The Complete Guide To Minimizing Taxes With An Early Retirement - podcast episode cover

The Complete Guide To Minimizing Taxes With An Early Retirement

Aug 28, 202323 minEp. 143
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Episode description

Ari Taublieb, MBA is the Vice President of Root Financial Partners and a Fiduciary Financial Planner specializing in helping clients navigate the nuances of an early retirement (non-traditional retirement).

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Who says you can't retire early and still pay the least amount of taxes possible? You're about to discover strategies that not only facilitate tax minimization but also ensure your financial plan aligns with the lifestyle you covet. This episode unravels a conversation I had with a client and an intriguing email from Henry, a 64-year-old enthusiastic listener, eager to navigate the tax terrain and live a more financially savvy life.

Managing your cash in an investment portfolio can be a delicate balance, but knowing your "sleep number" - the amount of money you need to sleep soundly - is a game-changer. I'll share insights on how to strategically rebalance your portfolio for an optimal growth path, determine the right time to start drawing down cash, and ensure you don't fork out more tax dollars than necessary. We delve into the importance of setting a customized rebalancing strategy that aligns with your individual needs and goals, and how having just the right amount of cash in your portfolio can create a buffer to weather market downturns.

Finally, we touch on a powerful tool in your financial arsenal - tax gain harvesting. This strategy could potentially zero out your taxes on realized gains, paving the way to an optimized financial plan and more money in your pocket. But remember, the crux of it all lies in having a plan that fits your lifestyle and holding onto the right amount of cash for your needs. Join me as we navigate this labyrinth of tax planning together, and feel free to reach out with any questions or if you'd like to learn more about this strategy.

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Ari Taublieb, CFP ®, MBA is the Chief Growth Officer of Root Financial Partners and a Fiduciary Financial Planner specializing in helping clients retire early with confidence.

Transcript

Speaker 1

A lot of you guys know this , but I'm obsessed with an early retirement , not because of this idea that you're technically retired early on paper , but I want you to do more of what you want to do with your time . That's what it's really all about .

It's very rare that people look back and go Ari , I'm so glad my average rate of turn over my whole life was 8.32 , 649% . No one says that they go . Yep , I was able to retire early and spend more time with family , or yep , that job that was not healthy for me . I was not taking care of my health in that role .

I switched to something and , yep , it doesn't pay the same , but wow , am I happier . And that's what financial planning , in my eyes , is really all about . It's not about dying with the most amount of money . It's about getting the most out of that money .

And today I'm talking about one of the ways to do that , which is please , don't pay more in taxes than you need to . I am recording this episode right after I just had a conversation with a client of mine and they said Ari just so you're aware I know you mentioned this in a previous episode because a lot of my clients listen to my podcast .

They say , ari , I hired you because of the tax planning . That was not happening with my other advisor and I know that that can make a big difference to the bottom line . I go that's correct . Is that why you still pay me ? They go no , ari , I pay you because I don't want to have to do it .

I feel like I know a good amount , but I also feel like I know enough to be dangerous and I want to be with someone for the rest of my life . I said great , I love working with you . But then I thought about it more and I went .

I know I've done a lot of episodes talking about tax planning and conversions and healthcare subsidies and all these things , but I want to simplify it and give you a framework about how to maximize tax opportunities If you want to retire early .

Quite simply , not because all of you are going to do exactly what I'm about to say , but a lot of you do want to make sure you don't pay more in taxes . And you're going okay , ari , even if I'm not going to absolutely follow everything you're about to say .

I want to know , like , what would I have to do if I wanted to have a quote on quote perfect early retirement where I don't pay more in taxes than I need to . So I'm going to give you that framework today . But , like I said , it was sparked from a conversation I just had with a client .

And if you all want to hear more about what it's like working with me when people talk about my tax planning , just go to Google and look up root financial partners and you will see what people have said about working with me .

Because , to me , tax planning yes , I'm obsessed with this stuff because if we can use numbers to live a better life , that's what it's all for . In addition to that , today's episode was also prompted so not fully by this client conversation , but by an email I received , and the email is from Henry , who says Ari , I don't like paying taxes .

I think you can help with that . What do I need to do to pay less taxes ? 64 and in good health ? So , henry , I like the straightforward aspect to that and I'm going to walk you through how I do it . Here's the first thing . Okay , number one do you have cash to live on ? Let's pretend once again , giving you examples and assumptions is how we do this .

