Phillip [00:00:07]:
He's a husky basketball player.
Anatoliy [00:00:08]:
I mean, yeah, but I don't know what you did that was so, like, above average.
Phillip [00:00:11]:
It seems like everything has to be, like, almost perfect for this thing to, like, be to your, like.
Anatoliy [00:00:16]:
Yeah, no, definitely not. Well, I signed up for the next season. It starts next week.
Mike [00:00:21]:
Okay.
Phillip [00:00:21]:
So are you setting yourself up for disaster? Essentially.
Anatoliy [00:00:25]:
Was that fun for you?
Eldar [00:00:27]:
Where are you trying to catch me?
Anatoliy [00:00:28]:
Because you won't be able to. No, but I'm asking you.
Eldar [00:00:30]:
No, I'm telling you. I'm asking you because we could skip this part. Because I could give you an answer based on what you're trying to go to. It'll be easier.
Anatoliy [00:00:36]:
My mind doesn't think that fast.
Eldar [00:00:38]:
Okay, cool.
Mike [00:00:43]:
I've got them. I've got them.
Eldar [00:00:51]:
So. Totally. You had a pretty interesting topic. What question would you ask or help people with in regards to this issue, if you. To generalize it?
Anatoliy [00:00:58]:
Yeah, I guess it may be, like.
Mike [00:01:00]:
I don't know.
Anatoliy [00:01:01]:
I guess in a way, like, if you have motivation for change, right? When you have the motivation for your change, you're ready to put all chips in during that moment. Sometimes you maybe have to pull them back and space out your bets a little bit smaller. Innuendos with betting and casinos.
Eldar [00:01:23]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:01:24]:
Sick.
Anatoliy [00:01:24]:
This is what you have to do to hook people.
Mike [00:01:27]:
You got to beg them.
Anatoliy [00:01:27]:
A little passive.
Phillip [00:01:29]:
These guys have been doing this for weeks. Although this is not today. This has been for weeks.
Eldar [00:01:33]:
My bad. Last week.
Phillip [00:01:34]:
Pizza corner.
Eldar [00:01:35]:
These two are the best marketers you ever fucking met.
Phillip [00:01:38]:
Every.
Eldar [00:01:41]:
If you put them on, like, to market Dennis rocks, it'll blow up overnight, bro. Overnight, Philip, why now?
Phillip [00:01:46]:
What's your reasoning behind?
Anatoliy [00:01:47]:
Yeah, I would almost say that you have to mandate Philip to go. Mandatory.
Eldar [00:01:51]:
Mandatory, right.
Mike [00:01:52]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:01:52]:
Like field trip. They know what's good for you, Philip.
Mike [00:01:54]:
It's true.
Eldar [00:01:57]:
I think, for you in this case, it's like. It's breeding. Open mindedness. You know what I mean? Open mindedness to their shenanigans because you disagree with them fundamentally about this nonsense that they do. But if you go with them, it'll give you an open mind or maybe.
Mike [00:02:13]:
A bursitis.
Eldar [00:02:17]:
But sometimes you have to take one for the team. You know what I'm saying? For the greater good.
Phillip [00:02:21]:
I just don't understand why we can't do the same thing in New York.
Mike [00:02:24]:
See, that's just selfish mindset. Saying, talking. What's my wallet? Also. Oh, okay.
Phillip [00:02:30]:
You know what I'm saying?
Mike [00:02:31]:
Okay.
Phillip [00:02:32]:
Like, for me to do the same thing, it's like, how much am I willing to spend to go to another.
Mike [00:02:37]:
City to do stuff that we can easily do in this city, not have to stay over?
Eldar [00:02:42]:
Yeah, but how much is it worth for you to kind of ride with a collective, you know what I'm saying?
Mike [00:02:48]:
Or.
Phillip [00:02:49]:
No, I get that part.
Eldar [00:02:50]:
That's the open mind.
Anatoliy [00:02:51]:
Certain things are priceless.
Eldar [00:02:53]:
Certain things are priceless.
Mike [00:02:54]:
That's true. It's true.
Eldar [00:02:56]:
Priceless. I guess everybody has their own way of doing things. Speaking of which, we're talking about the situation. Totally. You said, how do we harness motivation?
Anatoliy [00:03:08]:
Yeah, well, no, not harness motivation, but.
Eldar [00:03:12]:
Like, oh, how about use it properly?
Mike [00:03:15]:
Right?
Mike [00:03:15]:
See, my thing that you guys started saying, and it started made me think about something we talked about a while ago, this motivation thing. It could be a very dangerous thing.
Eldar [00:03:23]:
It could be very dangerous.
Mike [00:03:25]:
And that ties into. We talked about inspiration a few weeks ago, we were having a conversation about inspiration, and I think, oh, good point.
Eldar [00:03:31]:
We wanted to talk about, we want.
Mike [00:03:32]:
To talk about that. And he's saying certain things, and it's making me think about inspiration. Like, all of a sudden, he's motivated. Now, if you watch some kind of movie, Rocky, potentially six times in the last week, and now all of a sudden he wants to become fit, where is that motivation coming from? Is it rooted in truth? Is it rooted in ego? Is it rooted in some kind of pride? Where is the motivation? If it's not like, yo, actually, you know what? I'm tired of being like this because I want to live healthy, and these are my reasons, and it's not for me, probably I don't want to look a certain way to impress a girl, that would be wrong motivation. But if you want to hide behind it, or if you don't want to be honest, or if you don't know, you might not even know that you're being dishonest. You could say, well, healthier. Who's going to say, oh, healthy? No, that's a terrible reason. Error is going to say, yes.
Mike [00:04:18]:
But if you're hiding behind it, if you don't know what the root of it is, like, why'd you all of a sudden wanted to do it? It could be a dangerous thing.
Eldar [00:04:27]:
Why would somebody hide behind that? Why would somebody hide the reasoning in the first place?
Mike [00:04:31]:
Because they don't want other people to know that they actually are a vanity driven person.
Phillip [00:04:35]:
I don't think most people who do that know that.
Eldar [00:04:39]:
No, they don't know that.
Phillip [00:04:40]:
You say they're not conscious about that. If you doing that and you know that you're doing it, that's even more devious. I would say that the people that are doing this, but majority wouldn't know the percentage that know.
Eldar [00:04:53]:
In order to hide something, you have to know that you're hiding it.
Mike [00:04:55]:
Right.
Eldar [00:04:56]:
You're not going to go and hide something without knowing what you're hiding.
Phillip [00:05:00]:
No, I don't think that those people are going to. If you ask him straight up like, hey, why are you doing this?
Mike [00:05:07]:
He's not going to tell you the actual reason.
Phillip [00:05:09]:
I don't think that person. I don't think, first off, that person is going to probably tell you, well.
Eldar [00:05:12]:
Why wouldn't somebody just say, I want.
Mike [00:05:14]:
To look good, I want to attract more women.
Eldar [00:05:16]:
What's wrong with that?
Phillip [00:05:17]:
But let's say even if that person is doing it for that, do you think that they actually know the true reason of why they're doing it?
Eldar [00:05:24]:
I think so. I think they know why they want to get up and be motivated by Rocky. Let's just say ultimately, they want to look good, they want to feel good or whatever.
Mike [00:05:32]:
Right.
Mike [00:05:33]:
They like the image that Rocky is presented in and they want to align with that image. But in a way, when you're aligning with an image of another person, you kind of like devaluing your own self, your own individuality.
Eldar [00:05:44]:
But what if you don't have any individuality?
Mike [00:05:46]:
This guy has a fucking ton of individuality.
Eldar [00:05:49]:
No, I'm not arguing with him.
Anatoliy [00:05:50]:
Listen to a song off of Rocky for his album this morning.
Mike [00:05:54]:
You did?
Mike [00:05:55]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:05:55]:
Oh, you sick bastard.
Phillip [00:05:57]:
So if we're staying with the rocky example, then. So if you're watching, like, this is kind of like a rags to riches story of somebody who came into their own and has true confidence. So if you're just watching that movie and saying, like, oh, I want his body, you're not getting the real message of the movie.
Phillip [00:06:13]:
So if you're watching that and you're getting that type of inspiration, do you even know what you actually truly want?
Eldar [00:06:19]:
I think this is what Mike is. Yeah, exactly. You might be following what Rocky is, whatever standing for, but to depict what he actually been through in 2 hours of a movie, it's to be unfair what the fuck actually happens in real life.
Phillip [00:06:33]:
Yeah, exactly.
Eldar [00:06:34]:
But if you're drawing inspiration from it, but concluding that I need to do these actions, which is not going to lead you to Rocky's character. Like you're saying, guy came from nothing and he built himself up. But it took a very long time behind the scenes, let's just say for you to do that and think that you were just going to accomplish something is to put yourself in a very dangerous position of arrogance.
Phillip [00:06:56]:
So I would also agree it's dangerous.
Mike [00:06:58]:
Yeah, it is.
Eldar [00:06:59]:
So almost inspiration, if perceived by the viewer or then used, could be very dangerous.
Mike [00:07:05]:
Well, yeah. And I think that ties into inspiration and motivation there somehow. But I do know the link.
Eldar [00:07:12]:
But I do agree that it might take away from your own individuality. But I would say that if you don't have any individuality or you're not really empowered to think for yourself, then it's almost a natural trajectory for you to go and practice fucking climbing these fucking stairs.
Mike [00:07:26]:
But if you're a Dennis Rocks listener or participant, I would think that you're on the searching for your own individuality. Maybe not intentionally directly, but you're trying to find yourself.
Mike [00:07:39]:
Okay, sure.
Eldar [00:07:39]:
But that's a rare commodity right now.
Mike [00:07:42]:
Yeah, but in a general. Speaking of a person who wants to become empowered, right?
Mike [00:07:45]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:07:48]:
How do you get empowered? Like, to lose weight or to be healthy or, I don't know, do something, but based off of another person's example.
Mike [00:07:54]:
And then also to have it last? I don't know.
Phillip [00:07:58]:
I think losing weight in itself is not a good enough excuse to do anything.
Mike [00:08:01]:
Oh, yeah, is it? No.
Phillip [00:08:04]:
If you're close to death and you're close to dying, if you're saying I need to lose weight for my life, there's still that underlying thing that's making you overeat or do something given maybe some genetic deficiency or something like this, right?
Mike [00:08:20]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:08:20]:
Let's say if you're just overeating, whatever, you're not treating that underlying cause is the thing that's actually causing you to overeat. So what are you even talking about in that sense? I just think for me, if you're not tackling that thing or you're not open to tackling that thing that's causing you to do that, I think just saying I want to lose weight, to lose weight at any level, I don't think is a good enough thing to drive you forward and have something that's going to stick without needing discipline.
Eldar [00:08:48]:
See, the sticking part is also the interesting.
Anatoliy [00:08:51]:
Yeah, I don't think it's a big factor.
Phillip [00:08:53]:
Three, six month times. I've definitely experienced this. Six months.
Mike [00:08:56]:
Do this.
Mike [00:08:57]:
Okay.
Phillip [00:08:57]:
No drinking. Eat better. It definitely goes in waves, but it always comes back at some.
Eldar [00:09:02]:
Okay, how about this then? Okay, cool. So what we're talking about is really we can probably motivate ourselves to lose weight, to look good temporarily. Yes, but how do you lose weight but also develop character? That's the question.
Mike [00:09:19]:
I think that motivation and why it doesn't really last is because that motivation is driven by an egotistical person. In a way. I don't know. I'm trying to understand it because I just came up with this when you guys said something. I think that person who wants to make this change and he has the reasons that are not actually rooted in the truth and maybe like an idea of who they want to be. Like a vanity thing or to get revenge tour or revenge tour, right? Yeah, I think that's ego.
Eldar [00:09:50]:
Right.
Mike [00:09:51]:
So in a way, you're setting yourself up for failure. That's why it's very short lived. So part of doing something for it to last, I think it's part of it is humbling yourself and lining up with the truth for the reasons to do something.
Mike [00:10:10]:
Right? Yeah, but who thinks about it this way?
