Eldar [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode, I don't think.
Anatoliy [00:00:01]:
Anyone can sit still with the genuine realization of wrongdoing like that. That's the worst feeling any of us can have.
Phillip [00:00:07]:
The line that's being created now is we're going to basically make it impossible.
Phillip [00:00:12]:
For you to thrive. Like, if you're young and you're impressionable.
Phillip [00:00:14]:
Which most people are, we're going to.
Phillip [00:00:16]:
Make you have to look a certain way.
Phillip [00:00:17]:
If you're not able to think for yourself, if you don't have a strong foundation of parents or leadership or friends around you, your life. The best it's going to be is. Is when you're four or five years old.
Eldar [00:00:27]:
Ignorance, stupidity is the fucking cause of mental illness.
Phillip [00:00:31]:
Oh, hey, how you doing? Like, oh, I'm doing really great.
Phillip [00:00:34]:
Like, no, dude, like, you're fucking done, bro.
Phillip [00:00:36]:
Yeah, you shouldn't be out of the house.
Mike [00:00:38]:
Yes.
Phillip [00:00:38]:
Lock yourself inside. Call fucking eldar right now. One ticket to Pizza town, please.
Eldar [00:00:53]:
So. So our topic is mental illness, a result of an unexamined, prolonged flow state. So I think before we continue, maybe we can talk about the things that we're talking about here. Some of the terms.
Mike [00:01:07]:
Right.
Eldar [00:01:09]:
Let's start with mental illness. Mental disorder is usually a wide range of conditions that affect mood, thinking, and behavior. Like depression can be a mental health disorder characterized by persistently depressed mood or loss of interest and activities causing significant impairment in daily life. Anxiety disorder, a mental health disorder characterized by feelings of worry, anxiety, or fear that are strong enough to interfere with one's daily activities. Bipolar disorder, a disorder associated with the episodes of mood swings ranging from depressive lows to manic highs.
Mike [00:01:41]:
Up and down. Right?
Eldar [00:01:42]:
I mean, obviously there's more attention deficit disorder, right? A chronic condition including attention difficulty, hyperactivity, and impulsiveness. And I guess one more obsessive compulsive disorder. So, OCD, I guess. This is the one that we had on the board. Excessive thoughts, obsessions that lead to repetitive behaviors. Compulsions. You guys have any questions for that? For those types of definitions?
Mike [00:02:04]:
Pretty much.
Eldar [00:02:04]:
Something that's an ongoing thing, right? Whichever disorder we're gonna discuss, it's like an ongoing, repetitive stuff that is bothering you pretty much.
Mike [00:02:12]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:13]:
Causing you some type of pain, strain, stress and whatever.
Mike [00:02:18]:
Yeah. Right.
Eldar [00:02:19]:
So going back to our question now is, right. Or we try to find out is mental illness.
Mike [00:02:25]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:26]:
Those types of mental illnesses.
Mike [00:02:27]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:27]:
Is a result of unexamined, prolonged flow states.
Mike [00:02:33]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:34]:
So by unexamined means, guess we're talking about the stuff that we're not aware of.
Mike [00:02:41]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:42]:
Kind of like things that we do, but we don't really examine it. So we're not really even aware of it. That we do it.
Mike [00:02:47]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:48]:
And then prolonged.
Mike [00:02:49]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:49]:
For long periods of time, this has to continue.
Mike [00:02:52]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:52]:
And maybe Philip then can talk about what is it that we mean by flow state.
Mike [00:02:57]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:58]:
Unexamined, prolonged flow state. Because I know you had a little problem with that definition. Or using. Using.
Mike [00:03:05]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:03:05]:
If you're in a flow state right now, you could just choose not to talk.
Phillip [00:03:08]:
So flow state would be kind of.
Phillip [00:03:11]:
Like your autopilot routine, like what you're doing, kind of without thinking. Like your habits, your experiences, everything just kind of going in.
Mike [00:03:22]:
You know, you're.
Phillip [00:03:23]:
Going food shopping, you're going to work, you go drive your car. Just how you are.
Mike [00:03:30]:
I'm kind of your day to day.
Phillip [00:03:32]:
That's my understanding of what that would be like.
Eldar [00:03:35]:
Natural.
Mike [00:03:35]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:03:35]:
Like, you're just natural.
Mike [00:03:37]:
Is flow state, like, is.
Mike [00:03:39]:
It has to be an action, right? It can't be like a thought or a speech or. It has to be an action, right?
Mike [00:03:45]:
Mmm.
Phillip [00:03:46]:
For what we're talking about to, like, see it play out. I think we talked about.
Mike [00:03:50]:
You're not thinking about what you're about to get into a flow state. You're just acting already.
Phillip [00:03:56]:
So didn't we say. Didn't we say that it was, like, how you think would affect. Would affect those things? So, essentially, like, these things are probably rooted in your thought, but you're seeing them. Like, if you're the observer, like, if I'm watching you, like, I'm watching them play out in actions. But, like, unless I'm having a conversation with you, and I understand how you talk and how you think, I wouldn't be able to identify basically your, your flow state.
Mike [00:04:23]:
But the person who's experiencing the flow state, he's not, like, thinking, okay, I'm about to go, no, no, no, do this.
Mike [00:04:30]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:04:30]:
It's not a consciousness.
Mike [00:04:31]:
Not do this. He just doing it.
Phillip [00:04:33]:
It's subconscious action.
Anatoliy [00:04:36]:
But I think that the flow states are like, like, there. There's levels of them, right? Like, there's, for example, like, a very specific flow state. It's like, like, in a very specific topic of things. And then there's, like, I think a bigger flow state that's, like, outside of that flow state. So, like, it's like a, like a layered.
Eldar [00:04:56]:
I give an example.
Mike [00:04:58]:
Okay.
Anatoliy [00:04:58]:
Like, someone has this, like, let's say, obsession with, like, money and wealth.
Mike [00:05:06]:
Okay. Right.
Anatoliy [00:05:07]:
And they kind of, like, dedicate a lot of time towards, like, researching a lot of things and trying to do certain things and, like, trying. Trying to figure out ways to get, like, rich, you know? Right. Some observers from the outside might be like, yo, like, he lost it a little bit, right?
Mike [00:05:21]:
Mm hmm.
Anatoliy [00:05:22]:
I think by saying that, it's kind of, like, almost like describing, like, that he's in this flow state of this pursuit of wealth.
Mike [00:05:30]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:05:30]:
That's just like a.
Eldar [00:05:31]:
He lost his money to mon. He's lost his mind.
Anatoliy [00:05:34]:
Like, he's in this flow, like, okay. And, yeah, we're like, when someone's really convinced of something, they're naturally going to go into that, like, I guess what could be a big blanket flow state.
Mike [00:05:44]:
Okay. Right.
Anatoliy [00:05:45]:
And then, like, you could see people, like. Like, you. You might characterize them like, yo, they lost her mind a little bit. Whether they're, like, following something or, like, they have this really big attachment to something.
Mike [00:05:54]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:05:54]:
And, like, you might just let them be because they got it kind of, like, go through it.
Mike [00:05:58]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:05:58]:
Because there's no chance of, like, interrupting them.
Mike [00:06:01]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:06:01]:
Like, they're in this big blanket flow state.
Mike [00:06:04]:
Okay. Okay.
Anatoliy [00:06:05]:
And then within that, they could have, like, they could have their own moments where they actually are conscious and thinking about things which they could be right or wrong about. And then they could have another flow state within those specific areas on a more smaller, like a level.
Mike [00:06:21]:
Like what?
Anatoliy [00:06:22]:
Like, they could be, like, I don't know. Let's say they're in, like, a research mode.
Mike [00:06:26]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:06:27]:
They could go into this flow state for, like, 8 hours straight and just kind of, like, lose their mind and research.
Mike [00:06:33]:
Right. And that's.
Anatoliy [00:06:35]:
And that's kind of what, like, could be a flow state for them, but they're also in this big blanket flow state of just like, this, like, a.
Mike [00:06:42]:
Size thing is what you're saying.
Mike [00:06:44]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:06:44]:
Like, there's different.
Mike [00:06:46]:
I'm not. I don't know how that's different. Besides sizing, like, a big flow state, overarching like, a huge goal versus, like, a flow state or a small goal that's part of a bigger goal.
Mike [00:06:56]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:06:57]:
But I'm not sure if they're. How they're different, really.
Anatoliy [00:06:59]:
They're different in the sense of, like, one is like a, like, on top, it's like the larger one. Like, that's the umbrella.
Mike [00:07:06]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:07:07]:
Like, they, they have a conviction about something, and they kind of lost their mind, if we want to call it that, to that thing. And then, like, within that thing, there are very specific things that they're doing that are also, like. Like, I guess just smaller flow states that they're in, okay on different things, and sometimes they can peek their head out or in okay.
Phillip [00:07:28]:
To me, I would say.
Eldar [00:07:29]:
I would say it's all the flow state.
Phillip [00:07:31]:
So, yeah, I would say what you're.
Phillip [00:07:34]:
Describing, I think you're just, like, breaking.
Mike [00:07:36]:
Down a flow state, like, further.
Phillip [00:07:39]:
But I think for the definition of a flow state, like, it's just. It's everything that you do. It's like, I look at it as, like, all my understanding would be all encompassing of everything that you do that's kind of on autopilot, like, without you putting, like, conscious thought and effort into it. It's just kind of how you act and what you're doing on a day to day basis.
Anatoliy [00:07:58]:
Yes, but what? Within that, there are moments of consciousness where you start to get large attachments to things, or, like, develop, like. Like, particular goals or, like, desires, where you kind of peek out of your automatic stuff and then you go back in it once you've kind of, like, sorry. Accepted them.
Mike [00:08:20]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:08:20]:
As, like, this is what I'm gonna do. And then you kind of can get into this, like, particular routine, but, like, you still have to, like, peak out.
Mike [00:08:28]:
Of it once you have a new.
Anatoliy [00:08:29]:
Desire or a new goal or, like, a new attachment to. To something.
Mike [00:08:35]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:08:35]:
So I would just say every time you take a break, you're going into.
Phillip [00:08:37]:
A new flow state.
Anatoliy [00:08:38]:
Well, like, if you want to continue creating one.
Mike [00:08:42]:
Yeah, but I'm saying is that, like.
Anatoliy [00:08:43]:
People still have moments of, like, like, high, higher levels of consciousness, and, like.
Mike [00:08:52]:
So one day you want to be rich, and then another day you want.
Eldar [00:08:54]:
To be a philosopher.
Mike [00:08:56]:
Is that what you saying? Come out of it?
Anatoliy [00:08:57]:
No, no, I'm not saying they come.
Phillip [00:09:00]:
Out of the flow state, but, like, no, no.
Eldar [00:09:02]:
In general speaking, like, if somebody. Correct me if I'm wrong. If somebody's focusing on, like you said, research on how to do a specific thing to get more money, that's a small one, but as soon as they come out of stopping the research, they're still in their overarching false state. Because all they do is talk about money. All they think about is money. Right?
Anatoliy [00:09:23]:
Like, the only reason flow states exist is because they're. They're rooted in, like, a. Almost like, what's the person feels like a mathematical equation. Like, for example, their whole conclusion is that, for example, money equals happiness. This is what they're, like, is on their forehead bulletin board.
Mike [00:09:47]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:09:48]:
And then, because they firmly believe that, like, that's just there, and it does not get examined.
Mike [00:09:54]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:09:55]:
And this is how it starts.
Mike [00:09:56]:
Oh, yeah, that.
Anatoliy [00:09:58]:
That's how it starts. You believe that money equals happiness. That's it.
Mike [00:10:03]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:10:04]:
That's like the big thing on the board. And then within that, you do a bunch of things that are based all off of that. So, like, everything is tied back to us now. Now it's like, imagine like you drew a circle on the board right now in the middle of the board, and then you just made like 100,000 lines extending from that of all the different things that you do. And that's how a flow state is created.
Eldar [00:10:27]:
That's very interesting because. Yeah, because, yeah, I think we can segment and go right into what he talked about, his attachment.
Mike [00:10:34]:
Right.
Eldar [00:10:34]:
To an unexamined. Right conclusion that you made or theory.
Anatoliy [00:10:40]:
Well, well, no. To the person, they feel that they've made an examination. No, they have come out with a mathematical, like what? Like it has to absolutely make sense to them.
Eldar [00:10:51]:
For sure.
Anatoliy [00:10:52]:
The money equals happiness. That firmly makes sense.
Eldar [00:10:55]:
Yeah, sure. I mean, and if they got it wrong.
Mike [00:10:58]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:10:58]:
If that's the belief system and it's unexamined properly, where it's not rooted in truth, and they follow.
Mike [00:11:04]:
Right.
Eldar [00:11:05]:
With prolonged states of flows, flow states within that unexamined statement or belief system that they have.
Mike [00:11:13]:
Right.
Eldar [00:11:13]:
Sooner or later, what are some things.
Mike [00:11:15]:
That can come out of it, right.
Eldar [00:11:17]:
For example, attachment. If you holding yourself attached to attachment. I see.
Mike [00:11:22]:
Anger. Right?
Mike [00:11:24]:
Yeah, but, yeah, I agree. But I think also attachment, maybe it's. It's also mental illness.
Eldar [00:11:32]:
Well, no, I think that. I think that's what exactly is happening. Because it's unexamined properly.
Mike [00:11:38]:
You attach yourself to that, you know what I mean? No, yeah, because it's unexamined.
Eldar [00:11:46]:
Because it was. One of the reasons why you attach.
Mike [00:11:47]:
Yourself is because it's unexamined as well.
Mike [00:11:50]:
So then it's not possible to get attached to something when you examine it or that doesn't work.
Eldar [00:11:55]:
Well, I'm trying to think that. Can you get attached to the statement of money doesn't bring happiness?
Mike [00:12:00]:
No, I don't think so. Maybe somebody else.
Mike [00:12:05]:
Like, reverse it. Right? Yeah.
Eldar [00:12:07]:
Because we know that this, this is, this is true statement.
Mike [00:12:10]:
Right.
Eldar [00:12:11]:
Money does not bring happiness. Is this correct? Does everybody agree with that?
Mike [00:12:14]:
Right.
Eldar [00:12:15]:
There's no. Nothing. Yeah. Intrinsically.
Mike [00:12:21]:
Right.
Eldar [00:12:22]:
The val. There's nothing in money that will make you happy. Nothing inside the car. A thing can make you happy. There's nothing in them.
Mike [00:12:32]:
Right.
Phillip [00:12:33]:
Yeah, I think it can make your life. I think when you.
Eldar [00:12:38]:
I think when you mic on, he's.
Anatoliy [00:12:39]:
In a full state.
Phillip [00:12:40]:
I think when you talk about money.
Phillip [00:12:42]:
As, like, a resource, it can definitely make your life easier.
Phillip [00:12:44]:
But no, like, the actual idea of money cannot make you happy.
Eldar [00:12:48]:
Okay, well, not the idea of money.
Phillip [00:12:50]:
Well, money is an idea.
Mike [00:12:51]:
Right?
Phillip [00:12:51]:
Like, we created it.
Eldar [00:12:52]:
No, but the physical money you're talking about.
Mike [00:12:54]:
Oh, no.
Phillip [00:12:54]:
So I'm saying, like, we, as humans, created the idea of money. And, like, it's like, now it's a physical thing.
Mike [00:12:59]:
Right.
Phillip [00:12:59]:
Like, there was the barter system, now.
Phillip [00:13:01]:
It'S like an actual dollar.
Phillip [00:13:02]:
It's like that thing cannot make you happy.
Mike [00:13:04]:
Correct.
Eldar [00:13:05]:
This is what we're saying. Intrinsically, there's nothing.
Phillip [00:13:07]:
Physically, there's no.
Phillip [00:13:08]:
There's no happiness coming from.
Mike [00:13:10]:
Correct.
Mike [00:13:10]:
No.
Eldar [00:13:10]:
Yes, but I agree that money can make certain things in life easier. Yes, that could.
Mike [00:13:15]:
That's.
Mike [00:13:16]:
But happiness.
Mike [00:13:17]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:13:17]:
I don't think there is an actual attachment.
Phillip [00:13:18]:
I agree.
Eldar [00:13:19]:
So when that person, like Toli said, makes the overarching umbrella goal.
Mike [00:13:23]:
Right.
Eldar [00:13:24]:
Or belief system, that money equals happiness, I think that this is when you start to create an unhealthy things to.
Mike [00:13:34]:
But that's correct. Attachment. Is it money or is it to the happiness? Because I think maybe when. I mean, the person has to be.
Mike [00:13:43]:
Money because the money will bring.
Eldar [00:13:45]:
The money equals happiness.
Mike [00:13:46]:
Right.
Eldar [00:13:46]:
So you have.
Mike [00:13:47]:
Money will bring happiness, but ultimately you want the happiness because the money is not.
Eldar [00:13:52]:
No, but they're not focused.
Phillip [00:13:53]:
They're not focused on the happiness.
Phillip [00:13:54]:
That person is definitely focused on the money.
Mike [00:13:56]:
Yeah, but that's because they believe that money is ultimately gonna get them what they want.
Mike [00:14:00]:
Right?
Eldar [00:14:00]:
No, they believe that happiness equals money.
Mike [00:14:04]:
You understand? Yes.
Mike [00:14:07]:
They're saying money equals happiness. Yes, but happiness equals money is correct.
Mike [00:14:12]:
Yeah, but they're not focused on this person is definitely.
Eldar [00:14:17]:
Money is number one. Happiness is a result of a lot of money.
Phillip [00:14:22]:
If this person was focused on happiness, then they would.
Eldar [00:14:26]:
That's why my question is, can you get attached to the reverse statement of that?
Phillip [00:14:32]:
I don't. I don't think you would.
Phillip [00:14:33]:
If you truly believe that happiness is the thing and you create the happiness.
Mike [00:14:37]:
Yeah. That's.
Phillip [00:14:38]:
It has nothing to do with any outside factors.
Phillip [00:14:41]:
Money being the example.
Phillip [00:14:43]:
I don't think that you can get attached to that example.
Eldar [00:14:46]:
Therefore, you cannot get a mental illness from that.
Mike [00:14:49]:
From.
Phillip [00:14:49]:
From that belief system.
Mike [00:14:50]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:14:50]:
From prolonging your actions around that whole thing.
Mike [00:14:53]:
I don't.
Phillip [00:14:53]:
I don't think so.
Anatoliy [00:14:54]:
Meaning, it's. I don't know if the word is unfortunate or just like it is what it is, but like, having poor examination skills leads to making poor conclusions, which leads to extremely long durations of actions. Bad flow states for long durations of time because, like, getting out of them is also hard because you're poor at examining. So you're, like, to gather them is really hard because, like, you're only in them because you're an idiot.
Katherine [00:15:30]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:15:33]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:15:33]:
I was thinking that people are using money to get happy people. Are you saying it's not that people.
Phillip [00:15:41]:
Are using money to get. I don't.
Mike [00:15:43]:
I don't think that money will make them happy.
Phillip [00:15:45]:
I.
Mike [00:15:46]:
Isn't the happiness end goal?
Phillip [00:15:47]:
I don't. I don't think that person's thinking about happiness, though. Think about most people that think about money.
Mike [00:15:51]:
No, no, but that statement itself.
Eldar [00:15:54]:
What?
Phillip [00:15:55]:
Say it again.
Mike [00:15:56]:
The statement itself, which is you're going, money can buy. Can buy. The statement is money can buy you happiness, but then somebody has to believe that money can buy you happiness.
Mike [00:16:07]:
Right?
Phillip [00:16:07]:
So, like, I think what I. I think that person who's thinking about, like, this is a phrase, right? So we're saying, like, money is happiness.
Phillip [00:16:15]:
I think that person that's thinking about money. I don't think money is happiness is even a phrase.
Phillip [00:16:20]:
I think their thing is like, like.
Phillip [00:16:22]:
Money is gonna give me, like, to me, like, I associate this person with, like, status.
Phillip [00:16:27]:
Like, they want, like the girls, they want, like, the car, like, they want all the things. They get attached to the things. And I think the. Where the mental illness comes in is they lose the association to happiness originally. You're probably right. They probably associate money with getting them all the things that they want. Maybe happiness is that.
Anatoliy [00:16:45]:
I think people still, no matter who, everybody still wants happiness. Just their understanding of what will provide it or get it is different.
Phillip [00:16:54]:
But that's what we're talking about. We're talking about the person who doesn't understand. They don't have good, like, research skills. They don't have good analysis skills on themselves. So, like, yeah, maybe everybody inherently wants happiness or they want love. We know that, though. But this person is obviously not doing it because they're just associating money with something.
Mike [00:17:12]:
I think their beliefs they want is right.
Phillip [00:17:15]:
That's why. That's why they have mental illness.
Anatoliy [00:17:17]:
No, but they still want. They're still there for them.
Mike [00:17:20]:
Still.
Anatoliy [00:17:20]:
Money equals happiness, and happiness equally equals money. They're under firm belief that that money is going to be the happiness. The same happiness that you are looking for.
Mike [00:17:31]:
I think. I think all is the happiness.
Mike [00:17:33]:
Yeah, yeah.
Mike [00:17:34]:
Money is a, like, in their understanding.
Phillip [00:17:35]:
No, I'm saying that I'm. See, I don't think so either. See, I'm saying in the beginning, that seed of thought, maybe in the beginning they're like, yes, money's gonna bring me happiness, but all of a sudden, if you're gonna, you lose track. And then it just becomes about money. And it becomes just about getting money.
Phillip [00:17:52]:
And they don't even know what they're doing anymore. Like why they're getting more cars, why.
Phillip [00:17:55]:
Are they getting more houses? Like why they're just getting more girls. Like, what are they doing? So I'm saying, this is the mental illness part of it, is they.
Eldar [00:18:04]:
This is a delusional.
Phillip [00:18:05]:
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Eldar [00:18:06]:
That is a delusion is exactly what he's saying. So what that person is actually under the impression of saying that they want happiness. It's not happy to just talk things. It's maybe power.
Phillip [00:18:16]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:18:17]:
Control and all this other stuff that they've learned to think that that's happiness. That's what is gonna bring them to be happy. Yeah, but they have no idea.
Anatoliy [00:18:27]:
Yeah, yes, yeah, but it's all rooted from still wanting happiness and being under the illusion that that will bring it to them.
Mike [00:18:35]:
It's an illusion though, because the definition.
Eldar [00:18:38]:
Because their definition is completely off.
Mike [00:18:41]:
But then, but then. Yeah, I agree what you're saying, but it sounds like the problem, the mental condition here is that people thinking that people.
Mike [00:18:48]:
I.
Mike [00:18:49]:
My interpretation is that people want happiness.
Eldar [00:18:51]:
They don't know what it is, but.
Mike [00:18:54]:
Because they don't know what it is, they think that money is gonna bring that to them. So money is the vehicle that they choose to get to happy.
Eldar [00:19:00]:
They are under impression that they get what power things and stuff like that equals to happiness. But it's not.
Mike [00:19:06]:
No, I know it's not.
Eldar [00:19:07]:
It might give them power over saying is I give them control over others.
Mike [00:19:11]:
Right.
Eldar [00:19:11]:
And all this other stuff they might give them. But not happiness.
Mike [00:19:14]:
No, it's not.
Eldar [00:19:15]:
But they associate.
Mike [00:19:16]:
That is where the.
Eldar [00:19:17]:
As they think that that's where the.
Mike [00:19:19]:
Sickness is, I think is believing that something that does not able to bring you that which you want, which is happiness, trying to find it in there, that's. That's where you. And that's where you develop the sickness, probably.
Eldar [00:19:31]:
No, no, I think that I. I think the sickness is being developed through the prolonged states of. On examination and pursuing this particular thing.
Mike [00:19:42]:
But you cannot pursue that until you make your belief system.
Eldar [00:19:46]:
Well, it is the belief system though.
Mike [00:19:49]:
Yeah, but, but, yeah, but how'd you get into that flow state. You didn't just wake up one day. You're like that.
Eldar [00:19:54]:
This is my observation. Observation.
