that there is space in the car at some point. Just need to understand probably a bit more why...
It didn't happen in the beginning and at the end of the race it was better. The reigning champion then with that fourth place, still second in the Drivers' Championship, eight points behind Lando Norris. He finished ahead of those two Ferraris. Verstappen then clearly able to maximize whatever he's got underneath him. And we just got to then touch on what Andrew brought up. We had a really big discussion about it yesterday in our qualifying podcast about Liam Lawson, the rookie.
He's done 11 Grand Prix starts for the junior team, Racing Bulls, RB, whatever they were called over the last couple of years, gets the promotion to Red Bull and he qualifies last. in the first two races of the season and actually had to start from the pit lane in China because they made some suspension setup changes. Liam Lawson is not a bad driver.
but he is being made to look like he does not know which one is the accelerate and which one is the brake. Why is that? How on earth does a driver get to grips with that? I really can't explain it. I really can't explain it.
I think that I try and convince myself by saying, well, Max Verstappen has a very specific driving style, which he does. And over the past sort of five, six years, the team has been... pushed towards a way of designing a car that suits Max Verstappen and that doesn't necessarily suit the other drivers. But there's got to be some similarities. I mean, it's so close. All these drivers, you know, in similar machinery or in the same machinery, the top...
six or seven drivers in Formula One should and could be within a couple of tenths of each other. If they all drove the Red Bull for a day or they all drove the Ferrari or the Mercedes or the McLaren for a day or multiple days, they'd all be super. super close, a bit like in a single make formula. So you can't tell me that it's just the car setup. It could be, is there an issue with that chassis? I don't know whether they've thought of changing chassis yet, but it's super early on in the season.
There's got to be a fundamental reason why he's over a second a lap off Max Verstappen because Liam Lawson, he might not be the biggest name out there, but he's no idiot. He really isn't. He's a good young driver. So, what Lawson was saying after qualifying was that the problem is that the window of the car is so small and he can't find it. Now, people talk about this in Form 1 a lot.
recently the window and it i've been reporting on form one for a long time it's a phrase that never came up 20 30 years ago and now it's all people talk about and it's about it means you've got to get the car in the sort of perfect little scenario of setup.
for it to work properly with the complexity of the aerodynamics. If you don't get it in that one window, then the performance is nowhere. And he can't find that window. Sam's nodding at me here. But it's also not just getting the set, it's also getting the tyre in the right window.
And these Pirelli, since we switched to Pirelli in 2011, Typically, the shape of the window, it's been a lot more peaky with regards to its performance, whereas the Michelin and the Bridgestone that were before... it had a much much wider window that you could operate in the pirelli you've got a small window to operate in with regards to temperature with regards to pressure you need to get everything
correct in order to have any chance and if the tyre's not in the window it doesn't matter what setup you've got on the car if your tyre isn't in the right window you can forget it so to pick up on what he said yesterday and it's worth saying by the way that he started from the pit lane
and qualified last, and he made his way up to the brilliant finishing position of 15th, which is not what Rebel wants to see from their drivers. This is a car that finished fourth in Max Verstappen's hands, albeit from fourth on the grid. This is Lawson yesterday. It's just time. Unfortunately, I don't really have time. To drive a Formula One car takes 100% confidence in what you're doing. And it's not that I don't feel confident, but the window is so small that right now I just seem to miss it.
It's that I just need to get a handle of. I don't know how else to put it. It's just not good enough. The problem is that Helmut Marko, the Red Bull motorbike advisor, who, along with Christine Horner, decides the driver lineups, was asked...
Does he have time? And he said, no, he doesn't. And people are already talking about the next race in Japan being critical for Lawson's future. I mean, let's not get into the whole topic that we discussed yesterday for a number of minutes. People can go back and listen to that podcast if they want to get into that in detail.
But it seems absolutely crazy to be implying, and we're not inferring that correctly, that is what Marco is implying. They imply that they might change drivers after three races. It's just total insanity. But what's to fix? I don't know. And I'm not sure they will know either. And it's just, that's, you know, one of the many problems that Red Bull have got on that plate right now. It's not a happy time for that team.