Well , in my opinion . Let's assume you're 60 years old , you want to do everything in your best power to make sure you don't pay more in taxes than you need to . The first thing is how much do you have in cash ? Is that actual cash , meaning it's cash sitting in a bank account ? Is it in a high yield savings ? Is it really an emergency fund ?

We're like , all right , I'm really not going to tap into that because it's earmarked for if something occurs . Is it all in a brokerage account ? Is that brokerage account invested ? Well , oh my God , ari , you just spit out five questions . Let's go a little slower here . Okay , I get a little carried away , but here's how I want you to think through this .

How are you defining the cash that you hold ? Some people say , Ari , I've got 20,000 bucks and I'm never touching that , no matter what . That's my safe assets . I said great , are you open to investing anything above 20,000 ? They go absolutely , because 20,000 , that's the minimum . That's my quote-on-quote sleep number that allows me to sleep well .

Anything above that , I'm good to do whatever makes most sense for the plan . Say wonderful , why don't we invest that and get some good growth on it ? And they'll go , ari , I just don't know , because I might need these funds , I go okay , then let's really define . What is that sleep number ?

So this is an example of me really asking yourself , all of you , right now . This is a quick homework assignment . You can do it in two seconds because it's not a scientific answer , it's a gut answer .

What amount at all times do you want in your portfolio that you're like Ari , I'm never gonna touch and I'll reframe it because not investment or retirement portfolio of all your financial assets ? What amount do you want in your bank account so you never have to worry about going below that , where you're like , oh my gosh , now I'm uncomfortable .

Let's say it's 50,000 , okay , so 50,000 bucks , that's what's gonna , you're always gonna have that . That really means anything above that could be invested . Now , it doesn't mean you wanna invest it all the same way In fact you don't . But if you have a Roth IRA , you wanna maximize that growth . That's the account you're touching last .

Okay , so we want the tax-free growth happening there as much as possible . Then you have an IRA okay , think about that like the middle account . Then you have your brokerage account . The brokerage account is the best account if you wanna pull assets and retire early and pay the least amount of taxes .

Now , if your portfolio is all stocks let's just type a hypothetical here in one year of cash is what you have outside of your portfolio . Then you just have one year of cash .

So , basic example let's pretend you have a portfolio and just think across all your accounts it's 60-40 , meaning 60% is equities , 40% is fixed income , as an example , and you have an additional one year of cash outside of your portfolio . Well , the people would say all right , I just have one year of cash . I would say you don't .

You have 60% equities , you have 40% fixed income , cash alternatives . I would lump that in to say that 40% , at least partially , is cash . I'm gonna imagine a portion of that . So really it's not one year of cash . Maybe you have two years or three years or four years .

And so the first thing I ask people is when we're going through retirement planning and projections and how much you wanna spend and how to save on taxes . I want them to understand your portfolio is meant to be lived on .

Okay , it's more than just an emotional adjustment , but for a lot of people it is that it's oh , my God , I've been saving , investing to this 401k , I'm gonna be retired already . I'm gonna have a really tough time pulling from that account because I'm no longer gonna have new dollars contributed there , and that's right .

If your portfolio is declining , you should still be able to make withdrawals if you're invested the right way . So the question is at what point do you start drawing down cash ? At what role really ?

What role should cash play in your portfolio If you have a strategy for your portfolio , meaning a very intentional amount is allocated to cash , a very intentional amount in bonds or stocks , rebalancing as you should , not on a cookie cutter basis , and I'll give you a basic example of this . Some people say Ari , an advisor reach out to me .

They say Ari , how often do you rebalance ? I do it every quarter . That's what they said . I said I don't believe in any rebalance schedule . They go aria . That seems to make no sense at all . They go , so do not rebalance . You know , bi-annually or once a month , like how do you do it ? I go , it completely depends . They go aria .

This is like the least helpful conversation I've ever had on rebalancing . And here's the point I was trying to get across to this advisor is let's pretend you have a 60-40 portfolio and let's pretend that the 60% so the equities goes up by 10% and now it's worth 70% , and the 40% ? It's gone down 10% , so now that's worth 30% .

So you had a 60-40 , now you have a 70-30 . That is saying , yep , let's do a rebalance to come back to the appropriate mix based on your goals .

Okay , but let's pretend six months goes by both are fluctuating the equities and fixed income and then six months later it's still exactly 60-40 because it went up and then it went back down and then went up and went back down again . Now we're back at 60-40 . Some advisors would still go do a rebalance because they do it bi-annually , no matter what .

