Five Live Formula One. Well, hello. Welcome to the Checkered Flag podcast with me, Jenny Gow, Andrew Benson and Harry Benjamin. And Harry... How would I have thought it? It's been such a fun start to the season. Have you enjoyed it?
I did, but I didn't really enjoy the Japanese Grand Prix. I'll be honest about that. That was a bit of a long slog. However, I think overall, when you take a step back, we got one point between Norris and Verstappen in the championship, three different Grand Prix, three different winners. And we're only at round four. There's still so many questions to be answered. There's still so much to unpack. We don't truly know what everyone's got yet. I think this will be the first weekend where we see
how teams and drivers really stack up because of course we tested here in pre-season in Bahrain this weekend. So looking forward to it. And Andrew. Springtime in Japan. Sakura, all the beautiful blossoms. How was the food? How was the weather? How was everything apart from the race? Oh, the blossom was beautiful, Jenny. The weather was not so beautiful. It was quite chilly.
I really feel for you. Yeah, you can't. I mean, look, you can't not love Japan. You know, the bullet train and Mount Fuji, though I didn't see Mount Fuji this time. It was covered in cloud. But yeah, love it. The race, obviously not the greatest spectacle in terms of entertainment, but... The reason for that was that they were all driving absolutely flat out on tyres that weren't degrading for once.
And I think that's a good thing. Even if the spectacle wasn't that great, the drivers have all been talking about that today. Let's not get bogged down in tyres yet. But yeah, I mean, here we are, middle of a triple header, the first triple header of the season. And the fatigue's already setting in, Jenny.
From you? For everyone else? For me? I don't know about everyone else. Keep pushing, Benson. Yeah, we won't take up too much of a time, Andrew. That's fair enough. But we have got lots of things to talk about. And as Harry said, one point in this championship. separates Lando Norris from Max Verstappen. So let's hear from Verstappen and what that first win meant to him. It's a good motivation for the team, but we definitely need to improve to be able to fight for a title.
It's great that we are one point behind, but I think it's more that we just maximized our weekends quite well so far, but to really fight for a title we need to find more performance. It's nice to have that little motivation boost but we are very aware of what our limitations are and we know that we still have to work on that and hopefully every weekend we can make tiny progressions on that.
I love the fact at this point of the season, every driver says we know our limitations. But do you think, Harry, Red Bull do know their limitations? Are they lost or found? Middling, perhaps. I think Max Verstappen is never lost. He won't ever allow for that to happen. I think, look, the car is...
The car is not terrible in terms of what it's able to deliver. I think it's good in the low speed corners and the traction zones, which should actually help it this weekend in Bahrain. We know we've got...
especially corners like out of turn 10 where it gets tight and twisty and you've got to be good on the rear tyres. But I think the biggest issue that Red Bull seem to be battling with at the moment is... in the through the corner and getting the balance right of that red bull and it just varying and not being able to find a big enough window for it to work properly we always hear this talk of window window window
I think Red Bull and Verstappen had to flip that car upside down to get it into a position where he could set the pole lap in qualifying in Suzuka. And you could see from Yuki Tsunoda and his comments after getting into that Red Bull for the first time in Japan, he was only then just starting to realise... why so many drivers have struggled to find the sweet spot of that car and that's what it is it's trying to find that sweet spot so
Let's see, the car is not capable. I think Red Bull are still working on trying to widen the window because inherently they've got a quick car there. It's just being able to manage the balance of it and improve it further. Andrew, we've obviously had Australia, China, Japan. Those are three really far away races. Bahrain sees an opportunity, doesn't it, for the teams to make tweaks, to make changes. We've already touched on Ferrari and we'll go into that a little deeper in the next few minutes.
What will Red Bull have learnt about that car and how will they apply that learning to make it better? Well, look, it depends on who you listen to, Jenny. I mean, basically, it has handling flaws, the Red Bull. It's nervous on corner entry, it's got mid-corner understeer, and it's snappy on exits. That's actually not that dissimilar to the sort of generic characteristics of these grand effect cars. And Lando Norris has also been complaining about not being that happy with the...
