Be Honest, How Bad Was It Going From One To Two?

We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land. We're recording on today.

When you're a first time mom, you're learning how to be a mom and your baby's learning how to be a baby. But when you're a second time mom, your baby's still learning how to be a baby, but you already know how to be a mom.

Hello, and welcome back to Eat, Sleep, Shit, Repeat, a wildly unhinged podcast about the madness that is motherhood and everything in between.

I'm Kelly McCarron and.

I'm Key Researls. And in case she missed it, last week, we spoke about raising biracial or multi racial kids in Australia and we spoke to our lovely shit of Juliet who shared her experience. So I hope that our shit is loved it too.

It was such a good episode and I just love that we get to chat about such a diverse range of topics.

Yes, diverse, get it.

Diverse love We love the diversity. Well, today we're delving into what it's real like going from one to two, How do you decide to grow your family? Are you ever even ready? And what was it like? Honestly, but first, my peek and pit. I thought I might start with my pit.

Well, yes, that's the way that we always should do it, I think, so that we're not ending on a.

Me and I just want to also say it's not as depressing as my previous pit. That's somewhere to start. Things are looking up, things are logging up. Basically, I've come to the conclusion that I will need to put rue into an extra day of daycare.

And remember last year when you thought you'd only need the two.

Days, Yeah, well thank god I went up to three because I would have been really left. She's currently in Monday to Wednesday, and then I have two days with her Thursday Friday. We often will pick up an extra day based on like how busy my work week is. But it's just proving to me that it's practically every week where I'm considering putting your in an extra day, and then you've got the stress of not knowing if

You were smashing it out. She was like just standing through this bah blah blah blah, like, yes, on top of everything exactly.

And I think what I've been realized is that I've been really chasing my tail. I've been trying a good feeling so hard. No, it just makes you feel like you're everything exactly because it seeps into every aspect and then the time that I do have with rue, like if she's sleeping on a Thursday or Friday, I'm doing.

Something in all lunch age.

Yeah, And I'm working every night after I put her to bed, and then quite often I'll get up early in the morning to get ahead, and it's just not feasible anymore. Like I need to have more days that are dedicated to work so that I can be a better mum in the time that I am, and also just better to myself, like being able to do things for myself that I wouldn't be able to do necessarily not having a little bit more extra time.

And I understand why it's your pit, because mum girl makes you feel like she's in daycare more days and she's not all of that stuff that I went through.

I remember we had this conversation pit last year at.

The end of last year fourth day.

But at the moment it's a really bad example because I'm also chasing my tail four days. But generally the Friday is like the Mummy Lenny Day and we do something really fun. Yeah, I don't even really go on my phone unless it is to take like a cute photo of him. Yeah that I don't even then, Like I'm not on socials, like it's just our day.

Yeah, it's good, Like it is obviously sad, right, it really is the end of that kind of time that we've had.

Together until she's sick.

Until she's sick, and then you'll be like and I'm like, cool, I'm just paying for these days, not doing any work.

I'm a contract rid and get paid when I don't exactly.

I think I've drawn it out for long enough. Like I'm very aware that it is not normal that most people could do three days of work and two off. But in saying that, I'm not really doing three days of work. I'm still doing the work, it's just not in a formalized way. So I think it's a little bit heartbreaking just because of maybe my peak. I'm feeling like a little bit of nostalgia for having just Rue and spending all my time with her. What's the peak?

So the peak is that I am with child.

She is the ladies and gentlemen, I am all the way up the dove, and she is impregnated.

Her womb is thriving.

It's throbbing, it is throbbing, it is very engorged.

It's so bad. Yes, I'm so excited. I'm now in the clear so I can talk about it, and.

That in the clear. Things so annoying though, like.

I mean, especially after everyone I know, but like especially I guess after your last experience, you totally get it.

But it's also like, yeah.

You're like I want to tell everyone, and I did.

Having the best carriage didn't impact this time around me telling the people that I need it too, because I still felt like this is happy news, like we need to share it. I need to have that support there, and just with all the other shit stuff that's been going on, like it's nice to have something happy to talk about. So that's been really important.

And when people ask me if they should tell people when they're pregnant, I always say, go for it. If you do, Miscarrie, you want your people around.

You totally totally.

You can't just internalize all of that. It's not good for you. You need people around you to grieve with you.

Oh totally. And you just need people to under.

Stan like, oh, why you're a bit shit at the time, because well, your body's trying to get rid of a human that you really wanted exactly awful.

But this baby is, Oh, it's in there. It's strong, strong, straight out of the gate.

Tell everyone how different this pregnancy has been straight out of the gate from your other two pregnancies, Like just wild, so insane. My last baby was definitely a girl for.