I would say why do it ? Because nothing's actually changed . Other people will say I only rebalance twice per year , no matter what . And I'll say sometimes for clients , I'll rebalance 12 times in a month . They're like why on earth would we do that ?

Well , what if you have , for example , an 80-20 allocation and , because the markets performed all different ways , you now have a 95% , 5% allocation ? You're like Ari , oh my gosh , what's going on here ? We might need to do a ton of rebalancing .

So the idea here , as I've alluded to in the past don't be cookie cutter , don't have a cut schedule of here's when I rebalance , make it really customized . So that's kind of number one . Now let's go back to the example here . If you don't have an intentional strategy , here's what I want you to do . Okay , and it's not perfect and you're gonna go .

Ari , where's the science behind this ? Okay , it's my logic from working with clients . Let's assume here that you have a portfolio 80% of it is inequities , 15% is fixed income , 5% is cash . Okay , if you don't have an intentional strategy , I want you to choose a number . Okay , this number is between 20% to 25% .

That's the number I want you to say Ari , this is the amount that's in cash . And why is that in cash ? So , if you have a million bucks , at a minimum $200,000 should be in some conservative safe asset . But here's where it gets interesting , the reason it is so arbitrary . Let's pretend that you wanna spend $50,000 a year .

Okay , you have a million bucks , you wanna spend 50,000 bucks a year , so you can do everything you wanna do . I'm gonna guess that's low , but let's just use it for example , sake . And you have , like I just said , 20% of that million in cash . Okay , so now you have to call it 200,000 bucks and just super safe cash , don't have to worry about it .

That represents four years of living expenses . 50,000 a year times four years . Okay , well , the average market downturn is about two to two and a half years . So to me , let's double it . Let's have that four years . To me , that would be actually a very safe portfolio , but a lot of people would go .

I know that's safe and that's going to allow me to do some of the tax strategy you're talking about , because if I'm living on cash , it means I'm not pulling from my IRA , which keeps my income low . Okay , I see where you're going with that , but now let's bring it back to real life , because in real life , you're probably not spending 50,000 bucks a year .

Maybe you're spending 100 , or maybe you're spending 150 . So now , if you have 20% of your million bucks , you've got a year's worth of cash on the side . But what about next year ? And how do you know ? Okay , what do I sell for my current portfolio ? So next year I have cash as well .

There's something we need to think about , which is we need to protect against the market and sometimes we need to protect against ourselves , and there's a mix of both . Let's assume there's a down market , okay , and the down market goes down 25% . Well , what if the market doesn't recover in time ?

That's a lot of you are thinking and , by the way , it might not I can't guarantee it will but I want you to think of this as a buffer . Okay , it can stave off the need from pulling from your portfolio for one , two , three , four , five years . Then it did its job . So here's an example .

For a 2010 retiree , you didn't really need to use these funds for 10 plus years . For a 2000 retiree , you spent the first 30 years of retirement using it . Then , just a few short years later , because of 2008 , it was oh my gosh . What do I do ?

None of us can predict , based on when you retire , how long we're going to need it , or if we need it , and to what extent we just need it to help soften the blow . So here's the example I'll give you .

You will find that if you don't have too much in cash or bonds , you may actually get to the point where you need a lower percentage of your portfolio in cash and bonds later in retirement . Let's practice out . Let's assume you have a million bucks . You retire at 65 , so security doesn't start until 70 .

You're taking 5% out of your portfolio , which means 50,000 bucks a year , which is the equivalent of 250,000 if you want five years of living expenses . So that tells me . What if you have a 75% equity and 25% fixed income portfolio to start ? Okay , I think that should resonate . Now you might go on . Already I've got other income sources .

There's more to this . I go , I get it , but let's keep it simple . Let's assume you get decent returns from this portfolio Over the first , let's just say , five years , and then Social Security helps out .

And when Social Security helps out because once again you're 65 today , social Security is going to help you out in five years it's going to bring in 40,000 a year . Well , now your portfolio is worth 1.2 million because you've gotten good growth and now you only need 10,000 a year from it because you want to spend 50, . 40 comes from Social Security .

Less than 1% is now needed from your portfolio , which means a stock portfolio generating 2% to 3% in dividends . You're covered . Your need for cash went from 25% of your portfolio to zero . Okay , so hopefully this just resonated . Understand that your portfolio , if you invest it appropriately , it should be a cash generating machine .

Now , everything I just said there makes a lot of assumptions , but a million dollar portfolio , some mix of stocks and bonds . It could generate easily 3% of cash from interest in dividends . And why do we do that ? We need that to pay for living expenses and everything you want to do in retirement . So why did I go through this big example ?

