#6 How to eat better with ADHD: Carol May, ADHD Health Coach

Hi, I'm Joseph Pack and welcome to Scattered Founder. On today's episode, I'm speaking with Carol May, an ADHD health coach who helps people like me. with a scatty ADHD brain to have a much more healthy relationship with food. And she does it through something called intuitive eating. Now, I didn't think that was possible, to be honest, because I just wolf food down as quickly as possible. but she has an amazing way of explaining it and she goes into quite a bit of detail on this episode.

linkedin account you have the words do you have an adhd brain and a chaotic unhealthy relationship with food and for a long time that was me until i met my now wife kaylee who really has helped me in this area and taught me how to cook actually and i would say that that it has taught it has changed my life overused words for sure but it has because what we eat when we have adhd

is critically important, wouldn't you say? It is, I would say so. We'll get into that, but I just want to hear a bit more about what you're doing and who you're doing it for. Thank you. So I... I have a 50-year history of dieting. So I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD till my mid-40s. And so I didn't know back then that all of the stuff that was going on with me and my binge eating was actually linked to how my brain functioned. So I put it down to being stupid, chaotic and just worthless, really.

So I started working, I trained in eating disorders, weight loss counselling and a load of other stuff in order to help other women like me. Work out all of the issues that are behind the eating habits. So if you like the psychology of food and eating. And so that's where my sort of main focus was in helping other women like me. So midlifers.

business owners, professional women, high achievers with massive expectations. So what is it about high achievers then that makes this a particularly difficult? I think our expectations of ourselves, particularly as women. Right. Because, you know, what we forget now is how, you know. I'm 68 now, right? So I'm, as my granddaughter calls me, a funny old bird. That's brilliant. Yeah, she just points at me and she goes, no, no, you're just a funny old bird.

And, of course, everybody just cracks up, right? Yeah. And then she giggles, you know. But, and I guess I am, but, you know. What I see so much of is that people are very focused on how things are today, but they are not looking at how things used to be. So our expectations of ourselves are based on today. And so women's expectations of themselves are that they can do and be anything. Yeah. And have everything. Right. Well, do you know what? I've tried that. It's really tricky. Yeah. Yeah. So.

What happens is, you know, and then you add in diet culture and all of this stuff, like there was a post on LinkedIn recently about heroin chic. You know, we're going back to that nonsense about being super slim and unhealthy. Okay. But the dieting mantra, the dieting propaganda is embedded in our brains. As women. as women yeah but now it's coming out in boys and men definitely yeah but for women it goes it has a longer history yeah definitely yeah yeah right and

You know, my mother was a professional woman. So in the 1960s, when I was a teenager, she worked in London for the BBC full time. And nobody else in my class at school had mothers who worked full time, let alone in London. So it was like I had this sort of model of a woman who could do everything she wanted. Yeah. So that's my expectation. That's so interesting. Yeah, we're being fed that. Yeah. My granddad is still, to this day, 79 next year.

full-time business owner. I said to him, are you thinking about retirement? This was literally last Christmas when he was 77. He said, yeah, well, I've already retired. I'm now working five days a week. okay yeah yeah yeah so i was like okay yeah so i've just been around that my whole life yeah um so yeah sorry carry on it just reminded me that how it could that's affected me for sure

So, you know, my son runs, my son has four businesses. Right. Wow. All under one umbrella. But he has four businesses. My daughter is very high up in a corporate. Yeah. And she is highly motivated, very ambitious, wants to be in control. Of everything in her life. Yes. Is she diagnosed? No, she isn't. Could she be? Yes, she could. You know, my son the same. I don't know. And we'll talk about that later. But it's, you know, what I see, I learn from her and her conversations. You know, she is 37.

You know, she gets these questions of, have you got children? No. Do you want children? And she goes, do you ask that of a man? No. She said, I don't think you do. So why are you asking it me? Right. She gets right shirty. Oh, absolutely. She calls people out on everything. And, you know, and then she said she's had.