Mike [00:10:13]:
No, I just thought about it now. I never thought about it before, but I'm just saying. I'm just thinking, like, the reasons that people are making these changes, motivations, has.
Mike [00:10:23]:
Nothing to do with them.
Mike [00:10:24]:
They're living out some kind of egotistical fantasy about something that they want to be or somebody they want to be that they've seen on tv, or they envision themselves.
Eldar [00:10:37]:
Some kind of image.
Mike [00:10:38]:
Some kind of image. And the reason everybody, I think, will agree, like, hey, it's good to be healthy, right? To be in good shape, not to be obese or overweight.
Mike [00:10:47]:
Right.
Eldar [00:10:49]:
But it's also not good to be angry.
Mike [00:10:51]:
Yeah, it's also not good to be angry. And it's also not good not to be healthy, but not for yourself, for the wrong reasons.
Mike [00:11:00]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:11:01]:
It's like answering the question, like, okay, cool, I'm going to be the fittest person in the room now, but I don't want to be arrogant at the same time because of it.
Mike [00:11:09]:
Yeah. Right.
Eldar [00:11:11]:
It's almost. Then you're encompassing both the mind and the body.
Mike [00:11:15]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:11:16]:
You're doing it for the right reasons because you value health. But what does it say? Like, hey, I value health, right. It's totally saying, like, hey, you want to lose weight and you're doing it because you want to be healthy.
Mike [00:11:27]:
Right.
Mike [00:11:28]:
Or is that part of it or.
Mike [00:11:29]:
No? Well, yeah, what does it mean to be healthy?
Mike [00:11:33]:
How do you know that you're right about your understanding of what health is.
Mike [00:11:36]:
Yeah. Question. Right?
Mike [00:11:38]:
Like, are you a doctor? You consulted a doctor. Maybe for you, being healthy is actually being 20 pounds heavier than what you consider healthy for these reasons.
Anatoliy [00:11:49]:
No, I know, but I think that you can also endlessly speculate in all different kinds of things. Like, what if the doctor is wrong? What doctors know how far down?
Mike [00:11:57]:
Are you sure?
Mike [00:11:58]:
I mean, how far you want to go?
Anatoliy [00:12:00]:
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think there's different levels of, like, there's, like, being fit enough for, like, just daily regular types of, like, Phil.
Mike [00:12:16]:
What, like Phil?
Anatoliy [00:12:17]:
Yeah, like, he's healthy enough to, like.
Mike [00:12:19]:
He'S pretty skinny, but to live in.
Anatoliy [00:12:21]:
An apartment, for example. Yeah, but maybe if you throw in a house equation, he might not be fit enough.
Phillip [00:12:27]:
I wouldn't want a house.
Mike [00:12:29]:
Right.
Phillip [00:12:29]:
I wouldn't want all the responsibilities that come with.
Mike [00:12:31]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:12:32]:
I think that there is a level of fitness that you need, I think, in order to properly take care of certain things.
Mike [00:12:38]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:12:39]:
Where it's not so totaling or doesn't become like a chore, and it's maybe.
Mike [00:12:43]:
Something that you can enjoy. Yeah.
Mike [00:12:45]:
See, for me, I was thinking, what I'm thinking is, like, I've been overweight most of my life, right? But to me, that never stopped me from doing the things that usually, I guess, fat people don't do, right. I don't know if that's true or not, but I always buzzed around. I was always out and about. I had unlimited energy. I was always down to go do shit. So that's like, a different thing, right? That's not really the association of an overweight person who's kind of, like, lazy doesn't do shit. I think I was opposite. I was always doing shit, not smart shit.
Mike [00:13:22]:
Probably like, getting myself in trouble too, as well. But I think it's different, again, only because the weight did not stop me from the other desires that I had. They were much stronger than the weight that was holding me back from doing it, in a way.
Mike [00:13:37]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:13:38]:
But I also think in all those things, you couldn't do certain things well.
Mike [00:13:42]:
Yeah, I definitely couldn't go skydiving because there was 250 pound limit.
Anatoliy [00:13:47]:
You played basketball, but I'm sure you didn't play basketball in the way that you want to play basketball. You were just playing the abilities that you could play. Yeah, same for now.
Phillip [00:13:58]:
Yeah, but you're breaking down, like basketball. He's able to play basketball. You like basketball, so it's enough for you to be able to drive to the gym and actually do so. Like if the example is you're home and you want to do things at your house, you have to drive to your house and you're not doing it and you're sitting there. To me it's a lot bigger of a sign that you don't want to do that actual activity. Versus like Mike is driving to a place that's like 2030 minutes from his place. And okay, maybe he doesn't consider himself in basketball shape or whatever overall, but he's playing basketball because the like of basketball overtakes any type of, I don't know, any setback or anything that you would maybe associate with your situation versus his where it seems like the actual thing that you want to build yourself up for is not something that you enjoy and you're trying to build yourself up for something that you can probably hire out to do and your life.
Mike [00:14:55]:
Would probably be a lot more peaceful.
Phillip [00:14:57]:
Like for instance, taking care of your house or doing the gardening or something like that.
Mike [00:15:02]:
That's what it sounds like.
Phillip [00:15:03]:
Or to me you already would have done all these things regardless of your weight because you're not able to move. You're able to move around here. The way that you're describing it is.
Eldar [00:15:12]:
Like, have you ever seen him move during like twelve or 01:00 or.
Mike [00:15:15]:
No, like at the move. Well, when he needs to move. Why? It's bad?
Eldar [00:15:20]:
No, when he needs to move.
Mike [00:15:21]:
You've never seen him move that kind of way.
Eldar [00:15:23]:
You know what I'm saying? When he's gathering everybody for lunch.
Phillip [00:15:26]:
Yeah, I see him move very well throughout the course of the day. I'm picturing the way he's describing this is like if you go home, I'm picturing one of these people on one of those shows, like my 600 pound life or something where they can't move. If you're telling me you're so big that you can't move, Tolly is not that he moves. He can come to work, he moves around. We don't need special seating when we go on an aeroplane or anything like that. To me, the way he's describing it is there's like a big problem. I don't see a big problem. I see the problem in the type of activities that he's describing that he thinks that he needs.
Phillip [00:16:07]:
And maybe as a result, okay, you have a house. So okay, maybe you think that you need to do this, but I think we should explore the other possibilities that you can have a clean house, you can have your stuff done around the house without maybe having you do all of it. There's other services out there to do that.
Eldar [00:16:23]:
No, I think it's a very good point. These two points are very important. Like Mike said, hey, I'm overweight, but still, it's not holding me back from doing the things that I want to do.
Phillip [00:16:32]:
Yeah, that's a good example.
Eldar [00:16:34]:
Because the mindset, again, propels you and the weight follows. Follows through.
Mike [00:16:40]:
That's why I don't identify as fat, because it never stopped me from doing things that maybe fat people don't do.
Anatoliy [00:16:48]:
He's a husky basketball. Yeah, but I don't know what you.
Mike [00:16:50]:
Did that was so, like, above average.
Mike [00:16:53]:
No.
Phillip [00:16:53]:
Yeah, but he's not grading his ability to play basketball. He's saying that he's not considering himself. Good.
Anatoliy [00:17:02]:
Go and play.
Phillip [00:17:03]:
Right, exactly.
Mike [00:17:04]:
You're happy with your game or what.
Anatoliy [00:17:07]:
You can and can't.
Mike [00:17:08]:
Again, what he's saying, you care about the happiness with the game. He is also attached maybe to an image of how he used to be, and he's like, yeah, I can't move like that. So he's beating himself up.
Mike [00:17:19]:
Right.
Mike [00:17:19]:
He can't do the things that he used to do. And the attachment to the previous identity when he was skinnier, I think that.
Eldar [00:17:24]:
Definitely plays a big role.
Anatoliy [00:17:26]:
Yeah, but it's not like an attachment to identity. It's physically more fun. I mean, you know this. When you're not in shape, basketball, for you, is not as fun, right?
Mike [00:17:35]:
Yeah, sure.
Anatoliy [00:17:36]:
When you're in better shape, it's more.
Mike [00:17:38]:
But that's, again, your own, I think. Ego not accepting, like, hey, I'm not in shape right now, but this is all I can do, and that's fine. I used to be able to do more. When I was skinnier, I used to be able to do that more.
Anatoliy [00:17:50]:
No, I know. No, I understand that, but I don't understand why it can't just be physically not as fun. If you're not in as good shape, why is that a bad.
Eldar [00:18:03]:
No, because I don't think that the ego has adjusted. The ego has not adjusted.
Anatoliy [00:18:08]:
But why is it coming from an ego place? Why can it just be factual?
Eldar [00:18:11]:
Well, because the ego doesn't want to see things for what they are.
Anatoliy [00:18:13]:
No, but I'm asking you, why would it be wrong for it just to be.
Eldar [00:18:16]:
Because you're making a judgment call on something that's what is, and you're incorrect.
Anatoliy [00:18:21]:
So why is that person incorrect?
Eldar [00:18:23]:
Because if you're saying, hey, this is fucked up, or I feel bad or you're beating yourself.
Anatoliy [00:18:29]:
No. Saying that the game of basketball is not as fun if you're not in shape to a person that was once in shape, that is currently not.
Eldar [00:18:36]:
I don't think Mike disagrees only because of the outcome.
Anatoliy [00:18:41]:
It's not that it's wrong, but can the game itself physically not be as fun to play?
Eldar [00:18:45]:
Well, I'm not sure. It depends on the person.
Anatoliy [00:18:48]:
For example, if you're injured and you force yourself to play, do you have as much fun as if you're not injured and you're 100% healthy?
Eldar [00:18:53]:
Listen, I know what you're trying to say, but I'm telling you right now that if you change your mindset, you can change and have fun still.
Anatoliy [00:19:00]:
Well, sure, but I'm just saying that it's physically still not as fun.
Mike [00:19:04]:
Correct.
Mike [00:19:04]:
I don't think physically fun is different from grading physically, and fun is different.
Anatoliy [00:19:09]:
I'm not talking about performance.
Phillip [00:19:10]:
No, exactly.
Anatoliy [00:19:11]:
Fun and performance is different, but you're.
Phillip [00:19:13]:
Associating the fun with the performance, saying it's not as good because you can't perform as good because of your weight. He's saying that he understands this.
Mike [00:19:21]:
Right?
Phillip [00:19:22]:
He's saying that he's going there. He's not performing as well as he did when he was skinnier, but he's saying it's not negating the fun. He's still doing it.
Anatoliy [00:19:29]:
Well, he could still have fun because he's trying to make lemonade out of lemons. Right. But it's still not as fun as when you're in better shape.
Mike [00:19:36]:
Yeah, but again, I think there's a big attachment, the fun and winning. Can you say fun and performing a certain level? Just because I don't score all the points, it could still be fun. Think about what's his name? Einstein. He comes all the time. You think he comes not for fun? Why does he come?
Mike [00:19:56]:
Yeah, he doesn't do anything.
Mike [00:19:58]:
Everybody rips on him, but he keeps coming back.
Mike [00:20:01]:
Why?
Mike [00:20:03]:
He must be having fun. Well, he might have lost his mind, but he's coming. Like, he's coming for a know. Maybe he doesn't have the camaraderie where he's yo. Interacting with people because he works in the office all day and there's only time he gets to be around people.
Phillip [00:20:18]:
Mike, remember when we went to lifetime in New York and we played a pickup game one week and we're like, we beat these kids, then, like, we.
Mike [00:20:26]:
Wipe the floor with them.
Mike [00:20:26]:
Wipe the floor with.
Phillip [00:20:27]:
So, Mike, Mike. Then the next week was like, yo, do you want to play a pickup game again? And I was, no, no, I just want to shoot and warm up. And he's like, why? I was like, because if we play again and we lose, I'm going to get mad and then I know that that's going to carry over into the ice plunge and it's going to negate the whole reason why we came here, which is to relax and to have fun. Mike, regardless of winning or losing, he's going to have fun no matter what. If I lost, that's going to drag into my thing. So I have more the mentality to tolle where I would say my fun is attached to performance.
Mike [00:20:59]:
Correct.
