We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land we're recording on today. That's your person who's not protected you.
I wasn't safe. I wasn't protected and that is the job of a parent.
Exactly exactly. Hello, shit is it's been a while. Welcome back to Eat, Sleep, Shit Repeat, The Wildly Unhingeed Podcast, all about the madness that is motherhood and everything in between.
I'm Key re Sell, I'm Kelly McCarran. Season five. There really is no rhyme or reason to any of our seasons. So it sounds so impressive like season five, but let's be honest. The first season was six episodes just to feel everything out, and then some of them have just been I honestly couldn't even tell you how many episodes there have been in each season. It's just generally when we have to take a break because of other things and we're like, re calibra, yeah season next season.
Everyone, we were like, we're up to episode sixteen.
I was like, oh, yeah, it's time for a little bit.
Generally, we want to do like four seasons a year, like terms sounds kind of to align with school holidays and et cetera. Et cetera.
And when we are reaching a stage where we do an episode about ghosts, then that's when we need to recalibrate.
Well, I could not believe how fast this year has gone. Honestly, I feel like we're on the tail end of it. And then I'm gonna have a baby pretty soon, I'll How crazy is that?
I had an exceptionally memorable unmemorable, I might say, New Year's And the weird thing is is that it actually just still feels really recent, Like I think, oh my goodness, news, that was so much fun, like the best New Years I've had in so long. Yeah, but oh my goodness, no, no, no, I'm closer to this New Years than last year. I know.
It's weird, isn't it. Well? On the show today, we're unpacking one of the juiciest parenthood hot topics. Should I put my kid on socials? How much is too much?
Being content creators? We're both also going to dish on the monetary benefits of including your kids, and do we ever feel bad they pay you?
How much?
But first he can pit bibbers and it is my town. Oh my goodness, you've been in Europe. Surely you've got lots of peaks and pits.
Yeah, but mine the next week.
Yeah, true, true, The entire episode is actually about your trip next week, so everyone can get excited about that. As always, we start off.
With our the German Gloom, the Doom and.
Gloom, and I actually need your help with my pitch because I'm still very unsure what to do. So I had sneaky suspicions that Lynn needed his adnoids out for sure, yes, and also I suspected tonsils because he's honestly, he's been on antibotics that many times. He always snotty and disgusting.
Yeah, I'm so surprised it took them that long to refer you.
Well, he did go on to an inte though. Originally, when Lenny was one, he had grommets put in, but because of his issues with his soft I guess and his reflux and everything as a baby, he had to get scoped and biopsies, so he had a gastrologist at the same time as the E and t in the surgery, so he was only under for the one procedure. So like it took a lot of admin to get that in the same hospital and everything. So I don't know if it was because they were already doing a couple
of things. But the E and T, who haven't gone back to for multiple reasons, never even looked in his throat or in his nose, which is wild to me because so many kids, especially little boys, need the full trifector exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Anyway, so I knew that both of his grammts had come out. That happened, and then within a few weeks of the grommets both coming out, he had such a hectic ear infection that, like both of these's were proper flooding with fluids. It was disgusting.
And his nose is something that most people have never witnessed. All kids get snotty. Yeah, but when I tell you that, Lenny, like when he sneezes, it lands in his lap. Sometimes there is that much snot it must be so uncomfortable. Exactly. I still suck his snot manually a lot, like a couple of times a week.
To help the poor he like, is he okay with you doing it?
I have to bribe him, But he can be bribed, probably because he knows that it does feel better, like it obviously hurts him, or he doesn't like it, but so took him to an E and t as best as she could. She had a good look around and she was like, adnoids definitely need to come out. So she would chuck some grommets in and then she was like, listen, the tonsils certainly are big, Like they're not so big
that some kids it's inhibiting. They're eating their speech, a lot of different things, so they're not big big, but they're definitely not on the small, safer side where they wouldn't touch them. So she was kind of like, yeah, we could do that as well. But the difference is is that with adnoids and gromets, he would have it done on like a Thursday, say, and he would be back at daycare on the Monday and he'd be fine.
But tols a tonsils like a proper in hospital, there's not a low chance of a rebleed and it's two weeks recovery. But then on like they don't get tonsilitis or any of that shit though after right, because I don't have tonsils, so it's like long still get sick. A lot of content creators I follow with little boys that have had it done. The kids are always still bloody sick, and I'm kind of like.
They're probably less severely sick than they would have been exactly.
Yeah, So I think I just need to weigh up the pros and cons, Like, do I just wait a couple more years to get the tonsils out when he's a little bit older so I can understand the concept of why he's getting it done.
Yeah, that's a really good point.
If he was a bit older, and I could be like, this is why I need you to take the medicine because it's going to help with your pain relief.
This and you get to get ice cream and you get to have milkshake.
And at the moment, of course, he understands a lot. But he's also two, even though he's huge, and I think a lot of people forget that when they look at him, that he actually is only two and a half.
Yeah, he's still a little boy.
So it would be really hard to try to explain different things to him.
Well, I think you know best. I think to me, the way you've just explained it, I think you.