Sure, because this one has just been so different, different and strong and taking everything from me. Like from when I peed on the stick and it came up instantly, and this is before my miss period. I've never tested positive before a miss period, and in fact, most cases I've tested positive two to three days after a miss period, and I've had to go and get a secondary blood test to make sure that my hateg sea levels.

Arise because the lines have been so faint correct and the line's.

Been faint, and then also the hateg sea levels are low, so they're like, all right, well, we just want to make sure that there is a healthy baby in there. And obviously with rul was fine. With the second maybe not so much, but this baby six days before my missed period. I couldn't get the cap on quick enough.

And what was the reason that you did pee on the stick?

In the end, what happened was.

We were going away for the weekend and it was a Friday, Yeah, And I woke up in the morning and I was like, and then we had bought all this beautiful wine. We're gonna have a really great weekend. I wasn't. But the thing was, we had been trying since really February, yes, since you periods came back, and I was like, I'm not going to test until after my missed period or like when my periods meant to come. I'm just not going to do that to myself this

Say, they were doing every single thing I think.

We talked about. The we talked about yeah on.

An episode was so funny, but he was just like raw dogging Charlie several times a day on every possible ovulation.

There was a lot of take too much and basically just.

Like a jizz basket.

Yeah, And I just thought like, obviously, my cycle's just still off. And it was really like I felt like the time when we did get pregnant, we changed things up a little bit. I use the fourteen day ovulation sticks, so you test every single day, because those digital ovulation sticks were not accurate, like it was saying, I.

Used to use the happy smile ones well, because.

My cycle was off. I think I was testing at the wrong time. Oh so the fourteen day tests you test from I think the first day of your period, and so you see when it spikes and then you know exactly when it spikes instead of like catching the tail end spike.

That makes sense.

So for me that was more accurate because what I thought was happening, and it was saying on my app with two different things.

For anyone playing long at home, make sure you do know when you're spiking. Because like my girlfriend Ashley, she felt pregnant from pre come two days after her period finished with Bailey.

Oh pre come, my gosh, I didn't know.

She was ovulating at that time.

That fucking wild.

She's the most fertile, so she just has to look at Matt's stick and she's like.

Oh, I'm with child another one.

Sorry actually for outing you there, Sorry about that.

She's on this episode episode. Sorry ash So, I peed on the stick and I couldn't get the lid on quick enough before the fucking line came up, and it was so prominent, so prominent in here that I was like, oh, my fucking god, did you think it was a malfunction twin. No, I was like, it's twins.

Yeah. I thought it was twins for a long time too.

And I called my girlfriend Hannah and I was like, told her. She's like, well, there's always the first person I tell, even more so than Charlie. Well, Charlie was there, and I was like, oh, babe, look at this. Oh You're like, why did I do this?

On Monday, after the weekend.

It had been also, to give a bit of context, I had reached the end of my tether with trying. I was like, I don't know if it's the right time, Like, I'm just so emotional. It's feeling to every much every month.

Was another blow to you.

And I was getting really consumed by it. And I was like, I don't want to get that way. I just think, you know, the night before, we'd even spoken about like, all right, well if it's negative, then we'll just maybe have a break. Of course you did, and of course you know, of course he said. So I'm like, Charlie, look at this, and he's like, oh my god, so excited, and I'm like, oh, I just got my head around the other wise.

Yeah, I just thought to myself, oh, I was kind of ready for a bit of a baite.

Yeah, and then I'm like, all right, cool, so it's not just no, it isn't twins.

It's just confirmed with one baby.

God, but imagine the content. Yeah, it would have been cute. I was actually, yeah, cool, got my three. Because Charlie and I go back and forth on that. I'm more in the two camp now after this fucking pregnancy.

Yeah, but yeah.

Mahannah was like ah, and I was like, oh, the only time that really happens, right is when there's twins, and she's like, I mean you said it. I was thinking it so a boy because it was the same or a boy yeah, because I told a lot of my other girlfriends and they were like, yeah, big boy energy. And I was sick for nine weeks, so ill, not vomiting, just fucking so nauseous all the time, so faint, which is normal because I have really low blood pressure, and when I'm.

Pregnant, hired the most tired I have ever been. Do you know what I thought during that nine weeks? I thought pregnant people are annoying. If you don't, I don't know, And I thought to myself. Luckily I never worked with anyone closely when they were pregnant before I'd been pregnant. The thing is you'd have to tell people if you were that sick. But like if I didn't know that you're pregnant, and if I'd never been pregnant before, So I understood, Yeah, driven me up for wooll.

I I've got to have another snirky like.