Phillip [00:21:00]:
His fun is attached to just being there and actually just being on the court. It doesn't matter if he's performing really high or not. He's not saying that this is fun or not. Now, also, in the same breath, he's also saying that if he was skinnier, he can do more things, but he's not holding fun and attaching fun in his weight.
Anatoliy [00:21:16]:
Look, I can still have fun in the weight that I play now, but I can have more fun when I'm in better shape.
Mike [00:21:23]:
I don't understand what's wrong with that.
Phillip [00:21:25]:
You seem like you're having no fun.
Mike [00:21:26]:
With it, though, because then to me.
Phillip [00:21:29]:
You'D want to do it more.
Mike [00:21:30]:
Yeah, he hasn't been coming for a while.
Anatoliy [00:21:32]:
Yeah, but I'm saying when I came with all her to play, I mean, I still had fun. I didn't not have fun.
Eldar [00:21:38]:
Yeah, I thought you had more fun than when you were in better shape.
Anatoliy [00:21:46]:
Asking me or telling me.
Eldar [00:21:47]:
No, I'm telling you. That's how I felt observation wise, where me and you were messing around. Yeah, sure, we lost some games. We won a couple. But I think maybe when you have a realistic expectation about yourself, you kind of wiggle and maneuver yourself in such a way so you can have still fun.
Anatoliy [00:22:04]:
Well, no, I definitely still had fun.
Mike [00:22:06]:
You know what I'm saying?
Anatoliy [00:22:07]:
That I would have felt I would have had more fun if I could contribute more.
Eldar [00:22:11]:
Well, I'm not sure if you can predict.
Mike [00:22:13]:
Know, that's still associating fun with performance, right?
Eldar [00:22:16]:
No, because the attachment, hey, now I'm in better shape, I ought to perform. If I'm performing, then I'm having fun.
Phillip [00:22:23]:
Right?
Mike [00:22:23]:
Exactly.
Phillip [00:22:23]:
That's what I'm saying. Performance and fun is tied in his example. Like mine, where Mike, it's totally separate.
Eldar [00:22:29]:
I feel like I'm in good shape. I can still play and I can still win and stuff like that, but a lot of times I'll lose.
Phillip [00:22:35]:
But you're a very competitive, driven person.
Eldar [00:22:36]:
Still have fun, though. Yeah, I cannot.
Anatoliy [00:22:39]:
Yeah, but if you were injured and playing, how would you feel?
Mike [00:22:42]:
Hurt.
Anatoliy [00:22:42]:
Would you be having fun the same way as you were if you were pain free, maybe. No, but if you were pain free in comparison.
Eldar [00:22:49]:
Not if I have attachment to winning, which overrides my fun.
Mike [00:22:53]:
No.
Anatoliy [00:22:53]:
Well, no, in the way that you're playing now.
Eldar [00:22:55]:
Yeah, probably.
Mike [00:22:56]:
Sure.
Eldar [00:22:56]:
That's because maybe I don't have the same attachment as you do when it comes to winning.
Anatoliy [00:22:59]:
No, I know, but I'm saying, would you have just as much fun if.
Mike [00:23:02]:
You were playing hurt?
Eldar [00:23:04]:
Probably not, no.
Anatoliy [00:23:05]:
Well, that's how I view it.
Mike [00:23:07]:
Okay, but hurt is more so, like, you sprained your ankle.
Anatoliy [00:23:11]:
No, that's a hurt thing. You're not having fun.
Mike [00:23:15]:
No, but I don't think getting hurt. I got sideswiped by a guy like two years ago, and he hurt me. He fucked up my back.
Mike [00:23:24]:
Okay.
Mike [00:23:25]:
I didn't do that.
Mike [00:23:26]:
He did that. Okay.
Mike [00:23:28]:
Me being overweight, I did that. He didn't do that. Those are two things that could be out of our control. No, but somebody hits us and we can't land and then we're hurt.
Anatoliy [00:23:37]:
Yeah, but I think that you're understanding what I'm saying if you go and you play when you're already hurt, right?
Mike [00:23:43]:
Yeah, but why would you go and.
Mike [00:23:44]:
Play when you're hurt? Well, it's the same thing as, like.
Anatoliy [00:23:47]:
Why would you go play if you're not in shape to play a physical game?
Mike [00:23:50]:
Because you could be hurt. Like, somebody hurt me and my shit is fucked up.
Anatoliy [00:23:54]:
Yeah, but whose choice is it to go play?
Mike [00:23:56]:
The guy who hurt you or yours?
Mike [00:23:58]:
Yeah, but I'm not sure we're discussing that.
Anatoliy [00:24:01]:
Well, that's what I'm saying.
Mike [00:24:02]:
You're saying being injured and being overweight is the same thing?
Anatoliy [00:24:06]:
I'm saying that correlation.
Phillip [00:24:09]:
Yeah, he's trying to connect both.
Anatoliy [00:24:10]:
No, I'm saying that when it comes.
Phillip [00:24:11]:
To level of catching performance to fun, I guess.
Anatoliy [00:24:14]:
No, I'm saying that very sneaky.
Phillip [00:24:17]:
The sneaky little correlation he's trying to make.
Anatoliy [00:24:20]:
I'm saying that levels of fun to me, when it comes to playing basketball, the game of basketball, I definitely enjoy it more when I can physically do better.
Mike [00:24:38]:
Why?
Anatoliy [00:24:38]:
And if I was playing injured or if I was out of shape, shape, those would both contribute towards me having more less fun. But, like, if I'm in worse shape.
Eldar [00:24:57]:
How do you rate then? You being in physical shape, but your.
Mike [00:25:00]:
Shot is off for the day.
Anatoliy [00:25:02]:
How do I rate that?
Mike [00:25:04]:
Yeah, you must be having fun versus.
Phillip [00:25:07]:
Being out of shape and then playing and then playing and then being in shape and then just missing your shots.
Eldar [00:25:12]:
Are you not having fun?
Anatoliy [00:25:14]:
I mean, on a day where I'm completely off, I'm probably not having as much fun as the day.
Eldar [00:25:17]:
Okay, so, yeah, your shit is completely based on performance, then.
Mike [00:25:20]:
Based.
Anatoliy [00:25:21]:
I mean, you have just as fun no matter what kind of day it. No matter what. You have an equal level of fun every single time.
Eldar [00:25:27]:
The ability that I have on the court, despite of us losing or me missing, I could have a lot of.
Anatoliy [00:25:32]:
So you don't have fluctuations of up and down of fun. You have the same consistent fun every single time.
Eldar [00:25:37]:
I'm pretty good at what I do.
Mike [00:25:38]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:25:39]:
So, yes, no matter what you go.
Eldar [00:25:40]:
Every time you get, and when I'm injured, I usually don't come.
Anatoliy [00:25:44]:
Every time that you play basketball, you have the same exact experience of having the level of fun.
Eldar [00:25:48]:
I would go as far as. I'll probably have as much fun as I could.
Mike [00:25:50]:
Yeah, every single time the same.
Eldar [00:25:52]:
Probably, yeah. But if I was to measure it, I'm not 100% sure, but, yeah. Just to get an eyeball, a few, yeah.
Anatoliy [00:25:59]:
Really?
Mike [00:25:59]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:25:59]:
I definitely don't have that.
Mike [00:26:01]:
No, that way.
Anatoliy [00:26:02]:
And I have a hard time believing that you have the same exact. I'm sorry to hear that every single time.
Mike [00:26:07]:
But I think that's what we're trying to say is that there's another attachment that you have.
Mike [00:26:11]:
Correct.
Mike [00:26:12]:
You're coming there for different things than elders come in there and definitely meet.
Mike [00:26:17]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:26:17]:
But to me, you first said based on being in shape. Right. You said, hey, if I'm not in shape, I'm not going to have fun.
Mike [00:26:28]:
No. Okay. Then I said, I'm saying, okay, as much fun.
Eldar [00:26:34]:
Okay, as much fun.
Phillip [00:26:36]:
I got the record here.
Eldar [00:26:37]:
As much fun.
Mike [00:26:37]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:26:38]:
And I said, okay, cool. Now you're in shape, and now you could do whatever you want, but the only thing is off right now is your shot.
Mike [00:26:44]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:26:44]:
And you said, no, I'm not having fun.
Anatoliy [00:26:46]:
That one day that it's off.
Mike [00:26:48]:
Sure, yeah.
Anatoliy [00:26:48]:
I mean, I'm going to have fun. Not as much as I'm hitting all of my shots compared to none of my shots.
Mike [00:26:53]:
Yeah. You're even more saying like, I only have fun when I hit all my shots.
Anatoliy [00:26:57]:
No, I have more fun when I'm hitting all my.
Eldar [00:26:59]:
Sounds like the fun is attached to a very specific thing.
Mike [00:27:01]:
It's probably your ego.
Mike [00:27:03]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:27:05]:
You guys don't feel like to winning and proving something or proving to someone.
Anatoliy [00:27:11]:
You don't think that you have more fun when you're doing better versus doing worse.
Eldar [00:27:16]:
I'm going to tell you right now, and you probably won't believe this, that.
Mike [00:27:18]:
Sometimes when you win you actually lose. And sometimes when you lose you actually win. Sure. Okay.
Anatoliy [00:27:27]:
But I'm saying that you don't have more fun when your team is to you.
Eldar [00:27:32]:
Again.
Anatoliy [00:27:33]:
I know, but you're just giving motivational.
Mike [00:27:36]:
Say it again.
Anatoliy [00:27:37]:
Quote.
Mike [00:27:37]:
Say it again. Say it again.
Anatoliy [00:27:41]:
If you go and you play and you're just not doing well, I don't get how you could have because everything else remains the same.
Mike [00:27:52]:
It's an acceptance.
Phillip [00:27:53]:
Now, if you're talking about, okay, you.
Anatoliy [00:27:55]:
Went there, you hit all your shots, you yelled at all your teammates and cursed everybody out. Okay, I'm talking about.
Eldar [00:28:02]:
I'm giving you an example that there's times.
Mike [00:28:04]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:28:04]:
Well, yes. I'm trying to keep the variables the same. I'm talking about.
Eldar [00:28:10]:
There's a lot of variables. Totally. That's the thing. And I think that fun comprises of a lot of those variables that you want to just negate and say, like, okay, performance based and winning.
Anatoliy [00:28:18]:
Well, that's why I have a hard time believing that you have the same level of fun every time. Because there are so many different variables.
Eldar [00:28:23]:
Because I have the ability to extract fun in many different variables and you don't. This is a clear distinction.
Anatoliy [00:28:28]:
Yeah, but you can't tell me that it's the same level every single time.
Eldar [00:28:30]:
It's probably more sometimes when I underperform because I then tap in into something else.
Mike [00:28:35]:
Yes, I agree.
Eldar [00:28:38]:
I cannot shoot, but I have James on my team.
Mike [00:28:41]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:28:42]:
You know how much fun I'm going to have by having James somehow make his shots in his face and beat him because I know how pissed he is.
Mike [00:28:51]:
Yeah, that was a lot of fun.
Eldar [00:28:53]:
I'm having fun at somebody else's expense and I have that ability to do that on the court with many different things. Of course, you know what I'm saying? With many different people. Now, that's not to compare to what he's experiencing. That is your experience.
Mike [00:29:08]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:29:10]:
Personally, I've been hurt, I've been out of shape, I've been hungover playing ball. I've been all that stuff. And I'm telling you that I know how to extract certain things and still be.
Anatoliy [00:29:19]:
Yeah, but I can also see that when you come and you play and you came early, like you didn't have your breakfast or you were hungover or whatever. I don't see how that day that you had just as much fun as a day when you had great sleep, you felt good. I can't believe that. It doesn't sound right. If you're telling me that all of those times when you overplayed and you didn't feel good, like doing that or you played just the right amount of time or that you came in with good breakfast, good sleep, felt 100% or you didn't, you were hungover. If you tell me everything is the same no matter what, then God bless America.
Eldar [00:30:05]:
That time when I did have good.
Mike [00:30:06]:
Sleep and everything was good, I sprained my ankle.
Eldar [00:30:09]:
I had tons of fun with that.
