We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land. We're recording on today.
When I had a screaming baby, a couple of glasses of wine, not every night, but most night. My God, did it help because it just dulled everything and it made me feel like I could cope with things a.
Little bit more. And I'm not going to apologize for that. It might not be healthy, but you.
Know what, You sometimes just have to find what works for you, and that wasn't hurting anyone.
Hello, and welcome back to Eat, Sleep, Shit Repeat, a oddly unhinged podcast all about the manness that is motherhood and everything in between.
I'm Kiri Cells, I'm Kelly mccaren and I'm not driving today.
I am hap Onbord shoo Choo is driving.
I'm in BALI. Who oh you're in BALI Yes, dadda, I'm.
In a little cockta. While Luke runs around, he just goes to key, I'm going to be chasing Anywow.
Kelly's drinking And I looked at Kelly and she was like yeah.
I was like, yes i am, because I've paid for the trip, so yes I will. Anyway, In case you missed it last week, we wrote a pretty damning letter to pregnancy with all of our complaints about the process.
I'm actually feeling quite good.
It was very therapeutic. I love a good old fashioned complaint.
It was lovely just to get it off the chest.
Speaking of releasing things, how is the poos going?
What a bloody segue. Well, I'm happy to report that the bars are doing much better. Huge stout out to all the stool softeners and the you know, the liquid laxatives. I've been drinking for keeping this preger girl regular.
Shout out to movicoles. Do you want to sponsor us?
Yeah, omniolance, omnil.
Any of the sees or.
The lusis will take diapers, will take it all. On the show today, mummy wine culture as it happens, it's not very cute and it actually hides a much darker problem. Today we're going to delve into the negatives that stem from this movement and how our relationship with alcohol has changed, or maybe not change. I'm unsure since having our kids. But first, you're up for peak and pit today, my love.
Oh okay, well listen, we can make it nice and quick.
Listen.
My pitch is not really my pit, but I'm making it my pit because I want help from the shit is. Oh it's about food. Ah, Yes, I'm not good with food. I don't care about food. I'm not good at well. I am good at cooking, but I'm not good at being organized, and like, i don't care about food and alas, my child's diet is just not good and I just need suggestions that are easy in things that he might actually eat, because I kid you, not the only thing
he's guaranteed to eat for dinner is sol sieges. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they're probably not that great for you.
Yeah, But to be honest, cal like Rue doesn't like her repertoire of what she actually eats isn't that big.
She's sushi. Your child eats sushi, But that's because.
It's rice and avocado. Like last night, I made these cheesy fritz which is so easy to make. Took me ten minutes to make them, and I put them out with some celery and some hummus, and then I put avocado and she ate the avocado and then demanded the rest of the avocado. And that's what she had for dinner. Oh. I think that we beat ourselves up too much about this. I just worry, I know, but realistically, think about like how basic your diet was until you discovered different things
that you actually like. Your taste budge changed. I don't think it's that big of an issue. Does he eat eggs? No, wheatbicks? No? Okay, those two things are quite important because they have all of the vitamins and nutrients that you need. So if you can just do more eggs and train him to eat some wheatbicks, that will round out the vitamins and stuff.
He used to eat wheatbags, He used to eat eggs, like he tricked me for so long, and now he's just the littlest fuss pot.
He wants crackers all the time. Yeah he wants.
So, I'm just trying to make you feel better.
He will have other cereal like, you know, different types of zeru, but then he mainly just seems to pick out the sultana's heaven forbid, I give him so sultanas though, oh yeah, yeah, you won't eat them then a game like fruits. He only really eats mandarins. He eats baked beans sometimes. Like it's just so frustrating. So any ideas of things that are actually going to be good for him would be wildly helpful. And he doesn't like anything mixed.
So I will always give him a little because you meant to expose them.
Apparently you're good at that.
So I will always serve him like at least a little portion of whatever we're having, and we usually do dinnally, so pasta, whatever it is, I will give a plain version to him, So just a few pasta pieces with some veggies or something. Yeah, he never touches it, but I'm always exposing him.
So that's the thing.
People will be like, oh, I just made this, and I'm like, no, no, he won't touch. He will not eat so many things.
Ninety percent of the things that I make for Rue that isn't like pasta or pasta, she won't eat either, Like I think my tip and also do the shit is listening is Babel or baby food Bible? I think the baby Food Bible now on Instagram. But they just did a recipe book. They're girls like our age. They've got one a recipe book.
That means I have to like make him things that he won't eat.
Yeah, I know, but it's showing you different ways to make healthy things.
You know what?
I mean, and some of them are really good. They have like burgers and fries that you could do, like it's not really healthy stuff, yeah yeah, yeah, but I find it really helpful. Like those cheesy frits I made that was literally five ingredients frozen peas, corn, some cottage cheese, one egg, and some like dried parsley and things like that. That's it. Mix it all together and then put them in to make fritters into the pan, fry them and
that was it so easy. Like there's little recipes like that and he might not eat it, but I hate them. I hate some of them.
