72. Knowing without Acting: The Perplexing Human Struggle

Phillip [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode where you exhaust.

Anatoliy [00:00:02]:
Your ego and pride. And that's, I think, where you can be pounced on. Then also the ego and pride rests very quick. It has sick recovery time. No ice needed. It'll be back. The number one agenda universally, I would say, for parents, is to protect what they create from suffering.

Eldar [00:00:17]:
And then fast forward 38 years later. You end up in a Dennis Rock's kindergarten, and you have to start over again.

Anatoliy [00:00:23]:
Everything that I.

Eldar [00:00:24]:
You're just shooting in the dark.

Eldar [00:00:25]:
No, no.

Anatoliy [00:00:26]:
In what way?

Eldar [00:00:27]:
Like what you're saying in everything. Like.

Anatoliy [00:00:29]:
Yeah, just. Just like we have a real life.

Eldar [00:00:31]:
Example of Philip's thing and his situation.

Phillip [00:00:33]:
My heart's on the table and you're just talking generally, first off, first after.

Eldar [00:00:37]:
This right here, after the philosophy bubble, life will start happening to him again. That's what there's disconnect between thinking and then doing.

Phillip [00:00:44]:
We're talking about, like, deep things about, like, purpose and, like, why certain people do certain things. So it seems like, are looking at these things, but you're not seeing yourself in them, or you don't want to see yourself in them.

Anatoliy [00:00:57]:
Or, like, I didn't want to get into specifics. Like, I don't feel that that's nowhere near my character.

Phillip [00:01:02]:
Why did it take you so long to say it, though?

Anatoliy [00:01:04]:
Get humbled or get fucked.

Eldar [00:01:15]:
All right, Mike Tolly's going to introduce the topic because something came to him during the week and he thought it was profound. And we're gonna jump right in. It sounds good.

Eldar [00:01:27]:
Okay.

Anatoliy [00:01:28]:
So I guess there's probably a lot of different directions to take this, but the large, encompassing umbrella of this is kind of like the question around how do people know what makes them happy and what makes them suffer, both from a long term and a short term, like, perspective? Like, I'm convinced that overall, I would say people are not very happy, right. And since they're not very happy, it doesn't sound like they know what actually makes them happy and what doesn't make them happy. Right? Because if it was a clear formula and just something that, like, was that some. Something that made sense and they were convinced of how to replicate it, then I think more people would be happier, right? And there wouldn't be as much suffering. But because there is a lot of suffering going on, it's leading me to believe that people don't know how to, unlike a calculated basis, make themselves happy or, like, reduce suffering. And I think in general, there's a mass confusion around this. And people are doing all kinds of things. Some people are doing things that they think make them happy but actually make them suffer.

Anatoliy [00:02:55]:
And then there's people who are like, you know, I don't know, maybe not exploring things because it. They think it'll make them suffer, but it might make them happy. So that's kind of what I was thinking about. Right. If you were completely sure about what makes you happy and what brings you pain, then how could there be a world that exists for you that you are actually suffering or that you're actually unhappy at times? If you knew exactly what those things are, you would be able to do it consistently.

Mike [00:03:28]:
I guess so, yeah, theoretically, probably, yes.

Eldar [00:03:31]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:03:32]:
So, yeah, that was my question.

Eldar [00:03:35]:
Right.

Anatoliy [00:03:35]:
And then, like, can you explain short.

Eldar [00:03:39]:
Term versus long term?

Eldar [00:03:41]:
Yeah, yeah.

Anatoliy [00:03:42]:
So examples of short term and long term. Like, for example, everyone's had those things where it's like, there's something in the long term that, like, maybe they have intended to, but in the short term, they're enjoying, like, let's say something else potentially, but they're not realizing that, like, you could be enjoying this potentially in the moment here or, like, thinking that this is what you're building up to or something that's getting you happy, but there's something that, like, in the long term, is going to make you unhappy.

Eldar [00:04:13]:
So, like, confusion that goes from short term to long term.

Anatoliy [00:04:17]:
Yeah, short term and long term. And then it's also confusion. I definitely think there's a deep confusion in the power of the short term happiness, the length of the short term happiness. Like, the impact of the short term happiness in comparison to long term happiness.

Eldar [00:04:36]:
Can you give specific examples?

Anatoliy [00:04:38]:
Specific examples?

Eldar [00:04:40]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:04:40]:
Because it would help a little bit more. I mean, for myself in the audience, this comparison, I think you may be onto something, but some examples. Well, your idea.

Eldar [00:04:50]:
Right.

Eldar [00:04:50]:
You kind of.

Eldar [00:04:51]:
Yeah, yeah.

Anatoliy [00:04:52]:
I mean, I think just for example, how people, like, like, people's relationship with food or how they consume food.

Eldar [00:05:01]:
Right.

Anatoliy [00:05:01]:
That that could be one. So you could have situation where, like, I guess in the moment, you kind of stuff your face and you eat too much.

Eldar [00:05:09]:
Mm hmm.

Anatoliy [00:05:10]:
And then afterwards, like, I don't know, let's say you had a day plan of different things, or, like, there's different things you wanted to do, and then you can't do them now because you. Or, like, the day is just not gonna go as well now because you, for example, you ate too much or you. Yeah, yeah. Like, did something like that. And then, like, in the short term, I guess probably in the moment, like.

Eldar [00:05:36]:
Okay, so in the moment where you plan to do stuff, you have a lot of, you know, tasks to do it, you know, during the day.

Eldar [00:05:42]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:05:43]:
And for example, you smoke too much weed and you got munchies and you got very, very hungry.

Eldar [00:05:46]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:05:46]:
And then from there, you became very tired.

Eldar [00:05:49]:
Yeah. Right.

Eldar [00:05:50]:
And then all those short term goals are out the window because you completely, like, screwed yourself on the very, like, the first action.

Eldar [00:05:58]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:05:58]:
And I also think that, like.

Eldar [00:06:00]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:06:01]:
Like, for example, doing something like that. And then. And then when it comes to, like, like, long term stuff, it's not, like, long term stuff, meaning that, like, it's a far away thing. Long term stuff is still something that you build towards to, like, every day, probably.

Eldar [00:06:16]:
Right.

Anatoliy [00:06:16]:
Or, like, on a more frequent basis, you're, like, chipping away at this long term thing.

Eldar [00:06:22]:
Right.

Anatoliy [00:06:23]:
And if, for example, if you don't properly eat or.

Eldar [00:06:27]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:06:27]:
If you elect to smoke weed during the day, it could definitely interrupt like that.

Eldar [00:06:35]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:06:36]:
For sure.

Eldar [00:06:36]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:06:37]:
Okay, so that's an example of, like, a short term.

Anatoliy [00:06:39]:
Yeah, yeah. And then comes, like, the cycle that happens after that is, like, these long term, I guess, goals or these long term things that you want to do are not being accomplished, so there's certain, like, troubles with them. And I think that there's, like, a confusion process that also, like, unfolds for the individual where they're, like, where they're, like, unsure as to, like, why now the current, like, because now when it comes to long term, like, long term doesn't need to be extremely far away, just maybe more of a larger thing that you're chipping away at. Right. As time goes. And. And, like, your goal, for example, or what you want to do is not being, like, accomplished or getting closer to, like, the finish line then starts to, like, figure out that. Then, like, I think naturally people want to figure out why.

Eldar [00:07:36]:
Why that's not happening.

Eldar [00:07:38]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:07:38]:
And I feel that, like, then it's like, there's just probably a perpetual cycle of not being able to figure out exactly why. And then you just kind of go down the alley of, like, not being able to tie. Tie things together properly, and then you probably just build a sizable amount of anger.

Eldar [00:07:57]:
Mm hmm.

Anatoliy [00:07:58]:
You know, and then you just continue there. You get a bit lost because I don't think that people could be in prolonged states of confusion.

Eldar [00:08:08]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:08:09]:
Interesting. Okay, well, you said a lot. So ultimately, this is all going back to the fact that you don't know what makes you suffer or makes you happy.

Eldar [00:08:18]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:08:19]:
Like, I think all of us have, like, ideas of this, right? But I think that we continuously prove that, like, we don't have a firm grasp on it by the way our lives, like, unfold. We don't have a firm grasp as to like a calculated effort, more or less. That's like, consistent.

Eldar [00:08:38]:
Why do you think that happens? That phenomenon where people make their own connections? I guess they try to play connected dots, but they not connecting the dots at all.

Anatoliy [00:08:45]:
Yeah, I think a lot of these things, these ideas and belief systems were probably built on like, unexamined and superficial things.

Eldar [00:08:54]:
Mmm. Right.

Anatoliy [00:08:55]:
And there. And it's just like a continuation from there. So it's, it's, it's like it's only bound to happen that you're not really.

Eldar [00:09:05]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:09:05]:
If you're talking about, like, if you're uneducated on this kind of stuff and your foundation and stuff like that is built on more superficial or like, or these kinds of things, you're definitely going to be prone towards not being sure exactly of what, what makes you happy and.

Eldar [00:09:26]:
Yeah, but how do you get an idea or some kind of a hint that your stuff is actually built on superficial stuff versus the real stuff?

Phillip [00:09:34]:
You keep suffering.

Eldar [00:09:37]:
Okay.

Phillip [00:09:38]:
And you have to know, I guess be honest with yourself and say.

Eldar [00:09:45]:
If.

Phillip [00:09:45]:
I keep running into the same patterns constantly, constantly, constantly. Again, why am I doing this? It's being honest with yourself and also allowing an outside opinion, maybe from a group, to get like an outside perspective. Because we were saying, how is this person that's sick gonna diagnose themselves?

Eldar [00:10:04]:
Right.

Phillip [00:10:04]:
So that's kind of what came to mind. I think we were talking about that also this week.

Anatoliy [00:10:09]:
Yeah, yeah. I definitely think that, like, a big, big step is, first off, consciously knowing that you are suffering. Like, being aware that, like, hey, like, I actually am unhappy.

Eldar [00:10:20]:
Right.

Eldar [00:10:21]:
And, yeah, but also, it's even beginning there. I have so many questions as to, like, how do you even do that?

Eldar [00:10:26]:
You know what I mean?

Eldar [00:10:27]:
Like you're saying, hey, like, like you said, a lot of people are just going, they're setting goals, be a short term or long term, following those goals, then finding out that their, their goals are not being met. So they become unhappy. Then they, they kind of revise the goal or rejustify some bullshit in their heads.

Eldar [00:10:44]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:10:44]:
One, one big variable there is that it is absolutely not okay for people to not be happy and have.

Eldar [00:10:54]:
And.

Anatoliy [00:10:55]:
Have nobody take the blame for it.

Eldar [00:10:59]:
Say that again.

Anatoliy [00:11:00]:
Like, it is absolutely unacceptable for people to be unhappy and not sure where the blame is.

Eldar [00:11:07]:
It's unacceptable.

Anatoliy [00:11:08]:
It's unacceptable.

Eldar [00:11:09]:
No.

Anatoliy [00:11:09]:
So people, if you're unhappy. I would say that there's a very high chance that there is a person or just something in mind that has caused this unhappiness like everybody has. Like the, there's no trial here. Trying to figure out why there is, there's already, there's guilty party parties already established for people. And that's what I'm saying is that I feel like, well, they'd be almost.

Eldar [00:11:34]:
Saying that those people, since they live in an unexamined life, they're following unexamined goals and conclusions. They're gonna continue to do the unexamined thing by assigning the wrong blame to write areas.

Anatoliy [00:11:46]:
Exactly. Because it's an absolutely uncomfortable and unfamiliar feel feeling to just suffer and not know why.

Eldar [00:11:54]:
And obviously nobody wants to do that.

Anatoliy [00:11:57]:
Currently people feel, yeah, I feel overall they feel uncomfortable. We're just saying, hey, like, like uh.

Eldar [00:12:04]:
Yeah, I mean what you're trying to say is ultimately, right. Humble, humble yourself, come, come across humility. Find a way to be humble enough to be able to say and allow somebody else to point out some of these problems.

Eldar [00:12:17]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [00:12:18]:
So then, so then, you know, you make this claim about people not knowing and stuff like that. Isn't it a perfectly justified equation here that what's happening, this phenomenon?

Anatoliy [00:12:32]:
No, no. Yeah, it definitely, like the steps as to how you get there make sense, but I just think it's such like a large universal like problem problem that maybe if we shed some light on it, people will begin to, to ask, like start by asking probably themselves some questions and then hopefully if they can be alright with a temporary state of not being able to answer them, they can potentially seek the right help.

Eldar [00:12:59]:
Where do you start? How do you do it?

Anatoliy [00:13:01]:
Well, what do you mean?

Eldar [00:13:03]:
Like, well you say you want to shed some light on with the process of actually maybe turning this ship around. What do you start?

Anatoliy [00:13:09]:
Yeah, like for example, like when the term in general, like what Philip said, like being honest with us, with yourself. To me it's a very interesting term.

Eldar [00:13:21]:
Right.

Anatoliy [00:13:22]:
Because like it's like be in the moment.

Eldar [00:13:24]:
What?

Eldar [00:13:24]:
It's like be in the moment.

Anatoliy [00:13:25]:
Yeah, like it's a very interesting concept because it's like, it's very hard to picture a scenario where you're consciously lying to yourself. Right. I think there's just like different mindsets and different moments in your life where you feel and think about things in different ways. But I don't know if there's a like a distinguishment between, like, like I, like, I don't know what it means. Like be honest with yourself outside of, like, you're yourself, right? You're creating these thoughts, these ideas, these goals, and. And that's who you are. Like, I don't know, like, how you can. Like.

Eldar [00:14:07]:
Like, it's. It's.

Anatoliy [00:14:08]:
It's also, like, how can you verify that you're being honest with yourself?

Eldar [00:14:11]:
Like, how can you prove that, Philip? Expand on that. Like, you know, this term, be honest with yourself, comes very easy for you. Why? I'm totally saying, hey, it's. It's a very confusing.

Eldar [00:14:21]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:14:22]:
Like, how can you. How can you, for example, like, logically prove to me that you're being honest with yourself?

Eldar [00:14:29]:
You're being. How do you.

Anatoliy [00:14:30]:
How do you know that there's not a bias that you're not aware of? How do you know that there's something you unaware of you're doing? Like, how can you be certain of that?

Eldar [00:14:40]:
You can't.

Phillip [00:14:40]:
And I think when somebody's saying you're being honest, you're being honest with whatever version of that person that is there. Right there. Right. So, I mean, if you're being the person that's diagnosing it, me being myself, if I'm saying I'm being honest with myself, I'm being honest with the thoughts and the feelings that I have right now. In order for me to get out of those, I think you have to be really creative or be really willing to, like, dive deeper into yourself.

Eldar [00:15:05]:
Willing. Explain the willing part. Are you so willing? Or, like, how'd you get there? To be willing to be able to, you know, take. Take brutal honesty, for example, to others that what you're actually feeling?

Phillip [00:15:19]:
So, yeah, I think, yeah, we were talking about it today, and I think throughout the week, and I. I think it is realizing your suffering and then getting to the point of saying, I need help, and I don't know what to do. And once you say you don't know what to do, you're removing your ego from the situation. You're saying, I'm not going to try to research. I'm not going to try to diagnose. I'm going to basically leave it up to God or leave it up to my group of friends or family or somebody else to say, hey, push me in the right direction, or show me the way, because I'm so lost, and I've been trying for so long to do x, y, and z. Like, I don't know what to do. So I think there's a humility there.

Phillip [00:16:02]:
And to me, that's like a brutal honesty where, like, you're stripping down all the layers. And I think that, to me, would be, like, my definition of, I guess, truth.

Eldar [00:16:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:16:12]:
But how do you get there, to that. To that moment?

Eldar [00:16:14]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:16:15]:
Also, what does it mean to not be honest with yourself?

Eldar [00:16:17]:
What.

Anatoliy [00:16:17]:
What. What does that look like?

Phillip [00:16:19]:
I think you can define it in multiple ways.

Eldar [00:16:22]:
You could bring examples, obviously.

Eldar [00:16:24]:
Yeah.

Phillip [00:16:24]:
I think, like, the way that you could, like, look at me and you can say, like, okay, if you see something, like, specific that you know is a truth.

Eldar [00:16:31]:
Right.

Phillip [00:16:32]:
And you see me talking about it, you can say, like, oh, he's not being honest with himself because, like, I know clearly he's saying something that's not correct or that's not maybe useful.

Eldar [00:16:40]:
Okay, very good.

Anatoliy [00:16:41]:
Yeah, see, that was what I was gonna say next. Like, based on what I'm hearing so far, I don't think us as individuals can. Can verify or 100% be sure that we were being honest with ourselves. I think the only way to figure out if an individual is being honest with themselves is to probably have outside judgment on this situation. So I think an outside person needs to ask certain questions and be able to examine, like, the. The words and the answers being sent said with.

Eldar [00:17:15]:
With.

Anatoliy [00:17:16]:
Without bias, and that only then can it be determined if an individual is being honest with themselves or not.

Eldar [00:17:25]:
Hmm.

Anatoliy [00:17:27]:
But you as an individual, like, but.

Eldar [00:17:28]:
There'S the other person who's receiving that information. Has to have some kind of inside information almost, or some knowledge.

Eldar [00:17:34]:
Yeah.

Phillip [00:17:35]:
What's their qualification?

Eldar [00:17:36]:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Anatoliy [00:17:37]:
I definitely don't think it could be just like a. Like an.

Eldar [00:17:40]:
A random.

Eldar [00:17:41]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:17:42]:
Random individual.

Eldar [00:17:42]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:17:43]:
It probably has to be someone that. That, like, knows your character, knows who you are.

Eldar [00:17:47]:
Okay.

Anatoliy [00:17:47]:
So. No.

Eldar [00:17:49]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:17:49]:
Has some competency.

Eldar [00:17:50]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:17:51]:
Knows a bit about you.

Eldar [00:17:53]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:17:53]:
And is able to, like, speak on things properly.

Eldar [00:17:55]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:17:56]:
If you don't have that kind of person.

Eldar [00:17:58]:
Yeah.

Phillip [00:17:58]:
I mean, he's describing himself.

Eldar [00:18:01]:
No.

Phillip [00:18:01]:
As the qualified. Sure. He wants to say him.

Eldar [00:18:04]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:18:06]:
Or does every person has that kind of person?

Eldar [00:18:09]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:18:10]:
The thing is that, like.

Eldar [00:18:11]:
Like, does everybody has those people if they actually look and if they actually pay attention? Or some people just don't have them at all? Or is it because they don't have them because their egos and pride is so high, therefore they don't have them?

Eldar [00:18:24]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:18:25]:
I think either everybody has one probably close to them or. Or far away from them, but that far away from them. If that person's far away from them, it's because they prefer it that way.

Eldar [00:18:35]:
Mmm. Okay.

Anatoliy [00:18:37]:
That's definitely, like, a preference that's interesting.

Mike [00:18:40]:
Are people doing these things because it's a coping mechanism for them, but they think they're happy because, you know, food makes you happy for that short period of time, if you want to call it happiness. But I think it's maybe a misuse of the word.

Anatoliy [00:18:52]:
So you're saying misuse the word in the sense that, like the happiness that you get from like the food. Are you talking about or are you talking about like the long term happiness?

Mike [00:19:03]:
I'm thinking about everything. Everything about the word happy. I think. I think it's completely misunderstood. Because as I'm thinking more about happiness, it cannot be separate from virtues. Right, that's my thought.

Phillip [00:19:17]:
So if you're honest with yourself, can't you realize that you're doing it for a certain reason? Can't you do that without outside help? Like for that level of happiness?

Eldar [00:19:27]:
Right.

Phillip [00:19:27]:
Like if it's a food example.

Mike [00:19:29]:
Oh, I wasn't tying it into that.

Phillip [00:19:30]:
No, I wasn't tying into that.

Mike [00:19:32]:
No, I was just asking about the first 1st part. Because you're saying that, you know, people, a lot of times they think that something's making them happy, but it's not. They might be confused about it. My problem is that the people are misunderstanding what happiness actually looks like because they defined it. And you said like in material ways, right? In superficial ways. Right. But I think there's also other ways. I guess that if you're not living a virtuous life or examining your life like, then I don't think you can be happy because you're living.

Mike [00:20:07]:
Yeah, I just don't see a. Happiness and virtue can't are separate, you know? And a lot of times people don't think about that like.

Anatoliy [00:20:15]:
No, yeah, that's what I was saying.

Mike [00:20:17]:
Like go hand in hand for the most part from what I'm, you know.

Anatoliy [00:20:22]:
No, yeah, that's what I was saying.

Eldar [00:20:24]:
That.

Anatoliy [00:20:25]:
That, that's what I was saying before is that I feel like people are like. Cuz like when I'm talking about just like parts of happiness, it's probably feeling based, right? Like it's a.

Eldar [00:20:37]:
It's.

Anatoliy [00:20:38]:
It's a feeling, but there's.

Mike [00:20:39]:
Well, I think happiness is something else. It's not just a feet. It's in a very simple sense.

Eldar [00:20:44]:
Right.

Mike [00:20:44]:
And like a functioning of day to day everybody's life. Like the most majority of society, it's probably a feeling. I think it's more of like a virtue thing, you know, in the.

Anatoliy [00:20:55]:
No, but I think that those.

Mike [00:20:56]:
If you talk about it.

Anatoliy [00:20:57]:
No, no, I agree with that. But I also think that, like, those are all still tied to, to a feeling that, like, they're still with those virtues. There's still feelings that are derived from that. But I was saying more before that the confusion of what makes you happy or not or like the superficial things. I think that's where the longstanding confusion has stem from is because it, I think it's universal that people are seeking sustainable, like ongoing happiness.

Eldar [00:21:31]:
Right?

Anatoliy [00:21:31]:
Yeah, whatever the definitions are. And the issue is that when you're, when you're seeking that kind of stuff in the non correct things, let's say the non virtuous things, right? You find yourself that, you constantly run out of fuel, always on all of those things, right? And that's where the suffering hits. And then there's like a bit of like a, like anger, there's a confusion, right? There's all those things that happen from it and it's kind of like not, not always knowing why it's happening. But I guess like the whole overarching root, root of it is that like you're, you're seeking happiness or pleasure in things that run out of and.

Mike [00:22:15]:
Yeah, but also I don't, I'm not even sure if it's run out. I would say it's like, for me, the way I just thought about is like, you're not gonna go search for happiness where it doesn't exist. You're not gonna go fishing, right, in a fucking mountains, right? You're gonna go fishing in a lake or a river or fucking, you know, stream, because that's where fish are. That's where you find things to fish for, not in. The problem is people are searching for happiness there, but it doesn't exist there. It's not a real happiness. I think it's just illusionary maybe, you know?

Eldar [00:22:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:22:53]:
So, Mike. Yeah, Mike, if I understood you correctly, if I understood you correctly, you are tying happiness directly to virtue, right? So means, like for example, honesty, we can bring back. What we're talking about is honesty. If you're an honest person, that's a virtue, right? And you hold that close to your heart and close to your belief system, then you will be acting out of honesty. So your actions will correct and you will receive the benefits that. Yes, correct. So if you are virtuous person, an example of honesty, you are honest person and you act out of honesty, then you will receive the benefits and the happiness and pleasure that the virtue of honesty itself embodies.

Anatoliy [00:23:44]:
So my question is in general, for example, the pursuit of happiness is this a natural, innate desire that man is born with? Or is this the desire to be happy? Is that a natural, innate thing that you're born with? Or is that a, like a. How do we say it? Or is that more. Or is that a learned behavior that.

Eldar [00:24:18]:
You know, I mean, I think the.

Mike [00:24:20]:
Real, real happiness, it's inherent, innate in us. But the, the new version that everybody seems to be following that is developed in on Titan.

Phillip [00:24:31]:
See, I think I. So when I hear happy, so I don't know who it was. I was listening to somebody, I don't know, Eckertol or somebody. They were talking about happiness and they were talking about it being associated with a feeling because it is fleeting. It's coming and it's going. So they talked about, instead of happiness, it's about peace. Because at peace, like you can have stillness and you can have more of a balance with it. And it's like a more of an attainable thing that you can get as a result of being aligned with your virtues.

Phillip [00:25:01]:
Versus happiness is something that is seem to be like almost outside of yourself or received as a result from like pleasurable activities. And that's why I think most people associate happy with like eating or like sensory things. Like, you know, seeing something, maybe a movie, going shopping. And like, remember, Mike, we're walking down like Spring street and we're having the conversation of like these people, like buying certain apartments, buying certain things, thinking they're getting love or thinking they're getting happiness. But what they're really doing is going outside of themselves and getting like these, like fleeting pleasures. But like, these people, you know, myself included, would be guilty of associating like happy positive feelings with these things. But they're not, they're not sustainable. So when I think of like happiness, I don't think of it as something that's like attached to virtue.

Phillip [00:25:53]:
I look at it more of like something outside of myself that can be pleasurable, really, but not something that like I'd want or look for, for like a day to day that like I can create. That's something that I'm saying, okay, if I do x, y and z, if I'm a virtuous person, if I'm being honest with myself and I'm looking for outside help and I'm asking, hey, what am I doing wrong? I'm looking for peace. I don't think, I think happiness a totally separate thing from my definition of it and how I perceive it.

Mike [00:26:24]:
Peace and happiness that might be tied together like Yin Yang, but they are tied you know, together, I think.

Phillip [00:26:41]:
But how do you look at happiness? Like, say, if I'm looking at it more from, like, it. It's outside of you, it's pleasurable things. You're looking at happiness attached to virtue. So how would you define happiness differently from how I define the podcast?

Eldar [00:26:55]:
Right.

Mike [00:26:55]:
In the conversations that we have, do you guys extract happiness from it?

Eldar [00:26:59]:
I feel happy, yeah.

Eldar [00:27:01]:
Yeah, yeah.

Phillip [00:27:05]:
I would say. I would say it's deeper than happiness.

Eldar [00:27:10]:
Sure, sure.

Eldar [00:27:11]:
But that piece is more deeper than happiness.

Phillip [00:27:13]:
I think so.

Eldar [00:27:14]:
You think so?

Phillip [00:27:15]:
I think if I. Yeah, if I had to say which I say peace is something like, inside you, that's more.

Eldar [00:27:23]:
Associate peace with a pleasure or pleasure.

Phillip [00:27:25]:
No.

Eldar [00:27:26]:
State or pain? State.

Phillip [00:27:28]:
Oh, pleasure or pain. I would say it's. It's balance. It's not either, but the piece.

