Detangle with Bose Krishnamachari

As the founder of the Kochi Binale and as an artist himself , mr Bose has decades of experience curating art for beginners like most of us , and for the connoisseurs and patrons who are deeply in love with all things beautiful .

With a master's degree in fine arts from London , mr Bose is here to talk about the psychology that plays gently into the field of art and the role of the mind through the generations of art appreciation . Welcome , mr Bose , and thank you so much for joining me on Detangle today .

But tell me , as a student , as a young child , were you always drawn towards the arts ?

Like many other children I used to draw . But in copying early as every child they tried to copy . But I think we should discourage copying things . We should tell them to look at the actual and ask them to draw from their art making . That's more important . I feel the copying is never give them a kind of confidence .

Of course you can maybe look like things can be created .

It was not so good . Four or five years of my youth has gone into hospital life , but that's the time . In between period I used to do theater , I used to read a lot , try to know about music and also go on to join a private art school . That's the way it was gone .

Then again there was an award I received in 1985 from the Kerala Luridh Kala Academy , which was the highest order of award supposed to be . Then that moment one of my friends sent me a prospector from the Surjeej School of Art . That has changed my life . I came down to Mumbai since 1985 .

It's like Mumbai has given me everything in that sense , from that moment , captain working , I haven't received I mean I haven't got my admission in 1985 , but I stayed back in a place called Sakinaka . Sakinaka place was kind of small , so it's like 8 to 10 people working class . I lived with them and I used to do portraits of people .

Those period that was my salary but that money , given me so much confidence to continue my practice . Then next year I joined JJ . That was not so easy . Everything was kind of you had to play certain games , get into there . It's like regionalism was , in a kind of real , really taking over Mumbai .

There's kind of always art and artistic career and life has changed when the political changes happen in the country or liberalization happens in the country . All these moments things meant to change and it will change . The thinking of artists , practice and everything will change according to the social changes as well as politically shift .

But there's so much hard work , there is so much technique , there is so much learning involved and , like you said , so many influences come into an artist's life also .

That has also happened to me as well , and many other students and you know artists I have seen . Yeah , so definitely that historical awareness of art making and art learning has changed from time to time .

Some things are ever-changing , some things are never-changing .

No , you know like , even if you take internet , it's been invented . Many other technological developments have happened robotics and all that is happening . In our time , art is also adopted or you know , realized the importance of participating or collaborating with the science and technology .

So it's like from a chain , or you know print making to , or you know , rock painting to technology , ai work . You can see that everything will take its own time to accept it .

But you know like , earlier photography was accepted by the art world , but now it's like photography is one of the most important part of art making and similarly video art , or you know performance art , all that is . You know , time to time , I'm sure the new world is with more fluid , fluid in the sense .

You know like if something is static , something is permanent . It cannot be changed . You know like it's in architecture . You would say that the structure cannot be changed , but you can change the colors of the periphery you can always change , but the content is content also , you know , will change with the time .

I think it is important for an artist like I believe in fluid architecture , I believe in fluid art making as well , you know . I mean like a fluid way of looking at things . I mean really , really . You know , if I'm not obsessed by somebody's , obsessed by something , then you can say that it is done with it .

You know you won't be able to make anything after that . And you know obsession is also one of my way of you know , like as your psychology . You would know , once you're obsessed with something , you know if you're a lover , you start saying lies to your parents , your daughter , to anybody . You know it's like that kind of stuff .

Once you're obsessed with architecture or you know art or theater I am , you know . I wanted to say that you know we cannot work in silos . You know you cannot be just in silos to think about your only , about your , your liking . I think you need to know about other art forms as well . Then you can grow faster .

Yeah , so I think it is open , your mind is open , then you can , you know , look at other practices , like other people's work and things like that . You can also ask questions , once you are fluid . If you're stubborn about your belief , it is it's that's the death of it . You know , that's the kind of thing I would say .

Does art have a way of nudging its way into our lives ?

But I think you know , like artists , like human , you know , like suppose you say that you know your name , name to me , like , for example , if I'm meeting somebody , I'll ask what's your name and I get to know dr Kinjal , right , but I don't know if I really wanted to know about Kinjal .

I need to spend time with Kinjal to share thoughts , no , maybe travel , whatever . So I think you know lot is also like that . You know , if you want to really want to know that , you spend a little bit of time with that .

You know different galleries , gallery visits , exhibitions , visits , but also it is important that you know , you Edit in your mind like it's , like you have in . All the information are in internet and like you get to know from Google . Yeah , but that is . Einstein mentioned that Information is not knowledge . Knowledge you have to From the information .