Phillip [00:30:11]:
So to me, isn't it easy to then say, like, based off of Tolly's current mindset, it's very easy to say that we understand why he doesn't enjoy playing basketball 100%. To me it's very obvious, yes, this.
Anatoliy [00:30:24]:
Has been the case, so it doesn't.
Phillip [00:30:25]:
Have to be a conversation. We understand based off of how you're interpreting the game of basketball versus how they're interpreting the basketball, it makes sense that without me even going to the court and understanding how you guys play, that the way that they extract fun and the way that you extract fun is understandable. So until you are in certain shape, you are not going to extract certain fun. But even when you do get in shape and you're missing shots, you're still not going to have fun.
Eldar [00:30:50]:
I would say basketball. That's just one example. You can make his shots, but if you have a gremlin like Julius on your team and he's in your ear constantly, you might still not have fun.
Anatoliy [00:31:00]:
Yeah, there's a lot of variables.
Eldar [00:31:01]:
I'm just giving him one example.
Anatoliy [00:31:03]:
There's a lot of variables full of fun. There's also times where I could be the sickest shape ever. And then you go there and, for example, you can get injured. They could pick certain teams and then you, for example, get on a team that's like not so great and then you lose. You might have to wait three games to play again, then you're already cold, you didn't warm up, and then you get on again and then you leave in two games versus. There's been times where we get there, we'll win seven, eight times in a row, and then we'll be able to stay on and play so many times.
Mike [00:31:33]:
And we have good team chemistry.
Anatoliy [00:31:36]:
We're doing well. Those, to me are like awesome days of playing. And then there's times I go there, I warm up. You get caught on, like, a not so great team.
Mike [00:31:46]:
I mean, you make the best of.
Anatoliy [00:31:48]:
It, but it's definitely not as good as when we're firing away on all cylinders. But both of those situations happen. Sometimes it's great, sometimes it's good. Sometimes I leave there. The experience of playing that day was kind of dark shit.
Phillip [00:32:04]:
You seem like you're very reliant on the things that are happening that are outside of your control, external, that are allowing you to then say, this is either going to be low, medium, or high in terms of a good or a bad experience. So what I'm hearing is that these guys are extracting something deeper from the game of basketball that has nothing to do with the actual.
Mike [00:32:27]:
No, Mike has the same thing.
Anatoliy [00:32:28]:
And if he doesn't say that he's lying, why does he keep going?
Phillip [00:32:32]:
Consistent, though.
Anatoliy [00:32:34]:
What do you mean consistent?
Phillip [00:32:35]:
Why does he like to always play basketball, though?
Mike [00:32:37]:
He always plays basketball to my knowledge.
Phillip [00:32:40]:
Like, every time he brings me, which is just every other week, but he's saying he goes to play basketball at least once a week, to my knowledge. So, I mean, to me, if you keep coming back and there's some type of consistency to it without forcing him, we're not saying, hey, Mike, I mean.
Anatoliy [00:32:52]:
This is the same thing. He knows when he ends up on a team with nobody passing the ball and they're just like, hogging and stuff like that, or a team he's next for and a team is terrible, he'll let someone else go instead of him so he can wait a game. Or maybe he sees that Omnex or Eldar's next and he wants to play with him. He's going to wait a game to play with him.
Eldar [00:33:10]:
Why?
Anatoliy [00:33:10]:
Because experience of playing with Eldar will be better than him going on the random team. And if he tells me that he doesn't do this, then I would say he's lying.
Phillip [00:33:19]:
Yeah, that seems like one experience. Like, within the whole experience, it seems like as a whole.
Anatoliy [00:33:23]:
No, there's a lot of all these different nuances.
Phillip [00:33:27]:
I'm not saying there's not.
Anatoliy [00:33:28]:
To me, I think probably Eldar is better at having some levels of fun with the different situation, with the different situation with the different situations that he is in. But I don't believe that he has the same level of fun in every single situation.
Eldar [00:33:46]:
Regardless, every time I go, I surprise myself and oversee the level of fun I can have.
Mike [00:33:51]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:33:52]:
So to me, it sounds like you're very easily swayed and easily irritable based off of something that very small that's going to happen of a team or a line or something else. It seems like everything has to be almost perfect for this thing to be to your, like.
Anatoliy [00:34:10]:
Yeah, no, definitely not.
Phillip [00:34:11]:
But that's what it sounds like to me.
Anatoliy [00:34:13]:
Well, you have to ask me specific questions, but you're going off a testimony of an individual saying that no matter what, he has the same experience, regardless of.
Phillip [00:34:22]:
Yeah, that's what I am. That's one example. And then another example is Mike.
Anatoliy [00:34:27]:
And what's example with Mike?
Phillip [00:34:28]:
My example with Mike is that I've played basketball with him multiple times and that I've seen him say, you're also.
Anatoliy [00:34:35]:
Your testimony with Mike is that he's a great defender and a hustler.
Phillip [00:34:39]:
I did see this.
Anatoliy [00:34:40]:
Yeah, it's complete opposite.
Phillip [00:34:42]:
Well, okay, so that's me, like, identifying him as a basketball player.
Anatoliy [00:34:45]:
That's what I'm saying. I think you might have a bad eye for things like this.
Mike [00:34:48]:
Yeah, but.
Phillip [00:34:49]:
Okay, if Mike is telling me, first of all, we're always playing basketball, we're always warming up, we played a game, and then he wanted to play another one the next week. I said I didn't want to play the game because I'm being competitive and that if we lost, it's going to ruin my experience. To me, he doesn't care whether we win or lose. He just wanted to play the game.
Anatoliy [00:35:05]:
Sometimes he doesn't care about that, but there's plenty of times where he does.
Phillip [00:35:08]:
Okay, so I haven't seen this. So to me, I look at, like, when I go with him, which is my personal experience, I can see it. And then if he's telling me during the week, he's at least going to the gym once or twice a week to play basketball, I can only deduce that this guy likes to play basketball no matter what. No matter what.
Mike [00:35:26]:
I never cared about winning or losing for a very long time.
Mike [00:35:30]:
Right.
Mike [00:35:31]:
But then I got into very, very good shape, and I became very competitive, which I had never been competitive my whole life for a specific reason. And I don't think we ever talked about this, but I had a traumatic experience in competition when I was, like, 13 years old.
Mike [00:35:43]:
Okay.
Mike [00:35:44]:
And after that, I was turned off from competition because I didn't know how to handle it. I lost, like, a big tournament in tennis, and it upset me. And my dad didn't explain to me, like, it's okay. He didn't really like. And I kind of just like a little kid. I closed up and I was like, yo, I don't want to compete. So I always played basketball just like, yo, just to play, because I like the game. And if I win or lose, it didn't matter to me for a very long time.
Mike [00:36:05]:
Like, I don't know, 20 years, probably. And then I got into really good shape, and I definitely became more competitive. I definitely became more frustrated at certain things, but obviously, I didn't like that about myself. But it's like I was at, like, 35 years old, learning how to be competitive, but not be a dickhead, because I didn't learn it when I was young. So I would get mad. I would get mad at the refs because they were doing a bad job, because I never learned that when I was young how to properly understand, like, hey, they're fucking refs. They don't know what they're doing. I'm expecting them to do right, to see everything, like, hey, but, yeah, no, I understand what you're saying, but I definitely have a longer history of not caring.
Phillip [00:36:48]:
Yeah, see, I've seen you at the game. Like, when I actually went to the game, I saw you say, I don't even want to go into the game because the refs are like, how they're calling the game.
Mike [00:36:56]:
I was already upset, and I didn't want to engage.
Phillip [00:36:58]:
So that's the point. I can see you upset at the game, at certain variables, but to me, you still go back to still play. So I can see Mike in situations where he is saying, this is not a perfect situation. I don't like this situation. But for me, he has to be looking at something deeper within the game of basketball that he's extracting from it that keeps him wanting to go back.
Anatoliy [00:37:18]:
Yeah, but I did the same thing.
Phillip [00:37:20]:
But you're not going as much supposedly.
Anatoliy [00:37:22]:
Well, I mean, I haven't gone as much in the last, like, two months, but before that, I went all the time.
Phillip [00:37:27]:
Right. So why have you not gone recently?
Anatoliy [00:37:29]:
Well, just because I skipped out on the most recent season.
Phillip [00:37:34]:
So you're saying you can have a similar mindset to Mike?
Anatoliy [00:37:37]:
I mean, I've been playing for, like, 20 plus years.
Mike [00:37:40]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:37:41]:
Overall, more times in those 20 years than Mike.
Phillip [00:37:45]:
Okay, but something has changed recently, or you see yourself going back regardless of whether.
Anatoliy [00:37:49]:
Well, I signed up for the next season. That starts next week.
Phillip [00:37:52]:
Okay, so are you setting yourself up for disaster?
Mike [00:37:56]:
Essentially? No.
Anatoliy [00:37:59]:
Because I'm going to have fun no matter what.
Mike [00:38:00]:
Right.
Eldar [00:38:01]:
Yeah, if you know how that's according.
Anatoliy [00:38:04]:
To Eldar, though.
Mike [00:38:09]:
I'm going to have.
Anatoliy [00:38:09]:
To follow suit with Eldar.
Phillip [00:38:10]:
But based off of what he's saying, should he even sign up for basketball? That's what I'm saying.
Anatoliy [00:38:14]:
Yeah, but also, it's like he also did it. I also don't believe what Eldar is saying.
Mike [00:38:18]:
See.
Anatoliy [00:38:21]:
To me, it's egotistical to say that to begin with, that there's no fluctuation at all in how an individual enjoys himself.
Eldar [00:38:30]:
And not only that, it increases to get higher every time the bar gets higher.
Anatoliy [00:38:33]:
Yeah. That's completely ridiculous.
Phillip [00:38:35]:
He said when he loses, he's finding joy or he's finding these things.
Anatoliy [00:38:40]:
I can't see it. I don't see it from an outside looking in. If that's how he feels internally for real, I think, great, I go play.
Mike [00:38:48]:
Basketball to have fun, but that's the main difference.
Phillip [00:38:54]:
It seems like he's going to have fun.
Anatoliy [00:38:55]:
You seem like you're going to have.
Phillip [00:38:56]:
You seem like you're going to make shots, Philip.
Eldar [00:38:59]:
It also happens to be that I'm good.
Mike [00:39:01]:
Right.
Eldar [00:39:01]:
So I also win, but I also lose.
Mike [00:39:03]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:39:03]:
You know what I'm saying? But I definitely have fun. And the reason why I go is.
Mike [00:39:07]:
Because I have fun.
Phillip [00:39:09]:
See, to me, you're a highly competitive guy, so for you to say that it's not winning or losing, and you are extracting fun from that, the reason.
Eldar [00:39:15]:
Why over years, maybe when I was younger, I had certain feelings about it and stuff like that. Right now, I see things for what they are.
Mike [00:39:22]:
Right? You know what I mean?
Eldar [00:39:24]:
So seeing things for what they are helps with, right? Like, oh, a loss or whatever. Like, oh, no, there's a reason why we fucking lost. You know what I mean? It's clear. Bad shooting, bad rebounding, wrong teammates, whatever, you know what I'm saying?
Mike [00:39:37]:
I understand that putting my eggs in.
Eldar [00:39:39]:
One basket of winning or losing to have fun is the worst thing you can do.
Anatoliy [00:39:44]:
And I agree with that.
Eldar [00:39:45]:
You know what I'm saying? I've swallowed this a long time ago.
Anatoliy [00:39:48]:
And I 100% agree with that.
Eldar [00:39:50]:
So because of that.
Phillip [00:39:50]:
Wait, but how can he agree with that?
Eldar [00:39:52]:
I don't know what he's saying.
Mike [00:39:53]:
He can agree with it.
Mike [00:39:54]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:39:54]:
He can agree. He doesn't know how to practice it. Maybe that's a different story. So therefore I do things in the game to still have fun. So I still feel like I've won.
Mike [00:40:04]:
Even though I lost.
Eldar [00:40:05]:
You know what I'm saying?
Mike [00:40:07]:
I get that. That's it.