I think, like I'm just so grateful he eats at other people's houses.
Like I was gonna ask you, does he eat daycare?
Oh my god, here's everything at daycare.
Okay, so this is the thing he's getting.
He's getting so much new trans those four days a week because he generally has like breakfast, morning tea, lunch, afternoon tea. Yeah, then he'll come home for dinner. And he also eats like at his cousin's houses, like when he goes to either Hunter or Evelyn and Wesy's house, he eats at least try things when they're eating. But yeah, it's just at home, and he's just so defiant, Like he gets his little ladder now and he'll push it around to the kitchen to try to get at things
that he wants. Also, how do you stop your kid going into the freezer?
It's so old.
I get so annoyed, shells out ice blocks and just starts eating them. Rull just eat ice. Oh and then her hands it gets stuck and then she rips it off and cries. They're so weird. They're little dummies. But it's interesting what you said, and I think all parents would have been like, oh, your kid does that too. They eat well at other people's houses, in different environments.
It is just where they feel safe.
Yeah, but when they're with you, they are pushing the limits all the time.
I'm going to see if i can just get an ice cream and just get a biscuit.
I think what I've started to do is feel comfortable with what I've offered you. Is what I've offered you, because I'd end up making three different things for her. So now I just offer everything she eats as much as she wants, and then I'll give her a yogurt pouch.
He also won'ted yogurt? What can you eat like a fruit thing?
Though he likes fruit, he loves he loves, like make the thing that you're making, offer it to him. You don't want it, Okay, cool, here's a pouch. That's it.
You know, you have your milk and you go to bed.
Yeah.
But like I never thought i'd be like, oh, why is this so annoying? But it's just so annoying. And I just don't like I'm so bad with food, so it's really hard for me to be like, no, you can't have chocolate because I have chocolate every day. And that's another thing I want to know about the language, because it's like you're not supposed to say good foods and bad foods? Are you meant to say treats? Because like, otherwise, how am I supposed to explain? I guess sometimes food,
but they don't understand the concept of sometimes. They don't have any concept of time.
It's just really.
Hard that I'm not really clued up on. Because Rue I try to give her trees and she doesn't want them. So that's just like not the path I've been down yet.
That is the most humble brag I've ever heard. I try to give her trees.
But remember the time I gave her a milky way and she just like handed it back to me.
She doesn't want it. It's annoying though, because.
Because you don't.
I like to take her to get ice cream that's so cute. I want to get a you know, she doesn't want a baby Chino Biscuits, like a yummy biscuit, darling piscotti. She goes crt.
So she's more the favory gal.
Maybe she's like really specific things. The only reason why I think she likes piscotti is because we get coffee every morning. She and Charlie go and get my coffee and bring it back to me. And the gorgeous guy who is like the father in law of Anna her owns a coffee shop. He gives her like a little two pack of piscotti every time. So she always up in the morning going coffee cookie, coffee cookie. And yeah,
so that's the one thing. But that's because she's been having it since she was like one and a half.
Yes, I mean, it's not a bad problem to have.
It isn't. But I do think that, like we're gonna have to know this anyway, so it's an interesting topic for an episode. We just need to get someone that knows how to talk to it's not boring. Well, sometimes things are boring, Curl, but it's our job to.
Make a caste. I guess, yeah, we can bring the interesting.
You know what Lenny does eat that is just so weird olives yuck, but.
Also very chic.
He picks them off my pizza and so I ended up just buying him a jar. Yeah yeah, yeah, and he literally just eats him out of the jar.
He loves them.
Yeah, it's good.
It's not good salts anything salty.
Yeah, but whatever. I just think, who cares, I'm so over it.
I might I know.
The long termercushions. Can we just look at the size of Lenny. Yes, he's growing.
He's so healthy.
He's like meeting milestones, like he's intelligent, Like he is none of.
This enough team. He's doing his drills, the drills.
I just want us to be less hard on our song because I to go through this like every you know, three months. I'm like, I'm the worst parent of the world because I cooked pasta for the fifty eighth time for her, and then.
I just see pasta I'd be thrilled.
And that's what I'm saying, is like, why do we.
Up over and we'd never beat anyone else up.
Yeah, there's seven days in a week, right, Four of them he's eating what he's given because there's no other option, and three of them you spice it up with whatever you've got.
And you know what, I have a friend who's nine year old is still requesting plain pasta with barbecue sprinkles every single night because he has such an aversion to so many foods.
So yeah, at least he's getting meat in him totally.
Something that Roue doesn't eat a lot of meat, Like I wish he ate more meat.
My peak is how happy he is. Oh my god, he is the happiest little boy. He does not stop giggling.