A massive extension done on a house and a refurb of the rest of the house on her own. She lives on her own. And she said people have assumed that somehow there's a man there as well and that they're paying for it. That's annoying. Not just annoying. For me, I am hugely disappointed, you know, because as a teenager in the 60s, I grew up in that sort of place of, you know, burning your bra.

feminism and, you know, all of that sort of stuff. And women can do anything and be anything and have everything place. And we're still the same. And so, you know, I'm hugely disappointed in society, but I have also learnt how long it takes us as a society to really change. So, you know, so she is the age group of the women, most of the women who come to me. So late 30s. 40s 50s and they come to me because they are in

In a similar position, hugely ambitious, very fiercely independent. A lot of them do have families. They have high achieving partners as well. And they are struggling. They're struggling with their body. They're struggling with their health, struggling with energy, focus, and very often their weight as well.

As you were talking, then you reminded me of something, which is that I have struggled in my life as well with control issues, let's say, of which I've managed to release a lot of. And actually, I've realized that potentially releasing control of... everything around me has made me happier than anything else i've ever tried to do and it and there was so i've got into a hell of a lot of yoga and meditation and spiritual like eastern spirituality over the past five years and one of the

I've literally got this quote on my phone. I'm going to read it to you quickly because I read it all the time. And he said, it's from Michael Singer, who's a spiritual teacher in Florida. Wrote The Untethered Soul. My favorite book, actually. He said, You don't have to believe there is a God directing the universe. You just need to stop believing that you're that director. As soon as you can attune your spirit to the idea, the easier and happier your life will be because you will have given up.

the most potent addiction of all, control. Absolutely. Absolutely. And for anybody listening to this, go back and listen to that quote again. because control is... I really don't like that word. It's a negative word, actually. It's a negative word. It's like what we were talking about before, those shoulds, oughts, must, have to words. They come from our critical parent voice in our head.

the voice that we heard as a child. And it is all about, it's linked to controlling how we show up in the world, controlling our... controlling our emotions and just behaving properly, whatever that is. I have no idea. I watched my granddaughter. She's just four. If you met her, you would think she must be at least eight or ten because she's very tall. And the conversations she has with you are incredible. Her language, her vocabulary and her reading. And she's not at school yet. Right.

Is she an ADHD-er? Quite possibly. And will it serve her later on? Absolutely. Yeah. She will now in our current world learn to navigate things in a different way. Yeah. But, you know.

What I did was, my big thing was, I'm fine if I don't eat. Once I eat, my willpower's gone to hell in a hand cart. Right. So that's like the trade-offs between success and control in terms of achieving a lot externally. And then the bit that most people don't ever see. Because if you're successful, which...

which we are or have both been, let's say, what we are, we portray an image. Now, I don't want to speak on behalf of women because obviously I'm not one and I don't fully understand how that is. The experience is obviously so different. Because there's a much lower level of prejudice against me. I'm allowed to just get on with what I want and not be judged for it. However, I am actually one of many children. How many? I have four sisters.

One stepsister and a stepbrother. Wow. There's a lot of us. My stepbrother's quite a bit older than me, but all my sisters are around me in age. My youngest one's 16 now, so that's quite a lot. Crikey. But I've been around... girls a lot and women my entire life. And that has definitely made me a different kind of person to some of my other friends that have only brothers. In fact, very different, in fact. Very, very different when I think about it. Now...

I, having been an entrepreneur most of my life, portray an image to the world. But what they see and what happens in reality are two different things. Yep, absolutely. Isn't that how we operate though as human beings? Yeah, it is. But I think being too attached to the image I'm portraying as an entrepreneur affects the rest of my life.

So I have to create a disconnect. I say, that's the character I'm playing when I'm doing that job. And when I'm finished, he goes in a box. I genuinely do that. Okay. It has to.

And I got the idea from a guy called Derek Sivers, who said that the main reason artists choose stage names is actually psychological. Even though there is a artistic... promotional benefit to having a different name the real benefit comes that when someone attacks their work they're attacking the persona not the real person yeah yeah and that allows them to take more creative risks

I think that makes sense. It makes perfect sense to me. Yeah, absolutely. So you've got midlife women coming to you who are very successful, but they're really struggling. So what are they struggling with? They're struggling with time management. They're struggling with... So they're struggling with getting their work done so they can spend time with their family. They are struggling with meal planning and cooking. Because.

of lots of reasons. They struggle with their own energy. You know, I can remember when I first started working with an ADHD coach. It was about five years ago, I think. And I would say to Emma, she said, how are you today? I said, my brain is bouncing off the inside of my head. I said, I'm sitting here, my body is still, and my brain is doing this, right? Yeah. And she said to me, that's because we're women. That's how it. Oh, I can't cope with this. So it drives me nuts. And when I.