Anatoliy [00:40:08]:
I mean, I just went with elder on Wednesday. Right. I chose to guard, for example, someone who was offensively doing really well that day. And sometimes I stopped it. Most of the times not.
Mike [00:40:21]:
I probably hit, like, I don't know.
Anatoliy [00:40:23]:
20% of my shots. I couldn't run every single play. Still had fun.
Eldar [00:40:29]:
Yeah. But because of the mindset, because, see.
Phillip [00:40:31]:
The way that you described it, again.
Eldar [00:40:33]:
That was the mindset that you went in with.
Phillip [00:40:35]:
You talked about just, like, guarding a guy. You talked about making a shot, whatever the percentage is, to me, you're very set on your performance in the game. When Elder describes the game, he's not describing the performance of himself. He's saying that, yeah. Winning or losing is there. He might have been attached to it before, but he's saying that even if he's off one day, he's getting joy off of seeing another guy take down the other teammate. That, to me, has nothing to do with himself. And to me, it's more about the game and something deeper that he's tapping into.
Eldar [00:41:06]:
I can have a lot of fun with one bad call, for example, from the other team.
Mike [00:41:10]:
Right.
Eldar [00:41:10]:
I can have tremendous amount of fun.
Mike [00:41:12]:
Yeah. You know what I'm saying?
Eldar [00:41:14]:
This does not require for me to be on top shape in order. For me. In order to then say I had fun.
Anatoliy [00:41:19]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:41:20]:
That's my only argument here.
Mike [00:41:21]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:41:22]:
I just feel like in this case, you're, like, hanging on to something I'm saying, and no matter what I say, you're resorting back.
Phillip [00:41:28]:
No, because every time you're describing the game again, it's, like, reiterating.
Anatoliy [00:41:33]:
I'm just describing it more in detail. Yeah, he's just saying. He's going there. He's having fun. He's not even talking about what's happening, but I'm talking about in detail of what's happening. So you're saying. Well, you're talking about shots and stuff like that. I could just tell you, I went this day, not fun.
Anatoliy [00:41:49]:
This day fun or like, yeah, I went fun. I could just not say anything and not give you any details. And then I wouldn't bring any specific examples. Then you wouldn't have something to latch onto.
Phillip [00:41:59]:
No, but his examples, he is giving examples of being there and what's happening, and he's not describing his own individual performance.
Mike [00:42:08]:
Okay.
Anatoliy [00:42:08]:
Yeah, but I can also have fun when it comes to also, someone makes a bad call, and then you troll him the whole game for it.
Phillip [00:42:13]:
But that's the first time you just said that.
Anatoliy [00:42:15]:
Yes, but you don't know me, Mike, or Eldar. When it comes to basketball at all. Yet you're very fast to jump to conclusions as to what is.
Mike [00:42:24]:
Well, you guys did have a conversation on the well not too long ago about basketball.
Phillip [00:42:28]:
I did. Around Mike, and I understand that he goes to play a lot. We did have a pod about it.
Anatoliy [00:42:33]:
But let's say so what do you mean he goes to play a lot? What is a lot?
Phillip [00:42:36]:
Unless Mike's lying to me.
Anatoliy [00:42:38]:
Well, what is a lot?
Phillip [00:42:39]:
At least once or twice a week.
Anatoliy [00:42:40]:
That's a lot. Yeah. I don't play at all.
Phillip [00:42:43]:
I don't play any basketball. Okay, so if somebody's playing something once or twice a.
Anatoliy [00:42:47]:
Well, then we have different definitions.
Phillip [00:42:50]:
That's a lot to me.
Mike [00:42:50]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:42:50]:
To me, once a week is not a. It's like, to me, once a week, it's one out of seven.
Eldar [00:42:57]:
But it could be consistent.
Mike [00:42:58]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:42:58]:
So Mike, to me, you could say.
Anatoliy [00:43:01]:
That he goes consistently once a week. Yes. But again, for example, those arches that go to the gym, if they heard that Mike goes once a week, to them, they'd be like, yo, he never comes. They go every four or five.
Mike [00:43:16]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:43:17]:
I would say if you're playing basketball a lot, you're probably talking about. Yeah, probably like four plus days a.
Mike [00:43:23]:
Week, then you're like a professional.
Phillip [00:43:25]:
You're getting paid to go play. That's crazy.
Anatoliy [00:43:28]:
What do you mean? There are people that go every day.
Phillip [00:43:30]:
Okay, but you're coming from me who's not playing basketball.
Eldar [00:43:33]:
So if I hear you coming from people that no longer take basketball as seriously as they used to, like at least me, maybe before I would do four or five, but physically and time wise, for me, twice a week is a lot. For him, it's four or five. So we define it differently. For me, he sees the game differently. I see it differently.
Phillip [00:43:50]:
Oh, yeah. I see it as looking from the outside of somebody who doesn't play, who goes to just shoot around with Mike every other week. So for me, somebody who's going to go play a game on top of that.
Anatoliy [00:43:59]:
So if Mike plays a lot and you shoot around every other week, then you'd play often?
Phillip [00:44:05]:
I'm not playing a game. I'm just going to shoot.
Mike [00:44:08]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:44:08]:
So you shoot around often. Like, to me, if you use that word, that'll be, like, misusing it. I would be like, Philip, that's ridiculous.
Phillip [00:44:15]:
Often, if I said that if you're going a lot, which is twice a week, which is eight times a month, and I'm going four times, then, okay, yeah, you can say that. I go shoot around fairly often.
Mike [00:44:26]:
Sure.
Anatoliy [00:44:27]:
Yeah. I would say that would be a criminal way to use that word.
Mike [00:44:31]:
Okay.
Anatoliy [00:44:31]:
I would say that you might go occasionally.
Mike [00:44:34]:
Okay.
Phillip [00:44:34]:
But the point is, Mike is going to play basketball. Doesn't matter if he's performing good or not. He's admitting that he could perform better before he was more competitive at a certain weight, but he's still going back.
Eldar [00:44:46]:
Why is he going back?
Phillip [00:44:47]:
Why does he keep going back? That, to me is like, yeah, but.
Mike [00:44:51]:
I go back as well.
Phillip [00:44:53]:
But you seem like, yeah, but you're.
Eldar [00:44:55]:
The one who's attaching it to performance. Totally. That's the only difference. He's saying, no, Mike is not in shape. But he goes back.
Mike [00:45:00]:
Right.
Eldar [00:45:01]:
Because he's still having fun. If he wasn't attaching it to fun, if it was performance based like you said, he shouldn't be going because he's overweight. He can't run, for example. You know what I'm saying?
Mike [00:45:10]:
But.
Eldar [00:45:11]:
Because he still does. It's a display.
Anatoliy [00:45:12]:
Yeah, but I know that he has more fun when he's in better shape. If he tells me no, what do you say?
Mike [00:45:21]:
It's hard to say because.
Mike [00:45:23]:
No.
Eldar [00:45:23]:
Because I'm going to tell you right now how this works. I'm going to disprove this theory. If he goes and loses more weight, but then does not have the ability to compete. Mature individual.
Anatoliy [00:45:34]:
Wait, then we're talking about different variables. Variables we have to keep.
Eldar [00:45:37]:
We're talking about Mike, my man. No, Mike just fucking gave his testimony and said, I do not know how to compete. I'm a 35 year old man.
Anatoliy [00:45:45]:
When we're talking about being in shape or not, we can't say, okay, one guy's in shape, but is being a rat versus the other guy is in shape and being nice.
Eldar [00:45:52]:
Those are the things that.
Anatoliy [00:45:55]:
Yes, but I'm talking about.
Mike [00:45:57]:
Those are variables.
Anatoliy [00:45:57]:
When you're comparing that, you have to only single out those two variables in shape.
Eldar [00:46:02]:
But that's not what happens. Because if he's more in shape, he becomes more competitive. If he's more competitive, he might be more emotional. If he's more emotional, that equals to.
Anatoliy [00:46:12]:
Then you can't compare anything because there's.
Eldar [00:46:14]:
If we're talking about Mike specifically.
Anatoliy [00:46:16]:
No, but I'm talking about Mike in shape with, you have to say Mike in shape. All same variables. Mike out of shape. All same variables. Or you don't make a comparison because.
Eldar [00:46:26]:
You'Re the one who's making an unfair comparison here.
Anatoliy [00:46:29]:
How am I making an unfair comparison?
Eldar [00:46:31]:
Because you're giving him attributes that don't then align to reality.
Mike [00:46:34]:
Like what?
Eldar [00:46:35]:
You're saying he's in shape, therefore he has more fun.
Mike [00:46:38]:
How?
Anatoliy [00:46:39]:
I'm saying that if you keep everything the same and he's in better shape.
Eldar [00:46:43]:
But how do you keep everything the same? How is that possible, bro?
Anatoliy [00:46:45]:
But why is that?
Eldar [00:46:46]:
In which world do you keep everything the same? That, okay, this, then my attitude is going to be the same. Oh, everything's going to be the same.
Mike [00:46:51]:
That's never exactly what didn't happen. I became shaven.
Phillip [00:46:54]:
I became worse, the opposite.
Mike [00:46:56]:
I ruined the game for myself in a way.
Anatoliy [00:46:59]:
You can't compare anything unless you isolate these kinds of things, because then it's going to be like a shit show.
Eldar [00:47:04]:
What are you talking about?
Phillip [00:47:05]:
But it's all based off of his individual experience. He's giving you data saying that he.
Anatoliy [00:47:10]:
Was less weight, the subject.
Phillip [00:47:12]:
And, yeah, he was less weight, and.
Anatoliy [00:47:13]:
He was okay, but then we're the.
Eldar [00:47:16]:
One who's making that.
Anatoliy [00:47:17]:
We cannot fundamentally say then that. You can't fundamentally compare those two things if you're going to bring in other variables into play. I mean, it's just not a fair comparison.
Eldar [00:47:26]:
You're the one who started this fucking conundrum by saying that when I'm more in shape, I'm having more fun because of my performance. It's not the case for Mike. He just fucking said his testimony, bro.
Anatoliy [00:47:38]:
I mean, because he's bringing in other variables into it.
Eldar [00:47:41]:
All right, you want to make a box, a perfect box. They're like, okay, cool. Well, then with the right attitude, again, it goes back to those things. He came with the right attitude, with the right shape, had the right team, therefore he had more fun. Well, fucking duh.
Anatoliy [00:47:57]:
That's the whole point.
Eldar [00:47:58]:
You're not saying anything then.
Anatoliy [00:48:00]:
Yeah, but then you're also saying the opposite night. You're saying, oh, he was out of shape, but he came in, he was a great teammate. He messed around arguing with you. He trolled around.
Eldar [00:48:09]:
Well, duh.
Anatoliy [00:48:10]:
Because he wasn't a rat with you.
Eldar [00:48:12]:
And telling you that thing, his ability to extract fun does not fucking root in his fucking performance or his fucking shapeness being in shape. You keep saying no, okay? It's a fundamental fucking difference.
Anatoliy [00:48:26]:
I think it has something to do with. It's probably not all of it, but it has something to do to do with it. Yeah.
Mike [00:48:31]:
That statement is very limiting of your own ability to control how you feel.
Eldar [00:48:38]:
That's it. Nobody's talking about comparing stats, for example. You know what I mean?
Anatoliy [00:48:43]:
Statistics no, I'm saying that there's been plenty of times I've seen you walk in there, right? And, I don't know, your back's not there like this and that. And you're like, yeah, that's it. I'm done. Not at this. Versus, like, yeah, okay, but there's a different day where you're in shape, but you're being a rat to people.
Mike [00:49:01]:
Sure. Yes.
Anatoliy [00:49:01]:
You're not going to have as much fun. It's the same thing as, like, if you're out of shape and everything is great that day and you're being nice to everybody, you're going to have more fun. Or you could say you're out of shape and you're being a rat as well. Or you're in shape and you're not being. To me, there is no comparison, regardless of anything, because you could just make.
Eldar [00:49:21]:
Up whatever circumstances is not fucking reliant, only on fucking being in shape.
Anatoliy [00:49:25]:
100%. I agree with that. Yeah, but you're disagreeing with that.