Yeah, not many people see because he is shy, but he is so cute. He literally does not stop laughing. He's very cheeky and naughty. Yeah, like loves to not listen to us and just run around without clothes on, wave his little bum in the air and do the
bum bum dance. But honestly, like we were up home recently and like he just did not stop laughing and running around and just having the best time, Like didn't winge that much, didn't have any milkdowns e. He's just the happiest little boy and it's just the best age.
I just I love it.
And I'm like, I don't want you to grow up. Everyone wants like older kids, and I'm like, I don't want older kids.
This is so fun.
Can pretty much understand what they're saying, Like you're communicating on it enough now to be he's like my bestie.
He wants to cuddle with me all the time, Like why would I want that to ever change? His little hand always wants to hold my hand, like he's so cute that he is so cute.
Before we get into today's deep dive, we just wanted to give a content warning. If alcohol is a problem for you or harming you or someone you know, please contact Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen for advice and support twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. Mummy wine culture so it stems from a growing reliance on alcohol to manage anxiety after having a child. And while the concept isn't new, I think back to the nineteen
fifties housewives who lived on vodka. It's certainly gained momentum and has been somewhat normalized with the invention of social media. According to the University of Sydney's Matilda Center in Australia, one in six mothers have reported drinking alcohol at risky levels in the first twelve months of their baby's life.
Anxiety and stress are the leading contributors to this behavior, particularly due to the pressures of raising a child whilst also maintaining work, household management, familial, social and romantic relationship. So the mental load what makes wine mum culture dangerous is normal drinking to cote with parenting has become and the messages that we are met with reinforcing drinking as
self care for mothers. So doctor Katrina Pryor, who is the lead researcher at Sydney University for the Healthy Mum Healthy bub Project, says the normalization of wine mum culture and related memes and slogans like Mummy Wine Time perpetuate the idea that drinking alcohol to cote with the challenges
of motherhood is not only acceptable but essential. And while alcohol may offer temporarily from uncertainties, overwhelm and stresses of early motherhood, ultimately relying on drinking in the longer term tends to exacerbate these feelings. She went on to say that the normalization and acceptance of drinking to cote with the worries of motherhood not only perpetuates harmful drinking habits, but also obscures the underlying issues of anxiety and stress
among new mothers. Na Khal, I've noticed a few think pieces on the subject pop up over the past few years, and the reaction is really interesting because there's a lot of don't come for our wine and leave the mums alone in response and.
Mummy wine culture. I hate it. I hate it.
I you are very much it though, yes, but I've always been it.
I've always been a party girl. Yeah.
So it's not like I became a mum and then I became like a mummy with her wine. And that's why I think I hate it so much. And you know me, I like try to pretend that I'm not a mum. Not it's not that I try to pretend that I'm not a mum.
But I just don't say that on our parenting pard.
But I try to not lean into anything that's too mummy.
You're trying to identity yes, Kelly.
As Kelly, and I am a mum, but I'm also other things. So I just hate the camaraderie that people try to like. I hate the five o'clock somewhere or like Mum's around just good open that Sharon.
Ey at five pm to get through the line.
I just hate it.
It is just so cringe and like, it's just it's such a bad stereotype and I just think we're so much better than that.
However, I also love getting pissed. Yeah you do.
Do you think since having Lenn, has your relationship with alcohol changed in any way for the better, for the worst, stayed the same, Listen.
I definitely think when he was younger, I used it a lot more than was necessarily healthy, more than what I do now. However, I do not regret that decision at all, and I would give the same advice to someone that was really struggling because it helped.
And you have had no issues with whole dependence or anything like that in the past.
And it's worth noting I don't have any problems with addiction. I don't have dependency issues, so I am coming from it from a different perspective than someone that maybe does have an addictive or a personality that can't sort of like stop when they're ahead or what up. But I will say that when I had a screaming baby, a couple of glasses of wine, not every night, but most nights, my God, did it help because it just dulled everything and it made me feel like I could cope with things a.
Little bit more.
And I'm not going to apologize for that. It might not be healthy, but you know what, you sometimes just have to find what works for you.
And that wasn't hurting anyone.
Yeah, I wasn't hurting my child because I was not drunk. I was still able to parent. Like I don't do things when I'm drunk. I don't go driving or shop or actually, sorry, I lie. The only thing I do is shop is shop online. Yes, by ridiculous things when I'm drunk, but it's not hurting anyone. So I'm never ever going to regret also or feel bad for giving that advice. When people say, what are some things that worked for you, I'm like caffeine in the morning, drinking at night, want a.
Few, one or two glasses, three glasses.
Like half a bottle is always my limited week.
A realm of moderate drinking. I think what you're saying is okay.