Mike [00:19:56]:
But that's where the. That's. So that happens before the illness becomes.
Eldar [00:20:00]:
Well, first you get the impression, right? Oh, this is the impression. And then I think that you develop the sickness after.
Mike [00:20:08]:
Yes.
Anatoliy [00:20:08]:
Well, no, first get an impression. I think that impression turns into a very firm.
Mike [00:20:13]:
No. Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:20:14]:
That impression turns into a very firm conclusion.
Mike [00:20:18]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:20:19]:
Once that firm conclusion is made, all the webs are now shot.
Mike [00:20:22]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:20:23]:
Now you go.
Anatoliy [00:20:23]:
And now. And now you slowly. It's ramp up into flow state.
Eldar [00:20:27]:
Correct.
Mike [00:20:28]:
From.
Anatoliy [00:20:28]:
From there.
Mike [00:20:29]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:20:29]:
And prolonged states of those following the wrong thing will bring you mental illness.
Mike [00:20:35]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:20:36]:
Issue with. With those flow states and. And with those things is that, like, I think that you grow to a place where I would almost say that, like, you. You no longer are able to distinguish, like, almost like, feelings. Like, like, I'm not sure if you're.
Mike [00:20:57]:
If you even know, like, like, if.
Anatoliy [00:21:02]:
You could spot what happiness even feels like.
Mike [00:21:04]:
Hmm.
Anatoliy [00:21:05]:
Because, like.
Mike [00:21:09]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:21:10]:
Like, I'm not convinced that you may.
Mike [00:21:12]:
You may call it happiness, but no, I didn't.
Anatoliy [00:21:16]:
I don't think that.
Mike [00:21:17]:
You may think that you're happy, but it's. You just not calling it.
Eldar [00:21:20]:
Yeah, no, I think you really do make.
Mike [00:21:23]:
You make it feel real.
Mike [00:21:24]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:21:25]:
I just think enough people probably around you. My prediction is probably that enough people around you and enough of marketing in the general world makes you believe that you're happy, and you no longer even examine whether you're happy or not.
Mike [00:21:40]:
Okay.
Anatoliy [00:21:41]:
Because, like, enough people are like, how can you be upset if you have all this money?
Eldar [00:21:45]:
Yeah, that's definitely a promotion as well.
Anatoliy [00:21:47]:
Yeah, we're like, like, what do you mean? What are you mad about? Like, you have everything, you know?
Phillip [00:21:52]:
Like.
Mike [00:21:52]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:21:52]:
Like, then it's like, enough of that leads to even the discussion about whether they're, like, there's even happiness or not.
Eldar [00:22:00]:
So it's almost. And then you get into more confused.
Mike [00:22:02]:
State, and I just continues.
Eldar [00:22:04]:
And prolongs itself. Yeah, you just.
Anatoliy [00:22:06]:
I think from that, because naturally, I think from pursuing that kind of level of wealth, I think naturally comes a very high amount of business from it. Like, you. You need to be probably extremely busy for a very long time to. To get that kind of wealth and to prolong it.
Eldar [00:22:26]:
So check this out. So would you then say a person who has been chasing this for a very long time, like Jim Carrey.
Mike [00:22:34]:
Right.
Eldar [00:22:35]:
Who was under that impression, I'm gonna chase my career and all this other stuff, make all this money. You know what I mean? Get 10,000 houses everywhere on the water. You know what I mean? And then he crashed. Crashed and burned.
Mike [00:22:49]:
Yeah. Right.
Eldar [00:22:50]:
Sold everything.
Mike [00:22:51]:
Right.
Eldar [00:22:52]:
And then made the quote, the statement of, I wish everybody got a lot of money so they know that that's not the answer.
Mike [00:22:57]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:22:57]:
Right.
Eldar [00:22:58]:
That's how you said it.
Mike [00:23:00]:
As fast as possible. Yeah. All right.
Eldar [00:23:02]:
Because I think he realized that he's been doing this hoarding for a very long time.
Mike [00:23:08]:
Right. Chipping away at trying to prove himself wrong. Almost right.
Eldar [00:23:12]:
But not literally right. But that's what happens at the end. Because at the end, when you did have it all and you check boxes on everything that you wanted to check.
Mike [00:23:20]:
Boxes on, I guess there's gonna be a.
Anatoliy [00:23:22]:
There's nowhere to turn to.
Eldar [00:23:24]:
There's nowhere to turn to. And you finally facing yourself as to.
Mike [00:23:26]:
Say, like, where am I?
Eldar [00:23:28]:
Who am I? And how do I actually feel? And then you realize, like, wait a second. What impression was on there? And naturally, I think that you have to get into a depressed state.
Anatoliy [00:23:37]:
Depression has to let down.
Mike [00:23:40]:
You were wrong. Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:23:42]:
When that sinks in more and more, it's like, before I could feel.
Mike [00:23:46]:
Like.
Anatoliy [00:23:46]:
Before I could feel that, like, there's, like, progress to be made and, like, there's a. Like, a salvation here. I mean, I think it definitely feels like, you know, more hopelessness. And this is really. I mean, it's really bad because if you get to that place, you probably spent a lot of time, invested a lot of resources. Probably burn a lot of bridges.
Mike [00:24:08]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:24:08]:
Acted very particular ways towards people. Towards people.
Mike [00:24:11]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:24:12]:
Made predictions.
Mike [00:24:13]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:24:13]:
Like, you start. I think, like, everything starts traveling fast, and you probably realize you've been very evil.
Mike [00:24:19]:
Oh, right. And I think. I.
Eldar [00:24:21]:
Like.
Mike [00:24:22]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:24:22]:
I mean, I think that you naturally go in a very down place, and you probably.
Eldar [00:24:26]:
The way you acted probably justified it by saying that, listen, you don't understand me. This is the most important thing, and I'm doing what I'm doing.
Mike [00:24:33]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:24:33]:
I don't think anyone can sit still with the. With a genuine realization of wrongdoing like that. That's the worst feeling any of us can have.
Mike [00:24:40]:
That's true.
Anatoliy [00:24:41]:
Like, when you actually sit in your.
Mike [00:24:42]:
Like. Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:24:43]:
Like, I messed up here.
Mike [00:24:44]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:24:45]:
Like, I did wrong here.
Mike [00:24:46]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:24:46]:
I mean, like, you feel terrible, right?
Mike [00:24:49]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:24:50]:
Before you could start making, like, amends to things.
Mike [00:24:53]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:24:54]:
Or, like, fixing things or doing that, like, it's naturally a bad feeling, especially. Because, again, it's like a big bulletin board thing, and to only come to a point where you were wrong about it. Like, I mean, there's no bigger blow. Like all your whole life is like, like whatever you're like, you know, like what's that called when you go for like a, like a doctorate or something?
Mike [00:25:17]:
Like you have to make a dissertation.
Anatoliy [00:25:20]:
Yeah, but like the donation thesis, right. Do something.
Mike [00:25:25]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:25:25]:
It's almost like, like your whole kind of life's work or like whole, like your whole, like existence is pretty much wrong. So it's like you can only feel bad.
Mike [00:25:35]:
So then it's correct. The question is correct, right? Yes.
Eldar [00:25:40]:
Prolonged states of action and doing it, which is flow states, right.
Mike [00:25:46]:
Which are backing the wrong theory. Wrong.
Eldar [00:25:51]:
What is it called in science?
Mike [00:25:52]:
Hypothesis. Hypothesis, yeah. Right.
Eldar [00:25:55]:
Money, in this case we're examining money equals happiness.
Mike [00:25:57]:
Right.
Eldar [00:25:58]:
A hypothesis.
Mike [00:25:58]:
Right. Yeah.
Eldar [00:25:59]:
Long periods enough in that realm, trying.
Mike [00:26:03]:
To prove this out will result in mental illness. Yes or no.
Eldar [00:26:09]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:26:10]:
I also think, I don't know if it's an issue or what you want to call it, but everybody at all different levels in life, different times, everybody's not. I'm not sure if the right word.
Mike [00:26:23]:
Is like forced, but everybody is going.
Anatoliy [00:26:27]:
To make a hypothesis. Like they're all.
Eldar [00:26:32]:
Everybody is. Well, we always do.
Anatoliy [00:26:33]:
We always do on different things.
Eldar [00:26:35]:
Hundred percent.
Anatoliy [00:26:36]:
And then from that hypothesis, naturally actions are going to happen.
Mike [00:26:41]:
That's right.
Anatoliy [00:26:41]:
And those actions are going to happen regardless if you're thinking or not.
Mike [00:26:46]:
That.
Anatoliy [00:26:46]:
That I think is like the big.
Mike [00:26:48]:
Thing is that you, you're going to.
Anatoliy [00:26:50]:
Make moves on something.
Mike [00:26:52]:
For sure.
Anatoliy [00:26:52]:
You're going to do something. There's no one that's just going to sit there patient and meditate until they.
Mike [00:26:57]:
What about aging Tom? He does stuff too.
Anatoliy [00:27:00]:
Yeah, he does a lot of actions, right?
Mike [00:27:02]:
Oh, yeah.
Anatoliy [00:27:02]:
Regardless, right.
Eldar [00:27:03]:
He buys the camera.
Anatoliy [00:27:03]:
Unless you. You're not going to sit there in like a cave and. And meditate until you figure it out for like, for sure, right?
Mike [00:27:09]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:27:09]:
You're gonna do actions.
Eldar [00:27:11]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:27:11]:
Regardless of thought that. That I think is the problem is.
Mike [00:27:14]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:27:16]:
I don't think it's a big issue at all with that. I think that if you made certain hypotheses, right, theories in your head and you made certain actions, I think that's perfectly normal for you to, you know, fail. Fail in those actions, right. And kind of reevaluate your game plan.
Mike [00:27:32]:
Right.
Eldar [00:27:32]:
Hopefully you do it fast enough, you know, you can learn fast to say, okay, this one was wrong, I'm gonna go reevaluate.
Anatoliy [00:27:39]:
Nobody think have to have the ability to identify failures. Well, sure, cuz those can easily, like. Yeah.
Eldar [00:27:48]:
Accumulate.
Anatoliy [00:27:49]:
Accumulate into just, like, not failures, but progress justify progress.
Mike [00:27:54]:
Oh, shit.
Eldar [00:27:55]:
Are you talking about somebody specific?
Anatoliy [00:27:57]:
No.
Mike [00:27:57]:
Okay, cool. No. All right.
Anatoliy [00:27:59]:
No, no, I'm just saying in general.
Mike [00:28:01]:
Okay. I think.
Eldar [00:28:05]:
I think.
Anatoliy [00:28:05]:
Hit by a hot dog or something.
Mike [00:28:07]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:28:07]:
I think Phil was excused for today.
Mike [00:28:08]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:28:10]:
I think he's suffering the mental illness of hunger.
Phillip [00:28:14]:
This is the most high that I.
Phillip [00:28:15]:
Can remember myself being.
Mike [00:28:17]:
You look crazy.
Phillip [00:28:19]:
I like it, though.
Eldar [00:28:21]:
Oh, you do?
Phillip [00:28:21]:
Oh, no, I like how tired I am right now.
Eldar [00:28:23]:
Okay, cool. Because your mind is not existing right now.
Mike [00:28:25]:
Oh.
Mike [00:28:26]:
You actually did not want to participate today.
Eldar [00:28:27]:
Yeah, yeah, that's okay.
Phillip [00:28:30]:
I wanted to. Listen, I want to.
Mike [00:28:31]:
Cool. Very good. Yeah. Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:28:34]:
Like, that. That, I think is, like. I think that that ability is confused with, like, resiliency.
Mike [00:28:41]:
It could. If you have pride. Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [00:28:44]:
I mean, there's obviously all the tools that we tap into and stuff, and.
Anatoliy [00:28:47]:
That happens all the time, is, like, we fail on things, and we'll just be like, oh, no, it's actually, like, you know, it's like, part of. Part of, like, the journey.
Mike [00:28:54]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:28:54]:
Or like, this for that.
Mike [00:28:55]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:28:56]:
Versus, like, hey, like, wait a second. You failed here. Let's re examine and. And that. But, like.
Mike [00:29:01]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:29:01]:
Yes. See, it's like a.
Eldar [00:29:03]:
It's a conundrum.
Anatoliy [00:29:04]:
Yeah, it's a conundrum because, like, you're failing and then you're ex. You're the same person. The same person that's failing is the same person that's re examining.
Mike [00:29:13]:
Right. Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:29:14]:
And, like, they're not better at anything.
Mike [00:29:15]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:29:16]:
So, like, how are they then going to make conclusions and decide next steps.
Mike [00:29:20]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:29:21]:
When they're the ones who are failing like that.
Mike [00:29:23]:
That.
Eldar [00:29:24]:
We've came to those conclusions a lot.
Phillip [00:29:26]:
They have to admit that they need help.
Eldar [00:29:28]:
Oh, there you go. I mean, we've came to that again. Somebody pain.
Anatoliy [00:29:30]:
Yeah, I think that, like, I don't know if it was made by, like, a. Like, a philosopher, like a scientist or who.
Mike [00:29:38]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:29:38]:
But, like, a staple line is that humans are social beings.
Mike [00:29:41]:
Right. Social creatures.
Anatoliy [00:29:43]:
Social creatures.
Mike [00:29:44]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:29:44]:
That's like, a staple line. I think you. I think maybe the person who, like, said that and, like, find out to be true. Like, I think that they knew that.
Eldar [00:29:57]:
What about friendship is a sheltering tree? Does that fit anywhere or.
Mike [00:30:01]:
No. Good.
Anatoliy [00:30:04]:
Yeah, like, I think that they knew that people that, like, at one point or another, people need help. And, like, if they're stuck with just.
Eldar [00:30:13]:
Themselves, is friendship a shelter?
Mike [00:30:15]:
Intrigue? Could be. Is.
Eldar [00:30:17]:
It's coming from. Is it stemming from the same stuff.
Mike [00:30:19]:
Yeah. Like the person who said that. Yeah, it could be. Do you think they're friends?
Phillip [00:30:24]:
You think those two people are friends?
Eldar [00:30:25]:
They could be. Especially when maybe it's the same person.
Mike [00:30:29]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [00:30:30]:
So, Mike, you. You're biting your nails, man. You have to say something.
Mike [00:30:34]:
No, I agree with it. Yeah, I definitely agree. But I think, um.
Eldar [00:30:39]:
And then talk. Okay.
Mike [00:30:40]:
I think it's just calling things like, you know, I don't know if people consider, like, attachment stress as mental conditions. You know, I think a lot of it is, like.
Eldar [00:30:49]:
Although I. I think that the stressors and stress, Mike, is indicators that mental illness is around the corner.
Mike [00:30:56]:
No, but I think attachment is a mental condition. Like, I don't know.
Eldar [00:31:00]:
Well, no, we're talking about very specific ones, like. Like add.
Mike [00:31:03]:
Right.
Eldar [00:31:03]:
OCD depression.
Mike [00:31:06]:
Right.
Eldar [00:31:07]:
Anxiety.
Mike [00:31:07]:
But those are the big ones.
Mike [00:31:08]:
What?
Mike [00:31:09]:
Inside those big ones is small guys.
Eldar [00:31:11]:
Well, I'm saying that I think the small ones at largers of the lee or the crumbs you follow in order to get to the bigger.
Mike [00:31:19]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:31:20]:
And then.
Eldar [00:31:21]:
And then you're stuck almost in a compulsive kind of a trap of depression. Right. Where depression is telling you what, like, I'm fucking hopeless. Like, everything's fucking bad. How do I fucking get out of this, right? It's a perpetual cycle. Like, you created a loop that you can't come out of. OCD. Same thing.
Eldar [00:31:38]:
Anxiety, same thing. They're all rooted in the fucking circle of trap.
Mike [00:31:43]:
Mm hmm. Right.
Eldar [00:31:44]:
There's no way out. And now.
Katherine [00:31:48]:
But. But the thing is that you're always gonna be in pursuit. You're never gonna be happy until you. And if you don't achieve that, then what happens?
Eldar [00:31:56]:
Correct.
Katherine [00:31:57]:
Which is a great example.
Eldar [00:31:58]:
We've concluded that, yes. You know, and things like that.
Mike [00:32:02]:
Especially.
Eldar [00:32:02]:
Especially if you're following the wrong premise for a very long time.
Mike [00:32:06]:
Right.
Eldar [00:32:06]:
We get made an example of Jim Carrey, who, you know, concluded after getting all the money, all the fame, all the power, all the girls or whoever, whatever, he concluded that that's not the answer.
Mike [00:32:16]:
Right.
Eldar [00:32:17]:
And he needed a whole lifetime almost to get to that point.
Katherine [00:32:19]:
I love that quote of his, actually.
Mike [00:32:21]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:32:22]:
He wishes that everybody. Whoa.
Katherine [00:32:24]:
That everybody would be rich.
Eldar [00:32:25]:
Rich as soon as possible so they can realize that that's not the answer.
Katherine [00:32:28]:
The answer. Yeah.
Eldar [00:32:30]:
Yeah. So, so far, everybody agreed, right? What we were saying before captain came in, can you guys remember or can I go into the next thing that toli was including?
Katherine [00:32:41]:
I mean, I agree too.
Eldar [00:32:42]:
You agree to.
Katherine [00:32:43]:
Yeah, for sure.
Eldar [00:32:45]:
Okay. So how would you think that? How would you use this maybe a question or answer to be able to kind of reflect on your own states of mind that you're currently experiencing, like. Like, the mental illness and stuff like that?
Katherine [00:33:00]:
Oh, I feel like it's an easy answer for me. Like, to say I agree with it because of my experience with, like, my mental health and my mood and. And dealing, you know, like, man, give.
Eldar [00:33:11]:
Us an example of a prolonged flow.
Mike [00:33:14]:
State that you will go into which.
Eldar [00:33:17]:
Was unexamined or incorrect, and then you developed a result of it. An anxiety or depression or whatever it is. Give us an example, a life example.
Katherine [00:33:29]:
I think I grew up with very low self esteem, and I think I internalized a lot of the things that were happening in my life, especially a lot of the hardships that came after my parents separation. And kind of, you know, I realize now that, like, my parents, once they split, my mom went through, like, a depression, so I had, like, an absent father, and then my mom was absent, like, in mind. So, like, not having support. Not having, like, a positive, like, just, like. Like, a figure there that was actually, like, supporting me.
Mike [00:34:03]:
Okay.
Katherine [00:34:05]:
I didn't believe in myself, and I think I grew to have very low self esteem for a long time. And not through just that, but I think that just prolonged periods of. Of that flow state of internalizing my emotions, not knowing how to process my emotions, I was functioning with for many years with depression and anxiety. It's really hard to concentrate with all this. I think we wait until they're done with their playing. Cause I can't.
Eldar [00:34:37]:
Okay, guys, go get it. That was crazy, right? Not to mention, it's probably, like, she slammed into that.
Mike [00:34:44]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:34:44]:
Cause our nose.
Eldar [00:34:45]:
She went after her.
Mike [00:34:46]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Mike [00:34:46]:
She dropped the ball and she flew into it.
Mike [00:34:48]:
Yeah. Holy.
Katherine [00:34:56]:
We have to get the run.
Mike [00:34:57]:
You understand?
Katherine [00:34:58]:
She could have just slammed into the.
Eldar [00:34:59]:
Wall if I wasn't here.
Anatoliy [00:35:00]:
Yeah, she's a nut.
Katherine [00:35:02]:
But you're so happy, right, Pence? She's not pressed?
Eldar [00:35:07]:
She doesn't feel pain.
Katherine [00:35:08]:
No.
Phillip [00:35:09]:
I love Penny so much.
Mike [00:35:11]:
You want to fly into the wallfield?
Eldar [00:35:13]:
Wants to fly to a wall right now. Oh, Penny's the best.
Katherine [00:35:17]:
Penny is the best. She's living life, and she's living large.
Mike [00:35:21]:
Stephanie's life. Lavish.
Katherine [00:35:24]:
Okay, I think she's ready for some more. Babe, should we lock that. That door outside?
Eldar [00:35:29]:
No, no, it's fine.
Katherine [00:35:30]:
I saw a lot of mysterious folks.
Mike [00:35:32]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:35:33]:
Oh, is it. What are they called?
Anatoliy [00:35:34]:
NPC'S?
Katherine [00:35:35]:
I don't know.
Anatoliy [00:35:37]:
Console.
Mike [00:35:38]:
Yeah.
Katherine [00:35:39]:
There's, like, a there's like, a liquor bottle in the parking lot.
Mike [00:35:43]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:35:44]:
People chilling.
Katherine [00:35:44]:
You know, people having a free time over here.
Eldar [00:35:48]:
It's like, come on, like, throw it. Go get it, pen nose.
Katherine [00:36:01]:
Sheesh. I'm thinking about the. What is it? The unchecked. The unchecked flow state.
Mike [00:36:07]:
Yeah.
Katherine [00:36:07]:
I would still be. I would still be, like, living it with, like, depression and anxiety.
Mike [00:36:12]:
Mm hmm.
Katherine [00:36:12]:
Had I not checked it checked it checked without checking. I mean, though, you could live, oh, my gosh. So sad. Like, you can live your whole life, like, completely sick and completely overwhelmed with overwhelm and thoughts and worries and fears. So, you know what happens when you're very, like. You know, when you're fearful of the world, you start kind of. I feel like it all becomes very negative. The world is negative.
Katherine [00:36:37]:
You see things negatively and you put yourself in a tiny little box where you only want to live a certain way, where nothing interrupts any of your, you know, any of these little things that you have built up to protect yourself and protect almost like, keep yourself in this anxious state.
Mike [00:36:53]:
Yeah.
Katherine [00:36:53]:
You know, does that make any sense?
Eldar [00:36:54]:
Hundred percent.
Katherine [00:36:55]:
You know, you build this, like, glass little house around your fragile thoughts and prolonged.
Eldar [00:37:01]:
Prolonged enough in this state is what causes mental illness.
Katherine [00:37:04]:
Oh, absolutely.
Eldar [00:37:05]:
Yeah, absolutely.
Mike [00:37:09]:
You guys saying the same thing. But probably part of this is that things that are not rooted in logic will cause you to get into these. That exactly what it is. Like if you draw a logical conclusion based on money equals happiness.
Mike [00:37:28]:
That's a lot.
Mike [00:37:29]:
That's a fallacy, logically, right. You know, and a lot of times we draw these illogical conclusions in our head, and then they force us into the thinking this way, acting this way, believing this thing. And then, you know, getting into these flow states, you know?
Eldar [00:37:43]:
But you see, there's something that. That also plays a role very specifically when it comes to you following through your dream, right? Because you could tell somebody who's sitting here, who's not really a thinker and stuff, I'm gonna get all this money, and this is how it's gonna make.
Mike [00:37:56]:
Me feel, all right?
Eldar [00:37:57]:
And you can give them really logical conclusions as to how that's gonna work out and stuff like that. Oh, wow. That's right. That's true. You know, and they start respecting you and stuff, right? There's some people might. Might doubt you and have haters, but what you can tap into now is your ego and pride, right? So what's gonna happen is then you're gonna try to prove them even more wrong, right? Then you're gonna have that umph, that energy or that anger, maybe.
Mike [00:38:21]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:38:21]:
And you start developing more stuff around that.
Mike [00:38:23]:
But the thing is, yeah, then, then what you're saying is like it's almost, that's the way it's supposed to be.
Eldar [00:38:28]:
Well then are you going to mister.
Katherine [00:38:32]:
God, you just said that last bit.
Mike [00:38:37]:
If you're trying to have a logical conversation with somebody and you're saying, hey, let's talk about this belief that you have and why it's logically flawed. Others saying, there's another factor here at play is that the person has ego and pride. He may want to try to prove you wrong because he's so attached his idea.
Katherine [00:38:53]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:38:54]:
And I said, well, in that case, then maybe that's exactly what's necessary is that person.
Eldar [00:38:59]:
Yeah, well, it's not unnecessary. I think it's a logical actually equation.
Mike [00:39:03]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:39:03]:
That if this, then that.