Eldar [00:27:35]:
Does peace feel good or this peaceful bad?

Phillip [00:27:38]:
I wouldn't associate peace with feelings. That's why I think it's separate from happiness.

Eldar [00:27:42]:
So is.

Anatoliy [00:27:42]:
What, what is, if peace is not a feeling, what is it? Show me how. You tell me in a scenario that you are being. That you are peaceful without, like, having a word that involves they.

Eldar [00:28:00]:
Good.

Anatoliy [00:28:01]:
No, yeah, yeah.

Eldar [00:28:02]:
Good.

Anatoliy [00:28:02]:
Or that you felt, assert with. Without a feeling being involved.

Eldar [00:28:06]:
Hmm.

Phillip [00:28:11]:
I would say peace if I had to attach a feeling to it.

Eldar [00:28:16]:
It's good. It's definitely.

Phillip [00:28:19]:
It's positive. It's calm, it's calming.

Eldar [00:28:22]:
It's. It's.

Phillip [00:28:22]:
I would say it's good.

Eldar [00:28:24]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Phillip [00:28:26]:
I mean, it's not bad. So if it's not bad, then we're.

Eldar [00:28:30]:
Trying to reduce it to.

Phillip [00:28:31]:
It would be good. I just. I guess pleasure, to me, is not the word that I'm thinking of.

Eldar [00:28:38]:
He's playing hard to get, Mike.

Phillip [00:28:39]:
Yeah, I am playing hard to get.

Eldar [00:28:43]:
It.

Eldar [00:28:43]:
Why?

Mike [00:28:45]:
Because.

Eldar [00:28:51]:
Oh, my God, why you have to go there, Mike?

Anatoliy [00:28:54]:
You got to be, like, quiet and like.

Eldar [00:28:56]:
That's pretty fucked up.

Phillip [00:28:57]:
So you. Okay, so if you're attaching peace and happiness. So what do you think the difference is, though?

Anatoliy [00:29:04]:
Think that probably the reality is that, like, it if you can't attach.

Mike [00:29:13]:
But happiness is probably the overarching guy. He's like the top dog. Like, love, right? Love is the top dog of everything. You know, for me, I believe that.

Eldar [00:29:22]:
And.

Mike [00:29:22]:
But within it, it has a lot of other, like, avenues, and I think they're all kind of. Yeah.

Phillip [00:29:29]:
So you think happy. You think happiness is a virtue? See, like, I don't think happiness is a virtue. I toast. I associate more with, like, a feeling that, like, can come and go peace. To me.

Eldar [00:29:57]:
When you practice virtue, like honesty.

Eldar [00:30:00]:
Right.

Eldar [00:30:00]:
When you come and you're vulnerable with yourself and with others.

Eldar [00:30:05]:
Right.

Eldar [00:30:06]:
And you, through that conversation, from being honest and vulnerable, you come to truth. Right. When you've gotten the truth, it feels good.

Eldar [00:30:16]:
Yeah. Right.

Eldar [00:30:17]:
It feels liberating. It could be feel. Afterwards, it can also feel peaceful.

Eldar [00:30:21]:
Right.

Eldar [00:30:21]:
Because you finally calmed that turmoil that was causing you pain, which finally led you to be vulnerable and open and honest.

Eldar [00:30:30]:
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:30:31]:
I feel like.

Eldar [00:30:31]:
Right.

Anatoliy [00:30:32]:
If you can't extract happiness from peace, you haven't had enough peace yet.

Eldar [00:30:37]:
Okay. Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:30:39]:
Like, I think it takes a certain amount of peace.

Eldar [00:30:41]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:30:42]:
To be able to. To understand what's going on and to extract, like, happiness.

Eldar [00:30:46]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:30:47]:
From that peace.

Eldar [00:30:48]:
Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Phillip [00:30:50]:
You know, so we're saying you can get happiness.

Eldar [00:30:53]:
I actually think that Eckhart Tolle is actually very happy. I think so because of the piece too. You know what I mean? Because he has that ability, like he said, to extract and fulfill. Fulfill himself through peace.

Eldar [00:31:06]:
Right.

Eldar [00:31:06]:
Through valuing peace and being the way he is and not what makes him internally happy.

Mike [00:31:11]:
And I also don't think that one. The happiness that is extracted from the honest conversations.

Eldar [00:31:16]:
Right.

Mike [00:31:16]:
Being honest yourself and others, I don't think that's like a. I don't think that's a fleeting thing. Not the same as going to, like, a nice restaurant or going to a nice. I don't know, vacation. You forget about that vacation because at the end of the day, there's things that have more, I don't know, I think more value in our lives. Right?

Eldar [00:31:33]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:31:34]:
Like being honest, being kind, being generous, being considerate, compassionate.

Eldar [00:31:39]:
Right.

Mike [00:31:39]:
All those, like, nice, nice, fancy words, right? They have a look. They leave a bigger mark than just a vacation.

Eldar [00:31:46]:
Right.

Mike [00:31:47]:
And the vacation I remember, right. So much, it's like, yeah, I was there.

Eldar [00:31:51]:
I did this.

Mike [00:31:52]:
But I think something else is remembered much more than that. I think there's a reason for that.

Eldar [00:31:56]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:31:57]:
I think the difference, like, I think, like, the clear separator, is that, like, the. Like, the comparison, I think here is that if something is a virtue, right. If practiced forever, and if repetitively done, you pretty much guarantee yourself repetitive happiness. If you got put you on vacation forever, it doesn't mean that you'll be happy.

Eldar [00:32:24]:
This is correct.

Eldar [00:32:25]:
Correct.

Anatoliy [00:32:26]:
Because vacation does feel. Does bring you happiness.

Eldar [00:32:29]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:32:30]:
But for a very small period of time. Because what does vacation mean? Like, it's just like a temporary kind of. Like it's a physical escape to a particular place or area that vacation is.

Mike [00:32:42]:
Like, yo, I can't wait to go on vacation. Fucking hate my job. And what do you do? You go on there, you forget for three days, you get pissed drunk, and you come back to your miserable fucking job, and you're like, yo, I need another vacation again. Like, that's clearly. It doesn't sound like that's the way it's supposed to be. Life, you know, that you just live from fucking vacation.

Eldar [00:33:01]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:33:02]:
And that's why I think a lot of people associate vacations with happiness, right. And what makes them happy and travel and stuff like that. Because what actually is, what they're doing, actually, is they're breaking away from their mundane lives and.

Eldar [00:33:13]:
Right.

Eldar [00:33:13]:
And stressful jobs, like you said.

Eldar [00:33:15]:
Right.

Eldar [00:33:16]:
And then they're like, okay, this, like, I feel really good on vacation. You know, I need another vacation. You know? And they think that vacation, going away and traveling is actually what inducing them the happiness. And this goes back to Toli's point, right? They're under an impression that. That this is what brings them happiness, but it's not that at all. It's them disconnecting from work for a period of time that's actually leading to them feeling more at peace or whatever it is for that moment.

Eldar [00:33:41]:
Right. Yeah.

Mike [00:33:42]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:33:44]:
I mean, everything's leading to the fact that, yeah, this is true, but it's also the equation, like I said, is very justified. If people experiencing this, you know, they. They almost earned it, you know, Mike.

Mike [00:33:56]:
Oh, yeah, yeah. When you guys were talking about it, that made me think of that is like, unfortunately, I guess. Unfortunately, whatever it is about whatever it's a doctor casing, you know, it's like, it just kind of like you. You are where you are in your life because of the choices you made and the choices that people have made for you, you know?

Eldar [00:34:15]:
Yeah, I think.

Eldar [00:34:17]:
No, yeah.

Anatoliy [00:34:18]:
I think that we're fortunate that one plus one equals two.

Eldar [00:34:20]:
Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Eldar [00:34:23]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:34:23]:
The logic exists and that you can deduce.

Eldar [00:34:25]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:34:26]:
If that did not exist and, oh, I mean, like, life would just kind of be more of a crap shoot.

Eldar [00:34:31]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [00:34:33]:
No, for sure.

Anatoliy [00:34:34]:
You know?

Eldar [00:34:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:34:35]:
And interesting, you know, you guys watching the question? I was thinking about how do you, like. You know the question, you guys are not in these words, but how do you unlock the mind? Like, how do you. If you understand this? Or how do you understand this?

Eldar [00:34:48]:
Like, trying to terrorize.

Mike [00:34:51]:
And I made you think about the matrix, like what he said, like, yo, sometimes the mind can unlock it, you know, or something like that.

Eldar [00:34:58]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:34:58]:
You know, it made me think that, yeah, maybe it's not everybody's meant to unlock this shit, you know?

Eldar [00:35:04]:
At least not in this lifetime.

Mike [00:35:06]:
In this lifetime, maybe not. Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:35:09]:
But Mike. Mike has a dangerous browsing history in the last 24 hours.

Phillip [00:35:14]:
Oh, yeah. It's gotta scrub the whole thing.

Eldar [00:35:19]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:35:21]:
So, Phil, how do you come about to be more humble and have humility, to be able to, you know, be vulnerable and open and honest in order to get yourself. To free yourself ultimately from suffering?

Phillip [00:35:33]:
Um.

Eldar [00:35:34]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:35:34]:
How did you come to value that?

Phillip [00:35:36]:
I. I think we talked about, um. Oh, how did I come to value that?

Eldar [00:35:41]:
Well, that's what's setting you free, right?

Phillip [00:35:43]:
Uh, yeah, I think it's, um, allowing myself to understand that there's certain things that you've been doing that haven't been working for you, and you have to basically re examine those things. So being humble enough to then say, okay, I've been doing x, y, and z wrong for, I don't know, very long time, and I'm open to hear basically new ideas, maybe how you have.

Eldar [00:36:08]:
To come to a point where you will complete beat up dog.

Phillip [00:36:11]:
I think you have to suffer enough, but then also, I think you have to be wanting to change also. So if you're just saying, okay, I'm doing something wrong, but if I'm saying, hey, listen, like, I'm just. I'm good with where I'm at. I'm really comfortable. I think we're talking about, you know, people being sick, right? Like, if you're sick, right, somebody can be giving you the medicine, right? But if you're not willing to basically accept that thing, there's a comfort in you sitting there and basking in your shit, right? Like, so you have to be able to be saying, okay, I'm willing to get a little dirty and uncomfortable to, like, get out of my shell, and then to achieve what? We're talking about peace. We're talking about happiness. I'm still not clear on both the definitions, but just for the sake of the conversation, we'll say, like, we're saying happiness, right? Ultimately, everybody wants to be happy, right? Like, everybody wants to feel good versus feeling bad. Like, I think everybody deep down wants to feel that.

Phillip [00:37:10]:
So if you suffer enough and you're saying, okay, I'm feeling pain, I don't know what's going on. I don't know. I don't like my job. I don't. I don't like my spouse. I don't like the relationship that I'm in. Like what? Like, what gets you to change that? And to me, it starts with pain and then getting to the point where you're honest with yourself and saying, I know that I'm sick. I know that I made a mistake and I don't know how to change.

Phillip [00:37:33]:
So to me, that's. That's when I'm saying honest, I think you're. That's as honest as you can be with yourself in the moment, saying, you don't know. You don't know what you don't know or you don't know how to change something.

Eldar [00:37:46]:
That's admirable, but just not sure a lot of people can do it.

Eldar [00:37:52]:
Yeah. Because.

Eldar [00:37:52]:
Because like you said, a lot of people won't take that medicine. A lot of people will continue to do what's comfortable, I guess. Or they might not even believe you. Like, how do you know that you have the answers to. To their suffering?

Eldar [00:38:04]:
Mmm.

Anatoliy [00:38:04]:
Yeah. Also, even if you say, I don't know. Yeah, I still don't think that's also.

Eldar [00:38:10]:
Selling point, because we've seen plenty of.

Anatoliy [00:38:12]:
Times where people were like, someone doesn't know the answer to something.

Eldar [00:38:14]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:38:15]:
You give somebody the answer something, then. Then that doesn't sit well with them. So it's not like. Cuz, like.

Eldar [00:38:21]:
Correct.

Anatoliy [00:38:21]:
If you don't know. Here's the. No. Okay, now. Now you should just know.

Eldar [00:38:25]:
Right.

Anatoliy [00:38:26]:
No. What happens is that, like, that information comes to you and then resistance happens.

Eldar [00:38:32]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:38:32]:
And this is, this is a good example because, Phil, recently we spoke about something on the walk, and. And we gave you something.

Eldar [00:38:38]:
Right.

Eldar [00:38:39]:
Based on how you opened up and stuff, we gave you the answer. You said, hey, I agree with this, but I'm not there yet, and I can't execute it yet.

Eldar [00:38:45]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [00:38:45]:
I don't forgot what it was. But you just recently said this, and.

Anatoliy [00:38:49]:
That'S the thing with this, mom.

Eldar [00:38:50]:
Yeah.

Phillip [00:38:51]:
So we're talking about two different things. So we're talking about being able to accept it. So if you're being honest with yourself and saying, like, I know that I've been doing this wrong, and then also being able to accept the information, like, if you're giving me the answer when somebody's sick, I'm giving them the answer saying, hey, you can go to this doctor. If they're not willing to change it. The benefit that we talked about is they get to still remain comfortable in their situation.

Eldar [00:39:15]:
Yeah.

Phillip [00:39:15]:
It's like, that's that. Like, they get to stay, like, comfortable. Not growing, not getting rid of the problem, but, like, they get to stay.

Anatoliy [00:39:22]:
There so then they actually don't know.

Eldar [00:39:24]:
And so. But.

Anatoliy [00:39:25]:
But they can't say that they don't know.

Eldar [00:39:27]:
Right.

Anatoliy [00:39:27]:
Like, you can't say that.

Eldar [00:39:29]:
So. Yeah, so.

Phillip [00:39:30]:
So you got the knowledge, but then there's also the acceptance. It's like allowing it in.

Anatoliy [00:39:34]:
Well, no, if you actually don't know, you actually have an actual true moment of not knowing. And it's like an honest not know when you get the. No, I don't think there could be anything but application.

Phillip [00:39:50]:
So that person that's getting the information might not have been asking for the information.

Anatoliy [00:39:56]:
That person was getting information is not honestly saying that they don't know. They know some stuff.

Eldar [00:40:04]:
Yeah, I think it might be a cover up.

Anatoliy [00:40:06]:
Yeah, they know some stuff. And you can see that. That textbook better.

Eldar [00:40:11]:
Yeah, my.

Eldar [00:40:11]:
Go ahead, Mike. Mike, go ahead.

Mike [00:40:14]:
Yeah, I was saying that that person is not hundred percent convinced that they don't know. They still. There's some little bit of doubt and they're not fully trusting.

Eldar [00:40:21]:
Correct. And I think. And I think totally is right. As soon as they do have a glimpse of, like, they actually don't know, that's when action actually starts.

Eldar [00:40:29]:
Yeah. What.

Anatoliy [00:40:30]:
What happens? This is a very plain, very, like, very basic example.

Eldar [00:40:34]:
Right.

Anatoliy [00:40:35]:
Let's say I don't have a. I don't have a smartphone.

Eldar [00:40:37]:
Which. Which.

Anatoliy [00:40:38]:
Which I don't right now.

Eldar [00:40:39]:
Right.

Eldar [00:40:39]:
Can we accept the fact that you're gonna be laying down throughout the whole session?

Eldar [00:40:42]:
What?

Eldar [00:40:43]:
No, we're not gonna accept that.

Eldar [00:40:45]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:40:46]:
You're gonna keep lying to yourself.

Eldar [00:40:47]:
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:40:49]:
I'm saying that. A very simple example. Let's say I want the phone number to a place. I'm trying to, like, call them. I don't have a smartphone.

Eldar [00:40:58]:
Okay.

Anatoliy [00:40:59]:
Now I'm like, elder, what's the phone number? When you give me the phone number, what do I do?

Eldar [00:41:05]:
No.

Eldar [00:41:05]:
Oh, dial it.

Anatoliy [00:41:06]:
I dial it.

Eldar [00:41:07]:
Okay. Right.

Anatoliy [00:41:08]:
Yeah, I don't know what it is.

Eldar [00:41:09]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:41:10]:
You're telling me it, and I'm taking the action right away.

Eldar [00:41:12]:
Right away.

Eldar [00:41:14]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:41:14]:
Like that. That's a very, like, black and white, simple example. Yeah, but when you actually don't know and someone's giving it to you, you're just typing it in and calling it.

Eldar [00:41:22]:
Right.

Anatoliy [00:41:24]:
Like, there's clear instance of I don't know and there's immediate action that happens because you actually don't know. But what. What you're saying is that, like, I'm not fully sure here. Like, what you're actually saying is that I have a bunch of assumptions that I'm probably not aware of, or maybe I am and I'm not willing to share them, but I do want to hear what you have to say.

Eldar [00:41:46]:
Hmm.

Anatoliy [00:41:47]:
Not that you don't actually know.

Eldar [00:41:48]:
That same example that you talked about when he asked me for opinions and stuff like that. He doesn't really want to know because he has already precondition some oceans, his own stuff.

Anatoliy [00:42:00]:
And that's what I'm saying, is that it is extremely hard, and I think, almost impossible for you to prove. Like, I can't picture a scenario where you prove to me that you're being honest with, like, with, with yourself.

Eldar [00:42:13]:
That's me.

Anatoliy [00:42:14]:
Why I was saying is that, like, you can only answer particular questions and, and, like, the people who you're telling them to can, can pass judgment on whether you're being honest with yourself.

Eldar [00:42:26]:
Yes.

Phillip [00:42:26]:
You have an attachment to a belief already where you're, you're defining that as me having a partial answer. So I don't fully not know yet, because there is something inside of me where I'm saying I do know. And it's the attachment to that belief. So to me, it's when I'm saying acceptance, I'm saying you're fully removing yourself from that belief and allowing yourself to say, I'm accepting of this information. And then we're defining it as essentially not having any attachment to that past belief, truly not knowing and going in with a total blank slate.

Eldar [00:43:00]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:43:01]:
Yeah. But you can have a lag, I would say. And most people do. And I think it's just when, like, we sprinkle the truth around, right, and see where it's gonna sprout, sooner or later, they'll come to that truth. You know what I mean? Some do it faster, some do it slower. You know what I mean? In your example about the mom, you actually then turn that around really quick and messaged her.

Phillip [00:43:20]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [00:43:21]:
With a resolve.

Phillip [00:43:22]:
It made sense to me.

Eldar [00:43:24]:
It clicked.

Eldar [00:43:24]:
Yeah, clicked.

Eldar [00:43:25]:
It clicked. And you actually did something about it. How did you feel afterwards?

Phillip [00:43:29]:
Very good.

Eldar [00:43:30]:
Very good.

Eldar [00:43:31]:
Yeah.

Phillip [00:43:31]:
Right now I don't know. Now I'm not thinking about it.

Eldar [00:43:34]:
So, yeah, so it's very interesting because you had an attachment. You had maybe a preconceived notion yourself, which was not really serving you. So the question will be, was it, was it not serving you for this long that you like, you know what? I'm fucking dropping this the way I do it. This made sense, and I'm gonna take a new step. Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, how did how did the turnaround came so fast? Cause I don't like when I see it. To me, it's fascinating because I see how turnarounds usually happen, and it's a month long things, endeavors. You know what I mean?

Phillip [00:44:07]:
I think we, like, a lot of these things go on for so long, right?

Eldar [00:44:10]:
Oh, Mike ended the call.

Phillip [00:44:12]:
So a lot of these things go on for a really long time, right? Like, especially things with family and, like. Yeah, so I would say that a lot of these things go on for a really long time, right? Say it's a, you know, things with parents, things with friends that you've known for a long time, just things about yourself, whatever you carry, beliefs, all that. So from this particular example, I would say that we're a bunch of guys that are talking about these things and examining, like, very, like, deep, like, profound topics. We're not talking about, like, surface level. We're not just going on walks talking about, like, yo, did you see the fucking new show this week? Blah, blah. Yeah, maybe it comes up. Like, we're like, that's not. That's maybe 2% of a conversation, right? Like, it's like, filler bullshit.

Phillip [00:44:52]:
So, like, most of the stuff we talk about is, like, relationships, you know, work, like, stuff that matters to us, stuff that we're passionate about or trying to find our purpose. And I guess being in that type of environment, there's a trust, and again, it's coming from a place of, like, an unbiased opinion. I think we all have our best interests in mind. I think we all want to see each other grow. So when I'm talking, I'm talking freely. I'm being open and vulnerable. There's a trusting environment where I know we're talking about this stuff, and it's an outside opinion. So for somebody.

Eldar [00:45:27]:
But.

Eldar [00:45:27]:
But the attachment to your own understanding of how the world is, is nonetheless there. And you were, like, you were open to say that, like, hey, I get it, but I'm not ready to execute yet. But then it was pretty quick turnaround. So you still have a fight in you. You know what I mean? The ego is still there somewhere to fight. To fight the truth. Yes, but the question, like, my question is always, what is the equation that makes it propel faster towards the right action?

Phillip [00:45:56]:
I think there's a moment, whatever it is, I think I was in. I was making juice.

Eldar [00:46:01]:
You were making juice, and then you came back and you're like, look what I did.

Phillip [00:46:04]:
And I'm like, holy shit, I was making juice. I think music was on. And I just realized, like, I think.

Eldar [00:46:09]:
When it hits, it doesn't hurt Bob Marley.

Eldar [00:46:10]:
Right? Yeah.

Phillip [00:46:11]:
So something just hits, and you're like, yeah, I'm wrong. But then I can accept that I'm wrong, and I can just fully say that, like, this. This is not the way that's serving me. Like, I'm. Whatever I'm doing so far, she's not moving forward with what I want. It's obviously the wrong way to look at it. You know, me thinking that I'm helping, I'm not helping, obviously.

Eldar [00:46:32]:
Right.

Phillip [00:46:32]:
So it's like, let's go with this approach. And maybe even if there is a little part, maybe, like, where there is a little ego, like, maybe far, far back, I'm saying to myself, I'm taking a shot at this one, and I think this one is right, and I'm going with this one. And afterwards, it felt. It felt good. So I think maybe some part of it, like, you can still maybe have a little bit of the ego attached where you're saying, hey, I'm gonna take this shot. And I feel good about this one. And I think this is the right one. And I think there's trust also in you guys saying, like, I hear how you guys talk about your family, and there's a lot of similar issues, and if you're dealing with it and you're giving me examples.

Eldar [00:47:08]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [00:47:09]:
How you're talking, what we do. That's number one.

Phillip [00:47:11]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure.

Eldar [00:47:13]:
So.

Eldar [00:47:13]:
And that's.

Eldar [00:47:13]:
That's.

Eldar [00:47:14]:
But we are good at what we do. I've seen examples with people. Different people. Nate, toli, Mike. You know what I mean? I've seen examples where the turnaround time.

Eldar [00:47:24]:
Dennis. Right.

Eldar [00:47:25]:
Is a lot longer. It's a lot longer.

Eldar [00:47:28]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:47:28]:
So my question is always to try to maybe lessen the amount of time. But I want to know what I'm working against and why.

Phillip [00:47:36]:
I. I think right now versus, like, probably, say, me three years ago when you met me, like, versus now.

Eldar [00:47:42]:
Yeah.

Phillip [00:47:42]:
I think I'm in a totally different place where I'm definitely more willing to open up. I have less ego. I realized that, you know, like, you know, you get older and you want more answers and, like, you want things to, like, actually happen. So I think there is more of an honesty with yourself. And I'm saying, hey, listen, that's interesting.

Eldar [00:48:03]:
Because you're bringing agents to the equation.

Eldar [00:48:05]:
Okay.

Phillip [00:48:06]:
Uh, yeah, I would say that's a bit.

Eldar [00:48:08]:
I think that's a big kicker here.

Phillip [00:48:09]:
I. Yeah, I would say me three years ago, I wouldn't have probably got there as quick. And what I'm doing now, and maybe hours or days would have probably been like weeks or months or years.

Eldar [00:48:19]:
All right, so you're beat up, dog.

Eldar [00:48:20]:
Got it.

Eldar [00:48:20]:
Yeah, you got beat up. How do you reach the young community? How do I. Mike, you hear me? You heard me.

Mike [00:48:27]:
Yeah, I heard what you said. Yeah, I think.

Eldar [00:48:29]:
I think.

Mike [00:48:30]:
What you saying? I don't know. Interesting point. If you're saying that, like you said, you eventually you get older and you're like, yo, I'm not getting.

Eldar [00:48:37]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:48:37]:
Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Exactly. That's what he said.

Eldar [00:48:41]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [00:48:42]:
How do you get to the 20, to the early twenties, the guys that are early twenties, mid twenties, late.

Phillip [00:48:49]:
What's your teacher, essentially?

Eldar [00:48:51]:
Like?

Phillip [00:48:51]:
Most people's teacher is pain.

Eldar [00:48:53]:
Right.

Phillip [00:48:53]:
Like, most people suffer.

Anatoliy [00:48:55]:
Like, you. You, like, have to exhaust. Exhaust options.

Eldar [00:48:59]:
What you're saying is I need to exhaust your ego and pride to a point where you're so beat up that, you know, you're a beggar.

Eldar [00:49:06]:
No.

Anatoliy [00:49:06]:
Yeah, no. Well, yeah, that's definitely one of them. But I also think that, like, you can get to a point where you exhaust your ego and pride.

Eldar [00:49:15]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:49:16]:
And that's, I think, where you can be pounced on.

Eldar [00:49:19]:
Well, yeah, that's 100%.

Eldar [00:49:21]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:49:21]:
But then also, the ego and pride rests very quick. It has sick recovery time. No ice needed.

Eldar [00:49:28]:
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:49:29]:
And it'll be back.

Eldar [00:49:31]:
It'll be back.

Mike [00:49:32]:
Because you also have ego and pride in many different, like, subjects. And, you know, you unlock one thing, maybe your relationship with your mom. Like you're saying, Phil, then you with your mom in that specific subject. Now you have a million different subjects where you have to unlock it, you know?

Eldar [00:49:47]:
No, but that subject is pretty big, Mike. It's tied to a lot of things, man. It's huge. You know what I mean? And I commend him, obviously, for doing this. But the age thing is. Is what? Very interesting here.

Phillip [00:49:59]:
So if you're younger, I think everybody's on a different trajectory and have it as a different journey. So, like, I think if you're 25, 26, like, who knows? Like, maybe somebody. So.