However, I've always definitely nudged it on the weekends when I'm with friends, and I have not stopped doing that. Since having Lenny, it's dialed back a lot more like it used to be, probably at least once a week, sometimes twice a week, that I would just go out and rip Sidney to shreds until four am and then come home and be sorry for myself. But now I still do it sometimes and I love it. I love
going out and having fun. I love I love the feeling of getting pissed, and I'm if that's problematic to say sorry, but I'm not going to apologize for it because it's how I feel.
I like the feel of alcohol. It helps me.
I mask a lot.
That's the issue, isn't it, though, And it helps me be free sexually. I have lots of issues. It's the only time that I am like freely able to have sex. Yes, maybe this is a big problem, but it's how I'm dealing with it and it's not hurting anyone, and I don't have a problem.
Look, I think that that is your progative. I don't think we can judge in anyway. I think the way in which you're doing it sounds like you've got to handle on it, right.
I think that the whole Mummy wine culture. If it's like, Okay, I'm getting to the end of the day, five o'clock is hitting and i cannot get through it, and I'm counting down the minutes to that particular hour, and then I'm smashing a whole bottle of wine and I'm feeling awful and it's affecting my work on ability to mother the next day. I think those are the things that you look at and think, Okay, that's a problem for sure.
I would say that I'm a little bit different to you just in how pre and post having a kid I definitely had like an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. I think I drank probably too much. Like I'm a smallish person and I would drink a lot and very quickly. I have got really bad mental health and I think that it made my anxiety and things much worse without me realizing how much worse it made.
And it was used to get anxiety.
Yeah, I still get it now. I still get anxiety now. But it went hand in hand with socializing for me. So there wasn't a world in which I had ever lived in that I couldn't really socialize without a drink. You know. It was kind of definitely the same element. I'd be like, what am I gonna do? Go to a dinner and not have a drink, That's so weird. I would always have a glass of wine. But I also really like enjoy wine. I love like finding really yummy bottles of wine. It was also something Charlie and
I bonded over. I'd love going to wine tastings. I'd love I really got into tequila. It's like my favorite liquor, and I really got into kind of like the different ones that are available. I love a mez car, like all of the stuff. Right, But after having Rue, my relationship really changed and really now I'm like, don't drink during the week at all. And then I'm like a one two drink max kind of gal.
I have not seen you pissed since well before Rue.
I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have been and not a full hand, like not all five fingers, the number of times I've been
drunk and how to hang over. It would have been my hens my wedding another wedding I went to, and maybe one New Year, so like four times I reckon, Wow, I just could not deal with the hangovers after and having the responsibility of a toddler, the anxiety, and it felt like I wasn't just dealing with like the anxiety that I had from whatever trauma and things I'm stressed
out about in my life pre baby. It was now all of the hang ups about parenting and mothering and all of that kind of stuff added on top of it. And for me, I was just like, I can't be a well functioning person feeling as shit as I do, So I mean, I'm not gonna lie. Like when we did Mother's Group when I was like on Matt leave, you know, we'd work all week with our babies and then Friday would like have after work drinks, like we were trying to do fun stuff that felt like normal life.
But like even then, because we were all breastfeeding or you know, we just didn't want we knew we'd have to get up in the middle of the night. We'd have like two drinks and we'd just drink them so slowly and then kind of go home buzz because we don't drink that often I'm not properly drunk, you know what I mean.
That's nice and it was good.
So I think that for me, becoming a parent didn't exacerbate my drinking, but it forced me to re examine it, if anything, and as a result really make a change that was positive for me. I have to acknowledge that, like my birth mum is definitely an alcoholic, and I think that I had really unhealthy examples of relationships with
drinking growing up just from her. I feel like because I was a bit lost when I was a bit younger, I kind of adopted that binge drinking culture that is very prevalent in Australian culture, and it kind of just just I think I started drinking in like grade ten.
Oh okay, so I.
Think average, but I drank a lot and I was always like blackout, Like because I was so little, I was like drinking and a lot and quickly and things like that. Yeah, it just really forced me, I think after I had rue to really think about my relationship with it. I don't think I was ever an alcoholic. I just think that I never learned how to drink alcohol in a responsible way. So I think that's kind of the difference, like having a baby forced me to
do that. Because you're breastfeeding, you're getting up like you have to think about, like what's the responsible amount of alcohol that I can drink in order to fully function, like as a responsible human being kind of thing. But where I feel like mummy wine culture becomes a little bit dangerous is that all of the stuff, all of the cringe stuff that you spoke about, like it's one o'clock or wait and go far bad No, But what's like at home that has said that.
I have said that too, like I will totally, but all of.
That stuff, it's a little bit like a joke, right, it's like half joke. What it is is for normal people who don't have an issue with alcohol, For normal mothers, let's speak about exactly what we're speaking about. For mothers that don't have an actual issue with alcohol, it's a little bit like a oh yeah, lol, I'm a mum blah blah blah.
But for you also, I need my wine.