Describe that to some of my clients. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how mine gets, particularly in the afternoons. Yes, I'm exactly the same. Right. And I say. So what are you eating? Well, I don't have breakfast because I leave home too early. And I often miss lunch because I'm just too focused and busy. But I've always got chocolate and sweets in my desk drawer. Dangerous. Yeah. And immediately, you know, I go into that place of, uh-huh.

Uh-huh. Okay. Because I just know, you know, I know exactly what's going on with their brain. And, you know, they're procrastinating. Don't get me wrong. I'm really good at procrastinating. And if you could see where I'm working, which is not a desk, it's a table.

You probably wouldn't be surprised. You'd probably say, oh, yeah, that's an ADHD is desk. Right. Because and it's just, you know, I remember when I said to Emma one day, I said, I'm just sick of all of these notebooks and piles of stuff. And she went, you know, that's an ADHD thing, don't you? No. She said, Google it. I said, you're having a laugh. No, no, no, Google it. She Google ADHD and piles of stuff.

I went, oh my God, it's a thing. It's actually a thing. Instantly, I forgave myself. I stopped trying to be that. perfect person in control of my working environment. So, yeah, with my clients. They're holding on. It's like by the skin of their teeth, they're getting through every day. Wow. And that's causing stress, I'm assuming, and anxiety and all sorts of...

Issues. And weight gain very often. Weight gain, yeah. Not always, you know, because there are a group of women out there who are, you know, they have an ADHD brain. but they have a different relationship with food. But the majority are like I was, which is a chaotic relationship with food.

So what do you normally recommend to them? So I teach intuitive eating, right? So it is about reconnecting. with our body, what it needs, how much it needs, and when it needs it. That's in its simplest form. Yeah, yeah, I like that. Now... I don't think any of the women I've spoken to are on medication, so that doesn't come into it. Because if you're on medication, medication is based on amphetamines. They have an appetite suppressant.

um part to them and um so you can take one of those first thing in the morning not be hungry all day right if they were on medication i would suggest they ate some breakfast first and that would be high protein high healthy fats no carbohydrate have you got some examples of that Well, my favorite is eggs and avocado. Yeah. Right. I also, I buy large slabs. Oh, you're making me hungry.

I buy large slabs of salmon, slice it up, freeze them, and then I have a George Foreman grill. So you can grill a piece of salmon in about 30 seconds. Wow. So for an ADHD, that's like, oh.

instant food yeah and if necessary hard bowl some eggs keep them in the fridge you know if it's like i haven't got time to cook that's fine you know um i have been known You know, if I was going to a meeting in London, for instance, or I was on a mastermind a few years ago, I took my breakfast with me on the train.

So hard-boiled eggs, avocado, a little spoon and a little short knife. And I would sit by the River Thames every morning because the weather was always good and just eat my breakfast. Right. Right. So, and the intention was to properly fuel my brain. Yeah. And actually, that applies to everybody, not just ADHDers. But for ADHDers, it's essential to feed your brain, to keep your...

energy balanced, your focus, your motivation, everything in order to work through your day. So it's interesting because... My, what I do, which is not, I'm not recommending to anybody is a bit different actually. So I, we really well. And that is because my wife is, she's had some.

problems with food in her past and she's so she's learned a lot about what to eat and what to not eat and things i've obviously had problems with food and how it affects my adhd and whatever so i now monday to friday i don't I make breakfast in the morning, give it to my son, my wife eats, and then I don't eat my breakfast. I leave it on the side. So it's porridge, usually with nuts and peanut butter and all sorts of things.

blueberries, raspberries, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then I go to work at home. I work from home in Memphis. Then I go down for lunch, which my wife will have made. which is usually a salad or something like that. And then immediately after I finished the lunch, I eat my breakfast. I know it's unusual.