Eldar [00:50:13]:
That's.

Eldar [00:50:13]:
Right.

Eldar [00:50:13]:
So let.

Phillip [00:50:14]:
But let's. Right, let. So, let's say, for the most part, if I had to generalize it, I would agree with that. But let's just say there was a different example where somebody had, like, a fucking really tough life. They came from, like, a third world country. They had to deal with, like, a whole bunch of bullshit. They saw a lot more hardship than I saw where I grew up in the old suburban, like, middle class neighborhood.

Eldar [00:50:30]:
Introducing is a lot of factors, man.

Phillip [00:50:32]:
So there's a lot of factors. But I'm just saying, let's say for the sake of an example, right, somebody can technically be younger and deal with a lot more shit, and their ego can maybe, like, collapse a lot quicker than mine.

Eldar [00:50:43]:
Yeah.

Phillip [00:50:43]:
Right.

Anatoliy [00:50:44]:
The requirements still. To deal with a lot of shit.

Eldar [00:50:47]:
Yeah, he's still putting a lot of there.

Anatoliy [00:50:49]:
There's still a lot of shit.

Phillip [00:50:50]:
So we're saying that while we can, we. You can. So the other end of it is.

Eldar [00:50:55]:
To get beat up completely by life.

Eldar [00:50:56]:
No, no.

Anatoliy [00:50:57]:
You not deal with a lot of shit and actually logically deduce things and learn without dealing with shit.

Eldar [00:51:03]:
Yes.

Phillip [00:51:04]:
So can you do that? So you're saying, like, you can be inspired or you can get, like, the shit beat out.

Eldar [00:51:11]:
You're gonna get humbled.

Eldar [00:51:12]:
Yeah.

Phillip [00:51:13]:
So, I mean, do most people deal.

Anatoliy [00:51:14]:
With just get humbled or get fucked?

Eldar [00:51:19]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [00:51:20]:
You want a t shirt?

Anatoliy [00:51:21]:
Yeah, come on. Right.

Eldar [00:51:22]:
Yeah, I think.

Eldar [00:51:23]:
I think you said this before, and I think I already have that. Yeah, I think so. I think you said this exact quote.

Eldar [00:51:28]:
Yeah.

Phillip [00:51:28]:
Okay, but how many. How many people do you hear? Especially young people, right? I'm inspired. How many people are truly inspired and then they actually do something as a result of it? I'm saying not many people. Right. So, so in these examples, I think pain is most people's teacher.

Eldar [00:51:45]:
Right?

Phillip [00:51:45]:
Like the gambling. Like, how many people remember their wins and how many people remember their losses? Like, to me, that's just like a life example that everybody throws out, like.

Eldar [00:52:01]:
In the equation that we're faced against. Yes, Mike, right now.

Eldar [00:52:04]:
Yeah, because.

Eldar [00:52:05]:
Yes, but because we're trying to get more design like that.

Phillip [00:52:07]:
No, no, no. So, Mike, I think what I'm saying is to the. We're suffering to learn to get to the point, to break even, to where we can allow virtues, where we can allow this happiness that you're talking about. So then when we get to that point where we're. Where we're operating at this level where virtues are our foundation, then I think life becomes a lot different, and then it becomes this, like, you know, we're able to, like, you know, share love, give love, talk about purpose. All these, like, all these other conversations we're having about purpose, passion, happiness. Like, it's probably foreign to a lot of these people because they're operating at the level of, I haven't suffered enough yet, or I'm dealing with this, I'm inspired, but I'm not taking any action. What is that?

Eldar [00:52:49]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:52:50]:
Here's my next question regarding what you just said about I haven't suffered enough. My challenge is it's not that these people haven't suffered enough. I think they suffered enough. However, I think their pain tolerance is. Is very high.

Anatoliy [00:53:04]:
No, I don't even think it's that. I think that there's a difference between suffering, just general suffering, and aware suffering.

Eldar [00:53:14]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:53:14]:
Yeah, I agree with that, too. And I think that sensitivity.

Anatoliy [00:53:17]:
The worst.

Eldar [00:53:18]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:53:18]:
In general, I think the worst suffering.

Eldar [00:53:21]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:53:21]:
The worst suffering is paired with the realization that you are the cause of it.

Eldar [00:53:26]:
Okay.

Anatoliy [00:53:27]:
That is one that accelerates, I think, learning fast, humbleness.

Eldar [00:53:31]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:53:32]:
Getting humble and growth the fastest.

Eldar [00:53:34]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:53:34]:
Because there's different.

Eldar [00:53:35]:
A big difference.

Phillip [00:53:36]:
Yeah, but that's what. That's the one I'm talking about, though. See, that that one. See, but that. That one that I'm talking about involves having trust in the situation I just described. Having trust in a situation where we're openly talking about deep and profound topics, where I'm hearing examples from you guys, and I'm saying to myself very much, and. And I'm saying to myself, okay, I'm hearing what you guys are saying, and I'm getting an outside opinion, and I'm able to then look at myself if I'm just talking to myself or I'm writing it down, or I'm thinking about these things. Like, I'm not thinking about these things on a day to day when I'm on my own.

Phillip [00:54:08]:
Like, I were talking about these at work, and now they're becoming more of, like, a consistent thought pattern for me, but on a day to day basis before I was here, like, I wasn't thinking about this stuff on a consistent basis. Like, and even if I did, I don't think I would be making these kind of decisions to make changes about myself. Unless they were thrown out off of somebody else and giving me kind of feedback. I wouldn't know how to even start that.

Eldar [00:54:34]:
Yes. Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:54:34]:
I think that the answer might be that, like, why are people are unable to tie, like, their happiness and their sufferings together because they don't have enough feeling of self induced pain, like, true self induced pain.

Eldar [00:54:49]:
And I'm gonna build on, say this. What Mike wants the answers to, I think, is, I think that what we need to do is preserve or try to preserve the kids innocence and sensitivity.

Mike [00:55:03]:
Young kids innocence and what all that.

Eldar [00:55:05]:
Their sensitivity and their innocence.

Anatoliy [00:55:08]:
What does that mean?

Phillip [00:55:08]:
So, no, remember those examples that we were saying, like, if you're being bad, right? And in your f, in your family examples, remember the family examples were talking about, it's, hey, when, when you're in a family environment, like, logic's out the window. So everything is based off of, like, this bubble of, like, quote unquote love. And what you've, like, basically came to have a pattern with your family. So let's say you're being bad, right? And you're doing something that's, like, clearly wrong, and your family is essentially protecting you, and they're not giving you the truth, but you're operating in this bubble. So then when you go out and you hang out with us, you hang out with other people, you start to do these behaviors. If somebody tells you, like, hey, you're doing this wrong, you're like, no, no. Then you go back to your family and you say, like, hey, he was saying this. And then he's like, oh, like, don't worry, Philip.

Phillip [00:55:54]:
Like, everything. He's an idiot. He's fine. So, like, there's a bubble that you're operating in within this dynamic.

Eldar [00:56:00]:
There was an example when you said that you lied, right?

Phillip [00:56:03]:
When you were in school, right, when.

Eldar [00:56:04]:
You were a little kid, right?

Eldar [00:56:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:56:05]:
And also you had that sense of fear where you did something wrong, genuinely inside.

Phillip [00:56:11]:
Oh, yeah, right.

Eldar [00:56:11]:
But you weren't properly, maybe guided or properly scolded maybe, in order for you not to continue that behavior or whatever. But that was the first time when you felt that you lied.

Eldar [00:56:19]:
Oh, yeah.

Phillip [00:56:19]:
It was like second grade, I think. And we were talking about, like, oh, like the first time, like, I found out, like, somebody was, like, reading faster than me and, like, I wanted to, like, also get that feeling because when I heard that this kid read faster than me or you drew better than me, it, it didn't make me feel good. So then I tried to comp over. I didn't know what I was doing, but I was like, okay, I want to try to also do that without doing the actual thing, which is reading or drawing really good. And I realized when I lied, I didn't feel good about it. So when you're young, you might not know what you're doing, but you're so open and vulnerable to feelings, you know what bad is.

Eldar [00:56:55]:
Correct.

Eldar [00:56:56]:
So.

Phillip [00:56:56]:
So to have really good parents is to pick up on those things and to correct you, and that is not enable you.

Eldar [00:57:02]:
That is what, that's exactly what I'm talking about. That's what you need to protect right there. That feeling that the inside feeling that we do have our sensitivity.

Phillip [00:57:09]:
We all have right and wrong. I believe we all have that.

Eldar [00:57:11]:
Yes. Yeah.

Eldar [00:57:14]:
We dull that. And what happens is, right, Philip, then, you know, if he didn't get scold, I'd run him out the award, right? He's like, oh, shit, look what happened, right? Everybody now praises me. I'm this good guy. I'm a fast reader. I'm a fast learner. Whatever, whatever it is, got an award. And he realized that, like, going forward, he can continue to do this.

Eldar [00:57:33]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:57:34]:
It'll be a perpetual cycle of dulling that feeling of wrongdoing internally. So he goes into the world and continues to do this without any conscience. So he's completely confused as to what's going to actually bring him to happiness.

Phillip [00:57:47]:
Think about how far back this goes, though. Yeah, this is my example, and I'm knowing this example, but for me to go back to that example, like, I have a pretty good memory, like long, I don't think, say, like, if you don't, you're just operating on this, like, on autopilot. So let's say somebody is in like, a position of power. How many politicians do you think have this story of when they grew up? Nobody corrected them, right? You're not telling me all these dictators and like, all these people who are like, running companies that, like, rip people off, they rob people, they hurt people, like, people that are like, like engaging in wars. Like, you're not telling me that they can't track back to, like, when they were a kid, when somebody said, hey, listen, you're wrong. And then you found somebody who said, I'm right. Or you just said, fuck everybody. I'm going to listen to.

Phillip [00:58:30]:
I'm going to listen to myself. But myself is already sold, gone. Myself is gone. And you are the self that you just bought into was you dulling it out already? So you're buying into your false self at a really young age. So just think about how powerful your psychology is at a young age, pushing the good and bad feeling to the side. And you're picking what, you're picking something that's pleasurable over something that's morally sound.

Eldar [00:58:52]:
That's right.

Phillip [00:58:53]:
So how are you supposed to know this again?

Eldar [00:58:55]:
You don't have good guidance when you go fuck. I feel like. Yes, yes.

Anatoliy [00:59:00]:
I feel like the number one agenda universally, I would say, and probably the most common one for parents is to protect what they create from suffering.

Eldar [00:59:13]:
Okay.

Anatoliy [00:59:14]:
That's the biggest thing ever.

Eldar [00:59:15]:
Sure.

Anatoliy [00:59:16]:
That goes. That's more important than that person that offspring being happy, that's more important than anything like that. That, like, I agree with you, kid, is happening. Like, the number one thing for a parent is to protect suffering, which is very bad.

Eldar [00:59:30]:
Yes.

Anatoliy [00:59:30]:
But I feel like what, what, what happens?

Eldar [00:59:33]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:59:33]:
Like, what you guys are describing is just parents, and just like families, they create this bubble around you.

Eldar [00:59:42]:
Right? Yeah.

Anatoliy [00:59:43]:
That protects you from suffering only for so long.

Eldar [00:59:46]:
Correct.

Anatoliy [00:59:46]:
And the bad thing is that when you develop in a bubble of no suffering, you're completely unequipped to it when it happens to you. And when it happens to you, it's such an unfamiliar feeling that there's no chance that you can summon any kind of honesty in fighting it.

Eldar [01:00:03]:
Wow.

Anatoliy [01:00:04]:
Because you've been developed so much in, like, so, so far in this. But the biggest mistake that that parents are making in developing their children is that they don't realize that they can't sustain this for as long as they think they think.

Eldar [01:00:19]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:00:20]:
And then you have unruly teens, you know, and you have all this shit and you realize, honestly, wait, hold on. Like, I could do this when they were younger and they were just home all day and just like a little bit hanging out with friends and then come back home. But then you work full time jobs, you got full time responsibilities. You got things you got to do. You're not going to be with the kid all day. You're not going to be able to put that kind of time and effort needed, I guess, to protect them. And it's just not also realistic for them to be protected. And then when the parents protection runs away, little Charlie's completely unequipped to be in the world.

Eldar [01:00:59]:
Oh, my God. Can you look at Philip right now with a stare?

Anatoliy [01:01:02]:
I'm not looking.

Eldar [01:01:05]:
Charlie.

Phillip [01:01:06]:
Charlie fucker renamed me.

Eldar [01:01:09]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:01:09]:
Yeah. Little Charlie's completely unequipped to be in the world. What he needs to do at that time is all he wants to do is run home and be back in this nice little safe space that the family has created.

Eldar [01:01:23]:
And then fast forward 30, 38 years later.

Eldar [01:01:28]:
Right?

Eldar [01:01:29]:
You end up in Dennis Rock's kindergarten and you have to start over again.

Anatoliy [01:01:33]:
You want a little piece of apple?

Eldar [01:01:41]:
It's that time, right? The nap time is over. Let's go.

Anatoliy [01:01:44]:
It's snack time.

Eldar [01:01:45]:
What is it? What is that thing? Supper call it.

Anatoliy [01:01:48]:
No, what?

Eldar [01:01:48]:
The thing that. That's after the lunch. Like, it's not a. It's not a food thing. It's. It's like after. After lunch. Supper.

Anatoliy [01:01:55]:
Right, but the extra. Like, which one?

Eldar [01:01:57]:
Like after lunch. It's not food. It's not a meal.

Anatoliy [01:02:00]:
Brunch.

Eldar [01:02:00]:
Brunch. Oh, not brunch or whatever. Mike, you know I'm talking about.

Anatoliy [01:02:05]:
No, it's like a thing that, like.

Eldar [01:02:07]:
It'S not eating, but it's like, only snacks and stuff, you know? Fine. No, it's an actual, like, time.

Anatoliy [01:02:16]:
Wow. You have to go through all of adult life to then end up in the Dennis rocks kindergarten.

Eldar [01:02:23]:
Yeah. To be raised as a good kid.

Eldar [01:02:25]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:02:26]:
Anybody who listens to Dennis Rox is gonna be a good kid.

Phillip [01:02:29]:
You order the pizza yet? The pepperonis that.

Eldar [01:02:37]:
No, this is true. So this is, this is true shit. So, I mean, yeah.

Anatoliy [01:02:47]:
You pose the.

Eldar [01:02:48]:
Fucking question, but we don't have a fucking problem. Everybody was going through this shit. Deserves this fucking shit. Deserves the suffering or deserves the happiness based on the type of life that they lived. It's doctor kids finest karma. See, I'm channeling Mike, man.

Phillip [01:03:07]:
Yeah, yeah, just order.

Eldar [01:03:11]:
Yeah, no, it's.

Anatoliy [01:03:13]:
Yeah, I think.

Mike [01:03:13]:
I think what you guys are saying.

Eldar [01:03:14]:
Like, it was earned.

Mike [01:03:16]:
A lot of it is the parents is dishonestly trying to trick the kids, protect the kids, but the way they're doing it, it's no good. And what happens is subconsciously the kids, there's something in there that's happening, and they understand that it's wrong. And that's why they're always repelling because the parents trying to stop some bullshit, you know?

Eldar [01:03:37]:
Yeah, that's right.

Mike [01:03:38]:
You know, I think that's what's happening. You know, it's like a subconscious thing where that's right, you don't know what's happening. You don't, then you parents are lying to it. But I think that's what's happening. And you are rebelling in a way.

Eldar [01:03:53]:
I agree. I agree with that. Yeah. Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:03:54]:
See, I'm not sure if, like, their parents are, like, consciously putting their kids these kind of situations. They're just doing what they feel. Agree is right.

Eldar [01:04:04]:
I agree.

Eldar [01:04:04]:
Right.

Eldar [01:04:05]:
This is not to blame any parents here. No, I think it's a. Yeah, it's an ignorant thing.

Eldar [01:04:09]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:04:11]:
Has to happen. And, like, the goal is to prevent it. You know, it's not, it's not preventative. It's like preventative measures, but it's like very, I don't know, dumb preventative measures. You're not really teaching the kid. It's like, oh, don't do this. You know, like, don't do that. But not to explain, like, why this is wrong.

Mike [01:04:27]:
Why this is wrong only after the fact, when the kid is already running amok, you know?

Eldar [01:04:32]:
Yes. Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:04:33]:
I also think that it stems from.

Mike [01:04:40]:
This, but in the beginning, you never instilled those values, but not through fear, but your actual education, you know?

Anatoliy [01:04:48]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:04:49]:
Yes. Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:04:50]:
I also think that, like, this stems from the ongoing. And this is a perpetual psych cycle. And this is one thing I don't see progress in much. From. Just from my observations, maybe there is world progress in this, but I'm also not in these, like, spaces so much.

Eldar [01:05:07]:
But you don't do active research, right?

Anatoliy [01:05:10]:
Yeah, yeah, I don't see any progress. The thing I don't see progress in is, is I don't see progress in adults raising kids or viewing kids or just their opinion on kids being potentially smart.

Eldar [01:05:28]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:05:28]:
I just think that there's this perpetual cycle that kids are idiots and they need to be distracted with, like, cartoons and, like, technology just to stall them to a point where they can be told something.

Eldar [01:05:45]:
Okay, cool.

Eldar [01:05:46]:
Right. And.

Anatoliy [01:05:47]:
And to do this, but, like, they. They don't take the time or. And they don't have the patience to, like, battle their, like, the kids add or the kids, like stuff.

Eldar [01:06:00]:
Like.

Anatoliy [01:06:01]:
Yeah, right. Like, they don't have the ability to sit there and properly explain to them or have the patience to challenge them or to do that. They just keep them busy with their iPads and their shows, and they're just like. And, like, chicken nuggets and food.

Eldar [01:06:16]:
Right.

Anatoliy [01:06:17]:
Because they think that, like, they need to get to a certain age to not be spoken to like idiots up until they're a certain age. They're absolute morons and they cannot be told anything reasonable to.

Eldar [01:06:29]:
And.

Anatoliy [01:06:30]:
And that's one thing I definitely don't.

Eldar [01:06:32]:
Don't.

Anatoliy [01:06:32]:
Don't see progress on.

Eldar [01:06:33]:
You realize you're a youth advocate, right?

Eldar [01:06:36]:
What?

Eldar [01:06:37]:
You're a youth advocate. You're advocating for the youth.

Phillip [01:06:39]:
You like young girls and boys or just.

Eldar [01:06:41]:
Oh, my God, that's disgusting. If you had the preference.

Phillip [01:06:46]:
Yeah, if you had. We're on a podcast just talking about stuff. So which one do you know?

Eldar [01:06:52]:
Very good points. Very good points.

Anatoliy [01:06:54]:
Like, how can a kid not be in this protective. Think about this. How can you not, like, if you're a parent, right? And you believe that. That kids are more morons. Idiots and not capable of, like.

Eldar [01:07:07]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:07:08]:
Being taught certain things and stuff, like learning. Right. And learning. How can you not, like, how can you do anything but keep them in this bubble?

Eldar [01:07:16]:
Yeah, you can.

Anatoliy [01:07:17]:
How can you put, like, how can they. How can it make sense for them to have suffering or to learn a particular way. If they view them as like.

Eldar [01:07:27]:
But check this out.

Anatoliy [01:07:28]:
Glass made like idiots, right?

Eldar [01:07:30]:
I'm gonna give you a glance of hope. I get your point. I'm gonna give you a glance of hope. Mike is saying that we're. We're born good, okay? We're born with the truth.

Eldar [01:07:42]:
Okay?

Eldar [01:07:42]:
If that's the case for all the human beings in this. In this world and in this life, the good, if there was good versus bad, will always prevail. Unless. Unless you. You extinct humans. Because why?

Anatoliy [01:07:58]:
Why will the good prevail?

Eldar [01:08:00]:
Because.

Eldar [01:08:00]:
Because if it continues, that continues, the knowledge, that thing, you constantly. You can't constantly suppress it. It's nature. You cannot suppress it.

Anatoliy [01:08:08]:
Well, yeah, yeah. So, like, people's life is devoted to finding.

Eldar [01:08:13]:
Correct.

Anatoliy [01:08:14]:
And that finding themselves, that's what they were doing.

Eldar [01:08:17]:
They're constantly on the search for truth, on the search for purpose. That's innate in us. Regardless of what forces are trying to put us down. Our parents, the society, the magazines and all this other social media crap and stuff like that, no matter what the design, by design, I guess, Mister God, Mister G hooked us up in such a way where it will prevail no matter what.

Eldar [01:08:40]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:08:42]:
Like, like, we've kind of optimistic.

Eldar [01:08:46]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:08:46]:
Like, we've all been raised in particular ways and we've all, to a certain level, been fucked, right. And just, like, general things.

Eldar [01:08:53]:
Right.

Anatoliy [01:08:53]:
And only now where we're trying to learn different ways to try to. Try to, like, have different ways of extracting information and trying to uncover all of these things. And I think in, like, to be, like, relative to things. I mean, we're trying to worry, like, changing these kind of things very early or, like, we're very fast to it.

Eldar [01:09:22]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [01:09:25]:
So when did you take the candy from the stranger?

Phillip [01:09:29]:
He got in the back of the van very early.

Eldar [01:09:32]:
I don't know. Very early. Yeah.

Phillip [01:09:36]:
You were chocolate taco guy.

Eldar [01:09:38]:
Choco taco.

Eldar [01:09:39]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:09:40]:
You sold yourself pretty, like, pretty cheap, right?

Eldar [01:09:42]:
No.

Phillip [01:09:42]:
You like the screwball with the gumball on the bottom?

Anatoliy [01:09:44]:
No, my favorite was the soft serve dual, dual headed cone dipped in the cherry.

Phillip [01:09:51]:
What is this, bro? This is a common. It's a common ice cream thing. What is he saying? What do you mean?

Anatoliy [01:09:56]:
What's that truck called? Mister what? Softy.

Eldar [01:09:59]:
Or.

Anatoliy [01:09:59]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:10:01]:
You like the double double triple.

Anatoliy [01:10:02]:
The cone that has two heads on it.

Eldar [01:10:04]:
Look at that.

Eldar [01:10:04]:
Look at the way you show that. Yeah, so that and dipped into cherry dip. It's a tampa ceiling. When his arm went up.

Phillip [01:10:10]:
The one with a tamper on it. You described a tamper.

Anatoliy [01:10:13]:
No, when it hardens, it looks like a dual tamper.

Phillip [01:10:17]:
What truck are you saying?

Eldar [01:10:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:10:20]:
So Mister Softy got you until I'm not. So what do you got for us?

Phillip [01:10:26]:
So, so where my head goes with all this is, um.

Eldar [01:10:28]:
Say something positive.

Phillip [01:10:29]:
I'll say something really positive.

Anatoliy [01:10:30]:
You'd like to cut up some fruit for you? Well, don't worry. My already cut up some pineapple. I mean, for some. No, watermelon.

Phillip [01:10:36]:
We have the watermelon.

Anatoliy [01:10:37]:
Yeah, that. That watermelon is going bad.

Phillip [01:10:39]:
It's just sitting there.

Eldar [01:10:40]:
We got to throw it out. We got throw it out.

Phillip [01:10:42]:
I think we should eat it.

Eldar [01:10:44]:
Oh, bad.

Anatoliy [01:10:45]:
Well, I mean, like, if we don't do. If we don't do anything about it.

Eldar [01:10:48]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:10:48]:
There's a whole giant thing of it.

Eldar [01:10:50]:
No, I know. Captain cut it up for us.

Anatoliy [01:10:52]:
When?

Phillip [01:10:53]:
Probably Monday morning. Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:11:05]:
Open it in the fridge.

Eldar [01:11:07]:
It's not worth the risk.

Phillip [01:11:08]:
It's not worth it.

Eldar [01:11:09]:
Yes.

Phillip [01:11:10]:
So where my head goes is like, we're talking about all these things, right? So where my head goes is like, just think of. Think of something.

Eldar [01:11:16]:
First of all, let's acknowledge one thing. You one of the lucky ones.

Anatoliy [01:11:20]:
Do you realize this or no, in life.

Eldar [01:11:22]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:11:23]:
Oh, I feel very lucky.

Eldar [01:11:23]:
Right.

Anatoliy [01:11:24]:
You lucked out hard.

Eldar [01:11:25]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:11:25]:
Like, yeah, I feel very lucky.

Eldar [01:11:27]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:11:27]:
I like where I'm at.

Eldar [01:11:28]:
All right, good.

Phillip [01:11:28]:
I feel very good.

Eldar [01:11:29]:
Good.

Phillip [01:11:30]:
Happy peace.

Eldar [01:11:31]:
All of them.

Eldar [01:11:32]:
Yeah, for sure.

Eldar [01:11:33]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:11:33]:
But, um.

Eldar [01:11:34]:
Quick turnaround times.

Eldar [01:11:36]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:11:36]:
I do three to five business days. No, it's less three or five minutes probably.

Eldar [01:11:42]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:11:42]:
You did that shit pretty quick.

Eldar [01:11:43]:
Yeah, yeah. Go ahead.

Phillip [01:11:44]:
I feel good, but.

Eldar [01:11:45]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:11:45]:
So where my head goes. When Tolley was making his examples, which I agree with, where I go is, like, school, I think is a very interesting concept.

Eldar [01:11:54]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:11:54]:
Like just school in general education. So think about what your parents are doing. They essentially went through this process, whether even they did elementary school, they middle school, high school, maybe not.

Eldar [01:12:05]:
College is going to be positive.

Phillip [01:12:06]:
This is not positive yet. So. So think about what it is. They're essentially dropping you off at a place. So this place can essentially take you, babysit you and mold you.

Eldar [01:12:17]:
Yes.

Phillip [01:12:18]:
And they're agreeing.

Eldar [01:12:19]:
Yes.

Phillip [01:12:20]:
With this system. Now, let's, let's say if they took you out of this, you're going to be homeschooled. Right. And if you're homeschooled, like, you're known as, like, a pretty, like, weird guy or girl.

Eldar [01:12:28]:
Right?

Phillip [01:12:28]:
Like, that's like a weird thing. But, like, I think it's kind of normal, like, because in the context of how you would learn what school is.

Anatoliy [01:12:37]:
Doing, like, could this be potentially true? Is that they're gearing you up on normalizing, like, what jail is? Like, well, yeah, yeah, walk in order. I mean, of course, you know, do.

Phillip [01:12:48]:
This a certain time, but yeah, so.