Of course I need my wine. But for mothers who have issues with alcohol who go on to develop a dependency on alcohol after having kids, it normalizes it and it gives them a safe space to exist in with unhealthy drinking habits that they can do anywhere.
Because they think, I'm only drinking between five and nine pm.
Yeah, every mom does this, or it's so normal.
But they're finishing a bottle of wine at night and they're burning dinner or you know, they're just they're.
Not addressing the underlying anxiety and depression that maybe they have postpartum, how hard they're finding it, the cracks and their relationships that are forming.
That's a bit of a projecting then, because what makes you think that they are unhappy just because they're drinking every day? Some people just really like the feeling. Although are you saying that then that's not a problem if you just enjoy the feeling.
I think if you drink every day and you're fine, that's totally fine. But I think if you are addicted to it, it's a different thing.
Yes, okay.
And then I think that a lot of the studies are showing what was the stat that I said, It was one in six mothers have reported drinking alcohol at risky levels in the first twelve months of their baby's life.
Like what, honestly, though, wouldn't everyone that's been drunk in that twelve month say.
That no, because I think that they're going to ask more questions. I think that's probably like a broad summary of what the study found, but I think there are a lot of questions asked to determine, like what unhealthy drinking it means.
And how risky in what regard like is it risky that you just drank too much or risky that you weren't able to properly look after your kid, risky that you breastfed while drunk, Like there are I'm so confused what risky means.
Well, I didn't read the whole study, so I can't answer that. But the interesting part of this that we haven't spoken about, I think is identity. Yes, so most mums have worked all of their lives and probably had a really healthy social life. So much of the three
as a parenting is isolating, especially for the mothers. For some there as this biological pool to have kids as a woman, and then you get there and you're really lonely, and you start to yearn for freedom and the spontaneity of life and being carefree like you once were, and kids a little shit sometimes, and you might have a bad baby, you might have a good baby and still feel like you're doing a horrible job.
And they become a toddler and they throw things at.
You exactly, And then I think there's a lot of question like who am I without my career? Who am I without my friends? And often you don't have the answer, but you do have a way to take the edge off and feel good momentarily. So I think a lot of it is to do with the identity crisis that a lot of mothers go through, because you go from being high performing or just in an environment where you're doing a lot of things, and you know, you go to work each day and you do things like you
achieve things right. There might be little tasks or whatever. But a lot of parenting is like out fires and.
You don't get rewarded for putting out the fire.
And more you don't even think you're putting out the fires because to put out the fires, the house has been turned upside down, there's washing everywhere, there's vomit on the floor, one of your tits is hanging out like it doesn't feel like you're killing it. Yeah, even though you're keeping a little tiny human alive, which at the end of the day is the most important thing, but I think identity is like very crucial to the center
of that conversation. I read this really interesting article on Marie Claire n. Look it isn't the American version, so just take that into consideration.
Americans are like very intense, like they go to rehab about everything.
Generalization they do.
One of my.
Friends had an accident and was in hospital and he'd been drunk, but they immediately gave him pamphlets on rehab.
Well, they probably thought, if he's been an accident and he's drunk, he might have an issue with alcohol.
You kind of assume that from one. I reckon Americans just go to rehab.
I think you can. And if they're driving a vehicle, no.
No, no, not a vehicle, not a current cident like a fallover.
Accident, I think they're just doing their due diligence because what if they didn't give that to him and then he went and fell off a bridge drunk. Well, okay, he was in hospital two days ago and they didn't do anything. That would be the reading.
Me being like straightaway, what a gutilization. Americans just got to rehab for everything.
So this article was titled wine Didn't make Me a better moment. It was written by Kelly Manley, so she writes for me. Alcohol never delivered the benefits mummy wine culture promised, but motherhood's obsession with alcohol speaks to an uncomfortable reality. Being a woman in the United States has become almost unbearable.
Oh, for goodness sake, just listen to this.
It's interesting. From raising Ivy League caliber children, caring for aging parents, and achieving impossible standards of beauty and success, to the gender pay gap, lack of adequate paid parental leave, and social media which inundates us with everyone's perfect lives. Twenty four seven, women are buckling under the pressures of American womanhood and drinking to survive it. While I can acknowledge that it is a very bold thing to say and things like that, I do.
Undershouldn't diminish how she feels, but I do understand like being a woman today is a lot harder than it ever was.
We have so much access to so much information, all telling us all the things we're doing wrong all the time. It's very hard if you're not in a good place to see anything that you're doing right. And what's the best way to cope with that that is legal, yeah, and accepted because of this kind of wine culture, mummy wine culture that's been created to facilitate that for you.
And everything she's described with the mental load is so accurate exactly.
So I think that that is something like identity mental load. Not having any.
Help wine didn't make me a better mum. That was the headline. Have you never tried to play when you're drunk?
I get really sleepy.
So it does the honest, Oh my god, I become mister G on crack when I'm here.
I mean mister G in general.