But I experimented with lots of different ways to do it. Now, I don't have a huge problem with eating breakfast. In fact, eating breakfast is no problem whatsoever as long as I eat something like porridge or something like you say, high protein or eggs, for example. Eggs and avocado, absolute.

perfect anything like that great i just found that i was able to focus a bit better on an empty stomach and i only started doing this after practicing yoga so i don't know whether it's a symptom of the yoga Or not? Because they recommend to do yoga and to meditate on an empty stomach. They do. And I'll be honest with you. I don't eat breakfast first thing in the morning. Right. I never have. I've always struggled with it. And, of course, the message was, got to eat breakfast. And when I...

Well, in my early 40s, I did a charity trek along the Great Wall of China. And it was, you know, we leave at eight. You've got to get up at six. You've got to have breakfast. Breakfast! Really? And I would actually feel sick trying to eat it. Really? Yeah. Now I understand. My body just does not need it at that time of day. And like you, I can work on an empty stomach, but I don't have a set time to eat. So with intuitive eating, it's like, oh.

I'm hungry. Right. So, you know, I work from home. I can just go to the kitchen and I have stuff that's quick. Already almost. prepared or semi-prepared stuff that's quick um you know i make energy balls for instance you know two different flavors because one has to be chocolate of course it does and but they you know it's it's dark chocolate um so i've always got those in the fridge

They're in the fridge because they're harder to eat when they're in the fridge. So they feel more satisfying. Right. I hard boil eggs so I can always, between meetings... calls, whatever, nip into the kitchen and have a couple of hard boiled eggs, which I often eat with a little bit of garlic mayo. Because another thing that ADHD is like is that mouth feel of food. definitely so you know we are into cheese butter cream avocado you know mayonnaise eggs whatever that has that kind of feel

Yeah, definitely. And I eat standing up. Everybody says you've got to sit down. Well, actually, during the day, I don't. Because if I sit down, my brain goes, oh, she's sitting down. Right. OK, we'll make her tired. She can have a nap now. No, no, I don't need a nap. I don't want a nap now. Right. And of course.

You know, my granddaughter again, she goes, oh, this is a nana nap. No, darling, I'm not having a nana nap. Don't need one of those, thank you. She goes, daddy does. I said, yes, I know daddy does. But I said, daddy can sleep just like that, right? But, you know, I went through a phase where, you know, I ate like that and then I would eat something else round about two o'clock.

And then I will close my laptop, go and sit down and watch some trash TV and I would go to sleep. So are you saying that everybody, there's no perfect rule? Nope. But there's a framework almost to learn about how to learn when you should eat. Yes. Yeah. So it's like whenever you see anything like a blog that tells you about you should eat at this time, it's just complete bollocks, basically. Absolutely.

Absolutely. I'm glad you used that word, then I don't have to. But yeah, absolutely. And this is what I say to people. There is no have to about anything associated with food and eating. It is about what does your body need right now and your brain. If you avoid ultra-processed food as well, it makes it a hell of a lot easier to eat when you need to.

But if you eat a lot of ultra processed food, you're almost eating when the food's telling you to eat because it's sending signals. I'm making this up, but I think this is what's happening. You are making it up, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm making it up. When I eat ultra processed food.

When I eat ultra-processed food, I always want to eat loads more and more and more and more and more of it. And I cannot almost intuitively decide when I'm hungry. I just keep going. But if I eat protein, eggs, avocados, blah, blah, blah, I don't just keep eating it all day. It sustains me almost. I am genuinely making this up. There's no science behind what I just said. No, but actually there is science behind it, okay? Because if people Google the Van Thuniken brothers...

The Doctors. Oh, yeah, great. There is a podcast with the two of them talking about, I think it's Zander's. journey where because he did a program and it was called you know what are we feeding our children or something like that and it was about ultra processed foods and how it damages the brain Wow, yeah. And affects your brain function. Over the month, he put on a humongous amount of weight. He couldn't stop eating it.

It wasn't satisfying to him because it's not designed to be satisfying in any way. And it affected how he could focus. It affected his work. It affected everything for him. And they tested his brain. I think it was at Imperial College. And he'd lost something like 20% of his brain function. Don't quote me on that. But it was a huge amount. Wow, that's just... I mean, even if it's 5%, it's a lot, right? But what they were saying was...