You're going all right , you didn't even go through taxes . Well , one , to show you that it's not cookie cutter . But two , you really , if you want to retire early and maximize your tax situation , you need some aspect to pull , excuse me , some account to pull from , like cash , meaning that might just be cash you're living on to keep income low .

Or you might need a brokerage account and in your brokerage account you might have positions with a ton of gains , some with a ton of losses , but your IRA and Roth IRA , even if you are above age 59 and a half , so you can pull from them without penalties or excess taxes . It doesn't mean I want you to , I want you to go .

What accounts and assets do I have , like a cash account or a brokerage account that you can live on because it's going to keep your income low , so you can do those Roth conversions that I talk about so often Roth conversions can conservatively add hundreds of thousands of dollars , if not millions , when done well . But that's just number one .

Okay , roth conversions , these are tremendous ways to save . Just it sounds crazy , but millions of dollars in taxes when you do it well . Now , if you don't do it well , it would have , in a lot of cases , been better off doing nothing . So it's you want to implement it really well , and the idea here is through an example .

I've told most of you a lot if you listen to the podcast , which is my cauliflower example . Let's assume that you have a $3 million portfolio . Okay , you have a $3 million portfolio , and that $3 million portfolio gets broken down in a few different ways . You have 500,000 or Roth IRA . You've got another 500 in a brokerage .

So really , you've only got 2 million in what we'll call in the RMD account . Okay , that's your IRA . Well , you're gonna be projected if you have 2 million dollars right now . You would have to . If you had your RMD today , you'd have to take a $76,000 RMD . So you're gonna already . It's not really a big problem .

Okay , so $76,000 RMD , maybe you're going already . I need a hundred thousand to live on anyway . That tells me 76,000 comes from my IR from my IRA , because I have to take it , whether I want to or not . The other 24,000 that's gonna come from somewhere else .

So security or my Roth IRA or my brokerage account , it can come from wherever you'd like , but 76,000 is coming from it . But now you're going already . This isn't that applicable . I'm listening to this right now . I'm 50 years old , I'm 55 . I'm 60 , I'm in my 40s . I'm not in RMD mode . In fact , that sounds like when I'll be .

You know , I can't even think 30 , 40 years down the line Will I still be alive then ? You'll be alive then . But some of my clients will joke me with me about that . But I want you to know that that 76,000 dollars doesn't seem like much . So why do I give you that example ? What if you invest well ? And what if you grow tremendously amount ?

You're investing really well , and now it's worth five million dollars . Well , if it's worth five million dollars , you would be projected , once it's RMD time , to have to take a RMD of a hundred ninety thousand dollars , and once it starts it doesn't stop .

So it's a hundred ninety thousand , then it's two hundred thousand plus , then it's two hundred and fifteen thousand Plus , and so on , and now you're going already , wait a second . I only need a hundred thousand dollars a year to live on . Why am I being told I have to take out two hundred and fifteen thousand ?

Well , the government is saying , hey , prospect or client , in this example , you have to take this out because , whether you want to or not , you got a deduction all of this time and now we want our cut of the pie . So now you're going wait a second . Ari , I have to take out two hundred fifteen thousand dollars .

And I have social security and I have rental income and my spouse has a pension . I'm gonna be paying , you know , fifty percent plus taxes . Is that real ? I go yep , not only is it real . That's why we want to do conversions to save you millions of dollars . The reason I can't tell you the exact amount is , of course , I don't know what you want to spend .

I don't know what this looks like for your individual situation , but for a lot of clients , we are able to save them four to four hundred thousand plus dollars through quality tax planning . That's number one . Number two and one of my favorite examples is something known as tax gain harvesting .

A lot of you have heard of tax loss harvesting , but tax gain harvesting another way to pay a very little amount in Taxes over the course of your retirement . And here's what it looks like .

Let's pretend you have Apple stock and it's in a brokerage account , not an IRA , not a Roth IRA , but a brokerage account , also known as a joint account or a taxable account . They all mean the same thing and the industry likes to make it as confusing as possible , so I'll talk to them about that .

But you have Apple stock and let's assume you bought it for ten thousand dollars and it went up to a hundred thousand dollars . Okay , traditionally , if you held this for under a year , meaning you bought this Apple stock , you held it underneath 365 days and then you sold the stock , you're going to be paying taxes if you just made more money .

