This is every widow thing. This episode is brought to you in part by spiritpieces.com. Beautiful cremation jewelry and glass art pieces for people and pets. You can find their information on the Every Widow Thing Instagram highlight reel. Hi everyone. Today we're going to talk about one of the posts that we made on our Instagram page. If you guys aren't following, please go to Instagram right now and follow every widow thing for
fun things like this. I posted a video a couple of weeks ago asking for opinions because I heard a story. This was not my story, although people thought that it was. I didn't give too many specifics. But anyway, the deal was this person is dating someone, He's a widower, he's dating someone and that person was going to come and spend the weekend with him. And the woman requested that he move his wife's ashes out of the home before she came.
And I was shocked by this request because by the way, this person's had not put like the ashes in a prime location in the house. It wasn't like a shrine with pictures and candles and everything. This person had the ashes in a closet. And so I was really shocked by it. And so I put it out on Instagram and man, did people comment. 396 comments on Instagram. Wow. It was crazy. And for the most part, the comments were as expected. Get rid of him.
Ditch that person 'cause. They thought it was you. Well, they thought it was me and they were like, you know, absolutely not if they can't handle. I thought it was you, right? And then I had to call and be like oh. Yes, exactly. That's right. He's called me like, do we need to have a talk? I was like, it is not me. That person would have been kicked to the curb for sure.
But it was interesting because some of the comments really made me think differently, you know, 'cause immediately I was all mad about it and like, how dare she request such a ridiculous thing. But the more comments that came through, I started to realize there are a lot of different ways to think about this, you know? That's kind of the beauty of the process of throwing that out there. Yeah, it gave me what? You're going to get back.
Right. I mean, really, what it ended up doing for me was several people really wrote thoughtful comments saying, look, if this is this is obviously somebody that you care about, you've asked them to come and spend the weekend with you, why don't you have a conversation with this person and find out why? Because I'm immediately like, well, they're jealous and of a dead person, and that's ridiculous. Of ashes.
Right. But it could have been something like maybe they in their religious cult, in their culture, they feel like somebody actually wrote, why are you keeping death in your home? And I was like, oh, I hadn't thought of that. What could be Also, two people don't not everybody like me. I buried my husband in a in a
grave in a casket. Yeah, it wasn't even thought about Ash. It's not that there was anything wrong with it. It just didn't occur to me because a, because the church was kind of leading me that way and I just was kind of in the zone. And never. Thought out of it? Yeah. He was so young.
Yeah, I didn't think about it. And so I just did kind of what the preacher was like, yes, this is what people at this church do. And I was like, OK, and I was going, which going along with whatever they thought. But I imagine I kind of appreciate the thoughtful convents because I think we're all quick to react to a lot of things. I know I am. Yeah. The more I read those comments, the more I'm like, yeah, one person that had a reason. Which you commented back to them.
My question is, why do you have his ashes in your house? Bury them or place them in a place of peace for you, but they're in AI mean. Right. Maybe that was the place of peace. Maybe it maybe it was discussed now. Maybe that was some people. That was their request. Keep me in an urn in your home, or it's peaceful for all of us. I know I find peace and having him close by. I have Frank here with me today. I was about to say, clearly Kira does. He's hiding between the two.
Of us everywhere with me. There to know what's cool about that? Based on what I know, 'cause I never met him, he probably would want to go everywhere we would go, 'cause he's a lot of fun. Well, we're going to get to that later, 'cause we're going to talk about some options with that. But no, actually poor Frank has not been out of the house in almost 10 years. And he was like, I'm ready for a field trip. I wish I'd brought Toby. Fuck out the house.
That's right. Get Me Out and show me around and so. But you did have to. You had to clean him up a little bit, I heard. I did. And we we're going to get back to your Instagram post. But yes, I I've had Frank has been in the closet for 9 1/2 years. Finally come out of the closet? How? Many years later. And he's just on. He's just literally in like he no, he's in your closet where you get dressed and stuff. So it's not like a closet that you close the door like a coat closet.
No, it's in my master closet, which became sort of a sanctuary for me when I wanted to grieve or talk to him because it's kind of a quiet, hidden part of my house. And I was always trying to sort of find some privacy and not, you know, upset the kids. And, you know, my parents were lived with me for a year. So I was like, if I was grieving, I'll go in there, or if I was angry, I'll go in there and yell at him. Or if I had to tell him something good. I mean, I still do this.