The way the McLaren behaves, today he's been saying, you know, he's not in the same comfort zone as he was towards the end of last year in terms of knowing how to get consistently the best out of the car. And the tyres, which are also new this year, by the way, they've really come up with a new range of compounds which are more robust than they used to be.
So it's not like Verstappen is struggling in isolation. And I think the other thing that's complicated about Red Bull at the moment is that we haven't really had a clear picture of the car because we haven't had a clear picture from the second driver. Liam Lawson was all at sea in the first two races. Yuki Tsunoda came in for Suzuka and actually in...
Some of the sessions he was doing a really good job. He was, you know, within a tenth or so of Verstappen in the first practice session, the final practice session and the first part of qualifying. But then he messed up in second qualifying. The team didn't help him by giving him only one set of new tyres, which perhaps wasn't the best decision for his debut in a new car.
But if Tsunoda can consistently perform at that level that he was doing in some of those sessions in Suzuka, then we might have a view that the Red Bull's not actually that bad a car. So, you know, on average, it looks like it's about the... Is it second or third or fourth fastest? You know, if you look at the raw numbers, it's the second fastest car behind the McLaren.
Well, it's an interesting question. And it also depends on how much you think Verstappen is better than, for example, Norris or Russell or Hamilton or Leclerc, or is he better over one lap? Because the numbers I'm quoting from in terms of order are obviously to do with qualifying. So we're still seeing a picture develop for the season so far. Bahrain's the first track that they get to come back to after doing pre-season testing.
So that'll be interesting to see how that pans out. Interestingly, everyone's predictions that McLaren were going to be the sort of dominant force this year were based on one long run that Lando Norris did.
on the middle of three days in pre-season testing. But not everything else went that well for McLaren in testing, and actually Bahrain's the sort of track that... shouldn't favour their car holistically because it's better in sort of medium and high-speed corners whereas there's a lot of low-speed corners in Bahrain. Whereas, on the other hand, on the flip side, the McLaren's been really good on tyre wear, and Bahrain is the most aggressive circuit surface of any one of the entire calendar.
So lots of unknowns going into the season. As I mentioned earlier, that new floor on the Ferrari as well. It's just a quick, I think the key thing is that it's all very close and we're never quite sure each weekend how it's going to pan out, but McLaren going to every weekend is the favourites. That is the thing. We've got to remember, these are such fine margins we're talking about. We've mentioned the McLarens, the Red Bull in the hands of Max Verstappen for the time being. You cannot...
rule out George Russell in the Mercedes right now. He's enjoying his best ever start to his season in his Formula One career. He seems to be near enough in it. And yes, Ferrari do seem to be having these overall struggles and lack of pace. But let's not forget Charles Leclerc. a rather brilliant run in the Chinese Grand Prix, which he did with, at one point, half a broken front wing and still managed to make his tyres last. So that all bodes well for some nice things coming. Andrew, I wonder...
Do you think after Verstappen said that he could, he would have driven away into the sunset, I'm paraphrasing, in Japan if he was in the McLaren? Do you think that was just a bit of jest or do you think somebody liked Verstappen? could actually do that in the McLaren if he was stuck behind the Red Bull. Because that was the argument, right? Piastri Norris couldn't find a way through. Could Verstappen have.
Yeah, well, look, I think if one of Lando Norris or Oscar Piastri had been in front of Max Verstappen in the Japanese Grand Prix, they would also have disappeared into the sunset. It's pretty clear you can't follow somebody that closely. for 53 laps around Suzuka and not have a faster car. They just couldn't overtake.
What happened? I think McLaren had been talking today about having reviewed what happened in Suzuka, some opportunities that might have been there to operate the race differently. Could they have tried for an undercut with Norris? It was never completely clear that it was on, which is why they didn't do it. Norris would have pitted and come out in traffic.