It was bad. I only really worked between the hours of nine till twelve, and now I was done.

I understood every odor of what you were going through because that was what my pregnancy was like.

But it wasn't for you with rue.

No, you didn't actually start vomiting, though, did you, because you can manage it with snacks.

Yeah, it was just like I had to eat a shalload of food.

But it feels like you're perpetually hungover. It's almost like some people say that they wish that they did vomit, because then it would.

Like he maybe never did that.

Yeah.

No, it was like I had to be eating twenty four seven.

The only time.

I to be fair, I wouldn't say that's actually stopped. It hasn't.

It hasn't.

But the nausea, Yeah, you were so unwell. It was it fucked up for mental health because it's very debilitating. And then you think, oh, I should be so happy, this baby is so wanted, but it's very hard to feel so happy and positive when you feel awful.

Yeah, it was a lot, and you cranky two year old. Well, actually she does understand, which is weird. Like she's just so excited and like she's going to be sisters. Really sweet, but like Charlie had to leave work early often, like I was bedridden when I didn't have to do anything. I was in bed having you know, three or four hour napps.

And I would like send messages with our plans for the day and be like it's okay, you can leave it too, so you can go home and have your kid before you.

And Lucy were very supportive during that time. I just felt like I was not disappointing, but I just felt like I was not pulling my weight. But it's as a mom, as a business partnering.

A human, and I think that we forget just how taxing it is.

And it's all well and good.

If you have a really easy, lovely pregnancy and you don't find it hard, that is amazing, but it isn't uncommon to be quite ill, especially during that first to try mester. You are growing a human being with your body. We need to remember that and you need to remember it and be kind to yourself for the next six five and a half months how long it is, because you're growing a human Like if you're feeling down on yourself, Oh, I'm disappointing people.

No, you probably grow a leg.

Yeah exactly, Well that was what was so order today. I know I grew a little hart when I went to the obstcution on Monday. That was like kind of the first time i'd seen the baby since, you know, like the seven week mark.

And in seven weeks it's just like not even it looks like.

I was like, doesn't look like a tadpole. She would have she would, but I was like this anyways, But when I saw the baby on the screen this week, I was like, it had arms and legs and finger baby it was around. It was so like animated.

See boy, he's in their bouncing already. Rue was just like such a chiller, just chilled in there.

Yeah. She was like, I'm like pretty sure it's going to be crazy. Like me, I'm like, it's.

Going to be a crazy baby. Baby boy.

Yes, Len, such beautiful good news. Yeah, and so like you have had the shittiest year.

Yeah, it's nice to have something.

I think it's a gift from Deb deb center.

There's nothing more in life that she loved than kids. Yeah, and so yeah, we're bring her debs angel.

Oh very cute. That is beautiful.

Should I have a second baby? It was one of our top back Well it's a little bit too late for that. Well, it was one of our top performing episode. It's where we learned that you Kell are firmly in the no camp, one and done camp.

Even though you're like, are you sure?

A little surprised at forty? Maybe at forty, dear lord, I don't know. I'm giving you a bit of time, bit of time, so it's happening and I am shitting myself, So Kel, I thought I might just check you still want and done.

Funnily enough, after that episode went live, I think I said to you maybe next year I would consider falling pregnant again because the response from the shit is was so beautiful and really helpful. The community that we've got is just so lovely because they give advice without being annoying at all.

Yeah.

Well, they get us.

But a lot of people pointed out that my cons list was very short term, yeah, and that the pros are all long term yeah. And that really impacted the way that I thought about it because I was like, oh, that is so true, and it devastates me not giving Len a sibling because he loves playing with kids so much, and I love it when people oh it's fine. I'm like, I know, it's fine.

But two things can be true at once. It's fine, but you're also sad.

Exactly, and he loves playing more than anything with other kids. Yeah, so it's just, you know a little bit, I feel slack. So that was what I said to you and Luke after that too.

Yeah.

I was like, I think that if we're in a good.

Place next year, we can give it a go.

Give it a go.

And then I found out I had a brain aneurysm, and I was like, at the moment, I don't have a long term plan for anything because I don't know what the future is looking like.

Yeah, currently, which.

Is so fair, and I don't really are responsible and I.

Don't know what the impact of a pregnancy would.

Be on my body.

That would be my concern because a lot of health issues come from pregnancy, and it's like, exactly, it can really have an effect on it. So I think it's a responsible decision.

My mental health is also in the toilet at the moment, so definitely back to camp one and done.

All right, And I support that. I think it's great choice. Well, a girl can.

Try it, and she will continue to do so in a friendly manner.