I go in there and talk to him, but I had not taken him down from the shelf in a while. There was this one time I remember very clearly when I was in that very deep, deep, I was having just kind of one of those screaming, crying, yes, collapsing deep grief moments, moments which for me came. I mean, they they show up when you're least expecting, but it must have been a few months after because I was in the
hospital for a long time. Then I couldn't walk, and then I was up, so I was upstairs and I went into the closet and I was just sobbing uncontrollably. And I tried to get into the ashes. I remember I was, I was in my head. I was like, I'm going to eat some of these ashes. I missed him that much. Yeah, people probably think that's gross, but I was kind of out of my mind and I was releasing him so much and I was going to try to like, eat some of the ashes.
Oh man, and I remember. Thinking like this is crazy, but I still. Want to get in there, but I'm going to eat these and. I had had multiple surgeries on my arms and on my hands. And I'm not like blaming. Well, yeah, it is. Partly my dexterity was off. I could not open the thing. Let me look at it like, what is it? It's an urn, right? I. Couldn't have you have you still not opened it? No, it's still. I mean, I admit I'm fully avoidant of certain painful things, but I. Said.
If you want a taste of him now, I can get that. Let's get in there. I It is the same packaging that came from the Funeral Home, which I was not a part of, as you all know, because his I was in the hospital and his family took care of it. You know, I thought about an urn. Somebody gave me a really pretty
box at one point. But then I've heard these horror stories about, like, just this morning I'm working out with a friend and she's like, Oh yeah, you know, my Uncle Jerry was on the shelf and we were visiting my parents, and the boys were playing ball in the house. And they're going uncle. Jerry all over like no. Jerry. You know, like the door mat by the back door and they're sweeping him up and the boys are like inhaling him and they're like dust bustering and so. Oh my God, you know.
I just think I've got dogs, I've had little kids. I just feel like he's been safer in the closet. Right. But I'm I'm curious because I feel like my he, my husband is in a bag like it's a baggie. It's a bag in the box. I think there's a bag. There's a bag in the box in the velvet bag, but. I didn't have a box. You didn't spend money on my? Box I'm going to get this out right now. I know we're not videoing, so I her. Husband would have been happy that she didn't spend money.
On the box. Because he was a, he had a. Guy. He's just over there with like, your mouth. We. Didn't either I don't. Even know what's going on over here? I. She's opening it up. I went to get OK, there's some kind of certificate. So this is funny. I went to get him off the shelf this morning and I bring. I'm grabbing him between the workout and coming here, and the velvet bag is, like, covered in dust.
And so I come downstairs, I'm in the front hall looking for one of those, like, lint rollers, and my sweet cleaning lady is, you know, kind of cleaning. And I'm in the front hall, like rolling the dust off. Oh my God. Velvet bag full of ashes. Kind of absurd, but anyway. OK, so inside the velvet bag, the velvet bag is this little Cremation Services certificate, right? It just says you know, I guess it just says this is him. Frank Trenham Lyman the 3rd July 7th 2014.
He has a Crematory ID number 5021 and this is all the legalese. And then it's signed by the operator of Cremation Services. So that's very official. Why is that? Getting to be so, it just feels very anything in writing that's official makes it official so. This is what I was trying to get into when I wanted to have my little snack. Let me see now, I really wish I'd brought Toby's so we could compare the our boxes. I mean, I'm sure you can pop. This, but let me see.
Let me see that. With my broken hands, I couldn't figure it out. Oh, wow. What kind of box is it? I don't know. It's fancy. It's like this big black. I think mine is literally a plastic bag. Remember I told you the whole story? I. Think I think I spent the most on my box. Very heavy. Yeah, super heavy. There's a lot of it doesn't. Even look wooden it looks. Plastic. Plastic. It's plastic, so I I suspect, you know, I'd have to get, which, you know, I didn't get
this far. Maybe a screwdriver or something? Like that, I think for the best that you you were not, I think. It's for the best that it just. Didn't understand. But I think that these guys, these people are. Holly wants to hold. The ring. Holly wants. To hold the ring. I want to hold them. OK, we're now passing him around. We should have. I should have videoed it. Really. Don't tell y'all and I don't know how I. Mean. I I would know I. Could call them. Oh, she's getting. Slides off.
She's getting in there. I mean, do you want me to? Yeah, I mean, I guess I just thought maybe there wasn't a baggie. No, there's 100% of Baggies. I mean, the truth is, nobody know. How do you know unless you've been through it or you're a cremation? Person I don't want to. I don't want to bust it open in him spill out. You want to have a. Do you want to have a cuddle let? Me have a cuddle? Oh, Frank. Wow. Frank's heavy. You are quite a large man. It's a pleasure to hold you, Frank.