Mike [00:39:05]:
Right, yeah, well, yeah, logic words. If money equals happiness, if money does not equal happiness, then, then what? Then what? So it works like that as well.
Katherine [00:39:16]:
I think that the ego is strong there because also, like, what if this is something that this person has been taught by their parents? You know, if you want a good life, and it happens a lot, especially with immigrants, let's say, you know, like, in order for us to like, you know, progress or like live good, like, we need to make money in order to survive or to have a good life, right? So if you have parents, let's say, that have been teaching you this your whole life, this is one of your truths. Like, you know, you believe this and so somebody comes out of left field and starts like challenging all those things. Now you have to challenge possibly many belief systems or a lot of things. Now you, now you have to realize like, oh, shit, like, my parents have been lying to me this whole time and all these beliefs that. So, like, it's not just a matter of like, oh, should I have to change my mind now? It's like I have to question maybe everything that, you know, I was taught or everything that I believe. It's like an unbecoming of a person.
Eldar [00:40:11]:
Yeah.
Katherine [00:40:12]:
So I can see how, how quickly someone's ego can activate. Like you're, you're just attacking me completely, like, as an individual. Like all.
Mike [00:40:20]:
But then, but then if you're saying that, like, if you're gonna use the parents excuse and all the excuse, sorry. If you can use the parents thing, then you're saying then that is unjust that your parents taught you this stuff and you're like, you saying that, that, that is nonjust.
Katherine [00:40:34]:
I'm not justifying it. Like, you know, like for thinking, slot thinking. I just, I think that, you know, a lot of people are, you know, are, are not taught things correct.
Mike [00:40:44]:
No, no, I get that. But like, how does that happen in.
Katherine [00:40:47]:
A position where you really do have to start and. Yeah, you know, and then also the proper guidance or, you know, now where you're getting your new knowledge is also really important. So I feel like it's, you know, it's a little complicated.
Mike [00:41:01]:
No, I think it is complicated and I'm trying to understand guess why do person that you may say, like, well, it's innocent kid, right? Why is this kid suffering? Because of all the stuff that was implanted on the parent? Is, is, are we saying that it's unjust or if it is just. And how is it just, you know, I'm trying to look at it from that angle. Like, is it, if it happened this way, then it should have happened this way. Like, what's the logic behind it? Why did it have to happen this way? That what he's saying almost is like.
Eldar [00:41:30]:
If your parents got the, the theory or the hypothesis wrong from the jump, it was inevitable for you to get it wrong too for a certain period of time up until you, you became an adult.
Anatoliy [00:41:43]:
If you develop awareness, if you have.
Mike [00:41:45]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:41:46]:
If you have elderism, it could continue.
Katherine [00:41:49]:
Generations if you don't. Awareness at some point.
Anatoliy [00:41:53]:
Yeah, yeah, I think that I was.
Mike [00:41:55]:
Thinking about this now.
Anatoliy [00:41:56]:
Now I'm like, no, you want to.
Eldar [00:42:01]:
Sit the way you.
Katherine [00:42:03]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:42:03]:
And then just twist the microphone, spread.
Katherine [00:42:07]:
Your wings a little.
Anatoliy [00:42:08]:
I was sitting like this before.
Eldar [00:42:09]:
Yeah, but if you want to lay down.
Anatoliy [00:42:11]:
No, I don't want to lay down. Like, you know, I'm saying is I, like, I think it almost like, to a degree, like, the thing is that when you're young, when you're young, a thorough examination process does not play out as to, like, like, who are you? Like, I don't know, like, why are you here? Or, like.
Katherine [00:42:39]:
Or are parents teaching me like, the wrong thing?
Anatoliy [00:42:42]:
No, like, even.
Mike [00:42:43]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:42:44]:
Yeah, that's part of it too.
Mike [00:42:45]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:42:46]:
Like, what is happiness? Like, what brings you happiness? Like, all that kind of stuff. It's not like a thorough process that's talked about. Right. And I think what happens is that for all types of communities, whether you're. It's definitely easier in poverty if you're in, like, if you grow up, if you're born into, like, poverty. But now when days with, like, social media, Instagram, everybody's born into poverty. Even if your parents live in New Jersey and have a house and all that, like, you. Like, you're still in the way that you act and think you're extremely poor.
Anatoliy [00:43:22]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:43:23]:
So they're gonna. They're gonna slay you for these.
Anatoliy [00:43:26]:
Mike, question.
Eldar [00:43:27]:
Culture.
Anatoliy [00:43:28]:
My Mike, Mike, Mike, question is this. It's like, because of, like, social media and all this kind of stuff, right? Like, do we agrees? Because, like, you, everybody will feel that they're poor. And the feeling of being poor and being in poverty equates to people having the feeling of suffering, right?
Eldar [00:43:49]:
Equates to people. Yes, that's true.
Mike [00:43:52]:
Right. Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:43:53]:
So if you never.
Katherine [00:43:54]:
Actual poverty actually has a level of unhappiness.
Anatoliy [00:43:58]:
Like, well, what I'm saying is that, like, what people consider to themselves, being poor is a feeling is suffering, right. And is it only natural that the majority of the world will. Will come to the conclusion that money equals happiness because they get, like, one of the first almost, like, conclusions or feelings that they get is that. Is that they're. They're poor.
Mike [00:44:28]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:44:31]:
It is not only natural, because, like, if your first real suffering is this kind of, like, a feeling of not having enough. Of not having enough of something, is it not only right for you to be convinced that the meaning of life is money?
Eldar [00:44:46]:
Is it because the general public is born into it? That's why.
Mike [00:44:49]:
Well.
Anatoliy [00:44:50]:
Well, no, I mean, like, you could talk.
Mike [00:44:53]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anatoliy [00:44:54]:
The general public is like.
Mike [00:44:56]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:44:56]:
Because nowadays, like, the word rich is like what? Like, if, for example, if your parents both have, like, I don't know, well into six figure jobs, right, and they can have, like, a pretty good house in, like, New Jersey and you live in a decent town, right?
Mike [00:45:10]:
Yo.
Anatoliy [00:45:11]:
Saying, is that, like, the def. The definition, over time, continues to involve with, like, it's. It's all definitions, all different things. Like, what's beautiful, right, with all these filters and instagrams and, like, the way that people present themselves out there.
Eldar [00:45:25]:
Everybody's ugly. You're right.
Mike [00:45:26]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:45:27]:
Like, what's out there, right?
Mike [00:45:29]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:45:29]:
Everybody is ugly.
Mike [00:45:31]:
Yeah. Right.
Eldar [00:45:32]:
And then you gotta do things.
Mike [00:45:33]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:45:33]:
Right. Or everybody is now poor. Like, just having parents that could get you, like, decently good brands of clothing and do all this, right? Like, that's still in the. In, like, the social media world. Like, you're oak, right?
Phillip [00:45:47]:
So don't you think this is all built. This is all built into everything that's. That's made, right? So, like, if everybody's coming from, like, this, like, beautiful, like, happy, like, I'm. I'm enough place, then they're not gonna have to buy all these things. They're not gonna have to, like, buy into all the things that they're creating. So, like, it's gonna fall. It's gonna fall. So, yeah, to your point.
Mike [00:46:05]:
Exactly.
Phillip [00:46:06]:
So, like, everybody, everybody that does grow up poor or not having enough, it does make sense that they would think, yes, money is the way out.
Mike [00:46:16]:
No, no.
Eldar [00:46:17]:
His argument is that everybody's actually poor. Everybody grows up poor. Even if you're poor, you grew up poor.
Anatoliy [00:46:23]:
I grew up poor. We all grew up poor here. What? In how society and, like, marketing and social media is portrayed.
Phillip [00:46:31]:
Yeah, I'm saying. That's why I'm saying that's by design, is what I'm saying.
Anatoliy [00:46:36]:
Yeah. In terms of how society are, like, we're all here extremely poor.
Eldar [00:46:42]:
What's acceptable, right up by society of what gets likes and points.
Anatoliy [00:46:48]:
It'S no longer, it's no longer like, you have money, like, if you cannot eat at places or, like, have decent types of clothing or, like, carts.
Mike [00:46:57]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:46:57]:
Or, like, like, own a house or whatever. Like, yeah. Like, that is the new poor.
Mike [00:47:02]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:47:02]:
Nowadays. Right.
Katherine [00:47:04]:
And it's. And it's never enough.
Mike [00:47:06]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:47:06]:
And now I think because of social media, kids get this feeling of being poor very early on, and I feel like, what, what happens? That that becomes their first real suffering, like, their first moment of, like, real suffering, and then they forever will go down the loop of doing this. Forever unless they have a chance to, like, that one day.
Mike [00:47:33]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:47:33]:
You're just describing, like, what, how the system is. So, like, us having these conversations, like, we're examining these things, right? So, like, we're saying that most people don't. They get into these flow states, and they're just pretty much, like, on autopilot, and they're, they're, they're totally gone.
Mike [00:47:46]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:47:46]:
So, like, just think so. It's not just the individual, like, creating these things. They have to engage with the environment, and the environment that they grew up in. Society is basically, like, having them start off at, like, a zero. Most people, right? Like, there's a beauty standard for women and people.
Eldar [00:48:02]:
Even if you're rich, then you have to fight. Beauty.
Mike [00:48:04]:
Then you have to fight.
Eldar [00:48:05]:
Yeah, you're done. So to me, this big tits, you're done. You're done. If you don't have big lips, you're done.
Phillip [00:48:10]:
Beauty and money. But for the most part, to simplify and generalize it, for the most part, women are gonna deal more with the looks, right. And, like, men are gonna have more of, like, I want. I wanna be rich, right? So it's like, I feel really poor. Now, obviously, you can have a little both for each person, but again, I'm generalizing. But as, when you grow up and you're thinking, like, I wanna be rich, like, to me, like, as a man, I was like, I always thought that stuff, like, I was like, okay, I didn't have enough. I always saw, like, a kid growing up at the, like, dwight Englewood, right? Like, they'd spend, like, 40,000 a year on, like, high school. We played them in soccer.
Phillip [00:48:44]:
And I was like, damn.
Phillip [00:48:45]:
Like, like, I feel poor. Like, this is one reason why I gravitate. Gravitated towards somebody who had a lot of money, because I was like, oh. Like, like, if I can attach myself to somebody else, like, it makes me feel good and then, like, increase my self worth. Exactly.
Mike [00:49:01]:
But.
Phillip [00:49:01]:
But I realized that it doesn't. And most of these people who are going after these superficial things are not really rooted in values. And, like, you can actually go backwards. It actually makes it more difficult for you to be a good person. And then you start to realize, like, oh, shit, money is not the goal. Being a good person is because that's, like, what's carried with you. So I think. I think everything set up for you to pretty much fail and for you to succeed, like, in the way that we're talking about, it's like, I think it's almost even less than, like, the wealthy people that they talk about.
Phillip [00:49:34]:
You know, when they talk about, like, 1% owns, like, 40%, whatever, and they talk about money, I think the type of success that we're talking about, the self actualized person, I think that's a fraction even of that 1%. Like, I think it's like, I think we're talking, like, maybe hundreds, thousands, I would probably say is like, an exaggeration. Like, we're talking maybe millions of people.
Anatoliy [00:49:53]:
That, like, run stuff.
Phillip [00:49:54]:
Like hundreds of thousands. Millions.
Eldar [00:49:56]:
Like, are you potentially calling this podcast very special? Very, very special, yeah, if you got it from phillips.
Phillip [00:50:02]:
Very, very.
Eldar [00:50:02]:
Somebody.
Katherine [00:50:03]:
We need. We need to insert one of these.
Mike [00:50:12]:
Signature move the cat.
Phillip [00:50:13]:
But, yeah, so, as against defining. It's basically redefining these things, but also understanding, once you understand that the system is set up for this, because then again, you're buying all the makeup, you're going out to the restaurants, you're buying the books, you're buying into the guru stuff, you're buying into these, like, Tony Robbins and self development stuff. Now, can there be good stuff to it.
Phillip [00:50:33]:
Yes.
Phillip [00:50:33]:
But what mindset do you have going into these things? Like, who do you want to become? Like, what are you trying to get out of it?
Anatoliy [00:50:39]:
Well, think about it. In the world in general, what percent of all people's circles find it okay for an individual to either be confused or not know what to do?
Mike [00:50:55]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:50:56]:
Nobody. Yeah, yeah. In any circle, group of friends or peers or whoever, it's not acceptable to be confused. Nobody, nobody will be okay with you being so not knowing what to do and stuff like that.
Anatoliy [00:51:09]:
We won't accept you. Your friends are not gonna accept you and society not gonna accept you.
Eldar [00:51:14]:
Everybody has a plan. If you ask anybody, like, what are you trying to do? They're gonna lay it out for you. Like, to get like, I'm gonna finish this. I'm gonna finish this. I'm gonna make this not okay to.
Anatoliy [00:51:21]:
Say, I don't know, like that in general.
Katherine [00:51:24]:
Oh, yeah. My parents never like that.
Phillip [00:51:25]:
It's absolutely not just thing.
Katherine [00:51:27]:
Like, I still don't know. Like, if I still went to college, I still wouldn't know.
Phillip [00:51:30]:
But just think about how much, like, you don't even have to ask people that question. Like, oh, like, oh, what should I.
Phillip [00:51:35]:
How many people do you think, especially.
Phillip [00:51:37]:
Your parents stuff just like, tell you what to do without you even asking. Your friends and stuff will just have opinions on, like, what you should.
Eldar [00:51:44]:
That's already when you got stripped of your own ability to think and somebody else has to think for you.
Phillip [00:51:49]:
Right.
Eldar [00:51:49]:
And they are under impression that they know the truth.
Phillip [00:51:53]:
Right.
Eldar [00:51:53]:
I mean, I went to college because my sister told me to get this, this, uh, major.
Katherine [00:51:59]:
She wanted you to become a paralegal or something.
Mike [00:52:03]:
Yeah.
Katherine [00:52:03]:
Right.
Mike [00:52:04]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:52:05]:
I went sign up for all those courses because she told me to. Had no idea what to do. You know, she's like, no, you want to do this.
Mike [00:52:14]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:52:14]:
So I think just like Pete, like, be, because you cannot be in this prolonged state of like, this, I don't know, type thing, right? Because just think just like how things are up. You're, you have, still have to take action and you still have to do something. So because of that, it is very, very logical, actually, that money equals happiness is going to be a way that people feel like. That makes a lot of sense. That makes very, very logical sense. The money equals happiness. Because if that, like I said before, if that's your first big suffering thing, then you'll only deduce that the opposite of this is what is what things is all about.
Mike [00:53:10]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:53:11]:
You say the same for beauty.
Mike [00:53:12]:
Right.
Phillip [00:53:12]:
Like, somebody calls you ugly or they reject you.
Mike [00:53:14]:
Right.
Phillip [00:53:15]:
How. How, like, what are the chances that that person is gonna go get plastic surgery? Like, probably very, very high. So they're gonna associate having to do something outside of themselves in order to get them to be accepted with beauty.
Mike [00:53:28]:
Same thing with.
Eldar [00:53:28]:
It sounds like we have to tell people what beauty really is.
Mike [00:53:31]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:53:32]:
Read the find.
Mike [00:53:32]:
That was, you know.
Eldar [00:53:33]:
What do you mean, redefining? Well, because it's.
Phillip [00:53:37]:
It's not there anymore.
Eldar [00:53:38]:
Well, okay, fine. In a society, we have to redefine it, but we actually have to define in general.
Phillip [00:53:43]:
Yeah, we're defining it.
Eldar [00:53:44]:
Yes, teens, because they got it all wrong.
Katherine [00:53:47]:
The definition is out there. Social media, magazines, movies, everything is dictating what is considered to be beautiful and what. What they should look like in order to be deemed attractive by men. So, like, the idea is definitely out there.
Eldar [00:54:01]:
Are you guys ready for these brands to go after us, shut us down?
Anatoliy [00:54:05]:
Think about the human. Human desired look.
Mike [00:54:09]:
Is a.
Anatoliy [00:54:10]:
Is a computer filtered image.
Eldar [00:54:13]:
Yeah, like that.
Anatoliy [00:54:15]:
I mean, like, what a computer can generate, a software can create is what is humanly desired.
Mike [00:54:22]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:54:23]:
That's why they look like all about.
Katherine [00:54:25]:
Generally, you know, woman, girls are not even comfortable with posting themselves on. In the. On the Internet anymore unless it's with. Through a filter.
Mike [00:54:36]:
Yeah.
Katherine [00:54:36]:
Like they have to filter themselves in order to feel like, okay, this is acceptable to put online. Think about. Yeah, like you're afraid you're. You can't accept how you look, you.
Phillip [00:54:47]:
Know, because most people. Most people are interacting on these things. Most people are dating on these things. They're meeting people. Just think, like, when you used to go out, like, you used to go out to do these type of things.
Phillip [00:54:58]:
Now you don't have to go out to do anything.
Phillip [00:55:00]:
You don't have to go out to order your food. You don't have to go to a restaurant. You don't have to go to the movies. You can sit home. You don't have to interact. You can, like, like, the next thing is, like, you're gonna get a bot, like, to just be home. You're gonna get a robot. Like girlfriend or boyfriend.
Phillip [00:55:11]:
Like, you just.
Phillip [00:55:12]:
You're not gonna need anything like that. So, like, to totally point, they're shaping.
Phillip [00:55:17]:
That look based off of, like, all these new technologies and how people's lifestyle is. Is progressively changing.
Mike [00:55:22]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:55:23]:
And, I mean, you can say bad.
Phillip [00:55:24]:
Or good, I don't see good, but.
Eldar [00:55:25]:
It sounds like you're pissed. At the current state of the fairs.
Phillip [00:55:28]:
I don't like it because it changed. The change.
Phillip [00:55:30]:
The idea of beauty that I thought.
Phillip [00:55:31]:
Was, like, I rarely ever see a.
Phillip [00:55:35]:
Person in general that, like, I consider very, like, truly beautiful.
Mike [00:55:38]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Phillip [00:55:39]:
And I see girl. I see women.
Mike [00:55:41]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:55:41]:
Who I see, like, oh, yeah. Like, I see it underneath, like, all the stuff, and they're changing, and I.
Phillip [00:55:47]:
Feel like if they don't even like it, like, I can't.
Phillip [00:55:49]:
I can tell, like, they look unhappy. Like, it looks like they're sad.
Phillip [00:55:53]:
Looks like they're doing it for that reason of something else. Like, when it comes to money, it's not something that you wear. It's maybe, like, you can see it's an ugly, it's a personality. It's something.
Phillip [00:56:02]:
But when you actually, like, put it.
Phillip [00:56:04]:
On you and like, that, like, it's a. It's a physical thing you're putting on your body and you can see it.
Mike [00:56:09]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:56:10]:
It's like, it's a sad. Ugly.
Eldar [00:56:12]:
That's a sad.
Phillip [00:56:13]:
That's the worst one.
Mike [00:56:14]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:56:14]:
I'm saying, like, the goal of humans is to. To be as, like, least human, like, as possible.
Phillip [00:56:19]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:56:20]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:56:20]:
Like, we're not valuing being a human.
Anatoliy [00:56:22]:
News that, like, the. There's, like, a girl who was famous for being, like, the Kim Kardashian. Oh, lookalike.
Mike [00:56:29]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:56:29]:
She just died. I, like, 26 from all, like, the. Like, this surgery.
Katherine [00:56:35]:
Yeah, there was a woman like that. Do you guys remember Anna Nicole Smith?
Mike [00:56:38]:
Yeah.
Katherine [00:56:39]:
Yeah, I believe she had a person like that, too. That. That did. I don't know how many surgeries just to look like. I mean, like, that's all mental illness.
Mike [00:56:47]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:56:47]:
Think about it. Your sole purpose is to look like another individual.
Katherine [00:56:51]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:56:51]:
That's wild.
Katherine [00:56:52]:
To not accept how you were born, and then you have to alter yourself like that.
Mike [00:56:56]:
Yeah.
Katherine [00:56:57]:
And I don't think that no amount of surgeries will ever, like, get them to the place that they want to look like. It doesn't exist. They'll never be happy.
Mike [00:57:04]:
Yeah.
Katherine [00:57:04]:
It's like dysmorphia.
Phillip [00:57:06]:
So think of what that person's going through.
Phillip [00:57:08]:
Right.
Phillip [00:57:08]:
Not only is it. Look, they definitely lost that there. There's not only sense of self, but they're, like, their ability to thrive, like, at. At any level. So they have to fully immerse themselves. Almost like an actor.
Mike [00:57:23]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:57:23]:
Like, we talked about that.
Phillip [00:57:24]:
Like an actor. But in their everyday life, all day, every day, an actor can go on screen, and then they shut it off. And those people still have, like, you know, very known mental issues where they have to go to therapy and all that, but they can live a regular life, or whatever they call a regular life when they're off screen, these people who are trying to become these things of, like, a Marilyn Monroe or a Kim Kardashian and, like, look like them, they're trying to not be themselves for 24 hours, seven days a week. That is the most dangerous thing that you can possibly do, because you can't talk to that person to try to get them to grow at all, dangerous or not.
Mike [00:57:57]:
Philip. Mike.
Eldar [00:57:58]:
I think Mike was right when he said that it's. It makes logical sense, though.
Phillip [00:58:02]:
It does. It definitely does.
Eldar [00:58:04]:
So if we know that this stuff.
Mike [00:58:06]:
Makes logical sense, you should have to.
Phillip [00:58:08]:
Have empathy for these people.
Eldar [00:58:09]:
She I'm not sure about that.
Phillip [00:58:11]:
This person who has that type of illness, they need love more than anybody else in the world.
Eldar [00:58:15]:
Sure, sure, they probably do. But more than anything, I think they need, you know.
Phillip [00:58:21]:
Oh, yeah.
Anatoliy [00:58:23]:
Education.
Mike [00:58:24]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [00:58:25]:
Oh, I think they need education.
Phillip [00:58:27]:
But now we talk about these other examples of, like, this people culture and stuff, where these type of people are more prone to sensitivity at a very high degree. So it's gonna take somebody who's very unique, like, obviously, they're a little off, right? A lot of off. But somebody who's unique to realize that when they're in that state, that they do need help, and then also to be able to. For you to be able to talk to them in a very, like, truthful manner without it being misconstrued as, like, abuse.
Eldar [00:58:59]:
Correct.
Phillip [00:58:59]:
Or, you know, anything, like, out of.
Eldar [00:59:01]:
The ordinary trolling or making fun of trolling.
Mike [00:59:03]:
Exactly.
Phillip [00:59:03]:
So, like, so the the line of that's being created now is we're gonna basically make it impossible for you to thrive.
Phillip [00:59:10]:
Like, if you're young and you're impressionable.
Phillip [00:59:12]:
Which most people are, we're gonna make you have to look a certain way.
Phillip [00:59:15]:
And to basically pursue finances a certain way. That's the two, basically examples we're using now.
Phillip [00:59:20]:
And if you don't. If you're not able to think for yourself, if you don't have a strong foundation of parents or leadership or friends around you where you can talk freely like this, your life is as you know it. The best it's gonna be is when you're four or five years old, that that's, like, where you maybe have the least amount of responsibility.
Mike [00:59:40]:
Exactly.
Anatoliy [00:59:43]:
Yeah, I'm sure for y'all there. I'm the flow state police.
Eldar [00:59:46]:
I'm the flow state police. But yeah, yeah, yeah, baby, my phone's there on you. I think you're sitting on it.
Mike [00:59:54]:
Can I get it?
Eldar [00:59:55]:
Because I have more stuff from the board. I think we even talked about what.
Katherine [00:59:59]:
You were talking to me. You were reading from your phone when.
Mike [01:00:00]:
You were sitting there. Yeah.
Eldar [01:00:05]:
Very good things. These are all very good things. And, um.
Mike [01:00:09]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:00:10]:
And as Tolie and Philip now is talking about, the next thing we. We wrote down is the world almost promotes an unexamined state.
Mike [01:00:19]:
Right. Yeah.
Phillip [01:00:20]:
It's what we're talking about.