With a friendly manner, I'll just give it a little edge across the line. Well, because that went so well and because of well, my current condition, we thought an episode talking to mums who decided to do it all over again would compliment nicely.

And we're going to talk to two sites because obviously we've got no experience. You don't want to hear from us with going from one to two because I think people's experiences can be so vastly different. I hear more often than not that zero to one is way harder than one to two, But some people say one to two hits their system way more than zero to one. So I just think it's really interesting to hear different people's perspectives on that. So we're going to be talking

Is it all worth it though spoiler.

Yes, and it might not always be easy, but I guess.

That is life it is. So First up is Zoe, so Kel mentioned she's a dear friend whose first pregnancy and birth didn't go exactly to plan, but it brought her the most delicious little boy, Max, and even after her experience, she was raring and ready to go for a second and recently gave birth to equally the most delicious boy called Joe. Welcome Zoe, Please tell us about your gorgeous fam.

Hey, guys, lovely to be here.

So I am a mum to Max who is two and a half and Joe, who is just coming up on eight months old.

That is a small age, yap.

Yeah, that's right. They are twenty one months apart.

Which is why we wanted to talk to you because we need to know how it all went. So, how did you know that you were ready to start your family pre Max? Like, what conversations did you guys have? How did you come to that conclusion?

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting question for us.

I think probably similar to you guys, anybody who has kids around the same age.

It was really influenced by COVID. I think we had thought that we.

Might want to wait a couple more years, but to be in a position where we couldn't really travel, we kind of felt stuck at home. Their wasn't, to be honest, a huge amount going on. It just sort of was like, well, why in the next couple of years anyway, honestly, why not, let's give it a go and see what happened.

I love that same talk me through your pregnancy and birth with Max.

The start of my pregnancy with Max all kind of went normal and to plan until about the twenty week mark when we found out that he was measuring really small, and from there we did a bunch of tests and it was all a little bit up in the air.

The end he ended up being born at thirty two weeks.

I had an emergency c section because my blood pressure was climbing and we couldn't keep it under control. So yes, he was delivered at thirty two weeks and he spent five weeks in the nicqu which was, as you can imagine, quite an intense time. But he was just an absolute

So how did you find that first year of parenting?

Look, it was really intense.

I mean obviously those first five weeks were really intense. But I think, you know, I'm a really positive person, and I think, what's your secret?

Well, I don't know.

I just think, you know, I almost felt like, well, the worst has already happened. You know, We've spent that time in hospital, I've had a really sick baby. And my perspective on it was really like, obviously there's health issues that they can cut up against from being premature. Luckily Max hasn't had any of them. But I sort of just thought like, well, it can only really get better from here, and I was just honestly so stoked to have him home that every day kind of felt.

Like a gift.

Really.

I think I probably would have had that perspective anyway, because it's sort of in my nature. But to have had the flip side and to leave the hospital without him, which was, you know, one of the hardest things I've ever done. Just to be able to have him with me felt really kind of special, and so it just really puts it into perspective, like those kind of middle of the night like, oh my god, I can't believe,

You know, what a beautiful way to look at it.

It's that perspective, isn't it that I think all of us we don't always have readily available to kind of pull from because I'm thinking of how this experience would influence, you know, the choice to have a second Like all new mothers compare, right, because you have this kind of like baseline of where your kids should be at and that's kind of you will gather around and talk about

Yeah, it was a little bit hard, and I think my husband and I basically just had to make the decision from the very first week that we were at home with Max that we couldn't be comparing him against kids his own age, and to be honest, we couldn't even really be comparing him against kids his corrected age because he was behind those kids too. You know, he

To be on a schedule.

My sister said exactly the same thing because her second was born prem me and also spent a couple of weeks in the NICKU, And yeah, she was like, you're not even allowed to sleep train babies, but I think they do because he sleeps.

Yes, Yeah, And like, obviously you wouldn't obviously wish it for yourself, but you're like, well, if you have to get a little bit of a silver lining out of it.

You know.

He was on a schedule when he came home where he was fed every three hours literally because they didn't have enough staff.

The babies have to.

Be on a rotation, you know, and so we brought him home and we just kind of kept feeding him every three hours until a doctor told us we could feed him every four hours, which in one way, you know, there was a couple of newborns who might have been having longer stretches overnight than that, But then I also have new people whose newborns were up every hour or

And that's kind of now that.

I've had another child, I'm like, oh, you don't get that with every baby.

Yeah, it's kind of nice that that is something that you get out of it, though, because the weeks that you would have spent away from him would have been awful. So to be able just to really enjoy the moments of being home and it's already hard anyway, but just having a little bit easier would be I think quite nice. So then talk us through, how did you know that you were ready to go for a second And did your experience with Max impact your decision to start trying for a second.