That's what I was gonna say.
I'm mister G. Like literally, I'm so much fun when I'm a bit pissed.
You're fun sober with the kids. It gives me a bit of energy, a little bit of a buzz to get going.
Wine. In my mind, did the mummies drinking chardonnay, because that's.
The trope where it kind of I would love to every winery they're like, you will lack ours.
I won't. I will not.
I actually have a little bit partial to a shardenay these days. What it reminds, you know, what it reminds me of, though, is the early days.
Of COVID one hundred percent, where we'd all get pissed at home. That's when I started drinking at home. I never used to drink wine.
No one used to drink at home. I don't, like, it was not really a thing like then it was like what cocktail you're making tonight, and it's like you choose, Yeah, yeah, you do parties. And I think that I didn't delve into this, but like I can confidently assume these statistics coming out out of COVID. I bet you there was an uplift in alcoholics because it was normalized and it
was okay to be doing it right. Someone that was a somewhat closeted or functioning alcoholic was suddenly being encouraged to drink at home at all hours and all days of the week. So I think that that's another kind of example to consider. And I do remember this story that my girlfriend told me about her mother's group and they met on Fridays, which I was like, oh, that's risky.
You just said that you and your friends we went.
On Wednesdays to talk and catch up, and but you said, but then on Friday we wouldn't meet up for a drink. But this was the only kind of cat. Oh okay, so it was a Friday, and because it's a Friday, you know, lunch turns into a drink. And this mum would order she's breastfeitting. This mum would order like a cocktail and a wine, and she wouldn't stop for the whole time. And I think that she obviously felt comfortable enough in that space to be like double packed whatever what's it called.
So wait, she'd just have two drinks all afternoon.
No, no, no, she'd keep ordering, but she'd start by having two drinks in front of her and then she would not stop, and no one else was no. But I think because it was under the guise of mother's group and everyone's had a drink, that she felt comfortable enough to be drinking in a way that she needed to cope.
Right, Yeah, I don't know.
That sounds like a I mean, I can't project because I don't know her, but that sounds like an issue because it's not like, but that's the thing, right, we're the only one having multiple it maybe one extra, but other than that, you sort of read the room, right.
Yeah, And look, we don't want to judge, but I think it's a good story to share because it's like, if you feel comfortable enough in that situation where every other mum's breastfeeding, we know, like you know, some moms are tracking the alcohol and I didn't do that. I was like, I mean, I never drank enough when I was breastfeeding really to do that, And I didn't breastfeed
for long enough to be honest. But it's just interesting because she must have felt so comfortable in that setting to show that she was drinking in that way.
Did she get pissed?
Yeah, of course you got pissed, like if you're drinking that much, yeah, one hundred percent. But it's like, if you're drinking like that in a setting with other new mums and you feel comfortable like that, what are you drinking like behind closed doors?
I didn't even think about that, That's the thing.
So I think, like where you are, where you sit on the scale of it, you're fine because you're totally in control of your alcohol consumption, and to be honest, you don't actually drink that much. Like I will just say that with all your health stuff, you don't drink that.
Much anymore anymore.
Yeah, right, So I think that you're in a healthy and you've always had a somewhat healthy relationship with alcohol that you can keep getting pill on it.
Don't need it, oh don't. I definitely need it in some social sit.
You're seeking it. It's a hard it's a hard think. Like I think I probably did have a little bit of an issue with it, and that I didn't understand the amount of alcohol.
It was back that you said that you couldn't imagine going out for dinner and not having a wine.
I just thought that was normal, though I would never have considered going somewhere and not ordering a drink. It's not like I need.
Afterwards instead of a wine.
But see, we're kind of all sit at different ends of the scale. And I think talking about mummy wine culture, mummy wine culture is fine.
Its existing.
It's the environment it creates for people who have an unhealthy relationship or who develop a dependency on it to cope. Like the issue was, there isn't enough resources and support for mums in that first twelve months to three years.
Every single story I've read about you know, former alcoholics, Yeah, it'll be that they started sorry, I mean in the realm of mummy wine culture, that they started having that you know, a couple of glasses of wine a couple of times a week between those hours, and then you know, it was just so fine and it was such a thing.
And then it was like started.
Earlier and earlier, or it moved from wine to vodka, and then they were waking up in the morning not remembering the night before. So it's just like that further escalation. But it was still always okay because it was within that realm of the Mummy wine culture totally.
And if Mummy wine culture didn't exist and didn't provide that, you know, place in which it was acceptable, perhaps that person might not teeter into that. And you know, like, well, I think it's just thinking about the repercussions for things that don't have the support or maybe struggling in that moment.
But then let's not get started about football culture and men going home and hitting their wives.
Yep, so let's wrap up the episode on that note.
All Right, Key has a recommendation, and I think it's probably most people are going to hear.