You need to develop it and develop it . For that reason you nice . If you want to be an art collector or connoisseur , definitely you need to travel and see art fairs been earliest . Final is documentary exhibition spaces and also I think it is important to know which are the galleries are Representing good artwork .

There is good and bad , definitely you know how do you read it . It is like some of the galleries are only interested in the commercial aspect of it . Some of the art art galleries are very much interested in the politics of time and you know Exploring and you know finding new art forms and new art is perspective Would like to show by art galleries .

These are galleries you can make out . You know like how many art galleries are part of art fairs . Like the best art fair is known as Basel Basel in Basel in Switzerland .

And you know like Hong Kong Basel there is , you know recently they have started , couple of years ago , they have started in Paris and then freeze art fair in London , freeze New York , freeze Los Angeles , freeze , you know .

So all all these places that they have been , india got an art fair called India art fair and the second one recently started in Mumbai called Mumbai art Art fair . So these there are many verticals in art world also need to be known by . I mean , like really wanted to be a collector , really want to be an artist .

You need to know what are the kind of verticals part of her , or I wouldn't say vertical . You can say that in a beach , in the festoon , that kind of thing . So there are , you know , art institutions are part of it , art art cafes are part of it , auction houses are part of it .

In other museums , institutions , patrons , collectors , pedagogues , you know so many layers .

Know , like an artist himself or herself . You know , spend a lot of time with , for example , you know , nalini Malani in Mumbai , or in a time spent by with Sudeh Shanshati in Mumbai , or you know Adil Dodi , or there are a lot of young artists , you know . God to largest Studio spaces . Some people love to share their thoughts to some artists .

They don't like to share it . They are , they consider it as a kind of personal space . But I I would say that you really wanted to know about as a collector .

There was some wonderful people used to visit my studio , so they used to spend a lot of time Listening to your Thinking and you know as well as practice , what can , how they've been made and things like that . And and early years , you know , when I was studying in JJ School of Arts , our studio spaces , the artist studio spaces , were very small .

You know , like everybody used to work in smaller flags . Or you know , like if you wanted to sculpt something , you come , you know , give it to somebody else and get it in outside spaces right . And Now there are a few , few artists got really good spaces , art studio spaces . You can find it in Mumbai .

I think it is very important to have a little bit of time with these artists . And also , you know there is a Mumbai art week is happening , for example . You know , like Our , you know , thursday weekend , they call it Moments .

You know , for students , art lovers must visit to Gallery spaces , which gives you confidence , a little bit of more information for students . I would say I used to go to Jahangir Art Gallery and you know like in my time , that is , in the 80s , 80s onwards , there was only three small galleries existed in Mumbai and I'm talking about the professional spaces .

Like Gallery 7 was used to have a small place Above there was a bookshop called a strand bookshop . In Fort area there is a fort area . Another gallery was called Pandol and the long-est run gallery is called Kemol , used to have a very small place , a Mesa 9 space in Jahangir gallery itself and in Simroza it is far , I mean , like it's in Bridge County .

So these four places in Mumbai used to show artwork Early historically . Of course , there was a gallery existed in Malabar Hill . It was started by an artist called Balchabda , but I haven't seen those things . I spent a lot of time with Balchabda , you know .

These are the things you know , maybe given me so much confidence or awareness about what is happening in our schools or practices . I spent a lot of time with all artists . You know most of the artists who used to visit Melligopay , gipachel , prabhagarhvarve , prabhagakolte , lakshman Sesh , atul Dodia , anjadodya , sudarshan Shetty , sunil Gaudi .

You can take those period of time . You know , like now there are a lot of young generation of people .

Maybe you don't look at the names while you're buying it . You know , I think it is important you find your own taste . It will take time , but you can start from small . But you can take it in a different level . I was reading about Kiran Nadas , one of the biggest collector in India .

She is a collector at MFUSN and MFUSN also used to , I think , share lots of thoughts with her Later . You know now she got her own advices . There are advices are all experienced people , so that's also given a kind of and also she's an avid collector . She goes to each and every important shows , try to see everything , maximum looking at things .

I'm also the same way . I think in younger collectors also . I feel it is important to go and see quite a lot of . Sometimes the inductions play an important role . You don't need to necessarily understand everything or for not to work to buy it If you know everything , then there is no point in buying it .

That if an experienced gallery say that you know years of experience , you should take that advice . I used to go to Jahangirath Gallery often in all , like when I was a student years onwards , and I used to tell all my friends how not to put up a show is . I learned it from Jahangirath Gallery how not to put up .

The same way , I think you know collecting is also kind of editing , you know really , really your mind needs to be really observed about things . And then then you know there will be a kind of inductions comes in . Induction is a kind of process you know , like if you really gone through many process of art making or art learning , definitely that will work .