I can only do this because I'm almost 10 years out, right? For the for our listeners, you know none of this is easy. I'm going to bring Toby. Yeah, you know what? Holly, when you go home, video went here. Well, like and I'll do the same. Holly and I, we're going to get together with wine maybe and and have a little. Eat some of the ashes together. Not eating? No, no, no. I recently had his family,
Frank's family ask me for some. Well, I I'm going to try and do something with them, Not all of them, but some of them over the summer because it's the 10 year anniversary coming up of our accident in June. And so I'm going to talk to my kids about maybe taking some of him to New York, doing some
sprinkling. And then I was having this conversation with my sister-in-law, Sarah, who's so sweet and I can't believe we've never talked about this before, but I was like, hey, do you guys want some of this? And she was like, yeah, I think, you know, my parents want some. And I felt bad because it's not like I've been trying to keep him from them. No, and they didn't ask, so don't feel bad. Well, it's kind of a sensitive
subject. I mean, I remember when my mother-in-law came over soon after and she was like, where's Toby? And I'm like, he's on the side table next to my bed and she just went in my bedroom and sat in there with his ashes. But I never asked her if she wanted. Any you know what, I'm I'm laughing because remember when we had Dana on here and she shared that her in laws made a table with his golf pants and his golf shoes? Oh God. That's right. I wonder.
Golf pant table. Yes, with the shoes, yes. And she walked in and saw the shoes and freaked out. Yeah, walked into their house. I would think they would put some ashes on that table or something. Wasn't the table like the shoe like he was standing? Yeah, it was as if it was. From the. Table, stand down. It was his leg. Creepy in his golf shoes. Not his real legs, you guys. Shout out to Dana for that little nugget.
That's funny. I wonder what the percentage is of people that do this versus burial. I think that it's on the rise. I think more people are being cremated now it's it's less expensive and I don't know. I feel like. There's we're running out of places to. Bury It is very expensive. The headstone is very expensive, thousands of dollars. And then the plot is expensive, especially in Austin, TX. There's so little room at the one where everybody goes. Right. And I don't even remember where.
Right. You never. I never go to. Yeah. Do you wish you had ashes instead, Lacey? No, no. You don't feel the need to have. That's why it doesn't creep me out. It's just more it's. I feel like for me, I prefer to stay. No, it's not even foreign. It's just I I prefer to stay in the the physical, like he's still here. Like I didn't like the burial thing either. I hate it too. Anything that reminds he's under the ground. Yeah, my brain would go crazy with that.
I think it. Did every time it would rain, I would SOB like I thought he's under the ground and it's raining and he's cold. But then again I didn't like the other. I don't like either alternative so I just try to stay that he's with me. In here. Yeah, in in the in the physical so that I don't get so sad all the time because it's easy 12, 1/2 years out. I think some days, well, I went a week without thinking much about him. Well, I thought about that more than before.
We were in our podcast, and I thought, that's pretty cool. I went a month. I went six months without thinking much. But now everything's coming to the forefront. I kept wondering why 12 1/2 years later, are things really filling on the Are y'all noticing that doing this podcast, you think more about all of it? Yeah. Definitely. These ashes in nine years. Yeah, I am. It's like in the car with me riding along. I'm like going. So, Frank. Going to the podcast.
Look at Austin now. It's changed so much. What do you think? It's I think it's a really difficult concept for everyone's brain to grasp between the spiritual and the physical, right? And some people may prefer to have the ashes as kind of like, you know, we can sprinkle them and sprinkle him in different places. Whereas once you pick a plot that is, you know where they are and it's hard to move people at
that point. Well, that's a little more mobile, I guess, for me, and I don't know if you have this, going back to the video on Instagram, somebody was, you know, well that that same person. Like, you know, why don't you bury them or why don't you, you know, place them somewhere. And for me, I don't know where I'm going to be long term. Like I don't feel like I'm in my forever home. I don't even know if I'm in my
forever city. So I don't want to bury his ashes somewhere and then leave him, you know, in my mind I feel like at some point I will bury his ashes and probably the dogs and just have like a bench in a in my backyard with something pretty there where I can go and sit and just like a spiritual place, if that makes sense. But I don't.