Know I'm erring on the side. You can tell that I'm erring on the side of just adenoids.
And I think his age, you don't want them to be down and out for too long.
I can't really afford to take two weeks off as well. Like anyway, my peek, you're going to be so happy. Yeah, I booked a holiday.
I am so happy for you.
I do need to say that with all my winging, it's not like I haven't done anything over the past, Like I haven't been on holidays for over four and a half years, almost five years. But I've been on like girls' mini breaks and like little weekends away, which is still more than something else. So I do feel
a bit guilty whinging about these sorts of things. But the crazy thing is is that what I realized as well when I used to work in corporate but like five in a nine to five and I had a team Remember talking to the HR once because I was trying to sort out like some team members leave, and I said to the HR, I was like, oh, you're not going to be happy about how much leave this person has because then they're probably saving it all up to go away for a couple of months next year, right,
Like that's why you don't want people banking leave And she goes, no, no, She's like, we don't like people banking leave because there is a direct correlation between length between having a break, having a holiday, and then like your workload productivity declining, wow mistakes. The actual data behind why people need holidays when you work nine to five is crazy. Wow.
So it's like a strategy to kind of prevent burnout, yes, exactly.
Yeah, And I was thinking about that because then I thought, oh, my goodness, you silly billy. I'm probably just so burnt out at the moment that because I haven't had any break proper, even had a baby, I didn't have a break. So it's like, of course I'm so feeling so overwhelmed and burnt out.
By every definitely, And I feel like I don't know what kind of a person you are on a holiday. But my sight said that something to me before we went to Europe, and it was, hey, when you're on holiday, if you just go for a walk that day around where you are, that's cool. Like you don't have to be doing something every day.
Oh no, I'm perfectly good at like.
Actually rest and don't make it be like a busy holiday.
Like a good mix between busyness and also like one busy day, one chill day, one busy day to break it up like that. But listen me being me, I guarantee I'll have two days off socials and then I'll suddenly get like a birtht of Yeah, especially if Len's being super cute, which is funny given today. Yeah, I'm so excited, Like I've already messaged my energy healer and I'm trying to get in with her, and you know who knows what will happen after I visit her.
You've also already got the whole wardrobe for you, and you've got the suitcase too.
Did my travel spoon? I've got my cutely yellow suitcats is ready to go.
You're so prepaired. I'm just so glad you've done it.
You deserve it, so more about traveling next week.
You've just had a baby. You're completely in love. They're also still asleep, and you can't wait to share that little human you've just grown or have been patiently waiting for that they've arrived. You want to share their name. Wait, and that mummy's.
Doing great, Mum and bub doing well.
Mum and bub doing well. You might pop it in your family chat, your group chats direct to the besties, and then social media. I'm going to admit something a bit mean here.
He's not often mean, so this is.
But I have to be honest. Okay, I do get a little bit judgy wudgie with how soon people share their baby announcements.
They might have had it ready to go though it might be their partner.
I don't know.
I just I just don't know how anyone could be bothered.
And look, I do it in my head exclusively to myself, like only a bitch behind their back to me.
Obviously, you don't comment on someone's post going going a bit soon already on social media, huh.
But in my head I'm thinking, like, aren't you tied China?
Aren't you still being stitched?
Yeah? Aren't you trying to do a boob before they let you go home? That's kind of what I'm thinking. But I don't know what the appropriate time is, so I don't even like know what I'm judging that off, but I do feel some kind of way about it. Maybe three days i'd feel okay.
How often? How quickly did you share?
Oh like a week and a half.
I was so long, not so long, but I wasn't even ready to post when I did. But Luke said to me, can you please post something? Because he was getting so many dms from people. Then friends were messaging him saying, hey, I'm getting dms from people like and they didn't want to bother me with it, but they were also like, oh my goodness, why are you being so.
They can't really answer those people.
So I was also very weird about I think because of what I've been through, but I didn't want to talk to anyone. I didn't really want to. I get it, yeah, anyway, So it took me so long to share anything.
Which makes complete sense. And that's why I'm also like anyone that's had a bit of trauma.
Maybe that'll be such a good example of the difference. Like if you have a really great birth next time, you might post that day because you'll be like, gods have just slayed this whole birth thing.
That's actually true. Maybe I will, Maybe I will. Okay, So we've made it through me being an absolute Karen on your announcement post. It's me. I know I am the problem, so don't worry about that. But where at you from here? Cal we've taken slightly different routes when it comes to sharing. Len and Rual on socials. Can you talk me through how you felt about sharing len when you were pregnant or just like you know, your pregnancy,
I guess, versus now as a toddler. Have your feelings changed, you know, over the past two and a half three as years if we factor in being pregnant as well, and have you ever regretted sharing anything?
So the funny thing is is that I didn't share that much early in my pregnancy because I was so ill. So even after I sort of announced it, it wasn't like I was just always online sharing different things about my pregnancy because everything that was happening with my friend, I didn't want to gloat about being pregnant, and also I
was just so ill. When I look back, I definitely probably shared too much about some things, and I don't regret it because I do know how much it helped other women who then felt seen through maybe what they were feeling or what their baby was doing. On reflection, it's kind of like, oh, that information is now out
in the world and it does involve him. Yeah, just little things like I just would never want to hurt Lenny's feelings or make him think, oh, my goodness, my mom was so miserable when I was little, and I can try to explain it to him as much as possible. But if it was my mom that had shared like that and I saw it as a grown up even I would be like, oh.