And this was within a month. Right. So, you know, the whole focus of the program was what is this doing to your children? If this is doing it to me, what is it doing to your children? Well, then. Of course, he had to undo all of this stuff. And that in itself has been such an interesting journey with him because it's taken him... Two years. I mean, he lost the weight eventually. But undoing the damage to his brain, it still hasn't.

His brain is still damaged by that food. That is very worrying to hear that. It is. So I think they're amazing. I do. So his brother Chris, was it? He did The Doctor Who Gave Up Drugs. Did you watch that? Yeah. This whole episode about ADHD and children. And one of the solutions to it was actually meditation. All right. Yeah. Oh, you're back. Yeah.

I'll have to edit that. Yeah. I'll just say this again. I'll repeat what I was going to say. So yeah, I can hear some beeping actually. Is that on your side or my side? It's on my... I don't know where that's coming from. Has it stopped? Right, it's fine. Edit, edit, edit here. Edit, edit, yeah. So, yeah, Chris Van Tullican did a series called The Doctor Who Gave Up Drugs, which you've seen, haven't you?

And he, episode number two or something was about ADHD and children. And there was, I think like seven or eight children who were all taking Ritalin, I think it was. Or Adderall, I don't know, a mix of them.

And he said, he said basically, I don't think that the medication is the... right option for these kids at all and I want to do an experiment with them and the experiment was we need them to all learn meditation and there was this professor of psychiatry or something from a university in the Netherlands who had been pioneering

type of meditation for children with adhd and they went on this six week long program of uh learning meditation and the results were just profound like for anyone listening watch that it's on youtube for free to watch because it just proved that frankly that medication is not the only option as a lot of people are told unfortunately Absolutely. You know, I have never taken medication. My sister and I together, you know, have experienced a different journey.

So I was, you know, 20 odd years ago when I was diagnosed, which was before women and girls were diagnosed with ADHD. I was tested. And my psychiatrist said, I cannot. professionally recommend taking a pharmaceutical medication and i went well that's good because i wouldn't take it did he give you a reason yeah it clashed with He said it clashed with something else I was taking. Right. Because I have many heirs. And at the time, I also had a history of depression. Right.

and anxiety which had started after i gave birth to my son so um but because my father had experienced depression and anxiety. Back then, what they used to say was, oh, it's a chemical imbalance in your brain. It's genetic. You have to take the medication. That's it. That's all you've got. So, and I said, fair enough. So I said, I don't really want to take anything else. And so, but he suggested.

very high levels of epa fish oil oh yeah yeah which is you know the omega-3 part fatty acids and back then there was a charity that you could um get them from so they were lower cost and the money went towards research great um so that's what i did for a long time and i still do and i currently take krill fish oil because krill are teeny tiny so they are less likely to carry heavy metals because they have a short lifespan than some of the other fish

out there. So I still take those. There's a reason for that though, isn't there? Why we need to avoid those heavy metals. Yes. And so what I now do is I take some, take a couple of other brand new supplements, which are about. detoxifying our body from heavy metals really yeah heavy metals affect our brain yeah but they affect our whole body um and they are just these particular products, just getting some testimonials for children with ADHD.

Right. These have been developed by a doctor in America. And it was actually my holistic dentist who put me onto them. And so, and, you know. Because these things have multi-effects on our body. And so there's the brain. There's a lot of research being done around Alzheimer's. And my mum had Alzheimer's. And so it's kind of one of those things that is kind of at the back of my mind the whole time. When I forget words, I think, oh.

Is this coming? Is this coming? Is this happening? You know, is this dementia starting kind of a thing? So I take these products, but one of them is in particular.

is about balancing your serotonin and dopamine. Oh, really? Very interesting. What is that? So it's called Zero In. So I can give you the link for that. And what it does is it supports your body.

in producing what you need so it's not giving you it doesn't contain yeah like those hormones for example yeah an alphetamine doesn't contain the hormone but it's putting something into your body that triggers something yeah okay right but this is all natural yeah yeah and so you know you come to a point where i've come to a point where i don't have to take those things every day now because i take the the drops that detoxify my body and i do my best to eat as well as i can

The best quality I can afford. Right. Yeah. You know, I really take issue with some of these people on YouTube and, you know. linkedin and whatever they go yeah it has to be organic free-ranged grass-fed beef and everything else because in this day and age The people who can go down that route is getting smaller and smaller and smaller, the number of people. Everybody else has to deal with a different thing. So, you know, and again.

with my clients it's about looking at them as individuals yeah yeah you know what what they do where they live um you know how many chemicals they use in their house as well as the food, all of this stuff, and then getting to grips with the fact that this isn't a magic wand. Nothing changes overnight. And I know that... That's, you know, I always wanted it to happen like that, just instantly, right? Sadly, it doesn't do that. But one of the...