He might not have had the margin anyway. You know, if you haven't got the margin and you come out in traffic, that's going to make it even more difficult to beat the guy that you're trying to undercut. Of course, you're risking a safety car as well and being exposed on that. The safety car didn't happen, of course. Bottom line is McLaren would have made their lives a lot easier in Suzuka if one of the drivers had qualified on pole.
and that they didn't. Piastri made a mistake on his final qualifying lap. I think Norris was actually relatively pleased with his final lap. What happened was that Verstappen produced a lap for the ages. It's something that happens with great drivers every now and again.
They just pluck something out of the ether and you just don't know where it's come from. You think of Hamilton at Singapore in 2018, for example. Some of Charles Leclerc's qualifying laps in the Ferrari in recent years. Ayrton Senna used to do it. Every now and again, you just see something that makes people's jaws hit the floor. And that's what we saw in Suzuka on Saturday afternoon. Fernando Alonso watching it in the...
The TV pen, you know, coming out and turning around and saying only he can do that, describing it as magic. You can't legislate for that if you're McLaren. But Verstappen's not going to be able to perform like that every lap of qualifying, every race for the rest of the season. And as Andrea Stella, the McLaren team principal, was saying after... Suzuka is very hard, no matter how good you are, it's very hard to...
consistently compete for the championship and win it without the fastest car. And Stella knows what he's talking about because you were talking about 2012 earlier, Harry. Stella was Fernando Alonso's race engineer at Ferrari through that season. It was Fernando Alonso's best season in his career. He was definitely a better driver that year than Sebastian Vettel, but even Alonso couldn't make it happen in that car.
So Verstappen's got a real task on his hands, even if it doesn't look like it at the moment, only one point behind Norris. So the one thing I'm slightly, maybe not worried about, but Fred Vasseur's recent comments, Team Principal Ferrari saying this is going to be a qualifying championship.
Because is this going to be something we see rinse and repeat? Because so far, the race winners, including the sprint, have all started from pole position. So is that something we're going to be a little bit worried about going forward? I think to a degree Formula One is always a qualifying championship, right?
You do yourself a lot of favours by qualifying at the front of the grid. Overtaking's always been hard in Formula 1. It's meant to be hard in Formula 1. It's harder at some tracks than others. I think we'll see this weekend in Bahrain. Much more sort of overtaking in racing than happened in Suzuka last weekend, just because of the nature of the circuit.
there'll be tyre offsets. Strategy is going to become much more of a factor in Bahrain because of the high degradation nature of the circuit. It's a very old surface in Bahrain. It has a lot of what they call macro roughness. Oh, now we're getting into it. Basically, it means if you look at the surface of the track, there's sort of... It's like holes between the stones if you look really closely at it. Whereas what happened, that's normally the case in Suzuka.
But what happened there was that they'd resurfaced the whole first sector, which is the most demanding sector of the lap on the tyres because of the high-speed first corner and then all the way through the S's, long corners, left, right, left, right, left, right. all of them quick. But because they'd resurfaced it, that macro roughness had gone and you had a bitumen layer on top of the tarmac and that takes the strain off the tyres.
That's not the case in Bahrain. So there'll be multiple pit stops, tyre offsets, and that's what gives overtaking and racing. Obviously, everyone wants to see racing and overtaking and action, but there are nuances to this. And if you're an absolute purist, I actually think that... You know, I think the race in Suzuka, okay, not much happened. But, you know, Verstappen, Norris and Piastri separated by nothing for an hour and a half.
There was a lot of jeopardy there, even if there wasn't a lot of excitement. So, and not every race is the same, you know, not all football matches are for free thrillers. The Science of F1 with Andrew Benson. I can see the new podcast. It's going to happen. It should be a full 30 minutes of Andrew looking at every single track surface throughout the year and the gaps in between the stones and the asphalt. That's what we want.