Anatoliy [01:12:51]:
Think about, like, like, pain and punishment type of system. Like very disciplinary.

Phillip [01:12:57]:
But just think about from your, we're.

Eldar [01:12:59]:
Talking about parents cultivating idiots.

Phillip [01:13:01]:
But yeah, that's the overall, like, overarching, like, like, result. But, but what I'm saying is we're talking about the relationship with your family, right? So, like, just talking about that specific relationship, you're having an exchange where your family is saying, I agree that I'm going to allow you to go to this place for 810 plus hours, okay? Allow their brains and their knowledge to, like, basically educate you on what is important. And then when you come home, you know, we'll say, okay, maybe you have to fold your napkin. You have to say grace. Like, maybe you do certain things. Maybe we have certain type of conversations, but how many parents are then reeducating their kids or asking them, hey, what are you doing? And, oh, I think that's wrong and I think this is right. So how many kids are getting challenged by their parents positively after going to school, getting all this stuff in your mind? Most of the time they're going to probably waste their time in school learning things you probably don't really want to learn or you're not ready to learn. So you basically are set up in an example of you hate school, you hate what you're doing.

Phillip [01:14:08]:
And it probably makes it a lot easier to say, like, I'm going to go another job, which you're probably going to hate because you don't even know basically how to find an environment that you like or you're going to be passionate about because you're getting thrown into this thing where your parents are telling you you have to go, society is telling you have to go through this thing. You didn't, you don't make any choices. Yeah, there's no choices that you're making because again, totally saying you're an idiot pretty much to everybody else in society if you're not making money, right? If you don't, if you don't, like, have all these big responsibilities, you're not creating jobs, you're not like, creating art, you're not creating these big, profound things. Your opinion doesn't matter. Like, you're a total idiot. So you have to go through this system of pain.

Eldar [01:14:49]:
That's right.

Phillip [01:14:49]:
And then all of a sudden, when are you going to break it? The most people break the pattern in high school. They breaking the pattern in college or after college. We're essentially breaking the pattern now and saying, like, yeah, the gigs up, like, society and jobs in general, like, they're all pretty much a joke. Like, what's your purpose? Like, what are you doing?

Eldar [01:15:05]:
Right.

Phillip [01:15:05]:
So, like, what. What does it take? We're basically asking, what does it take to break this pattern? How much pain, essentially, does it take to get out of these and start to think for yourself and say, hey, damn. Like, I've been going through, like, this merry go round, like, this matrix, whatever it is. Like what? Like, what does it take for me to get out of it? So, like, these conversations and, like, being in this environment, for me, it's very easy for me to see that everything else so far was a big joke, and I wasn't examining it properly or examining it at all.

Eldar [01:15:36]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:36]:
You know, do you feel now that now that you're opening yourself up to these types of conversations and now you also opening yourself up to your true human potential and your abilities or your power, do you feel morally obligated than to pass this on and teach others?

Phillip [01:15:52]:
Not yet, because I'm like, maybe if this is a way of doing it, then maybe I'm doing it indirectly, but I feel like people need to suffer more. No, I think that where I'm at, I don't know if it's selfish or it's just where I'm at, but I'm thinking of it more in terms of, like, I have a lot more to do before I can even think of my own cup. Yeah, I don't think. I think I'm in the process of, like, opening it up, filling my cup. And I'm not thinking about, like, oh, how can I help other people?

Eldar [01:16:20]:
No, but I think you are already.

Phillip [01:16:21]:
Indirectly, but you see, but you're saying that to me, so I'm. I'll take that as, like, a w. And it's nice. Yeah, but I'm not thinking about that on my day to day, because I don't associate me being ready to, like, offer other people advice at this point.

Eldar [01:16:34]:
I mean, but what you. If you are that what you identified is true, you see the problem and you see that the society is suffering, and you potentially have the answer. It's almost like a win win situation here. We're like, this might be tied to you, to your purpose.

Eldar [01:16:48]:
Mmm. Yes.

Phillip [01:16:50]:
That's something I can't see in, like. Yeah, I. Yeah. Even you saying that, it's.

Eldar [01:16:57]:
I think it's.

Anatoliy [01:16:57]:
I don't see it.

Eldar [01:16:58]:
I think it's inevitable.

Eldar [01:16:59]:
Okay. Yeah.

Eldar [01:17:00]:
Because, like, when you finally. Maybe you don't see because it's not natural yet, but when you finally, you know, filled your cup, that. That which you filled yourself with will start spilling over.

Eldar [01:17:12]:
Hmm.

Eldar [01:17:13]:
And you won't have the choice in the matter.

Eldar [01:17:15]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:17:16]:
I'm definitely not there yet, because then it would be a lot quicker, and it feel more natural.

Eldar [01:17:21]:
That's what I'm saying.

Eldar [01:17:21]:
Natural.

Phillip [01:17:22]:
I'm diving. I'm going into my thought. I'm hearing you say it. I'm in a trusting environment. I trust you. Like, right. Like, you're coming from a good place, but it's literally not hitting any course.

Eldar [01:17:31]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:17:31]:
In. In me.

Eldar [01:17:32]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:17:33]:
That's why it's gonna be very interesting to win. When you take some of these steps like you did with your mom, for example, the future conversations that you will start having with her about. Around this type of stuff is going to be very interesting to hear your feedback and stuff. And how were you landing with that now?

Eldar [01:17:46]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [01:17:46]:
That's gonna be very interesting.

Eldar [01:17:47]:
Yeah. You know.

Eldar [01:17:50]:
Yeah, man. Changes. Change takes time, but, you know, and good change takes some effort.

Eldar [01:17:55]:
Totally.

Phillip [01:17:55]:
Was putting his third eye on the microphone.

Eldar [01:17:59]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:17:59]:
Mike, what you got for us?

Mike [01:18:01]:
Phil? Did I miss something with your mom? You have some kind of conversation?

Eldar [01:18:06]:
Yes.

Phillip [01:18:06]:
We were talking about basically trying to help somebody recommend, say, a doctor or nutritional therapist in this example, and the person either accepting the advice, maybe deep down, knowing that it's good, and then also my attachment to me, thinking that I'm doing a good thing. And we came to the conclusion that, you know, me maybe pushing this thing might be adding actually more stress. Or I'm thinking, hey, like, if I keep pushing, you know, I can get. I can get this person who I care about to help them, but. But. But instead, you know, I may be being. Going, you know, around them, in person, holidays, just seeing them, and I'm not giving my full attention, my full presence, because maybe I'm upset that, you know, they're sick or they're not well, when in turn, that's where I should be giving. And the most loving and most present is when I'm there and when I'm not.

Phillip [01:19:00]:
The idea of going to the doctor or going there. Yeah, it's there. But beating that to death might be adding more stress and to you and to her, to both of us. And I think it's redefining what help is and what coming from a loving place is, you know, versus just kind of keep pushing, pushing, pushing what I think is right and not seeing a result. So as I, as we were talking about it, you know, I was realizing, hey, listen, maybe, maybe I'm not coming from a good, loving place and what I'm doing is maybe more selfish where I'm not accepting the current situation. I'm not accepting, you know, nice life's maybe natural progression. Maybe somebody is not ready to accept this information and instead of trying to do all these things, just, you know, just say, hey, you know, mom, dad, like, I'm there for you and, you know, when I'm there with them in person, just be there, you know, stop trying to kind of push an agenda on them and just, you know, just be a loving son and. Yeah, and it's just interesting to think that, like, you know, not doing so much can also mean that you're coming from a loving place also, like doing stuff or they're pushing an agenda.

Phillip [01:20:13]:
Yeah, you don't have to always be doing something was like kind of the lesson that I learned. It's me pulling back, just saying, hey, I'm here for you. And, yeah, that could be good enough. So I think allowing yourself to realize that who you are is good enough, I think that's also tied to your belief in who you are. Also, if you don't believe that you're good enough and you're coming from an insecure place, you're always thinking, hey, listen, I have to go to this outside doctor. I have to go to this outside thing to maybe achieve a good health or a good relationship. So it helped me kind of re examine my idea of how I look at myself and then also how I look at my relationships. And again, like talking to your mother and father, your brother, I think those relationships are the ones you have the most experience in and they're the most profound, at least for me.

Phillip [01:21:04]:
And, yeah, that's where this example is coming from. We were going on a walk the last day or two and. And these examples were coming up.

Mike [01:21:13]:
Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, I think a lot of it is, again, questioning, you think you're helping, but, you know, because that's what you want or is it actual because that's what the person wants.

Phillip [01:21:26]:
Right.

Mike [01:21:26]:
That could be, you know, very slippery.

Phillip [01:21:28]:
Slope, which, yeah, it's like, did you ever actually sit down even?

Mike [01:21:33]:
I do think sometimes. Know, I thought about I was gonna help my parents, but instead I, you know, I didn't help them and only that I hurt myself, you know?

Phillip [01:21:45]:
So just think about those situations, right, with your family. Like, did you ever actually ask them and say, like, hey, mom, dad, like what? What do you want out of this situation? Like, hey, you're not feeling that well. The business is not doing well. The business is this, like, did I ever sit down and ask my mom, like, hey, like, what do you want? I just assessed the situation for myself and said, like, okay, like, you know, if they're sick, right? Like, I'm just gonna go get them help and I'm thinking that I'm gonna do the right thing. But like, maybe, maybe me doing that, it's, you know, jumping is maybe jumping the gun a bit and maybe maybe putting somebody in an uncomfortable situation or putting unneeded pressure on them and, you know, creating stress, creating actually more stress.

Anatoliy [01:22:25]:
So.

Phillip [01:22:26]:
And we started to associate that example with, with food. We were saying the green drink and health and nutrition and doing exercise and all these things. But is anybody measuring stress and how important stress is in these situations? The example was if you were in great shape, you exercised every day, you ate super healthy, but you were really guilty about, say, eating a snack. Like, this is my example. So let's say like, every time I ate a slice of pizza, I was super guilty. But my calorie intake was good for the week. I was getting all my vitamins and nutrients. I was exercising.

Phillip [01:23:09]:
But with that stress, I might be in a worse place than somebody who's maybe enjoying a slice of pizza every day, maybe not exercising as consistently, but they, they're actually happy on a day to day basis. That person might be actually genuinely healthier than me. So these examples are the one that were coming up and that resonated with me because Im saying to myself, maybe, maybe pushing, you know, a nutritional therapist on somebody is adding more stress when essentially they just need maybe more loving and care and like the actual, like exercise and actual nutrition of what theyre eating is not that important. Like putting them in a state of, you know, comfort and just knowing that theyre there, that might be the actual medicine that they need. And then maybe eventually they get to the point where they want the nutritional therapist. But I'm interested in finding, and I think Joe Dispenza has these examples because he's a good mix of like science and spirituality. I think he does these with sleep and he measures like your cortisone levels while you're sleeping. I don't know if he does it with diet also, but I'm curious to see what a measured level of stress, or if you can do that on your brain to see what those levels do versus, like, you eating broccoli or, like, you eating a green juice.

Phillip [01:24:21]:
Like, I want to see what those levels are because I.

Eldar [01:24:24]:
Very good.

Phillip [01:24:24]:
I think. I think that's an interesting conversation.

Eldar [01:24:27]:
Now he's talking real shit, bro.

Eldar [01:24:29]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:24:29]:
Because these conversations are interesting because you can measure calories and then losing weight and, you know, exercise and losing weight. Right. But can you tell me right now, like, I don't know.

Eldar [01:24:40]:
Like.

Phillip [01:24:40]:
But it's just in this conversation, can you say if you have zero stress versus a ton of stress?

Anatoliy [01:24:45]:
Evan, these words are coming out of Philip's mouth.

Phillip [01:24:49]:
What does that look like on your body? And how does that translate into your happiness? Or how does that translate into weight gain or weight loss or whatever you want to call it? So that, to me, is something that, to me, is not typically talked about. Most people talk about nutrition and exercise because they're measurable things that are just out there, and they're just, I guess, more acceptable or easier to basically debate. To measure and debate and observe. Correct. So if these things are maybe just not out there yet, or there's maybe limited access to these things or limited reports on these things, that could be a reason why. But I'm interested in understanding what these things look like and if they were measured in any type of tests, because then it's easier to have a conversation about.

Eldar [01:25:37]:
That's right.

Eldar [01:25:40]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:25:40]:
We were in it. See, Mike, we went on the walk. We also went into the whole thing about your smoking theory.

Eldar [01:25:45]:
Right.

Eldar [01:25:46]:
Smoking for, you know, smoking because you're stressed, or smoking for pleasure and to. To relax.

Phillip [01:25:52]:
That help me lasagna. That helped me eat the cake in lasagna, actually.

Eldar [01:25:55]:
There you go. Yeah.

Mike [01:25:56]:
See? So. So everything he wants to do is just eat what he wants to eat, drink. What do you want to drink? And not. And not, uh, some of the consequences, but he doesn't understand the consequences that actually suffering is distressing, you know, on this regimental thing that he's doing.

Phillip [01:26:13]:
And I weighed myself. I was only 179. I only gained one pound since I started.

Eldar [01:26:18]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:26:18]:
What's the correlation there?

Eldar [01:26:19]:
Right.

Eldar [01:26:20]:
What's the conclusions can you make there?

Eldar [01:26:21]:
You know? Yeah.

Phillip [01:26:21]:
What conclusion is that? I can do everything that I want, and as a result of me doing everything that I want, I found that I actually was exercising more consistent in the morning, and I actually felt better.

Eldar [01:26:32]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:26:33]:
Then when I was maybe being really strict.

Eldar [01:26:37]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:26:37]:
Not getting as. Oh, and sleep was definitely improving. Yeah, I was eating. I ate the cake and I ate the lasagna. We had, like, a big day that day. I think there was a cheesecake involved. No, I only had one. And I had one, but I had multiple servings of the salad, which also had cheese in it.

Phillip [01:26:56]:
And we had coffee, and the coffee tweaked me up. Anyways, the point was that I'm allowing myself to eat these things, and they're all things that I like because I do like food. And I was depriving myself of eating things that I like, going to maybe restaurants that I would like, because I'm saying, okay, if I don't eat this thing, I'll be at a certain weight. Not factoring in that. Hey, maybe me depriving myself of these things is actually causing me stress and might be able to. Might be putting me in a state of, like, unhappiness, creating these patterns that.

Eldar [01:27:28]:
Are healthy and then not being able to sleep well.

Phillip [01:27:31]:
Not being able to sleep well, not being able to think properly.

Eldar [01:27:33]:
Then.

Eldar [01:27:34]:
Which.

Eldar [01:27:34]:
Then.

Eldar [01:27:35]:
Right. Which can be a loop if you don't, you know, examine it.

Eldar [01:27:38]:
Right.

Eldar [01:27:39]:
You don't sleep well. Obviously, your body is. Then different. Feels different. You start throwing, like, drink one beer, and then you're like, oh, my God, I feel terrible. You know what I mean? Because you. And then you start associating it with, like, I drank one beer, and beer is making you feel terrible, let alone it's like your body's not even prepared for beer anymore because you're sleeping so bad.

Anatoliy [01:27:57]:
Right, right.

Eldar [01:27:58]:
So you're, you know, you're not a complete person, but you start associating things differently and in the wrong way. And going back to our original conversation, then you become very confused as to what's actually making you suffer and what's actually making you happy.

Phillip [01:28:11]:
So to go to that example, when I was working from home, if I. If I was in this situation and, like, me and my sleep wasn't that good, I would have definitely said, okay, I have to eat better, I have to exercise better, and I, you know, buy a sleep mask or I have to do. I have to keep doing these things. I wouldn't have thought.

Eldar [01:28:32]:
You never would have said, yeah, I need to stop being a tight ass.

Eldar [01:28:35]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:28:35]:
I wouldn't have thought to myself, oh, maybe if I allow myself to eat certain things.

Eldar [01:28:38]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:28:39]:
And to maybe associate stress with the pattern of thinking behind the food and not the food itself.

Eldar [01:28:46]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:28:46]:
I wouldn't have done that on my own.

Eldar [01:28:47]:
That's right.

Eldar [01:28:48]:
Yeah. Wow. Very interesting.

Eldar [01:28:50]:
Very interesting. Serious stuff, man. Holy shit.

Phillip [01:29:00]:
The short bus, the greyhound.

Eldar [01:29:01]:
So totally. You have any other questions around this? You came in hot, man, and then now you're all dwindled down, man.

Phillip [01:29:07]:
Yeah, he fizzled out hard. He ordered the pizza.

Eldar [01:29:10]:
Pizza town.

Eldar [01:29:11]:
What's up with you, man?

Phillip [01:29:12]:
Pizza.

Anatoliy [01:29:13]:
Sorry, Mike, man, the mango slices are gone.

Phillip [01:29:21]:
Pasta, pizza. Maybe I will eat a slice.

Anatoliy [01:29:25]:
No, I mean, look, I think the equation of what's going on, I think it makes sense that part of it is clear, but.

Eldar [01:29:38]:
Stop it. What's not clear? What were you not clear about before? And what. What is. What is now? Is it clear now?

Anatoliy [01:29:48]:
What was I not clear about before?

Eldar [01:29:50]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:29:51]:
And why did you want to make a more obvious statement?

Phillip [01:29:55]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:29:56]:
Well, I mean, it's more about, like. I think it's more about like, being able to be good at creating sustainable happiness.

Eldar [01:30:08]:
Mmm.

Eldar [01:30:09]:
So you want to be able to connect the dots a little bit better.

Eldar [01:30:11]:
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right.

Eldar [01:30:15]:
And you're not ready to give a real life example yet. Why are you. Why are you chuckling? Mike? You smell. You smell a setup from elderism or.

Eldar [01:30:23]:
No.

Eldar [01:30:26]:
Smell a setup?

Eldar [01:30:28]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [01:30:30]:
What brought you to this question?

Anatoliy [01:30:32]:
Um.

Eldar [01:30:33]:
You don't have to be honest. If you're not on that full yet.

Anatoliy [01:30:37]:
Why you like.

Eldar [01:30:42]:
Listen, Phil, you gotta follow Phillips, what's his name and example here.

Eldar [01:30:49]:
What do you. Wait, what do you mean?

Anatoliy [01:30:50]:
I'm the one who brought this tower.

Eldar [01:30:51]:
Epic.

Eldar [01:30:52]:
That's what I'm saying.

Anatoliy [01:30:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:30:54]:
He just built more on it, you know what I'm saying? But you didn't have an actual. Why did you come about from the first place? Which. Which particular example in your life that you're not connecting properly?

Anatoliy [01:31:04]:
Yeah, it's not what it is. There's no, like, I would need to sit down and thoroughly think about, like, everything.

Eldar [01:31:12]:
How did this come about?

Anatoliy [01:31:13]:
Yeah, this came about. Is that, like, this is a very specific question? Yeah, just, I guess, like.

Eldar [01:31:20]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:31:21]:
The desire to understand how to create societies happiness for you that lasts both in the short term and long term. I've definitely had moments of being able to create both of them, but I'm still not, like, I'm still not able, in, like, a calculated way to ensure that I. That I am able to create happiness myself on a recurring basis.

Eldar [01:31:51]:
In which sense?

Eldar [01:31:53]:
In.

Anatoliy [01:31:54]:
In the sense is that, like, in which. Which patterns and all of them and everything I do, everything I say, like, everything.

Eldar [01:32:04]:
You just shooting in the dark.

Phillip [01:32:07]:
He's pissed.

Eldar [01:32:09]:
He's pissed. Piggy. No, no.

Anatoliy [01:32:10]:
In what way?

Eldar [01:32:11]:
Like, what are you saying in everything.

Anatoliy [01:32:13]:
Like, yeah, just just like we have.

Eldar [01:32:15]:
A real life example of Phillips thing and his situation.

Phillip [01:32:18]:
My heart's on the table and you're just talking general.

Anatoliy [01:32:21]:
1St.

Eldar [01:32:22]:
1St.

Anatoliy [01:32:22]:
I've known. No one even explained what, what happened with his mom. Yeah, situation.

Eldar [01:32:26]:
Yeah. What do you mean?

Anatoliy [01:32:27]:
I was not briefed on, on the second part. Like, I just found out when you just said that.

Phillip [01:32:31]:
We're on the walk.

Eldar [01:32:32]:
We all talk. We talked about it.

Anatoliy [01:32:33]:
No, but then you said that he took action. Yeah, I had no clue about this.

Eldar [01:32:36]:
Yeah, but we just talked about, you know, what do you. What do you think he took? How about this? Like, if you. If we talked about what we talked about, he used to pressure his mom for very specific things.

Eldar [01:32:47]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:32:47]:
He probably messaged her and told her that if you don't want to do this.

Eldar [01:32:49]:
That's right.

Eldar [01:32:50]:
That's it.

Eldar [01:32:50]:
Right.

Eldar [01:32:51]:
He let go of that pressure for her, let go of the pressure for himself, and he accepted the situation.

Phillip [01:32:56]:
He said same thing with the car. Remember with the car? I let, like, that part go.

Eldar [01:33:01]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Eldar [01:33:02]:
He just let go and he accepted it. You know, he said it out loud, said it to her. And she's like, yeah, like, all love. And he's like, I love you, mom, and I'm here for you if you need me, but I'm not shoving this, this fucking path down your throne anymore. She said, cool. I do need your help and stuff like that. I love you, son. And that's it.

Anatoliy [01:33:18]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:33:19]:
You could have deduced this. No, no.

Eldar [01:33:21]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:33:21]:
Sounds good. You're a smart guy.

Anatoliy [01:33:23]:
Yes. What are you asking me in comparison?

Phillip [01:33:25]:
Like, what example where you got. Where you got the topic from.

Eldar [01:33:29]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:33:29]:
Where'd you get the topic from?

Anatoliy [01:33:30]:
Yeah, it's. Yeah, for for me, the topic doesn't come from, like, one particular specific life example. It just comes. It just comes from, like, a pile.

Eldar [01:33:40]:
Up of all nonsense.

Anatoliy [01:33:41]:
Well, well, yeah. Just like a perpetual cycle of the inability to always control the outcomes of my happiness and yet still get blindsided with things, still feel suffering from things. Like, oh, if I just had just taken care of this and done things, for example, differently, like, afterwards, I'm. I feel like I'm very good at, like, just like, some level of reflection.

Eldar [01:34:07]:
Right? Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:34:08]:
But I don't want to continue to live my life just reflecting always and just understanding and not, like, do doing. Right. So I want to be able to connect the reflection, the the reflections I have to actions and to live the way that I reflect.

Eldar [01:34:27]:
Hmm, interesting. Okay, so you're just following out of control.

Anatoliy [01:34:36]:
What can I say right now that will help my argument? There's nothing.

Phillip [01:34:40]:
No, yeah, you. Yeah, you're done. You're in quicksand right now.

Eldar [01:34:43]:
You had no chance.

Eldar [01:34:43]:
Yeah, no, he's done.

Phillip [01:34:44]:
He's got no chance.

Eldar [01:34:45]:
Mike, can you help him?

Eldar [01:34:47]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:34:52]:
No, no, Mike, I'm sorry. Yeah, no, you can't.

Eldar [01:34:57]:
Yeah, I just realized that. Yeah, I guess.

Eldar [01:35:01]:
All right, then, you know, there's nothing there. There's nothing really to be said.

Mike [01:35:06]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:35:10]:
This is true.

Eldar [01:35:13]:
Okay. Yeah.

Phillip [01:35:16]:
So, like, what happens is it doesn't.

Eldar [01:35:18]:
Want to be the after the fact guy.

Phillip [01:35:20]:
Yeah, totally. Will come up with the example.

Eldar [01:35:22]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:35:23]:
I'll put myself through it. Yeah, I'll be the. I'll be the guinea pig.

Eldar [01:35:26]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:35:27]:
Which is fine. Yeah, which is fine. That's good. If you're fine with that, that's cool.

Eldar [01:35:32]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [01:35:33]:
Cuz you also found this topic very interesting.

Phillip [01:35:35]:
I like this topic. Yeah, yeah, I like, I mean, yeah, obviously for me, like, it definitely. It definitely, like, there was blocks there, and then you start to see some light to it and you're like. And then, like, putting it into action and, like, actually getting to see, like, what it looks like. Yeah, that's pretty cool.

Eldar [01:35:55]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:35:56]:
Like, and you can do this, obviously, on so many different examples.

Eldar [01:35:59]:
Do it.

Eldar [01:35:59]:
Any life that you might be.

Phillip [01:36:00]:
Yeah, do with anything.

Eldar [01:36:01]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:36:01]:
So, yeah, I think that. I think being able to be in that type of environment, like we're talking about, like this, being fortunate enough to be in a space where you feel safe, that you can openly talk about these things. Maybe some of the things are uncomfortable because you have these attachments to it, but once you're willing to let go of these attachments, put yourself out there and be vulnerable and then actually say, okay, I'm going to change the way I do it. Do that one thing, whether it's a text message, a phone call, changing a thought pattern, whatever it may be, and seeing the result, like, that's actually being able to put an action to, you know, these things that we're talking about. So, like, yeah, these are conversations, but like, without action.

Eldar [01:36:39]:
Right?

Phillip [01:36:39]:
Like, you have to be putting these things into action. Like, these are. This is conversation. So all these podcasts and everything that's out there, you can have the conversation, but, like, if there's no action to it, you're not gonna see any results.

Eldar [01:36:50]:
Wow. So.

Phillip [01:36:51]:
So, to me it's, are you able to have the courage to. To be able to put these thoughts into action and take the chance and say, like, okay. Like I'm willing to live or die with maybe like a new way of thinking versus just like going through the same mundane everyday process, knowing what the next day is gonna look like, what the, the next feeling is going to be. So, yeah, I think the, the action part is just as important as the, the thinking and the talking. They both go hand in hand and.

Eldar [01:37:21]:
Maybe probably for some, even more important.

Eldar [01:37:23]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:37:24]:
Because at the end of the day, without actually.

Eldar [01:37:26]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:37:26]:
You're just sitting there, you just say you got nothing. And again, you can be that person that knows that thing, but you're not doing it.

Eldar [01:37:32]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:37:33]:
So I think that's, that's very important.

Eldar [01:37:35]:
A very good point. And, uh, you becoming a mind reader.

Phillip [01:37:40]:
Tolly's phone died.

Eldar [01:37:42]:
Yes. Yeah.

Eldar [01:37:44]:
You put it on charge.

Anatoliy [01:37:46]:
Yeah, no, I mean, I agree with that, but like, like, are you asking it to bring up a specific, like.