Yeah, it was actually, honestly one of those things where I thought, if I think too much on it, I

With Max.

The obstriction I ended up with is the same obstrition that I went to when I was thinking about falling pregnant with Joe, and I talked it through him and I said, look, I'm thinking about having a second what are the risk factors here are? And he told me, And I said, is there anything that we can do different this time around to potentially decrease the risk of getting preer clamps here again? And he talked me through

That was part of our.

Preventative plan, and I just thought, you know, I've got the best advice. I think the obstetric is an absolute expert in that field. And I've done everything that I can to prevent it happening again, and then the rest is just in the hands of whoever it's in the hands of. And I wrote, I actually found it the

Done it before, you'll do it again.

And so I just kind of kept that the whole way through, of like it was unpleasant, but it wasn't impossible, you know, and I kind of know what to expect, and I know what the good parts of it are as well as the bad parts, and you know, we're good at it now, so you know, I think if anybody could do it again, we could.

Yeah, oh my god, you've got such a good outlook. So, what was the pregnancy and birth like with Joe?

So, Joe, true to his current nature, was the craziest pregnancy. Honestly, I didn't really have a problem with him at all. Funnily enough, the anxiety almost came from because he was looking so healthy, because we could see that he was growing well, because we didn't have any indication that anything was wrong. I actually had significantly less healthy intervention and

Like, see you in three weeks.

Something happens, Like, don't you know, you know, anything of these things could go wrong. And so I think the hardest part was actually letting go and going you know, everybody's telling me that it's looking good, and all I can do is trust them and keep feeling him kicking and roll on from there.

So ultimately he.

Was delivered at thirty nine weeks, which was our plan, That was our best case scenario throughout the whole pregnancy. He was super healthy, he was really fat, and I basically got the birth that I didn't get to have with Max, which was pretty special.

Would you say that it was healing that going through that second pregnancy and then birth, just to be able to have an experience that you had a little bit of control over, and that was like, quote unquote, like a textbook kind of pregnancy and delivery.

I think it was healing in a lot of ways, but in another way, he almost reopened some old wounds because I thought a lot in the couple of days after Joe was born about how glad I was that Max was born first, because I kept thinking if I had had this experience already of having a baby taken out of me, put on my chest and not taken away, to go from that into having a second baby that I didn't get to meet for twelve hours, I think

Yeah, it's like hindsight. So how has the first eight months been being a mom of two?

It has been an absolute joy. I just can't tell you.

You know, I love being a mom and I loved being Max's mom so much. And I was worried before Joe was born because I think, I mean, I think a lot of people have this, that you have your first baby and you think they're perfect.

I just don't get it.

I don't get how could I love somebody else. And I honestly remember thinking to myself, like, it's okay, you love Max infinity and if you love Joe like half of infinity, like that's okay, he'll never know, Like it'll be fine, you know you would like I've be nice to him, and you know, like that's still a lot

I just love it.

That's so nice.

So what did you find harder going from zero to one or one to two?

For me, going to zero to one was the hardest, probably partially informed by obviously I had some health complications

And then, even though.

It's sort of the same, when you have another baby, you've already done that re orientation, so they kind of just slot into that new life that you've created for yourself, which is your life as parents, which is good because I think going from zero to one, your life as you know it kind of turns on its access. And then from one to two it's obviously a shift, but for me personally, it was nowhere near as kind of like cataclysmic as going from not being a mom to being the mum.

Less, of losing your identity for like a period, more of like, oh, this is just more of that side of maths.

And you know, I actually haven't even really gone through this process yet because they're quite close in age. So I felt pregnant with Joe when Max was thirteen months. I had only just stopped breastfeeding. I hadn't even really had a chance to kind of come back into myself. And even yet I can look at the situation now and go, oh, eight months, like you know this too,

You can just kind of you can really just kind of ride it out.

Yeah, you're much more relaxed because you've already been through it. That's what I'm like looking for to the most, So being a bit more relaxed and living in the moment and remembering hopefully a little bit more. What would you say to parents who might be gearing up for a second or are currently pregnant with their second and cautiously optimistic or maybe quietly shitting themselves about that transition from one to two.

I would say, you are so much more capable than you think you are. One of the things that I kind of felt quietly proud of with my second kid is watching my friends who are parenting their first kids at the same time and going like, do you know what I felt the whole time with Max? Like I wasn't getting better and like I didn't know what I was doing. But when I put myself up against somebody who is a first timer, I'm like, I'm kind of an expert in this field, actually, like what to me.

You're not a first timer anymore. You know.