Maybe every week he could do a Pirelli interview, because I think that would be classic. That is not happening. Right. Andrew, you've already preempted this quite a bit, but let's hear from Oscar Piastri. on what McLaren could have done differently last time out. Qualifying ahead of Max was probably the key to that.
yeah i mean we we looked through it i mean i think it was pretty clear to see that you needed a very big pace advantage to overtake on sunday and you know the best way to overcome that is like I said qualifying a bit better but I think even in the race we were pretty limited with what we could do. I think we've spoken through a lot of the potential different scenarios we could have.
found ourselves in and what we actually could have done differently and I think the conclusion from all of those was there was either a big element of risk with not much chance of reward so I think you know there was still some things that we could have done a little bit differently to try and I think as a team we acknowledge that but I think also just putting into perspective how early we are in the season and not giving away points unnecessarily to people behind us was important as well.
Yeah, we've gone through a lot of things, but ultimately, I think our conclusion was make sure you qualify where you should be. So very similar, actually, to what Andrew said. Probably not a coincidence because I spent Sunday afternoon talking to Andrea Stella about it and I spent this afternoon listening to Oscar Piastri and Lando Norris talking about it. So I just want to say, actually, I've thought this for a while now, but I think one of the great things about McLaren is they're so open.
You know, they're so great at just saying, yeah, you know, we accept this, this and that, and we maybe could have done this differently, but that was a risk. I just love the way they're prepared to explain everything. But wasn't that one of the greatest assets of Mercedes in their time of being in control of the championship? They were quite honest and open with the media, with fans. Yes, I mean, Mercedes are very good at it too. I think McLaren perhaps have taken it even to a...
another level than that perhaps. There are other teams that are not like that. There are other teams that go out of their way to tell you as little as possible. But I think it's just great having them, you know, Norris and Piastri and Andrea and Stella, they're all prepared to just sit down and engage with the questions. and explain why something happened, whether it might have worked out or why it might not have done. And it's just great to see that.
Yeah, I agree. The McLaren are always very open and happy to help as well along the way. But just coming back to some of the stuff Piastri was saying there, and I don't want to bark on too much about what happened in Japan, but ultimately they were limited with their strategic options because of the tyre issues and the… inability to overtake and find you know different ways of getting past undercut overcut whatever it might be but I think
This could be a real issue going forward. And that's why I think this weekend is quite crucial because everyone loves Suzuka. It's an amazing circuit. We've seen better races there in the past. And it's not the track's fault, ultimately. I don't agree that... 100% of the lack of racing and the excitement was down to the resurface track and the tires.
I think ultimately the cars are too big at the moment. The tyres are too big. And there's all this chat about going back to V10 engines and using sustainable fuels in the next few years in the 2026 regulations that are coming in. And all this chatter about where we're going. I think actually, if you look at the season so far, Australia was an absolutely brilliant race, but let's be honest, it was due to the conditions. China, okay.
It's a couple of weeks ago and I'm struggling. And Japan, well, there you go. We have only had a week on and I think we'll struggle to stay awake. I just think that this weekend will be crucial to see what it throws up. It's a wider track in general. I think there's a bigger question going forward here about the direction of where Formula One is going and how these cars and how the shape of the championship looks. Well...
I don't know whether we want to get into the whole engine debate. The rules are changing for next year. We've got one more year of these cars, and then we'll see what the new cars look like. I think the interesting thing about the championship, just briefly on Japan, the issue for McLaren was that should they have stopped Norris earlier and gone for an undercut on Verstappen? The reason they didn't was that they...
If Norris had done that, he would have come out in traffic, which is problematic. And then Russell pitted to try to undercut the Ferraris and maybe Piastri, and that meant they had to respond with Piastri. Because if they didn't respond with Piastri, then he would have ended up fourth.
would probably have still been second behind Verstappen. So they've had a net loss if they'd done that. And then once they'd pitted Piastri, they had to pit Norris on the next lap. But the problem was the game had been given away by then. So Red Bull pitted Verstappen on the same lap. So they were kind of a bit stuck.