Eldar [01:37:51]:
No, no, I'm not asking you to bring it up if you don't. Like.

Anatoliy [01:37:54]:
No, no. But like, you're acting like I'm trying to like, hide something. Right?

Eldar [01:37:58]:
I'm not acting like nothing. Like if you, if you don't have an actual specific example, they know, like, I don't have a specific example, just like interested where that came from because it's a very specific situation that a person who's probably, you know, missed in that, in that step or seen himself suffer from it would be like, okay, cool. I'm concluding this because again, it's happening. You know what I'm saying?

Anatoliy [01:38:20]:
Well, yeah, so it wasn't like, like I didn't think about this or come up with this from just like one specific, like, like one specific thing happens to me. So I'm like, okay, we, we, we need to talk about this because I want to like accomplish x, y and z. It's, it's just like the, the, it was a combination of how I view things happening to people and in like Ssi as a whole.

Eldar [01:38:46]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:38:47]:
And, and myself when it comes to not being able to be like recurring and calculated, really understanding of everything that causes me pain and happiness. Like, that, that, that's the main thing is like, if you ask me, like, what brings you happiness, right? Or like, what, what brings you.

Eldar [01:39:11]:
Yeah, yeah.

Anatoliy [01:39:11]:
Like, what brings you happiness and what brings, it brings you pain?

Eldar [01:39:14]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:39:15]:
Like the first feeling I get is that I don't have to think about it, like, really hard.

Eldar [01:39:19]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:39:21]:
But nonetheless, you get the answer correct.

Anatoliy [01:39:23]:
I'll get some answers, but I'm not sure if they're correct.

Eldar [01:39:26]:
Oh, wow. Yeah.

Eldar [01:39:28]:
See, I think that. I think that if we sat down and had this conversation about what actually is going on, you'll know all the answers.

Eldar [01:39:36]:
However.

Eldar [01:39:38]:
However, what I think is happening a lot of the times is that you have the ability to tune in now and then tune out real quick right after. And that's the difference between carrying this over into action.

Anatoliy [01:39:49]:
Well, yeah, no, 100%.

Eldar [01:39:51]:
And this is been going on for a very long time for you.

Anatoliy [01:39:54]:
No, no.

Eldar [01:39:55]:
That's why.

Eldar [01:39:55]:
That's why my answer when you asked that question the first place.

Eldar [01:39:59]:
Right.

Eldar [01:40:00]:
Was what?

Eldar [01:40:02]:
Why?

Eldar [01:40:03]:
Where do I come from?

Anatoliy [01:40:06]:
You said, like, why do you want to do what?

Eldar [01:40:10]:
You want me give it to you? You see?

Eldar [01:40:12]:
Sure. Okay.

Eldar [01:40:13]:
Pay attention.

Eldar [01:40:14]:
Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:40:15]:
Why do you want to pay attention?

Eldar [01:40:16]:
Why? Because you have to pay attention.

Eldar [01:40:17]:
Right? Yeah.

Eldar [01:40:19]:
Why do you. Why do you drift away? Why do you leave? Is the question.

Anatoliy [01:40:24]:
And when you're saying, like me, you.

Eldar [01:40:27]:
Can have a conversation right now, you can lay out the path of your happiness, and you can lay out all the things that make you suffer very easily right now in the moment, then life happens to you.

Eldar [01:40:37]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:40:38]:
You know, son, and in that life, you're no longer paying attention. You're no longer in the present moment. You're not seeing yourself in that moment. You're somewhere else, and your mind just takes you. You're not paying attention. And therefore, life happens to you versus you happening to life.

Anatoliy [01:40:55]:
Yeah. Yeah, I would say, like. Yeah, I would say that probably because, like, moments like this are more like routine in, like, in interrupters, you know? And then, like, your more, like, everyday life is like, your routine, like life. And I think we're very routine based creatures. So having particular type. Type types of interrupt interruptions to change some of these things and do that is a difficult part.

Eldar [01:41:32]:
So your whole routine is based on than just shooting in the dark?

Anatoliy [01:41:37]:
Well, no, no.

Eldar [01:41:39]:
Because if you don't know what. What's gonna yield? What? And you come to conclusion that most of the stuff you don't know about what brings you happiness or what brings you sadness.

Eldar [01:41:48]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:41:49]:
Then you're just shooting in the dark. And the reason why you're saying that is because it's routine based. And the reason why you're an automatic pilot is because this is a routine already so ingrained in you that you constantly on the constant flow of that routine. Without really knowing whether or not that routine is right or wrong.

Eldar [01:42:04]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:42:04]:
So you're not really paying attention.

Phillip [01:42:06]:
But he's able to intellectualize it, like, to a t. Like, perfectly.

Eldar [01:42:09]:
That's what I'm saying? Yeah, that's the phenomena, Phil.

Eldar [01:42:12]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:42:12]:
You can sit down and we could talk about this only within the moments when he actually finally is reflecting.

Phillip [01:42:18]:
Right.

Eldar [01:42:19]:
And taking the time to pay attention.

Eldar [01:42:21]:
Mm hmm.

Eldar [01:42:22]:
After this, right here, after the philosophy bubble, life will start happening to him again.

Eldar [01:42:26]:
Hmm.

Eldar [01:42:28]:
That's why there's disconnect between thinking and then doing. There's a huge disconnect here. And this is what he's talking about. He's talking about the disconnect. I think this is why this shit not matching up.

Phillip [01:42:42]:
This is very, very common for a lot of people.

Eldar [01:42:45]:
Very talking about a lot of people here. But, so we're talking about the people, those people. 100%.

Phillip [01:42:50]:
100%.

Eldar [01:42:51]:
He keeps referring it back to him.

Phillip [01:42:53]:
So, so, so, yeah. Why, why not take action when you know? So this is the example that we talked about before. There's part of you, right. That, that, that knows, but then there's, there's some other attachment to something else.

Eldar [01:43:10]:
That's right.

Phillip [01:43:11]:
What is that attachment to that something else? And what is that something else, 100%?

Eldar [01:43:15]:
What is it?

Phillip [01:43:16]:
What does it look like?

Eldar [01:43:16]:
Don't ask me.

Eldar [01:43:18]:
Hey, hey.

Eldar [01:43:19]:
You don't ask me.

Phillip [01:43:21]:
So that's me. That is, that is what the question is. So in my example with my attachment to what, what I thought was doing that was right. And I was asking you guys, and I said, like, hey, listen, like, you know, what is it? Okay, you guys gave me an example of, hey, listen, you might not actually be helping. It might be selfish. Right? You're not accepting the situation. Like, oh, you know what? Like that I understand. But still, part of me was saying, yeah, okay, I get what you guys are saying.

Phillip [01:43:50]:
It is right. But I'm still attached to, I want to help through the way that I want to do it. I want to get the doctor involved. I want to help. So what's the example for you where you're able to intellectualize all the blueprint for somebody like myself to say, okay, yes, and I'm going to put it into action so you can say it. But there is part of yourself inside that's contradicting all this logical information that makes sense to you. So what is that thing is what we're asking, right? Is that what we're saying?

Eldar [01:44:19]:
I mean, you said it the exactly the same way, if not better than I did.

Eldar [01:44:23]:
Yes.

Phillip [01:44:23]:
So that's what we're saying. We're saying that he's contradict exactly what you're talking about. Yes, but he's not saying what it is, though, he's not saying what the attachment is.

Eldar [01:44:32]:
Well, that's the whole point of it.

Eldar [01:44:34]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:44:35]:
I mean, I don't.

Eldar [01:44:36]:
Like.

Anatoliy [01:44:36]:
No, like. Like, I don't have, like, a clear answer.

Eldar [01:44:39]:
That's the question. I said, if you agreed with me that the answer here is to pay attention. Why? You want to. You want to learn that these dots will connect to these dots, correct?

Eldar [01:44:50]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:44:50]:
You want to actually know and have a predictable outcome and the things that you do, the things that cause you happiness and soft.

Eldar [01:44:57]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:44:58]:
And the answer that to that is to pay attention. Why not then pay attention.

Anatoliy [01:45:07]:
Why do I want to pay.

Eldar [01:45:09]:
Well, we get it. You need to start paying attention in order to finally understand what is what.

Eldar [01:45:14]:
Yeah. Right.

Eldar [01:45:15]:
The question here is, why don't you pay attention?

Phillip [01:45:18]:
But he's paying attention enough to be able to intellectualize it, absorb the information, and be able to regurgitate it in a way that he can. He can instill the education into me.

Eldar [01:45:30]:
He's just describing a phenomena that's happening to him. He's just talking about his pain.

Phillip [01:45:33]:
He's talking about it.

Eldar [01:45:34]:
He's just talking about his pain.

Eldar [01:45:36]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:45:36]:
He didn't say anything intellectual, bro.

Eldar [01:45:38]:
Ah.

Eldar [01:45:38]:
He just said, this is what's happening with me. I'm confused.

Eldar [01:45:42]:
Mmm.

Eldar [01:45:43]:
I'm confused of what makes me happy, and I'm confused of what makes me suffer.

Eldar [01:45:47]:
Hmm.

Eldar [01:45:50]:
And then he linked that with the general public, which I agree 100%.

Eldar [01:45:55]:
Okay.

Phillip [01:45:55]:
So he's taking that. Adding it to a general example.

Eldar [01:46:00]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:46:01]:
So we're basically saying. He's not saying what his specific attachment is.

Eldar [01:46:06]:
What.

Eldar [01:46:06]:
What is that? How come he doesn't pay attention?

Phillip [01:46:08]:
Right, right. So, yeah, we still don't know that answer.

Eldar [01:46:11]:
We don't know the answer.

Eldar [01:46:12]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:46:12]:
I mean, I'm like, I'm not sure what to say.

Eldar [01:46:14]:
All right, that's cool.

Anatoliy [01:46:16]:
Why don't I hit tension is what you're asking me.

Eldar [01:46:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:46:20]:
Why you choose not to pay attention.

Anatoliy [01:46:22]:
So it's like, what. What does that mean? Why do I choose to not pay it attention?

Eldar [01:46:27]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:46:27]:
Like, what. What does that mean?

Eldar [01:46:29]:
If the answer.

Eldar [01:46:31]:
Right.

Eldar [01:46:31]:
If the answer that we're talking about here is. Is in paying attention. Okay, so what's actually going on?

Eldar [01:46:35]:
Yeah. Right.

Eldar [01:46:36]:
And acting in accordance to what, which you're observing according to the truth, out according to the knowledge that you actually have, which he says you're very intellectually understand. Why do you choose to not actually do that and let your mind run amok and do something the opposite, and then you're just confused as to, like, oh, this worked, or this didn't or this work. How did this come about? Like, you almost allowing right life to happen, and you're like, oh, this worked great. I don't know how this happened.

Phillip [01:47:02]:
Oh, I got it. So I think. I think that when he, when he gets the information and he's able to intellectualize it, he tells himself that he's done, like, he figured out the problem because he's able to figure it out in his head. He doesn't associate doing it in real life or doing the action as getting it done. I think once he gets the information and he absorbs that information, I think it's done. I think. Is it? I think there's a checkbox there. So if you're asking maybe why he's not paying attention, I think it's because there might be a sense of accomplishment information.

Eldar [01:47:43]:
But why would a person that actually has that knowledge then not implement that knowledge in reality?

Phillip [01:47:49]:
Well, that's a whole different thing.

Eldar [01:47:51]:
Well, no, but that's. Sure he gets it.

Eldar [01:47:53]:
Check mark. No problem. Yeah.

Eldar [01:47:54]:
Then life happens. Right, Philip? Problems happen.

Phillip [01:47:57]:
Right?

Eldar [01:47:57]:
Right.

Eldar [01:47:58]:
Why is that still not being applied?

Phillip [01:48:00]:
Well, it's. There has to be a fear attached to it.

Eldar [01:48:02]:
Right.

Phillip [01:48:03]:
So what is the fear? I don't answer, but I think also, for me to understand it, I have to understand that, like, somebody who thinks, and I think a lot, too.

Eldar [01:48:12]:
Right?

Phillip [01:48:12]:
Like, I definitely a big checkbox person, when I understand something, I understand it.

Eldar [01:48:17]:
Right?

Phillip [01:48:17]:
Like, I. I understand. We're talking about cold showers, right? Like, yeah, it helps inflammation. I buy it. I've done it before. Why do I intellectualize it? And then I don't go in the shower and I don't do it. I fear that it's so fucking cold, it's going to take me out of my routine. It's going to shock me, and I'm going to fall over and die.

Eldar [01:48:32]:
Right?

Phillip [01:48:32]:
That's the extreme example, right? All of a sudden, you do it a couple times, you realize, like, damn, this is cold. But, like, I am getting the benefits. But, like, like, why am I not doing it? Like, you fear something. Like, you fear it's too cold. You feel you can't handle it.

Eldar [01:48:44]:
You hit it on the nails. You hit it on the nail.

Phillip [01:48:47]:
So you're intellectualizing the inflammation. It's gonna help. It's gonna help your routine. It's gonna help you feel more refreshed. It's gonna give you a jolt. All the stuff is gonna benefit. But why you're not doing it? There's a fear of you can't handle it. You can't do it.

Phillip [01:48:58]:
It's gonna make you feel a certain type.

Eldar [01:49:00]:
So you.

Eldar [01:49:01]:
100%.

Phillip [01:49:01]:
You're checking the intellectual box. You're accumulating this information, but then you are allowing whatever the fear is. So we can just generalize and say, it's definitely a fear, right? Yeah, it's 100% of fear.

Eldar [01:49:12]:
Well, you can confirm it with him if you want.

Phillip [01:49:13]:
It's 100% a fear. What that fear is.

Eldar [01:49:15]:
I'll ask him.

Eldar [01:49:16]:
Maybe.

Eldar [01:49:16]:
Maybe disagree.

Eldar [01:49:17]:
So, yeah.

Phillip [01:49:17]:
Do you think that it is a fear? Holding. Holding you back from putting whatever you're it. You allowing yourself to intellectualize it, absorb the information, basically be able to say it, making it. Make it make sense to me, having.

Eldar [01:49:33]:
It resonate with me, sometimes even oppress you with it.

Eldar [01:49:35]:
Okay. Yeah.

Eldar [01:49:36]:
Yeah, sure.

Phillip [01:49:37]:
That.

Eldar [01:49:38]:
And then.

Phillip [01:49:38]:
But not being able to then put it into action, to then give it the benefit, because then what you're saying, essentially, is you're allowing your thought patterns to go in and out, and you're not fully benefiting from these things, because one day it's good, one day it's bad, and you're not able to put these things into action. So what is basically disabling you or not enabling you to put these things into action? So I'm thinking that it's definitely a fear attached to it. And I'm asking if you, I guess, agree with that, and if so, what that fear would be.

Eldar [01:50:13]:
Damn.

Eldar [01:50:14]:
Daniel.

Anatoliy [01:50:15]:
Daniel.

Eldar [01:50:16]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:50:16]:
I mean, like, it's like, it's a hard question to. To answer, because I can't sit here and tell you, like, okay, for sure. It's definitely not, like a. Like a fear.

Eldar [01:50:26]:
Right.

Anatoliy [01:50:27]:
And then I can't sit here and tell you where it's like, okay, this is the exact fear. So I'm not sure, like, what to say.

Phillip [01:50:35]:
Yeah, I think it is a tough question. And I think this goes back to, you know, you saying, or are saying from the beginning, like, you know, truly not knowing. Truly not knowing. But also this.

Eldar [01:50:49]:
This.

Phillip [01:50:50]:
This, I think, is the contradiction in totally, because he does know. He's intellectualizing these things, and he does know. So I think for him to say that he doesn't know, tough. Because he's able to pay attention at. To some degree and to gather this type of knowledge and to say that he doesn't know, it's asking why. Asking your question again. Why. Why are you paying attention? Or why you're not? Why you're not paying attention? So that's what we're asking.

Eldar [01:51:19]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:19]:
Why do you choose to turn off your mind then?

Eldar [01:51:21]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:51:21]:
What?

Eldar [01:51:21]:
So that. That's.

Phillip [01:51:22]:
That is the question. Because you're. You are able to turn it on and off. That's not the question. You're able to absorb this information, and then you're able to basically have a conversation with this information and make it make sense.

Eldar [01:51:35]:
That's right.

Phillip [01:51:36]:
So you're able to inspire, able to educate and instill it in other people and make it make sense. So why are you shutting that part off? Do you maybe. Do you not fully believe action?

Eldar [01:51:48]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:51:48]:
Do you not fully believe that it's there? And then you're saying you don't know.

Eldar [01:51:54]:
That. That.

Phillip [01:51:55]:
That's confusing to me. I don't know.

Eldar [01:51:58]:
I can't help you with it.

Phillip [01:51:59]:
Yeah, I don't.

Eldar [01:51:59]:
I don't know why you lose their enemy.

Eldar [01:52:03]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:52:04]:
All right, then.

Eldar [01:52:05]:
Final thoughts.

Phillip [01:52:06]:
Final thoughts.

Anatoliy [01:52:09]:
Like, I'm not sure how to answer the question.

Eldar [01:52:14]:
Did they answer it? I mean, you're not forced to answer it.

Anatoliy [01:52:17]:
No, but she's. Nobody confused? No, but it's not about being like, like, like, everything is definitely not, like, in, like, the dark. Like, I'm not just, like, shooting in the dark, like, and everything.

Eldar [01:52:30]:
Well, I hope so.

Eldar [01:52:31]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:52:32]:
Like, most of my stuff, like, you.

Anatoliy [01:52:33]:
You don't know I'm saying that, like.

Eldar [01:52:35]:
Majority your shit, you know? Like.

Anatoliy [01:52:37]:
Well, no, I mean, like, I. Like, I feel like I'm. I'm breaking it down, like, in my self example, on a very small scale, like, on a very micro scale.

Eldar [01:52:48]:
Right.

Anatoliy [01:52:49]:
But I think. I mean, like, all individuals or whatever, but I think that if we broke down all, like, our own things, right, then. Then it would, like, I think some of these things would be difficult to answer. I don't know if that makes sense. Like, I think that, like, if we broke down all the things that we do that we think, or, you know, don't think, make us happy or make us suffer. There's been plenty of things on the list that are gonna be on your happiness list that should be on your suffering list. And there could be things on your suffering list that could be on your happiness list.

Phillip [01:53:22]:
I get it. But again, it's not. I guess it's not. I guess it's hard when it's not, like, a really specific example, I guess, to dive deeper into it. I guess it's more. It's more general. And it seems like you're coming from a place of, like, you observing and, like, you giving general, so maybe you heard it, you know, from other things, and it's not directly attached, you know, to something that you've done maybe at a bigger scale. So, like, when it's an example that's, I guess, personal.

Phillip [01:53:51]:
I guess it's easier to dissect when it's more of a general topic, I think it's hard for you to, I guess, associate it. Associate to it.

Katherine [01:54:01]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:54:01]:
But in this topic, I'm not sure if there's, like, one specific thing that, like, is what is being talked about. Like, I'm saying from, like, a, like, overall perspective, being able to just essentially guess, like, correctly control your reality to get a desired outcome, pretty much, you know, ideally every single time.

Eldar [01:54:27]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:54:27]:
Give us an example where you can't have that outcome or where there's disconnect your life.

Anatoliy [01:54:34]:
I mean, it's definitely, like, you know, like a lot of things.

Eldar [01:54:36]:
I mean, give us one.

Anatoliy [01:54:38]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:54:40]:
And if you want, I give you heads up or where we're gonna go before you even give an example, if you want.

Anatoliy [01:54:45]:
No, I mean, I can give you.

Eldar [01:54:46]:
Heads up or where we can go. We're gonna go. We're gonna give me example. I'm gonna ask you whether or not you actually know what the right thing to do is in that situation. You will deduce that right thing in your own mind that this is the right thing to do, and then I'm gonna ask you, why don't you actually do it? This is how this is gonna go.

Anatoliy [01:55:05]:
Okay, so go ahead.

Eldar [01:55:06]:
There is no thing that you can tell me right now that there's. That is a broken connection that you actually don't know on how to solve, what to do. You're not that dumb.

Phillip [01:55:16]:
I think you'll be able to intellectualize any answer. I think you're gonna be able to answer any answer, is what he's saying, because.

Anatoliy [01:55:22]:
So why do you think it's not done?

Eldar [01:55:23]:
Oh, you tell me that.

Phillip [01:55:25]:
Yeah, that's what we're asking you, that.

Eldar [01:55:27]:
Because you're the one who's not doing it.

Phillip [01:55:30]:
Yeah, we don't know why.

Eldar [01:55:32]:
Maybe your ego is telling you, I intellectualize it, so I know, so therefore, I don't got to do this shit. I say, no, that's a cop out. Then you went to the fear based, which I agree with. I think there is some kind of a fear where you can't bridge the gap between the intellect, the right answer, and the right action between the two.

Anatoliy [01:55:49]:
Okay, so what could that fear be?

Eldar [01:55:52]:
You tell me.

Eldar [01:55:53]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:55:53]:
How am I supposed to figure this out?

Eldar [01:55:55]:
By giving an actual example. Give an example. You're gonna know where we're gonna end up. What is in your life right now is not connecting.

Eldar [01:56:05]:
Yes.

Anatoliy [01:56:06]:
Like. Like, it's hard to answer the question.

Eldar [01:56:09]:
Of course it is.

Eldar [01:56:11]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:56:11]:
I know why it is.

Eldar [01:56:12]:
Okay. Why?

Eldar [01:56:13]:
I think that you'll quickly find out that you. You're tricking yourself in it because you actually know what to do and how to do it, and you're. But something telling you not to do it because you're smart enough to know the answer to those problems.

Eldar [01:56:32]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:56:32]:
No, no. Like, for me, it's harder to answer it because I definitely feel overall better now. Like, I definitely feel overall, like, improvements in my life that I feel like is a.

Eldar [01:56:44]:
For sure.

Phillip [01:56:46]:
But if you're not able to answer this question, you're doing things, but then you don't know what. What it is.

Eldar [01:56:53]:
What? So that.

Phillip [01:56:54]:
So we're basically saying, like, you're not able to. To replicate the things that are good, right? Like, that's what we're saying. Like, people. People are doing.

Eldar [01:57:01]:
Yes.

Phillip [01:57:02]:
That's what he's saying consistently. That people are not knowing what the pattern is or they don't. They don't know what these positive things are so powered. So, yeah, so you're not in power. So you're saying that you feel good, but then you're not able to. To also tell us of why you're not taking certain actions to do certain things. So there's a definite block of where you have intellectual, like, where your intelligence is, where you're able to actually verbalize it, and then where the action is. So you're saying that you feel a lot better, but then you're also in the same breath, not able to say what is holding you back from taking the action.

Phillip [01:57:34]:
So you're actually. There probably is some points where you're taking these actions where you might not even be knowing that you're taking these actions. So you can't even actually tell us.

Eldar [01:57:44]:
Holy shit.

Phillip [01:57:45]:
Right? Is that what's happening? Cause if he's feeling good, right?

Eldar [01:57:48]:
So you're saying he just completely shoot in the dark.

Phillip [01:57:49]:
So, so what I'm saying is if. If he's saying that he is feeling good, and we'll take him for benefit, right? We'll just take it.

Eldar [01:57:56]:
Yeah, for.

Phillip [01:57:56]:
Well, wow.

Eldar [01:57:57]:
So the deductions are not even intellectual. Those are the ones that. Not even intellectual either. So you're just trying and then seeing what works.

Phillip [01:58:04]:
So he's.

Anatoliy [01:58:04]:
I mean, how are you.

Phillip [01:58:06]:
But based off of this example.

Eldar [01:58:08]:
Right.

Phillip [01:58:08]:
That's what I'm deducing.

Eldar [01:58:09]:
Is that.

Phillip [01:58:09]:
That based on what examples you can't. You cannot give. You're basically able to intellectualize this whole thing, but you're not able to give a specific example.

Anatoliy [01:58:19]:
So when I'm asked what those specific example on what?

Eldar [01:58:21]:
On.

Phillip [01:58:22]:
On basically, what is holding you back from taking this action?

Anatoliy [01:58:26]:
What action?

Eldar [01:58:27]:
Well, give us an life example. You can't give us a life example.

Anatoliy [01:58:31]:
Well, like, I'm generally doing. Like, it's. It's not like, um.

Eldar [01:58:36]:
You said you have many things. You can't come up with one.

Eldar [01:58:40]:
Yeah, I guess.

Anatoliy [01:58:40]:
It's like.

Eldar [01:58:42]:
That's a conundrum. We're gonna leave it at that.

Anatoliy [01:58:45]:
No, no, it's not a conundrum. Like, it's just like. Like, I.

Eldar [01:58:50]:
Wait.

Anatoliy [01:58:50]:
Like, I feel like it's hard for me to, like, to put, like, put my feelings into, like, words right.

Eldar [01:58:57]:
Right now. Right.

Anatoliy [01:58:58]:
But, like, I feel like Catherine's good at feelings.

Eldar [01:59:01]:
She's here. She can translate it.

Eldar [01:59:02]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:59:03]:
I'm saying is that, like. Like, honey, things are much better for me now. And, like, what.

Phillip [01:59:12]:
But what.

Anatoliy [01:59:13]:
What is better for me now?

Eldar [01:59:14]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:59:14]:
Say one example. That's what we're trying to get.

Eldar [01:59:16]:
Okay.

Anatoliy [01:59:17]:
My sleep is better now.

Eldar [01:59:18]:
Mm hmm. Yeah. Okay.

Eldar [01:59:20]:
Why?

Eldar [01:59:21]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:59:22]:
So what do you do? What action are you taking that's different than. Than what you did before? So what were you doing before? And then what are you doing now?

Eldar [01:59:28]:
That's. Yeah. Yeah.

Anatoliy [01:59:29]:
Well, before, on a daily basis, I was extremely anxious.

Eldar [01:59:35]:
And now you're not?

Anatoliy [01:59:36]:
And now I'm actively working on.

Eldar [01:59:40]:
Trying.

Anatoliy [01:59:40]:
To be more conscious about my anxiety and trying it and getting better with seeing things for what they are in those moments. And then those moments are resulting in less anxiety, because then they're. They're. They're repeated, and then now they're, like, familiar situations versus every time they before, more felt, like, unfamiliar situations.

Eldar [02:00:08]:
In this particular example, you're not shooting in the dark as much anymore.