Yeah, that's such a good point.
So and also just some things about he's like, I'm quite certain I shared medical information about different things that I probably, you know, that's very personal to him. It's not, I don't know. I don't feel like an t stuff is personal.
But other stuff, it was some stuff I know.
You know what, you know what one I'm talking about. So I'm pretty sure I spoke about that publicly and then it's like, hell, that's his, it's not any.
And it's not.
Yeah. So yeah, I do think that I probably just shared too much. But once that was just learning for me. And it's kind of funny because, well, I guess the older he gets, he's more of an individual person. So it's funny if you looked at my Instagram, Yeah, the first year that he was born, my grid is just like all us. Yeah. And then as he started daycare, if you look at my grid now, it looks like it have a kid.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, because I've removed him from so much of my content because there's so many different reasons, but one of the biggest ones is that he is now an individual person with his own life. It's not like we are just a pair that does every single thing together. Yeah, and I'm not going to share him all over the time because he doesn't like it. You know how people go, oh, my kid loves being part of it. I'm like, oh,
myst I don't really know what they're saying. Yes too, but even he doesn't actually love sometimes he does, and that's when I'll be like filming and having fun with him.
Yeah.
But if he is just like cranky because he doesn't like the phone or the camera, I just put it down. I'm not going to annoy it.
Yeah, there's a boundary there and it's clear, yeah, like he's uncomfortable or not into it or whatever.
And I've always been extremely private and safe about if I share a daycare photo, I analyze that photo. I don't even know why I bother because I analyze it for about ten minutes. To every single feature of anyone else or location, anything that could give anything away is blurred. I am so careful with never sharing our location of the suburb or area even that we live in. I don't ever location post when I'm out and about until later because there's weird o's Like I'm just very, very
very careful with location stuff. And it's just so funny because that's how I made one of my friends because she messaged me and she goes, hey, do you live in X my suburb? And I wrote back quite rude or not rude, but I was a bit like, how do you know that? What did I say? Like, because I just in my thought mind, even though I'm so careful, thought that i'd accidentally shared something. She was like, oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to sound
like a stalker. I live in ex suburb and I recognize this street, this street, this street type thing where just like tiny things you'd only know if you lived in that. You've lived in that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, and now we're really good friends and we catch up all the time because our kids are the exact same age. So that was really good. But it's just, yeah, I'm so careful, so you're aware.
I think.
I mean, I'm not perfect. I've definitely I'm learning as I go along, but I try my best without pretending he doesn't exist or keeping him completely off my socials because as much I completely respect what anyone else wants to do, but he's just too I share my life online. That is a part of I guess my content that I'm always sharing my life and he's a huge part of my life.
Yeah.
And he's just such a joyful, hilarious little thing. I want to share him. Yeah, not everything about him, but yeah, some stuff I love sharing. Yeah, So I guess that's where I'm at. What about you, because then we can get into the monetary side of content creation with babies, which I know is when people start getting real angry and opinionated.
Yeah, I think I was fairly open during pregnancy.
I would not tell you. I don't remember.
I think I was like, i'd what, no why. I just had a good pregnant I'm having more trying pregnancy.
I am more text book if you will.
Yeah, there you go, there you go. But I always felt, even pregnant, I felt really strongly about keeping them off socials for two main reasons. One is one I think that like everyone can relate to, which is like the dark web and people who are you know, the wrong types of people getting hold of that content. And then the other one is actually because of my birth mum, my Instagram is not private, so anyone can look at it.
I know for a fact that she does listen to the podcasts because I've had an email recently about my critique of her parenting if you will so, and that confirmed my thoughts, Like I thought, of course, she probably because she can't get access to me. I'm assuming she would or someone would at least send it to her. So you're curious. So I always people up on Instagram, Like, I'm not surprised if she looked me up. But that's
the thing. It's like, I really want to protect rue and I don't want someone who's been really hurtful to me and really toxic to me to really have access to her in that way or form an opinion about her or talk to me about her in any way, because she isn't a part of that life. So that is one of the biggest reasons behind it.
And my God, if you ever get famous, your mom is gonna like tell all the book. She will megan you you know how the dad came out with all these stupid stories.
That will be your mom yeah, I'm like waiting for it to happen. In the newborn phase, I really.
Didn't say publicity is good, publicity, go for gold, get eased to the pod.
Honestly, I really didn't share that much in the newborn phase because I feel like I really loved it. And I know we hate this term, but it's the only term to it. Like I loved that bubble that.
I am the trimestic key.
Yeah, I really enjoyed that time, and I loved the slowness of it. I loved connecting with this little baby that I had dreamed about, you know, for nine months. But I think it was also millennial burnout. It was like the first time where I could completely switch off from a job. Because every vacation throughout my professional career, or most of them, I've had to work on. So it was not that having a baby is a vacation, but I completely switched off and it.