And I think that's why they've concluded that there wasn't really a lot else they could have done. But the macro picture in terms of the championship is where it gets interesting. Because if that was Red Bull, there would have been no hesitation.
pit Verstappen, go for the undercut, forget the second driver. But McLaren aren't running their team like that. We've got two teams running in completely opposite ways. So we don't know yet, first of all, whether Tsunoda can even interfere with the McLarens. He might not be quick enough. But you've got two McLaren drivers that the team are allowing to race.
And they're having to think about both of them. And if they're running this closely together and Verstappen's in the mix too, over and over again, it's going to throw up these decisions for McLaren as to what do they do? How do they try and beat Verstappen if he's in the mix when they've got two drivers who are nominally competing against each other? And we saw last year already. that when in the heat of the moment, when McLaren have to make those decisions...
They sometimes didn't make the right call. I'm thinking back to hungry last year. So how do they ensure going forward, Harry, that they make the right call? Or are they doing that already by favouring both drivers and that's just their approach and that's what fans have to get behind because they're never going to just favour one driver at this point? Ultimately, I just don't think that's going to work in the long run.
having two number ones it ultimately won't because at some point it will come back to okay well Piastri didn't get that podium in Australia so he's on less points therefore Lando Norris is ahead in the championship based on the consistency he's got so we'll have to back him it will have to turn at some point. think this is quite the right way to go. I think you need to dig in and favour a driver for the title because it only ends bad.
There's two different philosophical approaches to this, aren't there? I think most fans would like to see drivers racing. Most fans don't like teams imposing team orders. And if you're going to employ two top-level drivers, as McLaren have chosen to, you've kind of got no choice. You have to run it that way. You have to run it fairly and freely in allowing them to race. otherwise you're going to lose one of those drivers.
I think McLaren learned a lot of lessons last year. Let's not forget where they've come from. It's not that long ago since they were pretty much at the back of the grid. And the story at the end of last year was that in the space of 18 months, they turned themselves from a team running at the back to world champions. And so through the summer, Jenny, you mentioned Hungary last year.
I think they found themselves quite quickly in a load of situations that they weren't expecting. They weren't expecting to be in championship contention at all last year. And even when they... turned out to have the sort of consistently on average quickest car.
They were far enough behind Verstappen that they didn't really think that they were in contention for the Drivers' Championship with Norris either. And in hindsight, probably they weren't. But they saw a sliver of an opportunity and decided they had to go for it. But it was all a bit late and it all sort of... One decision came on top of another. They've had last season to go through, and you could even see the progress from last year, whether it be from the team.
all from Norris himself racing Verstappen, for example. Look how different it was in his races with Verstappen wheel-to-wheel from Austria, where they crashed together. Austin, where he didn't crash with him, but he ended up with a penalty, unfairly some thought, to Mexico the next race where he basically tricked Verstappen into going over the limit and getting penalties himself.
You've seen that kind of progression from the team too. So we're only three races in. They've got the quickest car. They're trying to run their team in a way that I think most sporting purists would want them to run it. but it just makes it that bit more interesting for all of us watching it because the team that they're racing against are so different. Let's cast our minds back and talk about Ferrari.
It's not so long ago since Lewis Hamilton got his first win in a Ferrari. Yes, it was China and yes, it was a sprint race. So it was only on 15 points in the Drivers' Championship. But what do you think? They're bringing upgrades this weekend, Harry. How have you rated Hamilton's first three races with Ferrari? To get that sprint win was pretty amazing. All right, not really the most resounding success.