One of the issues with heavy metals is that your body stores them in fat. So if you are completely overloaded with environmental toxins, you will create a larger body to store it. Really? Yeah. So we take Omega 3 supplement every day. I take it immediately after. I take it at lunchtime because I take it immediately after I've eaten my porridge. So I've eaten quite a lot of food.

We take the, I think, is it algae? Or it's like a vegan one that we take. So is that a problem with heavy metals or not? Do you know? So what is the problem if it comes directly from a fish itself? Because side point here. I'm not a fan of Tony Robbins, but I did hear a story about him where he poisoned himself from eating too much fish. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Mercury, wasn't it? Yeah, mercury poisoning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, that's one of the reasons why I don't buy fresh tuna steak or anything like that in the supermarket anymore, because those are big fish. I've been around a long time. Yeah, right. That's my choice. I still like salmon, but I buy the best quality I can get. Because I want to live a healthy life. And I want to support my brain.

You know, I don't want to be one of these old women that I see around me, you know, who's bent over, can't think straight, doesn't do anything, can't hold a conversation. and has all of this stuff that's wrong with them. I don't want that. I want to be, I'm going to use the word again, in control. Yeah. But I'm in charge, right? I'm in charge of me.

And so for me, it's very important that I focus on that. Because I'm in charge of me. Nobody else is in charge of me. Nobody else can ever be in charge of me. If you think about it, so what you eat is an action. And that's about the only thing you can control. Yeah. You can control your action.

Yeah. You can't even control your thoughts. Nope. Thoughts will just go off and do whatever they want all the time. They will. Yeah. But your actions you can control. Yeah. Now, the outcome of those actions you may not be able to control, but at least you put the right inputs in there. Yes. Which is eating the right food. Yes. So, you know, when it comes to the ADHD brain, you know, and organizing food.

You know, one of the things I do is I will make a big pot of soup at the beginning of a week and then I will freeze some of it and get proper soup bags and everything in two portions. You get two portions out of a bag. So this is so much easier for a busy person to be able to follow these things that you're talking about here. Yeah. And then, you know, I now, winter, I use my slow cooker. Yeah. So first thing in the morning when I've got much more capacity in my brain, I'm...

full speed, energy, everything else, I put something in the slow cooker. And then I know that whatever happens... Whatever time my clients are or my meetings are or whatever happens, I have something there to eat in some form or another. And it actually doesn't matter how much of it I eat or not. So, like, on Sunday, no, Saturday. Because I bought a chicken in the supermarket, you know, organic free range thing in the reduced cabinet. I had to cook it. Yeah. I cooked it when it was cooked.

She didn't want anything to eat at that time. So I just covered it and let it cool and had some later. Yeah. I cook. large i got large portions of things because i'm used to doing that you know i don't have my children are actually older than you um now but you know i so i don't have my children at home anymore there's just me um But I'm used to cooking family meals. So I still cook family meals because then I only have to cook once or twice a week. That's good advice. Always have something.

And then if all else fails, I buy really nice quality goat's cheese because I really like goat's cheese. Yeah, me too. And I have some really nice beetroot crackers. Nice. And I'll have three of those with a slice off the barrel of goat cheese. Very good. You're making me so hungry right now. And I've not eaten yet. 10 past 11. But, you know, the thing is that the other thing they tell me is, oh, I'm boring because I eat the same thing all the time. Oh, you don't.

There's nothing wrong with that. If that is good food, you've prepared it. It satisfies you. What's wrong with that? So what's happening when your clients are taking this advice from you? So they've gone from eating chocolate that they've got in their drawer at work to what you've just been talking about. What happens? They tend to become smaller. Right. And they also, which they like, they also tend to feel calmer.