Didn't might say a lot about how beautiful your experience was as well.
Yeah, and I really do think it was really indicative of that. I mean, because I said I didn't even watch TVs, I didn't listen to podcasts, like I just was looked went on so many walks, Like that's what I made was really deep nature. That's when I've made those really deep connections with my mother's group friends and like, I really he gave my man to.
That rocking in a corner.
I know, I'm so sorry that that happened. And then as I kind of found my rhythm, I started posting a little bit. I would post like baby things I loved and I shared, like our solids journey, but I was very like, I just would put something over her face.
On her head.
Yeah, I just put like a little emoji or something on her face or some sonnies or whatever.
But Charlie never did. So I loved having access to me through Charlie's page.
And he's so rogue on social All.
The stuff he shares about her is so cute.
You can share that he's got a private account he totally dons he does, which is fine. He can totally do it. And then that's kind of evolved and now I show glimpses of her and then when I feel comfortable or in that moment, I'm happy to like post it. But it's rare for me really to post her face
and a lot of stuff. And I guess I mean, maybe I'm just projecting on you, but you also probably at this point don't want to make it too weird by just never ever sharing her at all, and then every now and then if it's spott and being like here she is exactly, and that's that thing that comes into it, right. Like the other thing I wanted to say is like I don't actually police it on other people's socials.
Oh see, I just have always covered her face well before like you started sharing, but simply out of respect.
And I think a lot of people have followed that kind of rule of funb like no one really posts like front on a photos of her or anything like that. They have kind of picked up on like that's what I share, so that's what they do. But I never wanted to police it because I just felt like most of my friends don't have like a public profile that would be bad, like all the people that follow them.
Well, Lucy and I would, well, I guess we're two of your closest friends.
But exactly so you guys kind of know that tray of us.
Are close enough to you to know that we just wouldn't be like, yeah, he's.
Rue, here's here's rue. But recently though, due to the nature of our jobs, we obviously get approached to do campaigns, and this is like where the expectation is that room might feature and most people that follow me in contact me to do brand stuff understand that I don't show heaps of her, right, but I did have one brand be like her face has to be in it, and I was like, no, like, I'm not letting you dictate what I'm going to do, Like if I shoot stuff
because you want to use my baby to sell something, like I shouldn't be. I get what you're saying, but you like, if it's a lifestyle, like she's part of my life, but not, oh, your baby's face needs to be in it. Yeah, I felt icky about that. So the thing is is like I'll shoot spawn that she's in, Like I don't do much spawn, so it isn't that big of a deal all the time. But when you know it is like a baby brand or maybe it's something like Father's Day content and.
Stuff for the pod with brands for babies like Bonds, Yeah, grow to like that's organic, almost organic.
And also I have full control over it, so I'm fine with like a couple of seconds of her face being in it. I feel like I'm okay with that, and I always show it to Charlie. That's kind of my thing. I'm like, hey, are you okay with this? He's like, she's going to be a star, and I'm like, that's not the right answer. I'm not trying to make his child star here. But the other thing about it, right is.
It's really lucrative and like so lucrative, and that's what well, we started laughing when we thought about this episode because I was laughing at Key, Key will get into it more. But to be at the start like no, no, my kid's not on social media? What how much you want to pay me?
How much? And I'm like, well, fuck, that's a lot. It is so if it's going to help set your kid up, it's kind of like very hard.
But we're going to get more into that. I'll just let you finish.
So recently, I had an opportunity to work with a brand that we use in our everyday lives all the time. My kids sat product.
He and Rue beat lennon Kel out of the job.
Books wonder if.
There was anyone else up for it, probably probably, but we got it.
We got it. It was a big consideration just because of the difference in the content.
That it was. It was a two day shoot with a crew.
I had them kind of send me everything in advance and like really detailed with any kind of shoot of that caliber. There's a nurse on set, which I thought was really cool, like just that there's someone there who is a kid's nurse but also advocates for you, so if they start to think, like your kid's a little bit tired, they'll be like, hey, guys, we need to happen.
Didn't tell me that part.
That's so Yeah, it was actually awesome. So we liked the idea. We decided to go through with it, and I thought, okay, this, let me just do this as like a little test to see.
How comfortable you felt.
Comfortable I felt. The other thing was it was being used on Instagram, only not on TikTok, and I have different feelings about different platforms.
Can I explain why, because I, yeah, I had the exact same. What a lot of people don't really is the way that the algorithm works on TikTok and on Instagram, so on TikTok, the way that people use TikTok is they are just on there for you page, and all this different content based on their preferences is targeted towards them. So if you like little children, yeah, you just get little children on your page. Yeah, Whereas on Instagram the algorithm is way harder, which is so good for parents.
It is because it's hard for creeps to It's not hard, but it's a lot harder for creeps to access you and your content because your contents mainly primarily only going to people that follow you.
Yeah, exactly, and with like paid targeted advertising, that is also being structured to target one type of consumer as well, whereas on TikTok it just goes out into it everyone. So so ultimately we said yes, and I enjoyed the process. The content turned out so cute, like, and it went live. All of our friends and family thought it was like so cute. Charlie loved it, But I don't know if I would do it again. And it's only because, really, only because I did feel like our husbands.