Yes. Well, look, I mean, it's hard to judge a new driver in a new team after three races. You know, you've really got to give them a little bit more time than that, even if it's Lewis Hamilton and he won't be happy with where they've started the season. You know, look, it's not, but it's not like Charles Leclerc is.
challenging for the podium and the win week in week out the bigger question for Ferrari is why are they not able to be up there and challenging week in week out Sounds like they've got a general... issue with lack of pace. They're running higher with their ride heights, so they're not able to run lower to the ground. And that's the reason why Lewis Hamilton got disqualified in China, because running too low and the skid blocks start...
shaving away. They've got some rear instability, which is not going to help them out this weekend either. Let's see what that new floor brings with their upgrade. But I think they have got some work to do. They've got to dig in and develop their car. And, well, who better to do it with than with a seven-time champion and Charles Leclerc? Well, Lewis Hamilton was asked how he would rank a Ferrari start to the season. Let's hear from him.
I'm not going to rank it. It's not what we've worked for and it's not where we want to be, but it is how it is. And all we can do is try to build on, you know, we've learned a lot over the past three races.
understand the car a lot better we've got an upgrade this weekend so we're we're moving towards staying positive and not focusing on this weekend um and you know they're obviously looking forward they've Lewis Hamilton isn't downbeat yet But just explain, how can they win a race but not a Grand Prix?
OK, so, yeah, you're talking about the sprint in China. Well, Charles Leclerc said in Japan that he thought that was Lewis, as he put it in his words, outperforming the car. I think what happened in China was that... Hamilton and his side of the garage, they locked onto a setup that worked really well for the sprint qualifying. That put Hamilton on pole. And from pole, he controlled the race. And we saw, I think it's Oscar Piastri's phrase, you know, clean air is king.
We saw real evidence of that in the sprint in China because Hamilton could just kind of control the race initially and then drive into the distance as the other driver's tyres behind him. went off, and of course Verstappen fell back and ended up being overtaken by Piastri, which protected Hamilton from the McLarens too. But that wasn't the overall performance of the Ferrari. I mean, I spoke to Hamilton in Japan and I asked him, you know, if they hadn't gone the wrong way on setup.
from the sprint into Grand Prix qualifying in China, where did he think he could have qualified? He said he thought he could have qualified in the top three. Of course, that was only speculation. We don't know that. But the bottom line is the car is just not as quick as they expected. They have made progress with it from last year. They ended last year, let's not forget, in a very close fight with McLaren for the Constructors' Championship.
McLaren have made quite a significant step with their car. Ferrari haven't made as much of a step. And this ride height thing that Harry mentioned, I don't know how, Fred Vasseur was trying to play that down. He was saying, look, all the teams are trying to run the cars as low as possible.
Then you run into a situation where you're running the car too low and it's hitting the track too much and then you might get disqualified, which is what happened to Hamilton in the Grand Prix in China. We've got a pretty clear picture of where the Ferrari... performance floor is at the moment and that's behind McLaren and somewhere in the mix with Red Bull, Mercedes and them and you know it is slightly different from driver to driver and track to track.
So it's going to be really interesting to see where this floor upgrade that they're bringing to Bahrain this weekend, where that puts them. And let's not forget, you know, the season's 24 races long. They've only had three so far, 21 to go. Ferrari have actually started slowly every year apart from 2022 under these new regulations.
23 was a really difficult year for them, but they did make significant progress towards the end. 24 was less of a difficult year for them, but they were definitely off the pace at the beginning of the year compared to the Red Bull, and yet they ended it as probably with the equal fastest car with the McLaren. So it's far from all lost. And as I was saying earlier, it's just really close and small margins are going to make differences this year.