When you're a first time mom, you're learning how to be a mom and your baby's learning how to be a baby. But when you're a second time mom, your baby's still learning how to be a baby, but you already know how to be a mom, And that feels quite powerful.

I love that you're so right, Like, oh, why, that's half of it, isn't it. It's because like, yeah, you're not learning a new skill you're just welcoming this little person and getting to know them, and you've got all the tools under your belt, and you've got another baby that's you know, or a toddler that's up and about already. I love this. Okay, I'm feeling a lot better. I'm feeling a lot better.

It's very exciting, and you should be excited. So in a couple of.

Months you might be ready to be like, get well, third, come on.

Look.

To be honest, I have told myself that I'll have a year off between speeding and next pregnancy, So we'll see how that goes, and we'll see where we are. At the moment. We can't get any more babies in our house, so we're capacity out the logistics of that.

But yeah, I.

Think, yeah, there is a possibility that might want to go for a third, just because like I like it.

On the opposite end of this one to two spectrum, we have my bestie Ashley, who found, of course having a baby shocked her, but she found going from zero to one Harley much easier than going from one to two. With the little Audrey or Rosita as we call her when she's being naughty with a little personality, so welcome back. Ash pregnancy with Harley number one, Tell me about it.

Tell me about the pregnancy and birth.

I feel like Harley was like the unicorn pregnancy. I've had no symptom.

No, you enjoyed your food. Literally, I think my.

Diet consisted of donuts and diet coke.

I once saw her consumed six Krispy kremes in one go. Oh, and you know what, don't judge you, No, no judgment at all. I feel like, did you get gd with the second pregnancy? I did, potentially I learned from my mistakes.

Clearly not, but yeah, I had a pretty positive experience, I'd say.

And then post birth was I reckon up until the six month mark, Like he kind of checked all the milestones, like breast fine, yeah, fred from like milk the breast until he was six months, pretty textbook sleeper. And Matt was home I reckon the first month, so he would help me put Harley to bed, and then if he woke up, Matt would literally get him out of the basinette, change his nappy, burp him, and then.

Like give him back to me. Yes, daddy, I mean the bar's low for men, but good.

I feel like he really wanted to kind of step into that role. He was superhands on. Yeah, he wanted kids like way locker than you did.

I Reckon.

He was like twenty five, is like, when are you going to start making babies.

I was like, no, I'm still going to Greenwood every Sunday.

He's still gallivanting, living my best, goddamn life. I just come back from you.

But I was like, I'm not on Saturday. It's Greenwood on Sundays.

But yeah, So I was really lucky to have Matt there that first month because I felt like that kind of softened the blow.

So, yeah, you decided quite quickly then to have another baby. Well, there's two and a half years between them, so I feel like we kind of made the decision around I Reckon.

Harley was probably eighteen months.

We're like, okay, yeah, maybe it's time to start trying again, but not realizing that I was fertile as fuck.

Yeah.

Literally, she just looks at a penis and gets pregnant, which we didn't realize because it took you about a year to fall with Harlee.

Yeah, and you were really young.

But then with your subsequent pregnancies, it's like, well, I'm pregnant.

It literally was, So there's yeah, like two and a half half years.

But I wouldn't say there's like any ideal gap because there's three years between Bailey and Audrey, and even still that feels like they're really close.

So I don't think there's any right way to do it. Yeah, I agree.

We made the decision when Harley was probably about eighteen nineteen months and then this is so nice everyonem playing along at home just to listen to the beautiful beauty.

We're just trying to like listening and be like hearing the decibels.

And the witch of the at the moment, everything's fine, and deciphering what child is he's a cranky little thing.

Wha was or where were we?

You felt pregnant with Audrey quite quickly.

Yeah, within like two months. Found out that it did have gestational diabetes, which didn't really affect me much sense other than the fact that I had to tweak my diet a little bit.

Like it was actually so much healthier the second time around, though, compared to how you ate with Harley.

And I feel like at the time I was like, oh my god, why me, Like it's he's not fair, But then I was like, actually, if it was managed, Like I know that some people obviously have to take insulin, but I was able to kind of manage it with diet, and it just made me more aware of what I was actually eating, whereas the first time, I was like, I don't give a fuck, Like I'm gonna eat what I want.

Is Harley still sailing along as a pretty textbook toddler in a lot of ways.

Yes, but I feel like I had nothing to compare it to.

So at the time, Yeah, because you were pretty early with your friendship groups as well. Yeah, so a couple of us had had kids who were around the same age or a little bit younger. In a lot of ways, I feel like I just kind of rolled with a punch. So I was like, ah, boy, mum, shit, Like he's active, he has a lot of feelings.

He still has a lot of feelings.