Eldar [02:00:11]:
No.

Eldar [02:00:11]:
Because you've tied. You said, hey, no, I don't feel that.

Anatoliy [02:00:14]:
No, I don't feel in general that I'm babe.

Eldar [02:00:17]:
So, to bring you up to speed, totally pose the question about a concern or a problem, right. That a lot of people in life, they are living their lives, and they don't know they're doing things, they setting goals and stuff like that, and they don't know when they're experiencing life, when they're experiencing the suffering or they're experiencing happiness. They don't know actually where it came from and what they're actually doing right. So it means, like, they can't have the real tie. And a lot of times, when they do think that they do, it's wrong. You know what I'm saying? And Philip had an example here, an actual example of what was going on, where he was under the impression that he was doing the right thing, and I was going to bring him to happiness, but it was actually given him and his mom pain. And then he quickly, you know, understood it, broke the tie, and he realized that now it brought him more happiness, real happiness.

Eldar [02:01:05]:
Right.

Eldar [02:01:05]:
That's just an example. But a lot of people go about their lives not knowing those connections. So now we're pestering totally about some of the things, because he came up with this question in the first place or this conclusion. He said, in many things in his life, he still has this problem. So our challenge to him is, like, tell. Give us some examples. You know, he's like, I'm generally doing better now. He's given an example where he's happy.

Eldar [02:01:28]:
He sees the correlation where he solved the problem, and there's happiness from that, which is better sleep.

Eldar [02:01:34]:
Right.

Eldar [02:01:34]:
So we're trying to get an example out of him where it's still not the connections is not there, and why.

Katherine [02:01:39]:
He'S actually not the connections of how did he go from not sleeping very anxious to now? Less anxiety, better sleep.

Eldar [02:01:47]:
He's understanding.

Eldar [02:01:48]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:01:48]:
He's tackling anxiety, therefore, he's sleeping better. Correctly.

Eldar [02:01:51]:
Yeah. Yeah. So now.

Katherine [02:01:52]:
But he's not able to pinpoint what he's doing exactly to get there. Is that what you're asking?

Anatoliy [02:01:59]:
No.

Eldar [02:01:59]:
This is a general problem that he's facing.

Anatoliy [02:02:01]:
Yeah, no, in general, I.

Eldar [02:02:03]:
Shooting in the dark general.

Anatoliy [02:02:05]:
Like. And, like, I could be wrong about some of the.

Eldar [02:02:08]:
The.

Anatoliy [02:02:08]:
These things about, like. Like, I could be questioning them, but could be. I could be questioning them, but it doesn't mean that they could be, like, necessarily incorrect.

Eldar [02:02:22]:
Right.

Anatoliy [02:02:23]:
But I'm saying is that, like, like, for example, I mean, like, like, can we bring all of us and into the equation here? Like, how, like, how. How is an individual sure that the things that they're doing are bringing them happiness, and then how are they sure that the things that they feel are bringing them suffering are bringing them suffering? Like, how. How are people sure that they're able to properly correlate those things?

Eldar [02:02:48]:
It, like.

Anatoliy [02:02:49]:
Like, I don't know. Like, I feel like it's being misunderstood almost. Like, I'm not trying to, like, um. Like, hide something here or, like. Like, not say something or say that like, like.

Eldar [02:03:00]:
Yeah. The way you pose a question, the way you said yourself, hey, I'm suffering this in general. I have a lot of things that I fall under this. You would. Thinking about this would have actual real life examples. I understand your general consensus here.

Eldar [02:03:17]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:03:17]:
And I understand what you're trying to get to. You know what I'm saying? I am just curious, and I want to know what are some of those things that actually you're so puzzled behind?

Anatoliy [02:03:29]:
No, but I'm not puzzled about them. Like, what do you mean by puzzled about them?

Eldar [02:03:32]:
Well, you say you don't know whether or not those two connect.

Anatoliy [02:03:35]:
Like I'm saying is that, like, there. There's in general things that we. We do, right?

Eldar [02:03:42]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:03:43]:
Okay, let me clarify that. What I'm trying to say is that there's things that we do in the short term that affect our long term, and there's things that we decide we want to do in the long term that affect our short term.

Eldar [02:03:56]:
Okay, sure.

Eldar [02:03:57]:
Following. Right.

Anatoliy [02:03:57]:
So I'm saying is that I definitely, at times, find it hard to.

Eldar [02:04:08]:
Fully.

Anatoliy [02:04:09]:
Understand, I would say.

Eldar [02:04:10]:
Right.

Anatoliy [02:04:12]:
The things that I'm doing in the short term, how do they actually affect me, for example, in the long term, and the things I'm thinking about and wanting to do in the long term, how are they affecting me in the short, short term?

Eldar [02:04:22]:
Okay.

Anatoliy [02:04:24]:
Does that make sense?

Eldar [02:04:27]:
Well, sure it does.

Eldar [02:04:28]:
Yeah, I know.

Eldar [02:04:28]:
I get that.

Anatoliy [02:04:31]:
An example of that is that we all. We all have times where we do something in the short term that is like, I don't know, associate with, like, a good feeling potentially. Right. But in the long term, it hurts us.

Eldar [02:04:44]:
Do.

Anatoliy [02:04:45]:
Do we agree with that?

Eldar [02:04:46]:
I agree with this.

Eldar [02:04:47]:
Right.

Eldar [02:04:47]:
I agree with this. Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:04:49]:
What I'm saying is, and my question was that how do you get good at identifying and having the ability to basically understand that whole picked picture.

Eldar [02:05:00]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:05:01]:
Of what each action is leading towards or towards it was that.

Eldar [02:05:06]:
Was what to that?

Anatoliy [02:05:08]:
To pay attention.

Eldar [02:05:09]:
To pay attention.

Eldar [02:05:10]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:05:11]:
Because you're posing a question, you're asking, how do we get better.

Eldar [02:05:14]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:05:15]:
Then what did I tell you that? Mike, Mike, question to you is that maybe I have the wrong understanding or impression of what it means to actually pay attention.

Eldar [02:05:24]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:05:24]:
Because you could, like I said.

Eldar [02:05:27]:
Right.

Anatoliy [02:05:29]:
People could say all different things like, yeah, I'm paying attention, but, like, what does that mean? It just means that you're committing to.

Eldar [02:05:36]:
What you're basically just waiting. What does it mean to you? How about that? Let's not talk about all the people that are not here okay. Are you paying attention right now to our conversation?

Anatoliy [02:05:46]:
I am, yeah.

Eldar [02:05:47]:
All right, cool. So you can build on that.

Eldar [02:05:50]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:05:50]:
But then again, am I right? Like, it's like, I mean, if you.

Eldar [02:05:54]:
Can'T answer this, then we don't have a ground to work out of.

Eldar [02:05:58]:
Well, no.

Anatoliy [02:05:58]:
Like, like, we're having a conversation.

Eldar [02:06:00]:
We're continuing a string of, you know, thoughts, understandings that we're kind of, like, vibing, going back and forth, and we understand and what we're talking about. I think I'm paying attention to what you're saying.

Anatoliy [02:06:09]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:06:10]:
Maybe I'm not understanding it, but I'm trying. I'm paying attention.

Eldar [02:06:14]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:06:14]:
You know what I'm saying? And you. I think you're paying attention as well to what I'm saying.

Eldar [02:06:17]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:06:17]:
Does that mean you might understand it?

Phillip [02:06:19]:
See, when you told me your topic, I took it as like, oh, it's an interesting topic, but I think this eldar knows you better. He's asking specific because, like, he thinks the way that you're talking, like, he thinks the way that you're saying it, it's too specific of an example for you to just be talking in general. Like, I just took it for what it is at face value because I don't know. Totally as well as, you know.

Eldar [02:06:40]:
Totally.

Phillip [02:06:40]:
So when I heard the example, the.

Eldar [02:06:42]:
History, I know the projection. So, yes, question lands on me completely different.

Phillip [02:06:46]:
So this is the perfect pay attention example. So when I heard it, I took it as like, oh, I really like this topic. And then I started to internalize it, and then examples for me started to come out.

Eldar [02:06:56]:
That is correct. So that's why we went into your realm.

Phillip [02:06:58]:
So then we went to my room. So now you're going. Now, I wouldn't have went back to talking toy and said, like, oh, why are you thinking about, this is very specific example. I wouldn't have thought to think that because, I don't know. Totally like that. So now you're asking him, and then I'm thinking, oh, yeah. Like, this is a very specific example.

Eldar [02:07:13]:
That's correct.

Phillip [02:07:14]:
I would you.

Anatoliy [02:07:15]:
Why?

Phillip [02:07:16]:
Like, you didn't just turn on the radio and hear, like, Max Kellerman was not talking about.

Anatoliy [02:07:21]:
I'm also being honest and, like, I didn't stumble upon a particular situation.

Eldar [02:07:25]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:07:25]:
And say, like, okay, here's what this, this question is being derived from.

Eldar [02:07:29]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:07:29]:
Is that what you think happened?

Eldar [02:07:31]:
Potentially, yeah. Without you confirming or not knowing, I'm assuming that you came across some kind of thing or maybe.

Eldar [02:07:38]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anatoliy [02:07:40]:
I'm saying that I came. I.

Eldar [02:07:43]:
Then.

Anatoliy [02:07:43]:
You understanding that?

Eldar [02:07:44]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:07:44]:
At times I do things.

Eldar [02:07:46]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:07:46]:
In the short term.

Eldar [02:07:47]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:07:48]:
That affect my. Long term.

Eldar [02:07:49]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:07:49]:
Without understanding them.

Eldar [02:07:50]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:07:50]:
When I'm doing them. And then I also conjure up things I want to do in the long term.

Eldar [02:07:55]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:07:55]:
That also affect my. Or term.

Eldar [02:07:57]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:07:57]:
And then when certain things happen, I'm like, damn. Like, like.

Eldar [02:08:04]:
What was I thinking?

Eldar [02:08:05]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:08:06]:
It's almost like.

Eldar [02:08:09]:
And what do you think my natural curiosity about that is gonna be?

Anatoliy [02:08:12]:
When are those things?

Eldar [02:08:13]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:08:13]:
Like, what are you talking about?

Anatoliy [02:08:15]:
Because I, in general, just, like, all facets of my life, like. Like, work my. Like, my. My health. Like, like, yeah.

Eldar [02:08:26]:
Like saying anything.

Eldar [02:08:27]:
What?

Eldar [02:08:28]:
You're not saying anything.

Eldar [02:08:29]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:08:29]:
Like fitness and which. Like, health.

Eldar [02:08:32]:
What do you.

Eldar [02:08:33]:
Like, what's the actual thing?

Anatoliy [02:08:35]:
So, like, what?

Eldar [02:08:36]:
Like, what? Like health or. Or gym.

Eldar [02:08:39]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:08:39]:
Or diet or whatever. Like, which part of it that's not connecting is my question. What's the actual example? Like, which thing did you conjure in your mind that turned out to be opposite?

Phillip [02:08:50]:
You're giving general examples, and then you're. Now you're going into sectors, but there's still not specific things. So, like, you didn't just stumble across these things. So you're saying they're general, but I think as we're talking about, the more. And he's pressing you more on it. Yes. I do think once we break down each individual sector, you might have all these multiple things, but we're asking you to give these multiple things in detail. So we're asking basically the one thing.

Eldar [02:09:16]:
Okay.

Phillip [02:09:16]:
We're saying it's health, or we're saying whatever it is. What is that example? And I think we have to keep asking you. And then all of a sudden, probably after, like, some time, we're gonna get that example.

Eldar [02:09:25]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Phillip [02:09:25]:
Like, you go, but it's there, though.

Eldar [02:09:27]:
For the last two months, with. With the idea of wanting to lose weight, but. But in two months, you actually gain ten pounds. Like, that's an example.

Eldar [02:09:36]:
You know?

Phillip [02:09:36]:
That's an example.

Eldar [02:09:37]:
Yeah.

Phillip [02:09:37]:
Then we can work with.

Eldar [02:09:38]:
Then we can be like, okay, cool.

Phillip [02:09:39]:
That's very specific in a time frame.

Eldar [02:09:41]:
Do at the gym. You know what I'm saying? And, like, how did your mind. What was your mind thinking? How'd you conjure or go into the gym but you gained weight?

Phillip [02:09:49]:
Because then we can talk about and have a conversation about it. It's hard to have conversations of what you're talking about, because you're saying general things, and then you are saying more specific versions of something general, but there's still not enough for us to talk about. So he's still pressing you about asking for the specific example because we were not able to deduce anything. We're not, we don't know. So we're asking you to give us more like specific examples on that. So when you're saying nutrition, I don't.

Anatoliy [02:10:13]:
Know if this is like exactly in this realm. I get frustrated every time. Every time we have a game, once a week, I leave with it unhappy. Okay, okay. Every time, like, I'm like, like I go to the game, I play it, and then I'm frustrated during, before and after.

Eldar [02:10:34]:
Okay. Right.

Katherine [02:10:35]:
As an observer, I can.

Eldar [02:10:37]:
Right.

Anatoliy [02:10:38]:
I'm frustrated because I feel like I suck and I'm frustrated because I can't do what my mind understands physically. And I like, I have a hard time realizing that during the process. And then there's times where I'm convinced I like, no, that's it. I could do it now. Like what? What?

Eldar [02:10:58]:
What?

Anatoliy [02:10:59]:
My mind?

Eldar [02:11:00]:
Yeah, that's a very good example.

Anatoliy [02:11:01]:
You're going that of me every time.

Eldar [02:11:04]:
Listen, Phil.

Phillip [02:11:05]:
Alright, so what's specifically about the game or what that bothers you?

Eldar [02:11:09]:
Yeah. All right.

Phillip [02:11:11]:
So what was this specific example? So you were saying you're unhappy after every game.

Eldar [02:11:14]:
Why?

Anatoliy [02:11:15]:
Yeah, every time I go, yeah, yeah. I'm unhappy because I cannot manifest physically what my mind understands that, like I was once capable of doing.

Phillip [02:11:28]:
Hmm, okay, that's a good example.

Anatoliy [02:11:30]:
And I get frustrated with it every time because like, I go and I play basketball against people who I view as like a, like a garbage. Like they're like not, not actual garbage, but like they're, they're just not good.

Eldar [02:11:43]:
Mm hmm.

Anatoliy [02:11:43]:
And they act in particular ways and it infuriates me that I cannot, I can't leverage what like I know mentally and have done before. Like I can't physically act that, but at times I feel like I can. And then when the letdown happens, I'm just like, you kidding me? Like, you know, like still can't. Like, you know, like, um, that and that. Like, for example, that, that kind of scenario. Like, yes, it might be like this.

Eldar [02:12:17]:
Yeah.

Phillip [02:12:18]:
So, see, but now we can work with, see, now we can work.

Katherine [02:12:22]:
Now I have a, that's a great example about what he just described. Do you think it would feel different if you somehow thought that these guys were really good, that you were losing to really good guys with that?

Anatoliy [02:12:37]:
The thing is, I can't because I have too much information. And what gives me a bigger letdown is that the people I'm playing with, they still treat me in the way that I feel like my mind was before. They'll be like, yo, we can't let them shoot. Like, we can't let them do. Do this. And I can't even. Like, I don't even feel that same way that they feel about me, about myself.

Eldar [02:13:01]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:13:01]:
When the game is, like, they're almost, like, highlighting me as, like, this potential, like, dane date danger and threat, and I don't even feel that way myself anymore.

Katherine [02:13:10]:
So you don't believe in. Is it what you say?

Eldar [02:13:11]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:13:12]:
Like, for example, like, when. When we play Sam.

Eldar [02:13:14]:
Right.

Anatoliy [02:13:15]:
Like, if I go on the core, I sub in. If you notice every single time, he will, like, make it a thing to, like, explain to the person, to tell them and to, like, if anytime I ever make a shot, there's a huge, like, yelling process. Like, I don't know if you've seen this.

Eldar [02:13:32]:
Yeah, I've seen this.

Eldar [02:13:32]:
Right.

Eldar [02:13:33]:
I know.

Anatoliy [02:13:33]:
Like, he does this to make sure that. And a lot of teams vocalize this and do this. Like, I definitely notice it all the time. Right. But then, like, I'm almost like they're making it to be too big of a deal than it is now.

Eldar [02:13:46]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:13:47]:
You know, and that makes me even more upset when I can't. Like, I can't even be that.

Eldar [02:13:52]:
That.

Anatoliy [02:13:52]:
Like, a danger, at least that they're. They're saying that there's a dangerous animal here, right? And, like, I feel like I have no teeth. Like, I can't even bite anybody anymore.

Eldar [02:14:02]:
Yeah. Here we go.

Phillip [02:14:03]:
We got.

Eldar [02:14:04]:
We got a very good example.

Phillip [02:14:05]:
Now we can. Now we can say a lot, so. Right, so where my head goes is you.

Anatoliy [02:14:10]:
And you're. And I think that. Okay, elder can, like, um.

Eldar [02:14:15]:
Like.

Anatoliy [02:14:16]:
Like, do you feel what I'm talking about? Like, do you know exactly what. What I'm talking about?

Eldar [02:14:20]:
I know exactly what you're talking about.

Eldar [02:14:21]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:14:22]:
Like, that. That whole scenario.

Eldar [02:14:24]:
I'm not in your place, though.

Anatoliy [02:14:25]:
No, I know that.

Phillip [02:14:26]:
Do you remember I gave. Do you remember I gave an example about weight? I gave an example of. I remember. I don't know how long ago it was maybe year and a half ago. I was laying down, I looked at my stomach, and I was, like, really, really upset at myself. I was really down at myself, like, angry, disappointed. Being like, yo, what the fuck? I was going on a walk, and I was like, damn. I literally felt every extra pound that I was carrying.

Phillip [02:14:48]:
And I'm like, yo, I like, I felt truly sad. Like, I was emotionally, like, upset, like, and I usually don't get like, that about myself, about certain things, maybe mad, but, like, to get truly sad about something. So I realized, like, damn. Like, I'm in a position like that. I put myself in. I took accountability for where it was. And then I realized, like, okay, like, I have to do something differently. So you're obviously angry because there was some.

Anatoliy [02:15:12]:
A time, an identity.

Phillip [02:15:13]:
You have an identity of yourself, and now you have an unrealistic expectation, okay. Attached to that thing, okay? Whether you know this or not, you're.

Eldar [02:15:23]:
Which grew what a big, great big ego.

Phillip [02:15:26]:
And then what you're doing now is you're allowing all these other people's opinions of saying, hey, you know, watch out for this guy, blah, blah, blah, to reinforce. Constantly, constantly, constantly. Every time you go, which it makes sense to me without even seeing a game based off of what you said, why you would be angry. So either you're taking this and then you have to stop playing basketball and you have to work on your fitness and you have to work on your stamina and all this stuff and then come back to basketball, or you have to fully accept the new person that you are now, and that's it.

Eldar [02:15:56]:
And then.

Phillip [02:15:57]:
And then you can play basketball as a new version of yourself. No.

Eldar [02:16:00]:
Or no, say something.

Katherine [02:16:03]:
Mic drop. I feel like that deserves a mic drop.

Anatoliy [02:16:06]:
No, I mean, I mean, but now.

Phillip [02:16:08]:
We can work with that. See, because he.

Anatoliy [02:16:10]:
So this is what.

Eldar [02:16:10]:
I don't agree with what he's saying.

Phillip [02:16:12]:
And you know what's more important, before you even say that.

Eldar [02:16:14]:
Wait.

Phillip [02:16:15]:
Before he says that, though, this is what we learned today.

Eldar [02:16:18]:
Told.

Phillip [02:16:18]:
And he was saying it before. He speaks in generalities because he has a hard time expressing his feelings about his actual specific example. So he knows. He knows these specifically.

Eldar [02:16:29]:
He.

Phillip [02:16:29]:
He knew what he just said. He knew already, but he was having a hard time saying he doesn't want.

Eldar [02:16:34]:
To show this fucking person.

Eldar [02:16:35]:
No, but that's what I just said.

Phillip [02:16:37]:
That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

Eldar [02:16:38]:
Yeah, he's.

Eldar [02:16:39]:
This person doesn't want to accept the fact that he has a huge ass, ego and pride that he's bringing to the shade. Needs to drop it.

Eldar [02:16:45]:
No, no.

Eldar [02:16:45]:
Calm down with it.

Phillip [02:16:46]:
But that's the. That's the specific example. But what I'm saying is that all these things that he's saying are general things. What he. There's a. He's having a tough time being vulnerable and saying his feelings, hiding that's what that his problem is that he. So the fear is putting himself out there. Remember, we're asking him what the fear was.

Phillip [02:17:06]:
The fear is putting himself out there and saying what it is. That's the. That's the fear. But now he put it out there.

Eldar [02:17:12]:
Because there's an attachment to what he said.

Phillip [02:17:15]:
The old guy.

Eldar [02:17:15]:
Correct.

Eldar [02:17:16]:
Yes.

Eldar [02:17:17]:
The identity.

Eldar [02:17:18]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:17:18]:
Guy that kicks ass.

Phillip [02:17:19]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eldar [02:17:20]:
He's still alive and thriving in his mind.

Eldar [02:17:23]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:17:24]:
He's plaguing him every single time.

Eldar [02:17:26]:
Yeah, yeah.

Phillip [02:17:27]:
But in that.

Eldar [02:17:28]:
In goal of that person, like you just said, you gotta quit basketball. What?

Eldar [02:17:31]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [02:17:32]:
We didn't talk about this before.

Anatoliy [02:17:34]:
Definitely mentioned about quitting basketball because we.

Phillip [02:17:37]:
Talked about this because, like, for me, I was doing, like, like walking and stuff. I was on my own. I didn't have any outside opinion. But you. You have outside opinions. So in your example, if you didn't allow the outside opinions to be there, I would say, yes, basketball is going to help because it's great cardio, and you're going to be able to lose weight, especially in unison with a diet, nutrition and good mindset and all the conversations we have, all the walks that we do, all that. But this specific activity is coming with baggage for you and your expectation, because there's other people there that are basically calling you this certain type of guy that keeps, like, bringing up these old feelings.

Eldar [02:18:19]:
He has to keep pushing himself, so.

Phillip [02:18:20]:
He has to keep pushing himself to.

Eldar [02:18:22]:
Try to be that guy. You know what I'm saying? And when he's not, he gets extremely disappointed.

Phillip [02:18:27]:
Right. So he has to. He has to redefine this guy to be a new version, or you cannot play basketball anymore.

Katherine [02:18:33]:
And check, like, really check the expectation, because there's an expectation that he has linked to the basketball and.

Phillip [02:18:41]:
Yeah, no more basketball. It's over.

Anatoliy [02:18:53]:
I mean, if that's what I said.

Phillip [02:18:56]:
See, he saw for what? So in this specific example. In this specific example, going back for what?

Eldar [02:19:01]:
No, second.

Phillip [02:19:02]:
Okay.

Anatoliy [02:19:02]:
For what? To accomplish what I want to.

Eldar [02:19:05]:
You want to accomplish.

Anatoliy [02:19:07]:
I want to be that guy again.

Eldar [02:19:09]:
You want to be that guy again?

Anatoliy [02:19:12]:
So in this specific example, like, I concisely remember there. There was.

Eldar [02:19:19]:
Who's that guy there? What do you.

Eldar [02:19:21]:
What do you mean?

Eldar [02:19:21]:
You have to describe him, right? You have to now clearly describe who he is and then set yourself up right in such actions and goals and things in order to get there.

Anatoliy [02:19:30]:
Yeah, I was just doing that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I was just. I mean, I felt in the realm of what I was doing, I was good at what I did, and my actions lined up to the people that I was playing with around me. Around me. Like, believed in that and, like, they believed in that same thing.

Eldar [02:19:48]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:19:48]:
Like, I definitely remember a clear span where there were. There was even, like, plenty of times we would play because, like, I mean, in. In a general, the eyes would always be more elder.

Eldar [02:20:01]:
Mm hmm.

Anatoliy [02:20:02]:
He's a better overall player, much more athletic, and just, like, in general, better. And, I mean, like, whenever you play with someone good like that, you obviously, I mean, like, everyone else becomes better, because now, like, you get better looks, you get better, like, just better scenarios. Like, I felt like there was a consistent time, whether it was in pickup or stuff like that, where, like. Like, I know that he believed in my shot so much that he would look away his own shot and give it to me because he probably felt like I could score it.

Eldar [02:20:35]:
Right.

Anatoliy [02:20:36]:
Like, he would rather give it to me that I had a higher chance to score it then probably.

Eldar [02:20:41]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:20:42]:
Then I had to redefine my game recently because the dynamic is different. I became, again, the shooter and the person who scores. Now I know I can score. You know what I'm saying? Before, I didn't have to because I had a right hand man who shoot lights out. It would be like, lights out. You know what I mean? But that's not the case anymore, so I had to readjust. And I'm not blaming you for. But that's just what it is.

Eldar [02:21:03]:
You know what I'm saying?

Anatoliy [02:21:03]:
I, like, there was no chance of, like, I know that, like, if I was open or stuff like that, or, like, I wouldn't get ever, like, looked away or, like, I know that the people I was playing with, they felt the same way that I felt in myself at that time, and I just. Yeah.

Eldar [02:21:19]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:21:19]:
I definitely felt good about, like, this.

Phillip [02:21:21]:
Sounds like it has nothing to do with basketball. It has, like, your. It's your, like, your identity to other.

Eldar [02:21:30]:
You keep this.

Eldar [02:21:31]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:21:32]:
You basketball.

Eldar [02:21:33]:
You.

Phillip [02:21:33]:
You keep describing nothing about basketball. You keep describing your role to eldar and your role to your team and, like, the value that you gave and, like, how people were looking at you. Like, you. You could have told me that it was swimming. You could have told me it was tennis. You could have told me it was a different job or, like, something else. This has, like, you're giving, like, no specific basketball example. So, like, I think it should be really easy for you to leave basketball and then figure out.

Phillip [02:21:58]:
So, like, if you went to the pool tomorrow and you laid outside and you were able to not be around anybody else, just able to relax and just able to think. I think that would be a healthier environment for you than to be on the basketball court.

Eldar [02:22:09]:
Well, duh.

Phillip [02:22:11]:
Right.

Eldar [02:22:11]:
Well, of course.

Phillip [02:22:12]:
But, like, what's important about basketball?

Eldar [02:22:15]:
Disregard of the attachment that's here, that plays here. You know what I'm saying?