They have fairly nice, steady energy throughout the day. They accomplish more in their day than they used to. Very, yeah, very good. They feel happier. Yeah. And I know that's a very kind of, you know, happy is, you know, different things to different people, but. It's interesting because I was listening to Dr. Tim Spector the other day on a podcast. Yeah. So he was saying like, he was saying like, I've been a proper serious doctor my whole life and 15 years ago.

The thought of diet being able to solve serious medical problems was ridiculous. This is even just 15 years ago, not long ago. And then I started to come round to the idea. And then I was laughed at as some sort of quack that had no idea what he was talking about. And yet he was seeing firsthand how changes in diet were making massive improvements in people's lives, literally curing.

diseases that medication couldn't and in the past two or three years the science has actually caught up with his thinking and he's no longer considered a quack yeah and isn't that's amazing and it is quite yeah So I still think to this day, probably people listening right now will be thinking, how the hell can changing what I eat make a big difference in my life? But it really does because it's the fuel you use to survive. Yeah.

And it's the fuel your body needs in order to balance itself. If you think of your body as a mobile. Yeah. And the slightest thing will take it out of balance. And then you will create pain, disease, depression. anxiety, all this sort of stuff because there's an imbalance somewhere. Yeah. And we... We have been taught to search outside of ourselves for the next latest thing that's going to solve it. And actually, we have all the answers inside of us, plus food.

Yeah. So do you know Michael Pollan? Yeah. Do you know who he is? Yeah. So I can't remember which book this was in, but in one of his books about food, he said... He talked about ultra processed food. I think he used a Dorito as an example. He says the thing about Dorito is it looks like food, smells like food, it tastes like food, but it's not food.

And he goes on to explain that in more detail and everything. But of course, it's true. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's just lab-created, factory-produced stuff. Food-like substance, but that is actually not food. And if you consume that all the time, it's going to have, as we found out from the Van Tullican brothers, it's going to create enormous problems that may, in some cases, be very, very difficult to reverse. Exactly.

And it will create those problems really quickly. You know, the link between food and our brain function is massive. And that's without our gut function.

Yeah. And, you know, the link between our gut and our brain is now known. Yeah. It's like trillions and trillions of... cells enzymes whatever it is in your stomach isn't it and that's what you're actually feeding isn't it yeah eat yeah so that you need to look after them you do yeah and they're connected directly to your brain they are yeah it's fascinating well i am you know

I mean, obviously, compared to what I first learned when I went to university when I was 18, which is now 50 years ago, which sounds really scary, I have to say. all the nutrition and everything else that I learned about then. And when I look at how that has changed and progressed over the last 50 years. And, you know, I was always waiting for the science to catch up because I love quoting the science. You know, it's like I can back this up with science.

This is how your body works. I love that. And, you know, when people say to me, you know, are you going to retire? No, not anytime soon, because. absolutely love this stuff yeah you know i'm a great foodie i love food one of the the phrases i teach my clients to say is is this food worth me eating you know is the flavor nice when you teach people how to eat mindfully and really taste the food they eat

Oh, my goodness. So could you give us an example of that? There is an example, which is actually somebody else's. But this lady had a client. who only ate takeaways, right? Right. It was a man, but, and he would go to, you know, let's say McDo's. And then he would eat it in the car driving home. And he said, I can't give that up. She said, I'm not asking you to give it up. She said, I'm asking you to slightly change the eating of it.

In that he had to bring it home, put it on a plate, sit down and eat it mindfully. Right. So he had to cut it up with a knife and fork. And he had to chew it really well and taste it. Right, yeah, yeah. At which point he decided he didn't like it. Really? That's amazing. You know, an interesting thing about that. So if you get like a piece of rice.

Just like one grain of rice. Put it in your mouth and leave it there for a minute. It goes sweet. Have you ever tried that before? It's amazing, isn't it? I read about this. It was that the saliva, I think, in your mouth contains something. again, I don't know the technical details, that sort of releases something in the rice that makes it sweet, which proves that the digestion process happens before you even swallow. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

I learned that from yoga, like a yoga lesson that I had. Yeah. Because obviously, like eating in the way you've just described is exactly what you're taught in yoga. Yeah. It's all part of it. It's not just stretching. No. It's a way of life, yoga. Yes. Yeah. And it is, you know, I watch people eat.