Mike [01:00:21]:
Exactly. Yeah.
Eldar [01:00:22]:
Being more pc.
Mike [01:00:24]:
Right.
Eldar [01:00:25]:
Respecting. Respecting people's views versus preserving the truth.
Anatoliy [01:00:29]:
Hey, stop.
Eldar [01:00:31]:
Stop it, guys. No more. Go to Toli. So, being more pc, respecting. Promoting people's views versus preserving the truth.
Mike [01:00:39]:
Right.
Eldar [01:00:42]:
And you said confrontation is generally a bad thing in America, which we just talked about.
Mike [01:00:47]:
Right.
Eldar [01:00:47]:
Because it now becomes a pc argument.
Mike [01:00:52]:
Right.
Eldar [01:00:52]:
Or, like, you know, hostile, argumentative meeting where you can have kind of back and forth is no longer promoted.
Mike [01:01:01]:
Right.
Eldar [01:01:01]:
It's no longer understood.
Mike [01:01:03]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:01:03]:
You're not allowed.
Eldar [01:01:04]:
People don't have the ability to read intentions.
Mike [01:01:07]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:01:07]:
You're not allowed to challenge your. You have to accept people's odd behaviors for what they are. That's why, you know, these people are less likely to have a group of.
Phillip [01:01:18]:
Friends who is going to challenge them.
Phillip [01:01:19]:
Or is going to call them out. So that person's life, once they make that decision, it's going to be very, very hard for that person to want.
Phillip [01:01:27]:
To say, I need help, because they're basically all around them. The world is saying, like, you're fine. Like, if you're. If you have mental illness, like, it's okay to have this. Yeah, no, it's actually not.
Mike [01:01:37]:
Yeah. You have to.
Phillip [01:01:38]:
You have to say no.
Mike [01:01:40]:
Yeah. Whoa.
Phillip [01:01:41]:
Actually not.
Eldar [01:01:42]:
Wow.
Mike [01:01:42]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [01:01:43]:
You want to put a bar of soap in their mouth.
Phillip [01:01:46]:
I'm hungry. I'm really hungry.
Mike [01:01:48]:
All right. Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [01:01:50]:
Talk about any of snickers.
Mike [01:01:52]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Phillip [01:01:53]:
No, it's that.
Phillip [01:01:55]:
It's the approach of.
Eldar [01:01:57]:
It is okay, though, Phil, to have mental illness.
Mike [01:01:59]:
It is.
Eldar [01:02:00]:
Generally speaking, if you fucking want it.
Mike [01:02:02]:
If you.
Phillip [01:02:02]:
If you want a good one. If you want a good life.
Eldar [01:02:04]:
No, it's not from a place of.
Katherine [01:02:05]:
Like, shaming anybody who has mental illness.
Mike [01:02:07]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:02:07]:
If you want a good life, then.
Eldar [01:02:09]:
No, we have pc police, two guys. Yeah. Your cats are good at this.
Phillip [01:02:16]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:02:18]:
No, no.
Eldar [01:02:19]:
And I wasn't saying that for that. I'm saying that at the end of the day, you could do whatever the fuck you want. The truth of the matter is, if we gave you an equation here, right. To say that you might be under the wrong premise and the reason why you're depressed, have anxiety, and all this other crap that comes to our mind sometimes, that stays. You probably fucked something up. In your original argument, you under the wrong impression. And if you're under the wrong impression, you found yourself doing a lot of nonsense that made you ill. Listen, if that's the case and that's what you desire, then be it.
Eldar [01:02:49]:
No problem. But if you're. If you're out there complaining, saying, like, all this, and the third, there is a way out, I think, and that's through examination.
Mike [01:02:57]:
See what happens.
Phillip [01:02:58]:
What I'm seeing now through social media and all this is people are doubling down. People are doubling down on this state.
Phillip [01:03:05]:
Of milking the victim thing, really, and.
Eldar [01:03:08]:
Saying, I don't see that, because I'm not.
Phillip [01:03:11]:
It's as bad as it can.
Eldar [01:03:12]:
How do they do it?
Phillip [01:03:13]:
So let's see, like, so let's see somebody, like, I don't know, like, oh.
Eldar [01:03:19]:
Like one person starts crying about something and other people kind of, like, pile in and like, yeah, don't worry.
Mike [01:03:24]:
We understand. Right? It can be anything.
Phillip [01:03:26]:
It can be political. It can be, like, an issue about. Be like, abortion.
Phillip [01:03:29]:
It could be any of those issues, right? And it's just, um, somebody has an opinion on it, and there's no right or wrong.
Mike [01:03:35]:
It's.
Phillip [01:03:36]:
If that person gets hurt, then you.
Phillip [01:03:38]:
Basically have to, I don't know, feel bad or show them some type of feeling.
Mike [01:03:44]:
Mmm.
Phillip [01:03:45]:
So, to me, like, it's not even about talking about the issue anymore. It becomes about this person's feelings.
Eldar [01:03:50]:
How about this question? And this is a strong question. I think only you can answer it.
Phillip [01:03:53]:
Okay, go ahead.
Mike [01:03:53]:
So then why do, why do we.
Eldar [01:03:58]:
Assume that mentally ill people should be.
Mike [01:04:03]:
We should be empathetic with them?
Phillip [01:04:06]:
Why should we be empathetic when we act?
Eldar [01:04:08]:
What you're actually saying that we should be, actually need to be stronger with them and we need to actually challenge them, because the reason why they got in this mess in the first place is because they arrogantly concluded the wrong stuff.
Mike [01:04:22]:
But that's probably because the people who would stand up to those people are just as mentally ill as others.
Eldar [01:04:26]:
Holy.
Katherine [01:04:28]:
Why didn't we concluded that? I don't know about that.
Eldar [01:04:34]:
Well, the example of the money is.
Mike [01:04:36]:
The thing about the blind leading the blind. This is the sick leading the sick. We're trying to. The sick people trying to help the sick people. How can sick people help yo?
Phillip [01:04:44]:
So that person, that's gonna come from.
Phillip [01:04:46]:
That state of, like, just being really nice to that person, I'm gonna tell you.
Eldar [01:04:49]:
I'll tell you why I'm asking you this, okay? I'm gonna tell you why I'm asking you this. Because there is no good therapy out there. There's no good therapy out there that doesn't start right. First with patting you on your head, saying that, oh, it's okay, you're depressed. You know, you're experiencing this and concluding with, like, what the fuck is wrong with you? You know better.
Anatoliy [01:05:08]:
It's passive.
Phillip [01:05:08]:
It's passive aggressive.
Eldar [01:05:10]:
You see that, right? The trajectory is always passive aggressive. Get therapy right? And then the therapist will first start slow with you because they understand. A good therapist will lead you on to say, enough is enough of this.
Phillip [01:05:20]:
Right?
Mike [01:05:22]:
Gig is up.
Phillip [01:05:23]:
It does, right.
Katherine [01:05:23]:
It doesn't happen without, like, the empathy. The empathy is important, you know?
Mike [01:05:28]:
I know.
Mike [01:05:29]:
Empathy is like, a way to prolong it.
Eldar [01:05:31]:
Prolong it.
Mike [01:05:32]:
Yes.
Mike [01:05:32]:
Yeah. If you want to, like, chew it up for the baby, you chew.
Phillip [01:05:35]:
Because then you're caring ultimately about their feelings. And the feeling that they're in now is incorrect. They're incorrect.
Eldar [01:05:41]:
So we can't. We can't.
Mike [01:05:43]:
This person started the therapy session with like, are you a fucking idiot?
Phillip [01:05:46]:
They're a robot.
Eldar [01:05:47]:
The reason. The reason they don't have method is because you an idiot.
Phillip [01:05:49]:
So. And I totally.
Mike [01:05:51]:
Are you here for the truth? Are you here to be, baby?
Phillip [01:05:54]:
Well, we were touching on also, I think totally said it, too.
Phillip [01:05:56]:
This person doesn't know how to feel actual things. So when this person. You're saying, oh, let me watch out for this person's feelings, they actually don't know what they are from, like, the truth.
Eldar [01:06:06]:
Calling them stupid.
Phillip [01:06:08]:
From a feeling perspective, a hundred percent.
Eldar [01:06:10]:
Okay. I agree with you. Yeah, you said it, though.
Phillip [01:06:14]:
So you trying to hurt their feelings. You're actually breaking their pattern, which is positive.
Eldar [01:06:18]:
That is correct. Yeah, that is correct. And I'm saying that in therapy, that is the goal.
Mike [01:06:23]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:06:23]:
Especially a good therapist will take you on a slow little ride to the kindergarten first and then start to graduate you slowly.
Mike [01:06:29]:
Exactly. Right.
Eldar [01:06:30]:
To make you ultimately have the ability to call yourself an idiot.
Mike [01:06:34]:
Right.
Eldar [01:06:34]:
Because they can't professionally say, but they.
Phillip [01:06:37]:
Do it over a 1215 session thing.
Phillip [01:06:39]:
So they make a lot of money, us doing it right here. We're gonna be like, yo, you're a fucking idiot, bro.
Mike [01:06:44]:
Yes. Yes.
Phillip [01:06:45]:
One session with us, 20 minutes.
Mike [01:06:47]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:06:48]:
And I think there's a reason yourself and we.
Mike [01:06:51]:
As.
Anatoliy [01:06:51]:
For long as. How much is your budget.
Mike [01:06:55]:
Yeah. Come to us. Yeah.
Anatoliy [01:07:03]:
You gotta tell him right away.
Eldar [01:07:04]:
Yeah, right away. We're gonna get to the same 20 minutes.
Mike [01:07:08]:
Done.
Eldar [01:07:08]:
The conclusions are the same.
Mike [01:07:10]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [01:07:10]:
For everyone living in poverty.
Eldar [01:07:12]:
We're perfect for you.
Phillip [01:07:13]:
Just bring us some gift cards to our favorite place. Can we plug it? Houston's NTA.
Mike [01:07:22]:
Okay.
Phillip [01:07:23]:
Yeah, yeah. We want gifts.
Anatoliy [01:07:25]:
You can afford the slow and steady.
Mike [01:07:26]:
Approach.
Katherine [01:07:29]:
Or Patreon, where they can, like, you know, send us.
Eldar [01:07:32]:
Let's see. I think everything we're saying here is correct.
Phillip [01:07:37]:
Very correct.
Mike [01:07:38]:
But some people may have found the.
Eldar [01:07:42]:
Truth of the matter is the gig itself. Ah, the famous comedian, right? Menace Kalco, right. Or whatever. He said, like, you know, there was no, there was no mental illness around there. You know what I mean? Cuz Johnny's acting, this was like, because he's acting strange. You know what I mean? Like, the italian families were so outspoken. It's like everybody knew everybody. Everybody knows everything.
Eldar [01:08:10]:
All the gossip, all the stuff. There's gonna be like, if you get out of hand, that's it. They're gonna call you out on this.
Mike [01:08:14]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:08:15]:
And that's kind of the thing that also we kind of talking about. But, yeah, it's not through bullying, but more so to care.
Phillip [01:08:19]:
And it's funny because in those examples, he would talk about his in laws, and they were the opposite. Nobody knew what the fuck was going on. Yeah, we're like, he was making examples where he said, like, I would call my sister, she would call me like, yo, did you hear this?
Mike [01:08:32]:
Blah, blah, blah.
Phillip [01:08:32]:
Like, we know everything about, like, our family. There's no secrets.
Phillip [01:08:35]:
And in a way, you can look.
Phillip [01:08:36]:
At that as like, oh, maybe it's a little invasive.
Phillip [01:08:38]:
It's a little much.
Phillip [01:08:39]:
But, like, this, this person, look, okay. They became financially successful. They seem like, you know, they have humor about, you know, some, like, weird situation, so. Okay, good. And then it looks at the other family and you're saying to yourself, like, if you don't know what's going on, and you're just saying like, oh, you.
Phillip [01:08:53]:
Know, it was really nice to see you, and, like, maybe you really hate that person.
Mike [01:08:57]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:08:58]:
Like, Matt, like I've said, this is, this is very common in, like, a lot of families. We're like, you just don't know where.
Phillip [01:09:03]:
You stand, and it's very fake. I think that's more dangerous than the other.
Mike [01:09:07]:
I agree.
Phillip [01:09:07]:
So you can have, like, a thick skin on, you know, being with the maniscalco type family where all your flaws are being pointed out.
Mike [01:09:16]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:09:16]:
But I think you grow quicker out of that. Like, in terms of, like, you know, maybe feeling insecure about something at the.
Eldar [01:09:22]:
End of the day, if it's family, right? And if their intent is to better you, because, like, if, you know, they find out. I don't know, your breath stinks. Like, your breath stinks.
Mike [01:09:32]:
Right.
Eldar [01:09:32]:
Or brush your teeth kind of thing. You know what I mean? They want the best for you. Number one. They don't want it to be out about now, but they also. They want to make sure that you're fucking a normal, decent person of society, too.
Phillip [01:09:42]:
But imagine this is gonna, like, if.
Phillip [01:09:43]:
You go the opposite route, which is the other family, his wife's family, you wouldn't know that your breast smells. Then you're gonna be in a relationship, and then, like, maybe she doesn't tell you, or maybe she does. And then all of a sudden, the.
Phillip [01:09:53]:
First time you became, like, aware that you had bad breath, you were in a relationship with somebody you love and then, like, making them feel bad.
Mike [01:10:00]:
You know what I mean?
Phillip [01:10:00]:
Or like.
Eldar [01:10:01]:
Or that. Or not even get into a relationship because.
Mike [01:10:03]:
Oh, yeah.
Katherine [01:10:03]:
Maybe you get a girlfriend.
Phillip [01:10:04]:
Maybe you don't even get one.
Katherine [01:10:05]:
You never knew about your bad breath.
Mike [01:10:07]:
Exactly.
Phillip [01:10:08]:
You need a tongue scraper.
Eldar [01:10:09]:
So if you have that anteater nose, use it before you lose it.
Katherine [01:10:16]:
You should make all of the.
Phillip [01:10:18]:
We found out that totally spirit animals. Anteater.
Mike [01:10:22]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:10:22]:
He actually likes that animal. Yeah.
Katherine [01:10:24]:
Can you explain?
Eldar [01:10:25]:
Well, do you know how anteater looks and all?
Phillip [01:10:28]:
He wants to fit his beak into the hummingbird feeder.
Mike [01:10:32]:
That's what he wants.
Phillip [01:10:33]:
He was jealous that the sugar water was outside for the animals.
Phillip [01:10:36]:
He wanted to swipe it up, and they wanted to swig it for himself.
Mike [01:10:39]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:10:39]:
He's an anteater because he's got a long beak.
Phillip [01:10:42]:
Oh, I didn't change that out. Should I do that today or Monday?
Eldar [01:10:45]:
If you don't want the birds to be sick, you should definitely change it out today.
Phillip [01:10:48]:
Yeah, I'm gonna do it right now.
Eldar [01:10:51]:
You don't have to do it now.
Mike [01:10:55]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:10:56]:
Here, you give me that, Zelda.
Eldar [01:10:58]:
So. So, guys, if you understood what I said, right? I don't want to say it.
Katherine [01:11:03]:
I don't disagree with the approach. I just don't think it's the approach for everybody, which makes sense.
Mike [01:11:08]:
Yeah. It's not for those who want to.
Eldar [01:11:10]:
Succeed that don't want to succeed.
Mike [01:11:13]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Katherine [01:11:15]:
So you. So you. What are you saying?
Mike [01:11:20]:
Is that.
Katherine [01:11:22]:
Listen, is that the wrong choice? Am I. Am I not improving and feeling better?
Mike [01:11:28]:
So conclude.
Eldar [01:11:29]:
And to be honest with you, because you're my wife, and I could say this to you straight up, without you. Really not, you know, my intentions.
Katherine [01:11:35]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:11:35]:
Um, you would say, no, you're on therapy because you fucked up for sure.
Mike [01:11:43]:
Wait for the function like, oh, there's more.
Mike [01:11:45]:
Okay. Right. And then. And then if.
Eldar [01:11:48]:
If I was to fast forward everything, I'd say that, you know, I'll probably pin all the. All the negative things like anger, jealousy, control, all the other stuff onto it that at some point or the other, you've experienced or dabbled or got stuck in those states for prolonged periods of time, and that's why you experience and what you're experiencing. No way around it.
Katherine [01:12:13]:
But I'm not questioning.
Mike [01:12:14]:
No, that's not.
Katherine [01:12:14]:
I'm not questioning that.
Mike [01:12:15]:
Yeah.
Katherine [01:12:16]:
I'm just saying, you. You. This whole time, you've been talking about the approach that needs, that you believe is the right approach for people.
Mike [01:12:23]:
Yeah.
Katherine [01:12:23]:
You know, to open their eyes or whatever.
Mike [01:12:25]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:12:26]:
No, what I'm saying is that, yeah, I think that, uh, you know, sure, people definitely experience mental. Mental illness and stuff like that, and they do experience suffering and stuff like that, and they do need help.
Katherine [01:12:39]:
I agree with that.
Eldar [01:12:42]:
But based on what we deduced here, I'm not sure if the soft approach.
Mike [01:12:46]:
Is actually the approach that is gonna.
Eldar [01:12:48]:
Get them there faster.
Phillip [01:12:51]:
My understanding would be you might get.
Phillip [01:12:53]:
To the same part, maybe after x amount of sessions with this person, and.
Phillip [01:12:58]:
They maybe have that, you know, they make you.
Mike [01:13:01]:
Did.
Eldar [01:13:01]:
She already did? Yes, I command her. She already did.
Phillip [01:13:04]:
So she got to that point.
Eldar [01:13:04]:
She walks around and tells her so. Tells me when she did does something wrong, she says right away, I'm stupid.
Phillip [01:13:09]:
Okay, so she already got there. So she got to the point where. Humbling. Humbling.
Mike [01:13:13]:
Right. Yes.
Phillip [01:13:14]:
But I think what we're saying is that you can probably get there a lot quicker when you have more honest approaches.
Eldar [01:13:18]:
Yes. And I'm gonna tell you right now, and it's hard to hear. It's hard to hear, but it's almost as clear to me as possible. But mental illness is tied very closely.
Mike [01:13:32]:
To stupidity and lack of honesty.
Katherine [01:13:35]:
I think it's a lack of honesty. But you know what? Like, a person doesn't change until they're ready for it. You know? Think about what you've known. Elder and I didn't start therapy until two years ago, even though you've been next to me.
Mike [01:13:48]:
Yeah.
Katherine [01:13:49]:
Very honestly, just like you're speaking in this podcast, how you are as genuine and honest as you are.
Eldar [01:13:54]:
No, I bit my tongue many times. I know you're soft and you're very sensitive and stuff like that.
Mike [01:14:01]:
You.
Eldar [01:14:01]:
You definitely developed a much thicker skin now, and I can definitely be more honest than myself, but trust me, there's a lot of times where you took a very personal, and I had to take back.
Katherine [01:14:08]:
Yeah, I wasn't myself, but that also had to, that also had to do with where I was mentally at that time. That's why.
Mike [01:14:15]:
Yeah, I couldn't just.
Eldar [01:14:16]:
I couldn't tell you that you're stupid.
Katherine [01:14:17]:
No.
Eldar [01:14:18]:
Now you're saying yourself that you stupid, and that's great.
Mike [01:14:20]:
But, yeah.
Katherine [01:14:23]:
There'S so many angles to healing and to awareness and to trying to better yourself. That, like, that's why I do believe it takes time. It took time for me to get here. And I have a question the right way.
Mike [01:14:38]:
How can you start to heal if you don't face the truth? If you wanna.
Eldar [01:14:42]:
Impossible.
Mike [01:14:43]:
If you want.
Katherine [01:14:44]:
No, I'm not denying.
Mike [01:14:45]:
No, I'm not just saying. You're saying healing. But the people who are in the process of saying they want to heal, they want to go to therapy. The thing is, what, what the therapy does, it gives you a small dose of the truth, just so it's like, you know, not to offend you, not to offend your ego, not to let your pride flare up, for example. But the dose, the remedy is actually facing the truth about yourself, you know? And. And a lot of people have a hard time taking that in, though.
Katherine [01:15:15]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:15:15]:
You know, we're saying this. We're saying it in different ways.
Mike [01:15:18]:
We're just.
Phillip [01:15:18]:
We're saying prolonging the inevitable in all these different ways. So I think, Cat, what you're saying is that you did get to the same point everybody.
Phillip [01:15:25]:
I think what maybe we're not.
Phillip [01:15:29]:
I guess what we're not agreeing with.
Phillip [01:15:30]:
Is that you're eventually gonna have to have to hear this truth. You got it at, like, towards the end, and this approach for you, like, worked, and it, like, enabled you to get there. But we're saying that eventually, you're gonna have to get there.
Mike [01:15:44]:
Right?
Phillip [01:15:45]:
So, like, for sure. So if you're in a group like this and you're talking, you're gonna have to face that thing. So, like, the approach to me is kind of irrelevant because you got to take the truth.
Katherine [01:15:54]:
I feel like that's what I'm saying. Yeah, no approach might work. We're saying we're, you know, like, I feel like my first therapist, but he was. She was an eldar, you know, she would just deliver. She was not soft with me at all.
Mike [01:16:08]:
Mmm.
Katherine [01:16:08]:
And it worked for me. And now the one that I have now, but she's a lot more gentle, and it works for me, too, you know?
Mike [01:16:15]:
But if you have the choice in the matter, right. If you had a choice in the matter, would you, outside of, like, your pride, ego, would you prefer to know the truth on day one, moment one, or would you prefer to extend it? If you know that you can uncover the truth, would you prefer.
Katherine [01:16:28]:
This is what I'm disagreeing with, is how you guys are kind of. You guys are putting it in a box, and I don't. The way I see it, it's not like that. It's not so.
Mike [01:16:35]:
No, I understand. I understand. It's not that simple.
Katherine [01:16:38]:
Things that, like, Catherine, you have so much.
Mike [01:16:40]:
I get that. It's not. It's definitely not simple that way. I'm just talking about in a hypothetical world. World. Would you prefer that if that you were able to actually hear the truth, face the truth, and then all in one shot.
Katherine [01:16:53]:
I know in one session all the things that you have wrong?
Mike [01:16:59]:
I don't think I could. You could do it.
Katherine [01:17:01]:
No. Look, guys, this is how, like, the way I saw it was. I was completely overwhelmed. I sought help. And, you know, for a therapist who does not know you, to slowly, like, you know, allow you to. You have to build trust and actually be. You have to start with honesty. If you're not being honest with them, then they cannot understand you or what you're going through.
Katherine [01:17:24]:
Right. And now they have to slowly allow you to understand what the hell it is that you're going through. They see it. Oh, this person is depressed. This person has anxiety. They're overwhelmed. They're this, they're that. But now they have to.
Katherine [01:17:36]:
They can't tell. They don't tell it to you. They make you. So the thing is, I think, is that I developed awareness because she helped me. Like, she allowed me to develop my own self awareness. I can't get to the steps of bettering myself if without the self awareness. Do you know what I mean? Like, there is a step.
Mike [01:17:54]:
No, no, I get.
Katherine [01:17:56]:
So that's why I don't think it's a matter of, like, you're gonna hit me with everything at once, and then, like, I'm gonna be lost. I think there's a reason for those steps. I believe hundred percent. I think now I do believe that every single therapist.
Mike [01:18:09]:
Yeah.
Katherine [01:18:09]:
Might have their own ways. He's a counselor.
Mike [01:18:11]:
Yeah.
Katherine [01:18:12]:
He knows. This is his way. Every counselor is different. I can tell you. I've had only two plus elder, and they're extremely different people and different approaches.
Mike [01:18:20]:
Yeah.
Katherine [01:18:20]:
And they all are great, you know? So, yeah.
Mike [01:18:24]:
As a person who's already uncovered the truth and had to humble themselves.
Katherine [01:18:27]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:18:28]:
Right.
Mike [01:18:28]:
On multiple occasions about your own flaws.