But yeah, so up until he was about two and a half, I think he was, Yeah, he was pretty textbook toddler. He slept through the night from like eight months, so I.

Was like, yay, eight months is actually amazing.

It's not very common for kids in any sense to be able to sleep through the night. They will have those sleep cycles and they will wake up. Some kids can put themselves back to sleep and then others can't. Yeah, so and every night's different as well, exactly. So Audrey didn't sleep a full night until she was two. Bailey didn't sleep a full night until it was like recently, until maybe it was like fourteen months. Yeah, so every kid was so different in that sense.

Yeah, so birth Audrey different Haarlee.

No, it was actually really good too, Like I feel like all of my berths.

You've had beautiful berths. Eppie's private hospital, so she had a beautiful hotel stay. As she would say, I didn't want to leave. Yeah, she was like, it's like a holiday.

You had like.

Finger sandwiches like three times a day.

You could order eat bed.

Oh my god, there was not.

But I did bring my own and I bought my own essential oils, my own thermos, so I.

Didn't need to leave.

Yeah, and I didn't want to had great birthing facilities. I actually enjoyed the berths.

At the end of the day. It's like one day and you're getting a human out of your body.

It's awesome. Yeah, it is. It's awesome.

Going back to Harley's how he kind of like regressed after I had her.

I bought her back. Yay, here's your baby sister.

He actually responded well. So he came into the hospital and he met her for the first night. Was really cute and like gave her the little bath and stuff like that, like super cute. And then we bought her home and everything seemed like happy dandy. And then he had that as every toddler has, like if you bring a human home, it's.

Like, I don't really feel like sharing my parents out with you.

Yeah, send it.

I did not ask for that.

Put it back.

So I feel like he really struggled with that.

And then around three, he was probably closer to three, he started having his night terrors.

Oh do you remember that?

Yes, And it was for about a year, like he would wake up screaming, soluble, yeah, sweating, like he was really in it.

And then I had to sleep in his bed because he would have them like three or four times a night.

So it was easier just to settle him exactly. So I slept in his bed for then You're still feeding Audrey.

So we okay.

So by that time, Audrey was about six months old and I was still breastfeeding her, but I did. I think I was doing like a dream feed about ten o'clock and then Matt would come in and give her a feed. If she was to wake up, then I might go from Harley's room to give her another feed at like two or three. Then she go back to sleep, and then Matt would put her back. So it was a real shit fight, like for at least a good year and a half. But then I look back, I was like, fuck, Like we survived that.

But so why do you because you said they wanted to be honest, why did you find it so much harder to go from one to two than from zero to one? Because most people say zero to one is way harder because like it's a shock to the system. You don't know what you're doing. So what do you think made it so hard to go one to two?

In a lot of ways, like looking at my resources as well, like Matt went back to work after two weeks yep.

Instead of being there the whole month.

And to be honest, I was not prepared for that because Harley was still.

You know, two and a half years old and hit daycare. I think he was like one day at the time.

So I pretty much had them both twenty four to seven, from when Matt went back to work after she was two weeks old, and I remember like bringing her home and after that first week he went back and like making myself breakfast, making Harley breakfast. I remember I told you this story, but I had her like on the tit making him breakfast, shelling eggs and just being like, I don't know how people do this, Like this is

Anything, but very good at that though. I feel like from one you have two tits, two hands, like and one baby, and then you go from one to two and you've still got the same amount of hands and tits and you're like, but there's two humans. Yep, So you know the ratios are not in your favor in that sense. Yeah, And then you chose to have a third though, so you're like out numbered even with your partner.

I need like extra limbs. So when do you think that you found your groove?

Still have it?

No? I reckon probably around the six month mark, I was getting out a lot more. I felt confident to go out with both of them. What was Audrew like as a baby in comparison? Was she more difficult? Do you think that?

I don't think she was more difficult. Chill? She was chill.

She was a child, a textbook contempt, like I can just.

Bring around anywhere and she'd be like in the Little two she was delish.

But yeah, so I feel like she was just chill, like she wasn't too demanding in that sense.

But I still found it really hard because two they're still trying to like assert themselves in like certain ways. But then three they're like, I know who I am, and I know what buttons to push and what buttons to push to get what I want, and they fucking push them.

Oh and they built stuff ever.

Ever and it don't snap ever anything that helped you or that you would like to impart wisdom as a mother of three.

Now, you know what I've.

Given myself the advice now, and I wish I had taken it earlier, but is to really and I know that everyone says it's like carve out me time, like sleep in the baby seats. It's like unconditionally put aside thirty minutes to an hour just.