Have. I mean, we only lived in Austin for four years when the accident happened, and neither of us were from here, so it didn't make sense for me to have him here. I didn't know if we were staying here or not. Well, and like Lacey, you never even go to the burial site. I don't like any of it. My, like, I remember being sort of judged by like not having a place. And oh, your boys need a place to go to be with Toby. I'm like they can be with Toby wherever they want.
We're being gross, were they? Being gross and. Keep in mind, Oliver was from Germany, so therein lies a big thing for me. I didn't know what to do. Hey, you're in your Greek. I mean, it was sudden death. I had less than 24 hours before. I'm having to think at 38. Where am I going to put him? He. I had to put both languages, which I had the wherewithal to put the tombstone in both languages, English and German.
I I had to help, help with that. I had to do a ceremony in English and German. I had a German singer. I mean, I was thinking, who gives a shit? I don't care where he is buried. I don't. I still don't care. I don't. He's not there. He's not there. He's not there. He's he's with us. Somebody told me early on in my grief, the soul is portable, so you don't need to. Oh, I just got chills. You don't need to worry about even even my little thing about burying the ashes and then moving away.
That's not him. Nope. He's with us. As much as we want him to be with us, it doesn't matter where we go. Frank was riding in the car with you with his ashes, and with this spirit I have, I have no doubt that Frank was sitting there on top of. His ass Frank is with us every time we're in a car. Oh no. And the kids, yeah, but that goes back to the Instagram thing. So it's interesting because these people cared. A lot of these people care a lot. Oh, they had the fact that
because I, I don't. I mean, I do comment on Instagram, but the fact that three weeks in, people are still commenting even though they can see that everyone else has commented and they're probably not saying anything new, give read us a couple of. One, this person felt very strongly. They said scatter. Those things, Hun, What are you hanging on to? Would you keep his embalmed corpse in the basement?
Get some therapy. Yes. I mean, like, wow, I. Think I made a little a little laughing face on that one, she was. Therapy. She was thinking, yeah. Girl, we're way ahead of you. We've had lots of therapy. Yeah, but I but she's thinking that the ashes are the same as having an embalmed corpse in my basement. But also I having if I had ashes were that's not hanging on to them. We're living with it.
I think we're all I mean especially if we're laughing while we're holding old Frank over here we clearly have moved through the grieving process. That doesn't mean that you don't have like I find that there everything's kind of polarizing. Do you notice that on Instagram, some people are just like furious and some people can be more compassionate? It's one or the other. There's a middle ground there. There's. Funny ones. I love the one. Run, Forest, run and then.
That was the whole, yeah. Yeah, and then big fat Nope in all caps. One person also brought, and this is kind of more on the on my initial reaction which was of anger of like how dare you why would you do this But one person commented have him sit down with your children and explain why the ashes are going to have to leave the house and I was like woo that's. Well, I think it touches a nerve, probably because it's happened to them in some form, in some form that this has become an issue.
Like, you know, like Kira didn't get the opportunity to decide if he was going to be in the ground or who's going to be ashes. I mean, it just got done for her and she just had to accept what was done. My case, I was so out of it. I just did what the preacher told me to do and at the end of the day, I didn't really care. But it is amazing to me that people care so much. Like, that's what it blew my mind. I I mean. People that probably haven't had to deal with it.
That's the thing, that's what. Bothers me is you're commenting on things that you have not, you know know anything about. And the other thing that's interesting about the situation that you're talking about, Whitney is like, OK, so now I am a grieving person. I've lost my spouse. I'm branching out to this new relationship. I'm trying really hard to open myself up to new love, and this person is asking me to remove my late spouse's ashes from the
home. I mean, if I didn't have you guys, who am I going to call up and be like? Hey, can I park my husband's ashes at your house for the weekend? Right. Because. My girlfriend's coming over. My boyfriend's coming over. Like who? That's just like more stress that you're adding. I also say, hey, Brendan, on to. Another difficult you know, you're it's already a difficult situation.
You're you're already trying to, like, create a new life for yourself, and now you have to deal with that extra layer of like, well, where am I moving him out to the car every time my boyfriend comes? Over one of the comments was put him in the car. I mean, that's just a lot to ask when you're trying to build trust. And what does it? OK, so I actually talk. I'm dating someone. He was over last night. I was actually talking to him about it because I still have my
husband's clothes in the closet. You know, I would think that would bother somebody before the ashes, right? A basket of dirty laundry. Yeah, I know, I know. But he but he said I'm not if I if I thought it was something that you were obsessing about or and he did, he he was like, it doesn't bother me. I'm not jealous, you know, and you don't, you don't make me feel like you're comparing me or or any of those things. So I don't have a problem with it. But he did say, which I thought
was interesting. He was like, but if we ever moved into a home together, I would want to have some conversation about where he would go. And I was like. Oh, that's valid. Yeah. So Brendan and I are combining households and we're looking at redoing the master closet, doing a makeover and kind of making it more organized. And so Frank, we'll need to find a new home probably, but that hasn't come up for us. Like where is he going?