Phillip [02:22:18]:
It's the relationships, though.

Eldar [02:22:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:22:20]:
It's extreme. There's a huge attachment here. There's a huge role. There's a huge dynamic that was here, that was lost. It's no longer here.

Eldar [02:22:27]:
So.

Phillip [02:22:28]:
So does he have enough pain in order to say, I'm willing to get back to that point in order to get those relationships back?

Anatoliy [02:22:35]:
Well.

Eldar [02:22:36]:
Well, the thing is you can either readjust yourself to be a different type of role player, which he's not. He's not probably okay with, like, being a rebound.

Phillip [02:22:43]:
Doesn't sound like he wants to do this.

Eldar [02:22:44]:
No. Right. Or you have to get back to what he used to remember how he was. But that's also a road. Whichever way. Whichever way. It's a humbling fucking thing.

Phillip [02:22:53]:
But he has to decide. You have to make a decision. No, no, I'm saying he has to.

Eldar [02:22:57]:
Make decision, but he's the one who's saying that. I have a disconnect every time I go play basketball. Apparently what I love to do, and we talked about this a while ago, even in the other office. Where does you. Do you really enjoy what you do, actually on the basketball court?

Phillip [02:23:10]:
That's what I'm asking. It doesn't sound like a basketball problem. Or doesn't it sound like a passion towards basketball?

Eldar [02:23:14]:
Correct. Yeah.

Phillip [02:23:15]:
Like, if you guys all played cards and poker together, maybe he can. Maybe he. Maybe he can spend time with all you guys in a different realm and feel like he is valued because it seems like you want to be valued and be really good at your craft. So it seems like you can accomplish this outside of basketball.

Anatoliy [02:23:30]:
But I'm in a. Like, at that time, I was physically in much better shape.

Eldar [02:23:35]:
Oh, yeah. Of course, he was younger. He was, yeah.

Anatoliy [02:23:37]:
Like, the big. A big variable here is the shit shape I was in. I can play endlessly. I could run endlessly.

Eldar [02:23:46]:
Shoot endlessly.

Eldar [02:23:47]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:23:47]:
Shoot endlessly without getting tired.

Eldar [02:23:49]:
Now it's like, you know, maybe a couple shots in the beginning of the.

Eldar [02:23:51]:
Game and that's it.

Eldar [02:23:52]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:23:53]:
Now I know I don't have, like. Yeah, I just feel like I've.

Eldar [02:23:56]:
But the person never humbled themselves to say, like, this is what I'm working with, and I'm okay with this role now, his new redefined role, but he's still amping himself up based on what the other guys remember him and what he remembers himself over.

Eldar [02:24:07]:
Hmm.

Eldar [02:24:08]:
You know what I'm saying?

Phillip [02:24:09]:
So are a lot of your, like, fitness goals.

Anatoliy [02:24:12]:
I'm like, end of career Carmelo, trying to still start. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eldar [02:24:21]:
There's a guy that.

Eldar [02:24:22]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:24:22]:
Like, anyone. Any end of career player.

Eldar [02:24:24]:
Yeah. Right.

Anatoliy [02:24:25]:
That's, like, pretty much, you know, like, done. Yeah, but they still, like, not accepting that.

Eldar [02:24:29]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:24:30]:
They're still, like, trying to, like, start or something like that.

Eldar [02:24:33]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:24:33]:
Like, they can't take, like, the. They're like.

Eldar [02:24:37]:
The thing is. The thing is, the truth of the matter is you working against something even bigger than that because you still have the youth. You're not fucking 40 years old.

Anatoliy [02:24:45]:
No, no, I know that.

Eldar [02:24:47]:
You know what I'm saying?

Eldar [02:24:47]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:24:48]:
You are actually in your prime.

Eldar [02:24:49]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:24:49]:
You can do some damage if you wanted to.

Phillip [02:24:52]:
That's what I'm asking. Is it really about basketball? Does he love basketball? We're asking, does he love basketball, or does he love the relationship?

Eldar [02:24:59]:
Every time he plays basketball, he's unhappy with the outcome.

Phillip [02:25:02]:
I understand this. That's why I'm asking, like, where's the passion in basketball? Why is it important?

Eldar [02:25:07]:
Exactly. But he continues to do this.

Eldar [02:25:08]:
Why?

Anatoliy [02:25:09]:
No, I mean, I have moments of, like, doing well and feeling happy.

Eldar [02:25:14]:
Don't hide behind that now. You already said what you said.

Anatoliy [02:25:16]:
No, I know.

Eldar [02:25:17]:
I said every time.

Anatoliy [02:25:18]:
Yeah, in the games. In the games, right. Like when we play pickup, it's a little different because it's not as physically.

Eldar [02:25:27]:
Falling, not as competitive. Maybe because you ties yourself to winning too.

Eldar [02:25:31]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:25:32]:
Like in. In the games in particular. I feel textbook the same way. I know certain things and. And I remember certain things, and I feel certain ways, and I cannot act out those things, and I cannot create those, like, uh, outcomes based on some of the other decisions that I've chosen to make in my life.

Eldar [02:25:53]:
That's right.

Eldar [02:25:54]:
But I don't see how you don't. You can't deduce why what's happened to you is actually is happening to you. You know exactly what's going on here.

Eldar [02:26:04]:
I do, yeah.

Eldar [02:26:05]:
This is not a shot in the dark. No, but you keep doing it is the problem why? And then we're gonna find out again. You, ego, pride, attachment.

Phillip [02:26:19]:
Attachment, 100%. We already understand he's attached to this old guy.

Anatoliy [02:26:22]:
Of course.

Eldar [02:26:23]:
Yeah, of course.

Eldar [02:26:24]:
For sure.

Eldar [02:26:25]:
Relationships that doesn't exist.

Phillip [02:26:27]:
Identity also being, you know, a certain type of person being great at your craft, being whatever you're doing, like, right. So essentially, that guy. That guy again, the relationships, the things that are outside of yourself that, that are admirable, but, like, to me, it's not good enough to say that I'm passionate about it because you can take those same things and you can play poker, you can do other things, whether we can go for a walk, you can get these kind of things through other stuff. So to me, you're not still saying anything about basketball specifically. That shouldn't be putting you on the court yet.

Eldar [02:26:58]:
The question is whether or not he knows what needs to be done in order to get back to that state.

Phillip [02:27:03]:
And that's why I asked him. It's a decision that you have to make. Are you right now, are you saying I'm willing to make the decision to get back to that guy and do whatever it takes? Is it doing more shots, staying in the gym extra? Is it, is it, is it, is it attaching weight? Is it attaching losing weight to playing basketball? Or are we just going to put more general examples to losing weight? I want to lose weight because I want to feel good and it makes me feel good. Or are you going to say, hey, I want more energy so I can play basketball and get back to this point and everything that I do is going to be as a result of this? Like, to me, that's a decision you have to make.

Eldar [02:27:38]:
Do you not know?

Anatoliy [02:27:39]:
I do know.

Eldar [02:27:41]:
So then the thing doesn't work.

Eldar [02:27:43]:
What thing?

Eldar [02:27:44]:
You think your original thing. This is a bad example. Yes or no? The reason why it's. Maybe it sticks in your mind a little bit more. It's because your ego is not allowing you to examine it. Examine it the way we would examine it here when you now finally paid attention to the things that are being said and understood them at their core, because you understand you're not dumb guy. You know what I'm saying, right?

Eldar [02:28:10]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:28:10]:
What is their attachment doing to you? It's holding you from actually putting in it in practice. Yes or no?

Anatoliy [02:28:18]:
So what do you mean by the attachment?

Phillip [02:28:20]:
Is your attachment to the old guy.

Eldar [02:28:22]:
To the old guy?

Eldar [02:28:23]:
Right? Yeah.

Eldar [02:28:24]:
It's what's holding you away. From doing what? From putting it down, from reevaluating the situation. Maybe picking something else up new or starting from scratch.

Eldar [02:28:33]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:28:33]:
I mean, yeah, if. Yeah, if you guys feel that I need to do something different, I'm definitely open to listen.

Eldar [02:28:40]:
It's your life.

Phillip [02:28:41]:
No, you have to. You.

Anatoliy [02:28:43]:
We're not like, like forced me into something or something like that, if you.

Eldar [02:28:49]:
If you. If you are being honest here.

Eldar [02:28:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:28:51]:
And seems like you are. You said, eldar, every time during, after the game, I come out of it unhappy. I go in there anticipating happiness, and I get unhappy. And I know why.

Phillip [02:29:00]:
That was the honest part. Hundred percent. There's no denying that. We both felt that.

Eldar [02:29:03]:
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%.

Eldar [02:29:05]:
Okay.

Eldar [02:29:06]:
What I mean. And if you want to do something about it, you have to outline what you know needs to be done. You have to be honest with yourself.

Eldar [02:29:13]:
Okay.

Anatoliy [02:29:13]:
So what needs to be done?

Eldar [02:29:15]:
You have to say, what do you want to do? Do you want to get back to the guy? Do you want to reinvent the other, a new person? Do you want to let go of that attachment, or do you want to continue to be how you are right now in this physical shape and then maybe reinvent your role where you are?

Anatoliy [02:29:30]:
No, I want to get back to where I wasn't better.

Eldar [02:29:33]:
There you go. So then you have to define that and say, okay, this is. This is what it is, and create a plan around it. And then ask yourself, am I doing that? If you're not doing that totally, how can you allow yourself to go to these games and expect a good outcome?

Anatoliy [02:29:48]:
No, I can't.

Eldar [02:29:49]:
So you're.

Phillip [02:29:50]:
So right now, your entry level, to get back into this and ease yourself back into it, or just get back into it in general, is lower your expectation. Understand that right now, if you're gonna go back and play basketball, that you are not that guy right now. So your expectation has to go. Once you accept that you can play the basketball game, everybody else can say whatever they want. You're playing the game, and you understand. Yeah, you can still be upset, you still can be angry, and you can still carry all that with you. But I think that anger is going to turn more into motivation, and it's going to actually propel you versus actually hold you back and make you go home and say, like, damn, like playing another game. And I didn't live up to, like, whoever this was.

Phillip [02:30:29]:
So I think anger, it could actually be a good motivator when you fully accept the real situation, which you actually just described, because you actually have that anger inside you and you just shared it. So now the anger can be used towards propelling you forward if you want that. But again, you have to say what you want. So if you're saying that I want to be that guy again, it's a matter of pulling that back, accepting it, utilizing that anger to fuel you and then putting all those things into place. But until you do that, I think you're going to still run into the same type of anger that you're getting, which is allowing other people to kind of dictate what you're doing and then going home and getting down on yourself about playing basketball every day or every day.

Eldar [02:31:09]:
The whole thing is that this example, even though he's being honest, he knows the answers to these things.

Phillip [02:31:14]:
That's like we were saying in the beginning. We knew that he knew the answer.

Eldar [02:31:17]:
He knows the answers to these things.

Eldar [02:31:18]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [02:31:19]:
The question is, why choose otherwise? That, why are you choosing then otherwise to continue to beat yourself up?

Phillip [02:31:27]:
This was his, this is, this is the thing. This is him coming up with it. This is the topic.

Anatoliy [02:31:33]:
Is that true?

Phillip [02:31:34]:
Because you know, you know what, what can be done? You actually just described the situation, so. Yeah. Why then, you know inside you're not doing it. So if you just said right now that you want to be that guy and, and you've, I'm sure you've wanted to be that guy for the last couple of months, whatever it's been, um, why are you not doing that thing? Why are you not taking the actionable steps to be that guy? That's what we're asking, right? We're asking what's, what's holding him back from that.

Eldar [02:32:10]:
Yeah.

Phillip [02:32:11]:
What's the disconnect?

Eldar [02:32:12]:
She knows where's words. Why is it, so there's a clear disconnect between, like, he has these things in his life that are not connected.

Eldar [02:32:19]:
Right?

Eldar [02:32:19]:
We're saying that, sure, everybody has them, but when you start really paying attention to what the fuck is going on, you know exactly what, what's going on, you know what I mean?

Eldar [02:32:28]:
Yeah, yeah. Yes.

Anatoliy [02:32:30]:
You went. When, when you're saying that, it definitely, it makes sense that, yeah, when I'm able to sit down and pay attention and think about them, I know exactly what needs to be done. You don't play dog, but I don't pay attention enough in the everyday, all parts of my life to bridge the gap.

Phillip [02:32:50]:
So this is the question, is it not important enough?

Eldar [02:32:52]:
Thank you. Thank you.

Phillip [02:32:54]:
So are you not being honest enough about the situation and saying, yeah, maybe you have this old attachment to basketball and you really want this, but maybe, maybe you're not allowing yourself to say, oh, what could be? Maybe there's something else that you're maybe gonna be more happy about. Maybe you actually.

Eldar [02:33:12]:
That's lack of humility.

Eldar [02:33:13]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [02:33:14]:
So, so to say to yourself and say, you know what? I do fucking suck right now.

Phillip [02:33:18]:
I'm not convinced. I'll say this, I'm not convinced that. That you want to be that guy. Because if you did, with knowing all these examples, I don't think that you have a strong enough reason to go back and be that guy in basketball. I think you are just upset that you're not that guy anymore, but you're not convincing me, at least that basketball is the reason to go back and to do all these things. I think if you are doing the green juice, you're going to the gym more, you're doing all this stuff, right, to try to get there, and you know what it's going to take. And you're saying, I want to be this guy. Why are you not following through on it? To me, that's not a big enough reason and it's not.

Phillip [02:34:03]:
Basketball is not a big enough reason for you to follow through. So I think the next step is to reevaluate and say, why do I keep thinking about basketball? And could there be something else? And maybe I don't. I don't know if I am being honest with myself, that can be maybe something that you're saying, hey, am I being honest with myself about my attachment to basketball and this guy that I was? Do I really want to be this guy? I think that's the question that you should be asking based off of your knowledge and then your lack of following through on being this guy.

Eldar [02:34:35]:
No, he's looking at me like I stole his cuz.

Anatoliy [02:34:39]:
Yeah, I mean, like, what kind of reply would you like? Like, I'm not like a lot. No, I know, but like what?

Eldar [02:34:45]:
What?

Anatoliy [02:34:46]:
Like he's asking you a direct question.

Eldar [02:34:49]:
Do you actually want to be that fucking guy?

Eldar [02:34:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:34:52]:
He's not convinced.

Anatoliy [02:34:54]:
Okay, so if I answer yes or no, does it matter.

Phillip [02:35:01]:
In the moment? No, because only time is going to tell.

Eldar [02:35:05]:
Right.

Phillip [02:35:05]:
So if you're telling me you're going.

Anatoliy [02:35:07]:
To be this guy, that's what I'm saying is that like when, when you ask me, like, do you want to be that guy?

Eldar [02:35:12]:
Right?

Anatoliy [02:35:12]:
Like you said a bunch of things and then you asked me if I want to be that guy and it's like I could tell you yes and I could tell you no, but then it's like, like I'm not sure what the correct answer is.

Eldar [02:35:23]:
No. No.

Eldar [02:35:23]:
What do you mean? The correct answer is correct? Yes is how you feel and what you actually want. If you actually want that, no. But then, you know, tell no, time will pass and you say bullshit. Bullshit.

Anatoliy [02:35:37]:
No.

Eldar [02:35:37]:
Based on your.

Eldar [02:35:38]:
No, exactly. Then. Right.

Anatoliy [02:35:39]:
So then, like, yeah, there's no question here then, right?

Phillip [02:35:41]:
No, no, because so my. This is my proof so far. My proof so far is that you have been doing healthier things, right? You have been doing better, right. You've been eating better, you've been exercising more, and you're still saying this about basketball. So if you were telling me, hey, in the last couple of weeks, I've seen improvements on the basketball court, then I would say, like, okay, maybe I get it. But if you're doing healthier things now and you're saying that you're feeling good, you were saying you were feeling good, right. So overall, if you were feeling good, but you're still feeling bad in basketball, like, there's a, there's still a disconnect in basketball. So that, that leads me to, like, I.

Anatoliy [02:36:17]:
There, there was. There's still a lot that needs to be done physically for changes in how I feel about basketball to be taken to. Well, to. To be had, because, like, also, again, it depends on what kind of basketball. Like, that kind of basketball that I'm talking about. This is, like, the most physically.

Eldar [02:36:39]:
Totally.

Eldar [02:36:40]:
Right.

Anatoliy [02:36:41]:
So it's with, like, I haven't had enough of that for actual, like, significant change to have occurred, to actually be able to have the opportunity to feel better in that realm.

Eldar [02:36:54]:
So you say you need more basketball?

Anatoliy [02:36:57]:
I'm not saying anything there.

Eldar [02:36:59]:
No.

Anatoliy [02:36:59]:
I'm saying that, like, I need to continue to build more and do more healthier, like, habits so that I could.

Eldar [02:37:13]:
One day.

Anatoliy [02:37:14]:
No, so I can lose the weight and gain, like, the strength I need to be able to do. To be able to see significant change.

Eldar [02:37:23]:
To do what you want and get the outcome.

Eldar [02:37:26]:
Yes.

Anatoliy [02:37:27]:
Yes.

Phillip [02:37:28]:
Like, I'm just not convinced that that thing's basketball.

Eldar [02:37:30]:
Well, I mean, generally speaking, it's not basketball. Basketball is just a byproduct of getting.

Anatoliy [02:37:36]:
It's one thing.

Eldar [02:37:37]:
It's the avenue to getting to where all day. Right. Feel recognized. You know what I mean? Be that guy.

Mike [02:37:42]:
But he's.

Phillip [02:37:43]:
What about work? He can do that in work.

Eldar [02:37:44]:
Hundred percent.

Eldar [02:37:45]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [02:37:45]:
So different avenues that he has where you can actualize himself to feel that way, for sure. But basketball is just one example that he brought up. He's willing to talk about.

Anatoliy [02:37:54]:
No, but it's.

Eldar [02:37:55]:
It's.

Anatoliy [02:37:55]:
It's in all things, like, the maintenance of my house, like the, like, my ability to work. All of this stuff is affected by my, like, physical and mental health.

Eldar [02:38:06]:
Like, yeah.

Anatoliy [02:38:07]:
I mean, it is for everybody.

Eldar [02:38:09]:
Right.

Anatoliy [02:38:10]:
And as these things improve all of those.

Eldar [02:38:13]:
Not.

Anatoliy [02:38:13]:
Not only basketball, all those things are, I think, are bound to improve.

Phillip [02:38:19]:
So what you're really saying is that you want to do all these things so you can have energy to then give your time to all these things, whether it's doing stuff around your house, you know, playing basketball and doing all that. So to me, if you told me, like, I want more energy and that's your focus to do all these other things, then I would say yes. But if it's just to be back to that guy who you were in basketball, I don't think that's a strong enough example to follow through.

Anatoliy [02:38:45]:
No, it's not. He opened up with, yeah, that is something stronger.

Eldar [02:38:49]:
That's what I was saying.

Anatoliy [02:38:49]:
I was just giving one example. No, it's in everything, like, this isn't all aspects of my life. In all aspects of my life where I'm unhappy with. I'm unhappy with them because I'm aware of a certain standard and I guess, like, capability that I have or had or have experienced. And if it's not there or more, then it brings me unhappy, it brings me offering. So as I'm improving this thing, which I am, I definitely feel better, and I feel clear differences in all of those different things.

Eldar [02:39:33]:
Okay.

Phillip [02:39:34]:
Yeah. That makes more sense to me when you're talking about multiple examples versus just basketball.

Anatoliy [02:39:40]:
But no, I mean, you asked me to bring, like, one. One example, and now that was just one that came to mind where I'm like. Like, I feel that this could. This consistent way towards it, and I can't contribute in the way that I once was able to, and I can't be that. That person.

Eldar [02:39:58]:
You would like to. And you would.

Anatoliy [02:39:59]:
And I would like to.

Eldar [02:40:00]:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [02:40:01]:
Because the bar is high.

Eldar [02:40:03]:
Got it.

Eldar [02:40:03]:
You know what I'm saying? If the bar was lower.

Anatoliy [02:40:06]:
That's what I'm saying. And that's in all. All of the things that I haven't. Happiness, that I have a high bar in them. And unless that bar is met and exceeded, then I'm.

Eldar [02:40:18]:
Then.

Anatoliy [02:40:18]:
Then, like, it brings me unhappiness. But there are probably times where I have unrealistic expectations that are driven by, like, ego and pride that probably. Probably hold me back towards smaller marginal improvements because of it. Like, I want to. I want to rob the bank at once.

Eldar [02:40:44]:
Oh, yeah.

Anatoliy [02:40:44]:
You know, rather than siphon a little bit. For sure at times, obviously.

Eldar [02:40:49]:
Mm hmm. Sure.

Anatoliy [02:40:51]:
But I also am not doing, like. Like, I didn't think about it in those kind of ways when it comes to, like, you know, eating in different ways or stuff like that, where it's like, okay, I'm gonna just do that just because of that.

Eldar [02:41:03]:
It. That.

Anatoliy [02:41:04]:
That more just kind of, I guess, like, uh, came together from. From just, like, feeling better, you know?

Eldar [02:41:10]:
Baby, did you get it? The problem dilemma, this last part?

Katherine [02:41:16]:
No.

Eldar [02:41:16]:
No.

Eldar [02:41:17]:
Okay.

Eldar [02:41:19]:
All right. Well, what do we have? So you agree now on the fact that you don't have things that you can actually think through and connect the dots for yourself. Those things that you actually, like you just said, if I sat down and paying attention to what actually needs to be done, you find real good conclusions, and you actually know how to connect those dots.

Anatoliy [02:41:40]:
I do.

Eldar [02:41:41]:
You do agree with that? I think that. I think that's for everybody.

Katherine [02:41:44]:
I was just gonna say, me too.

Eldar [02:41:46]:
Oh, you agree too?

Eldar [02:41:47]:
Hey.

Eldar [02:41:50]:
Yeah, I agree that, you know, I think people underestimate the power of our own mind and our own ability to think and figure and bridge these gaps, to say what makes us happy and what makes us suffer.

Katherine [02:42:04]:
That was a great one. Although it's an underestimator of my own power.

Eldar [02:42:08]:
That's right. You kept putting yourself in that hole where you just talking down to yourself for a very long time until you discovered yourself and you realize that you do have ability to think and. And change.

Katherine [02:42:21]:
I don't play any sports, but I also had, you know, this, like, what were you saying? Like, this idea of the person that he wants to be versus the person that. That you actually are. And when you're not fulfilling that or you're, you know.

Eldar [02:42:41]:
Yeah.

Katherine [02:42:42]:
You know, you have this, you know, like, when you're not fulfilling that, then you slow. You're, like, slowly kind of like hating your. Your own self.

Eldar [02:42:50]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Katherine [02:42:52]:
You know, so I understand that.

Eldar [02:42:56]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:42:56]:
It's humbling to be able to see yourself for what it is, see things for what they are.

Katherine [02:43:01]:
Very.

Eldar [02:43:02]:
And I actually understand. And point the finger at yourself, and.

Katherine [02:43:05]:
It'S hard to be vulnerable.

Eldar [02:43:07]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:43:07]:
And if you don't have, like you said, sense of humor, a little bit sense of humor, you can laugh at yourself sometimes and point the finger and stuff like that, you could be in. You can be in trouble, you know? Yeah. But it's also earned, again, if you don't have those tools and if you have pride and ego, which constantly are hammering you, you know, they're gonna find you.

Eldar [02:43:27]:
They're gonna.

Eldar [02:43:27]:
They're gonna lead you to a dark place that's inevitable.

Katherine [02:43:32]:
Yeah, we spoke about that last week, about how humbling it is you know, whether you seek therapy or not or you're just working on yourself in whatever way you can. Yeah, it's very humbling.

Eldar [02:43:44]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:43:46]:
I've never. I mean, I've heard you say many, many times now, you know, how you make fun of yourself and you call yourself an idiot now, very openly, you know, because you realize what you're doing after you've done it or whatever, but you realize, okay, what a dummy I am.

Eldar [02:44:01]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:44:02]:
And that's.

Eldar [02:44:02]:
That's.

Eldar [02:44:03]:
That's humble, you know? So was our final thoughts. So on this. We got him, man.

Eldar [02:44:15]:
Got on.

Eldar [02:44:15]:
We caught him.

Phillip [02:44:16]:
Oh, I learned.

Eldar [02:44:19]:
I learned that.

Anatoliy [02:44:20]:
I learned a lot.

Phillip [02:44:20]:
Yeah, I learned that. I learned a lot. And I learned how. How it's difficult for totally to express himself, but I think deep down inside, he knows all these things. I understand him better in terms of what he is looking for, what that attachment is, and then what he's doing.

Eldar [02:44:43]:
It gives you a little bit of a disgusting feeling on it.

Phillip [02:44:46]:
No, I think it gives me more insight into his psychology and how he thinks about himself and then actually what he wants.

Eldar [02:44:53]:
Wants.

Phillip [02:44:53]:
Because I think a lot of the times that we talk, he's very good at absorbing information and then. And then saying it.

Eldar [02:45:00]:
Now you're channeling Dennis.

Phillip [02:45:01]:
It's very, very easy for him to. To talk about these things when they're more in general. But I think deep down inside, you showed also that you can point out that because you know him better, when he does think about these things and the things that do resonate with him, they are attached to certain things about his specific self, and then once he's able to bring them to the surface and, like, you were able to be honest, look, we're able to come and have more of a deeper conversation about it. So the more honest that you are, the more of a deep conversation we can have, and then more of a result or more of, like, a realization can come as a result of it, so.

Eldar [02:45:39]:
Well, you won't hold your breath.

Phillip [02:45:41]:
Oh, definitely not.

Eldar [02:45:42]:
Oh, no.

Phillip [02:45:43]:
Oh, for him. Oh, I thought you meant, oh, for me. Would I do that? No, no, hold your breath. I thought you were going to ask me, like, would it be. Would I be able to do it myself? Like.

Eldar [02:45:50]:
No.

Phillip [02:45:50]:
Like, I thought you're gonna ask, like, me to do it. Like, I wouldn't hold my tongue, like, for myself to say it, but for him. No, I think today was promising for Toli, because I haven't heard him be honest about that. We've been more talking about, like, more general examples and today, he was very specific after we asked him a couple of times.

Eldar [02:46:09]:
Yeah.

Phillip [02:46:09]:
And then we were able to understand where he was. And again, I'm just able to understand him more. So I definitely have more insight into Tolly psychology and why he does things versus why he doesn't, so.

