On this episode of Embracing Erosion , Devon sits down with Jeff Hardison, CRO of CaseMark and former VP of Product Marketing at Calendly. They discuss the complexities behind operating a hybrid go-to-market motion, the positioning and messaging LinkedIn industrial complex, the nuances of product marketing and leadership in startups vs enterprise organizations, and they even touch on GTM engineering. Enjoy the conversation!
Jun 30, 2025•42 min•Season 2Ep. 8
On this episode of Embracing Erosion , Devon sits down with Rahim Kaba, the VP Analyst at Gartner, focused on the product marketing discipline. Together, they dive deep into the current high priority areas for product marketing organizations, common mistakes that are being made, how the function differs from early stage to enterprise, the emergence of Centers of Excellence, and the future outlook of the discipline. Enjoy the conversation!
Jun 16, 2025•39 min•Season 2Ep. 7
On this episode of Embracing Erosion , Devon sits down with Karen Budell, CMO of Totango, an enterprise leader in customer success software. Karen was also named one of Pavilion’s “50 CMOs to Watch.” Together, they dive deep into two critical topics: how to build a brand that scales, and what it really takes to integrate companies during mergers or acquisitions—culturally, operationally, and strategically. The episode wraps with sharp advice for product marketing leaders aspiring to move into th...
Jun 02, 2025•34 min•Season 2Ep. 6
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Jason Smith, the visionary CEO and Co-Founder of Klue. They discuss building bootstrapped businesses vs VC-backed, the risks associated with starting a company, why hiring is a make-it-or-break-it, the downside of corporate decision-making processes, the pros and cons of building in Canada vs the U.S., how often the company vision should evolve, and implementing a community-led growth model, and much more. Enjoy!
May 19, 2025•55 min•Season 2Ep. 5
On this episode of Embracing Erosion , Devon sits down with Julia Szatar, the Head of Marketing at Tavus, a fast-growing generative AI company redefining what’s possible with personalized video at scale. They discuss Julia’s experience with Loom during their hyper-growth period post-COVID, what lessons she has taken away from that experience, how she balances priorities and planning in her role at Tavus (whose core products are large language models), advice for product marketing leaders looking...
May 05, 2025•45 min•Season 2Ep. 4
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon was joined once again by Ryan Sorley. Ryan is the VP of Win-Loss and Co-founder at Klue, having sold his research firm, DoubleCheck Research to Klue a few years back. With a career rooted in research and strategy, Ryan has worked with hundreds of B2B tech companies to help them understand why they win and lose deals. He’s held roles at leading firms like Forrester and Gartner and recently authored Blindspots: The Ultimate Guide to Building a Better Win...
Apr 21, 2025•43 min•Season 2Ep. 3
On this episode of Embracing Erosion , Devon sits down with Max Shaw, Co-Founder of Windmill, an AI company focused on helping people managers be more effective. Prior to founding Windmill, Max worked at Yext for over a decade, departing as the SVP of Product Management, where he oversaw Product Management, Product Marketing, and UX teams. They disscuss Max's journey from early software projects to his long tenure at Yext and co-founding Windmill, exploring his perspectives on product management...
Apr 07, 2025•52 min•Season 2Ep. 2
On this episode of Embracing Erosion , Devon sits down with Gary Arnold, a seasoned go-to-market leader with a unique blend of experience across sales, product, and product marketing. Gary built and led the global product marketing function at PayPal and GoDaddy, and has served in sales leadership roles at Amazon and CardTapp, where he was the Chief Revenue Officer. They dive into marketecture building, how to measure platform success (vs revenue-based, siloed product KPIs), how he scaled a nasc...
Mar 24, 2025•1 hr 2 min•Season 2Ep. 1
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Lori Goode, the Chief Marketing Officer of Index Exchange. They discuss what working in hospitality can teach you about being a marketer, why the pace of innovation is what makes ad tech so attractive, the difference between mentors and sponsors, how to advocate for your career, why streaming TV remains so nascent and exciting, why consumer values must be reflected in brands, how ChatGPT is disrupting SEO, how to build your annual plans and ...