Katherine [01:18:30]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:18:31]:
Would you not say, like, hey, next time, when I'm in a situation where I'm suffering, wouldn't I like to crack it faster where I like to understand it faster?
Katherine [01:18:39]:
I.
Mike [01:18:39]:
Instead of like that.
Katherine [01:18:41]:
I can agree with. I have told elder many times, I wish I would have started therapy a lot sooner so that I would have started maybe living, just living.
Mike [01:18:50]:
And that's kind of what. That's kind of what I'm saying. That's what I'm calling for, like, because we're known each other for a long, you know, long enough time, I think.
Mike [01:18:58]:
Right.
Katherine [01:18:58]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:18:58]:
And even though it's hard to sometimes to hear from your friends, to be honest with you, to say, like, hey, you're a piece of shit, and you have to actually believe it, you know?
Katherine [01:19:06]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:19:06]:
I think it's very important because the reason you don't think you're a piece of shit because you have a big ego and what's going on.
Eldar [01:19:13]:
We go back to the argument of the fact that what totally said the world is promoting, and Philip said this, promoting the opposite.
Mike [01:19:19]:
Right? Yes. PC.
Eldar [01:19:20]:
Calm down. Don't say this.
Mike [01:19:22]:
Right.
Eldar [01:19:22]:
What we're saying that. Get into a fucking fight.
Mike [01:19:25]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:19:26]:
You're a piece of shit. Now you got to tell me what the fuck you mean, I'm a piece of shit. Explain yourself. Explain yourself.
Mike [01:19:32]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:19:32]:
And then you have to get into that argument, and somebody's gonna come out.
Mike [01:19:35]:
Out of it.
Eldar [01:19:35]:
Either you're gonna convince me that you're not a piece of shit, or I'm gonna convince you that what you did was a piece of shit. You know what I'm saying? And then we're gonna get somewhere that push and pull and the people that have the ability to do that.
Mike [01:19:45]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:19:46]:
Creates magic, I think.
Katherine [01:19:47]:
I think it's really hard.
Mike [01:19:48]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:19:49]:
That's why fights are important by fight also, because.
Mike [01:19:52]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:19:53]:
Because fights are primitive way description of that.
Mike [01:19:58]:
Yeah.
Katherine [01:19:59]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:19:59]:
I picture Mike going into a therapy office.
Phillip [01:20:02]:
He discovers the truth, like, after one session, and then he goes out to tea with the therapy, and then he starts to put the therapist in a therapy session himself. And he becomes the therapist.
Mike [01:20:13]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:20:13]:
And then she or he.
Mike [01:20:15]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:20:15]:
Like, it's over for them.
Eldar [01:20:16]:
It's over.
Phillip [01:20:17]:
And then they have to rethink their degree and everything, and. And then they rip it off the wall, and then they move to, like, an ashram and wherever, and then they. Then they follow Mike. Is this what happens?
Eldar [01:20:26]:
Or. Yo, that's a t shirt.
Mike [01:20:39]:
That's his temple.
Eldar [01:20:41]:
My temple is useless.
Mike [01:20:43]:
Temple.
Phillip [01:20:44]:
Houston's my temple.
Mike [01:20:46]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:20:46]:
Put dot, dot might.
Mike [01:20:47]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:20:49]:
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Mike [01:20:52]:
All right.
Phillip [01:20:52]:
We figured it out.
Mike [01:20:53]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:20:53]:
You seen this?
Phillip [01:20:54]:
We cracked the code.
Katherine [01:20:59]:
Do you know what I wanted to add to that about my cracking the code? I think that you've had so many years of, like, having these discussions and awareness alongside with elder that. That has brought you and empowered you to. To be the person that you are today and to have the awareness that you have today. So I feel like that, to me, like, just further convinces me about. It's almost in the sense, like, what.
Mike [01:21:21]:
I'm saying about therapy, about other, is I'm not.
Eldar [01:21:24]:
I have nothing against therapy.
Mike [01:21:25]:
No.
Eldar [01:21:26]:
I'm just trying to.
Mike [01:21:27]:
I'm trying to explain.
Eldar [01:21:28]:
I was just trying to explain the process of therapy and what actually happens. It transpires the end result is the end result. Like I said, in a good therapy, they're going to bring you to the truth, to the light, and then you. It's going to be your truth, your light, and you're going to start bringing yourself to the truth in the light. It's the same thing. So what I'm saying is that if we uncovered. If we uncovered. This is what I'm saying.
Mike [01:21:49]:
Right?
Eldar [01:21:50]:
Don't get me wrong here. If we uncovered that, being ignorant long enough, being ignorant and then putting actions behind that ignorance to just to confirm that, you know, this ignorance causes mental illness. Ignorance, stupidity is the fucking cause of mental illness. And then coupled with anger, pride.
Mike [01:22:12]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:22:12]:
Ego, it's resentment. All those things will continue to fuel this wrong.
Anatoliy [01:22:21]:
Ignorance. Ignorance and stupidity is what.
Mike [01:22:23]:
Is the beginning, is the beginning. Right.
Eldar [01:22:26]:
Then coupled with actions is the.
Anatoliy [01:22:30]:
Stupidity is a catalyst.
Eldar [01:22:32]:
Catalyst, yes. Which then drives the. The drives the shit, you know? You know.
Mike [01:22:37]:
Yes.
Anatoliy [01:22:38]:
So, yeah. Like, if you have a stock, right.
Mike [01:22:41]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [01:22:41]:
And then the catalyst is ignorance and supaid. Then, like, whoever runs the stock, which is, for example, you.
Mike [01:22:46]:
You.
Anatoliy [01:22:47]:
All the shareholders like, you. You hold on yourself.
Mike [01:22:49]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [01:22:49]:
You said we're gonna hire CEO and he's just gonna hit his head against the wall going forward. It's our plan to bring the world electric cars or something.
Mike [01:22:59]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [01:22:59]:
You're gonna do and say stupid shit.
Mike [01:23:01]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [01:23:01]:
That you think will lead to so particular things.
Eldar [01:23:04]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the difference is. The difference is having a different conclusion.
Mike [01:23:08]:
Right.
Eldar [01:23:09]:
And not acting on it is this is the. Is the gap between actually developing mental illness because you don't have attachment. You have to be attached to the fucking ignorant statement that you're making because.
Mike [01:23:20]:
Yeah, you have the one thing, either stupidity or the truth. Correct. There's correct.
Eldar [01:23:25]:
Two options.
Phillip [01:23:25]:
And are you willing to hear somebody else point it out in you, or do you have.
Eldar [01:23:29]:
That's a different question.
Phillip [01:23:30]:
I'm just saying, do you have. Do you have that person? Is it a therapist? Is there friends, is a family member?
Eldar [01:23:34]:
Are you.
Phillip [01:23:35]:
Are you willing to hear that that's.
Eldar [01:23:36]:
The truth we're talking about? See, what you just said is a good way to introduce therapy in the first place. What he said.
Mike [01:23:41]:
A lot of people don't even know.
Eldar [01:23:41]:
What the fuck therapy is.
Mike [01:23:42]:
I think.
Phillip [01:23:43]:
Yes.
Mike [01:23:43]:
Right.
Eldar [01:23:43]:
What he said is very important. Are you ready to hear the fucking truth about your stupidity?
Phillip [01:23:49]:
You see what he said?
Katherine [01:23:50]:
Immense humility.
Mike [01:23:52]:
Yeah.
Katherine [01:23:52]:
To. To first get your lady which to be vulnerable. You have. It's very courage. It's a very courageous thing to actually be vulnerable.
Eldar [01:23:59]:
Right.
Katherine [01:23:59]:
And you have to be extremely humble. It is very humbling to sit in that chair.
Eldar [01:24:04]:
Why is it humbling?
Katherine [01:24:05]:
And talk about yourself. Honesty, honestly, and admit all your sales.
Mike [01:24:09]:
You have to say stupid shit.
Katherine [01:24:11]:
Listen, you have to admit.
Eldar [01:24:12]:
You understand what an idiot you have. Your whole fucking plan, your whole. It's fucking dead. And you're fucking idiot, you know?
Phillip [01:24:25]:
Yeah, it's.
Katherine [01:24:26]:
It's. I feel like.
Eldar [01:24:30]:
I mean, you know, I'm doing something. Please tell me I'm a fucking.
Mike [01:24:36]:
Yeah, but I think. I think you.
Eldar [01:24:37]:
I don't want to end up. I don't want to end up in a therapy session. Not because therapies don't work. I don't want to fucking prolong the pain.
Phillip [01:24:44]:
So I have theory. I have a therapy insight, though.
Mike [01:24:46]:
So.
Phillip [01:24:47]:
So I was gonna ask you, Kat. So I went to a bunch of different therapies. Like, all different ones. Regression therapy, just talk therapy. All these different ones.
Mike [01:24:54]:
Right.
Mike [01:24:54]:
Shock therapy.
Phillip [01:24:55]:
Shock therapy, obviously.
Phillip [01:24:58]:
So after all these therapies. So what my conclusion is, I wanna see if you agree with this, is that what you're getting is like short.
Phillip [01:25:08]:
Like short term, small, little doses. Meaning when you go to the session, dosas or doses?
Eldar [01:25:15]:
Both dosas.
Phillip [01:25:18]:
So you're basically going into a bubble that you have the relationship with you and your therapist. You can go in there and you're doing these things, but then once you leave, unless you have a group like this or you work with people, your family, most of these people that go into this therapy session, they're getting these problems from their environment. Their environment is work, their friends, their family, all these things. So what I was noticing was that, like, I had to almost separate myself from a lot of these things.
Eldar [01:25:44]:
Nobody's checking you on those.
Phillip [01:25:45]:
Nobody's because nobody's checking me on a lot of these things.
Phillip [01:25:47]:
Right.
Phillip [01:25:48]:
So then what happens is then you go by yourself, and then you become isolated. And this is my personal example, but I think this can be maybe normal for a lot of other people, is that you try to separate from a lot of the people that you thought were causing these things, and then you're actually realizing that you're built to not maybe face these things properly at all. So I think what the therapy does, unless the therapy can work, if you have a really good environment, but if you have a really good environment, why would you be going to therapy? So, to me, it's like I found, like, I was, like, caught up in this, like, kind of weird realm of, like, when I'm by myself, I'm okay, but I'm not really doing anything because, like, I'm not surrounded around, like, the right people outside. So, like, a good therapist would probably say, like, yeah, I'm gonna give you all these friends, and I'm gonna give you, like, a new relationship and, like, a new life, like, doing these little things and going back into your environment.
Phillip [01:26:44]:
I just didn't see any of the benefit.
Phillip [01:26:47]:
So I think you're a product of, like, having a really good environment, having somebody, like, an eldar and, like, a strong guy and, like, maybe strong friends in your life. So I'm not saying that the therapy doesn't work because I did it, and I definitely got some insight from it, but I look at it, I did this a long time ago, and I.
Phillip [01:27:03]:
Say, I'd say what I learned here, which is with you guys, probably in.
Phillip [01:27:07]:
Five or six weeks, like, I'm getting patterns broken down already in five or six weeks that you go to therapy for two, three years, and then after, like, five or six years, you're like, wait. I'm finding myself in the same type of relationship, same type of job, same type of, you know, outcomes. Like, why is it not changing? Because to me, the temp, the therapy can be very, very temporary for me, unless you start to change who you are and then get new environment and new people around.
Anatoliy [01:27:36]:
It's also not, do you see this or no, profitable for it to be permanently changed?
Katherine [01:27:39]:
Answer that, I was going to give you. So the only way therapy works is if you do the work right. And I am really lucky to, like, to be surrounded with not just elder, but just this group here, you know, in general. However, however, that's not the reality for most people. And my other relationships aren't exactly perfect. Like, I'll, you know, give the example. My relationship with my mom. I have a great moment, but we butt head a lot.
Katherine [01:28:09]:
We butt heads a lot. So that has been one of the main relationships that I have worked on through therapy. And the only way I improve that relationship with my mom and I is by doing the work. To answer your question, my therapists have given me tools to change my thought process, like my thought process or, you know, certain things like my cognitive behavior. And when I use those tools, I can change the world around me. I can change my relationships for the better, but that's only if I do the work. The work is hard. I don't, I don't know if everyone is doing the work.
Katherine [01:28:50]:
You know, like, I'm actually learning tools and tools to recognize my incorrect thought patterns. You know what I mean? Like, I have negative thinking. I have black and white thinking, which is either, like, things are really good or really bad. There's, like, no in between, no gray area. So I tend to over generalize. I've had to change my negative thought patterns. Like, you literally have to sit there and self audit your thoughts and, and try to defy, like, kind of define, is this a good thought or is this a bad thought? Like, it's hard work to sit there all day and then realize, like, holy moly, I'm just producing a bunch of, like, shit thoughts. Like, I'm just gonna drive.
Katherine [01:29:34]:
I'm driving myself so easy.
Phillip [01:29:36]:
So I guess my question is then.
Phillip [01:29:37]:
Like, do you think that if you.
Phillip [01:29:39]:
Get that blueprint and you're self auditing and you're doing all these things, do you think that you can do this on your own by, say, like, you know, if you, if you have to be, maybe living with your mom, living with your dad, brother, sister, cousins, friends and stuff that, like, don't support you, that, like, don't. That, um, you know, uh, don't want you to succeed.
Phillip [01:30:00]:
Maybe you're jealous, they're envious of you.
Phillip [01:30:02]:
They don't like you, or whatever it may be. So if you're just doing this self work in that type of environment is, do you, do you think that, um, I guess you can just do it.
Phillip [01:30:11]:
On, on your own and then maybe.
Anatoliy [01:30:12]:
You can do it and then, like.
Phillip [01:30:14]:
You maybe just grow a new group.
Phillip [01:30:16]:
And, like, new environment, new friends, that's.
Eldar [01:30:18]:
Most likely you ban those people most likely.
Katherine [01:30:21]:
So what you're. What's gonna happen is you're gonna become stronger, you're gonna become more confident in yourself.
Mike [01:30:26]:
Right.
Katherine [01:30:27]:
And you're gonna become a lot better at setting boundaries. And what happens is, as you slowly start setting boundaries, the relationship with that person changes. It changes for the better. But what happens is when you start setting boundaries, you might start seeing that either that person will stay or that person will go. So in, in, like, in. In general, I think that the people that are not really providing you. How do I say this correctly, where you will almost edit people out of your life?
Phillip [01:30:57]:
Oh, wait, I just got it.
Mike [01:30:58]:
Okay.
Phillip [01:30:58]:
No, I'm hearing you.
Mike [01:30:59]:
So this.
Phillip [01:31:00]:
I just got it.
Phillip [01:31:00]:
So I think what we're talking about.
Phillip [01:31:03]:
I think we're talking about people learning in different ways. So I think it seems like you definitely are getting more out of therapy than I did, but it doesn't mean that it's wrong. I think that I learn more in front of people like this that I'm just talking to on a day to day basis versus going to somebody that maybe I thought as a professional, maybe this is one on one. I like that during the course of the day that we can just have these conversations, go on walks, like, yeah, I think it's.
Katherine [01:31:32]:
Everyone have a different, like, a different style.
Phillip [01:31:35]:
Is it a style thing?
Eldar [01:31:37]:
Yeah, it's not that it's style. I think it's a very specific thing, a phenomena that happens when you in the room with one other person and you can only do it with that person. You know that it's confidential, shit's not gonna leak. So you can actually open up a little bit more.
Phillip [01:31:52]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:31:52]:
Okay.
Eldar [01:31:53]:
What happens? A lot of the times, I think it's the ego that flares up and doesn't have the ability to actually open up.
Mike [01:31:58]:
Right.
Eldar [01:31:59]:
Especially in settings like this.
Mike [01:32:00]:
Right? Yeah.
Eldar [01:32:01]:
So if you're not humble enough, you don't have enough humility, you don't have the same ability to take advantage of a group like this, where you're gonna expose your ass. We're gonna say your ass is dirty.
Mike [01:32:11]:
Right?
Phillip [01:32:11]:
Right.
Katherine [01:32:11]:
That's why I will always say, if you're not humble, then you can't go through this change.
Phillip [01:32:16]:
Right?
Katherine [01:32:16]:
You're not, because you're not going to be looking at yourself the right way. You're not looking at your ego and identifying and saying, oh, like, my ego is bad and it's keeping me from growth. If you don't have that, you. I don't think you can.
Mike [01:32:28]:
Okay.
Katherine [01:32:28]:
You can do this.
Eldar [01:32:30]:
So each is own because of the fact that everybody in a different stage of their own development.
Mike [01:32:34]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:32:34]:
You don't know. You don't know where your ego, your pride, your people pleasing, all this other stuff.
Katherine [01:32:40]:
And we say right now that Philip is right now in a different place than he was maybe a few years ago when he was trying a therapy.
Mike [01:32:48]:
Oh.
Phillip [01:32:48]:
And it was even before that.
Phillip [01:32:49]:
So I would agree that I probably wasn't in a humility.
Katherine [01:32:52]:
Yeah, maybe you weren't in the right moment, or you weren't. You thought you were ready, but you actually weren't. To, you know, to face yourself or to work on yourself or whatever the.
Eldar [01:33:00]:
Case was or have the ability to be able to be honest in this type of a setting where you. You can be called, like, also just.
Katherine [01:33:09]:
Like, comfortable enough to be yourself. You know, a lot of times, we're not. I'm finding that now through therapy and to, like, you know, expressing myself more and learning how to be more of myself, my friends are, in a sense, kind of meeting a different person, you know, because I was very closed. I was very closed off, very private. I didn't even, like, know how to process my emotions properly. And when I started therapy, my friend started telling me, like, katherine, like, you're changing. Like, this is. This is new.
Katherine [01:33:40]:
Like, we're not used to this. Like, you're. You're. You're. You're so much more open. You're. You're. You know, you're more vulnerable.
Katherine [01:33:46]:
And what happened was my. My friendship started changing, because when I started opening up and, like, opening up like this, almost, like, this new part of me, they were responding right back. And I've noticed that with one particular friend, like, we've gotten closer simply because I'm changing.
Eldar [01:34:02]:
So yourself on the world, you change.
Katherine [01:34:04]:
And the world changes. That's why, you know, like, I change myself. And I have bettered the relationship with my mom. It's not perfect, but it's better. And the friendships that don't belong in your life or the people that don't belong in your life, well, like, it just kind of happens organically where they just don't. You know, I didn't go on this, like, list of, like, you know what? I don't want to talk to this one, and I don't want. No.
Phillip [01:34:24]:
So would you consider this, like, would you consider this, like. Like, therapy in a sense? Like, because I consider this, like, therapy, but I don't call it therapy. Like, we're talking about it now, but, like, it's like, I guess therapeutic to do it like. Like this. Like, do you consider this therapy with.
Katherine [01:34:38]:
A lot of crassness? Like, it's. It's very, you know.
Phillip [01:34:41]:
Yeah.
Katherine [01:34:41]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:34:43]:
Even though, like, Catherine's been here for longer than you, for example, not sure if she's benefiting the same way or as much as you are from this being here. What's his name?
Katherine [01:34:55]:
I was around for a longer time.
Eldar [01:34:58]:
I can even tell you that, for example, the guys will bite their tongues about certain things that they say to Catherine because they feel and they know that she can't handle certain truths that totally can. Straight up. She's more sensitive, you understand? And why is that? Because she starts feeling a certain type of way. Her ego starts flaring up, her pride, her anger, and stuff like that. So we can't even say certain things because it won't land the same way. If you come across more with humility and being humble, we can open up and be the best that we can be. Yes or no?
Anatoliy [01:35:30]:
Yeah, yeah, we can bully you.
Katherine [01:35:32]:
And there's. There's a certain part of what keeps me from that has always been, like, there's, like, a certain line that I don't want to cross when it comes to, like, certain respect, you know? Like, there's. There's a really fine line between, like, just being like, yeah, I don't know.
Mike [01:35:47]:
And that's.
Eldar [01:35:47]:
That's so, like, that's your preference, and you get what you will, you put out into the world.
Mike [01:35:51]:
Just.
Katherine [01:35:51]:
Yeah, for sure.
Eldar [01:35:52]:
She puts out over there with the friends who puts out here. That's what she gets in return.
Mike [01:35:56]:
Got it.
Eldar [01:35:56]:
This is her journey.
Katherine [01:35:57]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:35:57]:
Everybody definitely has their own journey, honestly.
Katherine [01:35:59]:
Like, being completely open like that with someone who is not part of my life, who has no attachment to me, no bias, nothing. It's very refreshing. Like, it's a completely different, like, world that I have separately that I.
Phillip [01:36:15]:
And that.
Phillip [01:36:15]:
That's how I looked at it.
Phillip [01:36:16]:
That's what I was saying before. It is a separate little world. Then when you come out of that world, that's why I was saying, unless you have everything else like this, like, that's.
Mike [01:36:24]:
That's.
Phillip [01:36:24]:
That's really, like, there for you and supporting you versus, like, the people that were probably putting you there in the first place would just see, I guess.
Phillip [01:36:34]:
The therapy as, um.
Phillip [01:36:36]:
Like, I guess, really tough to, like, fully benefit from wraparound services. That's what I'm saying. Unless it's a wraparound. That's what I'm saying.
Katherine [01:36:44]:
Supplement to my therapy. Yeah, they're both, like, they both coexist. No, like, they both supplement.
Phillip [01:36:52]:
We're like a vitamin. Like, we're like a b twelve shot or a b twelve shot.
Mike [01:36:57]:
Ginger extra.
Phillip [01:36:58]:
We're a ginger ginger root.
Katherine [01:37:04]:
We just established that my, my therapist is kind of like my main source for. For growth.
Eldar [01:37:08]:
Right.
Katherine [01:37:09]:
But this is okay. However he wants to call at the end of the day, she herself tells me, Katherine, you're really lucky to have that support system. And you're like, I know it. You know, not everybody.
Mike [01:37:17]:
If she.
Phillip [01:37:18]:
If she came here, there's one thing you said, therapy's over. We would scare out of the.
Katherine [01:37:27]:
There's one thing that you said, though, that you said that the people that put me in therapy, I put me in therapy. Do you know what I mean?
Mike [01:37:37]:
Oh, yeah. That's fair.
Phillip [01:37:38]:
So when I say that, I'm talking about more the environment. So, yes, to take full accountability and say, like, yes, like, I did put me here because, like, I allowed whatever behavior it was. But for the most part, if you're not in a very healthy environment.
Mike [01:37:50]:
Right.
Phillip [01:37:51]:
So if you grow up a certain.
Phillip [01:37:53]:
Way, people are maybe verbally abusive to.
Phillip [01:37:55]:
You, you or you, you know, work with people that don't make you feel safe, or they're constantly, like, being. Being challenged versus being judged is, like, very, very different. So, like, yeah, so to me, like, being able to, like, associate those things. So when I'm saying environment, I'm saying to, like, people who don't really want to see you grow, people who have a hat in the race who, like, are trying to hold you back versus that other person who, like, you guys, you know, don't really, you know, need to see me win or succeed, maybe professionally.
Mike [01:38:26]:
Okay.
Phillip [01:38:26]:
Yeah, because I'm working here. But let's just say as a person, like, you don't have to be vested in me. So to me, that shows me that I can trust you guys, where we're just talking honest. Like, we just want to see people, like, like, be them their best selves for sure.
Mike [01:38:39]:
Right?
Phillip [01:38:39]:
There's no transaction. There's nothing here. We're just talking. We're being honest. So, to me, when you have, like, your family there, you have, like, friends or people that you think are friends, and they're saying certain things in certain ways. I start to realize when you see a little success and then you hear the way that people talk, you're like, oh, where are they coming from? Do they have a hat in the race? Are they trying to hold me back? Because then they see I don't like this. Or maybe I make them feel a certain way about themselves because they're not secure. So what I'm saying is when you get really close to people like friends and family, I think it's interesting to see the dynamic.
Phillip [01:39:13]:
And I think it's rare to find.
Phillip [01:39:14]:
The group that is coming from a.