Could Harry this still be a four-team race for the championship? Yeah, why not? We're only three races. And look, the other thing to bear in mind is that actually, well, I mean, McLaren were keen to play it down, but we've got this sort of thing rumbling on in the background, which is the flexi wing. debate and they are well the rules around that are going to be literally stiffened up around the Spanish Grand Prix time which is when
Red Bull seem to think that they're going to come into a big performance gain. McLaren Oscar Piastri in the press conference today was very much playing that down. It will have an effect because there's a reason teams are doing that and running their wings as flexible as they can because they're gaining an advantage from it. So when that is stiffened up, you lose that advantage. So how much will that...
have a effect on the competitive order. We shall see. And we saw it last year, as Andrew said. This is much a championship on the track as it is off it. It's an upgrade race too. But the other thing is some will cut things off sooner rather than later because next year we rip up the rule book and we start afresh. So some teams will call it quits earlier than others. And that's what we will wait to see pan out.
Right, Andrew, your moment, the FIA. Just to have a brief surmise of what's happened, I suppose really, between the last race and this. Big development this morning. Robert Reid, the Deputy President for Sport of the FIA, resigned in a letter that he sent to the media and then he sent various other letters to the various parts of the FIA and to the Formula One drivers and Formula One team principals. making accusations that are not unfamiliar to anyone who's been following.
The FIA story over the last two or three years since Mohammed bin Salim became president, Robert Reid described a fundamental breakdown in governance standards. Within Motorsport's global governing body, he said he had a growing alarm over critical decisions being made without due process or proper consultation.
The FIA have obviously rejected his complaints and said that they've got exceptionally robust corporate governance policies. But of course, it's their corporate governance policies and the fact that they've changed them in the last few months, which has been alarming many of the FIA's own members. And Reid has finally acted on that and stepped down. It's quite a blow for Ben Salim's reputation. Robert Reid was a member of his leadership team.
when he was elected FIA president in December 2021. So to have, they've fallen out over the last year or so, but to have that person publicly... say, you're not doing a good job and you're acting in an authoritarian way effectively is quite a big moment. And not only that, but today as well. Natalie Robin, the former chief executive officer of the FIA, who left under a cloud in the middle of last year. has finally gone public. She spoke to BBC Sport.
and said that the FIA was going through serious, ongoing structural challenges. At the time that Robin left, it was said by the FIA that it was by mutual agreement, but I can reveal that that wasn't the case. She was forced to resign. following disagreements with Ben Salayim. So two big developments on the FIA political front, and that's at the start of a weekend, coincidentally or otherwise, that happens to be Ben Salim's first appearance at a Grand Prix this year.
And tomorrow morning, there's a meeting of F1's engine manufacturers and the FIA and F1. where they'll be discussing Ben Saliam's desire to basically abandon the 2026 regulations on engines early and introduce naturally aspirated V10s instead. That plan's not going to go ahead. I can tell you already, even before the meeting happens, they may agree to carry on talking, I think. But a big week on the political front in Formula One.
Just very quickly, Andrew, what does this say for the FIA president and the election that could happen at the end of this year? Because I think that's the headline that most people want to know the answer to. It's a very good question, Jenny. Ben Salim's four-year term comes up in December. He's facing re-election. At the moment, he's the only candidate standing in that election. There's rumours going around that there will be opposition to him. And...
Whether it was coordinated or not, these things that have happened in the last 24 hours, I forgot to mention, by the way, that David Richards, the UK motorsport head, has also criticised Ben Salim again. That happened last night before Robert Reeves' departure this morning. Whether it was coordinated or not, it certainly looks coordinated. And so I suspect he will face opposition. Whether whoever he faces as an opponent can do anything about Ben Salahim is a different question.
He has significant support among the FIA member clubs for various reasons. So I think this is going to be one that's going to run and run through the year and we're going to have to just watch it as it plays out, Jenny. And Harry, the FIA haven't been the most popular either for their penalty that they applied to Carlos Sainz, who was late for the national anthem last time out. He was fined 10,000 euros.
10,000 euros, I believe being five seconds late. But today in the media, he's been asked about that and he swore. which then could imply or get another fine from the FIA. It's just an awkward matter, isn't it? This swearing and this being late.