Most people are going to be their own. Actually, have I got a recommendation? Have you watched The Real Lives of Mormon Wives or whatever it's called.
Oh, but I've heard it's so good. What's it on again, Disney?
It's on Disney. What's the name of it?
I get confused, people know what you mean. I love the moon, but there are a lot of rules that we have to follow. We would raised to be these housewives for the men, serving every desire. Have kids by the time you're twenty one or in my kids at sixteen.
Well, I'm like this worldly secret Lives of Mormons, that's the Secret Lives of woman wives. So basically, they shot the pilot a couple of years ago, and it's this group of women who are Mormons and they live in.
Utah, and they had TikTokers.
They had TikTokers, so they created mum talk. Basically, their whole thing is like they are super hot Mormon wives. Okay, yeah, let's start with the obvious, super hot, pretty wealthy, and they want to, like, I guess, rewrite what it means to be a modern day Mormon, and like it's not. They're not sitting at home churning butter, and they're not servants to their men. In varying degrees, they still ask I love.
That they're not doing that, but they're just sitting at home doing dances instead.
Yeah, exactly. So they started this mum top thing. They became becoming content creators and became really lucrative, millions and millions and millions of followers on TikTok and all of that kind of stuff.
And they were all young. Sorry that's another thing.
Well they're so wise. Yeah, they're like, you know, have got two or three kids, and they're in their late twenties, so really young or not even some of them are.
Like twenty five and they've got three kids.
Yeah. Nara Smith is twenty twenty one or twenty twenty two, I think.
And she's got three kids.
Yeah. She was like, I got pregnant at nineteen and I can't believe I'm turning or twenty three, and I'm just like, oh my god, sorry, I'm fully playing with my belly. But and I forgot that we were recording them get in their NICs creepy. So at the center of it, the mum who kind of started TikTok as Taylor. She's like kind of the lead.
That she's the one that there was controversy around because she had an affair or something, and she also made up ghosts or am I thinking of some one else.
I don't know about the ghost thing, but yes, you're right on the affair. So what ended up coming out is that she had had an affair, and she kind of addresses her followers about the affair, but.
Then decides, your husband looked like no, the child, the child looks like Stephan Salvatore. That I don't I don't know all of this and I don't even like watch this show.
I just know these mum talker is who you're talking about?
Well, that I don't know. But in the video that she addresses all of her fans about obviously her affair getting out, she says, yes, I did engage in an affair. However, my husband and I had been swinging with the other mum talks.
Sorry, that's so hot, Like they're all these HELLI they are so young and hot and they're just like out there fucking each other.
No, but they're not they're not doing like penetrative stuff. So it's like it's basically just like four play because I didn't want it to be considered cheating, so it's still within the realm of so what. They're just being a Mormon. It's really weird.
Muff diving, like, let's just and also.
Apparently the partner was always present, so it was kind of like.
A big.
Actual sex Anyways, you never really get to the bottom, I would be basically, she drops this massive bomb and then everyone's like, well, who were the other swingers in it? And everyone's like, no, I wouldn't share my husband, And you never really get to the bottom of like who was swinging with her?
But then she stopped being friends with heaps of them, well because they.
All turned on her because she was going out swingers. But then they bring her back in and that's kind of where it picks up, and she is not in a good place. She's kind of dating this new guy.
It's really left it.
Even though they brought up like I fully got divorced and stuff.
Even though she didn't cheat, it was concentral.
No, because what happened is that, like she then had an affair outside of the marriage and that's what ended it. So the swinging and everything was fully okay, but then she decided to step out of the marriage.
Can only you can only fox someone if I'm watching, if I'm oh, except we're not fucking.
We're poking little things. Giving a ricent okay, and yeah, it kind of picks up there. What's really funny about it is because they shot the pilot a year before, they all look pretty normal, and then when they come back for season two, like they've all had a slight go.
Up, kind of like selling Sunset.
Yes, exactly, exactly right, because when you're shooting a pilot, you haven't been signed, like you don't have anyway once you have.
A million dollars.
Yeah, and then once you're confirmed to.
Be on TV.
I mean one of the girl's husband's got like plugs and everyone's like this guy has like looked like five different people in the space of three episodes, and it's because they're kind of piecing everything together. But it's the whole question running through the season is will Mom Tucks survived this? Like, can Mom Tucks survive this? So, but it's really interesting just to see the different things, like a relationship emerges. One of the really strict moment because
there's varying degrees of Mormons within Mum Talk. Some of them are really strict as and they don't drink at all, but others are like Mormon two point zero, so they do get kind of loose and that creates a little bit of wine culture. They're part of mummy wine culture. That creates a little bit of tension. And the whole thing about Mumtalk is that they're together, they like build
each other up. Like some of the men are really controlling, and that triggers other women in the group who have had previous Mormon marriages where they were really controlled, and so you kind of get women who have come out the other end trying to help the women who are still in it. You have a woman that's recently gotten divorced and she's got two young kids and they only like stayed together for a year because she realized it was all for the wrong reasons. Like so it's really interesting.