Live in very different financial brackets, because I couldn't say no.
Well, my thing was is I didn't enjoy being a stage mum, okay, yeah, that's fair. I didn't enjoy that part of it. So the content going live. See, and this is the other things Like when we're shooting content ourselves, we're in charge of like that's what we do all the time. But when you're adding another person, like I'm almost the middleman to rue in a way, you know, and everyone's so friendly. Like for context, this is like a campaign that I.
Got through people that used to work people that I used to.
Work with, So I knew everyone on set. Everyone was lovely, from the makeup artist to everyone there, the sound guy, so lovely, so understanding. It wasn't about anything that happened specifically to them. It was more just like I didn't like making her perform yep fair and so I totally get that.
Actually she like a little monkey.
Yeah, I just felt like, oh, dance, monkey dance. Yeah, I just didn't feel like I wanted to have that relationship with her.
The funny thing is, I'm making lots of jokes about it, but I've always said no to Lenny centric campaigns. Yeah, and I'm okay with him being in the background or like a secondary role in some content, but I always need to be the primary Yeah, because yeah, I'm exactly, I don't want to make him do anything. Yeah, and it's so weird when I do. Yeah, Like sometimes I'll ask him this sounds so random. But a Lamington ad at the start of.
The year, I remember that.
The behind the scenes footage is actually so funny of me saying, come on, Lenny, come on heavy, walk into Nanny's room, give it the Lamington. The thing is that everything's very organic because it's like we do go and visit Nanny and they take her flowers and we love taking her Lamington's because she used to always make lamington So that was where the concept came from. But then me being like, oh, kids, you did such a good job.
I just guess I try to make it fun. And then another time I have chat to make them do something is when we did the kinder Easter hunts. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, but I just made okay, we're practicing for Easter type thing and I did give them eggs, so they kind of had a lot of fun. But you don't want to be like, okay, now do this, no, no, no, no, We've got to do that again.
It just yeah, it's how many takes, what do you do? And stuff like that. So I really love working with office works like I work with them a lot, and it's so cool because the campaigns that they do is it's all about arts and crafts, so stuff that they're so fun Like, yeah, it ends up being an activity that ruined I do the day and I just set up the tripod and film, like it's so easy because.
Then it's you're not asking to do things. You've just filming while you're doing things that you normally would do anyway exactly.
And that's the difference and a voice I don't do exactly. I don't want to do like acting stuff with her. I'm so happy to do just like lifestyle, like our life things do anyway, because that's what we do. We always do. Like an activity. We did this like unicorn thing that was actually so sick at instrom Office works O Lincoln in the show notes. It comes deconstructed and it's like pieces of cardboard and it's like a face
or like a wing anyway you draw on. It comes with crayons and stickers and you do all the stuff and then you assemble it and they put it over themselves and so her little head.
Oh my godness, and her arms.
Are out and she's just like immunicle and it's actually so fun. That is so cute, but like stuff like that, yeah, is awesome because we do that anyway, and just stuff that they use, like Lenny and I did Lego Jublow last year, which I frosted.
So I said to them. I was like, you guys don't even need to pay me, just send to me the product and we stoked.
It's so expensive though, so I was like, sick, I always get the ten dollar boxes.
I just get it on special because I've I love playing with duplo myself. And then one final thing on the whole spawn aspect of it is to acknowledge that what we're doing is we're not making money off our children for us. I mean maybe some people are, so what can I both do any money that our kids make on social media? So say they feature heavily in a campaign, I put that money in an account for him. Yeah, and you know, one day, if he's like, fuck you, Mump.
You put me on social media and talked about my problem on your podcast when I was little, I'll be like, here's your therapy paid for for the next twenty years. Hopefully, though I can be like, go to Europe free year, or this is going to buy you your first car or send you to UNI or something. Maybe I'm being ambitious with how much I think that he could earn.
The hard thing is, though, which is another consideration of my content, because you're always trying to beat the algorithm. You're always trying to fig out what type of content does the best on you.
And people love kids, people love. That sounds creepy, but people, I guess really just the funny thing is I don't really like parent content.
Well I do, though, this is the thing, like my best content, So I was asked to like pull out, like what content does the best on your page? Always rue anything that has ruined.
She's so cute, I get it, but I'm just like, well, if I was in your friends though, I wouldn't like that sort of That's what I don't get. I think I'm just not a very internal person. I don't care about seeing kids all.
But I don't think that's true because you and I both love Mummy slipping House. I like her though not her kids, but I think that's the thing she has, like this really healthy balance because she shares. She's so whole, funny, but literally her entire life, she's a proper logger. Yeah she really is. But there's just glimpses of her kids.
And she doesn't monetize them or or she does sometimes I guess, but she doesn't exploit them in any way. Nothing feels exploitative and if she's having.