And then back to the whole If he's sitting on a shelf somewhere, what if something happens? Now he's in this box that I can't even open. I don't think anything's going to happen. He's not. Getting out of that box. Yeah, I think you're safe. I. Have another friend who I want to have on a widow that I've met recently and she was saying that her house flooded while she was at work. Like the washing machine right?
Flooded the house and the neighbors came over and we're running through the house trying to save things from the water and everything. And she catches. She comes home from work and one of the neighbors, like, has her husband. It's like we. Got like and it's like, is this, you know, does this go in the dumpster or is this she's like, no, keep her throw. Away she's like. I'll take that. So how? Much water was. I mean, my my husband's ashes are up high on a shelf.
It's not like they would be. I don't know. We'll have to have her on. That's so. Funny. I don't know. I guess I was paranoid about things like that occurring. But yeah, no, we're going to redo this closet and I will have to rehome him. Yeah, but he's staying in the home. He's not going and Brendan is. I mean, has it ever even come up? Has it ever come up? It came up. We have had a lot of in and out of Frank's things.
One dear friend kept a lot of his clothes in a storage facility that she recently was shutting down. And so he went with me to collect those things. And then some of it is, I'm just waiting for my son to come back from college and kind of go through and decide, you know, what are we going to keep and what? What are we going to donate? But there's already clothes around. I mean, the girls, they wear T-shirts, you know, we have the The Dirty, The Dirty laundry in
the closet also. I'm not really sure what to do with that. I'm like, what did Brendan say about? That you know to his friend he. Didn't. Know it's he hasn't. Put his foot down in any way, which is really sweet, he hasn't said. I mean, obviously the first time he went in your closet, was he like, what's? That it's kind of up on a shelf, which is where the ashes were. Yeah. I think he was just like, OK.
I think part of it after a while, like clothes I just now I'm just, it's laziness kind of. It's like I need to get this situated and you know get rid of these things or put them somewhere. And then part of it for me is that, and we've talked about this, the kids come in and I mean they're getting to an age where they're like, hey, do you have, you know, does Dad have any nice button down shirts or what about a tie or you know, even a heavy coat?
My son was going to go to a formal dance at in college like in January and he was home for the holidays. And I was like here, here's a nice coat that was your dad's that you can wear with something nice. But I. Think there's a fear for me behind giving, and I'm sure we all have this giving something away or getting rid of something that it might have been meaningful. Yeah, like dirty laundry. Well, also one therapist. I think I've said this before.
One of the therapist I went to see, not the first. The original was awesome. Several years in, I went to see somebody when I was dating somebody. It was the person that he recommended, and she hated the idea that I kept his clothes, hated it. She thought it was terrible. And I said, well, I'm not in there sniffing them every day. They're in the attic and they're
all labeled. And the good news is, is that now writer is in London, in school, at school, and it's much colder there than in Texas. He took all of all of her sweaters, which were, I mean, 'cause he was from Humberg, so he had tons of sweaters and coats and his all of his Hugo Boss pants, which I lack. I would never buy that expensive a pants for my son to wear just for kicking around, right? I mean, my husband did. So he's wearing all these really
nice clothes, and why not? And he's loving it. I put Toby's clothes into the boys closets and some of them don't fit anymore. But and I also after I took the the things that I really liked, I had Toby's best friends that you know would fit in his clothes. They came over and picked out some shirts they wanted and it's really sweet because I've seen them since then and they're like I have on Toby's shirt, which I obviously recognize it, but they're so that is dark to have it on.
I love that. And Gabe and Zach wear like all his T-shirts and stuff. And that's what he would want. Yeah, someone said to me one time and I thought this was really funny. Brother Rodgers, I'm going to give you credit for this, he said. We white people bury the dead so quickly and I got tickled because it is kind of true. It's like hurry. We had to wait two weeks because one of our relatives didn't have their, their passport was out, was expired.