It's so interesting to see like different religions, but it's.
Really interesting to see these women who I might add at all now supporting their husbands like they are the bread winners and their family.
Yeah they would be raking.
Yeah, And like one of the age gaps is crazy and like it's.
Just so now that she's making banks, she's like see you.
Yeah, exactly, except his gorgeous I would okay. And then there's like obviously a villain who just is like wants to be the main character and will do anything to like be little the other girls. There's a bit of like a rebellion.
It's just so is it juicy?
Interesting? I think you would it's hard because I know you don't like trashy, And it's not that these girls are trashy, but it's like they need jobs.
But it's but they do have.
Jobs because they are content creators. What are you gonna say about that they dance? No, but they do like product endorsements and things like that, similar to you and I.
Yeah, and you know what, I wouldn't watch you a reality TV show with us?
Okay, I'm not planned that interesting interesting, but not that it's not hard work. What is interesting about this? I think I love it.
You're like, well, what are you gonna say about content creators?
Kelly? Yeah, how are you gonna shout? Ask? But what I think is interesting about this is that you're seeing young women who are in a very traditionally men focused environment killing it but also finding themselves rebelling, fighting for theirs,
trying to like forge their own path within it. And that's what I think is interesting about it, because cool you don't think some of the girls have it in them, and then you see them and like all this stuff comes out and you realize even the most Mormon ones are fucking doing things that are frowned upon within the church as well. So but I really recommend it. It reminds me of early reality shows that weren't scripted, that people in it didn't know how to kind.
Of behave in front of the camera.
Yeah, and also didn't create storylines and didn't like, you know, panda to producers and things like this. It's really raw reality TV. I'm sure it will change the more. They've just been renewed for a second season, so I'm sure it will change as they kind of learned the game the reality TV. But this as like our first look
first season is very good. You're just like a fly in the wall, like, oh my god, and they just spill everything because they don't understand how reality TV works, and you're just like.
I don't know if you should be saying, ma'am, you should not said Honestly. I was watching Selling Sunset the latest season, and I thought to myself, I could not gone one of those reality TV shows because the producers would not be able to get me to do shit. There was this one part where this girl when she owns like this small little country town and she goes when she was doing a piece to camera, she goes
at the end of the sentence, yee hoh. And I thought to myself, the producer just asked you to do that, and you're dying of embarrassment that you did do it. But you did it because they asked you to do it. If they asked me to do that, I'd be like, absolutely not. Yeehol yourself. I'm going to embarrass myself enough on television or just in my life without you trying to poke me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All. The other thing about the Real Lives of Woman Wives is that there's like a joke on the Internet that the music producer on selling some st also got hired from Real Lives and Mormon Wives. You know how the music's really good on selling some set or on Mormon Wives. It's like the music that they use it just really amps up.
Like do they have the filter?
No, they don't have the filter?
If do you know what I'm talking about?
Likely irritate filter, because I know that they all have a filter. Fifteen year olds at watch that show wouldn't really that they have a filter.
They just think that that's what.
Women in their late thirties and forties look like. They have got the beauty filter on their camera. It's like the bolden and beautiful.
But you know what that is. Actually, it's kind of like a trademark of that type of production, you know what. Like Maide in Chelsea has that filter too. It's like a thing. Even like Maid and Bondai. The new one has the filter too. I didn't watch it, but I read a couple of things and it's got the filter on it as well, So I think it's like quite a They.
Made it made in Bondai show, Yeah, they did.
I haven't watched it. It could be good. I don't want to bash it, but I didn't watch it. None of the people that are on the show are actually from Bondai or interesting. I don't know. I haven't watched it. But yeah, Real Lives of Mormon Wives Season one is out now on Disney Plus.
That is a great recommendation.
It's just juicy.
Yes, Oh, actually have a quick quick recommendation. What is it?
It's just another book by the same author. Remember that book I told you about the Nightingale? Yeah, the one that I said was like the best book I wrote about.
The Jewish Orphan.
That was one storyline in it. It was about World War Two.
I read another one of her books called The Night Road. Oh my god, it was beautiful. It was so different. It was not like historical fiction or but it was heartbreaking. I was sobbing at different parts. But it was really beautiful, kind of like. It was definitely a holiday read. Anyway, I really enjoyed it, and I might even be writing another one of hers in Bali. No, I'm no, I'm not back from Bali nevermind. But thank you so much
for joining us today. Share the pot on your socials and let us know what you think and what you want to hear. You can tag us at Key, Reese, at Kelly, Underscore mccaren and at essr die Pod.
This episode of EAS Sleep Ship Repeat was produced by us Key and Kel, with audio production by the Lovely Madeline Joanna Body. We will see you next week. She is bye bye