So you might be paying a very high amount in taxes Maybe it's 24 percent , maybe it's 30 plus percent , plus state taxes , so you might be paying a ton on those gains , maybe 30 plus percent . So if you have a 90 thousand dollar gain , you might be paying 30 percent taxes on that , which I'm sure you don't want to do .

But if you're wondering how can I pay zero percent taxes , it came to the right place , because a lot of people will go aria have heard about tax gain harvesting . Is that what you're alluding to here ? And it is . Which means and I'm just pulling up my other sheet here it's called my important number sheet . And so what this sheet is ?

It tells me all the important deadlines , Whether it's hey , how much income can we make and still do a Roth contribution , what is the standard deduction this year , and if you're going aria , I want that important number sheet . Um , it's in my ebook , so it's in the ebook .

I think it's one of the final pages in there where you can download what I'm looking at right now . But what this is saying is if your income meaning you retire let's assume you're 60 years old you retire and now you have no income , there's going to be future income , but today there's no income .

Maybe a little bit of interest and dividends , but besides that , very little income . What this means is if your income is below 89,250 dollars your taxable income , you could sell that position . I just told you that went from $10,000 to 100,000 that $90,000 gain and you would pay 0% taxes on the gain . That's correct , assuming you've held it for over a year .

You would pay 0% taxes . And the reason for that is if , for example , you were to take that $89,250 , that's essentially the most that you're able to deduct and pay 0% taxes . So to just summarize this so you can see it clearly you buy Apple stock for $10,000 . It grows to $100,000 . You have a $90,000 gain there .

What's happening is , I'm saying , based off of your income level , what if we intentionally sold this position ? Okay , so we're intentionally realizing gains . You're saying , yep , I know there's a big gain there , I want to pay taxes on it . But wait , because my income is low and my income is so low it's underneath $89,250 , I can realize that gain .

So $90,000 gain $89,250 of that gain is taxed at 0% and the other $750 would be taxed at 15% . So it's only that first $89,250 that gets the 0% tax treatment . But wait , there's more . It sounds like an infomercial there . The standard deduction for this year is $27,700 . So really , it's the $89,250 plus the $27,700 .

That's actually what you're able to realize tax-free and pay 0% taxes . So you might be here and all this going . Oh my gosh , ari , I'm overwhelmed . I know I need a certain amount of cash , like you talked about at the beginning of today's episode . Then there's Roth conversions , then there's tax gain harvesting . How do I manage all of this ?

That's why people work with me . But primarily , here's the framework . You want to retire early and you want to save the most in taxes and just optimize your financial plan . What you're going to want to do is , if you want to retire early , you need a brokerage account .

You need some asset that's going to help you bridge the gap so that you can implement this tax strategy really effectively . If you only have an IRA , it's okay . You can still implement a lot of this , but it's not absolutely optimizing the effectiveness if everything's in an IRA .

On the flip side , if , for example , you're like yep , ari , I've got a brokerage account , I've been preparing for this , I've got other cash , I've got enough to live on and I have enough to be able to pay Roth conversion taxes .

I've got enough to do all these other things you talk about , well , you might be in a really strong position to optimize your financial plan and generate two , three , four , five , either hundreds of thousands more or millions more through quality tax planning , of course , depending on the assets that you have .

The overall framework here is have the right amount in cash for your plan . Don't take a cookie cutter . Look at it . Some of you might go . You know what , ari ? I need one year's worth of living expenses , based off of my goals . Some of you might go . I need five years worth of living expenses . Some of you might be going . I need five years worth today .

Then Social Security helps out . Now I need way less . So I tell people I hope you marry your partner forever . Don't marry your asset allocation forever . Don't marry your tax strategy forever . Make sure that your plan really is customized to what you want out of life . Number two is there is so much out there with tax strategy . Please don't get overwhelmed .

Don't get that analysis paralysis . Make sure you're doing the right things , and the right things is absolutely going . What our future RMD is going to look like . What can I do today to pay less taxes ? Do I have a really strong position like Apple that's done well and I pay 0% in taxes ?

These are some of the strategies that can save you hundreds of thousands , if not millions , and it's what I love to help people do . So I hope this episode was helpful . If you have any questions on this or want me to either do it another episode specifically on just cash or specifically on just tax gain harvesting or just conversions . I love doing it .

I want to make the most helpful content out there , keep the questions coming and for all of you that want a custom strategy , of course reach out to myself , and I'd love to help you do that . I'll see you all next week and now I certainly appreciate it , and I will see you all each week .

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