So they had to like expedite it, whatever, get over. So it took us two weeks to get it all together for the funeral and all that. And but he said, it's so true. Like we're in such a hurry to get rid of the ashes. Such a you know, like people wanting us to get rid of the ashes or or to or do something with their clothes or someone like, I'm not kidding you, within six months someone wanted me to take off my ring and I was like none.
Of your damn business. No, I'm going to do it when I like it. Don't you say? Is going to change my mind about don't be gross. We didn't have time employees. I mean, we all decide when we want to take our ring off and when we want to clean their closet out. And no judgment. If you want to eat some of your loved ones ashes. No judgment. Just maybe don't tell anyone, yeah? So I just told everyone.
But guess what? That was just that was that's not really that unusual because I actually, a couple years ago, this was in my stand up when I did the whole death stand up. I saw that show, strange addictions, and there was a woman on there and she would take her loved ones, ashes around every, everywhere with her, like you're doing with Frank today, just today. And she would, And she would sprinkle him on her food. She would eat him.
And OK, I was like, that is. Bizarre that even has passed for me. But even JJ Elliott the the book there are no rules for this. The girls all put some of their friends ashes in the wineglass and drank it, so it's not as weird as you may think. Well, it kind of goes down to everything, like from dating, like we can have our thoughts on it, but to judge somebody when they're in their deep grief is
cruel. Well, one person maybe you have this comment written down, Holly, but I remember one person saying, why were you? Why does he even know that you have the ashes? Why are you even talking about it? And what people don't realize is it's not like I sat my boyfriend down and said now I'm going to talk to you about these ashes in here. It's just when you're when you're meeting someone and it's it didn't even have to be a a partner.
Just when you're having conversations with people about your dead husband, it does come up. Was he buried? Where's he buried? Or do you have his ashes or, you know, it's just comes up. It's not like I made a point. Actually, I don't. Know that anybody's ever asked me where he was buried. Where's he buried, lazy? She doesn't know I dated someone two years. And they never asked. I don't. Even know that he did.
That's so funny. We drove by, We drive by the cemetery when my son was was back, and when he was in middle school and high school. We drove by it every day. And sometimes we got to the point where right and I would laugh. We'd be like, what's up, Dad? And like, keep going. Right, right. But that's cute. I don't know that it yeah, it got at first. It was horrible. I remember going by the first year when he was in 6th grade, just going and it mean it had been six years by then.
Weird. But it was weird about going by every day and I'd go by and just be like that, crossing my eyes, looking at it and just not saying anything to writer because he's still in the back seat, right? And then as time went on, we got to where we could laugh about it, like wonder what he's up to over there with all those. I guess they're just dying to get in. We used. To make all the. Stupid jokes and they're just dying, laughing over there at us and and. What's the alternative really?
I mean, it is it is funny in a way. It's it's surreal. It it seems ridiculous, you can cry about it or you can make a funny joke. You know what's kind of cool is the evolution of it. I remember when before the headstone was put in. This is very different from Y'all's situation. It was. I remember it being raining and it was horrible. I was like, OK, now it's depressing, it's raining and I can't find the plot because
there's no headstone. I still don't even know if I could, because I'd never go, I think. We need to all four go. Yeah, it would be. We're going to go if I could find it because all the markers were gone. Sprinkle sprinkles to match some of our action we. Can put off. Party. Do you want to? Be so. I don't know. I don't know what I want. I just want to die and don't care whatever writer wants to do with. Me. I want to be cremated. I don't. I don't care. Right. Makes no difference to me
because I'm dead. But like we were going there and writer created this little tombstone out of paper. He drew a tombstone on paper. So keep in mind he's six years old right. So he draws a little and he puts it in the place and and Oliver's picture was there and it and I remember looking at all the the the flowers were dead. And I I took a picture of occasionally it'll come up as a
memory it's it's it's gross. And then flash forward years later 6th grade, 7th grade, 8th grade, probably about eighth grade. Then we were going by laughing and I thought well look how far we've come from. I hated going there to riding by joking about it. Now just don't think about it almost ever, because he's not there. No, they're not there. They're portable. They're hanging out with us or they're doing their they're doing taking care of business up there. Thanks for joining us today,
guys. Come back for Part 2 of Ashes. Ashes, We all hold Frank where we continue the conversation and give you all kinds of ideas of things you can do with your loved ones. Ashes, are you enjoying the Every Widow thing episodes? Do us a favor, go on over to wherever you get your podcast and actually follow the show. And if there's an option for rate or review, please do that. We'd really appreciate it.