Well, it's a joke, isn't it? That's what it is. It's just an absolute joke. I think he'll get away with not getting a fine for the press conference, I think, because he didn't say the F word and he didn't use it in a... insulting manner is apparently maybe what they're trying to cling on to.
So we shall see about that one. The 10,000 fine was reduced because the FIA and the stewards are being very kind and it only being five seconds because it was a stomach issue that he was struggling with. It would have been 60,000 euros down to 20,000.
and then reduced to 10,000, paying it on the dot. I think Carlos Sainz did bring up a good point. He'd like to know, and so would we all, where that money goes is the other crucial point. Does it go to grassroots level motorsport? How is it reinvested into... uh the world of formula one and motorsport that would be the crucial thing because it's a drop in the ocean for him but for somebody a charity or whatever it may be that could be massive so
have a similar opinion on this situation. They don't know why the FIA is making such a big deal about swearing in public, but they do accept that in a news conference, you probably shouldn't swear. You can control yourself. But in the heat of the moment, in the car or maybe just after getting out of it, it's a different matter and there should be a bit more leeway. What's going to be interesting about this is if the FIA are going to be consistent about their approach,
an approach that people don't think they should be taking, but they are nevertheless, then they're going to have to find Sainz because he has sworn in a press conference. It's not as rude a word as Max Verstappen used in Singapore last year, but it is still a swear word. And he very clearly, if you watch the press conference, he very clearly knew what he was doing. He knew it was a swear word he was about to use. It was done in quite a studied fashion. So he hasn't really got an excuse.
So, look, they've just made a very difficult situation for themselves, the FIA. And if they don't find science for this, then, which most people would think they shouldn't because it's, you know, many people would regard it as ridiculous. I'm not taking sides, by the way. I'm just reflecting what the general view would be, I think.
Then they're going to have difficulty explaining why they haven't fined him, but they did fine Max Verstappen or give him community service as it happens. They did fine Charles Leclerc. in Mexico, and they did fine one of the rally drivers over the winter. The Formula One drivers and the rally drivers are both at loggerheads with the FIO over this.
And George Russell was, in a very polite and guarded way, expressing his exasperation with this. He's the other GPDA director, apart from Carlos Sainz. And there was a bit of levity, I should say. The reason Carlos Sainz was late for the national anthem was that he had a stomach upset and he was in the toilet. And Russell described it as a pretty expensive poo.
Expert analysis. Not spending a penny. Ultimately, it's ridiculous, isn't it? And I hope he just gets some sort of verbal warning and a reminder of the position that he's in, because yes, ultimately... But they can't. They can't do that because they've already put it out there that you can't swear. So if they don't fine him again, then that's not fair for all the other people who have been fined. Formula One's not fair, is it?
Life is not fair, Harry. Right. Just before we wrap up Bahrain this weekend, Harry, who are you predicting for the win? Who do you think, what's going to happen? I think Oscar Piastri is going to come into the frame this weekend and bounce back from being stuck behind.
Last weekend, I'm going to go for a Piastri McLaren win. First win for McLaren in Bahrain. Unbelievably. Can you believe that? Never stood on the top step of the podium in Bahrain. I can't, but thank you. There you go. You can have that one for free. Andrew. I think Norris. Yeah, I definitely see Norris doing well this weekend in the McLaren. But who knows?
Who knows? That is exactly it. Me? Oh, I hadn't even thought about it. Let's go for Charles Leclerc. He hasn't won anything yet. And I would like this... you know different driver for every different race to continue and go on for a while at least till monaco because that was what happened in 2012 Even last year, we had a decent run of different drivers winning races, didn't we, at some point? So, no, variety is the spice of
Formula One. Well, thank you very much to Harry, Andrew. Coverage of the Grand Prix weekend begins at 12.25 on Friday with FP1. Yay, we're back to normal times. The race is on Sunday afternoon on 5 Sports Extra. Lights out at 3pm. Build up from 2.45. This has been an IMG production for BBC Radio 5 Live.
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