Like a conversation with them, the camera will just be filming her, so like you know what I mean, like they might be well no, because I was analyzing why do I really like her content? And I like make Root sit down after daycare and like if there's new videos, I'm like, let's watch a mommy slipping house because she I mean she does, she'll watch anything on a device. But yeah, I just really love her content and I was trying to figure out the why, like why does
this resonate with me so much? And it's because she doesn't really monetize it often, if at all. I'm always like, how does she make money? I don't like, what's keeping it going? I think she honestly gets like maybe free trips and stuff like that.
She does, and also people that aren't in Australia making a lot of money top.
Thing and also YouTube because she has puts a lot of on you so they've been making a fair bit that is kind of I'm like, if I could do that, Like, that's what I'd want to be.
It's so time consuming though.
But that's the thing. I don't know how she does it and stays such a present mum, because the guilt that I feel sometimes if we have to shoot anything about the time it takes away just from us.
She probably makes everything look so like chaotic and easy, but when the kids go to bed, she's probably editing for hours. Exactly where's you and I are watching blow Deck?
Yeah, sorry about that shout out to blow Deck.
My thing with content as well is that And I think you feel the same way that I don't want it to be my entire stick, even though it does so well. Like Mummy parenting, content is honestly a gold mine. People froth it. Yeah, there's so many brands and sponsors that want to work with you, like the opportunities blow up. That's why mummy influences are so huge.
Your audience is continuously growing because women are coming into child bearing years.
All the time. Think about the last couple of years, like actually the last three years. Two out of the three TikTok Creators of the Year it's mum content. Yeah, that's such people froth it. But I have this thing whereas I'm like, I'm not just a mom, I'm so interesting, I've got all of these other things. I'm just not willing to dive completely into the mummy. Maybe if I'd more than one kid, I would maybe because I don't have time to do other things.
Yeah, I guess you kind of just submit to it. I am the same though, like I think for me, I want to be able to get my own achievements off me.
And exactly not use my kid to get big.
It's hard though, because they're so cute.
They are so cute, and that's not a dis to anyone that does. It's just like, like we really love lots of different people's content. It's just like I don't want to use land to sell everything or to be why people want to watch my content.
And it is I get it. It is a really lucrative industry. But that's I think, because it is so lucrative, it can very easily veer into child exploitation.
What a segue?
What a segue? And it's something that has existed long before the Internet. I think about like Brookshields, Michael Jackson Child stars Macaulay Cochlin.
Any one that wasn't it isn't. How fucked Yeah exactly. But with the invention of the Internet, it's.
Just really added this level of infamy to these really normal people that don't really have the tools to navigate it. Like a lot of them, I would say, for a large amount of time, might not have a business manager kind of guiding them without like how to invest their money for their kids, to set them up for the future. And then there's just really shit parents. But I think a lot about the Wren Eleanor controversy.
Do I ever one of the most disgusting TikTok accounts I have ever seen. It's called Wren Eleanor. If the little girl was doing something innocent, not a lot of sieves.
If the little girl was doing something that could be seen as sexualized, it was shocking. So they've got seventeen million followers on tiktop. The handle is they say them, but it's a mum name. It's the mum, but it's a baby's name.
That's weird. That's something I get judging when people have like an account under their kid's name, that's weird. I think it's weird too. You can't control your kids, It's weird.
It's very strange. So in July of this year, the videos all on the TikTok page went private, and this was following a bunch of backlash from TikTokers. There's like this big movement on TikTok from like TikTok mums basically going after TikTok mum creators who are exploiting their.
Kids, which hands down, I forget what her name is, Jacqueline or oh yeah, Jacqueline Wren's mother. Yeah, like, I'm not even a little bit afraid to say, one hundred percent exploiting her child. She knew exactly what she was doing, and it was disgusting, and I genuinely think people like that. It actually just makes me so angry. You are literally basically one step away from producing child pornography. Yeah, you need to go to jail. And that's what it was like, back to jail.
These TikTok moms who were kind of developing this movement to really protect these children that were being exploited, realized that the videos were really inappropriate. And then they also noticed that when you went to go and search for Wren's name that search terms like rn eleanor eating pickle slash hot dog. These videos exist.
That's disgusting. And look at the saves on that as well, exactly.
And then she would be in really revealing clothing for a toddler. We're ripped jeans, crop tops, and a lot of the comments are like this feels.
Weirdo the child would be in the bath exactly. The thing is as well, is that if you don't know, like when everyone was a baby, I posted a video of her in the bath with me, I had Swimmerson. I didn't even.
Think no, but you don't think because and I do want to give a lot of people the benefit of the doubt that you don't.
Think, well, you just don't realize. There are so many creeps.
And that's the thing. But what happens is, like I genuinely believe when Jacqueline probably started posting about Wren, it was exactly so so innocent. But what happened is that she got a following, and then.
She started to make a lot of money, continues.
To host and it just somewhere along the way things just get really dicey.
And I though that she probably just thought she knew exactly what was happening, but she was like out of sight, out of mind. It's happening on the internet somewhere. It could be happening anyway. People do not understand how much money content creators can make on TikTok. She would be making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month.
Yeah, one video that goes viral on TikTok can like really set you up financially, financially, Like it's insane. They've got this kind of only.