Phillip [01:39:17]:
Very pure place where there's no hat in the race and we're just trying to, like, help each other, like, be our best selves, essentially. So I think what I'm saying, environment, I'm saying, again, like the people that you grew up with that maybe you think you feel the closest with, but they're not. They're not serving.
Mike [01:39:34]:
Exactly.
Phillip [01:39:34]:
They're not serving you or contributing to your best self.
Eldar [01:39:36]:
And another topic. Yeah, we can talk about some other day, but it's extremely interesting or tricky to be able to introduce your neutral self to those individuals.
Phillip [01:39:44]:
Yeah, yeah, very.
Katherine [01:39:46]:
That's a whole nother layer and how.
Eldar [01:39:49]:
To do it properly in order. Right, right. To have those genuine conversations where you actually vulnerable, where they actually see the growth that she's talking about.
Phillip [01:39:57]:
I think that's the courage that you're talking about. That's where I see that coming. That's where I see that facing that.
Katherine [01:40:03]:
In some, some movies.
Phillip [01:40:04]:
Yeah, that's where I see that come for sure.
Phillip [01:40:06]:
So I think that's interesting. I think it's those environments that maybe didn't serve you right, like wherever they were, where you started. And you have to journey outside of those things. Whether it is therapy, whether it's a new group of friends, a new place to work, whatever it may be, inevitably you're going to be able to go back to those situations, see how, you know, somebody grew up, your family, your friends, your original group. And I definitely see courage being the main thing factor there, of being able to be your new true self, which has essentially been your truest self all along.
Mike [01:40:36]:
Correct, right, correct.
Eldar [01:40:38]:
What you did was you was actually fucking acting.
Phillip [01:40:40]:
I was acting with these people. So, so all these people. All these people, right. That you were around, then you have to start to go back and think, okay, I wasn't my true self. I was people pleasing. So the people that I thought were being mean to me, maybe we're actually trying to help me.
Eldar [01:40:55]:
That's right.
Phillip [01:40:55]:
Then you can go back and then see, like, who was actually real and who was actually trying to help me and the people that were enabling me, maybe they just like my fake self because they were fake and like, wow, why was I friends with these people in the first place.
Eldar [01:41:06]:
He sounds like a paid actor.
Katherine [01:41:07]:
Yeah. You tell someone the truth about something and they end up mad at you. You know, for example, they get mad at you for telling them, like, some truth, you know, like that. Right?
Mike [01:41:17]:
Oh, yeah.
Phillip [01:41:17]:
When you were younger, right. When you weren't ready to have the humility and, like, to strip your ego.
Mike [01:41:21]:
Right.
Phillip [01:41:22]:
So when you're young, somebody, maybe you're playing a game. Like maybe somebody takes a block from you or they take your toy. Like when you're younger.
Mike [01:41:28]:
You know what I mean?
Phillip [01:41:28]:
Like, could be a silly example, but, like, even playing a game, like, you're, like playing sports, you're competitive, and, like, something happens which is, you know, pretty maybe surface, but at the time, like, you take it very seriously. Maybe people don't talk for months or years and you don't be friends with that person, but maybe they were being competitive and maybe they just trying to get at your best self, you know, out of you. And you look at that, it was like a threat to whoever you were at that point.
Mike [01:41:49]:
But it's because.
Phillip [01:41:50]:
It's because you have very thin skin and you're not able to take the truth again. It's. It's going back to that point of. Of style and, you know, going to maybe certain groups, maybe going to therapy, gravitating towards certain groups. But I think at the core of what it was, we're both. We both were struggling and we both weren't our true selves at some level. So however we got to that point, we got there and then we realized we either needed therapy, we needed a different group of people, and we needed to basically examine ourselves. Which takes us back to that example.
Mike [01:42:23]:
Yeah. Okay.
Eldar [01:42:23]:
Re examine your whole.
Phillip [01:42:24]:
Re examine everything.
Eldar [01:42:26]:
Your whole thesis.
Phillip [01:42:27]:
The whole thesis.
Eldar [01:42:28]:
The whole thesis and admitting your wrong.
Katherine [01:42:30]:
It can take time. Maybe not for everyone. Some people. Oh, yeah, but that's why I can't take time, because you're literally re examining your. Everything, your whole life, your belief systems, everything. Everything that basically brought you to a point where you realize, like, I'm not in a good place. Oh, now you have to reassess, like, your entire.
Eldar [01:42:47]:
So is mental illness closely tied to being stupid for a very long period of time?
Mike [01:42:53]:
Yes. Hundred percent.
Katherine [01:42:53]:
Yes. For sure.
Mike [01:42:56]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [01:42:57]:
I also think that, like, flare ups of, like, ego and pride are in the moment indications of you not wanting to change.
Mike [01:43:04]:
Definitely.
Katherine [01:43:05]:
Yeah. And also, I would say, also not being honest with yourself. A lot of times I feel like sometimes we even there can even be like, a gut feeling about something, an instinct that you kind of know, like this is not right and you still kind of go with it.
Mike [01:43:19]:
That's right.
Katherine [01:43:20]:
You know, that's taking the stupid route. Like you knew and you knew. Yes, and you knew and you, I'll use you know what's um. At least I think women find themselves a lot of times with that gun instinct that they, that they ignore in relationships when they're with men and they get an instinct, they get like a feeling like, you know, something's not right here. You get along with it, you go along with it, you know, maybe you have your attachments, whatever your attachments to this person are, the idea of this person or the idea of a relationship and you ignore certain things and then it comes in, it bites you back in the ass, like later on, what's supposed to.
Eldar [01:43:53]:
Yeah, supposed to, because you're stupid, you.
Katherine [01:43:56]:
Know, that was you making a call.
Eldar [01:43:58]:
And it is Doctor Kristen K. It's right if you're stupid, if you can't deduce properly, right, what's actually going on, your body is even telling you like hey, this is not right. But you can't really examine or read your body because you're not even connected with your body properly. So what are you gonna do? You're just gonna go with your logical stupid self that you think that you're right, your ego is telling you whatever and then, you know, doctor K. Is.
Mike [01:44:21]:
A direct result of, yeah. Making, thinking that something's logical, but it's not. Yeah, it's a consequence of a logical.
Eldar [01:44:29]:
Yeah, no, but the thing is justify.
Katherine [01:44:32]:
We come up with justifications of why that is.
Eldar [01:44:35]:
But the problem here is, right, the problem here is, that's pretty funny. You know what, what comes to mind now to me, Mister Johnson from YP, right? There was one time, there was an incident, I'll tell you why I'm saying this. The problem is that we're saying that hey, you suffer from mental illness. Compassion, compassion. Take compassion? Compassion, compassion, yeah, you know what I mean? This is kind of like the pc world I guess, or what's conditioned now in the society that when you're suffering we need to give you, you know, help and stuff like that, you know what I mean? Mister Johnson comes to mind is because I don't remember which kid, right, but he was doing something stupid, something bad. And Mister Johnson was straightforward with him, like, yo, stop that right now. Maybe even cursed, you know what I mean? Like, yo, enough of this shit or something like that. Yeah, you know, and I looked at him like, oh shit, like, like why is he being like that? Yeah, like, because this kid is a little bit awful.
Mike [01:45:23]:
Whatever.
Eldar [01:45:24]:
You know what I mean? Maybe it was John Schuster or whoever. I don't remember who it was.
Mike [01:45:27]:
Okay.
Eldar [01:45:28]:
He goes, Eldar, he's playing stupid. He knows exactly. He knows exactly what's going on.
Mike [01:45:33]:
And I'm like, really? He's like, yeah.
Eldar [01:45:36]:
You know what I mean? He then made an example or whatever, showed me that small fucking sense, everything. But she's play stupid, right? Like a dog example.
Katherine [01:45:43]:
She's very smart.
Eldar [01:45:43]:
Very fucking smart. Play stupid. You know what I mean? But in this case, right? Like, I was, like, towards this kid. I was like, yo, he's off a little bit. You know what I mean?
Mike [01:45:53]:
Let's be compassionate.
Eldar [01:45:54]:
Be compassionate. You know? Attach compassion to him. You know, while he's doing wrong, he's doing something fucking wrong. And my mentor at the time said, yo, no, if you say, what do.
Mike [01:46:04]:
You think you saying? That's pretty sick.
Anatoliy [01:46:06]:
So then are you saying that you deduce that?
Mike [01:46:09]:
Right? Yeah.
Anatoliy [01:46:10]:
That be being honest and truthful is the ultimate compassion.
Eldar [01:46:16]:
You know what I'm saying? For 100%, one ticket.
Phillip [01:46:22]:
One ticket to pizza town, please.
Eldar [01:46:31]:
Which is exactly. Is required and needed in that moment.
Mike [01:46:34]:
That is justice.
Mike [01:46:35]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eldar [01:46:37]:
Education, correct. Education, correct. And I was. I was also baffled by the time, but that's also part of what made me me now.
Mike [01:46:44]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:46:44]:
You know what I'm saying? Because everything that we're deducing now, talking about this mental illness shit, you know what I mean? I'll go to. Is like, oh, really? Yeah, tell me about it.
Mike [01:46:53]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:46:54]:
No, what the fuck have you done?
Mike [01:46:56]:
Let's.
Eldar [01:46:56]:
Let's go. Let's go there. Right?
Mike [01:46:58]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:46:58]:
What have you done? Why are you feeling this way? What the fuck have you done? You know what I'm saying? You've been fucking lying to yourself, lying to others, flying under the fucking radar.
Mike [01:47:06]:
Mm hmm.
Eldar [01:47:07]:
Neglected yourself. And that's why you here.
Katherine [01:47:10]:
You know, I want to make, just, like, my own guess my whole conclusion. You guys tell me if I'm wrong, but I think that underlying all our errors are, you know, whatever our behaviors that might be incorrect or own stupidity sometimes I think under all that stuff, there is usually, aside from the ignorance, there's a lot of pain hiding under these things, of certain neglect, of certain.
Mike [01:47:38]:
Being stupid is painful.
Katherine [01:47:39]:
Things that have happened, happen to us.
Mike [01:47:41]:
Being stupid is painful.
Mike [01:47:42]:
Oh, yeah.
Mike [01:47:43]:
That's why the pain.
Katherine [01:47:44]:
There's a lot of stuff underneath. There are a lot of layers. For some people, it's anger, but under anger, anger is just a surface emotion. Under anger, there's hurt, there's pain, there's resentment, all these things. And I think that that's why, like, let's say if you go to therapy, there's a. There's an element of compassion, of, like, okay, I hear you. You need to, you know, people like to want to feel heard. You know, they need to feel understood so that they can open up and trust.
Katherine [01:48:07]:
And, you know, I feel like it's one of the stepping stones to opening up, allowing somebody, like, help you.
Phillip [01:48:13]:
So, you know.
Anatoliy [01:48:14]:
So I actually have what I'm gonna.
Mike [01:48:15]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [01:48:16]:
So it's a build trust. Yes, definitely is a technique. It's a technique.
Phillip [01:48:19]:
And without the trust trick you. Okay, so this is what I think this is where my brain. This is where my brain went. So. So, like, if you're. If you're. Yeah, but if you're. If you're raised a certain way.
Phillip [01:48:34]:
Right. Where, you know, a person sensitive, like, I was raised with somebody who's very, very sensitive, so I had to, like.
Phillip [01:48:40]:
Watch what I would say.
Eldar [01:48:41]:
So who's this? Mom or dad?
Phillip [01:48:43]:
My mom.
Mike [01:48:43]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:48:43]:
So they were very, very sensitive.
Mike [01:48:45]:
Right.
Phillip [01:48:45]:
So I have to watch what I would say. So, in a sense, I got, like, I got a definition kind of instilled in me, in a sense, where if somebody raises their voice to you or somebody comes at you a certain way, like, you feel a certain way about it and in a negative way, it's not good. So what I'm saying is that that guy who's gonna tell you the truth, right?
Mike [01:49:06]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:49:06]:
So think about if you have that instilled in you, where the definition of.
Phillip [01:49:11]:
Being really nice is somebody just saying.
Phillip [01:49:14]:
Something in a nice tone.
Mike [01:49:15]:
Wow.
Phillip [01:49:16]:
The information is irrelevant.
Eldar [01:49:17]:
Irrelevant.
Phillip [01:49:18]:
You understand this? So this person right now, based off of the association of, from a kid, which a lot of people have a lot of parents, mother, father, friends, whatever, in your group, you have an exchange, and they're saying, if you raise your voice to me, I'm gonna feel really, really bad about it, but it's irrelevant because the information is really important. So what are you actually saying is the most important thing? Do you have to redefine what, when people are saying feelings, you have to redefine what your feelings are and where you got them from.
Eldar [01:49:49]:
Thank you.
Phillip [01:49:50]:
Because, again, if you're. If you're wrong, if you're in this state.
Mike [01:49:54]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:49:54]:
You became a person who doesn't understand feelings the way that I understand them. So I'm trying to wake you the fuck up and say, wake the fuck up. You're like, no, no, no. I'm like, no, no, guess what? The way that you're reacting is wrong.
Mike [01:50:06]:
Yes.
Phillip [01:50:07]:
And I'm gonna teach you some other shit.
Eldar [01:50:08]:
That's right.
Phillip [01:50:10]:
So this is the new realm. If you don't like it, then you're not ready to learn yet, but you're wrong. So you have to re examine how you perceive feelings, where you got them from. Then I can teach you about feelings. Yeah, but that. That's where my mind went re examining. That's the re examiner for sure.
Katherine [01:50:26]:
And now, like, you all of your beliefs and realize, like, holy shit.
Eldar [01:50:30]:
And that's exactly.
Phillip [01:50:32]:
Everything's wrong.
Eldar [01:50:33]:
Individuals have no ability to read intent, right. Understand words, understand logical structures and stuff like that. So a lot of times that they focus on is the.
Phillip [01:50:42]:
Is the tone, which.
Phillip [01:50:44]:
Which in the grand scheme of things is a total joke.
Eldar [01:50:47]:
That's a joke.
Katherine [01:50:47]:
It is. I was raised that way. Like, my parents weren't. Like, there was really. They didn't never raise their. At least if they raised their voice, it wasn't.
Eldar [01:50:54]:
Look what happened.
Katherine [01:50:55]:
I was very, like, sensitive. I was just, you know, just a very sensitive person, you know, and I was really. I think. I think they baby me a lot, too.
Mike [01:51:05]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:51:06]:
I mean, I got people pleaser, right? Like, I mean, that was my. My punishment. My punishment. People pleaser.
Phillip [01:51:11]:
Yeah, right.
Katherine [01:51:12]:
Me too. You have to, you know, last year.
Eldar [01:51:15]:
She was telling me, babe, my friends are coming over. Can you just be a little bit nicer? You understand? Please don't be yourself. Your usual self. I love you, and I, you know, I accept you, but when my friends come over, please put on this mask.
Katherine [01:51:28]:
Right here, and it's gonna become zero when he's around.
Phillip [01:51:33]:
See, but I look at it like.
Phillip [01:51:34]:
This, too, like, where I would see my dad in certain regards, like, when I was younger, where, like, he'd be like, a little more like, you know, a little authoritative. Right, yeah, but disciplinarian and, like. But he was coming from a good place where, like, he was doing what he thought was right, which was, you know, hey, if he's doing something wrong, like, we're gonna let him know. And like, you know, maybe he does it in that way. But I looked at it when I was younger. When you have two people that have the opposite viewpoints on how to discipline.
Phillip [01:52:02]:
Holy.
Phillip [01:52:04]:
You are confused because you're like, wait, he's doing this, and she. But she's saying that that's wrong. But then she does this, and he's saying, that's wrong. So it's like, wait, do I have to define my own shit? But then I still have these definitions. So now I have one, three definition. So think about how difficult that is if you're a parent and you have two different viewpoints on how to discipline or how to treat your child. That kid is going to be the people pleaser. Is he going to be a troublemaker? He's going to be, like, very difficult.
Phillip [01:52:38]:
Very weird.
Eldar [01:52:38]:
Yeah, very weird.
Katherine [01:52:39]:
But it's. Imagine, you see, it's all of a byproduct.
Mike [01:52:41]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:52:42]:
We have a fucking juicer with our hands.
Phillip [01:52:45]:
I wore an apron during the day.
Mike [01:52:47]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:52:48]:
I should wear a special fucking helmet, too.
Anatoliy [01:52:52]:
I'm juicing.
Phillip [01:52:53]:
Don't bother me.
Eldar [01:52:54]:
Yes, it's my time.
Mike [01:52:57]:
Yeah, definitely.
Phillip [01:52:58]:
But we gotta make Mike's shirt too, though. Houston's my temple.
Eldar [01:53:01]:
Yes, Houston's my temple.
Phillip [01:53:02]:
I want it. I picture him going in there with the shrimp and just kind of like, blessing and, like, there's a secret room that we don't know about.
Katherine [01:53:09]:
Yes, it was.
Mike [01:53:11]:
It was a temple for a while. It was.
Phillip [01:53:14]:
Oh, yes, definitely. It's happening.
Eldar [01:53:17]:
If society deemed it or if society tackled or tried to tackle mental illness, going forward with starting by saying that the reason why you are. You're mentally ill is because you're stupid.
Anatoliy [01:53:31]:
Chaos at first.
Eldar [01:53:35]:
Mean, yeah, it'll weed people.
Mike [01:53:36]:
I just come back every time you say you're stupid. And if they say, fuck you, or, like, piss off. Okay, see you next time. Until they come and say, hey, why do you say this when you want to fucking really find out? Then the person is open to learning.
Phillip [01:53:51]:
But what? But what's gonna happen, though, is chaos will definitely be it.
Mike [01:53:55]:
But what? Why?
Eldar [01:53:56]:
Why.
Anatoliy [01:53:58]:
Then destruction and then salvation?
Mike [01:54:00]:
Because what?
Eldar [01:54:01]:
We're like that. Did you get that from a movie?
Mike [01:54:03]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:54:05]:
Because how we're currently constructed, right? Like, we're not. We're not built to be.
Eldar [01:54:09]:
Why would people be offended by that if it's the truth?
Mike [01:54:12]:
If it's the truth.
Anatoliy [01:54:13]:
Because people did not grow up to be able to take the truth.
Mike [01:54:16]:
Oh, you can't handle the truth.
Katherine [01:54:19]:
No, it's just being able to take.
Anatoliy [01:54:21]:
The truth is an acquired ability.
Katherine [01:54:23]:
It's just a very simple statement. It's more of an insult.
Eldar [01:54:28]:
You know, on Catherine's desk on the right side by the printer.
Mike [01:54:31]:
Oh, yeah.
Mike [01:54:32]:
Hand sanitizer.
Eldar [01:54:34]:
So you're saying that it's what?
Katherine [01:54:37]:
So I think that, you know, most people won't know even know how to.
Eldar [01:54:40]:
Like, just is that a good thing.
Mike [01:54:42]:
Or a bad thing?
Mike [01:54:44]:
That's good.
Katherine [01:54:44]:
Okay. That's why I said first chaos.
Eldar [01:54:48]:
Explain to me why chaos? Why chaos?
Mike [01:54:51]:
No, people just. Yeah, let's just say.
Eldar [01:54:55]:
Let's just say everybody, all the. Let's just say all the older doctors, doctor people, you know, therapists, the ones that write up the books, the DSMV and stuff like that. Definitions of everything, right? They come out right now, psychology today, and say, you know what? We figured it out.
Mike [01:55:08]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:55:08]:
I have a good example.
Phillip [01:55:10]:
I'd say it would be a similar.
Anatoliy [01:55:12]:
They will all be attacked, I say.
Phillip [01:55:13]:
From a societal standpoint, but they are.
Eldar [01:55:15]:
The ones with steam.
Phillip [01:55:16]:
There would be a similar reaction to the way of how Donald Trump came.
Phillip [01:55:20]:
On the scene and how he talked.
Phillip [01:55:22]:
Remember, about the split? Remember how people were split right down the middle of, like, oh, man, I'm so happy that he's speaking this way. And it's like, I can't believe that.
Eldar [01:55:30]:
He'S talking like that.
Phillip [01:55:31]:
To me, this.
Phillip [01:55:32]:
This would be the example of a thing or a phenomenon like mental illness. But, like, he would have been like, the. He's, like, the person or the vessel. So if he's mental illness, which you.
Phillip [01:55:43]:
Can make the argument maybe he is, but.
Eldar [01:55:45]:
Yeah, but walking mental.
Phillip [01:55:46]:
Walking mental. But if he was mental illness personified and, like, the form he was that.
Mike [01:55:51]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:55:51]:
The way that people reacted to him, how he came on the scene, how he spoke, and, like, how he just, like, had, like, no regard for women and, like, certain issues, and, like, we're like, I can't believe he's saying that. And other people like, no, it's the truth.
Mike [01:56:03]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:56:03]:
And then, like, you saw that, the way that people are talking and arguing.
Mike [01:56:06]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:56:07]:
You know, I would think that's how it would look.
Eldar [01:56:09]:
The same type of reaction.
Anatoliy [01:56:10]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:56:10]:
The people.
Mike [01:56:11]:
Sorry.
Mike [01:56:12]:
The people who were upset with him, they don't want to face the reality that they also believe that. And they lived in that. That lived within them. And the people who liked him were like, yo, I'm just like him. I'm a fucking piss big. And they were able to accept that. Like, they were like, yo, I'm just as much of a, you know, idiot as him.
Katherine [01:56:31]:
He was just a total. Not a total idiot.
Mike [01:56:34]:
Yeah. He was a good representation.
Anatoliy [01:56:37]:
I think people's first instinct when they're. When, when, like.
Eldar [01:56:41]:
But is this a direct attack on them or.
Mike [01:56:43]:
No.
Eldar [01:56:45]:
Yeah.
Katherine [01:56:46]:
I think people.
Eldar [01:56:46]:
Let's just say people are not those people who are not mentally ill. Let's just say, perceive this. Did they perceive this? Automatically as an attack on them.
Phillip [01:56:53]:
Yes, because they don't separate their disease from themselves. They are their disease and you are attacking them directly. So, yes, you, you are.
Eldar [01:57:02]:
Why? Because stupid is okay, but stupid is not.
Phillip [01:57:07]:
Yes, mentally illness is okay, but stupid is not.
Katherine [01:57:11]:
Technically it's an insult. It's like walking. Are we saying somebody calling them stupid? People are like, well, who are you? Like what?
Mike [01:57:17]:
Yeah, but you're coming to me for me to call you stupid. So it's acceptable.
Anatoliy [01:57:20]:
But it's also, a lot of it should be. Illnesses that you're talking about are also deemed, deemed are like, are not controllable.
Eldar [01:57:28]:
Well, that's, yeah, that's a different conversation. Okay. No, but it is though. Like, right?
Katherine [01:57:32]:
What did you say?
Eldar [01:57:33]:
Depression.
Anatoliy [01:57:33]:
A lot of these things are not like, a lot of people view them as not like fixable thing.
Eldar [01:57:39]:
They think it's physical.
Anatoliy [01:57:40]:
That's almost like you be like making fun of somebody that like, has something that they handicap.
Eldar [01:57:45]:
I'm not an honest, let's just say this. Like if somebody's born with clinical depression, I'm not sure if that's possible or there's been before I clinical, if somebody was born this way, the child was depressed. You know what, I'm not talking about those people, obviously. Yeah, this, you know, I'm talking about.
Phillip [01:58:01]:
Developed and self inflicted moves.
Mike [01:58:05]:
Yes.
Katherine [01:58:05]:
People that actually have like a chemical imbalance and have to medicate themselves.
Eldar [01:58:09]:
I'm not talking about that. I'm not arguing.
Mike [01:58:11]:
Yeah, yeah.
Anatoliy [01:58:12]:
I think that at all whatever force is working towards like opening something up for an individual or opening individual up, I think that like all the over years and time defense mechanisms built up are, are prepared to destroy like that, that thing.
Eldar [01:58:33]:
How about this?
Mike [01:58:34]:
Okay, fine. Then how about this?
Eldar [01:58:36]:
What if I attach at the end of it to say if you're mentally ill, you're stupid? But there is an answer.