Nov 04, 2024•56 min
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Julie Towns, the VP of Product Marketing at Pinterest. They discuss the messy middle of the shopping journey and how Pinterest is in a position to help consumers and brands alike, the power of having a singular focus, the importance of retrospectives, how to lead remote teams, the nuances of having Product Marketing report into Product vs Marketing, and much more. Enjoy!
Oct 21, 2024•1 hr
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Janine Gianfredi, the Chief Marketing Officer at Transcarent and the former Chief Marketing Officer at the United States Digital Service under the Obama Administration. They discuss the healthcare industry and why and how it needs to be simplified, the differences between making decisions at a startup vs an enterprise, lessons from working within Google's innovation unit, X, what it’s like getting recruited by the White House and serving as ...
Oct 07, 2024•53 min
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Emma Stratton, the Founder of Punchy, a consulting and training firm that helps B2B tech companies with messaging. They discuss why you should create and invest in a brand, how to break through your mental ceiling, how to write more clearly and with impact using SMIT (you’ll learn what this means), why it is better to operate off of faith not fear, and much more. Enjoy!
Sep 23, 2024•57 min
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Marcus Andrews, the Sr. Director of Product Marketing at Pendo. They discuss how to build a strategic narrative and why it's critical for any business, why GTM models are cyclical and not linear, how to measure product marketing teams' performance, why making quick, iterative decisions is the way to go, and much more. Enjoy!
Sep 09, 2024•1 hr 9 min
On this episode of Embracing Erosion , Devon sits down with Cody Bender, Chief Product Officer at Boardable, to explore how his diverse experience across multiple industries has equipped him to innovate in the nonprofit tech space. They dive into the unique challenges and opportunities of building products for nonprofit boards, the evolving landscape of nonprofit operations, and how unbundling a core product can drive growth. Cody also shares insights on harnessing voice of customer data effecti...
Aug 26, 2024•52 min•Season 1Ep. 46
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Layne Cox, the CMO of Union and multi-time unicorn company marketing leader (Slice, Ibotta, Grubhub). They discuss why point-of-sale (POS) is dead, how Union can help restaurants and bars provide exceptional experiences for their guests, break down the business model and analyze how to create a marketplace flywheel, define how to become a stronger leader, and much more. Enjoy!
Aug 12, 2024•47 min•Season 1Ep. 45
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Fluvio Principals, Shari Diamond and Tom Crist. Given their roles overseeing strategy with a handful of clients each quarter (companies like Amplitude, Worldpay, eBay, OpenX, and many others) these two are perfectly situated to give us the low down on what c-suite execs are looking for out of their product marketing teams and to break down trends they see in market.
Jul 29, 2024•38 min•Season 1Ep. 44
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Alex Pattis, the General Partner of Riverside Ventures and founding team member of Hampton. They discuss how to scale a company from concept to 9-figure exit, how to break away from the traditional consulting model and apply product approaches, why it’s important to iterate quickly and often with messaging, the pros and cons of Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) investing vs the traditional VC fund model, what signals are important to pay attenti...
Jul 15, 2024•45 min•Season 1Ep. 43
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with friend of the pod and Ignition CEO, Derek Osgood. They discuss the launch of Ignition 2.0, updates to their GTM strategy, and the state of B2B software. Enjoy!
Jul 01, 2024•30 min•Season 1Ep. 42
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Amanda Groves, the VP of Product Marketing at Enable and one of Sharebird’s Top 100 Product Marketing Leaders in 2022 and 2023. They break down the recent McKinsey report on product marketing and the latest data from the Product Marketing Alliance and discuss the tools the best product marketing teams need, how PMMs can and should use AI, how to become inspired and manage stress, and much more. Enjoy!...
Jun 17, 2024•52 min•Season 1Ep. 41
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with seasoned tech CPO and GM, Scott Gaines. They discuss the importance of empathy when implementing big changes, why it’s often better to simplify and reduce product offerings in order to realize larger opportunities, the magic of combining industry veterans with fresh, ambitious outsiders during GTM processes, how to develop resiliency as an individual and as a leader, and so much more. Enjoy!