Eldar [00:49:29]:
But you kept saying that in the beginning.
Anatoliy [00:49:30]:
You kept saying, what did I say?
Eldar [00:49:31]:
That the correlation is that, is that I need to be in shape in order to.
Anatoliy [00:49:35]:
Well, we didn't talk about the other things. If I'm in shape and I'm chiseled. If I'm chiseled, I'm in shape and I could run 20 miles, but I'm being a dickhead to everybody in the court. Yeah, I'm probably not going to make fun.
Eldar [00:49:47]:
If you can't make your shots, then your fun is clearly tied to, for example, performance.
Anatoliy [00:49:52]:
But it's not 100 or nothing, elder. It's not 100 or zero. That's why I have a hard time believing that you get the full hundred exactly on the dot every single time, no matter what. Because I have personally witnessed you have more or less fun. I think at least I thought that was happening.
Eldar [00:50:10]:
Just like Phil doesn't have the ability to see you, perceive you properly, you don't have the proper maybe not to perceive me and judge it in accordance to what fun actually means. That's all that is.
Anatoliy [00:50:21]:
You've never played anger on the court, for example.
Eldar [00:50:23]:
Doesn't mean that it wasn't overridden by fun in the moment. The fuck? I don't know what.
Anatoliy [00:50:29]:
You could just say anything. You could just be like, oh, I yelled at all those people. But it doesn't mean that I didn't have fun to be just like any.
Eldar [00:50:38]:
Word right now about you saying any.
Anatoliy [00:50:40]:
Word can be just made up right now.
Eldar [00:50:43]:
Yeah, I got angry and then all the fun went out the window.
Anatoliy [00:50:45]:
I'm saying that there was never a time where you got angry or something.
Mike [00:50:50]:
Probably not, no. Okay, that's it then.
Anatoliy [00:50:53]:
That's case close. Exactly.
Eldar [00:50:55]:
What was he going to prove with that? With what? What is he going to say after that? After I say yes, what is he going to say?
Anatoliy [00:51:01]:
No, but I'm saying you didn't have.
Eldar [00:51:02]:
Fun that day, you know what I'm saying?
Phillip [00:51:03]:
But what if you did get, okay, if you did get angry one day.
Eldar [00:51:06]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:51:08]:
Are you allowing that anger to then override the whole thing?
Eldar [00:51:11]:
No.
Phillip [00:51:11]:
Ruin your whole day?
Eldar [00:51:12]:
No.
Anatoliy [00:51:12]:
Well then I have fun every time as well.
Eldar [00:51:14]:
You know what I'm saying?
Anatoliy [00:51:15]:
I have fun then every time.
Phillip [00:51:16]:
So then he's saying that he has fun every time.
Eldar [00:51:18]:
Then that means he changes tomb completely.
Anatoliy [00:51:20]:
Well, no. Based on these kinds of rubric, based on your way of measuring it right now, I have fun every single our.
Phillip [00:51:26]:
Way of measuring fun right now.
Anatoliy [00:51:28]:
Based on what elder is saying, yes. Because I have times where I exploded, I got furious. But there was some plays, I had fun, so I did have fun that day.
Mike [00:51:37]:
Yeah, that's it.
Anatoliy [00:51:38]:
That's what I'm saying. If that's how we're measuring it, then I have fun every single time.
Mike [00:51:43]:
Yeah, that's great.
Mike [00:51:44]:
Then that's it.
Eldar [00:51:45]:
Yeah, we don't have any conversation about that.
Phillip [00:51:47]:
So then you don't have to lose any weight and then you don't have to shoot better at all to have fun.
Eldar [00:51:52]:
That's right.
Mike [00:51:53]:
What are we talking about?
Anatoliy [00:51:54]:
That's what I'm saying.
Phillip [00:51:54]:
Then we're all in agreement.
Anatoliy [00:51:55]:
Of what?
Phillip [00:51:56]:
And everybody is having fun in the.
Eldar [00:51:58]:
Basket and I can't wait for him to stop complaining.
Mike [00:52:03]:
What do you mean?
Mike [00:52:04]:
Well now you can't complain because you're having fun. Why would you complain?
Anatoliy [00:52:07]:
Well, because I have outbursts of people not having fun. People that just like when he got.
Mike [00:52:11]:
Outbursts of not having fun, it's still fun overall.
Anatoliy [00:52:15]:
Yeah, but I could still complain then.
Eldar [00:52:16]:
Well then I can't wait for me not to ever respond to him complaining.
Mike [00:52:20]:
Oh wow. I can't wait for it to see that.
Eldar [00:52:22]:
Thank you. And I would love for you to remind me of that if I do violate.
Mike [00:52:26]:
Yeah, that'd be very funny because that's.
Eldar [00:52:28]:
Going to be very fun.
Mike [00:52:29]:
That's going to be very funny.
Eldar [00:52:29]:
And yet again I'm going to have fun. It's not fun.
Phillip [00:52:33]:
Can we slap him with the ruler? And then I put the lemon on his head.
Anatoliy [00:52:36]:
Yeah, no time is funny if we're not counting anytime someone does not like, if you just have to.
Eldar [00:52:42]:
I'm glad. You finally going to learn how to have fun.
Anatoliy [00:52:45]:
I know, but I just don't understand.
Mike [00:52:46]:
Why you can't call things for what they are.
Eldar [00:52:48]:
I'm calling them for what they are. I'm trying to help you out here.
Anatoliy [00:52:51]:
No, but I'm explaining that there's.
Eldar [00:52:53]:
You're resisting and you're not understanding what we're trying to say. Then that's on you. That's not on me. And now you're saying that you do understand. So then you always have fun. Great, then I'm happy for you.
Anatoliy [00:53:03]:
Yeah. Overall, I'm going to always have fun.
Mike [00:53:05]:
Yeah. All right, that's it then.
Anatoliy [00:53:07]:
But I definitely don't have fun at all times.
Mike [00:53:09]:
Case closed.
Anatoliy [00:53:11]:
Just like no one here has fun at all times.
Mike [00:53:14]:
That's your assumption.
Anatoliy [00:53:15]:
That's a fact. I've seen it with my own two eyes. If the people don't want to admit.
Eldar [00:53:19]:
It, then you just agreed to our thing.
Anatoliy [00:53:20]:
I agreed that based on your way of measuring fun.
Eldar [00:53:23]:
So then you never witnessed us not having fun?
Anatoliy [00:53:25]:
No, I've witnessed moments of not having moments.
Mike [00:53:27]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:53:28]:
Moments of not having fun.
Mike [00:53:29]:
Yes. Okay. Yeah. Right. Is it not fair?
Eldar [00:53:33]:
Moments?
Mike [00:53:34]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:53:34]:
General, then. No. You didn't witness never.
Anatoliy [00:53:36]:
But moments I have witnessed of maybe moments you did.
Eldar [00:53:39]:
Yeah, but which did not override the overall font. But we only judging based on the overall font, so yours doesn't even count.
Mike [00:53:46]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:53:46]:
Then overall we all have fun.
Eldar [00:53:47]:
That's what I'm saying. Yeah, we agree on that. I'm glad we agree.
Anatoliy [00:53:51]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:53:55]:
They usually succumb to my belief systems.
Mike [00:53:57]:
Right.
Eldar [00:53:58]:
Elderism, overall.
Anatoliy [00:53:59]:
Yeah. I don't understand why we have to.
Mike [00:54:03]:
Label it as that.
Eldar [00:54:04]:
Why it sounds like it's a perfectly fucking normal thing.
Mike [00:54:07]:
All right.
Anatoliy [00:54:08]:
When you were playing too much and getting hurt, were you having fun?
Mike [00:54:11]:
Was that fun for you?
Eldar [00:54:13]:
Were you trying to catch me?
Anatoliy [00:54:15]:
No, but I'm asking you.
Eldar [00:54:16]:
No, I'm telling you.
Mike [00:54:17]:
I'm asking you because we could skip this part.
Eldar [00:54:20]:
Because I could give you an answer based on what you're trying to go to. It'll be easier.
Anatoliy [00:54:24]:
My mind doesn't think that fast.
Eldar [00:54:25]:
Okay, cool.
Anatoliy [00:54:26]:
Were you having fun during those times?
Mike [00:54:28]:
Yes.
Anatoliy [00:54:29]:
And you had to play less, you had to figure out, like, a solution?
Mike [00:54:32]:
Yes.
Anatoliy [00:54:33]:
In those exact moments?
Mike [00:54:35]:
Yes.
Anatoliy [00:54:36]:
So you've never had a non fun moment?
Mike [00:54:38]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:54:39]:
Because those moments were fun. The afterwards was not fun. So what do you want from me? I explained to you very clearly I said, hey, I'm having too much fun, Mike. And because I'm having too much fun, the next day, I'm not having any fun.
Mike [00:54:52]:
Yeah, what the fuck is.
Eldar [00:54:54]:
What do you want?
Anatoliy [00:54:55]:
What about if you get injured constantly in the games, you were having fun during injury?
Mike [00:54:59]:
Yeah, I'm having fun during injury.
Anatoliy [00:55:02]:
Like when you get injured constantly, what are you talking?
Mike [00:55:04]:
Constantly? Like what?
Eldar [00:55:06]:
In regards to what? Who's controlling the injury?
Mike [00:55:08]:
I don't understand.
Eldar [00:55:10]:
Having fun or not having fun.
Anatoliy [00:55:12]:
Like, were you having fun when you were getting injured more frequently?
Mike [00:55:15]:
Well, what do you think?
Anatoliy [00:55:16]:
Probably not.
Eldar [00:55:17]:
Okay, so what are you trying to tie that to? I don't understand.
Mike [00:55:19]:
Well, that was me getting injured.
Anatoliy [00:55:21]:
Well, yeah, when this is happening, you're clearly not having as much fun than when you don't get injured.
Mike [00:55:25]:
Right. Okay.
Eldar [00:55:27]:
When I got injured, it was always under my control.
Mike [00:55:30]:
No. Okay.
Eldar [00:55:31]:
So that which I can control, I have fun in that which I can't control in. If somebody like Sam goes right underneath me when I'm shooting, right. Or when I'm jumping for the rebound, and he decides with his belief system, go underneath me and I'll land on it. Right. You think I chose for him to do this?
Anatoliy [00:55:48]:
Well, no, but you also know what to play the game of basketball.
Eldar [00:55:51]:
Part of it, I do, and I accept the responsibility of that.
Mike [00:55:56]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:55:56]:
So I don't see then in the way that you're measuring it. I don't see how. I don't always have fun either.
Eldar [00:56:03]:
Listen, I'm not the one who made the testimony.
Mike [00:56:05]:
You did.
Eldar [00:56:07]:
You said that you try to measure and explain to us how sometimes you have more fun than others. This is what you said. And you trying to say that it's performance based for you. That's what we heard. And then we started bringing in our example, and then you realized, like, oh, wait a second, guys. I think I also kind of feel.
Anatoliy [00:56:24]:
No, because.
Eldar [00:56:26]:
We'Re talking about fun, bro.
Anatoliy [00:56:28]:
No, I thought we were measuring fun on a particular scale, and then I realized we're measuring on a different one.
Eldar [00:56:33]:
Yeah, and that's your fault, not mine. You know what I'm saying?
Anatoliy [00:56:37]:
I'll take responsibility.
Eldar [00:56:38]:
That which is not under my control. Right.
Mike [00:56:41]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:56:41]:
You know what I'm saying? That's my not having fun at that moment. But clearly, the stuff that he has, he's under the assumption that he doesn't have control over. That's why he's not having fun. And that's a deeper conversation.
Mike [00:56:53]:
Right.
Eldar [00:56:54]:
I happen to have control over those situations, therefore I have fun in those situations, even though he sees that I'm.
Mike [00:56:59]:
Not having fun when I am. You know what I'm saying?
Eldar [00:57:02]:
A lot of times you see it, you witness it. I get angry. How do I get angry?
Mike [00:57:06]:
Yeah, you're trolling people.
Eldar [00:57:07]:
You know what I'm saying? It's perceived in very specific way. People want to fight me.