For yourself, which is so much easier said than done. But I got rid of social media for that reason because I found that whenever I had a moment to myself, I'd be scrolling Instagram or going in social media, and that was my downtime. Like I could just kind of zone out.

I was thinking.

I was like, I need to get rid of something. So I just had to get rid of it, like cold turkey. It was an energy leak for me.

Yeah, a drain, a real drain for me.

Yeah.

And I would say that one hundred percent is it does not benefit you in nearly the same way that it drains.

That's the thing.

Like I kind of had this relationship with it where I always.

Told myself, I was like, okay, you've got fifteen minutes.

On instat you always just end up.

I was like, bitch, you been on here for three I was like, go the fuck to bed, like your kid's going to be up in twenty minutes, Like go to sleep.

And I couldn't.

It's so easy to waste time on social media. I could be sleeping, yeah, and that's way better for you.

So carving out that time, like and now, even if the kids are at home and I've done like all the mum stuff, wait until they've gone to bed and then.

Make my green tea. Just getting things that make you happy. And it might be like a puzzle, a puzzle and a puzzle caddy and a puzzle cat. I didn't know you had one of those.

Oh hey makes happy, it brings that is that is correct anyway? Yes, So just things that make you happy, like green tea and a candle and a book, a trashy book like, it doesn't matter what it is, but make sure that that time is just for you. And it might be scrolling social media, but if it's something that you know involves something that's more kind of filling that internal cup, then that's definitely what I would suggest.

I think that's beautiful advice. Thank you, Ashley, You're very welcome.

Thank you so much, Zoe and Ashley for joining us. We very much so appreciate your insights.

I think it's just nice to hear different stories and just true accounts of what it's really like. I know I'm feeling a little bit better.

I also think that your experience at the end of the day is going to come down to what sort of baby you have, Like what the baby's temperament is, Like, that's all.

What it comes down to, and that's not anything you can control. So it's we'll find out.

But can you have a recommendation for us today?

I do? This is my god. I am very excited to talk about this recommendation.

It's like everyone that we've spoken to today would fall under this category.

Yes, it is a television series and it's called Breeders.

He's a very hungry caterpillar. That is his whole thing.

Howerful.

Monday, he ate three one apple but was that enough?

On Tuesday he ate through two pairs, but he was still hungry.

What did he eat on Wednesday?

Danny was full the end?

Good night?

No now it is. I don't know why.

It's just so funny given today's topic.

When I was prepping for this, I was like, I'm fucking putting it in Broady and I are loving it. All seasons are on Disney Plus. But if you don't have Disney Plus, they've just put seasons one and two on ABC iView. How many seasons are the show or five? I know, but I saw it on the splash on iView and it was like coming soon. Watched the trailer and I was like, oh, this is a bit of me, This is a bit of me, This is a lot of bit of you.

I don't know.

Our additions are a bit rude, Kelly. Okay mccaren, they are take it right now.

This is not sci fi, that weird Christmas genre that you were into last year. Okay.

I'm not gonna apologize for my weird Christmas genre because that's what I love. It's what brings me joy. Okay. But this is like dark humor around parenting.

Okay, Kelly, that's awesome podcast around parenting fun?

Yes?

Is it English? Yes?

Okay, I mean I mean, I mean, I'm just recommended if it's America.

Hello, the banter with the British.

Yeah, the American Office beg.

To different with you on that one.

So you are a UK Office fan.

So basically it centers around two characters. I think his name is Dave and Ali, who are parents to two kids, and it's just ridiculous. He's got a bit of a rage, so he fucking yells at the kids. This may put some people off, but he loves them. And the thing is he was free having a kid. He was really good with kids, a really gentle soul, but having kids broke him. Oh and he has like this rage and it kind of is weaving through the story, but it just brings up things that just happen all the time

Stool to working.

So it's like immediately Charlie and I look at each other like that's a conversation every single COULFL has had, a couple has Oh.

My goodness came, I'm going to start.

I want to give too much away because I think us watching it and things just happening has been so joyful of fun to watch. It does get dark in moments, it doesn't shy away from the hard stuff, So just be prepared for that, but the lessons in it, I think just seeing people who are really struggling through parenting and life is quite comforting. Yes, and knowing that everyone is like at the end of the day, they're doing

Okay, I'm gonna start watching it tonight.

Yeah, do it.

That's such a good recommendation. I approve with that one. Thank you so much for joining us today. Please share the pod on your socials and let us know what you think.

And you can rate and review us. We would be mightially grateful.

Yes, it really does help us and reaching more parents who are struggling and getting in there. That's our target. Demo. This episode was produced by myself, Keith re Cells, and Kelly mccaren, with audio production by Madeleine Joanno. Bye Bye