Jun 03, 2024•52 min•Season 1Ep. 40
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Ben Slater, the Senior Vice President of Marketing at Beamery, a leading talent lifecycle management platform. They discuss how to grow a 50+ person marketing team from scratch, how leadership skills and requirements evolve throughout a company's lifecycle, how to use technology and AI to hire based on potential vs past experience, why it’s becoming increasingly critical to understand and map existing internal talent for redeployment on busi...
May 20, 2024•48 min•Season 1Ep. 39
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with product marketing leader and career coach, Yi Lin Pei. They discuss how to build a cult following on LinkedIn, how to nail (and fail) an interview, how to accelerate into a leadership role, what the perfect 90-day onboarding plan looks like, and much more. Enjoy!
Apr 22, 2024•53 min•Season 1Ep. 38
This episode is going to be a bit unique. As a part of our new partnership with the Product Marketing Alliance, we get access to PMA’s robust dataset. With an expanded reach, and combined efforts in researching, synthesizing, publishing, and promoting insights, the partnership is committed to advancing the product marketing industry's collective knowledge - a great example is the Leadership Briefing Program coming to Austin, NYC, San Francisco, and London in 2024. After presenting in both Austin...
Apr 08, 2024•26 min•Season 1Ep. 37
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Jay Roxe, a veteran marketing leader and the former CMO at several influential tech companies including HYPR and BitSight. They discuss his engineering past and what that taught him now as a marketing leader, why CMOs - much like product marketers, must master storytelling, why simplifying is multiplying, the ins and outs of cybersecurity and AI’s impact, how to be a people-first manager, and much more. Enjoy!
Mar 25, 2024•54 min•Season 1Ep. 36
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Jason Smith, the visionary CEO and Co-Founder of Klue. They discuss building bootstrapped businesses vs VC-backed, the risks associated with starting a company, why hiring is a make-it-or-break-it, the downside of corporate decision-making processes, the pros and cons of building in Canada vs the U.S., how often the company vision should evolve, and implementing a community-led growth model, and much more. Enjoy!
Mar 11, 2024•55 min•Season 1Ep. 35
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Michael Applebaum, the Vice President of Product Marketing at Indigo Ag and formerly of Tenable, Nexthink, IBM Security, and Opower. They discuss climate and agriculture technology trends and how to get into mission-driven companies, how the product marketing discipline has evolved over two decades, how pre-sales and sales ops can teach you to be a better product marketer, tips on how to become a better more effective leader, and much more. ...
Feb 26, 2024•1 hr•Season 1Ep. 34
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Janine Gianfredi, the Chief Marketing Officer at Transcarent and the former Chief Marketing Officer at the United States Digital Service under the Obama Administration. They discuss the healthcare industry and why and how it needs to be simplified, the differences between making decisions at a startup vs an enterprise, lessons from working within Google's innovation unit, X, what it’s like getting recruited by the White House and serving as ...
Feb 12, 2024•53 min•Season 1Ep. 33
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Tony Yang, the Growth Advisor to portfolio companies at Mucker Capital and MuckerLab, and the CEO & Co-founder of RevOptica. They discuss how early-stage companies need to think about growth, the most common mistakes startups make, product-centric messaging vs outcome-based messaging, the difference between demand creation and demand capture, and much more. Enjoy!
Jan 29, 2024•53 min•Season 1Ep. 32
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon sits down to make 2024 predictions alongside Jason Oakley (Founder of Productive PMM) and Derek Osgood (Co-founder and CEO of Ignition). Looking into 2024, they make predictions such as the continued convergence of product management and product marketing roles, B2B influencers now securing media budgets, AI creating a wider gap between average and great product marketers, a pivoted emphasis on retention and upsells, and a whole lot more. Enjoy!
Jan 15, 2024•54 min•Season 1Ep. 31
On this episode of Embracing Erosion, Devon chats with Ian Cairns, the co-founder and CEO of Freeplay and former product leader at Firstbase and Twitter. They discuss the power of conducting interviews before building a product, how LLMs will change how products are built and tested, the evolution of the AI ecosystem, practical fundraising tips and why there is such as stark difference raising for an AI company vs everything else, why remote work doesn’t necessarily mean an asynchronous culture,...
Jan 01, 2024•55 min•Season 1Ep. 30