Mike [01:58:44]:
That's nice. No, but what do you mean?
Anatoliy [01:58:48]:
Like issue.
Eldar [01:58:49]:
What, what I'm saying is that, okay, if you're mentally ill, you're stupid, but there's help.
Mike [01:58:56]:
I'm not sure stupid is definitely worse.
Anatoliy [01:58:58]:
Than being mentally ill.
Eldar [01:58:59]:
I have see, and that I'm having a problem with.
Anatoliy [01:59:05]:
I'm not saying, I'm not saying that I believe, I'm saying that people. Yeah, it is definitely like, it's definitely more.
Phillip [01:59:14]:
But I think if you really ask somebody, there's a lot of shame to say that you're mentally ill. So I think if you're really honest.
Anatoliy [01:59:21]:
With yourself, no, being mentally ill has a built in excuse in it.
Mike [01:59:24]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:59:25]:
Stupid doesn't. Yeah, he's right about society. It's a cop out. Yeah, it's a cop. I was born this way.
Mike [01:59:33]:
Right.
Eldar [01:59:33]:
Or it's genetic, or it's, you know, it's physical.
Phillip [01:59:36]:
Yeah, you can say.
Phillip [01:59:39]:
I'm saying yes. That's how you can perceive it. Maybe people will.
Phillip [01:59:43]:
But if we're breaking it down now.
Phillip [01:59:44]:
The way that we're talking in our circle, there's definitely a lot more there. If you're saying you're mentally, because you can be stupid in, like, a particular area or just in a particular thing, if you're mentally ill, that's going to be carried in every thought process that you have, in everything that you do, all your relationships, professional, everything that you do. So if you really examine it mentally, mental illness is definitely worse. But in society, yes, being stupid would probably carry more weight because mental illness can be a crutch, and you can look at it.
Eldar [02:00:15]:
So victim. So then, okay, so then the question is, well, being stupid soon be pc inacceptable. Are we going towards that hundred percent?
Phillip [02:00:26]:
I think in a sense it already.
Phillip [02:00:27]:
Is in how we are accepting the behaviors. We're just not calling it stupid.
Anatoliy [02:00:32]:
There's gonna be stupid clubs.
Mike [02:00:33]:
Like, hey, this is. Okay. Come on in.
Katherine [02:00:41]:
It is to, you know, like, I see it in memes all the time of people that are, you know, overworked or over stressed and how we cope with, like, binge drinking, binge eating, binge whatever. You know, people that have to, you know, get piss drunk just to come off the. The stress of a whole work week. So the perfect things like that are so normal. The movies alone.
Phillip [02:01:00]:
So think of the example that you just said, and it's actually perfect because what the movies and Hollywood used to do was take something like that, which was pretty much take, like, what's going on in society where, like, okay, people are overworked. They're going to work. They don't like their jobs. So we're gonna make a movie. Like, you know, they're gonna show, like, this guy drinking, going, like, either hangover, right? Like, they're gonna show these guys, like, a teacher, somebody else, and somebody else who, like, just has nothing going on. They just hate their life. Dentist. His wife is cheating on him, whatever, all this nonsense.
Phillip [02:01:29]:
They get to go to Vegas and have, like, this crazy life, and everybody is, like, resonating towards, like, that.
Phillip [02:01:33]:
Like, oh, yeah. Like, if I just got a weekend out in Vegas with my buddies, like.
Phillip [02:01:37]:
Now I aspire to just do that.
Phillip [02:01:38]:
You know, how many people probably went.
Phillip [02:01:40]:
To Vegas after that movie with their friends? You understand? So just think of the influence now, where I'm getting at with the example with Cap brought up.
Phillip [02:01:48]:
Think of, like, influence, society, culture.
Phillip [02:01:50]:
That was a movie, and it was.
Phillip [02:01:52]:
So unattainable to a lot of people.
Phillip [02:01:55]:
Because it was a Hollywood movie.
Phillip [02:01:56]:
And like, oh, like, that's an actor, blah, blah. This a movie, and it's expensive, whatever. Now you have eight regular, everyday people.
Mike [02:02:03]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:02:03]:
That have hundreds of thousands, millions of followers that are being paid by these brands. Then they'll tell you, by the masses, where you can just have it on your phone. You don't have to wait for the movie to come out every day. You can follow all these people and the disease or the sicknesses. You feel a lot closer to these people because they're everyday people. The actors were farther away.
Katherine [02:02:25]:
And so, to me, following this person for years, you almost feel like you know them, like you're a friend now they're selling you things and you're buying.
Phillip [02:02:32]:
So think about how much more dangerous it's is now, and think about how much more access you have and how much more it is. So if you're Hollywood now, you're like, okay, we lost a little to Netflix, and now Netflix mass producing, but now we got influencers. Now we're getting. We're gonna pay all you guys to help all of us to, like, like, basically push our message. So now it's almost harder to get away from these things. So, to me, if you're. If you're in this world and you're consuming, consuming, consuming without creating, and you have no humility.
Katherine [02:03:01]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:03:02]:
Stupid is very, very acceptable, is at.
Katherine [02:03:05]:
A peak right now.
Eldar [02:03:07]:
What are we talking?
Phillip [02:03:08]:
This is how it's gonna be delivered. So what I'm saying is, stupid is.
Phillip [02:03:10]:
Being delivered in examples like this, creators are getting paid to say, hey, I'm gonna show what a day looks like of me and my wife, just like, you know, coming home, drinking, and, like, fighting with each other, and we're gonna get rewarded because people are gonna comment and like it and think it's like a skit. Maybe there's some truth to it, but who cares? Because this brand's paying us, and we don't really care what we're doing anymore. It's nonsense. So it's a microcosm of what Hollywood was back in the day, which was pretty much taking what was wrong with society or what was, and then putting it out there for you to see good or bad. Now, a smart person can look at it and say, oh, this is just cinema. And when I come home and back to my regular life, now, regular life is lived on the computer. It's lived on Twitch, when people play games, it's lived on Instagram, it's lived on TikTok. People are living on their phones and computers.
Phillip [02:04:00]:
There's no separation anymore. We said it. People want to look, want girls to look like digital images. They don't want to look real anymore. They want no more interactions with real people. We want AI, we want robots.
Phillip [02:04:12]:
And it's, it's, to me, it's not.
Phillip [02:04:15]:
Crazy because it's how everything is set up right now.
Eldar [02:04:17]:
And like I said, you're saying that with our statement, we would directly insult thing.
Phillip [02:04:22]:
We are. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Anatoliy [02:04:26]:
I also think that like society or I'm not sure if it's like the species of mankind or what, but I feel like people are very driven by.
Mike [02:04:35]:
Things they can't have. Like that.
Anatoliy [02:04:37]:
That's just like a automatic thing right away from like being a young age as a kid.
Mike [02:04:42]:
Right?
Mike [02:04:42]:
Like what I probably to go on to what you're saying. When Phil was talking, what I thought about when he started giving the hangover reference and everybody going to Vegas, what I made me think about, it's a little bit, you know, the reason people got, like, what they saw there is generally, I think people are deprived and I think people are. Yeah, that's what he said.
Eldar [02:05:05]:
They're poor, born poor, everyone poor.
Mike [02:05:06]:
But they're deprived. And because they're searching for happiness or they're searching for certain things and let's say certain truths. But the problem is they're not looking for what the places are. So they're exhausted, they're fed up because they're not getting. And then they see these guys doing something, living out their fantasies, being happy.
Eldar [02:05:25]:
Rich, rich.
Mike [02:05:26]:
They're like, yo, what the?
Katherine [02:05:27]:
They're portraying a good time, but, but.
Mike [02:05:30]:
That'S because people are so deprived of actually happiness and, I don't know, having fun and, and, yeah. Like, like what? Like those guys in a relationships where the wife is cheating. Like a lot of people probably in, maybe not in cheating relations, but they're not happy relationships, you know, and they're like, yo, wait, like, let me go here for a weekend is gonna cure my shit? Because they never actually logically got to the point to build a happy life because they were trying to build a happy life through money, through, I don't know, success in the corporate world or through whatever other bullshit things that actually don't lead to that. So they're deprived because they wanted some kind of false reality created by themselves, by society, by their parents. And now when they see this little glimpse, they like, they just gravitating towards it.
Eldar [02:06:15]:
Aka they continue to be in a full developing, everybody wants some kind of a mental illness for themselves because the whole life is unexamined.
Mike [02:06:24]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:06:25]:
The conclusions that they made in their heads, the impressions that they made are unexamined.
Mike [02:06:29]:
Yes.
Mike [02:06:29]:
And ultimately, but ultimately stupid, but ultimately, subconsciously they're deprived and they don't even have any idea why. And that's essentially what it is, people gravitating towards being happy. Like, you know, I think the one of the major goals of life is to, you know, you know, be in pleasure, enjoy life, have fun and limit the pain, you know, but people just, they thought they were moving towards a happy life. This fucking white picket fence, fucking 2.5 kids or whatever the thing is, you know, and then they got there and they're like, yo, wait, why the fuck am I not happy?
Mike [02:07:04]:
You know?
Anatoliy [02:07:05]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:07:08]:
You know, whatever, wherever.
Katherine [02:07:12]:
You know, if your parents are not teaching you this and it's not taught in school, you know, we're already like, we have a bad start. You know, we have a bad start to this and you're not surrounded by people. They're gonna, not if you, so then, like, like what fighting chance do you have?
Eldar [02:07:26]:
The fine chance going forward, the new generation that's gonna pick up this podcast and start listening when they're young. Yeah, elders, I was gonna get the murder.
Mike [02:07:33]:
The parents got a, you know, before they started having the babies, you know, they got to think about the elderism so they don't pass on their nonsense in the next generation because that's what, that's exactly what's happening. Parents have no idea what the fuck is happening. Like, oh, we have to have kids. Oh, of course, if they have kids, let's have kids.
Katherine [02:07:51]:
It's just because it's, and then what.
Mike [02:07:52]:
Are we gonna teach this kids?
Eldar [02:07:53]:
What are we gonna share?
Mike [02:07:54]:
Oh, we're gonna share the things that we know which are fucking complete bullshit.
Katherine [02:07:57]:
That makes down on to you.
Mike [02:08:00]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [02:08:01]:
People have a very hard time distinguishing when it comes to happiness between, like, they either, like, never got sold on, not sure the exact reason why, but like, they have a very hard time distinguishing like fleeting happiness and like eternal happiness, you know, and I think that there's a heavy happy moments investment on the fleeting happiness because like, easy, it's easy, it's marketable and it's an endless chain.
Mike [02:08:29]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:08:30]:
System is rude than that.
Anatoliy [02:08:32]:
And the fast forever chase because like.
Eldar [02:08:35]:
Again, like it's always ending. It's like food, right?
Mike [02:08:40]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [02:08:41]:
You get hungry every, every 3 hours.
Mike [02:08:43]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:08:43]:
Some people say every half hour.
Mike [02:08:45]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [02:08:45]:
And like everybody has had probably a good.
Eldar [02:08:52]:
I didn't attack you, bro. This is hungry every hour.
Phillip [02:08:56]:
Detective purpose, he's a food chef.
Eldar [02:09:01]:
But you know, I'm saying I just try to make like an example. Like food, it fucking. Those fleeting moments, happy little moments are so exhaust. Like they exhaust themselves very call that happy.
Mike [02:09:12]:
We have to.
Phillip [02:09:13]:
I think we should define that's different.
Mike [02:09:14]:
Like.
Eldar [02:09:14]:
Yeah, but they understand what we're saying.
Phillip [02:09:16]:
Yeah, it's it that.
Eldar [02:09:17]:
Yeah, I agree with you.
Phillip [02:09:18]:
Not even happiness.
Eldar [02:09:19]:
It's not.
Phillip [02:09:19]:
Yeah, it's that straight.
Mike [02:09:20]:
You were quite happy.
Phillip [02:09:23]:
And it's gone after an hour.
Mike [02:09:26]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [02:09:27]:
And you were smiling when you were eating that bagel over there.
Phillip [02:09:29]:
That's gone in 15.
Mike [02:09:30]:
But it was only gone.
Anatoliy [02:09:31]:
Now you're gonna see more.
Mike [02:09:32]:
Not gone because you gone because of you.
Mike [02:09:37]:
So.
Mike [02:09:37]:
Yeah. You weren't able to show that moment because you had to become a wild animal.
Phillip [02:09:41]:
So if I kept werewolf. So if I kept eating bagels for 24 hours, you think I'd be happy for 24 hours?
Mike [02:09:47]:
No, but I think you can search how that happiness much longer if you able to extract from it.
Eldar [02:09:53]:
Ate a bagel every day, for example.
Mike [02:09:54]:
Eat a bagel every day.
Katherine [02:09:55]:
Keep the doctor away.
Anatoliy [02:09:58]:
I've been there.
Eldar [02:10:01]:
Don't go on Mike's train, man.
Mike [02:10:02]:
Look what happened.
Phillip [02:10:03]:
I got an untoasted bagel.
Mike [02:10:05]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:10:05]:
No cream cheese.
Mike [02:10:06]:
No, it was toasted.
Anatoliy [02:10:07]:
No, that's the definition of suffering.
Mike [02:10:15]:
It was toasted.
Anatoliy [02:10:17]:
Have a hot dog wrapped in lettuce.
Phillip [02:10:23]:
First of all, this place. This place is not known for hot dogs, but they should be incredible. I'm not, I don't. I know this game now.
Eldar [02:10:32]:
Yeah, I know this game.
Phillip [02:10:35]:
So you get the. Obviously you pay for the bacon, whatever you put cheese on. I don't. But after that you can get.
Phillip [02:10:40]:
You get free grilled mushrooms, free grilled onion, free grilled pepper, and then you can do your sauce, barbecue, honey mustard.
Phillip [02:10:46]:
I do mayonnaise. Are you going after this or no, I do mayonnaise.
Mike [02:10:50]:
Where is this?
Eldar [02:10:51]:
Like by your hood?
Phillip [02:10:52]:
Right by me.
Mike [02:10:52]:
Yeah, there's one right here, bro. Two minutes away.
Eldar [02:10:54]:
Oh, it's a chain.
Phillip [02:10:56]:
Oh, it's huge. It's in the whole world.
Eldar [02:10:58]:
I didn't know that.
Mike [02:10:58]:
What do you mean you never had.
Phillip [02:11:00]:
You never had a burger?
Eldar [02:11:04]:
Oh, okay, that I know. I didn't know they served that.
Mike [02:11:08]:
And he said they have good fries too.
Mike [02:11:10]:
I heard.
Phillip [02:11:10]:
Okay, if you like, like potato, like fries, like pure potato. I don't like those. I like when they're, like a little phony, like McDonald's ones.
Mike [02:11:19]:
Okay.
Phillip [02:11:20]:
But if you like potato fries, like, these are good. But I. I think to me, when you have a high dog, the. A lot of the sugar content or all the sugar contents in the bread. Bread. In the bread.
Phillip [02:11:33]:
If you eliminate that and you have.
Phillip [02:11:34]:
The lettuce because you have something against sugar.
Mike [02:11:38]:
I don't.
Anatoliy [02:11:38]:
I don't want things.
Mike [02:11:39]:
He does.
Mike [02:11:40]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:11:40]:
I don't want it.
Mike [02:11:41]:
He thinks some funky stuff.
Eldar [02:11:43]:
He doesn't want it, but he craves it.
Mike [02:11:44]:
But he has 30 high. Choose a day. He's the prop.
Mike [02:11:48]:
Why?
Eldar [02:11:48]:
You bought.
Mike [02:11:49]:
Oh, my God.
Anatoliy [02:11:50]:
I thought he left already.
Phillip [02:11:51]:
Yeah, we determined they're only like four.
Eldar [02:11:53]:
Four, three take with the spoon with.
Anatoliy [02:11:57]:
4 grams of sugar.
Mike [02:12:00]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:12:00]:
If you know how much that actually is.
Mike [02:12:02]:
Yeah. Sky.
Phillip [02:12:03]:
The fucking king's ransom of.
Mike [02:12:06]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [02:12:07]:
See, you see, you're doing what you usually do to me. Karma, bitch. Are you pointing. You ordered it.
Anatoliy [02:12:13]:
You know, I was like, a little lash out there.
Phillip [02:12:17]:
Yeah, he came at me first. You started it.
Eldar [02:12:20]:
Know, he pointed his finger. You started it. All right, guys, so what's the conclusion? What's the verdict? What's the. What are you guys saying? You guys saying, the world is not ready for us to go out there and say, you know what? If you mentally ill, you're stupid. You guys say, no, we have to.
Mike [02:12:35]:
Go out with whether they're ready or not. We have to.
Eldar [02:12:37]:
But then you're gonna be.
Mike [02:12:38]:
You want to.
Eldar [02:12:39]:
Do you want to do.
Mike [02:12:40]:
What's the name?
Eldar [02:12:40]:
Uh, JC did.
Mike [02:12:43]:
I'm down to get my JC. You. For a long time.
Eldar [02:12:47]:
Yeah, I'm not for this.
Mike [02:12:50]:
You have to dig along, you know, cat.
Mike [02:12:58]:
Whoa.
Katherine [02:12:59]:
I just heard JC and I'm like.
Phillip [02:13:01]:
Okay, all right, JC.
Eldar [02:13:03]:
Justin. Simple Lake. He's a simple lake.
Mike [02:13:10]:
Yes.
Mike [02:13:11]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:13:11]:
I mean, if this is true, you have to. You have to.
Eldar [02:13:16]:
Do we agree that, like, mental illness, if it starts the way it does, based on what we discussed today, it's actually rooted in stupidity. With stupidity, which is rooted in our arrogance, ignorance, ego, pride.
Mike [02:13:31]:
Well, how can you kick something out so strong without something stronger?
Eldar [02:13:35]:
Oh, I think the great can bring.
Mike [02:13:37]:
A pistol to a fucking.
Eldar [02:13:38]:
The greatest gunfire. Guys looking for Mike is right, though.
Phillip [02:13:42]:
Guys looking for a plate of ribs right now.
Anatoliy [02:13:48]:
That's like. That's a sitcom.
Eldar [02:13:51]:
Is that a life sentence?
Anatoliy [02:13:54]:
That's real bad.
Eldar [02:13:55]:
But is it a life sentence passed down from previous life?
Mike [02:13:58]:
I don't know.
Anatoliy [02:13:59]:
It's like if it's real bad.
Mike [02:14:03]:
Yeah. Wow.
Eldar [02:14:05]:
Mike is saying that, uh, in order to fix something that as big as mental illness, you gotta come with a bazooka. And this is this bazooka.
Mike [02:14:15]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:14:16]:
If you start walking around and hitting people over the head with a fucking bazooka. Yeah, I think so.
Mike [02:14:20]:
Light.
Phillip [02:14:21]:
Light beats.
Mike [02:14:21]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:14:21]:
Even it makes me think about that. Light, about that initial. Initial, uh, last thing we had when we're talking about the Tony situation.
Mike [02:14:29]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:14:30]:
You know, like that does not call for compassion or being friendly. Friendly or buddy buddy with.
Eldar [02:14:34]:
Wow, that's a very.
Mike [02:14:36]:
Because that's actually what we concluded in the end. In the beginning, I was trying to be, you know, friendly, nice guy, like all he's going through. But the truth is.
Eldar [02:14:43]:
No, this is what we were talking.
Phillip [02:14:44]:
About with the example. With the girl. Yeah, with the girl. Last week we said, right. Or this week, actually we did. On Wednesday we said going through an.
Phillip [02:14:53]:
Example and saying, you know what you don't want, or presenting a self where.
Phillip [02:15:01]:
You'Re taking them out to dinner and you're doing all these things, but essentially.
Phillip [02:15:03]:
You just want to sleep with them.
Mike [02:15:04]:
Right?
Phillip [02:15:04]:
Like this is the extreme example.
Phillip [02:15:06]:
What if you just went up to.
Phillip [02:15:07]:
Them and said, I just want to sleep with you?
Mike [02:15:09]:
Right.
Phillip [02:15:09]:
That's the truth. So what we're saying to Tony or whoever else, like, we're coming at you with like, the truth, we're saying, like.
Phillip [02:15:16]:
We'Re gonna tell you exactly what it is.
Phillip [02:15:18]:
You might not like it, but the pattern that you've been going through is the other one where you're taking us to dinner, you're doing all this thing, you're putting on the happy face and you're being this guy, right? Just, you wanna fuck us, right?
Phillip [02:15:29]:
Like that's what you want.
Eldar [02:15:30]:
Call for what it is.
Phillip [02:15:31]:
So call it what it is and.
Phillip [02:15:32]:
We'Ll respect you and then you'll get.
Phillip [02:15:34]:
Out of it what you actually want to get out of it, which is actually just want to fuck.
Mike [02:15:38]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Phillip [02:15:39]:
Right. Like that's what we're saying.
Eldar [02:15:40]:
That's right.
Phillip [02:15:41]:
So we just were saying, cut all the bullshit out. We're going to give you what you want. You're just going to get it a lot quicker. So just put your ego to the side.
Phillip [02:15:49]:
Can you do that?
Phillip [02:15:49]:
If you can't, your life's going to be very difficult for a long time. Is that what we're saying? Is that what we're saying, yeah, 100%.
Eldar [02:16:00]:
But, like, you got.
Mike [02:16:01]:
You got to leave with the truth.
Mike [02:16:02]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:16:02]:
Yeah. You calling it for what it is.
Mike [02:16:05]:
Yeah, I like it.
Eldar [02:16:06]:
Holy shit. The reason why we keep saying that, it's like you taking, like, you taking all the stuff that we already been saying and you packaging in a different way and you see in your own way. And it's resident.
Katherine [02:16:18]:
He communicates very well.
Eldar [02:16:21]:
Yeah, no, but he's talking shit. Good.
Phillip [02:16:24]:
Suck it. Suck it.
Mike [02:16:27]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:16:27]:
You hear that audience?
Mike [02:16:28]:
Yes.
Katherine [02:16:29]:
Fucks.
Mike [02:16:29]:
Yeah. Take that.
Katherine [02:16:33]:
Clear. You know, understand it for sure.
Phillip [02:16:38]:
Total nuts is.
Phillip [02:16:39]:
Could be.
Mike [02:16:40]:
It only makes sense. How could you not leave with the truth?
Eldar [02:16:42]:
Yeah, see, the thing is, man, the thing is, maybe it's easier for us to say, you know, because we've been through it. We have our own stupidity in our heads and stuff like that. And we know. And now we aware. There's layout of the town. Yeah, but the truth of the matter is that person was mentally ill, bro. They're fucking ill, bro.
Mike [02:16:59]:
Yeah, but the thing is, you. You've been doing this for a very long time.
Mike [02:17:04]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:17:04]:
In the form of trolling.
Eldar [02:17:05]:
Yeah, no, I.
Mike [02:17:06]:
That's the same. That's delivering the truth.
Eldar [02:17:08]:
100%. 100%.
Phillip [02:17:10]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:17:13]:
The guy was throwing farts at people in school.
Phillip [02:17:17]:
Throwing farts.
Phillip [02:17:18]:
Hadouken style.
Eldar [02:17:19]:
That is friends.
Phillip [02:17:20]:
He's mooning everybody.
Phillip [02:17:24]:
He's the teacher. He's our teacher.
Mike [02:17:26]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:17:27]:
He's a fucking fart whisperer.
Mike [02:17:28]:
Fart.
Anatoliy [02:17:29]:
Lord Farter.
Eldar [02:17:32]:
Holy shit.
Mike [02:17:34]:
What are you saying? Not an individual basis.
Eldar [02:17:36]:
I've been doing it on individual basis because, you know, it's. It's like, it's. It's appropriate, and it's. I'm able to do it. And it's like, you can evaluate the situation. You do it.
Mike [02:17:46]:
Yeah, you can. The thing is, you're doing it after you already have a history, criminal record on the person. That's appropriate.
Eldar [02:17:52]:
There's a lot of things that go into it. There's, you know, but you can pretty.
Mike [02:17:55]:
Much give a pass most.
Mike [02:17:57]:
But.