If you're in the Creative fund already, Yeah, and.
The creative fund, but like it's.
I would make such an effort on TikTok if we had the creative fund. I think it's comucking mint.
I think it is coming. When I kind of got into this around eleanor contrast, it gets so bad.
Oh, it's terrible. The mum is aware, by the way, before anyone thinks that I'm a horrible person for the things that I've said, there is proof of her daughter on the dark web. Yeah, and she doesn't take the videos down or well they are all private now.
Sorry, she's gone completely private now.
Probably because she got threatened to be put in jail.
When I was looking at this I because so many people on TikTok have done these like explaining the rent Alanor controversy. And I found this video from a creator whose mum was really obsessed with video taping her when she was little. And she said, how YouTube or the internet existed when she was little, she would have been rent Ellanoryeah and she would be filmed doing really innocent things and at Heado's take. And that's what she said,
is like, that's what predators wants. They love the innocence of children. It doesn't even have to be anything. It's just doing normal things.
Are that people are watching your children and doing disgusting things.
Protect your kids. And she asked the question. She said, like after obviously finding the courage to tell her truth after thirty years, both of her parents are now deceased, she said, what would ren Eleanor's truth sound like in twenty years?
You know that is so powerful. If I knew that my mum had pimped me out, knowing that I was being exploited, knowing that heads were doing things to my imagery.
That's your person who's not protected you.
I wasn't safe. I wasn't protected and that is the job of a parent.
Exactly exactly.
My sister is so innocent, kind of like me. I guess a few years ago and at the start of the year, I was away for a weekend and I opened TikTok, and obviously my sister's a contact, so if something she posts, it comes up first. And it was of puff eating a banana. You know, you go to Woolli's and yeah, yeah, and you get the free banana anyway, and it's the cute Like I understood why she pressed it.
It's the cutest video. And it was like to the song of like this banana song and he's sitting there with these big virtualbly cheeks like eating this banana, so happy. And then I'm like messaging her, I'm like, take this video down, take this video down. And then I had to explain to her, which I then hated having to do, to explain to her why she had to.
Because then you like ruined that innocence.
I ruined that innocence of her because she then deleted everything from TikTok because she just got so upset by the thought like I ruined that innocence for her. I had to explain how sick some people are, so I had to explain to her how some people's minds were, like, I hate that.
I hate that because there is such sick people in the world we even have to think like that.
It's just it's awful, it really is.
I really hope we've given you some food for thought on some of those extreme cases. But we don't want to be all dooming gloom. We might get into some research around how we can navigate sharing our kids responsibly and respectfully. I found a really balanced article on NPR titled why you should think twice before posting that cute photo of your kid online, and I'm going to link the full article in the show notes. In it, they interviewed this chick. This chick, she's actually a faculty member
at Harvard Man. She specializes in children, family law, and technology, Leah Plunkett. She's also an author of Sharenthood, Why we
should think before we talk about our kids online. So sharenthood kind of came from this term that has popped up in recent years called sharenting, which is obviously blending the two words sharing and parenting together, but it was coined to describe the practice of parents publicizing a large amount of potentially sensitive content about their often underage children on Internet platforms. They even had people who were like sharingters,
who were like obsessed with sharing their kids online. And it's like something that people get diagnosed with anyway, that's a whole other rabbit hole.
We could do like ten episodes it's in a role about this and still have something.
Insane, honestly. So, she noted that the data that we share about our kids can actually make them really good targets for identity theft. A birthday photo, for example, might reveal a kid's name, age, and date of birth, information that someone could no private iniation, no private information. I agree. She then also highlighted the importance of understanding that other people don't need to have information about the ins and
outs of your child's emotional and personal life. So it was a bit of a Q and A and I pulled out the most interesting answers. She was asked how do you model digital consent with your kids? She said, the conversation starts with very young kids. Explain what you're doing, why you're doing it, and where the image or video is going. You might say something like, hey, we're having a really great meal. We're using a recipe your grandfather sent us, I'm going to take a picture for him.
Everyone smiled for grandpa. Giving the context, it's the same kind of way that we're told to narrate our kids' life. So they start to understand, because they do understand. That's how they're learning language. Right. So if we say to them we're taking this photo for grandpa, they send us a recipe, they're gonna say, grandpa photo. I like Grandpa, I'm okay with this photo. She also said, you could ask your kid at a pretty young age, are you
okay with me taking a photo? Anyone not feeling up for it?
Like that's what I do with lend Yeah exactly, he says, not what sneakly take them of him?
Yeah? Have the bag said, I thought it was really interesting to ask someone like this this question. How do you avoid oversharing in the digital realm? And she said, since I started researching this topic, I adjusted my own
personal compass to be very minimalist. She never really posts the kids on social media if she does really similar to u Kel, she doesn't post anything that would identify them, doesn't use full names, doesn't celebrate their birthday on social media, and doesn't show them standing in front of their school or anything like that.
That is the one thing that I just can't deal with. How sorry, but stupid. Some people are huge public stupid.
It's just not realized.
No, if you're a public figure, it's your job to know. They literally do host their child in their school uniform with like the proper logo and everything.