Mike [00:57:12]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:57:12]:
You know what I mean? I'm having a lot of fun.
Mike [00:57:14]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:57:15]:
So to a naked eye, those people.
Eldar [00:57:18]:
That don't see that kind of thing.
Mike [00:57:19]:
Yeah, I can see how that be. You know what I mean?
Eldar [00:57:21]:
But I'm still associating that with being fun, for me, at least.
Mike [00:57:24]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:57:24]:
I mean, I definitely don't have the ability to replicate to the t. To the absolute decimal point the same fun experience every single time.
Mike [00:57:32]:
I do not.
Anatoliy [00:57:33]:
And I'm completely.
Eldar [00:57:34]:
I'm glad you're resorting to that argument in order to.
Anatoliy [00:57:36]:
I am completely personally fine to admit that if others are not. I mean, that's obviously you could hold.
Eldar [00:57:41]:
Me to it because I said it. And I also said that every time I go out there, my fun bar goes even higher.
Mike [00:57:48]:
That's great.
Anatoliy [00:57:49]:
Hopefully one day I can get there.
Mike [00:57:50]:
I hope so, too. But not today.
Eldar [00:57:54]:
No, probably not today.
Anatoliy [00:57:57]:
And when I play tomorrow, still not as much tomorrow. Yeah, but I'm still going to have.
Mike [00:58:02]:
Fun every time I play.
Eldar [00:58:03]:
Well, you identify that for yourself. I'm glad that you're finally doing that because you've been very hard on yourself for a very long time.
Mike [00:58:10]:
Yes.
Anatoliy [00:58:10]:
Now I'm in the camp of I.
Mike [00:58:11]:
Always have fun, no matter what you are.
Phillip [00:58:15]:
What made the change?
Anatoliy [00:58:17]:
Well, I made the change because I realized I was measuring it wrong the whole time. Yeah, I realized that I can outburst at people for 90% of the time and then those, like, 10% of the time smile.
Mike [00:58:27]:
And I can call that.
Anatoliy [00:58:29]:
That I had fun.
Mike [00:58:29]:
That I had fun.
Eldar [00:58:32]:
That's a good revenge tour.
Mike [00:58:34]:
Good metric.
Eldar [00:58:35]:
Yeah, it's a good metric.
Phillip [00:58:36]:
Wait, would you say that when you're playing that 90% of it is like, outbursts and all this kind of stuff and ten.
Mike [00:58:42]:
No, I think we always have the.
Anatoliy [00:58:45]:
Individual, but I'm saying for you, would.
Phillip [00:58:46]:
You say it's like a smaller percentage of that and most of it is like playing the game of basketball?
Eldar [00:58:50]:
99% of the time, I have fun, bro. That's why I keep coming back and I keep enjoying myself. The times when I don't, I try to adjust. Like, for example, if I get injured, I'm not going to come the next day because I'm not going to have fun because I'm injured. Philip, who goes to play basketball injured? Usually. Sure, I have some aches and pains. Those are not good. But I'm still coming because overall, I'm going to have fun, which is going to override those aches and pains.
Mike [00:59:12]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:59:15]:
I am not associating me being in shape or not being shaped as the be all, end, all of me having.
Anatoliy [00:59:21]:
Neither am I, ever. Neither am I ever.
Eldar [00:59:24]:
You know what I'm saying?
Mike [00:59:25]:
Ever.
Eldar [00:59:25]:
In the beginning, we had the conversation.
Anatoliy [00:59:28]:
Listen back to the tape. I never said that it was the only variable.
Mike [00:59:35]:
I mean, not only that, this is a repeating thing. You guys had the conversation about basketball. From what I heard on that podcast, a lot of things came out about the game and the competition and the revenge.
Mike [00:59:44]:
That's right.
Mike [00:59:44]:
And all that stuff.
Eldar [00:59:46]:
You're not an idiot.
Mike [00:59:48]:
This is not a news to me. It's not breaking news.
Anatoliy [00:59:51]:
Being to me somebody who's coming, somebody.
Eldar [00:59:53]:
Wrong, versus somebody who's going to me.
Anatoliy [00:59:54]:
Basketball part of it is a physical sport part of it. There's a mental side of it. There's a physical side of it. If you're in a worse mental place, you're not going to exceed in the mental side of things, then you're not.
Mike [01:00:08]:
Going to always have fun.
Anatoliy [01:00:10]:
If your mental is not on point, if you're not as good physically, then there's going to be times you're physically not as good. I think the peak enjoyment, for me at least, is when both of those.
Mike [01:00:18]:
Things can kind of mesh together.
Eldar [01:00:20]:
Oh, this is being fair.
Mike [01:00:21]:
Now.
Anatoliy [01:00:23]:
That, to me is as obvious as.
Mike [01:00:26]:
ABCs, that there's physical element, there's a.
Anatoliy [01:00:31]:
Mental element, and if both of those are not in good places, then you're.
Mike [01:00:36]:
Not going to have as much fun, at least I think.
Anatoliy [01:00:40]:
But you can also blanket it in.
Mike [01:00:42]:
Just whatever ways you want and just.
Anatoliy [01:00:44]:
Call it whatever as well. So it just depends on how you want to, if you want to call it fairly and honestly or not, that is the way that I look at it.
Eldar [01:00:54]:
Yeah, but at the end of the day, it's subjective, right, to us. So I called over what it is. You don't want to take it. You don't take it. You don't take Mike's testimony, you don't take Philip's observation, you don't take it because you have your own perception of it.
Anatoliy [01:01:05]:
No, but if it's my subject, no, but you're commenting then on my subjective experience.
Eldar [01:01:08]:
But you also commented on all of ours, too.
Anatoliy [01:01:10]:
Well, yes, because I didn't know that they were completely off limits.
Mike [01:01:13]:
Now I get that they are.
Anatoliy [01:01:15]:
We could just successfully say whatever, right?
Mike [01:01:18]:
Of course.
Mike [01:01:20]:
Not in search of the truth. We definitely could say whatever.
Anatoliy [01:01:22]:
Well, that's what it sounds like is happening, though.
Eldar [01:01:24]:
No, absolutely. All right, so how do we tie.
Mike [01:01:29]:
This to the topic?
Mike [01:01:31]:
What's the topic?
Mike [01:01:32]:
I already forgot this.
Mike [01:01:34]:
Blender.
Mike [01:01:36]:
Help us out here.
Phillip [01:01:39]:
The original topic.
Mike [01:01:43]:
Motivation. Yeah, motivation and inspiration.
Phillip [01:01:47]:
Why we're doing what we're doing.
Mike [01:01:48]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:01:48]:
And non lasting results or fluffed up results that ultimately then are reverted back.
Phillip [01:01:57]:
So how does this tie in? Yeah, I think being honest with yourself, and then also, it seems like there's a lot of different subjective labels that we're all giving each other or that we're all giving each other for what's fun and how we associate basketball with this. There has to be some kind of universal thing that we all agree with. If we're all subjective and saying, you have a certain idea of fun, you have a certain idea of fun, and you have a certain idea of fun, I don't think that we're hitting the actual root of it, or we'd all agree, or we're all just like, I don't know. We're not saying truthful things. There has to be, like, something's off in the conversation for us to not be tackling the truth. Because at some level, how is that.
Eldar [01:02:44]:
Tied to that, which a lot of times happens to people where because of the fact that they're not tying the truth to that inspiration or whatever, they come up with different outcomes or wrong outcomes, and then they ultimately are not happy or not having fun.
Phillip [01:03:00]:
Yeah, I think that's like the recipe for doing something for a short period of time and then stopping that thing and then having to reevaluate what it is because you're not calling it for what it is.
Mike [01:03:10]:
Yeah. Okay.
Phillip [01:03:11]:
So I think eventually that always comes out if you are seeking the truth.
Eldar [01:03:14]:
So how do you prevent it?
Phillip [01:03:16]:
How do you prevent it?
Mike [01:03:19]:
Well, why would you need to draw on motivation or inspiration? I don't know the answer to this question, but if everything in life is.
Eldar [01:03:28]:
Good, it's almost like a quick fix and it's very appealable.
Mike [01:03:31]:
No, I was going to say, if everything in life is good, why would you want to change something?
Eldar [01:03:38]:
Not overall, but not swayed by that.
Mike [01:03:40]:
If you're in one area like, yo, actually I'm happy with my weight. Let's just use that because it's the relevant example. I'm happy with my weight. Then you want to change it. But if you're happy with it, why do you need to motivate yourself or become inspired to change something? Is there other reasons people want to change something other than not being happy?
Eldar [01:03:57]:
No.
Mike [01:03:59]:
Is growth like a thing that people hide behind? Like, oh, I want to grow. Yeah, but that's a hiding mechanism.
Eldar [01:04:04]:
That means that you're not growing right now and therefore you're not happy with growth.
Mike [01:04:08]:
You're not growing or you're not happy with.
Eldar [01:04:10]:
Well, you're not happy with where you're at. If you want to grow, that's a desire to do something to change. If a desire to change something present, that means you're not happy with that.
Mike [01:04:21]:
But I think people probably won't look at it like, hey, I'm not happy. That's why I want to make a change. People will say, like, I want to be happier, but not say that I'm unhappy. They'll just say, I want to be happier. I want more.
Eldar [01:04:31]:
But who cares of what they want to say?
Mike [01:04:32]:
No, it doesn't say it. It doesn't matter what they want to say. But I'm just trying to understand why are people looking to become motivated to change something about themselves? Is it always from a place of deficit?
Eldar [01:04:44]:
It has to be.
Mike [01:04:45]:
It has to be, right? There's no other way.
Eldar [01:04:46]:
There's no other way, I don't think.
Phillip [01:04:47]:
Well, because that person that says they want to be happier, there's probably a good chance that they are truly unhappy to begin with.
Mike [01:04:53]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:04:53]:
And they're trying to just get happy.
Mike [01:04:55]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:04:56]:
And those things that are inspiring them or motivating them are very appealing to them in that moment.
Mike [01:05:00]:
But is it like that kind of feeling? Is it like, the inspiration, motivation? Is it a blind thing? Like, you're kind of willing to grasp whatever inspires you in that moment? Let's say the rocky thing. You see Rocky, and now all of a sudden you want to become a boxer because you see him. Oh, he's happy. This image is portrayed of this guy. He's good looking, he's in shape, he's happy. He's got a nice car, a nice girl, a nice house, right? He looks like he's happy. And we're attaching him to this image. I'm like, okay, so to be like this, we have to be a boxer now, or whatever it is, do we always attach to this image that's kind of, like, drawn for us?
Mike [01:05:37]:
Right? Yeah, we don't question it really.
Mike [01:05:41]:
How did he get there? Is it actually the truth? Like, maybe fucking boxing is dead for me. I want to be a fucking tennis player. How do we know what's actually for.
Mike [01:05:49]:
Us versus, like, I guess people are.
Mike [01:05:53]:
So much attached to the image of the happiness not on the way to get there. Maybe I want to be happy, but I'd like to do it through tennis.
Eldar [01:05:59]:
No, it's fine. What you would do it through, I think. And maybe you already have. No, I think tennis. I'm just saying, even if you want to do it through tennis.
Mike [01:06:07]:
No, I agree. It's fine. But I think people never think about the way to get there. They more so think about that image, and they don't really concentrate on, like.
Mike [01:06:16]:
Hey, well, Rocky did it through boxing.
Mike [01:06:19]:
I also have become a boxer. But, like, hey, maybe you're actually a pretty good tennis player or a basketball player. Why don't you try to extract happiness through this? Because you already know, like, again, living out this idea that you kind of bought into or you created, that this is what happiness looks like based on this motivational movie you just saw. Inspirational movie.
Eldar [01:06:39]:
Well, it's very appealing to what you're watching.
Mike [01:06:42]:
Right.
Mike [01:06:42]:
That's what I'm saying.
Phillip [01:06:43]:
But if somebody is truly extracting the right things from the rocky movie, I don't think that person is going to say, oh, man, I have to be a like, I think if you're extracting the right things and you're saying, hey, this guy is finding love for a sport, and he has passion and he's like, happiness, and he's working really hard in training and being consistent with this thing. I think you can associate that with being a chef or being a boxer or being a tennis player. I think if you extract the right things, they're transferable to anything.