Eldar [02:46:21]:
Okay.

Eldar [02:46:22]:
Well, yeah.

Eldar [02:46:23]:
Thank you, babe.

Katherine [02:46:27]:
No, no final thoughts. No, I feel like what I said before kind of, you know, I get it. You know, I understand that, like, personal, you know, just from my personal experience.

Eldar [02:46:39]:
Yeah.

Katherine [02:46:41]:
And, you know, like, there's only what, like, you know, you can, you know, choose to, like, you know.

Eldar [02:46:47]:
Yeah.

Katherine [02:46:47]:
Change something or remove something from your life.

Eldar [02:46:50]:
Yeah.

Katherine [02:46:50]:
Or you can choose to stay, you know, it's just a matter of choice now.

Eldar [02:46:54]:
Yeah.

Katherine [02:46:54]:
So it's not about, like, you know, bashing yourself and saying, like, oh, well, you know, you know, if you want to improve something.

Eldar [02:47:07]:
Yeah. Yes.

Anatoliy [02:47:08]:
I mean, like, I don't feel like in that example where I was trying to, like, I don't know, like, when I was having a hard time, like, a.

Eldar [02:47:21]:
Like.

Anatoliy [02:47:21]:
Or, like, afraid to, like, bring an example.

Eldar [02:47:24]:
Right.

Anatoliy [02:47:24]:
It was more of, like, I didn't feel think, like, when. When bringing up this topic. Like, I was thinking about it. Like, I didn't think about it. I would say probably. Probably enough for myself and didn't come into the conversation with, like, particular examples set out that I wanted to, like, discuss. I was more like. It came to me more as, like, an overarching thing about just, like, like.

Eldar [02:47:54]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:47:54]:
In more general terms. Right. About, like, just my own actions and, like, other people's actions.

Eldar [02:48:04]:
Right.

Anatoliy [02:48:04]:
And seeing how, like, people are doing things that they think make them happy. But I guess, like, like, as an outside judge, you could see that, like, they don't, like, at times.

Eldar [02:48:16]:
Right.

Phillip [02:48:17]:
Yeah, but, like.

Eldar [02:48:18]:
But I.

Phillip [02:48:18]:
Again, the way that you just described that, you're. You. You're saying more general stuff, but for Eldar to push that and then say, why are you saying this is not, like, these aren't just everyday, regular topics. We're not just talking about add salt to cake and then it tastes better. We're talking about deep things, about purpose and why certain people do certain things. So it seems like you are looking at these things, but you're not seeing yourself in them or you don't want to see yourself in them. And then once you were honest with yourself, I was able to understand why you think about these things, but I.

Anatoliy [02:49:00]:
Don'T feel that, like, in the process, I was being dishonest. Like, that's my, like, confusion. Like, I had to think about a very particular thing. But I didn't come to into that conversation with these kinds of things that I was then not wanting to share. Like, I felt like, like, I feel like. I don't know, like. Do you not feel that I generally. Generally like.

Phillip [02:49:22]:
No.

Eldar [02:49:22]:
No.

Phillip [02:49:22]:
What I'm no.

Anatoliy [02:49:24]:
Like.

Eldar [02:49:25]:
No, I think that, uh, what's his name?

Phillip [02:49:30]:
I think he knew those examples already. Those ones that came up.

Anatoliy [02:49:35]:
I didn't feel like I was hiding him in the conversation.

Eldar [02:49:37]:
Yeah, no, no, I don't. I don't think so. But I think that.

Anatoliy [02:49:40]:
Yeah, like, like the reason why I.

Eldar [02:49:42]:
Pressed him in the first place is because he kept saying that we all have these things and I have those things that are those disconnects.

Phillip [02:49:49]:
And he wasn't giving a specific example.

Eldar [02:49:51]:
That's one. But my. My thing was my challenge is that. Sure, but they're not actually correct things, right? This is. And I brought the exam. Whichever example that you're gonna bring in here, if you actually zoomed in with your intellectual thought about it, you quickly find out where the disconnect is and why the disconnect is. Therefore you actually fucking know exactly why this is causing.

Phillip [02:50:16]:
No complaints.

Eldar [02:50:18]:
I agreed with that.

Anatoliy [02:50:18]:
But I disagree with the fact that I was like hiding something or like not willing to share it like that. I don't think that's my, like.

Phillip [02:50:26]:
But it was hard. What I'm saying is it's no, it's like you're no.

Anatoliy [02:50:30]:
Cuz I got put on the spot to think about a very specific example that I did not have one thought of before I went, like, I didn't go to this conversation with like, okay, damn. Like I experienced this particular thing and now I want to bring it up as a topic, but I'm not willing to share like what that thing was like to me. Wasn't like on that like, level.

Phillip [02:50:48]:
But I think it's. I think it's interesting that you, like this specific topic resonated with you and then you didn't think about specific examples of what was happening to you. You, you were putting it more into general terms and speaking more general. And it took a lot to get you to say a specific example. So I'm not saying you were lying.

Anatoliy [02:51:06]:
Well, well, no, no, you were saying. You're saying that this whole time I knew this example and I wasn't willing to share it.

Eldar [02:51:13]:
Right.

Phillip [02:51:13]:
I think deep down you knew it, but you didn't explore it in your head.

Eldar [02:51:18]:
So.

Phillip [02:51:18]:
Yeah, maybe you didn't actually know what you didn't put thought into it. But I'm saying there's this example thinking.

Eldar [02:51:24]:
About for a very long time.

Eldar [02:51:25]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:51:26]:
That's why it's time to get to, like, to bring an example, because I didn't come into conversation with one very specific example or, like, problem where, like, okay, this was going on, and I can't figure it out.

Eldar [02:51:41]:
Yeah, but do you not see that because of the fact that you said you carry a lot of these things in your life that actually are making you unhappy is the reason why you came up with the question in the first place?

Anatoliy [02:51:51]:
Okay.

Eldar [02:51:52]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:51:53]:
So there is a connection there.

Anatoliy [02:51:54]:
No, no.

Eldar [02:51:55]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:51:55]:
Like, there is a connection.

Eldar [02:51:57]:
Like, I don't know where you just, like, oh, I was just observing these people, and then I came up.

Phillip [02:52:00]:
That's what I'm saying. There's a deep emotional connection he has, but he's this.

Eldar [02:52:04]:
He's.

Phillip [02:52:05]:
He's underplaying the amount of personal connection that he has to this topic. It took a lot for him to say it. So what I'm saying is that in this topic.

Eldar [02:52:16]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:52:16]:
Any topic that I bring up, it has to do with myself and. And the way I view the world. 100%, of course. But it did not take a lot for me to say it. That is absolutely not how I felt about the situation. Like, I had to sit here and think about a particular example that was with this. I just don't feel that it took a lot for me to say it, or I wasn't willing to share it. Like, I didn't want to get into specifics.

Anatoliy [02:52:47]:
Like, I don't feel that that's nowhere near my character.

Phillip [02:52:52]:
Why did it take you so long to say it, though? Cause you just didn't know it.

Anatoliy [02:52:55]:
Yes.

Eldar [02:52:56]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:52:57]:
Like, I didn't comment, but then.

Phillip [02:52:59]:
But then that doesn't make sense because this topic is a very specific topic, and again, Eldar was pressing you on it, and then it made me think, yes, this. I let it just go because I'm like, oh, you think like this? It's a very deep topic. He's a deeper thinker. He's an intellectual guy. So I just said, like, oh, it's a topic. But to me, I think you're, like, not making the connection of how deep you have to this specific topic as an individual. And then, well, sure, but it doesn't.

Anatoliy [02:53:32]:
Mean that I wasn't willing to share something or that, like, it seemed like.

Phillip [02:53:37]:
It was difficult to share for you, and then you had, like, a burst of saying the truth, and it seemed like once I felt like you had a lot of anger towards the thing in basketball. I'm like, oh, shit, he is saying something that remembered something.

Anatoliy [02:53:50]:
That, like, pissed, right?

Phillip [02:53:51]:
Yeah, he was pissed. No, and I felt that, like, do.

Anatoliy [02:53:53]:
You feel that, like, I was holding this information sitting here? Sitting here?

Eldar [02:53:58]:
No. No.

Phillip [02:53:58]:
I didn't think it was in your head.

Eldar [02:54:00]:
I was puzzled as to why you were hesitant. For sure.

Eldar [02:54:02]:
Yes.

Phillip [02:54:02]:
That's what I'm saying.

Anatoliy [02:54:03]:
But you, I'm asking if you felt that I knew this exact example and I was sitting here now willing to.

Eldar [02:54:10]:
Not feel that way.

Eldar [02:54:11]:
Okay. That way.

Eldar [02:54:12]:
I didn't feel.

Eldar [02:54:12]:
No. Yeah, that.

Anatoliy [02:54:13]:
That's the, that's what I knew for.

Eldar [02:54:15]:
A fact that you had a lot of examples, but I was, I was puzzled as to why you wouldn't bring them out.

Eldar [02:54:20]:
I didn't know.

Anatoliy [02:54:21]:
It was hard for me to specifically. It was.

Eldar [02:54:24]:
I could have made. I could have named those examples myself.

Phillip [02:54:27]:
I don't buy that.

Eldar [02:54:27]:
Like, because I know, you know, but.

Anatoliy [02:54:29]:
But I'm saying is that when you asked me to name those examples.

Eldar [02:54:32]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:54:33]:
And for them to be relevant to this exact thing, it was difficult for me to name them. It wasn't where I was hiding them and not willing to share them.

Phillip [02:54:45]:
I find that really interesting, though.

Eldar [02:54:47]:
Yeah.

Phillip [02:54:48]:
Because if this, like I said, if this topic resonates with you, I feel like that's an interesting thing of why you wouldn't have those examples in your head. So I think there's.

Anatoliy [02:54:58]:
Why would that be interesting?

Phillip [02:55:00]:
When you think about a topic like this that's deep and profound. Like, are you not thinking about, like, yourself in this example? Like, I would be thinking about, like, all the things without me thinking. They would kind of naturally come up for me in my thought process.

Eldar [02:55:12]:
Yeah, yeah. But, uh.

Eldar [02:55:14]:
But if you're not active, actively trying to pursue that, then no.

Phillip [02:55:18]:
Hmm.

Eldar [02:55:19]:
Right.

Eldar [02:55:20]:
If he's saying that, yeah, sure. Like, I'm just observing that and whatever. And he looked at as whatever, like, yeah, everybody's suffering from this. Like, everybody has an issue with this. You know what I mean? He didn't really plug himself into it as to, like, okay, like, cool. Like, this is actually very dear to me.

Eldar [02:55:34]:
Hmm. Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:55:35]:
Like, I definitely feel that there's a lot for me to get from this topic, but I didn't stumble upon one particular, like, a thing. I'm like, damn, I just cannot crack this. So I have to come out with. With this, like, top topic. Just, I remember driving back from the gym, and I was just thinking about it, and they just came to me, like, how many things in general do people do that they're under the impression of that brings them happiness that actually doesn't. And that's what I think about it. Wait, it's in the same way as short term and long term happiness. This is a constant play.

Anatoliy [02:56:11]:
And I'm like, yeah, I definitely have these little time where there's certain decisions I make in the short term that bite me in the ass in the long term, or there's certain attachments and goals I have to the long term that bite me in the ass in the short term. Like, that's just like something that I can agree with, but I didn't have, like, a very particular example that made me feel this and ponder this sub object.

Eldar [02:56:37]:
Yeah.

Phillip [02:56:37]:
I think it's interesting how you came through a result of that as of not having a personal example. I just think that's an interesting thought process.

Eldar [02:56:43]:
Yeah.

Phillip [02:56:44]:
My brain just doesn't think that way. And it's hard for me to comprehend how he came to that conclusion of such a specific topic, a very deep, profound topic, and then not having a specific example of yourself. Like, that's the interesting part to me. I didn't think you were lying. I just think it's interesting how that comes about. Like, a topic like that comes about and then you have an attachment to that topic that you feel like you're passionate about or you wanted to talk about.

Anatoliy [02:57:11]:
Yeah, yeah. Like, I was definitely, like, I felt like through bringing up this topic, we could talk about certain. Sir. Certain things that could then make me think about something that, like, you had that prior.

Eldar [02:57:25]:
Prior before we started. What? You had this thought prior before, like, you just.

Anatoliy [02:57:31]:
No, no, I definitely thought through talking about this, see?

Phillip [02:57:34]:
But that's the first time you said that.

Eldar [02:57:36]:
See?

Phillip [02:57:36]:
See, like when he said that. Yeah, then that's correct. I would have had a totally different, my thought process of then tackling this topic. Yeah, because that makes sense to me because then I can say that's why.

Anatoliy [02:57:48]:
I kept pestering about and that's what.

Eldar [02:57:50]:
It'S easier to talk about.

Phillip [02:57:51]:
That makes sense.

Eldar [02:57:52]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:57:53]:
What made sense to me is what, what Eldar said, for example, when we were just talking just now.

Eldar [02:58:07]:
Because you weren't.

Eldar [02:58:08]:
Yeah. No.

Anatoliy [02:58:09]:
What you gave the answer about, like, oh, yeah. Like, if you really sit here and think about it, if you pay. And you pay attention to.

Eldar [02:58:16]:
Yes. Right.

Anatoliy [02:58:17]:
Do you actually not know what steps need to get done? That's my whole challenge.

Eldar [02:58:21]:
That's challenge.

Eldar [02:58:22]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:58:22]:
And I could not jump over.

Eldar [02:58:23]:
That's right. There's nothing that you cannot actually deduce here as to what's happening and why it's happening to you. My question is, my problem is, why do you keep choosing it? You understand there's an insanity part here.

Eldar [02:58:38]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:58:38]:
You know what I'm saying?

Phillip [02:58:41]:
As we say more things, I understand more and more and more. Like, well, it's almost like we're saying it. I'm getting something. We're coming back and then we're going. We're chipping away. We're going back into it. And now as we're going into it, we're coming back, we're going back in. Now I'm understanding, okay, the example thing.

Phillip [02:58:58]:
Now I'm understanding the attachment. Now I'm understanding how he's thinking about the example.

Anatoliy [02:59:02]:
It's like, that's why then you, then.

Eldar [02:59:04]:
The challenges come in. Because when he says the example, you can actually see in here that he might not even fucking want to be this guy.

Phillip [02:59:11]:
Right.

Eldar [02:59:12]:
You know what I'm saying? If you did, then do something about it.

Phillip [02:59:15]:
Right.

Eldar [02:59:15]:
And what are you doing about it, right. Versus. Versus going versus going and putting yourself into a gauntlet. Right. And getting something bad out of every single time you go and participate there.

Eldar [02:59:26]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:59:26]:
That is crazy.

Phillip [02:59:28]:
Like why? Ok. Why?

Eldar [02:59:29]:
Why? It's insanity where you can keep hitting the same wall expecting a different result.

Eldar [02:59:35]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:59:36]:
Basketball's dead.

Eldar [02:59:37]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:59:38]:
I mean, like I said, I'm not open to. Not to that.

Eldar [02:59:40]:
Like in the form that you described it as, unless you want to take your words back. That's also possible.

Eldar [02:59:46]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:59:47]:
You said, yo, every time I go play basketball.

Phillip [02:59:49]:
No, that was the truest thing that happened today.

Eldar [02:59:51]:
You don't let them off the hook here.

Phillip [02:59:53]:
That was the truth.

Anatoliy [02:59:56]:
I have frustration. There's definitely parts that I enjoy it. I enjoy when we're low and when the team in general is doing well, stuff like that.

Eldar [03:00:04]:
Every time.

Phillip [03:00:07]:
That statement today that was done, the realest emotion that he had, it was very wrong.

Anatoliy [03:00:12]:
And I'm not running away from that when we play in the league.

Eldar [03:00:14]:
Yeah. Right. Games. Yeah.

Anatoliy [03:00:16]:
I definitely feel frustrated every time.

Eldar [03:00:19]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [03:00:19]:
Because I cannot, I can't get over the fact that I'm not.

Eldar [03:00:24]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [03:00:24]:
Who I was before I was playing. And I'm not willing to accept anything less than that.

Eldar [03:00:30]:
Why you do it?

Eldar [03:00:32]:
Why.

Eldar [03:00:33]:
Why you keep subjecting yourself to the suffering? Because you said that the people out there are just doing it right. Try to solve the general question. You said that people just generally don't know how. How to connect it. What's causing them suffering what's not. You're doing it. Knowingly doing it.

Eldar [03:00:50]:
Yeah.

Phillip [03:00:50]:
You're able to answer your own question.

Eldar [03:00:52]:
Here if you try.

Phillip [03:00:54]:
So we found the example.

Anatoliy [03:00:55]:
Why am I know it? Knowingly going to play basketball.

Phillip [03:00:58]:
Yes, that's what we're asking.

Anatoliy [03:00:59]:
On Wednesdays, for example, or Mondays.

Eldar [03:01:01]:
Right.

Anatoliy [03:01:01]:
Knowing that's gonna frustrate me each time. Yeah, well, like, now I'm putting in some actual, like, change and, like, improving that.

Eldar [03:01:12]:
But you still beat yourself up.

Anatoliy [03:01:13]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But probably prior to that, my overarching belief was that you. Yeah, probably just like. Yeah, probably just like, believing I could do nothing and just believing could potentially, like, time could just potentially because you're.

Eldar [03:01:29]:
Attached to something, change that.

Eldar [03:01:31]:
Yes.

Anatoliy [03:01:31]:
Right now I'm actually doing things that are contributed towards, I think, like, helping that and, like, improving in that sense.

Eldar [03:01:38]:
Right.

Eldar [03:01:39]:
Just not as fast as you'd like.

Eldar [03:01:40]:
Huh.

Eldar [03:01:40]:
Just not as fast as you would like it, obviously, because you still, you still getting the same results.

Eldar [03:01:46]:
Yeah.

Eldar [03:01:46]:
Are you. If you're still beating yourself up over it.

Eldar [03:01:49]:
Yeah.

Eldar [03:01:50]:
You still getting the same stuff?

Eldar [03:01:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [03:01:52]:
This thing that you're engaging in is not good for you.

Anatoliy [03:01:55]:
Yeah, yeah. My number there, there's definitely still parts of it that I enjoy. No, no, but there is, like, not yet.

Eldar [03:02:08]:
Right.

Eldar [03:02:09]:
Like, yeah, yeah, but, like, saying, yeah, but, yeah, but I can't because of what you said in the beginning, the overarching thing. You put yourself under an umbrella, which you said. Like I said you could take your words back.

Anatoliy [03:02:19]:
Yeah, no, I'm not taking my words back.

Eldar [03:02:21]:
You said, yo, every time. Yes, I'm dissatisfied. I'm unhappy. Yeah, but then you said, but there's a sliver. So what, are you going for the cheese?

Anatoliy [03:02:33]:
Yeah, yeah, no, it's definitely weird because there are parts that I enjoy and.

Eldar [03:02:36]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anatoliy [03:02:37]:
So just, like, not unhappy about all of it. I'm definitely happy. I mean, I definitely still do it because I still obviously get some enjoyment out of it.

Eldar [03:02:46]:
Right.

Anatoliy [03:02:47]:
But, yeah, I definitely don't feel how I want to feel.

Eldar [03:02:51]:
Like I said, it's either bad example or does this.

Eldar [03:02:54]:
This.

Eldar [03:02:54]:
This equation doesn't work, you know, wait, if you still. If you're saying that I'm still getting something out of it. If you're getting something out of it, it means still makes you happy.

Phillip [03:03:05]:
But to me, the only thing that he would be getting out of it is if he has glimmers of hope of that old guy where maybe he makes a shot. Right. All that sliver is still attached to the old guy. So I don't think that's true.

Anatoliy [03:03:16]:
Well, like that's, that's, that's why I.

Phillip [03:03:18]:
Think the, that's why I think when he said he's angry, that's the example to go with. The other thing is falling back on like getting him out of that, like to follow through.

Eldar [03:03:28]:
Is that true? Can you be happy with just getting rebounds?

Phillip [03:03:30]:
No, that's what we asked. Can you have a different. So that's why I said that's why I thought it was dead.

Anatoliy [03:03:34]:
No, because it's not what I enjoy.

Eldar [03:03:36]:
So there you go.

Eldar [03:03:36]:
So, yeah, so he's correct. And in his assessment about the fact that you just have glimpses of hope when you do make a shot or two.

Eldar [03:03:42]:
So that's.

Phillip [03:03:43]:
It's actually, it's actually makes it harder.

Eldar [03:03:45]:
Oh, it makes it worse.

Phillip [03:03:46]:
Yeah, cuz that's what I thought.

Eldar [03:03:49]:
Yeah, because it's perpetuating a non action, you understand?

Eldar [03:03:52]:
Yeah.

Eldar [03:03:53]:
So the glimpses of hope, like you said, I'm just going over there thinking that time or something would just change and miraculously gonna become this guy.

Phillip [03:03:59]:
But that's what I was saying. That's what I'm saying. That checkbox of like the intellectual thing, that's like a form of that. Because like even though you are taking action, you may be making a shot in your head. You're allowing that shot and you're the attachment. So like you're almost allowing like intellect to overtake action because you're allowing the idea of the old one to say, I'm not gonna take action on the new one. And then you're sitting there doing nothing.

Eldar [03:04:23]:
That's right.

Phillip [03:04:23]:
To be the new guy that you want. So what I'm saying is you, you don't care about being that old guy anymore.

Eldar [03:04:29]:
That's your challenge to him.

Phillip [03:04:30]:
That's my challenge is if you care that much, then only time will tell. But the truest thing that you said was that you're angry about the situation. And I believe that you are angry and you aren't happy when you're playing basketball. That's what I believe. What happens as a result of it? I don't know.

Eldar [03:04:49]:
Well, some stuff makes him happy in the game. Give him something.

Phillip [03:04:53]:
I can't.

Eldar [03:04:54]:
You can't?

Phillip [03:04:55]:
Not in basketball. But I agree that if we're talking about energy, if we're talking about energy so he can do more things like just basketball.

Anatoliy [03:05:06]:
It's specifically those like official like.

Phillip [03:05:10]:
But again, when you brought in other examples, like to be able to do stuff around the house, to have more energy at work, to do more things, to be around, you know, family, friends.

Anatoliy [03:05:17]:
That'S all in that same.

Phillip [03:05:18]:
Yes. Holistically, when all those are put together, then I think there's more there.

Eldar [03:05:22]:
On the house, you also beat yourself up. You say, oh, I'm a fat piece of shit, and I can't do shit at times.

Eldar [03:05:27]:
Yeah. Oh, wow.

Phillip [03:05:29]:
But that makes more sense when it's attached to more things.

Eldar [03:05:32]:
Yeah.

Phillip [03:05:32]:
Then it's not just basketball or the house. It becomes about energy overall, his own.

Eldar [03:05:37]:
Image and how he feels about himself.

Phillip [03:05:38]:
But to me, yeah. It's about being youthful and energetic. That can be a feeling, I think, that will drive you more than the idea of this old guy that he used to.

Anatoliy [03:05:47]:
I definitely feel good when I have those days where I'm able to properly take care of those things that I want to take care of, stuff like that. I definitely feel like a different, like, level, personally.

Eldar [03:06:00]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [03:06:01]:
Like, in all aspects of.

Eldar [03:06:03]:
Yeah, okay.

Anatoliy [03:06:05]:
But then I also feel the opposite, like, level when I can't.

Eldar [03:06:09]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [03:06:11]:
I definitely feel like, you know, like, when I have to do, like. Like a. Like. Like a. Like a yard maintenance stuff and stuff like that.

Eldar [03:06:19]:
Right.

Anatoliy [03:06:19]:
I definitely identify, like, wow, okay. Like, for me to really take care of this to the level that I want to, there is a certain shape that I need to be in.

Eldar [03:06:27]:
Yeah. Right, yeah.

Anatoliy [03:06:30]:
And, like, not being in that shape makes that process more tolling. Not as enjoy, like, not. Not as, like, joy filled.

Eldar [03:06:37]:
Right.

Anatoliy [03:06:38]:
And becomes more like a chore when you get in.

Eldar [03:06:42]:
Yeah, yeah. The thing is, if you. Again, if you take this chore stuff, you know, even and dissect it, open this up, you'll quickly find out that your chores are the chores, and you can't really keep up with them. It's not because you're out of shape. It's because you're negligent throughout the week, for example, throughout the month.

Eldar [03:07:02]:
Yeah.

Eldar [03:07:02]:
So if I told you, hey, totally, you have enough energy and you're strong enough to do 20 minutes of cleanup every single day, but every single day you're gonna tell me you don't have that in you?

Eldar [03:07:13]:
I do have that.

Eldar [03:07:14]:
Exactly.

Eldar [03:07:15]:
Right.

Eldar [03:07:15]:
But you don't do it. And we have to ask again why. Right. 20 minutes is not gonna take away from you or is gonna require you to. To be this, you know, stamina guy. What you're doing is that you neglecting the whole thing throughout the whole week or a month, and then you have to catch up. And when you need to catch up, when you have. Have a little bit of energy.

Eldar [03:07:33]:
You work for 2 hours, 3 hours, break a sweat. You're like, holy shit, I'm a piece of shit. You beat yourself up. It's a perpetual cycle, because you're not being good to yourself throughout the week.

Phillip [03:07:43]:
It may not be. Yeah, it may not be allowing himself to have small victories. So, like, he associates. Yeah, so he associates the. Maybe the success of, like, the, like, being, like, maybe. Maybe it's. He feels he needs to be able to do it for two, 3 hours. He can't associate being successful or being this kind of youthful guy or energetic guy with just 20 minutes spurts or maybe just making one or two baskets versus making ten or twelve, like, so he's not allowing himself to do the small ones in order to be the big one.

Phillip [03:08:13]:
Like the little steps. You know what I'm saying? So if you're not allowing yourself to win the little steps, which is making one shot, doing it for 20 minutes, how are you going to do the two, 3 hours? So I think he's setting unrealistic expectations for himself, and that is one of the big reasons why he's not being able to do these follow through on hiding behind that statement and hiding behind the general public.

Eldar [03:08:36]:
Correct.

Phillip [03:08:36]:
Versus going to himself.

Eldar [03:08:38]:
Correct.

Eldar [03:08:38]:
Yeah.

Phillip [03:08:39]:
Yeah. Gigs up gig is definitely up, so, yeah, we could do it. We definitely got to the bottom of a lot of it.