I know, what are you doing?
You freak well?
And then they know their name, they know they know what school they go to, say, know it subway, But they also know what they like, what they dislike. This is why, like all so weird little things that you put together can really help someone to be able to build basically a profile on your kid. Yeah.
I guess all the informa I've put out there though, is just like to scare anyone off taking Lenny because they're like that child hates everything and he likes to have a big complaint. He really they would give him back within an hour, thank.
God though, Like that's good.
I'm just raped. She would rave with them for days, he would, and then she'd be like, oh mom, dad forgot about them?
Who cares about them? What questions should we as parents ask ourselves before we hit post. Are you posting a picture of your child in any state of undress? If you are, please don't post it.
But like, I don't understand why people put like smiley face emojis over little kids nipples, Like, why aren't they just nipples?
Instagram makes you take the content down if there's any.
Nipples, but they don't with men.
I know this is why everyone's always like free the nipple.
Wait, so women and kids can't get their nipples out only men.
Are you sharing your child's location for name of data birth? If you are, think about whether that level of detail is necessary for your post. This one I thought was really good. If your parents shared a similar post about you at this age, how would you have felt about it. If the answer is that it would have really bothered you, take another minute to think about what you need from this post. So here's the bit that I really liked.
What advice do you have for parents who often share photos and videos of their children and their lives on social media? Is it too late for them? She was so normal and nice in this response. I really appreciated it. I had the same reaction when I started researching all of this, And I'm here to tell you take a deep breath, don't panic. If you want to change, go back over your social media posts and take down what you're not feeling so sure about. Then makes private. Please
don't be hard on yourselves. Since the dawn of time, parents have been making the best choices they can at any given moment and then later being like, maybe I'll do that differently going forward. I think that the good thing about having this conversation is that it's just another thing that we all need to kind of think about once in a while, have a conversation about maybe look at our socials and see how much we're posting. Maybe even see on stories, who's looking at your stories.
Of your kids? Many things that you if you post something of your kid, make sure it doesn't have heaps of saves, because why would someone save that? Exactly weird.
Also, there is that like close friends option, which is I think is such a good option.
Like I use that a lot.
I use that a lot whenever I post it because I use it for.
Really basically nudes of me.
But that is a really good feature too, Like if you you know someone stuff that you're not as worried about sharing, yeah, you can share it to people that you know it's going to see it. Because I even think about, like all the people on Facebook that I know, I don't know hardly any of them because it's I've been on that fucking platform for over a decade now. So I think sometimes you forget, even though you might only have like a smallish following or you're not a
public figure, you forget who might follow you. So I think it's just good to do like a little wreki of who's watching your stuff. And then if you're like, oh, it might be like you can always mute your stories from other people as well. That's another thing that you can do to kind of curate who is able to have access to your kid online.
I think that's such good advice and I really like that sort of balanced take on it because I do hate the judginess that we see online and it's always about women. Of course. Yeah, it's very victim blame me because it's like, at the end of.
The day, let's get cranky at the pedos, Yeah, not the mums who mostly are just sharing a really benign photo of their kid that they don't they're not thinking about it. Yeah, Or let's get cranky at the social media platforms who don't have adequate protection in place exactly, Like, let's get crank at the right people instead of wasting so much energy ranting about children being posted online.
Like, I just think people need to use their brain as we've sort of gone through, like don't share things like your kids' school or videos of them in the bath. But we also just can't always live in fear because of some fuckers. And it's also just really misogynistic. Like if there was a dad fluencer and he shares videos and photos of his kids, everyone would be like, it's such a good d Dad of the year over here. But if a mum does the same thing, she's exploding them.
Yes, it's definitely gendered for sure.
But yes, I just think this is a conversation that we will probably continue to have and hopefully it's given everyone listening at home a little bit of food for thought. Recommendations for the week, we're going to talk about mummies, Flip and house.
We just love her so much. I really want to get her on.
I want to get We've never asked, we should ask.
But she would do it.
My hope is I want to go out for a drink with her.
I don't want to think we should do a little SSR trip if you will or were gonna go and meet her.
Just go and meet it. We love her so much. Like she doesn't perform, She genuinely just seems like a really fun chick and a good mum. Yeah, I slid into a dams. I told you this before.
What did you say?
I love you so much. I think you're so great. You made me laugh out loud, Like I just send a nice message to say how much I love to She's.
The only vlogger that I've ever watched.
She's great. You're even more obsessed with her than me. You watch everything.
I like it's annoying because I'm like, put more videos out, but like to spend time.
With your kids. Yeah. Sometimes I go to watch something and be like key reseals is like, dear Lord, she only just posted it and keys at home and notifications. Okay, dear Lord. All right, Well that's all the time we have for today.
We'll link her profile in our show notes.
Share the pod on your socials please and let us know what you think and what you would like to hear about this season.
Don't forget to tag us on socials at Ky Reese, at Kelly Underscore, M Karen and at EESSR dot PD.
This episode was produced by.
Us your Lovely host Key Resells and Kelly Mkaren, with audio production by the Lovely Madeline Joannu. Will be in your ears next week. She is bye.