Eldar [01:07:18]:
Yeah, that's the point.
Phillip [01:07:19]:
So I don't think that that person is going to be really caught up on that. I think that then that person is looking at the image and saying, like, okay, I have to look like this to then maybe be this. Then I think you can get caught up in, like, okay, I'm extracting the wrong information. That's not the truth. And then, like, kind of, like, mismanaging it in my own life, then I can see it kind of being difficult to take. But if I'm watching Rocky, I'm like, yo, if I'm like a writer or an actor or something like this, I'd be like, oh, man.
Eldar [01:07:49]:
What if you.
Mike [01:07:50]:
Have all those things met?
Eldar [01:07:51]:
What if you are Rocky or more?
Anatoliy [01:07:54]:
Let's just say you're physically strong.
Mike [01:07:56]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:07:56]:
You're already physically strong.
Phillip [01:07:57]:
I'm a good boxer already.
Eldar [01:07:58]:
You're a champion already.
Phillip [01:07:59]:
A champion already.
Eldar [01:08:00]:
You have beautiful woman. You have it all. You're watching the movie.
Mike [01:08:04]:
What are you getting?
Eldar [01:08:07]:
I guess absolutely nothing.
Phillip [01:08:09]:
It's reaffirming that the way that you did everything could look like this. Are you getting the same inspiration as.
Mike [01:08:17]:
A guy who doesn't have it? I don't know.
Eldar [01:08:20]:
No, I'm saying the guy that already has it all.
Phillip [01:08:22]:
Yeah. To me, I'm watching that then as, like, a guy who is the champion already and being like, oh, yeah, this is how I did it.
Eldar [01:08:29]:
Well, what if you didn't do it that way?
Mike [01:08:31]:
Yeah, I just thought about the Wall street movie, right? That guy, he got himself to the top. I'm curious. People watching them will be like, yo, I want to be rich and successful like him. But look what he did. He stepped on so many people. He did so much shady shit.
Phillip [01:08:44]:
So you'd have to ask if I'm watching Rocky, I don't think he cut any corners. Like, if I'm watching Wall street, I'm clearly seeing that he cut corners.
Eldar [01:08:54]:
But you have that perception right now because you know Rocky, for Rocky, and you think that Rocky has no flaws, right? In the way his approach, sure. But a person who accomplished it maybe in a different way without needing to, I don't know, get beat up as much as Rocky got beat up.
Mike [01:09:09]:
Right.
Eldar [01:09:10]:
You know what I mean? Or the troubles that he went through. He's like, rocky's a fucking idiot. What's wrong with him?
Mike [01:09:15]:
Yeah, he was a shock.
Phillip [01:09:16]:
Why did he have to suffer so much to get to where he got. That's what's with him.
Eldar [01:09:20]:
I'm not looking up to him.
Phillip [01:09:22]:
So you're saying there's a possibility that that champion could be watching the movie.
Anatoliy [01:09:25]:
And then not only is like a lone shark collector.
Mike [01:09:29]:
I don't know what?
Anatoliy [01:09:31]:
I didn't know that he worked at the train station. Like, he worked for that guy. Remember, his job was to go find guys that owe that guy money.
Eldar [01:09:39]:
I thought he worked at the. What's the name?
Mike [01:09:40]:
Meat.
Mike [01:09:40]:
Meat shop.
Phillip [01:09:41]:
I thought he worked at the meat shop and gym.
Anatoliy [01:09:43]:
No, I don't remember the meat shop because. No, he went to the meat shop because Paulie, his wife's brother, the alcoholic guy, he worked there in the factory, and he let him go there to hit.
Mike [01:09:57]:
Beat up the meat.
Mike [01:09:58]:
The meat.
Anatoliy [01:09:59]:
Okay. In the very first movie, he worked with a guy with the sunglasses, the italian guy. And his job was to. He gave him a list and he had to go find people that owed this guy money and be like, yo, I remember there was a casino. They picked up the guy or threatened to beat him up because he owed that guy money.
Eldar [01:10:19]:
Okay.
Anatoliy [01:10:20]:
It was by the rail station. I remember that.
Phillip [01:10:25]:
Okay, that's a good point.
Eldar [01:10:27]:
He was actually a rat.
Phillip [01:10:28]:
So if I know this, right, because I don't know much about.
Anatoliy [01:10:31]:
Because Rocky was strong and people were like, if he comes to you, he could physically impose his will.
Mike [01:10:35]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:10:35]:
Well, now, okay, so my understanding. I don't know rocky details. I know the big things about the movie. I haven't sat down and watched the whole thing, so I don't know details. So if I take that detail, and then you're asking me again as that champion guy.
Mike [01:10:48]:
Yes.
Phillip [01:10:48]:
There's going to be a lot that I'm looking at and saying, hey, this is definitely not the way to do it. I wouldn't tell my kids to do this.
Anatoliy [01:10:54]:
I would look at it differently in these movies. The person who's watching it, depending on their abilities to watch the movie or inabilities.
Mike [01:11:05]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [01:11:05]:
Or inability to see what's happening, is what they're going to get out of it.
Mike [01:11:12]:
Right.
Anatoliy [01:11:12]:
People could watch the wolf of Wall street and be like, this is exactly what I want. This is awesome. You do a bunch of drugs, you get into these big deals, you wear all this nice clothing, you have this good looking wife, huge house, everything. This is exactly what I want. Right. That's their depiction as to what they view as they actually want. But that's because they don't have the ability to see what's actually going on. Or people could watch a movie and be like, hey, you're watching a movie, right? This is like a story that whoever is making this movie is playing, and you could just see it for what it is.
Anatoliy [01:11:50]:
Or if you have a feel good inspiration, like movie where someone overcomes adversity and they succeed in what they want to succeed and they go about it the right way, you can just respect that type of movie and what happened.
Mike [01:12:07]:
I just think that those things are.
Anatoliy [01:12:09]:
Completely dependent on your idea as to what you define success and your development.
Eldar [01:12:14]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [01:12:15]:
Whatever that you define as good or bad.
Mike [01:12:19]:
And I think that a lot of.
Anatoliy [01:12:21]:
People that watch these movies, they're defining.
Mike [01:12:24]:
Good and bad in a very surface level, vanity way. Yeah.
Anatoliy [01:12:28]:
And then they're getting.
Eldar [01:12:31]:
They're selling you a cheap dream.
Mike [01:12:33]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:12:34]:
I think most of Hollywood does this because they have to appeal to a mass audience. Yeah, most point, most people are not going to have these type of in depth conversations. Like, if they're trying to.
Eldar [01:12:44]:
That's why the movies are getting worse, but they're still making money.
Phillip [01:12:46]:
They're making tons of money, because the.
Anatoliy [01:12:49]:
More diluted, they've just resorted to remaking old movies.
Phillip [01:12:52]:
But the more diluted and the more easily graspable, like these concepts are. The humor is, like, very surface. They have to throw it in your face. Just picture this they're doing now, like on TikTok.
Eldar [01:13:04]:
Yeah, I've gone to these movies, and they said a corny ass joke, and the fucking theater is laughing.
Phillip [01:13:10]:
No, but think about.
Eldar [01:13:10]:
I'm like, what the fuck?
Phillip [01:13:11]:
Okay, but think about, how's this bought? So there was a show called friends. You know the show friends?
Mike [01:13:16]:
Yeah. Okay.
Phillip [01:13:16]:
If you watch the show friends, which I never really got.
Eldar [01:13:20]:
I like that show.
Phillip [01:13:21]:
Oh, you do?
Mike [01:13:21]:
I do.
Phillip [01:13:22]:
So there's actually a laugh track on that show, meaning when you watch that show, it tells you when to laugh. In the background on TikTok right now, they removed the laugh track, and they're putting it in, and it's so creepy to watch them just interact with no laugh track.
Eldar [01:13:38]:
Oh, shit.
Phillip [01:13:39]:
And it's very od to see the type of interactions. And if you had to watch it again, I'd be curious to see if you like it again without the laugh track, because the laugh track is so powerful. Just think, this is basically saying, hey, guys, we don't know if this is going to be funny or not. We're going to get all these actors. At the time, they weren't really big. Now they're big, and you can say, oh, no, they're famous. At the time, they were not famous. So the concept of this was like, all these people in New York.
Phillip [01:14:04]:
So it was a very relatable show to people growing up wanting to go to a big city. But at the end of the day, if you have to rely on a laugh track, how funny can that show actually be? So I think that when you look at movies and you look at how a lot of these things are marketed to now, all these avenger type movies, like, all these superhero movies, how many people are going to this? And what are they actually extracting? Like, a young kid thinking, like, he's actually going to be like a superhero.
Anatoliy [01:14:32]:
Does he think he's going to actually.
Phillip [01:14:34]:
Be a guy who can fly around and be invisible? And what type of conversation is he having with his parents or he's having with his friends? His mom's going to be like, oh, yeah, one day you can be this.
Eldar [01:14:45]:
Next thing, you know, he's sitting. What's his name? A Bergen regional. You know what I mean? For evaluation.
Phillip [01:14:50]:
Yeah, I like the spider bite me.
Anatoliy [01:14:52]:
But.
Eldar [01:14:57]:
Mom, what happened?
Phillip [01:14:58]:
What happened? Yeah, I mean, like, listen, I think imagination is good. There's that thing of, like, you're a parent. It's probably a hard discussion to have. When your kid asks you, like, hey, is Santa Claus real?
Anatoliy [01:15:07]:
Or something?
Phillip [01:15:07]:
Like, like, how long do you.
Mike [01:15:09]:
Why is that the problem? It shouldn't be a hard discussion, but.
Phillip [01:15:11]:
How long do you allow the imagination to run wild? And then where do you shape the imagination within truth and have the real conversation with that person? So where is that line? And I feel like with Hollywood, it's, we want you to pretend for the rest of your life. We want you to pretend that Santa Claus is real forever. And we want you to buy into all this Disney nonsense. Because if not, we're not going to.
Mike [01:15:32]:
Be able to sell you anything because.
Phillip [01:15:34]:
Then we have to get real and talk about the truth. And usually the truth is not very sellable on a mass scale.
Anatoliy [01:15:40]:
No, but I don't think that you have to have all movies be based on truth.
Phillip [01:15:44]:
No, you don't. But I think the.
Anatoliy [01:15:47]:
As long as you have the ability to see it for what it is, I think it's fine. But if you don't, then it's also probably completely fine because you're probably an idiot to begin with.
Phillip [01:15:56]:
Well, it's fine. Yeah, fine. I would say. Yeah, but I would say the things that are the best is, like, if you're watching a comedian who's really good, I guarantee that what he's saying, there's some kind of truth that he's tapping into, and he's using humor to extract it out of.
95. Fun or Performance: Debating What Fuels Enjoyment in Sports
Nov 10, 2023•1 hr 16 min•Ep. 95
Episode description
How does our physical condition—being in shape or out of shape—affect our ability to enjoy activities, such as playing a sport like basketball?
The dialogue navigates the complex interplay of athleticism and enjoyment, as Anatoliy contemplates his continual return to the basketball court regardless of his physical condition. Eldar, with his keen insight, challenges the group to explore what truly drives their engagement with the sport: is it the thrill of competition, the camaraderie among players, or perhaps an intrinsic search for self-improvement?
As the debate unfolds, Mike offers a candid reflection on how his approach to the game has evolved, touching on elements of competitiveness and how they intersect with personal growth. In the midst of this philosophical discourse, the team grapples with the notion of fun as a subjective experience – is it purely dependent on performance, or is there a deeper fulfillment to be found in the mere act of participation?
The episode culminates with a rich tapestry of ideas, humorously punctuating serious reflections on personal motivation, the allure of inspiration, and the importance of staying true to one's own journey towards fulfillment. Ultimately, 'Fun or Performance: Debating What Fuels Enjoyment in Sports' stands as a testament to the enduring quest for joy and meaning in the seemingly mundane.
Transcript
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