Eldar [02:17:57]:
But I'm saying. No, no, I'm saying my question was whether or not you can come out with this information publicly and into the world. I think I should.
Phillip [02:18:06]:
You have to talk about it in different ways.
Phillip [02:18:08]:
So, for instance, instead of saying the.
Phillip [02:18:09]:
Truth, you would have to say, you know, you want to beat them, you.
Eldar [02:18:13]:
Want to package it.
Phillip [02:18:16]:
No, I'm saying to make.
Phillip [02:18:17]:
To make the truth acceptable and not just say the truth, you'd have to say, like, you'd have to effectively communicate. Like, do you see like this. You'd have to say it in different ways and package it in certain ways where, like, wow, these guys are effective communicators. Or like, they say something very profound. Like, once you say the truth. Like, those are, like, I think that.
Anatoliy [02:18:37]:
Like, it's too much if you. If you say the truth but then bring it back to yourself. Like, people, can I get angry at you? Like, I think it's an interesting.
Phillip [02:18:49]:
Worry.
Anatoliy [02:18:49]:
So am I.
Eldar [02:18:50]:
So am I. Yeah.
Anatoliy [02:18:52]:
Like, yes.
Phillip [02:18:55]:
In my opinion.
Mike [02:18:56]:
Like, yeah. Yeah.
Phillip [02:18:57]:
Then you say something.
Anatoliy [02:19:05]:
Now because I said that I'm a piece of shit as well.
Mike [02:19:11]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:19:13]:
You know, I see, yeah, like, I'm a piss pig.
Phillip [02:19:15]:
Like, okay. Like, no problem. Like, it's not a big deal. I like to get peed on.
Eldar [02:19:19]:
That's on record.
Phillip [02:19:24]:
You know what? I think they should.
Phillip [02:19:26]:
You know, if we have our first.
Phillip [02:19:27]:
Sponsor and it's not like the piss pig. Like sanitarium, like fucking world tour, whatever they call themselves, they should, like, yeah.
Eldar [02:19:34]:
They should fuck with us.
Phillip [02:19:35]:
Yeah, we talk about them a lot. We say we don't. I don't think you guys realize how many times we say piss pig.
Mike [02:19:41]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:19:41]:
Like, we're glorifying these people.
Mike [02:19:48]:
Well, he just had a new leaf this week.
Phillip [02:19:51]:
Well, we didn't start to record our face.
Phillip [02:19:52]:
We didn't start to record our face yet.
Phillip [02:19:54]:
So nobody really knows what the hell's going on.
Eldar [02:19:56]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [02:19:57]:
Next is gonna be Phillips.
Mike [02:20:00]:
Oh.
Phillip [02:20:00]:
When I regurgitate the food.
Eldar [02:20:01]:
Yeah, we need to develop a little more courage.
Mike [02:20:04]:
Yeah, I think I have. With more therapy.
Eldar [02:20:08]:
You get in there.
Mike [02:20:09]:
I want.
Phillip [02:20:10]:
I want. I want to have a new name and I want to do the mask.
Mike [02:20:13]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [02:20:14]:
See, he wants to do like, what are those the musicians that did mouse over dead?
Phillip [02:20:23]:
Like that.
Phillip [02:20:24]:
Like when dead mouse like that.
Eldar [02:20:25]:
Only with. No, there's two guys that did Tron soundtrack only wear masks all the time. Def punk.
Mike [02:20:32]:
Yeah. Yes.
Eldar [02:20:33]:
Yeah, def punk.
Mike [02:20:35]:
Or you want to mask it up.
Phillip [02:20:36]:
Certain name mask, build up the audience and then after a while we reveal our true selves for a hundred billion, trillion dollars.
Katherine [02:20:44]:
Or you like gorillas and you never.
Phillip [02:20:46]:
You know, the band never show you 1 million.
Katherine [02:20:49]:
They don't know.
Phillip [02:20:50]:
I think there's always a lot of like an interest in wanting to see what they look like, but then it really becomes about. It's just about our information.
Katherine [02:20:58]:
Exactly. You have to.
Phillip [02:20:59]:
What's that?
Eldar [02:20:59]:
The picture is basic marketing.
Mike [02:21:02]:
Right.
Anatoliy [02:21:02]:
That's also why, like, when you're talking to prospects of the phone, you tell them like, hey, this probably not a fit for you.
Eldar [02:21:07]:
They keep asking more like, please, I want pricing.
Anatoliy [02:21:09]:
Yeah, they still want to ask more questions because people want what they can't have.
Mike [02:21:13]:
There you go.
Anatoliy [02:21:13]:
That's like basic psychology.
Phillip [02:21:15]:
So, so we're gonna give them what they want, what they can't have. We'll all be individual names. Like, I'll be like a Filbert. Like all. They'll be like certain type of nuts. Yeah, well, I'll pick an actual nut.
Mike [02:21:29]:
A nut name?
Katherine [02:21:31]:
Like an actual character.
Phillip [02:21:33]:
No, I'm saying a real type of nut.
Mike [02:21:35]:
Wait, it's actual nut Filbert?
Mike [02:21:38]:
Oh, yeah.
Phillip [02:21:39]:
Isn't a Filbert a nut or.
Eldar [02:21:40]:
No, it's not.
Phillip [02:21:42]:
Okay, maybe I'm not. I thought, I thought maybe.
Eldar [02:21:44]:
Listen, we're creating shit here. Oh, fucking creating names of nuts. We're creating names and nuts right now.
Mike [02:21:49]:
Okay.
Phillip [02:21:49]:
Yeah, but yeah, I will take actual nuts or whatever, a name that's closely resembled to ours. And we can all be that.
Mike [02:21:54]:
That thing your will be filled with. Phil Burt.
Phillip [02:21:58]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:21:59]:
Okay, that's interesting.
Phillip [02:22:01]:
So we got hazelnut, we got almond, we got cashew, we got macadamia, brazilian nut macadamia.
Eldar [02:22:06]:
What about a total nut?
Phillip [02:22:07]:
Total nut.
Anatoliy [02:22:08]:
Yeah, totally nut.
Phillip [02:22:10]:
Totally nut. There you go. But yeah, we all have certain type and then we all be eating nuts. Obviously. We get sponsored by nuts eventually.
Eldar [02:22:17]:
Yeah, and we gotta get sponsored by.
Mike [02:22:19]:
Those New York City guys. Nuts for you.
Eldar [02:22:22]:
Easy.
Mike [02:22:23]:
A little food card, guys.
Phillip [02:22:24]:
Done and done.
Eldar [02:22:27]:
All right, so what's your conclusion, bro? Listen, let me read it again to you guys. What we had on our board, I think.
Phillip [02:22:34]:
Totally. If your microphone was made out of chocolate, would you eat it even if it wasn't? You look like you want to eat something right now.
Eldar [02:22:42]:
Guys, the original question was mental illness is a result of an unexamined, prolonged flow states.
Mike [02:22:51]:
Right?
Eldar [02:22:52]:
Totally. Also said world almost promotes an unexamined state. Being more pc. Respecting or promoting people's views versus preserving the truth. Preserving the truth.
Mike [02:23:03]:
I know.
Eldar [02:23:04]:
And confrontation generally is a bad thing in America.
Mike [02:23:07]:
Right.
Katherine [02:23:08]:
So you can't open up sometimes to be like too honest.
Mike [02:23:11]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:23:12]:
For a game argument for a good conversation.
Mike [02:23:15]:
Right.
Eldar [02:23:17]:
And no fresh squeezed juice is gonna cure this or prevent.
Mike [02:23:21]:
Ya know.
Anatoliy [02:23:21]:
I honestly believe that it's very slow, probably won't be in our lifetimes, like in a mass scale. But I do think the world is going this way. This way with more. More honesty, more upfront and like really?
Mike [02:23:35]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:23:36]:
So you have, you have hope?
Anatoliy [02:23:37]:
Yeah, no, I do think that it's extremely slowly, on a mass scale, going that, going, going that kind of way? No, no, very slowly. Very slowly. And I don't think it's gonna be in our lifetime where it's on a mass scale.
Mike [02:23:52]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [02:23:52]:
But I think, again, like, through mental health and this and that and, like, you know, just all different kinds of things, I definitely think that there will be a slow progression towards just a more upfront, like, on this thing. And I think that there's different avenues of that. Some of them are through comedy.
Mike [02:24:12]:
Right?
Eldar [02:24:13]:
100%.
Mike [02:24:13]:
Right.
Anatoliy [02:24:14]:
Like, comedy is great. Yeah, comedy, like, you go there like.
Eldar [02:24:17]:
Fucked up shit, but it's funny.
Mike [02:24:19]:
I like it.
Anatoliy [02:24:19]:
Right, like that, right? Like, yeah, yeah, that and then just, like.
Mike [02:24:24]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [02:24:24]:
Just the evolution of people. Like, once people continue to get insight into themselves, once they have more time to be able to do that, it's inevitable for them to begin to develop, like, self reflection skills and yet thicker skin. And, like, it's inevitable for that to happen through the promotion of curiosity and through social truth.
Mike [02:24:50]:
Yeah, you have that.
Eldar [02:24:53]:
Mike, what do you have, man? You know, I think, how do we come about with this question in the first place?
Phillip [02:25:00]:
You guys were walking.
Eldar [02:25:01]:
We're walking, right? And then me and my kind of conversation.
Mike [02:25:03]:
Mm hmm.
Mike [02:25:05]:
Yeah, I remember.
Eldar [02:25:08]:
Yeah, but what you got, you guys.
Phillip [02:25:10]:
Walked and you came back and you're talking about mental illness.
Mike [02:25:13]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mike [02:25:16]:
I have nothing. But I wanted to say a few minutes earlier that based on this conversation, compassion might be the next thing that's dead.
Eldar [02:25:26]:
Wow. Yoga is dead. Discipline.
Phillip [02:25:31]:
Discipline is very dead.
Eldar [02:25:33]:
Compassion is dead. Meditation is dead.
Mike [02:25:37]:
No, no.
Eldar [02:25:38]:
Yeah, but, yeah, but, like.
Mike [02:25:43]:
Most people don't know how to actually probably use compassion or meditation or yoga or discipline. That's the problem.
Eldar [02:25:48]:
That's all you guys are doing, is leading fucking people. Fucking confusion.
Mike [02:25:52]:
Yes. Yeah.
Phillip [02:25:54]:
Compassion, as we know, it's all good.
Mike [02:25:55]:
Tools, but the way that most majority of people use it, that shit, like, oh, no, I understand.
Anatoliy [02:26:01]:
You're being nice to a bunch of people that then life's gonna.
Mike [02:26:04]:
That's people.
Phillip [02:26:05]:
Pleaser 101.
Mike [02:26:06]:
That's. Please.
Eldar [02:26:06]:
Yeah, that's people.
Mike [02:26:08]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:26:09]:
There's a time in a place for compassion, but it's a rare. I think.
Phillip [02:26:13]:
Here's the real. The real conversation is, hey, I'm fucked up. You're fucked up, too. Like, talking.
Mike [02:26:19]:
Let's talk.
Phillip [02:26:19]:
But instead, this is what they're saying is, oh, hey, how you doing? Like, I'm doing really great.
Phillip [02:26:23]:
Like, no, dude, like, you're fucking done, bro.
Phillip [02:26:26]:
Yeah, you shouldn't be out of the house.
Mike [02:26:28]:
Yes.
Phillip [02:26:28]:
Lock yourself inside. Call fucking Eldar right now.
Mike [02:26:33]:
Five.
Phillip [02:26:33]:
Five five sticky note, optional. $0.75. Fucking do it. Do the sticky note. Call to action message. You need to call Eldar right now.
Mike [02:26:41]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:26:41]:
And you need to lock yourself inside.
Eldar [02:26:44]:
Don't come outside until you fucking allow.
Phillip [02:26:46]:
Put on your rope, take a shower, and just relax. Try if you can, because you probably can't.
Eldar [02:26:50]:
You probably.
Phillip [02:26:51]:
You're a total nut.
Eldar [02:26:52]:
It's all over you. Holy shit.
Phillip [02:26:54]:
No compassion.
Anatoliy [02:26:55]:
Do you think Machine Gun Kelly will allow the Rob Devil soundtrack to be our podcast song or. No?
Eldar [02:27:01]:
Wow, that's. I don't remember the lyrics now, but I really like that song.
Anatoliy [02:27:04]:
Oh, wait.
Mike [02:27:05]:
Here.
Phillip [02:27:05]:
So, a Filbert or the Filbert nut or the fruit of a hazel tree, often called hazelnuts.
Eldar [02:27:10]:
Talk about it.
Mike [02:27:11]:
That's right. That's what.
Phillip [02:27:13]:
He's my final word.
Anatoliy [02:27:14]:
He kept listening shit about Emmett.
Eldar [02:27:17]:
Let's talk about it. What's wrong with you?
Mike [02:27:19]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:27:19]:
It's an intense, nutty flavor crunch accentuated by roasting. And compare nicely with rich chocolate. So intense, nutty flavor. So a Filbert's a real nut. It's a hazelnut.
Mike [02:27:29]:
That's crazy. I never knew that.
Mike [02:27:30]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Phillip [02:27:33]:
So that's definitely my name. And then we can all pick obviously appropriate ones.
Mike [02:27:37]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:27:38]:
It might be dead right now in this society, in today's world, Mike, but does it mean they can't be resurrected?
Mike [02:27:42]:
No, definitely not.
Phillip [02:27:44]:
The essence of it is pure and good.
Mike [02:27:46]:
Yes.
Phillip [02:27:47]:
So we're not saying it's bad. We're not idiots.
Eldar [02:27:48]:
No, no, we're not stupid.
Mike [02:27:50]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Mike [02:27:53]:
Just the way that you're using it.
Phillip [02:27:54]:
Is the way that people.
Phillip [02:27:55]:
The way that people are using yoga. The way that people.
Eldar [02:27:57]:
It's behind this.
Phillip [02:27:58]:
They're crutch.
Anatoliy [02:27:59]:
There's hiding behind it.
Mike [02:28:00]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:28:01]:
I live a yoga lifestyle. Very relaxed. I'm very cool.
Mike [02:28:04]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:28:05]:
What are you selling? Yeah, I was trying to write a.
Katherine [02:28:11]:
Bio for myself on a friend app, and I was like, what do I say? I can't possibly say, like, I enjoy yoga. I cannot be that person.
Phillip [02:28:21]:
No, I can't.
Mike [02:28:21]:
No more.
Katherine [02:28:22]:
Even though I do enjoy it, I can't be that person that, you know, I just. I just. I can't.
Mike [02:28:28]:
There's.
Phillip [02:28:28]:
There's negative things attached to it if.
Phillip [02:28:30]:
You'Re being honest with yourself, because it's like a whole new club of people just basically saying, like, I'm. I'm. I'm trying to relax, essentially.
Mike [02:28:41]:
Right.
Phillip [02:28:42]:
But as we're debunking these kind of things, which I'm, you know, basically, uh, being aware of, too, is, you know, what are you actually doing? Are you just prolonging the inevitable? Like, what are you actually doing? Pure yoga? Are you purely meditating? What are you doing?
Mike [02:28:58]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [02:28:59]:
What's the matter with you?
Mike [02:29:00]:
What?
Phillip [02:29:00]:
Like, are you doing?
Phillip [02:29:01]:
Are you asking yourself what you're doing.
Katherine [02:29:02]:
Or you just slap yourself?
Phillip [02:29:04]:
Yeah, exactly.
Phillip [02:29:06]:
You're slapping yourself around. So, like, Atolly was asking me, like, the questions about, like, you know, present and stuff like that. That was making me think about my meditation and what I was doing.
Eldar [02:29:15]:
Your practice?
Phillip [02:29:15]:
Yeah, that was making me think about my practice and kind of reopening and re examining, saying, like, oh, like, yeah, maybe, like I'm pushing. I'm pushing the thoughts away that are maybe causing me to maybe want to have to meditate. But why don't I address these things and then my meditation can probably be a true meditation.
Mike [02:29:31]:
That's right.
Eldar [02:29:32]:
Or meditation might not even be.
Phillip [02:29:34]:
Or meditation might be dead.
Mike [02:29:35]:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.
Mike [02:29:37]:
Listen, I didn't say it. I did say the first time, but not. Not the second time. Phil seems to agree.
Phillip [02:29:44]:
I do like to sit in the bath and relax, though. So whatever that's called.
Mike [02:29:49]:
I do.
Phillip [02:29:49]:
Yeah, that's not on the table for cancer.
Mike [02:29:53]:
I wasn't planning on canceling that one.
Eldar [02:29:56]:
He just got into it. Baby, final thoughts. Give us some. Because, listen, we're offended. We offended your crowd.
Katherine [02:30:10]:
My crown.
Eldar [02:30:11]:
My God.
Katherine [02:30:12]:
So you know what?
Eldar [02:30:14]:
The people under the stairs.
Mike [02:30:15]:
Yeah, the ones that are hiding.
Katherine [02:30:17]:
Comparison to you for sure. I'm PC.
Mike [02:30:19]:
But you like to fuck shit up once in a while.
Eldar [02:30:25]:
Yeah, she does. The more she comes out, the more fun she's gonna have. Are you gonna see, like, at the restaurant? This is why we have. Because of Catherine. This is a direct reflection. I'm bet.
Phillip [02:30:46]:
See, I benefit. Yes. It's great.
Mike [02:30:48]:
She's bad.
Eldar [02:30:49]:
She throws me the middle fingers all day in the house. You would never see this around here. No, you see, this is then her. She's a direct correlation.
Katherine [02:30:58]:
But you know that you. You birth that.
Phillip [02:31:01]:
Like, you don't like it allowed you to.
Katherine [02:31:04]:
I did it to be really funny because I was like, he's gonna get shocked if I do that. And he was shocked and I liked it, so I kept on doing. And every time I do it, I get, like, the right reaction from him. It still got to.
Eldar [02:31:16]:
Yeah, I like it.
Katherine [02:31:18]:
Okay. What was I trying to say? Um, yeah, listen, I agree with Tolia.
Eldar [02:31:21]:
We're talking shit.
Katherine [02:31:22]:
In my final words. I think that even though I. I think the PC ness of society right now is keeping us from being honest and realistic about our mental health and who we are. But I do think that there is a lot more awareness surrounding therapy and mental health. So it sounds like two oxymorons, but I. You know, I have hope.
Mike [02:31:45]:
Okay.
Eldar [02:31:46]:
So is mental illness as a result of being stupid for a long periods of time?
Katherine [02:31:52]:
Yes. You know, of course I wouldn't say it that way, but yes.
Mike [02:31:55]:
What?
Anatoliy [02:31:55]:
Why not?
Katherine [02:31:56]:
Yeah, because there's so much more to it than just saying, like, oh, I've just.
Eldar [02:32:00]:
And no person with a big ego would say that, you know?
Katherine [02:32:04]:
Sure.
Eldar [02:32:06]:
That was a setup. Don't worry.
Katherine [02:32:09]:
So. Yeah, that's all I have to say about that. I said a lot on this episode.
Eldar [02:32:13]:
I mean, you should, because you have to defend the point.
Mike [02:32:16]:
It's good.
Katherine [02:32:16]:
Well, I relate to it a lot.
Mike [02:32:18]:
I'm.
Eldar [02:32:18]:
Yeah, I know.
Katherine [02:32:20]:
Personal mental illness issues, I guess. Not issues, but.
Mike [02:32:23]:
Yeah, Phil, whatever.
Eldar [02:32:24]:
What you got? Final thoughts. Final thoughts. The gig is up, right?
Phillip [02:32:29]:
Yeah, I mean, let's keep it, like, super simple. The gigs up, everything that you think that you.
Mike [02:32:34]:
That you.
Phillip [02:32:34]:
That you're doing. Yeah, it's all a joke.
Anatoliy [02:32:37]:
Oh, people are pigs.
Mike [02:32:39]:
Are pigs.
Anatoliy [02:32:39]:
And lettuce blankets.
Phillip [02:32:41]:
Exactly, exactly.
Mike [02:32:43]:
Yeah, I like it.
Phillip [02:32:44]:
Everybody's wrapping themselves. It's a big joke. Is anybody examining? Are you guys examining anything? Is anybody truly examining?
Katherine [02:32:56]:
You know, examining can become, like, really depressing.
Anatoliy [02:33:04]:
Like in, like, whispers.
Katherine [02:33:08]:
See, I'm down with that. Cuz it's funny.
Mike [02:33:12]:
Started.
Eldar [02:33:12]:
Okay.
Mike [02:33:14]:
Yeah, but. Yeah.
Phillip [02:33:14]:
Everything that you think that you're doing.
Phillip [02:33:16]:
Unless you're examining it, like, there's a.
Phillip [02:33:20]:
Very, very, very high chance.
Mike [02:33:26]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:33:27]:
Yes, yes. I'm putting it in. I'll put it in.
Phillip [02:33:30]:
There's a high chance that whatever you're doing is basically in to take you away from doing the things that matter and getting closer to.
Phillip [02:33:38]:
To your purpose.
Phillip [02:33:39]:
I think that's what we're essentially talking about.
Eldar [02:33:43]:
Yeah, based on my calculations.
Mike [02:33:44]:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I agree. I agree.
Eldar [02:33:47]:
And at the end of the day, I mean, that's why we have what we have. We have reason, we have this ability to think, and this is gonna set us free.
Phillip [02:33:54]:
I believe that shutting your thought two days ago, I thought. I. I believe that shutting off your thought was the right way to go about it, but I didn't even know what I was doing. Now I realize all the stuff that we're doing, we're talking about rational thought, and we're actually bringing those thoughts to the surface. We're examining each of those bubbles. That's what we're essentially doing. So we were doing it, but I didn't know what we were doing yet. And then we talked about what we were actually doing.
Phillip [02:34:22]:
And then I got it differently.
Mike [02:34:24]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:34:25]:
So every day, like, I had like, these, kind of like these. And I realized, like, oh, shit.
Eldar [02:34:29]:
The only reason why you have. Because you're inviting them to. Into your life by being open.
Mike [02:34:34]:
Yes.
Eldar [02:34:34]:
By being vulnerable, by being humble enough to be able to. For him to be. To speak freely in those moments. Because I believe when we do that, everybody can be the teacher in that moment.
Mike [02:34:44]:
Yes.
Eldar [02:34:44]:
You know what I'm saying? And everybody can be the student as well.
Mike [02:34:48]:
Right.
Eldar [02:34:49]:
Because at any given point, you know.
Mike [02:34:51]:
We can be up or down, you know?
Eldar [02:34:53]:
So if you allow for that transaction to happen, I think you can benefit. I'm glad that you're already seeing a fucking benefit. That's awesome. Very much crazy that you're concluding this so openly, right? It's very good. He is being well compensated. You're right to say certain things. You're right.
Phillip [02:35:08]:
That is true.
Eldar [02:35:11]:
So this is paid advertising by Philip. All right, guys, thank you again. This was great. Yes.
71. Redefining Mental Health Understanding Through Conversation
May 26, 2023•3 hr 35 min•Ep. 71
Episode description
How does our upbringing and societal pressures influence our mental health and ability to confront or discuss it openly?
In this compelling episode of Dennis Rox, hosts Eldar and Mike delve into the complex intersections of mental illness, family dynamics, and societal attitudes. Katherine, Anatoliy, and Phillip join the conversation, bringing personal insights and professional perspectives. They explore how upbringing and parental influences shape our handling of mental health and the societal stigma that still shadows honest discussions about mental illness. The dialogue brings to light how embracing vulnerability and understanding can lead to more effective therapy and personal growth.
As the conversation unfolds, the importance of honesty within therapy and confronting personal truths becomes a focal point. They critically discuss the role of empathy and the potential pitfalls of excessive political correctness in addressing mental health issues. Through anecdotes and analog insights, the group debates the delicate balance between empathizing with individuals facing mental health challenges and encouraging them to critically examine their own behaviors and beliefs. This episode not only sheds light on mental health struggles but also challenges the listeners to reflect on their attitudes and approaches towards healing and understanding mental illness.
Transcript
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