I'm terrible. I'm a terrible people watcher. But, you know, when you go into a cafe or you're at a dinner or something like that, I watch people eat. And I remember being at a dinner a couple of Christmases. It must have been before COVID. And the man next to me absolutely inhaled his food. I mean, it went down so quickly, I can't tell you. And I went, crikey. I said, were you hungry? He said, I always eat like that.

Really? Oh. He said, my doctor tells me I shouldn't be eating this food because I'm a diabetic. Okay. He said, but I can't change. why exactly my question and and it was like he was just so resistant you know he just so closed off to it but And actually, there was a lady at a lunch last week. She inhaled her food as well. And I thought, oh, OK, did you enjoy that? Somebody else said, what does that taste like? She went, I don't really know.

No, because you inhaled your food. You didn't actually taste it, fully enjoy it, start that process of digestion in your mouth. which means that all of this stuff go into your digestive system which would then go oh for goodness sake here we go again we can't cope with all of this yeah

And that sort of person will then say, I have terrible tummy trouble. Yeah, I'm not really surprised. It's sort of a little bit like putting diesel in a petrol car, isn't it? It is. In many ways. That's like the ultra processed food versus real food. argument and then if you don't chew it properly even with ultra processed foods you're causing yourself infinite number of problems on top you are absolutely you are and and it is just you know

I mean, I've noticed my son has started doing that, inhaling his food. Really? Is he in a rush? Yes. That's why. He's in a rush. And then he goes, oh, okay, that's not, I'm still hungry. You're going to have some more. Doesn't actually need any more. If you just. if he waits a little bit longer yeah yeah yeah i've done that myself i'll admit that yeah yeah yeah so you know teaching my clients to eat mindfully is another revelation to them

So my son is 20 months old now. So I generally feed him while I'm feeding myself. Right. Sometimes I forget to eat slowly. Right. I'm trying to eat quickly so I can feed him. But it's a stupid excuse because I can easily eat slowly while I'm feeding him. It's just thinking about it. So it's like maybe 40.

40% of the time, I don't get it right. So it's not all bad. No, and it is about just giving yourself the time. And... just it's about creating a new habit and we all know you know um i love the book atomic habits yeah um I can't remember the author for the minute. James Clear. James Clear. And his thing is about attaching a new habit to an existing habit. Habit stacking, he calls it. Habit stacking, exactly.

And when I heard this, which was a few years ago now, I thought, oh, yes, that works for me. When I'm in the kitchen waiting for the kettle to boil or whatever, I turn the radio on, if there's some music, then I'm, you know, dancing around the kitchen and singing and moving and doing this sort of stuff. Because... You know, so many of us, we spend so many hours sitting down, sitting at our laptop, either at home or in an office. And that's when our body starts seizing up.

But also, if we're not up straight, that affects our digestion. Yeah. It affects everything. You know, we get hollowed. You know, we get our shoulders moved forward. You move your shoulders back. It helps your breathing. Start breathing from your belly. You know, doing all of these things every time I go in the kitchen. And so that creates the habit. Now the habit of... eating mindfully it took me a while but now i you know my family just go oh you're such a slow eater mum no i'm a mindful eater

Yeah, yeah. So that's really great advice. And I'm definitely going to be more mindful of my eating. So where can people learn more about you? So I am mostly on LinkedIn. Yeah. And I am on Facebook. It's not my place of choice, but I am there. Me neither. If people want to connect with me, just ping me a message. And if they want to work with you, what options do they have? Yeah, if they want to work with me, I have several options. So I have like an introductory foundation group.

that I run, which is about six weeks. And then I do a 12-week group, but I also do one-to-one work. Right. I keep it really simple because I'm an ADHD-er who doesn't get on with tech. I don't have a landing page. My website, I've not finished writing it. It's there, but it's not published. So just message me and we'll just set up a call.

And I like to find out a lot more about somebody before we start talking about how to work with me. I like to get to know them more. So I'm very chilled about it. Brilliant. Well, thank you so much. This has been great. Really enjoyed it. Well, I've really enjoyed it too. It's been lovely for her. Yeah, we're recording this on a Monday morning and it's really lovely. Yeah, it is, isn't it? Thank you.