I don't think any drivers are envious of Liam Lawson's position right now. Having been given that promotion to Red Bull, he... made his way up to 15th, actually behind and would have been behind both had it not been for a late pit stop for Yuki Tsunoda, the junior team of racing bulls. He finished behind Isaac Hadjar. Okay, let's try and end things on a little bit more of a positive note, shall we, Sam, and give some shout-outs.
outs to the best of the rest a man we barely saw during that Grand Prix Esteban Ocon in the Haas finished seventh Haas Double point score with Oli Behrman getting his first points of the season. I mean, that was a brilliant performance compared to this time last weekend. I mean, I've always thought that Esteban Ocon was a little bit beige, but today I think, do you know what? Today he was bold and he was...
brave and he was brilliant I mean he really was he did a great move down the inside into turn 14 I can't remember who that was on but on the grass committed aggressive And, you know, I know Antonelli had floor issues, or I do now, thanks to Benny. But what a great result. That's massively overachieving from where we thought Haas would be. They spent all pre-season testing doing race runs, and clearly it's starting to pay off a little bit in dry conditions.
We didn't expect them to be points scoring this early on in the championship. I mean, they've got a double points finish. Oli Behrman was also really fantastic to watch with a load of great cutback overtaking moves out of the hair. And he's finished 10th in his second Grand Prix for his new team. What's most extraordinary about it is... that this weekend in Shanghai started with Ayo Kamatsu, the Haas team principal, sitting down with all the journalists and basically saying...
The car's nowhere. We've got this massive high-speed aerodynamic problem. We don't know how to fix it. You know, and he talked through, you know, it was an issue with turn 9 and 10 in Australia, and it was all to do with... a combination of aerodynamic instability so bouncing basically in high-speed corners so the thing the dreaded thing from three years ago when these ground effect cars first came back again into formula one and with the way they run their car at the rear and
So you expect having, if a team principal sits you down and says that at the start of a Grand Prix weekend, you expect it's going to be another really, really terrible weekend. But they've been like very decent midfield runners all weekend. So I don't know what they've done.
But they've obviously found whatever was wrong in Australia, they've thrown it out the window and they've fixed the problem with the car, which seems extraordinary. Why sit everybody down like that if you're going to fix it for the next race? But anyway.
And suddenly they look where you'd expect them to be in the context of where they finished last year, which was they had a very strong season for their team context, you know, smallest budget in Formula One, operating out of a small factory in Banbury.
buying every part that they can from Ferrari pretty much. So, you know, good on them. It was a really outstanding... the Haas context that's a really outstanding weekend yeah really good it's actually Ocon's best ever result around Shanghai as well so good work for the Frenchman and Behrman pulling off some brilliant moves to work his way up on the median tyre at the end to get him
a solitary point but a good bounce back from him as well after a really tough opening weekend for his new team and one other man we've not mentioned who managed to pick up a couple of points and back-to-back points finishes for Alex Albon on the Williams so didn't look as good as they did last weekend but another solid run made the strategy work album did stay out quite uh quite long in the first stint another great result by alex albon really
showcasing his talent over the first two races of this season. Carlos Sainz, on the other hand, though, had a challenging weekend, didn't he? He didn't look anywhere near the pace of Alex Albon, didn't look comfortable in the car. When I saw him testing the car in Bahrain, I thought, wow, he's going to be leading and charging this team forwards and he's going to be the one making big strides. But so far, and I know we're only two races in, so I'm not going to get too carried away, but so far...
Alex Albon has been the shining light in that team. Yeah, Albon looks good at the moment. Currently sitting eighth in the Drivers' Championship as well. So good strong start for the Thai racer. Okay, just outside the points then was Pierre Gasly. A disappointing weekend for the Alpine drivers. Lance Stroll was 12th ahead of Carlos.
signs. Isaac Hadjar in 14th. Liam Lawson was 15th. Jack Doohan with a 10 second penalty for forcing Hadjar off the track during their battles ends up 16th ahead of Gabriel Bortoletto in the Sauber who did outrace his teammate Nico Hülkenberg but both
Salva's really having a disaster opening lap, both almost flying off the circuit and then having to play catch up ever since. And Yuki Tsunoda with a rather intriguing front wing failure, which I don't think will go away. I think there'll be some investigations into that in between now and Japan.
but he did get back out and finished 19th. A shame for him. He looked like he was on for some points. One retirement in the form of Fernando Alonso's Aston Martin with brake issues right at the start of this race. So 19 drivers finished and that will be your lot for...
china um we'll wrap things up there i think gentlemen thank you very much andrew benson thank you sam bird for joining me uh we have a week off now before formula one heads to japan at the iconic suzuka racetrack and it's mclaren and lando norris who lead the championship this is the football story of the century it's pandemonium it's ecstasy it's an authoritarian regime for the past 15 years English football has been dominated by Manchester City eight premier And...
More than a hundred charges. Somebody turned up at the Etihad Stadium and effectively served papers. I'm Clive Myrie and this is Football on Trial. The Manchester City charges. They believe they've got irrefutable evidence. Listen on BBC. DC Sounds.