Psychologist like you , you've been experiencing , you know , having a lot of conversations . From conversations you definitely learn right .

Also , nobody used to tell me both you should go to JJ School of Art , or , or , you know , Cal Arts , or you know , or Art Institute of Chicago , goldsmith's College . Nobody used to tell me . Now everybody can Google it and see which one is the best .

But for those days , you know I found my path , that maybe I must have made a mistake , but you know I have no regrets , you know , because I found my path with lots of , lots of my people who are open to listen to me , or I had time with all great minds , you know , like whether it's filmmakers or theater people , or musicians or writers , artists .

All they have given me time to spend , so that you know I went to film , an Institute for Film Appreciation course , that one month . This was enlightening . So I think you know it's important that you know wherever you're born . I would say to people that you know move away from wherever you're born .

You move away at least for 200 kilometers or 100 kilometers from there and then you look back or check it out . You know you would definitely like your origin .

In psychology will say move 10 steps behind and then see the painting . You'll see a much clearer picture . So that's what I'm getting from you , that when you move away , your picture improves , definitely .

I think you know giving space is important and you know , like , when I like to go back to that obsessive nature of people , this is the same thing . I would tell people that you know , if you're obsessed with art , you won't make any kind of good art . You know you love art is fine .

You know , keep distance from whatever you love it and , as you said , you know , like it's like you keep 10 feet away from whatever you like . You know you can have a better view , whether it is a beautiful flower or a girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever . You need to have a little bit of space .

If you're obsessed with your , you know , even love , there won't be any kind of space . You won't invent anything new . You know , like a successful life , I find it . You know you can . You should be able to give surprises to your partner , or you should give surprises to your .

You know surrounding , then you , you are new every day , that kind of thing , how you can achieve it ? Maybe not . It's also important , I think you know surprises . Surprises not magic . Magic is you know a technique which you understand . Then that magic is gone . Surprise is like Eureka you are inventing every moment . You know every time .

So I don't know how to speak , but you know , like my , while I'm talking to you , dr Kinchel , I just improvise it , you know . So that improvisation is also comes through the practice of sharing . As you share it , you become light .

Let me get into a personal question now . So this is a question I asked all my podcast guests . So you know we all have a physical first aid box in the house some band-aid , some antiseptic . You're just for those minor cuts and bruises .

But I asked my guests that , supposing you were to keep a mental first aid box , supposing you've had a bad day and you want to come back and feel better , is there a box you can keep which immediately makes you happy ? And if you were to have such a box , what would you put in it ? You personally .

You know , in the sense it's important that whom you can really share and you know get your kind of right answer , but there is nothing called right . You know , always you , and I would say that I don't know answer for this .

Sometime you know like , you know when the chaos happens , you know how to make it in order . That's , that's a talent . You know an artist sent a madman . The difference is that . The difference is only the thing is the artist can channelize their mind , otherwise they are crazy . All the artists got too many ideas in .

Once you are in that chaos , you are lost , right ? So , as a psychologist would know better than me , but I believe that you know , anna , good , good artists , always , you know an artist , always they can make , they can channelize their problems Once and nothing is complete in a way , for an artist , nothing is a complete answer .

They always leave something behind , something to learn from , something to get in .

So if there is a phase that you're going through , if there is an emotional turmoil that you're going through , it's very important to take up proverbial 10 steps back , see it for what it is and give it a name .

This could be with the help of a doctor , it could be with the end , it could be with the help of a mental health professional , but unless you know what is happening to you , it's very difficult to deal with it . So , always try and understand what it is and then see what kind of treatment or help or intervention you need .

So people say that if a patient is very sick , they will not let him be on bed rest very long . He's too sick to be bedridden , he must walk . Similarly , it's too important to be obsessed about . Like you said , if you are close to something or someone , don't be obsessive , because then that become your shackles and you cannot let anything shackle you down .

You cannot let anything tie you down . This is the most Amazing way I have heard anybody describe art , because for me till now art was always about being obsessed , about being completely Into the process .

But the minute you take a step back , you've just opened so many avenues for yourself , for other artists , for other connoisseurs of art that it's okay to love something , but don't let that become your , you know , like the shackles that hold you back . So thank you for that thought , thank you for so many names that you have shared with us .

I'm sure a lot of people will go back to this podcast and , at peace , look up these names , find out where they want to go , start their art journey . I'm sure you've started a lot of art journeys in the last 30 minutes . It's amazing for what you're doing . You know , for this field it's such a niche field but such a beautiful field .

So thank you for enriching our lives with this , sir , and thank you so much for being on detangle with me today .